Chicago Justice - General Discussion

[Raja]

51 minutes ago, Shades of Red said:

I've only ever watched the crossover Law and Orders for the Chicago shows, so didn't have any clue how many characters were the same or were connected.  I'm okay with that, and having said that, I can't be the only one who gets annoyed with these crossover shows?  I understand why tonight was done like this, but I don't need anymore of these this season.

It was wonderful seeing Philip Winchester back on my tv.  I miss him and Sullivan Stapleton's partnership/bromance so much from their Strike Back days.  I wouldn't have a problem if Sully, but not his entire show, ever showed up on here.

I'll keep watching.

Most, make that all of the Law & Order crossovers with Chicago PD so far has been the latest Special Victims Unit cast. Here on Justice we went back to  the beginning of the franchise in 1990 to say we have New York's Executive ADA Stone's son. A couple of the defense lawyers he and his two replacements  over almost 20 years spared with. And now Mr Robinette,  Stone's assistant turned defense attorney in New York being seen in a promo there are more nods to Law & Order as the Chicago series belongs to the extended " Law & Order Tommyverse" with Homicide Life On The Street, In Plain Sight, St Elsewhere and New York Undercover.

Those of us getting a Trail By Jury (2005) vibe see the detective from the preceeding series joining the DA and now State's Attorney's office as an investigator. But that show only lasted 13 episodes

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Shades of Red said:

I've only ever watched the crossover Law and Orders for the Chicago shows, so didn't have any clue how many characters were the same or were connected.  I'm okay with that, and having said that, I can't be the only one who gets annoyed with these crossover shows?  I understand why tonight was done like this, but I don't need anymore of these this season.

I like when they do the crossovers, but then again, I watch Fire and PD too.  I just don't watch Med.  Crossovers are a bit like a movie, I guess, where they can take more time to tell a story than just (less than) one hour.

[Sandman]

It seemed to me that with this crossover, the episodes ran essentially continuously -- that is, with no real break in the action between the end of Fire and the beginning of PD, and the transition between PD and Justice (what is it about this title that makes me want to call it "Chicago Justice!" ? Well, actually, "Chicago Justice! ::chung-chunng::,", complete with L&O sound effect?).

Edited March 2, 2017 by Sandman

[Elliebab]

14 hours ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Although I liked this okay and the writing was good, I have to say I was a little underwhelmed. The show could have been called Law & Order. reset in NYC, and just restart a new season of that. what with the young earnest assistant, etc., etc. I don't know why there are cops on this show--it seems a big overlap of PD's work. They should probably focus on the Justice and let the police presence fade away (Nagel and Dawson can transfer to Chicago CTA or Sanitation or something), which would really differentiate it from the L&O style and look, and mesh better with the three other Chicago's (for instance, we see only the Fire paramedics on Med, we don't have other paramedics or ambulance units working from there). Peter Stone should adopt some of Ben Stone's seriousness and mannerisms (I adored Ben Stone's character on L&O) if he's supposed to be his son (even though we never knew anything about Ben Stone's personal life on L&O, including the existence of a son). And come on with the defense attorney conning them into playing right into his hands--bleah imo. That was just unnecessarily gimmicky considering the plot line was so strong.

But I'll watch no matter what.

Nah, even the judge herself said allowing Peter to put the defendant on the stand would help with the defendant's appeal--he'll be out in no time.

They are not "cops". They are State Attorney Investigators who work for Stone. That's why they are there.

[alias1]

I only watched because of Phillip Winchester and I really liked it.  I've never seen any of the other "Chicago" shows and have no desire to.  I hope they don't feel the need to keep bringing in these characters from the other shows.

[MakeMeLaugh]

4 hours ago, Elliebab said:

They are not "cops". They are State Attorney Investigators who work for Stone. That's why they are there.

Still overlapping. ETA: the Cook County website says:

Quote

The Investigations Bureau consists of more than 120 sworn officers who provide investigative and logistical support to Assistant State’s Attorneys in their preparation and presentation of cases. Investigators also complement and supplement local law enforcement efforts by providing them with investigative assistance, expertise and technical resources.

So in this series of shows, there is going to be tons of overlap with PD in "complementing and assisting." There's already overlap in that Voight sent Dawson's name over there. It was okay on Law&Order because there wasn't a complementary PD show. Personally I hope the focus in Justice will be on the justice and not on the investigating of the same kind of major crimes that PD is covering. 

Edited March 2, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[FnkyChkn34]

4 hours ago, Sandman said:

It seemed to me that with this crossover, the episodes ran essentially continuously -- that is, with no real break in the action ...

They definitely did.  I DVRed them all, and missed several seconds in the transitions between the three episodes.  They also ran the credits for all of them at the end of Justice.

[MakeMeLaugh]

14 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

... The shows format reminds me of the short lived L&O Trial By Jury, with the focus all on the DA's and their investigators, I'm surprised no one else has made that comparison....

That's why it was short-lived--nobody watched it so we can barely remember it! :)

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

That's why it was short-lived--nobody watched it so we can barely remember it! :)

I only remember it because I kept thinking, "Hey, Lillith Crane is an ADA now!" (Bebe Neuwirth was the lead.)

[Sandman]

7 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

 I DVRed them all, and missed several seconds in the transitions between the three episodes.  

That was my experience, too. My DVR didn't treat the shows as one mega-episode. I missed the consolidated credits at the end. I did notice the title card showed all four segments of the Chicago now-Quartet, including Med (at least I think I saw Med there).

Edited March 3, 2017 by Sandman

[Waterston Fan]

I liked this episode and it was cool. I really followed Law & Order when SW came on and really liked him. It would be so cool if they had him come on the show. I liked they mentioned the DA who ate 1 hot dog a day and I just thought of McCoy. (But it could have been Stone as well, not sure. )

[Waterston Fan]

Would be awesome if they got McCoy to come on there, not sure as what though but he would be retired for sure. 

[Shades of Red]

Thanks for all the info about Law and Order and all the characters from it.  I watch two of the other three Chicagos.  I stopped watching Chicago Fire very early on and haven't gone back except for the crossover episodes.  I do watch Chicago Med as well as P.D., so that does help a bit with knowing who the characters are etc.  when they do crossover. 

I watched this live last night and have to say it took me a bit to figure out it was going to be continuous.  I did like that part of it.  It was approximately 10 after the top of the second hour when I realize the time and wondered what was going on.  I expected it when it came to the third hour.

[Elliebab]

Well hopefully Antonio will get interesting cases that develop his character so he wouldn't be such a "bore".

[Xeliou66]

I would like to see McCoy drop in as a guest, maybe he knows the Cook County DA from his time as Manhattan DA, I would love to see Sam Waterston make a guest appearance either on here or on SVU. 

[WendyCR72]

32 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I would like to see McCoy drop in as a guest, maybe he knows the Cook County DA from his time as Manhattan DA, I would love to see Sam Waterston make a guest appearance either on here or on SVU. 

I don't know what the status of that show is, if it is done or not, but currently, Sam Waterston is a cast member on Netflix's Grace and Frankie.

[MissLucas]

Decent courtroom drama - but I have to admit the main reason for me to tune in was Joelle Carter and she only got a couple of throwaway lines. Since it was a crossover (almost) pilot this might change in further episodes. But I'm not optimistic this show will ever allow her to rise to Ava Crowder levels of awesome.

[Waterston Fan]

44 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I don't know what the status of that show is, if it is done or not, but currently, Sam Waterston is a cast member on Netflix's Grace and Frankie.

How long has that show been on for? Last I heard he was on another show, something about the press, can't remember but there was so much cursing I just couldn't really watch it. 

[Sandman]

Well, I guess Evil Joshua Lyman knows now never to diss Ben Stone in his son's hearing! )I find the silver-haired version of Bradley Whitford kind of creepy.)

[WendyCR72]

2 hours ago, Waterston Fan said:

How long has that show been on for? Last I heard he was on another show, something about the press, can't remember but there was so much cursing I just couldn't really watch it. 

Oh, right. I think that was The Newsroom. I think that is done. Just looked up Grace and Frankie and see Season 3 is coming soon, so I guess Sam Waterston still has a job. LOL! As for how long it has been going? Since 2015. He plays the ex-husband of Lily Tomlin's Frankie, who falls in love with the ex-husband of Jane Fonda's Grace, played by Martin Sheen. Apparently, the guys divorced the wives and are getting married themselves, or did? But all 4 still interact, and chaos ensues.  :-)

[MakeMeLaugh]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Decent courtroom drama - but I have to admit the main reason for me to tune in was Joelle Carter and she only got a couple of throwaway lines. Since it was a crossover (almost) pilot this might change in further episodes. But I'm not optimistic this show will ever allow her to rise to Ava Crowder levels of awesome.

Ava! I bow to her. Joelle Carter could carry a whole series.

Edited March 3, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[LittleIggy]

Don't forget Linus Roache's Mike Cutter. Hot!

[LittleIggy]

I can't see Joelle Carter without thinking of Ava Crowder! They need Walter Goggins to guest star!

On a shallow note: Philip Winchester is a hottie! ;-)

[WendyCR72]

30 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Don't forget Linus Roache's Mike Cutter. Hot!

I'll be honest: I barely even glanced at the Mothership once Lennie left. Once he left/Jerry Orbach sadly died, the bloom was off the rose, for me. But I've seen the character in a clip or two and like the irony of Cutter giving McCoy the same headaches he used to give Schiff, Lewin, and Branch.

[WendyCR72]

I know, actors, TV, blah, blah. But New Stone barely looked anything like Old Stone, IMO. Oh well, he got Daddy's passion for law, I guess.  :-P

[Xeliou66]

I thought that the new Stone did look somewhat like Ben Stone, and he definitely has a similar passion for the law and being by the book. However it bugs me how Ben Stone never referenced having a son on the mothership, he only talked about a daughter. Also I would love to know how they will keep explaining having NYC lawyers from the mothership show up in Chicago, such as with Robinette. I can buy certain lawyers having licenses in multiple states, but what was Danielle Melnick doing as a judge in Illinois after practicing law in New York all those years? I wish they had explained that, I felt like her appearance was wasted, they never even referred to her by name. 

I think this show can be quite good, but I hope it is able to branch away from the other Chicago shows which are pure soap opera crap. I don't like how intertwined this show seems to be with PD, and I hope we don't get many crossover appearances, and I also hope the show steers clear of soap opera crap that the Chicago franchise is known for. Right now, this feels much more like an L&O show than a Chicago show, but if it becomes soapy it will lose viewers such as me who are L&O fans but don't like the other Chicago shows. 

[paigow]

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

But I'm not optimistic this show will ever allow her to rise to Ava Crowder levels of awesome.

"Antonio, I know Raylan Givens..you're no Raylan Givens" 

[Raja]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'll be honest: I barely even glanced at the Mothership once Lennie left. Once he left/Jerry Orbach sadly died, the bloom was off the rose, for me. But I've seen the character in a clip or two and like the irony of Cutter giving McCoy the same headaches he used to give Schiff, Lewin, and Branch.

Its off topic here but McCoy was always tied up with election concerns by the time Cutter replaced him as Executive Assistant DA. In my opinion McCoy was in the way more than the other three DA's had been. After the mothership was ended Cutter turned up on SVU  a few times

Spoiler

as he had been demoted to their bureau chief

[NYCFree]

I think that they are going for the same type of vibe that Better Call Saul did with Breaking Bad. The hints and references to Breaking Bad, that are on Better Call Saul, enhance the show for BB fans, but don't detract from the show for those that are new to the work.

Having the DA be Stone's son, and the judge be Danielle Melnick meant absolutely nothing to those who didn't watch L&O, those references just gave a little extra pleasure to the old fans.

[Xeliou66]

Except Better Call Saul is a prequel to Breaking Bad, while this is more like a sequel if anything. And while Saul was a regular on Breaking Bad before he got the spinoff, no regular L&O characters here, just a few guest appearances. So not exactly an accurate comparison. I bet most viewers of Chicago Justice had no idea about the connection to L&O, because there are a lot of fans of the Chicago shows who never watched L&O and probably have no idea who Ben Stone is or that this show is connected to L&O. While everyone knows Better Call Saul is a spinoff of Breaking Bad. 

I'm hoping this show can succeed and I liked what I saw in the pilot, but I hope it can break free from PD and the other Chicago shows and not be so intertwined, I get having a big crossover pilot but it appears the next episode involves a PD character as well and that isn't good. This show needs to find its own footing and not have a ton of PD characters on, right now this show feels more like an L&O type show than a Chicago show and I hope it stays that way 

[Raja]

It is really a bad tonal shift. On PD,  it played like Vic Mackey and The Shield with the Chief of Police  basically saying "do anything for this case, I got your back", or was that still in the Fire episode? But then the States Attorney warns the bad Sergeant that we will be watching and his female investigator knowing that anything coming from that police squad is likely tainted by unconstitutional behavior. Coming next week.

Spoiler

I do wonder if the second episode will end with the two shows, PD and Justice promising to try to stay out of each other's way in the future.

I hope it plays more real than the Fire to PD personal relationships.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I loved L&O the mothership but sometimes McCoy talked so much I started shouting "shut up" at the TV. I don't want him to take up time as a guest star on Justice that could be used by Joelle Carter.

[WendyCR72]

I just realized I must have watched later L&O after all, since I do recall Jeremy Sisto and Anthony Anderson. They were, what, S18 through 20? Didn't watch it all, but enough to know them. Lupo and Bernard. I guess Cutter didn't have much affect on my memory of him.  :-P  I have often heard this was a sort of renaissance for the show, but I didn't think Sisto/Anderson gelled as partners much. Not like Briscoe/Logan and Briscoe/Green.

To tie it back to Chicago Justice, I'm rather surprised Dick Wolf tied one of the characters to Ben Stone at all since Michael Moriarty exited L&O somewhat acrimoniously. I guess time heals all wounds. And if Dick Wolf and Chris Noth buried the hatchet enough to send Logan to CI, I guess anything is possible.

[Kel Varnsen]

This was a pretty big meh for me, I thought the case kind of dragged, and after all the work of the previous two shows it was all about the big twist at the end of a guy obsessed with a girl. Plus I was surprised they didn't use the cell phone evidence showing the guy walking out from PD.

And I was really really shocked that the whole big super crossover didn't close out with a final scene taking place at Molly's.

[zxy556575]

Huh. Mock if you must, but I watched and didn't know until just now reading here that it was a crossover episode. I figured the run time was off, or I missed the first few minutes, or this was some peak TV version of throwing the audience into the ocean and letting them learn to swim on their own. Because, man, there was zero buildup or backstory.

Even so, I thought it was entertaining. Not enough to watch any of the other Chicago series or Law & Order, mind.

[LittleIggy]

I adore Sam Waterston both as an actor and as a person. He wrote an awesome op-ed piece for the Washington Post a few weeks ago about, well, let's call him " he who shall not be named." 

McCoy was way better than Stone.

[paigow]

13 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

To tie it back to Chicago Justice, I'm rather surprised Dick Wolf tied one of the characters to Ben Stone at all since Michael Moriarty exited L&O somewhat acrimoniously. I guess time heals all wounds. And if Dick Wolf and Chris Noth buried the hatchet enough to send Logan to CI, I guess anything is possible.

Shamballa had more history / backstory with Stone Sr than with McCoy so bringing her back to face off against Stone Jr is likely motivated more by not breaking canon than any real life hatchet burying... 

[LittleGreyCells]

Not too bad for a first episode. Couldn't figure out why they were holding the trial in the Field Museum. We do have actual courthouses here in Chicago.

[LittleIggy]

Until I read this forum, I made no connection between Moriarity's character and Winchester. The handsome Winchester is nothing like dough-faced Moriarity.

[MadyGirl1987]

9 hours ago, LittleGreyCells said:

Not too bad for a first episode. Couldn't figure out why they were holding the trial in the Field Museum. We do have actual courthouses here in Chicago.

Thank you! I was wondering if anyone else noticed that! I was actually there the first weekend of November with a friend and have pics on my phone of us right where the press was standing.

[paigow]

12 hours ago, LittleGreyCells said:

Couldn't figure out why they were holding the trial in the Field Museum.

The cast & crew had a CityPASS?? 

[Sake614]

I liked it. I didn't notice that Melnick was the judge. I of course know that she was a defense attorney on L&O, just didn't read her name plate and no one called her by name. But that's fun.

re the Ben Stone connection, I guess I'm slow because when I first heard the last name I actually rolled my eyes thinking Wolf ran out of ideas lol! Even when Bradley Whitford referenced Adam"s father, it didn't hit me. It was only about midway through the trial that I realized 'oooh this is Ben Stone's kid!' And then I smiled snd thought his daddy must be very proud.

but yeah, I thought it was pretty solid. I liked that ADam is a fast learner and realized he was being played, then outmaneuvered the defense play. Obviously the kid was emotionally disturbed but I'm not convinced he was molested. Kudos to the actor though. He did a great job first looking cocky and then angry/out of control. 

Serious question: do kids (Does anyone?) really accept friend requests from people they don't know??? I was stunned when that girl said she has over 1000 FB friends and doesn't know them all. I don't have anywhere near that many but I can say for certain that I know every single one of them.

[Bill C.]

I'm still undecided about this after watching this episode twice (or rather once somewhat closely, though I still missed that the judge was Danielle friggin' Melnick--how the hell did that happen, L&O-verse?!?), but it surprisingly felt a lot like the Mothership in places.  A somewhat glossier and shinier Mothership, but still. Philip Winchester came off a little more McCoy-esque than Stone-esque, IMO, if decidedly more square-jawed than either.  And I couldn't help thinking that the perp du jour looked a little too much like a young Donald Trump to be coincidental, but I can't figure out why that would have been.  That said, I'm at least curious to see if it can maintain its L&O-ness...so game on, show.

[shapeshifter]

I caught this last night as a rerun on over-the-air TV, so I couldn't "rewind" any scenes without a lot of internetting. Nevertheless, when I dosed off for a bit 3/4 of the way through, It didn't seem like I missed anything crucial. Maybe that's just a symptom of pilot-itis?

So Ben Stone's son's first name is Adam? Is he supposed to be named after Adam Schiff?

On March 3, 2017 at 1:31 AM, Xeliou66 said:

. . . I think this show can be quite good, but I hope it is able to branch away from the other Chicago shows which are pure soap opera crap. I don't like how intertwined this show seems to be with PD, and I hope we don't get many crossover appearances, and I also hope the show steers clear of soap opera crap that the Chicago franchise is known for. Right now, this feels much more like an L&O show than a Chicago show, but if it becomes soapy it will lose viewers such as me who are L&O fans but don't like the other Chicago shows. 

Exactly how I feel about it!

The actor who played the perp kind of outshined the new regulars.

[Sara2009]

On March 2, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Sandman said:

Well, I guess Evil Joshua Lyman knows now never to diss Ben Stone in his son's hearing! )I find the silver-haired version of Bradley Whitford kind of creepy.)

The creepiness probably works well for his role in " Get Out."

[kassygreene]

I believe the character's name is Peter Stone.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah the main characters name is Peter Stone, he was called Peter a few times. Don't know where the poster got "Adam" from. It is interesting that they made this character Ben Stone's son because Stone never mentioned a son, but I like the tie to the L&O mothership and the show definitely has the feel of the L&O franchise which the other Chicago shows don't. Can't wait to see Paul Robinette appear. 

[Crs97]

The Peter/Ben Stone connection is intriguing enough to make me hang around, but it needs to get better quickly.  I cannot stand ridiculous lines like "Win the case and it could make your career.  Lose it and you could end mine."  So clunky; it induced much eye-rolling at this house.

[Bill C.]

Dare I say that in some ways this felt even more like a Mothership episode than the apparently unofficial premiere episode did, and that's not even including Robinette showing up (complete with defense attorney surprise motion flyby--drink!).  The thing that really worked against it, IMHO, is that it directly crossed over with CPD; not that that was bad per se, because it wasn't.  It's not the first time it's done it, either, but it still feels weird to play that card this soon twice in a newborn show (especially considering how things almost turned out for Atwater).

OTOH, after last week I was wondering if Ben Stone was still alive and this answered that question surprisingly gracefully on top of its embracing its L&O-ness even harder than last week, so...halfsies?

[paigow]

If Voight is going to be in every episode...call this Chicago: IO Intelligence & Order