S02.E03: Static

[catray]

Quote

Holden and Miller butt heads about how the raid was handled. 

[sjohnson]

Attacking Eros should be the last step on the march to general war. Earth government is of course worried about being bombarded by asteroids. Seeing one turned into a demonstration weapon is an implicit ultimatum. Their choice is total surrender or mass death. And the rulers never surrender if the peons can still fight, barring a deal for themselves (which isn't on the table.) 

Therefore, what the humane characters really need is to know is, who's responsible. That's why Miller's murder of Dresden is so awful, even if Holden is forced by the script to pose it solely as a moral issue. (I tend to resent bad scripting designed to make the designated heroes look better, but even more so when they're assholes like Miller and Amos.) Even worse, the show has forgotten that Miller is the one who should have had the common sense to ask, how did Julie Mao know about the protomolecule at all? The answer, by contacts with her father and his corporation, gives them a powerful lead on who's behind it all. But Even in its own term, consider: Miller seems to think there can be some sort of retribution for the victims on Eros. One for a hundred thousand? Retribution is almost never equal (one reason it's the favorite position of moral imbeciles?) but this is pathetically inadequate. Does anyone besides Miller know who Julie's father is? 

[pastafarian]

The book gives more detail to Dresden and his interaction with Johnson and Holden.  Miller knew that Dresden was about to get away with everything and be allowed to continue if not stopped by him.  Once the dirty deal was made, the whole assault and all those who died in it would have been made pointless.  Miller had that one opportunity to remove one of those responsible for the horror he had witnessed on Eros, and he took it.  In the book, Dresden is more of a smarmy politically connected operative than the scientist he's portrayed as in the series.   I also think the actor portraying him was miscast.

[Danny Franks]

This was a tense episode. Feels like the calm between storms. A lot of preparing and worrying, a lot of nervous energy. And I guess the next storm is whatever the protomolecule is "counting down" to.

Not sure why any viewer would be at all surprised or shocked at Miller killing Dresden, or question why he did it. To me, the reasons were self evident: revenge for Julie, the girl Miller is obsessed with. To prevent Fred Johnson from being tempted into protecting Dresden, thus ensuring Julie would never get what Miller sees as justice. And as a way of simplifying matters, to make them easy for Miller to get his head around. Instead of letting the situation grow into a complicated issue of inter-faction rivalry and the threat of alien interaction with humanity, he wanted it boiled down to a simple case of crime and punishment. And besides all that, Miller already told Holden, and the viewers, that he was going to do kill Dresden when they found him.

Of course, it was unacceptable to Holden, because he's an idealist who believes in things that Miller may never have believed in. Law, due process, being the better person.

Loved Amos' insight into Holden, and seeing that he fills that 'good person' template that Amos seems to be incredibly loyal to. He can sacrifice his own judgement and trust that Holden will make the right moral choices for him, and the rest of the crew. And his insight into Miller. Didn't take him long to figure out that Miller is a self-destructive fool who doesn't know when to just stop.

But Holden can be an insufferable prick, when he thinks he's right and someone else is wrong. And anyone who'd turn down ordering lots of room service with Naomi because he's in a snit really needs a kick up the arse.

I like Diogo. He's obnoxiously friendly and puppyish, but it's fun seeing him annoy Miller. And I like Fred's second as well.  She seems like a mix of a couple of characters from the books.

I remember being so disturbed by the idea of the scientists having their empathy suppressed/removed, because being a complete sociopath was the only way they could continue doing their work. They got that point across well here.

Another thing I remember from reading Leviathan Wakes, I think at this point I was sure that Miller was going to join the Mormons on the Nauvoo (which looks amazing, by the way. Fantastic design) and fly off into the deep unknown. Same here, I imagine, for non-book readers.

Not really into the Martian marines bickering, but it's entirely understandable that they're all on edge and amped up, both anticipating war and being frustrated that they're currently unable to do anything. Bobbie isn't very well defined yet, but it's early days. Think something's gonna happen on Ganymede....

I enjoy the political guessing games going on, which are obviously reminiscent of the Cold War. 'What will Mars do? What will they do if we prevent them from doing it? What if we're wrong and they weren't planning anything in the first place?' But the Avasarala scenes do slow things down, when I feel like they should be speeding up.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Danny Franks

[johntfs]

I'm wondering if Amos had his empathy removed somehow and wants it back.  It would explain how he was able to connect with the scientist psychopath to psychopath.  On another level it explains why he's connected to Naomi.  She's his moral North Star, the one who can make the value judgements he no longer trusts himself to make.

[sjohnson]

Holden being too upset for party time with Naomi proves how sincere (aka contemptible, by the shades of grey/ambiguous/cliche standards) he is. He's not in a snit though, which sounds like he was ticked off by Miller disobeying him (implicitly.) Holden was upset because Miller made sure the march to war continues as everyone blames the wrong parties for all the mystery assaults. Killing off the only witness who could lead there really did leave the deaths in the assault force without any meaning. Miller of course saw no meaning in the lives, much less their deaths, so that's not an issue for him. Anybody who knew much of anything about the protomolecule could realize what the voices meant, just like Miller, who isn't the sharpest. So the deaths meant nothing even in terms of warning about the Eros threat.

[thuganomics85]

Aww, Miller's already got himself booted and no longer an honorary member of Crew Racni!  Holden just could accept him killing Dresden in cold blood, and possibly dooming a potential cure, in order to avenge Julie.  But considering how invested he was in her case, I guess it isn't surprising that Miller went there.  I'm sad he might not be interacting with the rest of the gang (especially Amos), but hanging out with Diego and getting involved with the Mormons (thanks to recap for reminding me about that bit) could be interesting.

I did like it led to Amos of all people making progress with the surviving scientist, by being able to understand how to talk to someone who has no empathy.  Even if it involved a comparison to talking to pedophiles, which was creepy as expected (Holden's face pretty much said it all.)  Amos continues to be one of the most surprising and interesting characters on this show.  Every time I think I figure him out, he does something that changes my mind.

Not surprised Alex is still feeling guilt over the container getting destroyed.  I just hope it does eat him up to the point that it causes him to harm himself.

The Mars crew mainly just bickered and postured, but it's interesting to see all the bigotry that is coming out, with how the former Earther is treated compared to the rest.  Also some classism going on with him mocking the non-Bobbie woman for having rich parents.  Mars is just like us!  Still looking forward to more Bobbie and how this is going to play into the future.

Chrisjen makes contact with Fred!  Should I be concerned?!  I still don't trust her spy friend due to the whole "used to be Ashur" thing!

[jhlipton]

Amos: "if you talk to [scientist] about A, he's just going to clam up.  If you talk to him about B, he'll go on and on for hours."

Holden: [talks to scientist about A]

Amos: "Was I just talking to myself ,there???"

[ratSenoL]

(Maybe this should go into the Media topic, but since it's about material in this episode, I'll put it here.)

Last Night's Expanse Was More Proof That It's the Best Scifi Show on TV has some good insight into the Amos character here along with interviews with SS and WC about the episode and specifically the scene where Amos tells Holden to handle the scientist like a pedophile.  Apparently, it helps to have read the novella, The Churn, to gain some insight into Amos.  Apparently I also completely misread the character and impugned the actor's choices.  Now I'm looking forward to seeing how Amos deals with everything coming at him.

[sjohnson]

Re the interview. 

A moral compass is not a survival tool. It’s not a float for getting through the churn. Amos as of now makes zero sense. He is a day dream character. Wouldn’t it be cool if a guy was a psychopath but didn’t act like a psychopath because he latches onto someone to be his conscience?

Well, it’s novel. He doesn't have pointy ears, so people don't realize he's playing Spock.

[raven]

I don't think Amos is a psychopath or even a sociopath.  The fact that he is even interested in doing the right thing, as opposed to only appearing to do the right thing, is a point in his favor.  He's not as empathetic as Naomi, Holden or Alex and keeps his loyalties few and close.  He knows the justifications people make to themselves for what they do.   His conversation with the scientist reminds me of when they show cops interviewing people who have confessed to something awful, and how the police carry on as if it's a normal conversation.  He is the extreme version of Miller. 

Miller IMO is damaged beyond repair.  He's jaded, wanted to do the right thing and threw himself into Julie's case because he was fascinated by her and I think was looking for a success.   Seeing her dead, and then the evil that got her there, finished him mentally in a way - not that he went crazy, but he said his last F its and doled out what he probably considers meager justice - killing Dresden.  Julie was his cause and he wants to see it through and ensure that the Eros contamination doesn't spread; he has nothing else, especially now not being part of the Roci's crew.  IMO part of him knew that would happen when he executed Dresden but the did it anyway.  

12 hours ago, sjohnson said:

how did Julie Mao know about the protomolecule at all?

I don't think she knew much except seeing what happened to the people on her ship.  I could be mis-remembering but there was no reason for her to connect it to her father.  We the audience have been shown that connection and the characters are still reacting to a pretty big horror show on Eros.

 

12 hours ago, pastafarian said:

I also think the actor portraying him was miscast.

I agree with you regarding Dresden, plus by making him one of the scientists its it gave him a greater air of legitimacy.   I expected someone more cold and calculating; his air of desperation was out of place.

10 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I like Diogo. He's obnoxiously friendly and puppyish, but it's fun seeing him annoy Miller. And I like Fred's second as well.  She seems like a mix of a couple of characters from the books.

I liked him as well and liked how they mixed the music/voices.  Musical yet creepy enough.   I was thinking

Spoiler

of Michio Pa

for Fred's second, interesting that he hasn't used her name yet.

I thought it was a good ep, place setting but with enough info to move the story.

[TDT]

Hate when they shorten the title credit sequence in subsquent episodes..

This was a good episode,i'm assuming Holden will end back up on the Racni before the season is over..

Also nice that the episode was dedicated to Richard Hatch(may he R.I.P :(  )

[pastafarian]

18 hours ago, johntfs said:

I'm wondering if Amos had his empathy removed somehow and wants it back.  It would explain how he was able to connect with the scientist psychopath to psychopath.  On another level it explains why he's connected to Naomi.  She's his moral North Star, the one who can make the value judgements he no longer trusts himself to make.

 

Read 'The Churn'

[marinw]

Wow. Saw this on a fifty inch TV.  I would put the visuals of this show up agiant Westworld, Game of Thrones and most feature films.

Like the friendship betwen Naomi and Fred Johnson's Second.

Love all of the Martian Marines, alhough I don't know why they are called marines, unless sace is like the ocesn, hense the Martan Navy.  Interesting character development with Martian Marine from Earth.

Edited February 11, 2017 by marinw

[jhlipton]

Just now, marinw said:

I don't know why they are called marines, unless space is like the ocean, hence the Martan Navy. 

That's pretty much it.  A lot of science fiction was written before the formation of the Air Force, and a lot of writers love 19th century ships, so space ships are usually run from the Navy, and the personnel who serve off the ships are Marines.

[SmithW6079]

I already despise the Bobbie character. I find her macho posturing ridiculous. Also, at one point she referred to her team as "soldiers." Unless things have changed in a few hundred years (which I doubt), a Marine would never refer to himself or his fellow Marines as soldiers. 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, SmithW6079 said:

I already despise the Bobbie character. I find her macho posturing ridiculous. Also, at one point she referred to her team as "soldiers." Unless things have changed in a few hundred years (which I doubt), a Marine would never refer to himself or his fellow Marines as soldiers. 

Well considering her and her colleagues are Martian marines, it's safe to say a fair number of things have changed in a few hundred years. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I already despise the Bobbie character. I find her macho posturing ridiculous. Also, at one point she referred to her team as "soldiers." Unless things have changed in a few hundred years (which I doubt), a Marine would never refer to himself or his fellow Marines as soldiers. 

I'm okay with her.  She loves her nation.  She's obsessed with the idea of a green Mars (something her grandchildren's grandchildren probably won't see).  She's swallowed the party line propaganda on how Earth has taken huge, steaming shits all over Martians for forever and she really, really wants to do something about that.  I doubt she's ever been closer to real combat than the simulation training.  Her CO clearly has, which is why he really doesn't want this to boil over into war.

As for the Marine thing, I know some Marines and I had trouble choking down that one, but cultures change so I'll let it slide.

[SmithW6079]

17 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Well considering her and her colleagues are Martian marines, it's safe to say a fair number of things have changed in a few hundred years. 

 

14 hours ago, johntfs said:

As for the Marine thing, I know some Marines and I had trouble choking down that one, but cultures change so I'll let it slide.

If there's one thing I've learned in 10 years of working with veterans is that a Marine is a Marine is a Marine. Somehow, I don't think that ethos will change even in the future and whether it's a Martian Marine or an Earther Marine. Besides, they're going out of their way to show Bobbie is the quintessential, stereotypical gunnery sergeant. Most likely, the writers don't understand the nuances that exist between the branches. 

So, is "fuck" now an acceptable word on commercial television? I admit, I was shocked when Chrisjen said, "What the fuck is this?" when she got Johnson's message. I think they're going a little overboard with all the "shit" in dialogue too. Don't get me wrong: I swear, but I don't need it to be every other word.

[johntfs]

37 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

 

If there's one thing I've learned in 10 years of working with veterans is that a Marine is a Marine is a Marine. Somehow, I don't think that ethos will change even in the future and whether it's a Martian Marine or an Earther Marine. Besides, they're going out of their way to show Bobbie is the quintessential, stereotypical gunnery sergeant. Most likely, the writers don't understand the nuances that exist between the branches. 

So, is "fuck" now an acceptable word on commercial television? I admit, I was shocked when Chrisjen said, "What the fuck is this?" when she got Johnson's message. I think they're going a little overboard with all the "shit" in dialogue too. Don't get me wrong: I swear, but I don't need it to be every other word.

I'm not a Marine so it's not a deal-breaker for me.  TV/Movies are always getting military stuff wrong and probably always will.

"Fuck" gets dropped quite a lot on Taboo.  I remember Battlestar Galactica and "frak" but BSG was also broadcast on network TV some as well.  It does seem to be a new thing.  Maybe some rule expired or something.

[Clanstarling]

Syfy's a cable network, so the rules are a little looser. Broadcast networks are subject to the FCC rules, which govern signals that go out over the air, instead of cable (if I recall correctly). I'm not sure where FX (Taboo) resides on the network vs cable - there are a number of flavors of FX, aren't there? I remember when HBO first started, it was a huge deal that they could say "fuck" and they did their damnedest to use it excessively.

Battlestar created its own curse words, so they never had to worry about it, even back with the original show.

Stephen Colbert, who moved from cable to network, is very fond of hammering that home as a joke in his CBS show.

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

 

If there's one thing I've learned in 10 years of working with veterans is that a Marine is a Marine is a Marine. Somehow, I don't think that ethos will change even in the future and whether it's a Martian Marine or an Earther Marine. Besides, they're going out of their way to show Bobbie is the quintessential, stereotypical gunnery sergeant. Most likely, the writers don't understand the nuances that exist between the branches. 

I'm sure there are some astronauts and/or sailors watching who say, 'what the hell? We don't behave like that!' Doesn't bother me, because this is a scifi show set hundreds of years in the future.

As for swearing, it's something Avasarala does a lot in the books. Many fans seem to think it's an integral part of her character, and weren't happy that she didn't do it in the first season. Doesn't bother me one way or the other. But it seems like Syfy are genuinely trying to establish themselves as a serious channel for genre TV, and The Expanse is the show they see as their 'prestige' product. I think they're prepared to relax the rules as much as they can.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 2/9/2017 at 11:54 AM, Danny Franks said:

But Holden can be an insufferable prick, when he thinks he's right and someone else is wrong. And anyone who'd turn down ordering lots of room service with Naomi because he's in a snit really needs a kick up the arse.

Ha! This is one of the reasons I can't like Holden. Get the stick out, dude. On the other hand, I thought he made an excellent point that it wasn't up to Miller to serve as judge, jury, and executioner.  Naomi seemed unreasonably snippy with him about it, and I'm like, "Ummm, isn't he the captain or whatever? Why wouldn't he (or Fred Johnson) make that call?"

She annoys me as much as Holden does at times. In truth, I prefer it when they're not interacting.  She's cool opposite everyone else, at least for me. 

On 2/9/2017 at 5:15 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Chrisjen makes contact with Fred!  Should I be concerned?!  I still don't trust her spy friend due to the whole "used to be Ashur" thing!

Glad someone else mentioned this.  Same!

On 2/9/2017 at 5:30 PM, jhlipton said:

Amos: "if you talk to [scientist] about A, he's just going to clam up.  If you talk to him about B, he'll go on and on for hours."

Holden: [talks to scientist about A]

Amos: "Was I just talking to myself ,there???"

Right? Holden just can't help himself. I'm still trying to decide if Steven Strait was properly cast - he's a pleasure to see (I keep wanting to run my fingers through his hair).  Yet, I'm certain I should like and sympathize with Holden, and...nah.  I suspect it's more Strait than the writing. 

On 2/9/2017 at 10:16 PM, raven said:

I don't think Amos is a psychopath or even a sociopath.  The fact that he is even interested in doing the right thing, as opposed to only appearing to do the right thing, is a point in his favor.  He's not as empathetic as Naomi, Holden or Alex and keeps his loyalties few and close.  He knows the justifications people make to themselves for what they do.   His conversation with the scientist reminds me of when they show cops interviewing people who have confessed to something awful, and how the police carry on as if it's a normal conversation.  He is the extreme version of Miller. 

I've not read the books, so I'm going off the show and the actor's performance.  But to me, Amos at times seems MORE empathetic than the others because he's observant and not caught up in navel-gazing or moralizing. To me, empathy is the ability to understand other perspectives and/or motivations.  Which seemed to be just what he was doing with the scientist. I remember last season, when they were in the tunnels trying to get to the ship, and he set the man with the little girl straight. Irony is Holden is so focused on Do!the!Right!Thing! that he can't see past that at times.  

I wasn't sure I liked Alex until this episode, despite said navel-gazing.  He wants to be a hero so badly, bless his heart. 

On 2/10/2017 at 8:46 PM, jhlipton said:

That's pretty much it.  A lot of science fiction was written before the formation of the Air Force, and a lot of writers love 19th century ships, so space ships are usually run from the Navy, and the personnel who serve off the ships are Marines.

Not well-versed in military, so this is interesting! Learned something new today. 

ETA: I thought Avasarala's "WTF?" reaction was funny, especially since I was wondering what the hell I was looking at. 

Edited February 14, 2017 by ribboninthesky1

[sjohnson]

I could have sworn Holden tried a couple of approaches in one interrogation, with Amos watching (because Amos is so cool of course people want him around?) Then he talks with that guy about the magnets stirring the brains. Then Amos tells Holden his conclusion, whereupon it's Amos who interrogates Cortazar. In other words, that Holden listened to Amos and gave him the lead.  The way Amos tells him what's right, then Holden mindlessly ignores him and tries empathizing with him I missed completely. I guess that's a testimony to the power of emotions to rewrite memory.

[Haleth]

Holden is very idealistic and naive.  He grew up on a remote farm with a large loving family, something pretty much unheard of in this world.  His mother told Avasarala about how much he idolized Don Quixote.  It's not for nothing that the ship is named Rocinante.  Yes, his world universe view can be pretty annoying.  That's why he needs the rest of the crew to ground him (no pun intended) with a heavy dose of reality.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Haleth

[Danny Franks]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

Holden is very idealistic and naive.  He grew up on a remote farm with a large loving family, something pretty much unheard of in this world.  His mother told Avasarala about how much he idolized Don Quixote.  It not for nothing that the ship is named Rocinante.  Yes, his world universe view can be pretty annoying.  That's why he needs the rest of the crew to ground him (no pun intended) with a heavy dose of reality.

These are some of the reasons I love Holden. Yes, he can be an overly-righteous prick, and he can hold people to unfeasibly high standards, and he can do really dumb things because he thinks they're the right thing to do. But he is a genuinely good man, who wants to help people and hates the idea of injustice and unfairness. His way of dealing with his ideals, before the show, seems to have been to check out of his natural path in life. First, by joining the Earth Navy instead of staying at home and taking up farming, and then by getting dishonourably discharged from the Navy for refusing what he felt was an unjust order.

So when we meet him he's just coasting along, happily avoiding responsibility and the need to worry about how the world is unfair and how millions of people are being screwed over by those at the top. But when he's forced to face that injustice, he makes his stand and isn't prepared to back down, no matter the cost. Even though he knows it's probably overly-romantic and futile, hence the Don Quixote references.

[WearyTraveler]

3 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

These are some of the reasons I love Holden. Yes, he can be an overly-righteous prick, and he can hold people to unfeasibly high standards, and he can do really dumb things because he thinks they're the right thing to do. But he is a genuinely good man, who wants to help people and hates the idea of injustice and unfairness. His way of dealing with his ideals, before the show, seems to have been to check out of his natural path in life. First, by joining the Earth Navy instead of staying at home and taking up farming, and then by getting dishonourably discharged from the Navy for refusing what he felt was an unjust order.

So when we meet him he's just coasting along, happily avoiding responsibility and the need to worry about how the world is unfair and how millions of people are being screwed over by those at the top. But when he's forced to face that injustice, he makes his stand and isn't prepared to back down, no matter the cost. Even though he knows it's probably overly-romantic and futile, hence the Don Quixote references.

I wholeheartedly agree.  I wish they had spent a little bit more time in the first season establishing Holden's initial emotional and psychological estate and his reluctance/struggle with having to lead.

[ribboninthesky1]

Mileage varies, but I had a completely different perception of Holden at the beginning of the first season.  Books can always flesh out characters more effectively, but as one who hasn't read the books, I don't think the show did much to establish Holden as quixotic before episode 7 (I went back and watched the scenes with Avasarala and Holden's mother - a passing reference to Cervantes isn't exactly character development). 

Normally, I like the fundamentally decent characters.  I've yet to connect with Holden, though. 

[catray]

Is anyone listening to The Churn podcast? It's put on by SyFy and is a weekly follow up to whichever episode has aired (so right now there are two episodes for season 2) and in addition to the hosts, both Daniel and Ty are on every week and so far the guests have included Dominique Tipper (Naomi) and Wes Chatham (Amos). This week had a lot of good information about Amos and how the writers and Wes approach him. I really need to read the Churn novella!

[Danny Franks]

On 16/02/2017 at 0:17 AM, catray said:

Is anyone listening to The Churn podcast? It's put on by SyFy and is a weekly follow up to whichever episode has aired (so right now there are two episodes for season 2) and in addition to the hosts, both Daniel and Ty are on every week and so far the guests have included Dominique Tipper (Naomi) and Wes Chatham (Amos). This week had a lot of good information about Amos and how the writers and Wes approach him. I really need to read the Churn novella!

I listened to the first episode, but wasn't thrilled with the sound quality. For me, podcasts are for the gym, driving or chores, so I prefer to stick to those with good production values most of the time. I've got the second one on my phone, but haven't found time to listen to it yet. From the firdt one, Dominique seems like a real bundle of energy, doesn't she?

[Raja]

On 2/10/2017 at 5:46 PM, jhlipton said:

That's pretty much it.  A lot of science fiction was written before the formation of the Air Force, and a lot of writers love 19th century ships, so space ships are usually run from the Navy, and the personnel who serve off the ships are Marines.

Run by the "Navy" like a Naval vessel and not a combat aircraft. Also for US audiences the Marine Corp was always a professional full time force while the Army was largely made up of civilians drafted or reserves called up for the bigger wars. Thus the standing "elite" status for your characters as  long before we had a standing Cold War force of alert Airborne and Ranger units which could arrive even quicker than an amphibious ship squadron could arrive on scene. But when those old stories were written we had a Marine Corps closer to the outside combat scenes and ready to move and be first to fight.

Once you get away from the US Marine Corps and the UK's Royal Marine Commandos you have more or less a Marine is a Marine and not a soldier service etiquette and speech. So a Martian Marine doesn't observe the customs of a US Marine, even if the main character as almost always is the Gunny being the USMC unique rank, when the French Army Troupe de Marine or the People's Liberation Army Navy Marine Corps also don't follow USMC customs is no big deal.

Edited February 17, 2017 by Raja

[Miles]

edit: whoops, wrong episode.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Miles

[Holmbo]

On 2017-02-09 at 5:54 PM, Danny Franks said:

Another thing I remember from reading Leviathan Wakes, I think at this point I was sure that Miller was going to join the Mormons on the Nauvoo (which looks amazing, by the way. Fantastic design) and fly off into the deep unknown. Same here, I imagine, for non-book readers.

I was thinking that. I couldn't really square it in my mind because I don't expect Miller to be out of the story. It made me think maybe the story would follow the Mormons travel too and maybe they would run into something outside the solar system.
 

On 2017-07-03 at 0:47 AM, doram said:

At the last scene: Please don’t steal the Space Mormons’s Space Ark. I know it was inevitable since it was introduced that the Ark would end up being ‘commandeered’ for some lofty adventure but I really wish the Mormons would keep their Ark and go to find Space Eden. 

I agree :D

I haven't watched the next episode yet, but it makes me worry that their ship will get destroyed and they won't get to go on their pilgrimage. I guess I was sold on that sermon the guy gave to Miller, I'm all for their mission, even though I've read Aurora by Kim Stanley Robinsson which goes into dept how terrible it would be living on a generation ship.

On 2017-02-09 at 8:34 PM, johntfs said:

I'm wondering if Amos had his empathy removed somehow and wants it back.  It would explain how he was able to connect with the scientist psychopath to psychopath.  On another level it explains why he's connected to Naomi.  She's his moral North Star, the one who can make the value judgements he no longer trusts himself to make.

I did get the feeling he had some personal stake in asking if the empathy can be restored. If he's worrying about his own lack of empathy I feel like that is a good sign he has at least some. It seems many people find his character unbelievable. His personality is very extreme, as fictional characters with personality disorders tend to be, but I'm willing to accept it.

 

Quote

It was great to see Alex being obsessive over the battle. It was also great to see Naomi out of uniform. 

I was so confused about what he was doing. Shows how little I value redshirts lives that I didn't even tink he'd be upset about that :D

[WatchrTina]

I'm very late to this board (I'm doing a re-watch) but I'd like to point out the sheer comic genius of the bar-room scene.  Amos delivers the pathetically empty bag holding all of Miller's worldly goods.  Miller invites him for a drink.  Amos puts down three shots in rapid succession until Miller silently moves the bottle out of reach.  And all the while there is this amazing conversation taking place that had me laughing out loud.  I love the writing on this show.  That scene is a gem.

[truther]

I'm just watching this series now, sorry to be 4 years out of date 🙂.  Generally I like it, with a few quibbles (and I wish they'd stop shooting people in the head all the time).  But I just need to get off my chest that the decision to destroy Deimos strikes me as one of the most strategically idiotic ideas in human history.  I have no idea how anyone with even an ounce of common sense would possibly think it was a constructive thing to do, no matter their background or perspective, especially coming so soon after the Donnager.  It takes me out of the show to think that the people governing Earth are halfwits.  I'm kind of hoping Mars pulls a Starship Troopers and fires Deimos' remains back to Earth and destroys Buenos Aires or something.  

Also that Martian gunney needs to get it together.  Her attitude to her superior officer is appalling.  

And with all those scenes of Alex going through the simulation and but never succeeding even using the real data, I was expecting him to discover some kind of hidden flaw in the actual battle, like that the real stealth ship was on autopilot or that his display had been compromised -- something to suggest the assault was some kind of charade they'd been tricked into doing.  It's weird how sometimes on this show things are super convoluted and not as they appear, while other times just as simplistic as they seem at first glance.  

Finally, loved Amos' pedophile insight specifically and his overall development generally.  This show's characters are a little hit or miss for me; Holden, for example, is very one-note and it's telling that they use scenes with his mom talking to Chrisjen to give him any depth.  He and Miller together remind me of some sweeps week network show awkwardly pairing people from different programs, like The Murder She Wrote Lady Visits Hawaii and Hires Magnum, p.i.  Amos, on the other hand, seems a really fleshed-out guy with a fascinating backstory.