Leah's 20/20 Episode: Scientology, A War Without Guns

[Brattinella]

I think that 20/20 was really pro-CO$, but was trying to appear fair and reasonable. They gave way more time to Blinky than to any victim.  What am I saying?  Of COURSE they are on their side!  Celebs and Hollywood in general are not for the little guy.  The big money people are in charge.

[Wings]

Oh ma god that interview.  

Listen Ted, you don't understand.  You have understand Ted.  Let me tell you, Ted.   That is fact Ted.  Ted, you don't know. TED TED TED TED TED.  Ted did a good job with him.  He sounded like Cruise in the Lauer interview without the anger.  They, together can take COS down with no outside help.  

1 hour ago, 3girlsforus said:

I just finished watching. I had to take a break because for some reason my family thought watching and reading Scientology stuff all the time wasn't as important as feeding them LOL.

I do have to ask, did anyone else think 20/20 was pretty soft in general? There weren't many tough questions or evidence of the lies presented. I have to wonder if I watched that without knowing anything about COS if I would really be as appalled as people should be.

They took a journalist stance and did not choose sides which was perfect.  COS hung themselves and Yingling led the way.  

Edited January 8, 2017 by wings707

[Glade]

Scientology doesn't believe in paying people; their workers are lucky to get 50$ a week for putting in over a hundred hours of hard labor, so it makes sense they'd be pissed at the very idea of those "freeloading, lazy alcoholic pedophiles Leah Remini and Mike Rinder" getting adequate pay for their work on television without even paying COS member taxes of 85%. 

[serenitynow]

I thought the woman who confronted the cameramen at the end of the latest episode was the spokeswoman?  I might be misremembering though.  That lawyer chick was a mess.  

[howiveaddict]

20/20s Facebook page is all over the lawyer lady and her blinking.  Almost 2000 comments.  I finally watched going clear today.  Just wow.  I came away thinking that John Travolta would have left the church, but he revealed something terrible in his auditing that they are holding over his head.  Too bad. It would be great to hear his side of things.  At least the lady who got him to join finally got out. It only took her child almost dying to do it though.  Also, I bet Raybun was payed off and that is why he made such a turn around.   

[3girlsforus]

Oh I forgot to say, I dare anyone to rewatch it with the phrase 'what I can tell you' as a drinking game. ?

[zxy556575]

5 hours ago, wings707 said:

I wonder if they paid Rathbun or threatened him. No way his 180 was a change of heart. I think they paid him and handsomely, blackmail is risky.

Who knows what's really going on with Rathbun, but my personal guess is that he's had a mental breakdown. Too much mindfuckery for too many decades, both in and out of the cult.

[Maharincess]

1 hour ago, howiveaddict said:

20/20s Facebook page is all over the lawyer lady and her blinking.  Almost 2000 comments.  I finally watched going clear today.  Just wow.  I came away thinking that John Travolta would have left the church, but he revealed something terrible in his auditing that they are holding over his head.  Too bad. It would be great to hear his side of things.  At least the lady who got him to join finally got out. It only took her child almost dying to do it though.  Also, I bet Raybun was payed off and that is why he made such a turn around.   

I completely agree.  I've always thought that Travolta wanted out but is afraid to leave. It's sad, I've heard that he is such a genuine, nice, caring man.   I've always thought that they are holding something big over his head.  

[3girlsforus]

I just can't get over the fact that they send someone who isn't a Scientologist to speak for them. That in and of itself should say something. 

[green]

2 hours ago, serenitynow said:

I thought the woman who confronted the cameramen at the end of the latest episode was the spokeswoman?  I might be misremembering though.  That lawyer chick was a mess.  

Yes she did identify herself as the spokesperson to the show's producer.  At least at their "Flag" in Clearwater.  But she would be considered small potatoes compared to Yingling since the latter is the big time lawyer who helped win these idiots their tax exempt status way back in the 90's and has been their legal counsel since.  As a big time lawyer she would be able to handle a TV network more than a sheltered "spokesperson" who probably was raised in the Sea Org and therefore has no formal education as a result.  Or so they thought.  Hahaha.

Someone up-thread asked how Yingling can defend these people.  Easy.  She is a lawyer.  A lot of lawyers routinely defend the worst of humanity with no qualms and outstretched palms.

[Wings]

Yingling's husband got them the tax exemption,  he died and the job of COS was passed on to her. 

[bubbls]

19 hours ago, hoosiermom said:

Where is everyone watching "going clear"?

I checked the DVD out at the library. 

[3girlsforus]

You can also watch it on amazon for $3.99

[savannah1985]

What happened to Marty Rathbun?  Did I miss something?

[palmaire]

2 hours ago, savannah1985 said:

What happened to Marty Rathbun? Did I miss something?

Not anything on 20/20, I don't think. But Marty went from being a very public critic of Scientology to now turning on Rinder, Tony Ortega, Chris Shelton, etc., calling them names and protesting what he calls ASC, the Anti-Scientology Cult.

He stopped criticizing Miscavige entirely on his blog and of course his wife dropped her lawsuit, even though it had made pretty good progress in the courts.

[Bibliophile]

10 hours ago, Diane Mars said:

Is it normal that I land on a XXXhardcore page ?!? #perplexityAtLeast

Whoops 123movies not 123video. 

http://123movies.vc/film/my-scientology-movie-16917/watching.html

itsthe only place I could find it since it's not release in the U.S. yet.

[Diane Mars]

30 minutes ago, Bibliophile said:

Whoops 123movies not 123video. 

http://123movies.vc/film/my-scientology-movie-16917/watching.html

itsthe only place I could find it since it's not release in the U.S. yet.

:D Thanks !

For my part I found it -and watched it- yesterday on the piratebay :) Really interesting, disturbing also, regarding Rathburn.... But I had a "problem" to enter in it and understand the "goal" of recruiting comedians... I didn't understand if it was a real casting, a reenaction of a demonstration of how you can "dive" into it or an "experiment". But it was interesting to watch, yes !

[Lisa418722]

23 hours ago, DrSparkles said:

Here too!!! Ended up being a non-event (here in ATL). Is it worth trying to find a repeat??

I send a message to Atlanta's ABC station asking if they were going to re-run the episode and I have heard nothing!  I wanted to watch 20/20.  So far it isn't on Demand either.  I'll try the ABC site.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Lisa418722

[Singingflutist]

You guys really need to download Kodi. Going clear is on it for free

Edited January 8, 2017 by Singingflutist

[Wings]

26 minutes ago, Singingflutist said:

You guys really need to download Kodi. Going clear is on it for free

Do not use Kodi. Security risk.

http://androidpcreview.com/bad-addons-cause-kodi-security-risks/4698/

[Singingflutist]

6 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Do not use Kodi. Security risk.

http://androidpcreview.com/bad-addons-cause-kodi-security-risks/4698/

Eek thanks. I only have it on my Android box and only have Exodus installed. Is Exodus one of the bad add-ons? I haven't had any issues with it yet.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Singingflutist

[Wings]

6 minutes ago, Singingflutist said:

Eek thanks. I only have it on my Android box and only have Exodus installed. Is Exodus one of the bad add-ons? I haven't had any issues with it yet.

The site is a security risk, doesn't matter what it is that you watch.  Their addons are risky. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by wings707

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

 I've always thought that Travolta wanted out but is afraid to leave. It's sad, I've heard that he is such a genuine, nice, caring man.   I've always thought that they are holding something big over his head.  

I hope its not the gay rumor. Because John, I don't care if you're gay, and its not worth hiding anymore.

After looking at all the letters CoS sends on its ex members.... has anyone ever questioned them on WHY so many highly placed members who were members for 20+ years always are child molesting, wife beating sex perverts with serious honesty, and integrity issues? I mean - everyone who leaves CoS who was highly placed was per CoS essentially a vile criminal... so whats going on in the upper levels that they keep these vile criminals in high positions for years and years?

[Wings]

9 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I hope its not the gay rumor. Because John, I don't care if you're gay, and its not worth hiding anymore.

After looking at all the letters CoS sends on its ex members.... has anyone ever questioned them on WHY so many highly placed members who were members for 20+ years always are child molesting, wife beating sex perverts with serious honesty, and integrity issues? I mean - everyone who leaves CoS who was highly placed was per CoS essentially a vile criminal... so whats going on in the upper levels that they keep these vile criminals in high positions for years and years?

I have only heard of one child molesting case in COS and that was the older woman having sex with a 12 year old boy.  Sexual deviants exist all over the world in all walks of life and belief systems.  The Catholic church may be #1 in that arena, certainly the one we have heard about the most.  

Physical abuse that seems to run rampant in the upper echelon of COS is a product of brainwashing, not that criminals join because of a tendency toward it. 

Wife beating is something members say of those who have defected and clearly lies because they all say it.  Seems there is a script on that.  

Edited January 8, 2017 by wings707

[ZoloftBlob]

That's my point - everyone high up who leaves is immediately called a criminal, etc etc etc so if that is the case, that they were rotten human beings, why was Scientology keeping them for 20 plus years?

I mean why keep Leah Remini, why try keeping her in the fold if she'd proven again and again to have severe integrity issues? There's a point where I start to question - if I take CoS at it's word about these ex members - why is Scientology's upper echelons filled with such awful people?

[Wings]

8 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

That's my point - everyone high up who leaves is immediately called a criminal, etc etc etc so if that is the case, that they were rotten human beings, why was Scientology keeping them for 20 plus years?

I mean why keep Leah Remini, why try keeping her in the fold if she'd proven again and again to have severe integrity issues? There's a point where I start to question - if I take CoS at it's word about these ex members - why is Scientology's upper echelons filled with such awful people?

Ah, I see your point, now.  They keep them because DM loves them; he created the culture where violence is expected and praised!  They are doing his bidding.  Megalomania and narcissistic disorder is at play here.  

Not directly related but contingent to this, in Tom's black turtle neck interview he laughs manically at the notion that SPs exist.  On 20/20 we see their lawyer talk about SPs.   All of these contradictions will help Leah and Rinder bring this cult down.  They are dancing as fast as they can and it is helping Leah and all defector stories.   I am looking forward to season 2.  

[MichaelaRae]

Quote

in Tom's black turtle neck interview he laughs manically at the notion that SPs exist.

I interpreted this to mean that he couldn't believe people would ask if SPs exist because there are so damn many of them (we can't all be as OT Supreme as Tom Cruise, after all - the planet is overrun with us SP types). It would be like asking a physicist if gravity really exists.

Edited January 8, 2017 by MichaelaRae

[Wings]

12 minutes ago, MichaelaRae said:

I interpreted this to mean that he couldn't believe people would ask if SPs exist because there are so damn many of them (we can't all be as OT Supreme as Tom Cruise, after all - the planet is overrun with us SP types). It would be like asking a physicist if gravity really exists.

I took it to mean he was protecting COS and lying in the process.  He knows damn well there are SPs, it is part of the culture.  Knee jerk reaction to deny everything as it is seen as a criticism.  

ETA.  I believe DM does not tell Tom everything that goes on thus his response.  I am not defending Tom in anyway.  It was a thought I have had.  He is in a gilded cage and the cash cow who can never know anything that may be perceived as horrific, like the hole or facility that imprisons people in So Cal.  If Tom would ever become disillusioned it would be the end of COS.  Love to hear if others have thought of this.  

Edited January 8, 2017 by wings707

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I hope its not the gay rumor. Because John, I don't care if you're gay, and its not worth hiding anymore.

After looking at all the letters CoS sends on its ex members.... has anyone ever questioned them on WHY so many highly placed members who were members for 20+ years always are child molesting, wife beating sex perverts with serious honesty, and integrity issues? I mean - everyone who leaves CoS who was highly placed was per CoS essentially a vile criminal... so whats going on in the upper levels that they keep these vile criminals in high positions for years and years?

This morning over breakfast my friends and I discussed Leah's show and $cientology in general, and one of my friends said she had heard that LRH had invented $cientology to cure of his son's of being gay, that many had joined to cure themselves, and that cureing someone of their gayness was one of the major tenants of the "church".  

She said all of this was extremely ironic given that LRH spent a lot of time at sea alone with teenage boys.

Just the notion of someone willingly and purposely joining any group in order to "cure" themselves of being gay, makes me extremely sad.  

[Meadow]

19 hours ago, Sup wit dat said:

I don't see any problem whatsoever with Leah getting paid...  She should set up a Go Fund Me page.  I'd donate.

I just bought her book rather than get it from my library in order to "pay" her in some small way for the important work that she's doing.  

There is a Go Fund Me page set up by ex-Scientologists who are trying to reach loved ones still trapped inside the Sea Org or just disconnected, in general.  

https://www.gofundme.com/stopscientologydisconnection

[Bibliophile]

3 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I hope its not the gay rumor. Because John, I don't care if you're gay, and its not worth hiding anymore.

After looking at all the letters CoS sends on its ex members.... has anyone ever questioned them on WHY so many highly placed members who were members for 20+ years always are child molesting, wife beating sex perverts with serious honesty, and integrity issues? I mean - everyone who leaves CoS who was highly placed was per CoS essentially a vile criminal... so whats going on in the upper levels that they keep these vile criminals in high positions for years and years?

occording to the Co$ they are all long term wife beaters. But here's my issue with that-if your auditing and KR's and overt/withholds and sec checks didn't reveal that then your "tech" is hokum and your scripture is bogus but if your "tech" really works then you knew that abuse was going on and you did nothing to stop it and you're a criminal for ignoring the long term abuses perpetrated by staff members that you kept promoting. 

The thing with there smear campaigns is that it doesn't work without also implicating $cientology as being complicit 

[Bibliophile]

20 hours ago, Brattinella said:

I think that 20/20 was really pro-CO$, but was trying to appear fair and reasonable. They gave way more time to Blinky than to any victim.  What am I saying?  Of COURSE they are on their side!  Celebs and Hollywood in general are not for the little guy.  The big money people are in charge.

I actually think that 20/20 may have just  made a ton of concessions to get Co$ to participate. I know they did something similar with BBC's panorama when they did a show on $cientology (you can search it-it was called Scientology and me) and they made them agree not to interview some people and never use the word cult. The thing was BBC's John Sweeney did all the things that he said he wouldn't do anyway. He agreed, filmed the spots with church officials, and celebrity spokespersons first then after they had that they did the hard hitting stuff anyway.  They tried to pull out of the program and they succeeded in getting most of their spots pulled but BBC had enough to make them look really bad. They have not participated with BBC again. It seems to me that 20/20 really wanted Co$ participation and the didn't want to burn bridges with them so they toe'd the line which basically left the viewing public with journalistic program that didn't follow journalistic principles.

20/20 might just have been soft to ensure their participation now and in the future in the name of balanced reporting however what we ended up with was not balanced at all. 

Personally as the viewing public I'd rather see a genuine hard hitting expose without church  participation than a weak program that barely scratches the surface and presents nothing more than a rehashing of the tamest points that everyone already knows. Weak sauce.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Bibliophile

[ZoloftBlob]

Exactly, why isn't David Miscavagige calling the cops on all these wife beaters? Why isn't Mike Rinder's wife calling the cops? If there's criminal embezzlement going on, why isn't the CoS pressing charges? What did Leah Remini do, and I want this detailed out, that was so unethical per the church that they had to kick her out?

[Bibliophile]

34 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Exactly, why isn't David Miscavagige calling the cops on all these wife beaters? Why isn't Mike Rinder's wife calling the cops? If there's criminal embezzlement going on, why isn't the CoS pressing charges? What did Leah Remini do, and I want this detailed out, that was so unethical per the church that they had to kick her out?

Here are the KR's that the Co$ uses as the basis of why they declared her a "Supressive Person" and kicked her out of the church. 

http://tonyortega.org/2015/10/27/the-leah-remini-files-an-exclusive-look-at-the-krs-that-inform-her-memoir/

Basically the worse that can be said about her from them is that she acted like a rude diva on a few occasions and that is all subjective hearsay. The truth is she wasn't kicked out-she left once she was put through a small fraction of the oppression that others went through because it gave her the guts to look critically at her "religion" for the first time. Once you finally step back and allow yourself to see the forrest rather than just the trees immediately infront of you the sane moral people run for the hills.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Bibliophile

[Wings]

3 hours ago, Bibliophile said:

I actually think that 20/20 may have just  made a ton of concessions to get Co$ to participate. I know they did something similar with BBC's panorama when they did a show on $cientology (you can search it-it was called Scientology and me) and they made them agree not to interview some people and never use the word cult. The thing was BBC's John Sweeney did all the things that he said he wouldn't do anyway. He agreed, filmed the spots with church officials, and celebrity spokespersons first then after they had that they did the hard hitting stuff anyway.  They tried to pull out of the program and they succeeded in getting most of their spots pulled but BBC had enough to make them look really bad. They have not participated with BBC again. It seems to me that 20/20 really wanted Co$ participation and the didn't want to burn bridges with them so they toe'd the line which basically left the viewing public with journalistic program that didn't follow journalistic principles.

20/20 might just have been soft to ensure their participation now and in the future in the name of balanced reporting however what we ended up with was not balanced at all. 

Personally as the viewing public I'd rather see a genuine hard hitting expose without church  participation than a weak program that barely scratches the surface and presents nothing more than a rehashing of the tamest points that everyone already knows. Weak sauce.

I think they did a good job.  By not allowing any bias, ABC kept the door open for COS to step forward and give their side.  In essence they gave COS enough rope to hang themselves!  There are plenty of exposure videos, books and articles around and Leah may be signed for another season.  Yingling did a fabulous job of undermining any credibility they might have had and it was nothing short of astonishing and hysterical!  Loved that.  We have heard all of the nonsense COS has spouted in retaliation but never we seen someone who really thought they were doing a good job at defending COS speak out and unwittingly confirm everything being said without realizing it.  THAT was fabulous.   

3 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Exactly, why isn't David Miscavagige calling the cops on all these wife beaters? Why isn't Mike Rinder's wife calling the cops? If there's criminal embezzlement going on, why isn't the CoS pressing charges? What did Leah Remini do, and I want this detailed out, that was so unethical per the church that they had to kick her out?

Those might be the next questions asked.  I would love to hear their answers on that.  The subject is so broad it will take a lot of time to cover it all.  This is a crucial issue I would like to see addressed. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by wings707

[Wings]

Rinder's blog on the 20/20 episode.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/abc-2020/

Yinglings first name is Muffins! 

Edited January 8, 2017 by wings707

[DangerousMinds]

On January 7, 2017 at 4:53 PM, CofCinci said:

Co$ lost a major asset with Mike Rinder's departure.  If Miscavige wasn't such a narcissist he would regret sending Mike to dig ditches.

I read in Amy Scobee's book that Miscavige really hated Rinder. Allegedly he had a doll made to look like Mike and used it to make fun of him while imitating Mike's accent.

[raiderred1]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Rinder's blog on the 20/20 episode.

http://www.mikerindersblog.org/abc-2020/

Yinglings first name is Muffins! 

Are you kidding!?!?!  OMG, that is hilarious!

[Brattinella]

I think her actual first name is Monique, but Muffins fits her way better!

ETA: There is lots of good information on Rinder's blog.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Brattinella

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

That's my point - everyone high up who leaves is immediately called a criminal, etc etc etc so if that is the case, that they were rotten human beings, why was Scientology keeping them for 20 plus years?

I mean why keep Leah Remini, why try keeping her in the fold if she'd proven again and again to have severe integrity issues? There's a point where I start to question - if I take CoS at it's word about these ex members - why is Scientology's upper echelons filled with such awful people?

Maybe because LRH himself was a wife beating cheater? Ha!

[Wings]

24 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Maybe because LRH himself was a wife beating cheater? Ha!

She smiled in her sleep for fuck sake, what was he supposed to do? 

[CofCinci]

49 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

I read in Amy Scobee's book that Miscavige really hated Rinder. Allegedly he had a doll made to look like Mike and used it to make fun of him while imitating Mike's accent.

Sounds like what Howard Stern did with the Jackie Puppet.  I'm sure that is where Miscavige got the idea.

[Bibliophile]

1 hour ago, wings707 said:

She smiled in her sleep for fuck sake, what was he supposed to do? 

You just made tea come out of my nose with that one!

What really makes it funny is that I could picture Miscavige, with his slicked back coif and car salesman smarmy persona and hard sell intense glare - saying something just like that.

[trow125]

The reason Mike calls Monique Yingling "Muffins" is because on the earlier 20/20 (the one promoting Ron Miscavige's book), she brought a basket of muffins and breads "as edible proof" of how great the food is at Scientology's Gold Base. She also called it "a worker's paradise." You can see for yourself on YouTube just after the 17-minute mark.

[Ina123]

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/giovanni-ribisi-daughter-lucia-leaves-scientology/

This is a link to an article about the Ribisi's, a big Hollywood family in CO$. Most notable of them is Giovanni, the actor most will recognize as, Frank, Phoebe's brother on Friends. The article is about a female who is interviewed on a radio show by Tony Ortega as "Carole". "Carole" has been identified (presumed) as Giovanni's daughter, Lucia. It's fascinating. 

[DangerousMinds]

Sad, because I liked the Ribisis.

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

This is a link to an article about the Ribisi's, a big Hollywood family in CO$. Most notable of them is Giovanni, the actor most will recognize as, Frank, Phoebe's brother on Friends. The article is about a female who is interviewed on a radio show by Tony Ortega as "Carole". "Carole" has been identified (presumed) as Giovanni's daughter, Lucia. It's fascinating. 

Two things about this article.  It says:

Quote

Now, A-list celebrity Giovanni Ribisi, a lifelong devotee of the church,

1. A-list?  Really?  I think Radar is trying to suck up.

2. Ribisi is old enough to have an 18 yo daughter?  Geeze, now I feel old!

[DangerousMinds]

7 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Two things about this article.  It says:

1. A-list?  Really?  I think Radar is trying to suck up.

2. Ribisi is old enough to have an 18 yo daughter?  Geeze, now I feel old!

I used to consider Giovanni fairly A-list. But yeah, I feel old too now!

[jrlr]

On 1/7/2017 at 3:10 PM, Brattinella said:

I think that 20/20 was really pro-CO$, but was trying to appear fair and reasonable. They gave way more time to Blinky than to any victim.  What am I saying?  Of COURSE they are on their side!  Celebs and Hollywood in general are not for the little guy.  The big money people are in charge.

I worked in the film industry for 30 years before retiring, and you couldn't be more wrong.  There are hundreds of thousands of under the line jobs that make up the nuts and bolts of production, with or without screen credit and fame.  I'm definitely what you would lump into the "little guy" category, although I got paid very well and now have a lifetime pension and medical coverage.  Yes, it's an industry town, but the industry is nothing like you imagine it to be.  In those 30 years I never met ONE person who thought CO$ was anything more than a money-grabbing cult filled with needy weirdos and a few famous people.  Big F Deal.  Work here for awhile before you make pronouncements about a business you clearly know nothing about.

[Meadow]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Sad, because I liked the Ribisis.

Same here, but have a hope.  I get the impression that they might all be on their way out.  I predict that if Lucia goes, Giovanni will be gone within a year.