S02.E12: Mirror, Mirror

[WendyCR72]

A break before this one airs:

Dr. Manning and Dr. Charles treat a teenage girl with a rapidly changing set of symptoms that has everyone perplexed. Dr. Choi and medical student Jeff Clark encounter a 19 year-old tough guy who is brought into the hospital in severe distress. Once they establish the cause of the pain, the situation quickly turns dangerous and a resolved Dr. Reese does her best to help. Elsewhere, Dr. Latham makes a big admission to Dr. Rhodes while Dr. Halstead must deal with a difficult case that is further complicated by Dr. Stohl, who has a camera crew following him around to shoot a promotional video spotlighting the hospital.

[Sandman]

All I could think when Dr. Livingston Dolt was running around with his little video crew, quoting Cicero, was 'Why is he grey? He's a grey-faced person.'

That guy ain't right.

[BooksRule]

Was Dr. Rhodes actually surprised to hear that Dr. Latham had been diagnosed with Asperger's, or was he just surprised that Latham admitted it to him out loud?  I figured that everyone knew that Latham was autistic or had Asperger's from how he acted.  I guessed it was something like that the first time he showed up on screen.

The whole gun thing was icky.  I knew it was going to fire, but I still jumped when it did.

Dr. Charles is still my favorite.  I love how he works with the patients (but Dr. Reese is beginning to annoy--she's so earnest and serious).

[Fireball]

Sooo Natalie is sad about breaking up with Jeff.... I really can't bring myself to care or have any sympathy.

Dr. Reese and her therapy is boring. I don't remember her seeming like she needed therapy last season.

[Fireball]

1 hour ago, BooksRule said:

Was Dr. Rhodes actually surprised to hear that Dr. Latham had been diagnosed with Asperger's, or was he just surprised that Latham admitted it to him out loud?  I figured that everyone knew that Latham was autistic or had Asperger's from how he acted.  I guessed it was something like that the first time he showed up on screen.

I think Rhodes was surprised that Dr. Latham admitted it.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, BooksRule said:

Was Dr. Rhodes actually surprised to hear that Dr. Latham had been diagnosed with Asperger's, or was he just surprised that Latham admitted it to him out loud?  I figured that everyone knew that Latham was autistic or had Asperger's from how he acted.  I guessed it was something like that the first time he showed up on screen.

Probably the former? I mean, to be fair, I had no idea about Latham being on the autism spectrum; I just thought he was weird for a while there. It could be the latter, though.

I gotta admit; if I was a doctor and suddenly a camera crew was being shoved into my patient's room without warning, I'd kick them all out, boss be damned. I guess that's why I'm not a doctor. 

With the last couple of episodes with minimal Manning, I was not happy seeing more of her. She's become the new Will for me this season. 

That gun going off did startle me a bit. Good thing Dr. Fire didn't get hurt badly. 

[Netfoot]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

That gun going off did startle me a bit.

I was very disappointed.  Where was the Wile E. Coyote smoke coming out of that guy's ears?  

Jokes aside, if a firearm were to be discharged up someones bum like that, I'd have expected them to suffer major injuries.  

[starri]

3 hours ago, Fireball said:

Dr. Reese and her therapy is boring. I don't remember her seeming like she needed therapy last season.

Honestly, I think any resident, especially a new intern, should be talking to someone once in a while.

I guess I'm an outlier because I really liked the episode.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Yeah, and was the gun guy saying to Reese go away, I like having a gun in my bum? Because then he wouldn't need therapy, I guess....

I can't stand new doctor know-it-all. How about giving the characters we already know have a couple of storylines instead, Show? I especially hate the awkward videotaping plot device--it's like a shark-jumping moment for me. And sure, no HIPAA issues with patients or stuff in the background. 

Weird characters like Latham used to be allowed to be just weird--he doesn't necessarily have an autism spectrum disorder, but bandwagon, so he does. 

[starri]

12 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Weird characters like Latham used to be allowed to be just weird--he doesn't necessarily have an autism spectrum disorder, but bandwagon, so he does. 

But they've kind of played him as having ASD since he was introduced.  This didn't seem to be that strange, and aside from the performance being great, it's a bit more nuanced that we usually see on TV.  Usually they don't show someone that high-functioning, unless it's for "laughs" like on Big Bang Theory.

[Fireball]

18 minutes ago, starri said:

Honestly, I think any resident, especially a new intern, should be talking to someone once in a while.

I guess I'm an outlier because I really liked the episode.

Oh I liked the episode; I guess I just don't have a lot to say about it and I'm in a snarking mood today.

Reese and the therapy I just don't have any interest in it and it feels like all of a sudden Reese "has issues" that she needs therapy for. Not that there's anything wrong with needing to talk through stuff I just found the scenes boring.

[Poohbear617]

What happened with the poor man who had the sinus infection that turned deadly? I was so moved by his story. His gratefulness to Dr Halstead when he believed him after dr. Price tried to discharge him basically throwing him out of the er. Then when he said he worked right across the street for 20 years without notice and he had no family there with him for support him.and agreeing to possibly die in the OR with a camera crew to show any record of his life.  I guess I wanted to see Halstead holding his hand thru surgery or at least show he survived.

[Poohbear617]

Dr Stohl. Not dr. Price. Sorry for mistake above.

[MakeMeLaugh]

4 minutes ago, Poohbear617 said:

What happened with the poor man who had the sinus infection that turned deadly? I was so moved by his story. His gratefulness to Dr Halstead when he believed him after dr. Price tried to discharge him basically throwing him out of the er. Then when he said he worked right across the street for 20 years without notice and he had no family there with him for support him.and agreeing to possibly die in the OR with a camera crew to show any record of his life.  I guess I wanted to see Halstead holding his hand thru surgery or at least show he survived.

Yes! Thanks for mentioning this--his being okay that Halstead never even noticed him at the parking lot was for me the most poignant scene on this entire series. 

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, starri said:

But they've kind of played him as having ASD since he was introduced.  This didn't seem to be that strange, and aside from the performance being great, it's a bit more nuanced that we usually see on TV.

I'm one who was surprised to learn that Latham was actually on the spectrum; I didn't get that from the character's first few appearances. I would venture to say that it's not widely known (or even presumed) about him around the hospital, in part because I think Beth's pent-up reaction to "that ingrate" would have been different had she been aware of the cause of his detached demeanor. I could be wrong.

I too found the idea that Mr. Mikulski just wanted to be remembered for something moving and poignant. I thought this episode was enjoyable -- except that I'm now heartily sick of Stohl, soulless, grey little kobold that he is. Please go away now, Dr. Livingston Dolt.

[juliet73]

I can't believe it took this long to diagnose Latham. Especially since he's a doctor and works with other doctors/nurses all the time!   I knew within a few minutes that he was on the spectrum.  There is another great surgeon that is on periodically (I think he was on last week) who has a bad bedside manner, he's  impatient and rude, etc. He doesn't have Asbergers, he's just a dick. You can definitely see the difference between the two of them even though have the same characteristics. 

[izabella]

8 hours ago, Sandman said:

I'm one who was surprised to learn that Latham was actually on the spectrum; I didn't get that from the character's first few appearances. I would venture to say that it's not widely known (or even presumed) about him around the hospital, in part because I think Beth's pent-up reaction to "that ingrate" would have been different had she been aware of the cause of his detached demeanor. I could be wrong.

Did she say she's been working with him for 7 years?  And that he blows up at her like that often?  I can see how 7 years of getting yelled at like that would cause a person to lose it once, even if they did know.   As she said, he threw a tray at her head. A tray of sharp scalpels and things.  She's a professional, a colleague he relies on, and a human with feelings, not his mother or his doctor.  And he likely doesn't think to thank her for her skilled assistance, so that adds to it.  Thinking about it, I'm surprised she hasn't gotten fed up before.

Edited February 4, 2017 by izabella

[Sandman]

Sorry -- I was unclear: I think Beth had an absolute right to lose her cool. It's not the fact of her losing her patience after seven years (and she definitely said that) that I think might have been different, but I think another word than "ingrate" might have come to mind. But, as I say, I could be wrong about how much she knows about his diagnosis.

I certainly had the impression that the end of the "mirror" operation was the first time it ever occurred to Latham to thank Beth for her contribution.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Sandman

[spunky]

Can Dr. Stohl the troll, please go away? He's even more annoying than first season Will and Natalie combined. Can someone accidentally shock him with the paddles? What hospital would violate HIPPA by allowing a camera crew to invade patients privacy. That girl's mother has to be the most high strung woman in the state of Illinois. I knew Dr. Latham was on the autism spectrum from the get. How is it that Beth has worked with him for seven years and she never thought of it, she just thinks he's an ingrate. If she was around him for that long by now she should have figured that he does not know how to control his out bursts due to a neurological condition.  Natalie being all sad because she broke up with Jeff for the dumbest reason, did nothing for me. I do like the fact that Jeff is not giving her the time of day. The gun up the rectum, storyline high lights the fact that some cultures do not speak of or understand mental illness. The fact that he was willing to go to prison rather than admit he needed help spoke volumes.  I'm happy Jeff was not seriously injured by the bullet.

[Netfoot]

27 minutes ago, spunky said:

The gun up the rectum, storyline high lights the fact that some cultures do not speak of or understand mental illness. The fact that he was willing to go to prison rather than admit he needed help spoke volumes.  I'm happy Jeff was not seriously injured by the bullet.

Did they ever give a real explanation for his choice of holster?  The business of smuggling it into prison for his cousin was debunked.  So, what explanation are we supposed to expect?  Was he assaulted by an enemy?  Was it self-inflicted, and if so, why?  

Because the assumption of mental illness seems to imply an explanation that I never caught.  

[Lady Calypso]

55 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Did they ever give a real explanation for his choice of holster?  The business of smuggling it into prison for his cousin was debunked.  So, what explanation are we supposed to expect?  Was he assaulted by an enemy?  Was it self-inflicted, and if so, why?  

They never said it outright, but it was implied that the kid did it to himself. Sarah noticed self inflicted wounds on his arms, so when she confronted him about it, he said that he'd rather go to jail than be known as a freak. So it was self-inflicted, and he didn't want his father to know about his secret so he rather let his father think he was a criminal.

But they never said why he chose a gun, of all things. Seriously, kid's stupid. 

[Netfoot]

24 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But they never said why he chose a gun, of all things. Seriously, kid's stupid.

Or why he made sure it was loaded, and cocked!  Seriously stupid.

[Sandman]

The part I really didn't understand was (and how, really) his father convinced the kid to revoke consent to remove the gun. Papi says "Did you tell them it was okay to take it out?" and the kid changes his mind! What purpose does that serve? Does the father think that the kid won't go to jail if he's still, uh, concealing the evidence? Does he lose badass points if he undergoes an operation "down there"? I mean, what the hell?

Edited February 4, 2017 by Sandman

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, Sandman said:

I mean, what the hell?

Well sooner or later, it's gonna come out, like a cork from a bottle, isn't it?  

Edited February 5, 2017 by Netfoot
s/Sell/Well/

[LittleIggy]

On 2/3/2017 at 9:09 AM, BooksRule said:

Was Dr. Rhodes actually surprised to hear that Dr. Latham had been diagnosed with Asperger's, or was he just surprised that Latham admitted it to him out loud?  I figured that everyone knew that Latham was autistic or had Asperger's from how he acted.  I guessed it was something like that the first time he showed up on screen.

The whole gun thing was icky.  I knew it was going to fire, but I still jumped when it did.

Dr. Charles is still my favorite.  I love how he works with the patients (but Dr. Reese is beginning to annoy--she's so earnest and serious).

The way I saw it, Dr. Rhodes was like, "Yeah, tell me something I didn't already know" when Dr. Latham told him that.

I screamed when the gun went off. I'm still wondering why the kid shoved a gun up his ass.

The guy with the fungus in his brain (how did that get there? Sounds like something from "Monsters Inside Me") made me tear up.

[starri]

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

The guy with the fungus in his brain (how did that get there? Sounds like something from "Monsters Inside Me") made me tear up.

The spores are inhaled and start growing in the sinuses, and they eventually invade through the skull.

[statsgirl]

I think one of the best things this show has done is to show Latham as a high-functioning Asperger's and how it affects both him and the people around him.  It's not easy on either side.*

When he blew up, I thought it was going to be a side effect of the deep brain stimulation he was getting for treatment though.  That would have brought in the "what do you do when the treatment that is making you better is also hurting  you?" issues.  A lot of people on medication have to deal with that dilemma but I've never seen it on television.  (In my case, it was the anti-cancer drugs ruining the quality of life.)

In other (non) news, Manning is still the worst both as a doctor and as a person.  I was watching with my daughter and she caught the fact that the girl was mirroring as soon as she said that now she had a headache and not a stomach ache.  Manning appears to have zero observational skills on top of being judgemental.

On the optimistic side, I"m hoping that Manning regretting dumping Jeff means that the EPs are considering letting Halstead staying with the awesome Dr. Nina and be redeemed.

On 2017-02-03 at 0:35 PM, starri said:

Honestly, I think any resident, especially a new intern, should be talking to someone once in a while.

It would make for better doctors.  I don't care what theory of therapist you are, you should have to go through therapy of your own first 1. to know what it's like when you can see through your therapist's gimmicks and 2. to figure out your own biases and countertransference issues before they hurt someone else.

Or any kind of doctor really.  My father had been practicing for 3 decades when a heart attack landed him in the hospital and he saw a whole new world. He came out of it saying that every doctor should have to spend 2 weeks as a patient.

 

* I'm currently watching The A Word which is about the effects on a family when a 5 year old boy is diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder (Christopher Eccleston (Dr. Who) plays the grandfather) and I highly recommend it.

[shksabelle]

I liked Sarah as the nerdy pathologist. Do not like Dr. I've been a Psych resident for three months and can recognize every obscure disorder known. 

[spunky]

On 2/4/2017 at 8:26 AM, Netfoot said:

Did they ever give a real explanation for his choice of holster?  The business of smuggling it into prison for his cousin was debunked.  So, what explanation are we supposed to expect?  Was he assaulted by an enemy?  Was it self-inflicted, and if so, why?  

Because the assumption of mental illness seems to imply an explanation that I never caught.  

The self inflicted wounds that Sarah noticed, and him preferring to go to jail rather than being called a "freak" were the implications of some sort of mental illness. 

[Netfoot]

To hear people talk, everyone is suffering from mental illness, because everyone needs therapy!

[Xantar]

On 2/5/2017 at 7:07 PM, Netfoot said:

To hear people talk, everyone is suffering from mental illness, because everyone needs therapy!

You do not have to be suffering from a mental illness to benefit from therapy. Lots of people undergo short-term therapy after a tragedy, for example. I know someone who discovered that she is bisexual and saw a therapist for a few months to adjust to her new reality. I know someone else who needed therapy to help her separate from abusive family members. None of those people were suffering from anything you would find in the DSM-V; they just found it useful to have a disinterested observer reflect their issues back at them and help them sort through their emotions.

On 2/3/2017 at 0:58 PM, Poohbear617 said:

What happened with the poor man who had the sinus infection that turned deadly? 

I thought I heard a conversation in which they said that he is essentially doomed. I took his last scene to mean that everybody fully expected him to die.

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, Xantar said:

None of those people were suffering from anything you would find in the DSM-V; they just found it useful to have a disinterested observer reflect their issues back at them and help them sort through their emotions.

I don't believe I know anyone who ever required the services of a therapist.  Ever.  

[spunky]

On 2/7/2017 at 4:09 PM, Netfoot said:

I don't believe I know anyone who ever required the services of a therapist.  Ever.  

People who speak to a therapist usually don't disclose that information for fear of judgement. If they do disclose that information, it's with someone who is supportive and empathetic. You don't need a DSM-V diagnosis in order to seek the assistance of a therapist.

[starri]

On 2/7/2017 at 4:09 PM, Netfoot said:

I don't believe I know anyone who ever required the services of a therapist.  Ever.  

You don't know anyone who's told you they've seen a therapist.  I guarantee you know someone who's seen one.

Sort of like what it was like before gay people started coming out.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Quote

I too found the idea that Mr. Mikulski just wanted to be remembered for something moving and poignant.

I enjoyed this story, which is the kind of story that ER did so well in so many different ways.

I like Dr. Latham and loved Dr. Sarcani on Royal Pains, who also was on the spectrum.  I'd love for that character to either join Chicago Med or have his own show!

Cannot stand Dr. Reese.  Just go AWAY.  I'd take Dr. Manning over her any day.

[statsgirl]

On 2017-02-07 at 4:09 PM, Netfoot said:

I don't believe I know anyone who ever required the services of a therapist.  Ever.  

You may not know anyone who has seen a therapist, but I guarantee you know more than one person who needs one.

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I guarantee you know more than one person who needs one.

Don't think so.

[SnarkySheep]

Quote

I can see how 7 years of getting yelled at like that would cause a person to lose it once, even if they did know.   As she said, he threw a tray at her head. A tray of sharp scalpels and things.  She's a professional, a colleague he relies on, and a human with feelings, not his mother or his doctor. 

My beef was that we didn't see any sort of consequences for Latham. I get that they're trying to show his various outbursts are the result of his Asperger's; but sorry, that doesn't excuse it. He's supposed to be a professional. In NO workplace is it acceptable to throw things at your colleagues! And heaven knows we've seen Goodwin go after Halstead for every little thing (even in this episode she said they'd "have a little talk" later). Yet something so major by Latham and we see nothing. What would happen if some patient suddenly angered him and he threw a tray at him/her? Major lawsuit just waiting to happen.

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

In NO workplace is it acceptable to throw things at your colleagues!

Cricket Pitch.  Just saying.  

[Chas411]

On 3 February 2017 at 5:58 PM, Poohbear617 said:

What happened with the poor man who had the sinus infection that turned deadly? I was so moved by his story. His gratefulness to Dr Halstead when he believed him after dr. Price tried to discharge him basically throwing him out of the er. Then when he said he worked right across the street for 20 years without notice and he had no family there with him for support him.and agreeing to possibly die in the OR with a camera crew to show any record of his life.  I guess I wanted to see Halstead holding his hand thru surgery or at least show he survived.

I think we can assume he died. That storyline hit me hard. The ones about loneliness always do.

The gun storyline squirmed me out. 

Delighted Clarke isn't wasting time pining for Natalie.