S18.E10: Motherly Love

[themightykazoo]

Is there a PM function? I can walk you through it since this is pretty off topic Use website daily motion and search for law and order uk. it is like YouTube. Since you aren't that computer savvy this is your best bet. I am watching it now on there so it works no problems. Let me know if you were able to watch law and order on there. We are TV lovers so hopefully there are no issues with posting this.

[TimWil]

Dominic Rowan's black hair on L&O: UK mesmerized me. OK, I'm shallow that way. I saw him stroll down St. Martin's Lane in London one night and resisted the urge to follow him!

Heh. I think it would have been fun if Stabler was the kid's stepfather.

[SunnyBeBe]

This episode just seemed to intent on trying to put Olivia as this wise sage.   And she's not.....imo.  Even the teen boy is smarter than her.  It seemed awkward when she has this sensitive conversation on the courthouse steps, as mentioned above.   And then even more so when she goes to the boy's house to talk with him after his mom's bombshell testimony.  To me, taking a minor out alone under those circumstances, even with his dad's consent, seemed odd.  Then she wants him to get into her car.  Then go out to eat?  What is she thinking?  The boy has to explain to her that he's not particularly up to being seen with an older lady having dinner, in light of what's in the headlines.  Oh, right....she's just clueless.  It just seems that we get a lot of how sensitive and supportive she is, but, when it really comes down to it, I don't feel it.  

[themightykazoo]

45 minutes ago, TimWil said:

Dominic Rowan's black hair on L&O: UK mesmerized me. OK, I'm shallow that way. I saw him stroll down St. Martin's Lane in London one night and resisted the urge to follow him!

I think I caught that episode of SVU about you "following" him. All in good fun.

[WendyCR72]

Just a friendly nudge to return to topic, which is this episode. L&O: UK has its own forum if one wishes to chat about that show!

[Xeliou66]

3 hours ago, skittl3862 said:

I think either because they showed her being raped. Well, "raped". Normally they don't show actual sex acts with the semi-nudity and thrusting.

Yes. And she invited him to dinner. How is this remotely appropriate? Why couldn't this scene have taken place in his house with his dad present?

Why did the defense attorney infantilize the son on the stand? "You were confused about what was going on." He's a 15 year old boy. He probably watches more porn on a daily basis than the entire courtroom combined. Of course he knows what sex is.

The other teenage boy's line that "He killed his god" was absolutely awful and should have been cut long before it made it to air. This episode subject matter was not that deep, and with the exception of that line, the boys weren't portrayed as anything more than normal friends.

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could have convicted her beyond a reasonable doubt. The "naked selfies"- from what I saw, it could have been a boy taking a selfie with a sleeping woman to show off to his friends. He could have gone upstairs and jerked off on the towel in her bedroom. He could have been raping her. There was no smoking gun evidence. As a viewing audience, Benson's repeated assertions that she knew something was off about the mom, and her reaction to the pictures obviously sway us towards SVU's perspective, but I don't think they made a very good legal case. Even with her switching defenses on the stand and admitting guilt for statutory rape, I don't think they made a case for murder based on the evidence. The kid being a sensitive nerd who didn't want to shoot Bambi's mom while hunting doesn't mean he couldn't have snapped when he saw his friend having sex with his mom. The only people who know what happened were the dead kid, the shooter and the mom.

I liked the scene with the homicide cop and Fin with Trey's parents. It was a little heavy-handed, but it was better than all the years of lily-white Cragan, Benson and Stabler brushing off (completely legitimate) concerns of racial bias from NYPD. Like that's crazy talk to even suggest because the cops are always the good guys. It's 2017. We've seen the videos. We know they're not. I'm glad SVU is acknowledging that to balance out the pro-cop propaganda on Blue Bloods.

Overall, I liked it. A few clunky lines and the son was a terrible actor, but the plot was good. Not really a landmark episode as others have said, but to be honest, I don't remember 100, 200 or 300 being particularly noteworthy either. 

Yeah I agree with most of this post, there was something off with several of the lines in this one, such as the "he killed his god" line. What the fuck was that, there was nothing shown in the episode implying he viewed Trey as a god. I think Buchanan went a little bit easy on the son because he didn't want to appear overly harsh on a teenage boy whose mother was on trial for murder. 

About the verdict, I thought that it was rushed and that the son denying his mothers story about him being a murderer and wanting to bang her shouldn't have been concrete proof that she was guilty. After all the son could've been lying, they still should've shown Barba's second cross of the mom, but they wanted to make it look like Saint Benson was the only one who could save the case. The son was certainly a bad actor and he looked like he had never acted before, and it didn't help that he was being directed by Mariska who overacts everything herself. Benson's expression in the courtroom were hilarious. And the scenes with Benson and the teenage boy was not only horrifically acted but also felt extremely inappropriate for Benson to be having such a private and intimate conversation with a teenage witness, especially when the case involved a middle aged woman having sex with teenage boys it felt extra off

[themightykazoo]

16 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just a friendly nudge to return to topic, which is this episode. L&O: UK has its own forum if one wishes to chat about that show!

I am new to Previously.tv is there a place for fans to discuss to both shows on the same thread? Law and Order is a pretty extensive franchise and many conversations about this show naturally bring up other Law and Order shows. I am just interested in discussing how different shows and cast reflect on each other how characters from one would be a better fit on another or to help a fan find a way to view this show. Is previously.tv just for discussing the content of an episode or am I just posting in the wrong thread? Everything began by discussing this episode and evolved naturally to talking about UK because of all of our interest in L&O

[WendyCR72]

Not that I know of. Almost every L&O show, the Mothership, CI, SVU, and UK, has their own forums. Some occasional crossover commenting happens, but we still try to stay on topic of that particular version. (The only two versions to not have forums as far as I can tell are Los Angeles and Trial By Jury (and the connected L&O universe show with Alex Cabot, 2006 Conviction), because no one ever requested such forums.)

All I can think of is to put your thoughts about whatever versions in their forums.

Hope this helps.

[Ions Earring]

Quote

And Benson thinks it's appropriate to be alone in a car with that woman's son, having such an intense and almost intimate conversation?

Phew! I thought I had gone insane. It was staged so weirdly. "Maybe we could .. take a drive"   ..What?!

A scene like this in Season 9 would've been followed by Stabler kicking down a door, finding Benson kidnapped by the kid, the mom and Trey.

That said, I liked the episode. I literally cheered, like I was on the set of "Married...With Children", when Buchanan showed up.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah Buchanan is great, he always adds a lot to his episodes. I hope he appears more soon. 

It was very weird Benson and the teenager getting in the car together. It was written to make Benson look angelic and as the only one who could save the case but it was so poorly acted it was laughable. I felt it was a bad move for Benson to be alone with the kid, especially with the case involving a middle aged woman screwing a teenage boy, it was really weird. 

[themightykazoo]

I thought the car scene was inappropriate but that the hug the mother was allowed to give the main witness during the trial even more strange. The son was never molested so it is not like he was a rape victim that suddenly had a similar person touching him. He was a person who had just lost his mom for reasons that made no sense to him and that he couldn't easily explain. His mom was turning on him too so he went from having a maybe loving mother to suddenly having one that actually wanted him harmed.

In that sense having a woman of a similar age comfort him would make some sense but is still extremely inappropriate and probably really messed with the kid's head after the trial. I wonder if he developed feelings for Benson because with him losing his mom he would easily misunderstand that Benson was just manipulating him to get him to testify in the way that Benson wanted.

Edited February 10, 2017 by themightykazoo

[Amethyst]

For the 400th episode, not too impressive.  Saw the mother lying about Trey pretty early.  The twist with her hanging her own son out to dry did catch me off guard, though.  Also was expecting the other boy to tell his father that he was gay, not sleeping with the evil therapist mom. 

What really bothered me at the end was that the whole focus was on teen boy and his evil mother, while they ignored Trey's murder and his devastated parents.  

[ladle]

On the plus side, we didn't have to hear anything about the detectives' private lives this episode... until the gratuitous last line.  So close, show!

[Monkeybball]

I haven't read any of the comments yet, so bear with me, but I have to say - THIS WAS THE WORST EPISODE EVER!!!!

[skittl3862]

On 2/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, skittl3862 said:

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could have convicted her beyond a reasonable doubt. The "naked selfies"- from what I saw, it could have been a boy taking a selfie with a sleeping woman to show off to his friends. He could have gone upstairs and jerked off on the towel in her bedroom. He could have been raping her. There was no smoking gun evidence. As a viewing audience, Benson's repeated assertions that she knew something was off about the mom, and her reaction to the pictures obviously sway us towards SVU's perspective, but I don't think they made a very good legal case. Even with her switching defenses on the stand and admitting guilt for statutory rape, I don't think they made a case for murder based on the evidence. The kid being a sensitive nerd who didn't want to shoot Bambi's mom while hunting doesn't mean he couldn't have snapped when he saw his friend having sex with his mom. The only people who know what happened were the dead kid, the shooter and the mom.

Quoting myself because I saw this deleted scene was posted and it specifically addresses some of my issues with how the case was portrayed. The detectives talking out  3 possible scenarios of this crime to show how they latched onto the "Mom is a psycho" option, instead of just leaping to that assumption as it was portrayed on the broadcast. Why was something that actually explains how the plot got from Point A to Point C cut in favor of the creepy car scene, or courtroom reaction shots?

[CelticBlackCat]

Buchanan could have had a field day in court if he'd seen Saint Olivia with the whacko mom's son in her car, hand on his shoulder.

[CelticBlackCat]

Another thing that's occurred to me, now that I've read the wonderful recap and saw the scene shot of Saint Olivia, Rollins and Whacko Mom:  Given that the crime occurred at the home of the "rape victim" why didn't she find a housecoat or something of her own to cover up with instead of having to be clothed by the NYPD?

[Xeliou66]

That deleted scene was good and shouldn't have been cut, that's for sure. 

And I agree that it was extremely inappropriate for Olivia to be in a car alone with the teenage witness and even offering to buy him food. This could easily be seen as trying to influence testimony and Buchanan would've destroyed Benson and Luke's credibility had he known. Awful scene and Benson should know better, and it was somewhat creepy as well how intimate Benson was with him. 

[HunterHunted]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:19 PM, Stacey1014 said:

That mother was a piece of work. I'm surprised they didn't try to use the narcissistic personality disorder diagnosis in the case, especially after the ex-husband mentioned it. I'm glad that she was found guilty. I was afraid that she was going to get away with everything and the son would end up committing suicide. 

He said she was Borderline, which fits because they're manipulative, messy as hell, and act out sexually. However, no one (judge, Barba, or defense attorney) questioned her competency, at trial or the time of the crime, so you can't present evidence of her personality disorder at trial. However when she said her son was sexually obsessed with her, Barba could have introduced psychological evidence about the son and the mom to rebut the mom's testimony. Unfortunately, there were 5 minutes left in the episode and we had so many scenes of Olivia being amazing that they had to show.

[Gigglepuff]

Just now, HunterHunted said:

 Unfortunately, there were 5 minutes left in the episode and we had so many scenes of Olivia being amazing that they had to show.

Yes! And heaven forbid any of us forget just how amazing Olivia is.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah, like I say I would've liked more trial scenes. The ending felt rushed, and we should've had more courtroom scenes instead of the idiotic car scene with Saint Benson behaving totally inappropriately with Luke. Another case where I miss Huang, he could've added more clarity about the psyche of both mom and son. 

[illdoc]

Question: Since Trey & the mom were having an affair (that is, this was not the first time they had sex), do you think he actually brought school books over as a "cover", considering they expected the son to be gone the weekend? Why didn't anyone say "if Trey came over to do homework (the mom's story), where is it?"

[Xeliou66]

Interesting question, I haven't thought of that. I wonder if he did bring homework over, because it seems like this is something the cops would ask about. Another thing missed by the writers. 

[ForeverAlone]

It seems like the deleted scenes I have seen so far have added more to the story than the Olivia centric scenes they chose to include. Big surprise there. 

[shapeshifter]

On February 8, 2017 at 9:03 PM, PreviouslyTV said:

The show celebrates a milestone with a MarHar-directed take on the predator-shrink trope.

Quote

. . . Barba decides to go after Nicole for third-degree rape of a minor and second-degree murder. The script could do a better job of connecting the dots of intent here, but I believe the rationale is that, once she realized Luke had busted them, she decided to set Luke up for his death -- . . .

View the full article

Although that did seem to be Wacko Mom's general thought process, based on my extensive studies at The School of Law & Order, I think the charge of second-degree murder was based on the argument that a death occurring during the committing of a crime (statutory rape) results in the perpetrator of the original crime being charged with murder. Or, as is often stated in second-degree murder episodes with very different plots from this one: Intent follows the bullet.

So I agree that this would have been a better episode with less Olivia, or at least more focus on the legal aspects.

The best part, IMO, was the Barba stare that caused the mother to realize nobody was buying her story. It was especially good because in the moments before the glare, the anticipation of The Barba Effect built up, and the execution of it did not disappoint. 

Edited February 12, 2017 by shapeshifter
misplaced comma

[bikebrh]

Looks to me like Delaney Williams has lost a bunch of weight...he's still the most punchable bad guy lawyer in the L&O-verse though...

Has no one but me thought about how crazy it is that the kid shot right over his mother's shoulder to kill that kid? Especially when you consider he didn't like guns and wasn't experienced with them? How could the show film the scene blocked the way it was, and not ever mention that?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Law & Order: SVU's 400th Episode Is A Mother

The show celebrates a milestone with a MarHar-directed take on the predator-shrink trope.

[fastiller]

On 2/8/2017 at 10:52 PM, Gigglepuff said:

When did the show change its name to the "Olivia Benson Hour"? Seriously, enough Benson, and enough making it all about Benson, all time. Is this the best they could do for their ultra-special 400th episode?  

I think you mean "The Olivia Benson Hour with Very Super-Duper Special Guest Noah Benson" (even when he's not there, he's there)

On 2/9/2017 at 10:50 PM, Ions Earring said:

Phew! I thought I had gone insane. It was staged so weirdly. "Maybe we could .. take a drive"   ..What?!

A scene like this in Season 9 would've been followed by Stabler kicking down a door, finding Benson kidnapped by the kid, the mom and Trey.

That said, I liked the episode. I literally cheered, like I was on the set of "Married...With Children", when Buchanan showed up.

My question - asked of my cat - was "in Manhattan?!!"

On 2/10/2017 at 7:44 PM, ArmoPrincess said:

Can't believe Liv turned down A DRINK WITH BARBA!

Yep, me neither.

[CelticBlackCat]

4 hours ago, fastiller said:

I think you mean "The Olivia Benson Hour with Very Super-Duper Special Guest Noah Benson" (even when he's not there, he's there)

My question - asked of my cat - was "in Manhattan?!!"

Yep, me neither.

She's a saint, so, no drinks in favor of babysitting ones own kid.

[Xeliou66]

I'm so sick of the constant Benson worship. We get it, MH/Olivia is perfect and a saint and without her there would be no justice and no goodness in the world. MH's ego has gotten out of the show and her extreme influence over the writing has been very harmful to the show. I'm so fucking sick of Benson, her holier than thou attitude and her constant snarl, and the way she acts like she is above reproach. I'm also sick of the dramatic scenes where Mariska acts like she's in a soap opera. 

[Gigglepuff]

OMG, that screenshot above. I can't believe holier-than-thou, sanctimonious Benson didn't ask the woman to put out her cigarette! Remember in October Surprise how she asked the woman (Lindsey?) to put out her cigarette (which turned out to be an e-cigarette) in the woman's own apartment? 

Edited February 14, 2017 by Gigglepuff

[CelticBlackCat]

That cigarette should have been our first or second clue (if you count that the ruckus going on in the kitchen didn't really sound like a violent rape) that Shrink Mom was a baddie.  Only bad people smoke on screen these days.

[QueenMab]

If the kid hadn't been such a sweet nerd, he would have realized that was the sound of his momma having hot monkey sex, not being raped, and we would have had a whole different episode.

[fastiller]

On 2/14/2017 at 2:46 AM, CelticBlackCat said:

That cigarette should have been our first or second clue (if you count that the ruckus going on in the kitchen didn't really sound like a violent rape) that Shrink Mom was a baddie.  Only bad people smoke on screen these days.

My first clue?  She was played by Sarah Wynter.  

[CelticBlackCat]

10 hours ago, fastiller said:

My first clue?  She was played by Sarah Wynter.  

She's Australian?!  I'm not familiar with this actress.  Today (Feb 15) is her birthday.  (Yes, I looked her up.)  I thought she did a great job acting the role and she sure is attractive.  Just that messed up character made her the unlikable type in this show.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

55 minutes ago, CelticBlackCat said:

She's Australian?!  I'm not familiar with this actress.  Today (Feb 15) is her birthday.  (Yes, I looked her up.)  I thought she did a great job acting the role and she sure is attractive.  Just that messed up character made her the unlikable type in this show.

 

One of the few, who's character on 24( Kate Warner)that survived Jack Bauer's Poisonous Penis.

[DaynaPhile]

I guess I don't notice the horrific acting everyone seems to complain about from Mariska. I do notice bad guest actor performances, but tonight I thought the kid was pretty good, and the mom was a bit weird. But I guess that works with the kind of character she played. Buchanan is scum and I detest watching him because I know he's always going to try something dirty to get the victim to look like the bad guy. 

Best part?  Barba in the courtroom and his suspenders in his office. Pink and black stripes, people. He rocks. 

[Kel Varnsen]

The twist at the end was stupid. Wouldn't the fact that the kid called 911 pretty much as soon as he got home be pretty good evidence that he wasn't trying to intentionally kill his friend. Why wasn't that call introduced as evidence?

 

On 2/9/2017 at 11:18 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah Buchanan is great, he always adds a lot to his episodes. I hope he appears more soon. 

That guy bugs me. I mean I get that they have him set up as the total hard hitting lawyer who will do whatever it takes to get his client off, always takes the high profile cases, and probably charges a shit load for his services. And I am sure there are tons of lawyers like that in real life. But in the world of Law and Order the defense almost always loses, so why do people keep hiring this guy for the big cases with the crappy record he must have? 

[Xeliou66]

Buchanan has defeated Barba several times in court, you haven't been paying close enough attention. I can remember several that he got his clients off in. 

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

That guy bugs me. I mean I get that they have him set up as the total hard hitting lawyer who will do whatever it takes to get his client off, always takes the high profile cases, and probably charges a shit load for his services. And I am sure there are tons of lawyers like that in real life. But in the world of Law and Order the defense almost always loses, so why do people keep hiring this guy for the big cases with the crappy record he must have? 

 

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Buchanan has defeated Barba several times in court, you haven't been paying close enough attention. I can remember several that he got his clients off in. 

Yes Buchanan has won and negotiated favorable plea bargains. And we can also assume that as a high profile defense attorney with a specialty he has also had successful appeals in some of those close cases that we just don't see because it's not what the show does. But just about all defense attorneys have a losing record for cases that make it to trial - the system does try to keep those who can't be proven guilty from getting that far. People hire top specialists because it gives them a better chance than they would have otherwise. If your choice is a 90% probability of conviction or 75% with the best possibility of a winning appeal and a lighter sentence it probably seems like money well spent.

[katisha]

This was episode 400?  I had no idea because it wasn't at all special, more the sort of episode they've done before much better in previous seasons.  TOO MUCH OLIVIA, not enough Fin, who's been on the show nearly as damn long as she has.  Oh, and I agree with the poster upthread who mainly watches these days because this is the last spinoff from the Mothership still left and it appears to be in its death throes.  It's a bit sad, really.

Quote

Looks to me like Delaney Williams has lost a bunch of weight...he's still the most punchable bad guy lawyer in the L&O-verse though...

I thought that too.

Edited February 19, 2017 by katisha

[katisha]

7 minutes ago, katisha said:

Quote

She's Australian?!  I'm not familiar with this actress. 

 

She may have been born over where I live but it seems she's spent her entire acting career Stateside.  I Googled her to see if there was any pre-US TV or movie history in Australia for her, but there's nothing.

Edited February 19, 2017 by katisha
quote went all wonky!

[Gbb]

I finally watched this episode last night. For the most part I enjoyed it, but it could have been so much better if the promos and the episode description and even the show itself hadn't given away the affair between the mother and Trey so quickly. Handled correctly the mother's "confession" from the stand could have had a huge impact and been an actual twist.  As it is, we know going in that she's lying about the rape. But if we weren't 100% sure of that, the episode would have been much stronger.

The viewers are privy to the scene where the son shoots Trey, so we know what he sees and that she cries rape. The sounds he/we heard from her could have been cries of passion or pain. The "naked selfies" found in Trey's room don't prove anything definitively. Her eyes are closed, and Trey is the one grinning into the camera. Since she takes sleeping pills it's not too much of a stretch to think someone could come in and snap those photos without waking her. They could have had the detectives battling two conflicting theories of the crime throughout the investigation phase: she was raped by an obsessed kid/she cried wolf in panic when caught by her son, leaving the viewer unsure of what to believe. Instead of confessing to sleeping with her himself, have the statement from the other kid at school be that Trey had told him he was sleeping with the Mom. Enough to allow Barba to move to trial but still enough grey area to let you wonder were they really having an affair or was Trey lying about sleeping with her because he was obsessed with her? The ex still calls her a malignant narcissist, but he's her ex, so should we believe him?  Have a few tense moments in the squad room as Rollins or Fin or Carisi argues that they may be about to try a rape/stalking victim for her own rape. THEN when we get to that moment in the trial when she pauses and takes stock and changes her story to say that she and Trey were having an affair and her son killed him in a jealous rage it can have an impact! Wait, we know she cried rape! So not only was she lying about the rape, she's an evil, manipulative narcissist willing to destroy her own son to save her skin. It just doesn't have the same impact when we're already sure of that for 3/4 of the episode.