S01.E13: Karma Chameleon

[CooperTV]

Quote

Wyatt convinces Rufus to steal the Lifeboat for an unauthorized mission to prevent Wyatt's wife's killer from ever being born. Lucy must cover for them in the present, as Agent Christopher discovers the ship is missing and Anthony Bruhl makes an alarming confession.

Promos

[methodwriter85]

I honestly thought we were never going to get an 80's episode because of that ill-defined "you can't go back to a time you existed in", but I guess if they go to 1981 or 1982, they should be okay? If the title is the indication of the year, it should be 1983. Lucy can't travel back to 1983, but I guess Wyatt and Rufus were born later than that? I do think it's pushing it to have Rufus have been born in the late 80's.

[Just Here]

Wait, they aren't going to Mississippi in 1870?

 

{Obligatory Karma Chameleon music video embed}

[methodwriter85]

In any event, Wyatt is finally in an era where his stubble works with the fashion of the time period!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 1/24/2017 at 8:50 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I honestly thought we were never going to get an 80's episode because of that ill-defined "you can't go back to a time you existed in", but I guess if they go to 1981 or 1982, they should be okay?

This was my exact thought process earlier.  I was thinking anywhere between '80 & '82 should be ok, as that would allow both W & R to be 35 or a little younger.  I could buy that either or both are 33ish, so anywhere between '80-'84 wouldn't bother me from a logical standpoint.

[legaleagle53]

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

This was my exact thought process earlier.  I was thinking anywhere between '80 & '82 should be ok, as that would allow both W & R to be 35 or a little younger.  I could buy that either or both are 33ish, so anywhere between '80-'84 wouldn't bother me from a logical standpoint.

That would put the year of their births at 1984, since Lucy is 33 in 2016-17, so she herself can't go back to 1983 (the year she was born).  Because 1983 is the year they're headed back to, Wyatt and Rufus really can't have been born any sooner than 1984, which would put their ages in 2016-17 at 32 at the most.

Edited January 28, 2017 by legaleagle53

[The Wild Sow]

Rufus stated that he was born in December 1983, so March was cutting it close for him.

[Randomosity]

It IS San Fran. It was driving me nuts. Thank you, Lucy for finally being explicit about it.

As predictable as the mess with Wyatt and no Jessica was, he still managed to tug at the heartstrings there at the end when he was adamant that she should be alive.

Same when Jiya was waxing poetic about how important it was to tell a loved one about the plan... Poor Lucy, all conflict-y over what that means regarding Wyatt.

As silly as a lot of this show is, I will really miss it if it doesn't get renewed.

[JackONeill]

Man, I hate to say it, but Wyatt screwed up from start to finish AND wound up killing an innocent man.

In the previews for next week, it looked like he might have been replaced. I'd find that odd, even with what I said above, given where we are in the season. But it does look like we're in for a sudden, mid-season course change.

[Bort]

Gee, Jessica is still dead. I'm SO SURPRISED. Contract killing, I gather. For what reason is yet to be determined.

[benteen]

If Wyatt knew anything about serial killers, he would have known that you NEVER trust serial killers.  They often confess to murders that they didn't commit, along with the ones that they did commit.  The guy in prison technically never confessed to Wyatt but just seemed to be playing mind games.  I like Wyatt a lot but he is really inept at all this.

That being said, I really did enjoy this episode.  I actually loved the scenes with Rufus and Wyatt hanging out in the 1980s bar.  That proved to be a lot of fun.  Surprised to see Anthony killed the way he was.  Am curious to know where this goes from here.

[shapeshifter]

I thought maybe Flynn's wife was the serial killer's victim instead of Wyatt's.

[maczero]

Pretty disturbing stuff with Wyatt.  I expected wacky hijinks with him and Rufus trying to keep the serial killer's parents from doing the nasty.  Certainly didn't expect serial killer's dad to end up dead at Wyatt's hands.  Even worse, his wife is still dead.

This was a good ep but it did have an inexcusable screw-up.  An ep with Matt Frewer, several 80s pop cultural references, and not one shout out to Max Headroom. 

Edited February 1, 2017 by maczero

[legaleagle53]

Just now, maczero said:

Pretty disturbing stuff with Wyatt.  I expected wacky hijinks with he and Rufus trying to keep the serial killer's parents from doing the nasty.  Certainly didn't expect serial killer's dad to end up dead at Wyatt's hands.  Even worse, his wife is still dead.

This was a good ep but it did have an inexcusable screw-up.  An ep with Matt Frewer and several 80s pop cultural references, and not one shout out to Max Headroom. 

It would have been the wrong year for that.  Max Headroom didn't debut until early 1984.

[maczero]

1 minute ago, legaleagle53 said:

It would have been the wrong year for that.  Max Headroom didn't debut until early 1984.

Weren't the Coca Cola ads before the tv show?

[Shanna Marie]

I loved Rufus in this one, his glee at the TV shows and the video games. And then it hit like a sucker punch after the 80s fun to see what happened with Wyatt. He managed to tug at the heartstrings when they were dragging him away.

I think Lucy's waking up in the middle of the night look may have been one of her most authentic costumes of the series. It's the rare case of a female character really looking like someone dragging out of bed when someone knocks in the middle of the night. Her bedhead was perfectly authentic, she didn't look like she was wearing a full face of makeup, she wore the kind of pajamas that people really wear, and they hung on her like she'd been sleeping in them.

I'm iffy on their portrayal of the 80s. Granted, I was a teen and in a small town at this time, so it may have been different for adults in a bigger city, but their 80s looked more like a retro sitcom version and very overdone, not like what I remembered.

I'm pretty sure that this was before Miami Vice, so Wyatt's scruff still wasn't period appropriate.

[KaveDweller]

24 minutes ago, The Wild Sow said:

Rufus stated that he was born in December 1983, so March was cutting it close for him.

Does that mean time he already exists includes being in utero?

So Flynn has tried to make the US lose WWII, kill other people along with Lincoln, prevent Texas from becoming a state, sabotage the moon landing, and, oh, yeah, make the US lose the Revolutionary War. But we better keep Rittenhouse from getting the time machine, because they'll really fuck up history.

Seriously, what could be worse than all that? The show needs to start being more explicit if they want me to believe Rittenhouse is the big bad. 

I felt really bad for Wyatt when he came back and found out Jessica was still dead. That poor guy that did nothing but conceive a serial killer died a pretty gruesome death.  It seems like pretty bad planning that Wyatt didn't account for the plane landing early. I know planes are known for being late, but it's kind of an important event. He should have been there an hour ahead of time.

Edited January 31, 2017 by KaveDweller

[thuganomics85]

Hey, Drew Roy!  Haven't seen you since Falling Skies!  Too bad his character had to die, but at least two women get to live now?  Should have known the serial killer was lying, and just wanted to fuck with Wyatt's head.  What I wonder is if Flynn had got false information or was he deliberately sending Wyatt on a wild goose chase?  From what we've seen of Flynn, I have to think it was the latter, so I wonder what he has to gain from this?  Did he know Wyatt might actually try something and take himself off the board?  Wouldn't he rather keep the guy can't seem to kill him?

Enjoyed the 1980s setting, since I actually remember some of the stuff back then (still too young to know how accurate it was, but enough that I remember Miss Pac-Man, etc.)  Of course, Wyatt and Rufus would end up failing at their tasks horribly.  Those two really aren't good at thinking on their feet, or adapting whenever things change.  They would not fare well as undercover agents at all!

As soon as Flynn brought up Emma being a pilot, I figured this meant Anthony was a goner, because there would be no need for two of them, and in network TV land, someone like Annie Wersching would always beat out someone like Matt Frewer!   At least he tried to redeem himself, even if it failed horribly.  Poor Rufus.  He really looked torn up about what happened.

Speaking of which, did he totally screw things up with Jiya, now?

Christopher and Mason are dropping any friendly pretext now.  It will be only a matter of time before one goes after the other.  Can't see both of them still being around come finale time.

Lucy finally confronts Daddy Rittenhouse, so we'll see where this goes.

[The Wild Sow]

2 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Does that mean time he already exists includes being in utero?

They haven't clarified that yet!  It's just 9 months (my middle child was born in December 1986, so I actually know this !)

[Randomosity]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think Lucy's waking up in the middle of the night look may have been one of her most authentic costumes of the series. It's the rare case of a female character really looking like someone dragging out of bed when someone knocks in the middle of the night. Her bedhead was perfectly authentic, she didn't look like she was wearing a full face of makeup, she wore the kind of pajamas that people really wear, and they hung on her like she'd been sleeping in them.

I agree - I was embarrassed on her behalf for being seen with that poofy hair :)  Do people actually wear hideous robes like that though? More authentic in my book (if she put the robe on to hide the thin pajamas from the person at the door) would have been to throw on a ginormous sweatshirt.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Randomosity

[shapeshifter]

Speaking of Miami Vice, when Wyatt and Rufus walked into the bar, I got a Crocket and Tubbs flash.

[possibilities]

I love Jiya. LOVE HER.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Rittenhouse is behind Jessica's murder, that explains why she's still dead - only done by someone else.  We all knew this trip would not end well, but (so far), its a little less catastrophic than it could have been.  I'm wondering, now, if Lucy's father isn't behind Jessica's murder because of the 'thing' going on between his daughter (Lucy) & Wyatt.  A seriously deluded attempt at making - and keeping - his daughter happy.   Far-fetched spec, but wouldn't put it past him.

Man, never quite as fun when you gotta cock-block yourself, in reference to Rufus & the flighty stewardess.  Which led to the hilarious:

"I'd rather hang out with you (the bartender)"
*awkward pause after realizing how it sounded*
"'Cause you're super-cool." 
*sips on the dacquiri*

So Wyatt is now a true murderer, even if only by accident.  And still wife-less afterward.

Man, the '80s really were super laid-back.  It seems the bar patrons spent as much time in the unattended kitchen as the actual bar.  Understood Wyatt being back there, to lie in wait to 'spring the trap', but the drunk douche stumbled around in there too.  I waited for the bartender to question why Rufus was in the kitchen to know about the flooding in the first place, but never happened.

Shoulda stayed chained to the pilot's seat, just out of view, Anthony.  Better there than dead.

Now that they've played their hand, re: Lucy knowing about her father/Rittenhouse and him calling her a legacy, here's hoping we get some actual substantial story instead of more of the same, ie just 'chasing Flynn/changing history while trying not to/wondering about Rittenhouse/etc'.  And while I'm on this, how about re-vising some past plot points;  like where's Lucy's mom been?  Did Lucy actually (finally) ditch the fiance or just still ignoring him?   I don't need significant portions of time devoted to answering these kinds of things, but a mention from time to time wouldn't be remiss.

[methodwriter85]

Someone really likes Human League. I heard "Don't You Want Me" and "Fascination."

I honestly thought that the twist was going to be that Drew Roy wasn't the father, but Rapey Airport Guy wound up raping her after Drew Roy and her were done with their hook-up. She then told everybody that Drew Roy was the father rather than admitting she got raped.

How exactly do they bring Wyatt back from this? I really got to wonder how they would get Wyatt back on the team after this. (Not that it matter- this show's done in three episodes.)

Edited January 31, 2017 by methodwriter85

[legaleagle53]

31 minutes ago, maczero said:

Weren't the Coca Cola ads before the tv show?

Nope.  Those didn't start until 1986, after the "New Coke" fiasco.  Max reintroduced "classic" Coca-Cola.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

You know what I think would be really cool, have the team go back a time that is before they were born, but not too much and then have someone they met there meet them again in present time.  A "you seem really familiar to me" type of moment.

That wouldn't present a paradox-type problem, would it, on this show and its TT rules? 
[This type of thing has occurred on 12 Monkeys, for reference]

[Randomosity]

11 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Rittenhouse is behind Jessica's murder, that explains why she's still dead - only done by someone else. 

This is exactly what I thought as well.

11 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

I honestly thought that the twist was going to be that Drew Roy wasn't the father, but Rapey Airport Guy wound up raping her after Drew Roy and her were done with their hook-up. She then told everybody that Drew Roy was the father rather than admitting she got raped.

I kept wondering what his real purpose for being there was too. I even thought for half a second that he (or something/someone else there) might have something to do with Lucy or Amy or something (albeit with no real explanation for how that could be possible).

[benteen]

Flynn's plan is literally worse all the time and Rittenhouse ain't much better with it. 

All Wyatt needed to do was knock that guy out and kick him in the balls.  But he can't even do that right.

[Artsda]

So he saved 2 lives, took 1 life and his wife is still dead? Someone had to have paid the convicted killer to confess.

[phalange]

Great opening scene with Lucy and Wyatt. Even though she could've been in serious trouble, and even with her starting to realize she has feelings for Wyatt, she was still ready to drop everything to go help him save Jessica. Thanks to Lucy and Jiya's conversation, Jiya is definitely aware of how Lucy feels. And poor Jiya, realizing that Wyatt told Lucy but Rufus didn't bother to tell her. 

Even though I expected Wyatt's plan to fail, it was still terribly sad to see him there at the end, being dragged away while insisting that Jessica had to be alive. He truly believed she would be there. Since the other two women are alive, I'm guessing Jessica's killer is Rittenhouse-affiliated, and I wouldn't be surprised if Lucy's creepy father had something to do with it.

I loved Lucy and Agent Christopher working together, and Agent Christopher having no time for Mason's bullshit. 

So that was, overall, a pretty awful day for everyone. Wyatt was responsible for someone's death and didn't even get Jessica back. Lucy found out her dad is part of an organization trying to destroy the country. Anthony died and Rufus lost his friend. Jiya realized her boyfriend lied to her. Looks like everyone could use that banana daiquiri right about now.

[green]

Again, people CAN go back to a time they were alive in.  They just can't meet themselves there without pretty bad things happening to them.  Rufus said that twice and some people posted his quotes in the last episode's thread.  And it has already been down twice by the late, lamented Anthony who dies in the current time but not in the two times he was in but his double was elsewhere.  To wit, 1969 (moon landing) and 1972 or 1973 (Watergate).

In other news Wyatt looks in the mirror and sees Flynn staring back at him.  Two idiot peas in a pod.

[methodwriter85]

But then in this episode, Rufus clearly says that it's cutting it for him to be in 1983 because he was born in December of that year. Not that his family is from that area, but that he was born during this year.

I honestly just think the writers didn't think about Anthony when they made up the rule. Maybe he got stranded for like twenty years on his trip, and he was really born in like 1976 or something. But with three episodes left, I can't see them addressing it.

Edited January 31, 2017 by methodwriter85

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Not that he deserved to die, but I just stopped and realized how much of a shitty person and brother that bartender was.

He spent parts of the episode getting phone calls from his sister, and then explained that she lived alone with a kid and was having flooding problems - in the middle of a possible tornado - but instead of going to make sure everything's alright with his family, he ignores all else but the attractive stewardess he wants to slip the sausage [& man-naise] to. 

Before rebuttals, yes I know, the bar was right next to (if not actually part of) the TEI, but just personally speaking, the safety and well-being of my sister and her kid(s) - in the present situation - is most likely going to prevent my sex drive getting and/or staying in overdrive.  Is it possible the tornado warning had been called off by the time the 'night' at the bar ended?  If so, that's even worse.  IE, didn't need to worry about being caught in it if went to check on the family. 

Maybe the sister called back and told him things were fine [had help from a neighbor, etc].  But without explanation, he's left looking like a heel.

[bros402]

1. I did not think this took place in San Francisco at all. If they had said they were on the west coast, I would've thought Seattle, if anything - shows usually portray SF as hilly... or sunny.

2. Since Lucy didn't travel this time, were her memories modified for this, or for all of the past things? Does traveling in the previous episodes protect her from her memories of those events changing?

[Randomosity]

2 hours ago, bros402 said:

1. I did not think this took place in San Francisco at all. If they had said they were on the west coast, I would've thought Seattle, if anything - shows usually portray SF as hilly... or sunny.

2. Since Lucy didn't travel this time, were her memories modified for this, or for all of the past things? Does traveling in the previous episodes protect her from her memories of those events changing?

I could buy the city scenes they showed in this ep as SF. Weren't they sunny-ish? And before that, there'd been almost no reference to where they were, visual or otherwise. I believe Wyatt mentioned Palo Alto once, but that's all I'd caught. (That said, SF is famous for being foggy. And I've spent many a day dodging DOWNPOURS in SF too...)

I also wondered about Lucy's memories/knowledge when the lifeboat arrived back. I don't think she's 'protected' in any way. She told Wyatt that Jessica was 'still' dead, and obviously everyone was there to arrest him, so not enough changed to have altered why any of them that remained in the present were there. Even when Lucy travels with them, everyone back in the present still has intact memories about why the time traveling happened (in this case to save Jessica), so I'd imagine the only thing that changed about Lucy's knowledge this time would be the butterfly-effect type things related to one guy being dead, two women being alive, a killer not existing, and whatever other interactions might have been created or missed. Which, given that it's only been 34 years (as compared to on the scale of 100s) and that these were not influential historical figures, there probably isn't a whole lot that changed that anyone would have noticed.

[maczero]

5 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Nope.  Those didn't start until 1986, after the "New Coke" fiasco.  Max reintroduced "classic" Coca-Cola.

For some reason, I knew of Max Headroom before he had a TV show.  Did he do spots on MTV or something before he had a series?

[wanderingstar]

This ep just cemented my dislike for Wyatt. His storyline was pretty predictable, so I didn't enjoy it much. Rufus was the only saving grace of that plot.

[legaleagle53]

59 minutes ago, maczero said:

For some reason, I knew of Max Headroom before he had a TV show.  Did he do spots on MTV or something before he had a series?

Probably.  But not until 1985 at the earliest.  Max Headroom

[BooksRule]

Quote

Hey, Drew Roy!  Haven't seen you since Falling Skies! 

Thank you!  I was getting to look up the episode on imdb, because I couldn't remember where I knew that actor from.  

[Randomosity]

Ha. Because I was both curious about the show's setting and also a map dork, I froze the screen while they were 'tracking' Lucy. While she was first walking down a city block, the tracker had her on highway 280 in the middle of NOT the city, way south of SF, closer to Palo Alto. Then when they lost her signal, the map was back in SF, showing Market/Mission/downtown/civic center. Then when it blinked back on, it was on the highway again, but a good chunk further north in San Bruno, near the airport. How hard would it have been to just stay on the downtown map? Jeez :P

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I think this show differs from 12 Monkeys, in that the travelers are protected from changes - 'immune' basically - both physically and mentally. 

Spoiler

Whereas in 12M, if something very significant to the timeline changes, the travelers feel the effects in a physical fashion [even right at the exact moment of change, and they are standing right there watching the change occur as it happens].   Also its been known that non-travelers can witness the effects of the change to the timeline in their current time.  Great instance to this was shown during a S2 episode.

I think Lucy knowing that Jessica was still dead was not a result of her own memories/knowledge 're-writing' itself to conform to the changes wrought by Wyatt&Logan's trip, but because she had looked at info from a database.  Noticeably indicated when Rufus grabbed the tablet she was holding and backing her up, saying the other two women were alive but Jessica was still dead.

Edited January 31, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[JackONeill]

Miami Vice started in 1984.

 My impression is that TPTB are banking on a second season. True, the network can just cancel it without the story being resolved. (As we know, this happens more often than not. Thank you networks!!!)

Though there's been speculation for a handful of weeks (months?) that this show will BE cancelled, TPTB don't seem to be angling for a resolution this season. In fact, last night's show seems to suggest a reset, if you will.

it seemed to suggest that Rittenhouse might not be all that bad, and that Flynn is actually worse than Rittenhouse (even tho he's only one person)(I mean, what?). And now Daddy has come forward to Lucy, so there's that. I think as many of us have speculated, there is a way to save this show AND make it better. They just need to refocus it.

But are the characters too damaged. Flynn, who originally might have turned out good, has killed too many people. Lucy has killed. Rufus has killed. Wyatt has killed. Who IS the true bad guy? And why is this happening?

And what of the sister? And what of Wyatt's wife? And the very first question I ever asked about this series, what is going on?

I did like Lucy's face-off with Denise. Things are splintering, aren't they?

[legaleagle53]

10 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

But are the characters too damaged. Flynn, who originally might have turned out good, has killed too many people. Lucy has killed. Rufus has killed. Wyatt has killed. Who IS the true bad guy? And why is this happening?

With the exception of Joel last night, Wyatt has hitherto only killed in "kill or be killed" situations.  Joel at worst is involuntary manslaughter, not murder, since Wyatt didn't intend for him to die, just for him not to hook up with the mother of the man who claimed to have killed Jessica.  Joel's death was purely an accident.  And Rufus also killed in self-defense.  As for Lucy, she did it to restore the timeline and to keep Jesse James from killing again (come on, does anyone seriously think he wouldn't eventually have escaped and started killing again?). Is it traumatic for them?  Of course.  But I don't think that that necessarily translates to permanent damage.

Edited January 31, 2017 by legaleagle53

[JackONeill]

But Wyatt will have to (should have to) pay the consequences for what happened last night, if not legally, than ethically. Forget the bigger picture, but Rufus made Wyatt swear at least a couple of times that Wyatt wouldn't hurt anyone. If Wyatt hadn't sworn, perhaps Rufus wouldn't have taken him back!?! 

True, it was an accident...but it happened. That would/should play on your mind, even if you're Special Ops. And, as a kicker, Wyatt's wife is still dead. He's still -- when all his cards are on the table -- failed, and failed miserably by "killing" someone else AND by potentially ruining his relationship with Rufus. (Yes, I think I heard Rufus at the end telling people it was an accident. Still...)

And, now, what of Wyatt? Of the three of them, Wyatt, given his role and background, has more direct commitment to Homeland Security. He was almost replaced once already. And now he has stolen the machine. They can't handwave that away.

[Netfoot]

9 hours ago, JackONeill said:

AND wound up killing an innocent man.

Not really innocent, seeing as he did kill two other women.  Not giving Wyatt my approval.  Just saying...

9 hours ago, benteen said:

Surprised to see Anthony killed the way he was. 

Sorry, but when Flynn spoke to Emma Whitmore and said "So, do you still remember how to pilot it?"  I responded with "Bye-bye, Anthony!"

9 hours ago, maczero said:

Certainly didn't expect serial killer's dad to end up dead at Wyatt's hands.

The guy fell and hit his head.  Sure, Wyatt takes some blame for that by chasing him, but I don't know if it's fair to say "at Wyatt's hands."

7 hours ago, Artsda said:

Someone had to have paid the convicted killer to confess.

IIRC, he never confessed to the murder of Wyatt's wife.  Flynn told Wyatt it was him, and when Wyatt asked him in prison, he broadly hinted that he was her killer.  Obviously, he was lying, and taking credit for a murder he never committed.  Maybe just to screw with Wyatt's head.

12 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Is it traumatic for them?  Of course.  But I don't think that that necessarily translates to permanent damage.

So, wait.  If you kill someone, you will be permanently "damaged?"  Gee, I hope nobody tells the cops and soldiers of the world, who from time to time must take life in service to their community/country.  I mean, I can see that a period of emotional distress is possible, but I think so far our Three Stooges can legitimately justify their actions to date.

8 hours ago, benteen said:

All Wyatt needed to do was knock that guy out and kick him in the balls.  But he can't even do that right.

He could have walked into the bar, shot the guy in the leg (near to the Wedding Tackle, if possible), and walked back out again.  Episode over in 3 minutes. add 30 seconds for him to call an ambulance first.  He could have brought along a .22 with hardball ammo, specifically for the job.  .22 Short, even.  

And why did the cop draw on Wyatt?  Because he noticed Wyatt was carrying?  You know how many people have carry permits?  

[JackONeill]

9 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Not really innocent, seeing as he did kill two other women.  Not giving Wyatt my approval.  Just saying...

 

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that this was the father of the supposed serial killer. If I'm correct, then he may have been responsible for only some, or none, of the genes that caused his son to want to kill women (maybe the Genoese came from the mother, or some distant relative, or, maybe, the guy was just a nut and it had nothing to do with the parents. 

To me, that makes this man far from being someone worthy of death via sidewalk. Plus, given that Wyatt's wife was still dead makes me question Flynn's contention about the serial killer's confession. And, yes, Wyatt questioned the serial killer, but I wS far from impressed by the, quote-unquote, confession. I would have proceeded with extreme caution, and I would have told someone other than Lucy and Rufus.

And I happen to think that unless you're a comic book hero or a socio-path, if you happen to be responsible for someone's death, you're going to feel that for some time, ESPECIALLY a death that should have never happened. Even cops and soldiers, when they kill in the line of duty, feel something. And for some, it's horrendous what they feel. 

[Netfoot]

13 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

My understanding, and I may be wrong, is that this was the father of the supposed serial killer.

You are correct; I forgot about that.  My error!

14 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Even cops and soldiers, when they kill in the line of duty, feel something. And for some, it's horrendous what they feel. 

I don't doubt it, but I don't know that "damaged" is the word I would use.  

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

So Flynn has tried to make the US lose WWII, kill other people along with Lincoln, prevent Texas from becoming a state, sabotage the moon landing, and, oh, yeah, make the US lose the Revolutionary War. But we better keep Rittenhouse from getting the time machine, because they'll really fuck up history.

This. I was waiting with anticipation to see what was so bad that Doc would blow up the DeLorean, and literally my first response was "So, you mean what Flynn's been doing all along?"

This is where they really shot themselves in the foot by not showing us true consequences in the present (other than Lucy's sister, an emotional consequence, but on a historical scale, nothing much). If each show had shown how history was being changed - for the worse, but on a minor scale - by one man - then having a global conspiracy set out to it on a large scale would have more impact. Mostly they've showed us that most changes don't have a lot of impact, that history, to quote Stephen King - is obdurate.

28 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

And why did the cop draw on Wyatt?  Because he noticed Wyatt was carrying?  You know how many people have carry permits?  

Not in 1983 - but even now I would imagine a cop would draw on anyone with a hidden gun in that kind of a situation - making the assumption he had a carry permit could be an assumption that gets him killed.

A few nitpicks. What's with these guys not giving themselves some margin of error? Even if flights don't often arrive early, if you're traveling (on foot, getting a taxi?) from a barn somewhere near-ish, you can't count on how long it's going to take to get there. I was raised in the military, where I was taught that getting there 5 minutes early is late. So it's a pet peeve.

Peeve number two. Denise leaves the room with her secret file just sitting there unattended, leaving Mr. Curiosity behind. And it was just sitting on the floor of the car as well). Does not seem to be anything a woman in her business would do.

Also - Wyatt's research showed everything BUT a tornado (or watch). Seems like something the biographers, reporters, couldn't resist commenting on - a serial killer conceived in a tornado. Very Jumping Jack Flash.

[JackONeill]

Just now, Netfoot said:

You are correct; I forgot about that.  My error!

I don't doubt it, but I don't know that "damaged" is the word I would use.  

I certainly didn't mean to imply that all people were damaged. But some certainly were/are, witness the number of PTSD cases that include soldiers, cops and even doctors/nurses/emergency trauma personnel. Again some, not all.

[Sandman]

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Hey, Drew Roy!  Haven't seen you since Falling Skies!  Too bad his character had to die, but at least two women get to live now?  Should have known the serial killer was lying, and just wanted to fuck with Wyatt's head.

I don't think he was lying; I think he was a contract killer, easily replaced (I'm presuming by Rittenhouse).

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

The guy fell and hit his head.  Sure, Wyatt takes some blame for that by chasing him, but I don't know if it's fair to say "at Wyatt's hands."

It's not murder, but it is an accident in which Wyatt bears some responsibility -- moral if not legal. Certainly Wyatt feels responsible.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Sandman