S05.E11: Second Chances

[Starfish35]

I will say about Tinah....for all of Curtis' gushing about her bad-ass fighting skills, I didn't see anything that really impressed me.  Yeah, she can hold her own, and she's a huge improvement over Laurel.  But, while I know I have a serious bias on the subject, nothing I saw tonight can compare with Sara's skill.  I know a large part of that is Caity's training, but I guess I was expecting something a little more impressive. 

[tv echo]

13 hours ago, finnaire said:

And for me, the Quest for the Legend that is St Laurel was totally overshadowed by the Mystery of the Inspirational Savior. Loved Talia. Loved seeing Oliver put on the Arrow suit for the first time.  Not gonna lie, all the way back to the pilot I always wondered  where that suit came from. Could never imagine him buying it - not off the rack and not on-line (I’m looking at you, Helena scene of misdirection). So, to know that it was given to him tickled my  need for critical details fancy. And, of course, we now also know where his first bow came from too.  The flashbacks this season have been my saving grace and they continue not to disappoint.

One of the media reviewers commented that this episode ret-conned Oliver's Hood origin story - that what we saw in previous seasons was that Oliver inherited the hood suit from Shado,* who was the one who taught him how to shoot an arrow, and that he inherited his S1 bow from Yao Fei.  I don't recall any more. Is this true?

(* Suits on this show magically adapt to the person wearing them. Just like Roy's Arsenal suit shrunk to fit Thea's Speedy. Just like Laurel's BC suit will probably adapt to fit Tina/Dinah - maybe.)

Well, I guess we know now why Evelyn Sharp had to be the traitor and removed from the team.  Otherwise, Team Arrow would have two members with the canary cry - Evelyn with her sonic cry device and Tina/Dinah with her metahuman cry. If Evelyn returns in a future episode, I wonder if she'll use her sonic device - and it'll be canary cry versus canary cry.

Edited February 3, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Videos of 511 scenes with Felicity - sometimes includes other scenes as well in same video (courtesy of Heroes Club)...

Arrow 5x11 Oliver & Team Arrow - Part #2

Arrow 5x11 Oliver & Team Arrow meets Tina Boland - Part #4

Arrow 5x11 Green Arrow, Wild Dog & Tina Boland - Part #6

Arrow 5x11 Felicity & Rory - Part #9

Arrow 5x11 Felicity & her fan - Part #10

Arrow 5x11 Oliver becomes Arrow - Part #12

[ComicFan777]

For some reason, I was thinking the hood was first Yao Fei's, then he died and Shado wore it, then she died and Oliver wore it.  I don't remember S1 very well, but I also thought that Yao Fei's bow was the back up one that Oliver pulled out of the green box after he broke his first one in a fight with Malcolm...but maybe I'm remembering this wrong.

[bijoux]

9 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

For some reason, I was thinking the hood was first Yao Fei's, then he died and Shado wore it, then she died and Oliver wore it.  I don't remember S1 very well, but I also thought that Yao Fei's bow was the back up one that Oliver pulled out of the green box after he broke his first one in a fight with Malcolm...but maybe I'm remembering this wrong.

This is how I remember it as well with the hood. Oliver never inherited the full suit, but the hood attached to a let's say vest. And the order of inheritance was just that, Yao Fei-->Shado-->Oliver. I forgot about the bow, but someone on Twitter brought up the same thing recently, and you're right.

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

For some reason, I was thinking the hood was first Yao Fei's, then he died and Shado wore it, then she died and Oliver wore it.  I don't remember S1 very well, but I also thought that Yao Fei's bow was the back up one that Oliver pulled out of the green box after he broke his first one in a fight with Malcolm...but maybe I'm remembering this wrong

You had it right soooooo.....Retcon!

Question has Olicity Queen stopped posting her videos? I just noticed the YouTube clips provided were from another account.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[tv echo]

Olicity Queen stopped posting vids after 505.  I've been finding episode clips posted by Heroes Club and Arrow...

Arrow - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtiCOweGmyKAO2odjX0qiDg
Heroes Club - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl2vAna7TGmH2iCIxeV_z1g

Edited February 3, 2017 by tv echo

[bijoux]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You had it right soooooo.....Retcon!

Question has Olicity Queen stopped posting her videos? I just noticed the YouTube clips provided were from another account.

Is it a retcon? Talia said she found Yao Fei's hood. She gave Oliver that plus the suit and the bow he was using for most of S1.

[ComicFan777]

Oh no, I am saying that it is not retconned - counter to claims by reviewer.
The hood did originally belong to Yao Fei.  Then it was used by Shado.  Then it was passed down to Oliver.
The bow Oliver used as the Hood is Talia's - after it broke in a fight with Malcolm, he took Yao Fei's bow out to use in the final fight in S1.

Edited February 3, 2017 by ComicFan777

[tv echo]

I'm still confused. Did Oliver get the hood directly from Talia or from Shado?

[Chaser]

I thought Oliver picked up The Hood and bow on his own to come back to SC and take down the List for his father/family sins. I liked that.

But apparently he ran away, was grabbed by Talia, given the Hood and bow and told he needs to go back home? Is that what they are going for?

[Morrigan2575]

9 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Is it a retcon? Talia said she found Yao Fei's hood. She gave Oliver that plus the suit and the bow he was using for most of S1.

I wasn't paying much attention but, didn't Oliver have the Hood in S4 Coast City? So did he leave it in the Island and then Talia just randomly found it and thought he should use it? Did she find it hiding in his bedroom?  

Guess I need to stop Playing Candy Crush during Arrow.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I wasn't paying much attention but, didn't Oliver have the Hood in S4 Coast City? So did he leave it in the Island and then Talia just randomly found it and thought he should use it? Did she find it hiding in his bedroom?  

Guess I need to stop Playing Candy Crush during Arrow.

He definitely had it in Coast City. That part I remember clearly. I think he left in on the island before he left it in S4, but I won't vouch for that part. I do seem to remember him leaving a box or a trunk with stuff there before leaving.

[ComicFan777]

I think Oliver kept the hood and bow in his belongings in Russia.  I think we saw the green box being hauled off by ARGUS agents onto the helicopter with him at the end of S4 - it could have just been the magic totem mask though.  If he did have them, Talia probably recognized them among his Russian belongings while she was investigating him and brought them back to her place to interrogate him about it

Edited February 3, 2017 by ComicFan777

[bijoux]

So, who's the brave soul that will make the sacrifice and watch the final flashback from last year to confirm what happened with Oliver's belongings when he left the island for Russia?

[romantic idiot]

On February 2, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

Hallmark Channel's Aurora Teagarden Mysteries

Wait, these exist? *scuttles off to watch* Much rather watch Chaplaine Harris's adaptations than this hash of comic canon. 'Dinah Drake indeed.

[johntfs]

9 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm still waiting for that explanation as to why Talia's LoA connection was never brought up.  Is she just never going to mention it?

No, she's probably never going to mention her affiliation with a secret order of assassins.  Which makes her far and away the most professional, competent member of the LoA we've seen thus far.  First rule of assassin's club:  Don't talk about assassin's club.

Edited February 3, 2017 by johntfs

[theOAfc]

Heard this is the only sane Arrow board around the internet. Is it true?

[tv echo]

So through "5 years in hell" that traversed the globe, Oliver managed to hang onto Laurel's pic, Yao Fei/Shado's hood and Yao Fei's old bow.

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I think Oliver kept the hood and bow in his belongings in Russia.  I think we saw the green box being hauled off by ARGUS agents onto the helicopter with him at the end of S4 - it could have just been the magic totem mask though.  If he did have them, Talia probably recognized them among his Russian belongings while she was investigating him and brought them back to her place to interrogate him about it

I do believe that was just the Totem because we saw the Hive Agent (that recruited Deadshot to kill Andy and was subsequently killed by Darhk in S4) taking the the chest.

[ComicFan777]

...and don't forget the book.

[Chaser]

2 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Heard this is the only sane Arrow board around the internet. Is it true?

Lol! I won't say there isn't some crazy...

[theOAfc]

On 2/2/2017 at 4:12 AM, Tazmania said:

Has Stephen Amell forgot how to act or what? I mean he was never Al Pacino but he looked totally wooden and bored out of his mind. He just phoned in his lines and the director was least bothered to get him to do better. 

He seems bored for majority of the episodes unless its emotional scenes that he (probably) treats as important. He also struggles much with actresses in the chemisty department.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

So through "5 years in hell" that traversed the globe, Oliver managed to hang onto Laurel's pic, Yao Fei/Shado's hood and Yao Fei's old bow.

I'm waiting for him to misplace something in present-day and someone to be like, "But you managed to keep track of X, Y, Z while you were on an island and transported to different countries while unconscious and/or kicked out of a plane." 

Edited February 3, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[Chaser]

4 minutes ago, tv echo said:

So through "5 years in hell" that traversed the globe, Oliver managed to hang onto Laurel's pic, Yao Fei/Shado's hood and Yao Fei's old bow.

 

3 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

...and don't forget the book.

They should have just had him bury this stuff on the island and then come back for it when he decided to go home.

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, johntfs said:

No, she's probably never going to mention her affiliation with a secret order of assassins.  Which makes her far and away the most professional, competent member of the LoA we've seen thus far.  First rule of assassin's club:  Don't talk about assassin's club.

Except Oliver mentions in S2 (I think) that he heard about the LoA and Ra's so it's more likely that she does tell him at some point. They just have to have Talia go by Talia and not Talia All Ghul the entire flashback time. Of course the really smart thing would have been to have Talia go only by Miranda Tate in Russia and Then reveal to Oliver that she was Talia All Ghul when she eventually shows up in SC. I'm guessing she'll show up in SC using the Miranda Tate alias.

BTW: I think having Talia give him Yao Fei's hood and tell Oliver to go back to SC kind of cheapens the Pilot and S1 storyline. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

2 minutes ago, Chaser said:

 

They should have just had him bury this stuff on the island and then come back for it when he decided to go home.

Wasn't the book actually on the island while he was in Hong Kong and he found it when he went back in S4 flashbacks? Stupid, boring storyline that I can't remember.

[tv echo]

9 minutes ago, theOAfc said:

Heard this is the only sane Arrow board around the internet. Is it true?

Depends on who you ask. But based on your avatar, I'd say this is the place for you. :)

Edited February 3, 2017 by tv echo

[theOAfc]

Just now, tv echo said:

Depends on who you ask. But based on your avatar, I'd say this is the place for you. :)

No trust me the olicity fandom has its fair share of crazies. But youre right id rather it is felicity friendly. 

[ComicFan777]

Your avatar makes me want a Goth Felicity funko.

[Chaser]

8 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

BTW: I think having Talia give him Yao Fei's hood and tell Oliver to go back to SC kind of cheapens the Pilot and S1 storyline. 

The more flashbacks I see the more I don't care for flashback Oliver. I thought they would take a que from The DK Triology and have Oliver be seeking out training and connections in order to come back to SC The Hood. Instead he wanders around getting his butt kicked and feeling sorry for himself. It's like every big moment is forced upon him.

I don't like it.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

The more flashbacks I see the more I don't care for flashback Oliver. I thought they would take a que from The DK Triology and have Oliver be seeking out training and connections in order to come back to SC The Hood. Instead he wanders around getting his butt kicked and feeling sorry for himself. It's like every big moment is forced upon him.

Yeah, I feel like he's going to have to go through some hardcore extensive training/attitude adjustments in the next few episodes, right? I would have thought that would have at least started in the first few S5 episodes' flashbacks. But we're already at 511, going into 512, and I'm not that impressed with flashback Oliver, especially not when it comes to see what see in S1. 

[Guest]

Well, I tried but I couldn't even get through this episode. Now I know why my boyfriend switched it off about halfway through the other night. I did the same. Twenty minutes felt like 2 hours long. Yikes.

And I'm having real trouble connecting with/liking Oliver this season. I just get absolutely nothing from him. I wonder how long Robot!Oliver is gonna stick around because I'm tired. I also wonder what SA was talking about when he said he fought harder for his character this season. Did he fight to make him worse? IDK. Baffling.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Guest

[ComicFan777]

Do you think that Arrow will tackle the morality issue again?  I mean, Oliver is wondering if he is really just a killer or not or something - really it is just confusing.  The team called him a serial killer in one episode.  He was dead set on bringing in a new member that kills like crazy.  The team killed like crazy to convince her to come with them.  I don't understand the moral code they are going to be working with now.  I didn't watch this episode very carefully, but did they make a deal with Tina for her not to kill as much at the end or is it just up in the air?

Edited February 3, 2017 by ComicFan777

[AyChihuahua]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

And I'm having real trouble connecting with/liking Oliver this season. I just get absolutely nothing from him. I wonder how long Robot!Oliver is gonna stick around because I'm tired. I also wonder what SA was talking about when he said he fought harder for his character this season. Did he fight to make him worse? IDK. Baffling.

I personally think he was 100% talking about the fighty-fights. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AyChihuahua said:

I personally think he was 100% talking about the fighty-fights. 

Probably. Too bad fight scenes aren't the reason I stuck with this show so long. I watch for characters and relationships, whether romantic or not. Amazing stunts are a bonus.

[Cleanqueen]

9 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I personally think he was 100% talking about the fighty-fights. 

Yup cause that's the comment he responded to. Something about the fights being abysmal in season 4. 

[statsgirl]

I refuse to watch that last scene again but as far as I know, there was no deal with DTinah to kill less.  Oliver was all moping around his office because they'd lost the Laurel replacement and then she suddenly showed up (as per the spoiled script) and they talked about second chances (her being Oliver's) and comics name.

8 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Lexa Doig's British accent was throwing me.  I've seen her in several other things and that is not the voice I'm used to.  Nonetheless, Talia's an interesting character.  I have thoughts, but I think I'm going to take it to a different thread.  

Who is it here that's a Roricity shipper?  The rest of you don't kill me please, but yeah, I could see it tonight. Lol.

Poor Felicity has had so little support, I can totally see a Raglicity ship.  He's a good guy and unlike most of the people in her life, notices when she needs something.

I liked Lexa Doig's accent.  I wonder if it's to match Katrina Law's because it would be pretty weird for Nyssa to have an accept and Talia speak in mainland B.C.

1 hour ago, theOAfc said:

He seems bored for majority of the episodes

 I know I am.

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

BTW: I think having Talia give him Yao Fei's hood and tell Oliver to go back to SC kind of cheapens the Pilot and S1 storyline. 

I think it cheapens Oliver as a character overall.  Instead of the past 4 years giving him focus and determination, he's still fratboy Oliver, needing someone else to tell him the right way.

[theOAfc]

47 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Probably. Too bad fight scenes aren't the reason I stuck with this show so long. I watch for characters and relationships, whether romantic or not. Amazing stunts are a bonus.

Im all for fight scenes but usually when an actor fights for their characters they just want them to be honored as personalities. Clearly that wasnt in SA's mind. 

[Bats27]

The name thing, was really really contrived, and groan-inducing. And given how poorly they've handled their female characters in the past (and present actually), I'm not exactly optimistic about this new one.

Talia is potentially intriguing though. And Oliver, enough with the "no killing" nonsense, because even you still do to (remember when you flat-out executed Damian Darhk last season)?

[tennisgurl]

3 hours ago, tv echo said:

So through "5 years in hell" that traversed the globe, Oliver managed to hang onto Laurel's pic, Yao Fei/Shado's hood and Yao Fei's old bow.

Its pretty impressive a guy who was supposedly stuck on an island for 5 years has racked up so many frequent flier miles.

I feel like Oliver is either really tired lately, or really depressed. I buy it, but I'm not sure its what they're actually going for. Oliver has never really been a smiley happy guy, but this doesn't even feel like his usual stoic intensity, it just seems bored. I can only guess its because Steven is having trouble playing off the new actors, because I thought he was alive and well during the cross over episodes, where he got to work with more of the Arrowverse Old Guard, and was clearly having fun.

[Sakura12]

Why do they keep talking about Laurel's legacy? Isn't NuCanary copying Sara's. 

Sara's first appearence was her beating misogynists. Another time she shows up and kills the Dollmaker while Oliver wanted to send him to jail. Then when they go on a mission together Oliver tells her not to kill the guy, so she doesn't. 

None of that was in Laurel's "legacy". She was a glorified side kick that thought she was an equal. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sakura12

[Morrigan2575]

55 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Why do they keep talking about Laurel's legacy? Isn't NuCanary copying Sara's. 

Sara's first appearence was her beating misogynists. Another time she shows up and kills the Dollmaker while Oliver wanted to send him to jail. Then when they go on a mission together Oliver tells her not to kill the guy, so she doesn't. 

None of that was in Laurel's "legacy". She was a glorified side kick that thought she was an equal. 

Because Sara never existed as the BC. All of these events you speak of, never happened. ?

My guess is they're copying Sara's introduction because it worked well the first time. They're pretending it's all about Laurel and Laurel is so great because (IMO) they're trying to save their IP.

[blackwing]

14 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe nothing makes him different.  It just seems like a potential way to blur lines and introduce trouble into actors' personal lives.  But if it works out and everyone's professional enough to keep reel life separate from real life, then everything's cool.

I'm with those that don't see why him being married with a kid has anything to do with his character's relationship or his opinion on where he wants his character's direction to go.  He is an ACTOR.  Actors have relationships onscreen with other actors.  They kiss each other, they grope each other, they see each other butt naked... and at the end of the day, they go home to their own personal lives.  You talked as if it is surprising that even though he has a wife and kid in real life, he is in favour of the Oliver/Felicity relationship.  If you think that is surprising, then that must mean you don't think much of his skills as an actor, and that you think he is so bad at his job that what he does onscreen is going to spill over and break up his marriage.

[wonderwall]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

I'm with those that don't see why him being married with a kid has anything to do with his character's relationship or his opinion on where he wants his character's direction to go.  He is an ACTOR.  Actors have relationships onscreen with other actors.  They kiss each other, they grope each other, they see each other butt naked... and at the end of the day, they go home to their own personal lives.  You talked as if it is surprising that even though he has a wife and kid in real life, he is in favour of the Oliver/Felicity relationship.  If you think that is surprising, then that must mean you don't think much of his skills as an actor, and that you think he is so bad at his job that what he does onscreen is going to spill over and break up his marriage.

To be completely fair, a lot of co-workers have started affairs/relationships, doesn't make them any less skilled. Examples:

• Gynnifer /Josh (OUAT)
• Brad/Angelina (Mr & Mrs Smith)
• Blake/Ryan (Green Lantern)
• Morena/Ben (Gotham) 
• Milo/Alexis (Gilmore Girls)

Etc.

Edited February 3, 2017 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

Jennifer Morrison and Jesse Spencer met and got engaged while working on House.  David Shore, who makes MG look like a brilliant auteur, then put their characters together on the show and then get married, which must have been super awkward when they broke up a couple of seasons in.

[looptab]

That must be the most bored I've been watching Arrow. At some point I started missing Ra's al Guhl.

I felt sorry for the newbies, who clearly have watched the show before, so they knew that any of the women they were proposing would have been an awesome fit for the team, yet they were hit by Oliver and Felicity's delusions of St.Laurel. "This woman is building the Glades back up? Are you insane? Laurel went into a collapsing building to save FILES! Show some respect!"

BY the way, did I misinterpret or did it seem like the fan girl knew who Felicity was before she met her on the bench? I mean, she seemed to already know that Ghost Fox Goddes was Felicity Smoak - she did say that she thought she'd be back at it after she was fired.

On 2/2/2017 at 6:08 AM, thegirlsleuth said:

 Rory remains the best. The way he said "Goth?" with the little head tilt has cemented Rory and Felicity as my backup crack ship.

19 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Who is it here that's a Roricity shipper?  The rest of you don't kill me please, but yeah, I could see it tonight. Lol.

*raises hand* Me!!! Come sit here with me!

Those two and Talia were the only bright spots of the episode for me.

[EmilyBettFan]

This episode felt so long because most of us could care less about this BC. It felt like the same scenes with both Oliver and Tinah complaining and finding revenge blah blah.

[way2interested]

20 minutes ago, looptab said:

BY the way, did I misinterpret or did it seem like the fan girl knew who Felicity was before she met her on the bench? I mean, she seemed to already know that Ghost Fox Goddes was Felicity Smoak - she did say that she thought she'd be back at it after she was fired.

She knew who Felicity was but not that she worked with the Arrow/GA. I kind of took it as she was way more interested in Felicity the hacker rather than the person and was only concerned with where Ghost Fox Goddess went (because Felicity Smoak went into IT and then became a CEO but was then fired, so now she can come back). Tbh, I saw it kind of purposefully patronizing, as if, "well, your real life sucks, come back with the cool kids," and it kind of worked since Felicity couldn't mention that she's been helping to save the city (county, world, whatever) for the last 4 years.

[tv echo]

Here's another SpoilerTV readers' poll for this episode - I have to admit, I was surprised by the results (even though I voted for the Felicity scene)...

POLL : Favourite scene from Arrow - Second Chances
Bradley Adams at February 04, 2017
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/02/poll-favourite-scene-from-arrow-second.html

Current results:
39%    Felicity meets Kojo Sledgehammer
21%    Talia tells Oliver he isn't a monster right before he puts on the suit for the first time
(Votes for remaining scenes are in the single digits.)

Edited February 4, 2017 by tv echo