S05.E11: Second Chances

[statsgirl]

SA was looking JH directly in the face rather than his usual off-to-the-side look. Don't kill my OTP!  Also, yes incredibly stupid to follow through.  The Olicity contingent is much larger than the comics fanboys.

I noticed a couple of times times Felicity said that she was happy now that she is  hacking again.  Dark arc my ass.

[Mellowyellow]

35 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

 

 

She's pouting!!!!!! OMG she's adorable!!!!! Contemplating whether it's worth fast forwarding the entire thing and watching to see her pull this face!

[Chaser]

I found some Felicity scenes. I really liked the scene with the other hacker. As set up, I thought it was pretty good. I love Rory. Felicity and Rory is the one new dynamic I'm all for.

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

SA was looking JH directly in the face rather than his usual off-to-the-side look. Don't kill my OTP!  Also, yes incredibly stupid to follow through.  The Olicity contingent is much larger than the comics fanboys.

Ugh! So you reckon they have chemistry?

[catrox14]

I don't trust the other hacker. I fear it's gonna end up taking down Felicity :(

[Chaser]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

SA was looking JH directly in the face rather than his usual off-to-the-side look. Don't kill my OTP!  Also, yes incredibly stupid to follow through.  The Olicity contingent is much larger than the comics fanboys.

I noticed a couple of times times Felicity said that she was happy now that she is  hacking again.  Dark arc my ass.

But does it count if he is considering his bowel movements?

[wonderwall]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ugh! So you reckon they have chemistry?

no they don't. 

[catrox14]

You know honestly, Oliver shooting down the chopper was cool but it probably hurt some people on the ground when it crashed...

[bettername2come]

Captain Singh's cameo and Barry's "he's legit" post-it made the episode for me. I'm deeply curious about what Oliver's text actually said. Those are the logical kinds of crossovers I love. But I'm not excited for Dinah Drake, and I'd like Diggle to just get a Presidential pardon and get back to the team. And also, I watched Teen Wolf after this episode and am now convinced Lydia would make a better Black Canary.

[way2interested]

17 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

IMO that's kinda Oliver's default face now. And I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I see the face in his scenes with Felicity too. 

Agree with this to the extent that SA has definitely been phoning it in a few times this season/working on autopilot. The same goes for DR and EBR (although for them less of phoning it in but definitely acting on autopilot).

[Hiveminder]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ugh! So you reckon they have chemistry?

More than Oliver and Laurel, but so do a pair of socks. 

[thegirlsleuth]

Considering that Oliver--Stephen?--was doing his anti-chemistry thing that he used to save just for Laurel, there were some bright spots in an otherwise prosaic episode.  

Tina did a solid job of pulling off the physicality of the Black Canary, which is important, but her acting came across as pre-teen mugging and sighing.  It was especially bad with Oliver, which might have been because Stephen was doing his black hole impression.  I usually like his acting, but tonight there was a deadness and joylessness to all his interactions, and he just came across as exhausted.  

Logic question:  When Oliver called Central City police, why did they have her file under "Tina Boland" instead of "Dinah Drake" if Tina was her undercover name?  Was she undercover with the cops so she could go undercover with Sonos?  I'd make a Due South joke, but I'm the only one who'd get it.

Talia is the bomb.  For the first time, I'm disappointed that they dissolved the League of Assassins because I'd like to see her with an army behind her, and the flashbacks were the one place where Amell was sparking. In addition to the bow and hood, did she give him the chest?

Renee was almost . . . charming. Curtis still doesn't work for me, and I think it is figured it out--he doesn't have a good rhythm with Oliver.  He's ok with others--I like him with Renee--but he doesn't work with Oliver.  Rory remains the best. The way he said "Goth?" with the little head tilt has cemented Rory and Felicity as my backup crack ship.

I'm interested in seeing where Felicity's story goes.  Perhaps Felicity will be inspired to use the list of people on the jump drive to bring down those poisoning her city.

Sonus's power came with hilariously bad special effects--the way everyone wobbled around reminded me of how actors used to throw themselves around when the Enterprise got hit with Klingon blasters.  

All in all, I didn't hate the episode, but I came away thinking that Stephen Amell did.

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Logic question:  When Oliver called Central City police, why did they have her file under "Tina Boland" instead of "Dinah Drake" if Tina was her undercover name?

Because if they filed correctly it would ruin the surprise!

[catrox14]

I just DON'T CARE  about this new Black Canary. It's taking up time from what I DO care about.  Boring. II was silly happy to see Oliver with his old hood and bow. That's my OTP right there.

[BkWurm1]

30 minutes ago, benteen said:

The helicopter scene was amazing.

I found too many plot holes while watching it to enjoy it.

 First it was shooting at them and sending them all ducking for cover but when Oliver is just standing there dead still for like five seconds lining up his first shot, they don't even fire at him and then when he's swinging around on the end of the rope (and they still aren't shooting at anyone anymore) he's helpfully swung into just the thug needing to be knocked down (who also doesn't try to shoot at him) and he's bouncing up and down like he's on a bungee cord and then once he's taken down the goons on the roof (and the Helicopter is still not firing on anyone) then he once AGAIN, stops dead still to shoot another arrow at it (and again no one tries to shoot him).  This time the arrow cause the helicopter to go into distress but rather than just fall to the pavement below or crash on the roof, it blows up so only shrapnel would rain down (and likely burning fuel while infusing the air with the new addictive drug they were trying to get off the streets.)

And then he tried to shame Tina into not killing.  

I think about the only thing I really enjoyed was when after Oliver implored her to stop and think about what she was about to do and ask herself what would Vince want her to do...she instantly plugs the guy with four shots in the torso.  Oops, wrong approach Oliver.  Vince apparently held grudges, lol.

 

25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ugh! So you reckon they have chemistry?

Honestly, I felt like he wasn't reacting to what was in front of him, rather that he was moping and brooding about St. Laurel (not to be confused with the one we watched on the show) and using that to inform how he spoke his lines.  

He was mopey through the whole episode in a way I've never seen before.  He just seemed overall bummed, even with good things or getting what he wanted.  

Edited February 2, 2017 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

6 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

All in all, I didn't hate the episode, but I came away thinking that Stephen Amell did.

Often I'd joke about this, but I kind of buy into it this time.  It seemed to go beyond how Oliver should be reacting.  

[thegirlsleuth]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Often I'd joke about this, but I kind of buy into it this time.  It seemed to go beyond how Oliver should be reacting.  

I don't generally make assumptions about actor's headspace, but Amell was seriously off through the whole main plot, only rousing for the flashbacks.  It was noticeable.

[BkWurm1]

I wonder if they will ever explain where she got her hand to hand combat skills.  

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, BkWurm1 said:

I wonder if they will ever explain where she got her hand to hand combat skills.  

She's so good, we don't need an explanation. 

[BkWurm1]

2 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't generally make assumptions about actor's headspace, but Amell was seriously off through the whole main plot, only rousing for the flashbacks.  It was noticeable.

When would this have been filmed?  Can we tie it to any interesting gossip?  Lol

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

When would this have been filmed?  Can we tie it to any interesting gossip?  Lol

Was this the episode he filmed after his nose was broken? Maybe he wasn't well?

[Starfish35]

28 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I'd make a Due South joke, but I'm the only one who'd get it.

Not so! :)

Unfortunately the CW site/app is down this evening, so I'm probably not going to be able to watch it tonight.  :( I wanted to see Tinah (I think that's going to stick) for myself. 

Re: SA's acting - I thought he was off the last episode too.  But I was reasoning that he did just kill an innocent man.  Huh.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Starfish35

[Guest]

I haven't watched the episode and don't intend to, at least not yet, but SA has kinda been phoning in his performance most of this season. At least I think so. There's just something missing lately. IDK what it is.

[ohjoy]

3 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

And another thing . . . how many crimes were being committed in Central City when the particle accelerator exploded? I have lost track.

Word -- seriously though.

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I did appreciate that they had Oliver and Tinah leave room for 10,000 Jesuses during their talk in the mayor's office, regardless of what happens (or doesn't happen) between them in the future.

Heh -- this made me chuckle.

I eyerolled so hard at the name reveal (way to shut down the "but only Laurel has the comics name!" contingent, writers), then when Oliver started on about "his friend" with that name, I thought, "you mean Laurel's mother, the illustrious Dinah River Song Lance?" Gah, what a mess they've made of the entire BC connection, simply by refusing to let it go when they should have dropped it.

And show, pleeaaassee prove me wrong, and don't ship off you other females into "their own storyline" (or straight into storyline ether) just so you can integrate a new female into the team. Action/adventure can still exist without structural damage even if there are more than one or two females in a group. Smh.

[Chaser]

I don't knows if it's intended or not, but I kind feel SA has played Oliver rather resigned this season. Flashes of anger but pretty sad or exhausted or grumpy or just something. 

[catrox14]

Oh, color me shocked that I liked Wild Dong in this episode. He had the most reasonable and cogent line of the episode

"Look, I didn't know this Laurel chick, but it seems like you're taking on a lot to keep this promise to her' in a way that was like 'WTF, dude! This is nuts!'  or in my head that's what it meant.

[tangerine95]

Yeah I do think that's something weird and lacking in his acting in season 5. I had my issues with his acting at the start of season 1 but I thought SA improved and was doing a pretty good job consistently until now. He has good moments and episodes but idk too much of the time he seems as emotionless and stoic as he used to be in season 1. It might be because they are limiting his scenes with the actors he's better with like EBR, DR, WH or PB and having him interact so much with newbies, the reporter and KC more than he did when LL was actually alive. I kinda think when this season started SA basically put more focus into the action and stunts aspect and making Oliver look badass then the emotional scenes so that might have affected it too. They're not even really giving him good material this season, Oliver is a total contrived illogical mess rn.

I still think he does a good job in olicity scenes and the chemistry is always there and elevates the material but there hasn't been many meaningful olicity scenes this season so far. 

[statsgirl]

I LOL'd at the last scene in the mayor's office, when Oliver is just standing there looking out of the window when Tina comes in. No wonder Thea has to do all the work, Oliver just looks out the windows.

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ugh! So you reckon they have chemistry?

They could if they try.  They are actors who don't have chemistry (SA and KC) but there are also actors who could have chemistry when it's called for.  (I though there was a lot of chemistry between Kara and James in the first two episodes of Supergirl but then the actors were told to pull back and poof! it vanished.

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

Agree with this to the extent that SA has definitely been phoning it in a few times this season/working on autopilot. The same goes for DR and EBR (although for them less of phoning it in but definitely acting on autopilot).

DR and EBR haven't really been given anything good to do though.  Felicity is supposed to be numbed by Havenrock (I hope) and DR got a brief moments in the army but since then nothing that's worth acting.

2 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Logic question:  When Oliver called Central City police, why did they have her file under "Tina Boland" instead of "Dinah Drake" if Tina was her undercover name?  Was she undercover with the cops so she could go undercover with Sonos?  I'd make a Due South joke, but I'm the only one who'd get it.

Make it!  Bonus points if it involves Diefenbaker.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

When would this have been filmed?  Can we tie it to any interesting gossip?  Lol

They started shooting it November 1, I think.

Edited February 2, 2017 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

Stephen shines when he's acting with the following people: Susanna, Willa, Emily, David, Caity, Manu... Basically people Stephen can call his friends, people Stephen look up to, or people whose acting Stephen appreciates. None of whom Stephen has really been able to interact with much this season. So it makes sense that he seems a bit off. 

Emily/David have been a bit more on autopilot because they've been sidelined too (I agree with @statsgirl here). Not much you can do with what they've been given. But usually their scenes - when they're given some focus, are great. 

Edited February 2, 2017 by wonderwall

[bijoux]

The GA/BC show was super boring, but I did enjoy Felicity and Friends during intermission.

The CC reporter lady is the real Flash, though. Did you notice how she changed her outfit and hair in the time it took the thugs to walk up to Tinah?

[johntfs]

Loved the return of Hacker Goddess Felicity.  As far as Tina/Dinah does, there's a thick, wide, easily visible line between keeping a promise and servicing a fetish, Oliver.  You crossed it.  At speed.  I did like trolling Oliver with astronaut/ninja.

Edited February 2, 2017 by johntfs

[Mellowyellow]

I watched it. It was dull and Felicity was charming. If she is going dark (and they aren't just lying to keep you all watching) I actually think they did well keeping her in character. She's still adorable but she's getting shifty and secretive which is how I see Felicity going dark. She's not suddenly going to brood and scowl.

I agree with those who said that there could be chemistry there and they've left the door open. But to me it looks like a study in what Oliver dating Oliver would look like. Seriously Dinah is like a female Oliver! She was, imo, devoid of any personality of her own besides being Oliver with boobs! They did really well setting up the SHE’S EQUAL TO OLIVER jig.

The end scene was slightly more hopeful Oliver having a conversation with broody Oliver.

I'll be really interested to see how the non Olicity audience reacts to them. Was like watching paint dry! Imagine them in a relationship!

[Midnight Lullaby]

SA looked like I did when I was recovering from a nasty stomach bug during the whole episode. In the final scene the dialogue was super cheesy, she definitely tried to put some emotion in the scene so I wouldn't rule out the romantic route if they manage to squeeze a tiny bit of emotion out of SA. That looks like the difficult part at the moment.

They should have sent Felicity instead of Oliver to visit Diggle in the scenes with Chase..they could have said Oliver was busy and she was another close friend, which is true and less weird than the new girl having the same name of the mom of Oliver's two ex girlfriends. I'm a bit annoyed they mentioned she visited Dig but never showed it, especially since she (and Chase) was the only one that worked to get Dig out of jail.

[Mellowyellow]

I found the actress severely lacking in charm though. 

She's no Felicity, Iris, Kara, Alex, Caitlyn, Sara. Very different women who are all charming in their own way.

She came off as trying too hard. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I agree on that, but I also think that's the way they decided to write the character. But in the last scene I saw one human and one robot talking.

[bijoux]

I actually think JH did well in the opening scene, but the tough girl act throughout the rest of the episode didn't impress me. Unfortunately, I think there will be more of the latter than the former.

[themadman]

Am I the only one to want Rene to get an "accidental" arrow through his face? He's rude, grumpy and never doing what he's told. And listening to him calling Felicity "blondie" constantly gets on my nerves.

[bijoux]

Heaven help me, but I thought he was the only one with sense in this episode's A plot. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I zoned out during most of the A plot so I wouldn't know, LOL. But he got on my nerves consistently during the first half of the season.

[thuganomics85]

Well, then!  The impossible has happened.  The flashbacks are actually becoming my favorite about about this series.  That alone is shocking. But I'm really digging Talia and Lexa Doig, and I how it seems like she is the one who helps Oliver take the "monster" and channel him whenever he is fighting under the hood, so he can actually be somewhat normal outside of it.  Interesting.  And her training Yao Fei (now, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time!) was a nice reveal.  Curious to see them try and take on Kover.  Oliver taking on all the Russian thugs was fun, although it felt like they were trying to emulate John Wick or something in that moment.  And I think he had the unlimited ammo cheat going on.  That was a shit ton of bullets, without any reloading.

I did enjoy the stuff with Felicity reliving her hacker days, interacting with Rory, and the introduction of this Helix group.  Already suspicious of them.  Especially "Kojo Sledgehammer."  Oh, sure, she was goofy and acted like a younger Felicity, but that Kacy Rohl underneath those glasses!  No way will I ever trust her after Hannibal!  I'm on to you, Abigail Hobbs!

Alas, we had the A plot.  So, this Tina character is actually Dinah Drake, and is more or less going to be the new Black Canary.  Again, why should I care?  Oliver keeps talking up Laurel like she was the best of the best, but she wasn't even the best Black Canary: that will always go to Sara.  So, I just don't understand why Oliver is so into this and why he believes this is important to him getting a second chance.  Whatever, so she is here to stay and I guess join the geek squad.  Not sure what to make of her or Juliana Harkavy.  She seems to have the stunts down better then poor Katie Cassidy did and she isn't awful, but... kind of one note, I guess?  Then again, that could be the writing too.

And, yes, it was hilarious how Oliver and Rene dropped numerous bad guys, and Oliver FUCKING BLEW UP A HELICOPTER, and they were all "OMG!  She just murdered that meta-gangster!" like it was the most terrifying act ever.  Guys, come on!  It was great seeing Steve Bacic again; especially with Doig in it too.  I wonder who else from Andromeda can show up!

Diggle is already out on probation.  What is the point of this entire damn thing?!

Agree that Stephen Amell seemed off on this one.  Only times he seemed to have any spark was the flashbacks, and his brief exchanges with David Ramsey and Emily Bett Rickhards.  I have a feeling he really wants more of that, and isn't feeling this current plot.  Can't really blame him.  It's just too bad, because whatever issues the other DC shows have, at least Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, and especially the Legends crew seem to be having fun.

Speaking of other DC shows, the Captain Singh and "Barry" cameo was a hoot.  Also got a kick out of them bringing back the original news footage of the accelerator explosion, since the reporter was actually suppose to be Linda Park, until they ended up going with Malese Jow instead (at least that actress ended up playing a cool character on Marco Polo.)

A letdown compared to last week.  Oh, Arrow.  I know you are better than this! 

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Oliver taking on all the Russian thugs was fun, although it felt like they were trying to emulate John Wick or something in that moment.  

I only just remembered that SA mentioned a John Wick tribute or something in this episode. Was it the part where he used one of the goons as a body shield? I haven't watched the movie.

[LeighAn]

I think the only time Stephen put effort into his scenes this season was 5x02 5x08 end of 5x09 and 5x10 everything else has been pretty average. However the rest of the cast are as guilty of being average this season

[Hiveminder]

I think I've decided to head canon SA's acting this season as Oliver experiencing a depressive episode. 

[bijoux]

It doesn't take much to imagine it. He got what he wanted (being the mayor), only not since Laurel died and he lost Felicity due to his own stupidity.

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I think I've decided to head canon SA's acting this season as Oliver experiencing a depressive episode. 

My schmalsy head canon is that Oliver is just depressed, less enthused with life because Felicity is not in it anymore. I'm keeping that canon haha 

[ComicFan777]

I'm having a hard time understanding this recent Oliver with his combination of misguided optimism in trusting random strangers because of a promise he made to St. Laurel (who he didn't seem to care much about for the last 4 seasons) and defeatist attitude that he can kill or whatever because it's too late for him but not too late for others to change.  Oliver used to be broody, but this combination seems like an odd mix to me.

I was unimpressed by Tina - she was meh to me.  I was really bored with her storyline.  TBH, I would have been more interested in how they would have integrated the astronaut ninja into the team.  Felicity would have a scientist friend to geek out with, but at the same time she'd be a ninja, too -- such a cool combo in my book.

I really like Talia.  I am finally interested in flashbacks.

I liked the Felicity scenes and Rory works so well with Felicity.  "Mini" Felicity was amusing.  I am really interested in Felicity's dark arc.  

[dtissagirl]

Quote

I think I've decided to head canon SA's acting this season as Oliver experiencing a depressive episode. 

Low levels of serotonin can cause both depression and constipation.

Edited February 2, 2017 by dtissagirl

[johntfs]

Dinah Drake was okay if a bit one-note.  At least Stephen Amell looked a bit downcast instead of like he was standing near dog poo the way tended to look around Katie Cassidy.

Honestly, the whole "we must have a Black Canary" comes off a little creepy to me.  It's rapidly leaving "I want to honor Laurel's sacrifice" and approaching "It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again."

[apinknightmare]

41 minutes ago, ComicFan777 said:

I'm having a hard time understanding this recent Oliver with his combination of misguided optimism in trusting random strangers because of a promise he made to St. Laurel (who he didn't seem to care much about for the last 4 seasons) and defeatist attitude that he can kill or whatever because it's too late for him but not too late for others to change.  Oliver used to be broody, but this combination seems like an odd mix to me.

It is really weird. Like, he's actively trying to prove Prometheus wrong about ruining the lives of the people around him, and he's bringing more in! And yet he still thinks he's this hopeless killer because Prometheus said so after he killed Billy, but he seems to have already accepted that Billy's death wasn't his fault? And based on last week's ep when Felicity told BS that Oliver saw her as his chance at redemption - that carried over to Tinah, his second chance at it. So...how hopeless can he be if he's looking for redemption? 

Looks like he's constipated with a case of the plots. Deadly. 

[ComicFan777]

I think that if Tina doesn't live up to Oliver's expectations of St. Laurel, Oliver goes to Thea and says, "I made this stupid promise to Laurel...Could you come back on the team and be the black canary?  I promise I won't hit on you..."