S04.E02: The Lying Detective

[TaurusRose]

3 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

Of course not.  It is the dialogue of the show itself, though, that is inviting the discussion of romance.  When Sherlock says, "Romantic entanglement, while fulfilling for other people," John literally finishes the sentence by saying, "would complete you as a human being."

Now the answer has to be that either the character of John (into whose mouth the writers are inserting words) is right about that or he is wrong about that.  It's the show that is inviting the consideration.  That's not subtext:  that is just text.  It came up in Sherlock's own imagined conversation with John in "The Abominable Bride" too.  (The "impulses" conversation.)  Why do the writers take us here?

Okay.  But I tied that bit of conversation back to the woman (since that's who they were talking about in the first place) not to Watson & Holmes.  I don't remember the particulars of the impulse conversation in TAB and I have too many other things to catch up on to watch it again.  At any rate, I don't believe it's a matter of the writers leading the audience to that conclusion, but more a matter of seeing what one wants to see.

Edited January 9, 2017 by taurusrose

[Penman61]

57 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

They did a good job of changing up the actress's looks, but her voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me (mean, I know, but...yeah), so I instantly saw that chippie, therapist and psycho's daughter were all the same actress.

(Emphasis added.)  But they weren't all the same actress, were they?  

The actress playing Smith's actual daughter (in the morgue) was a different actress from the "daughter" that came to see Sherlock, who also played John's therapist.  Yes?  

[Kostgard]

Just now, Penman61 said:

(Emphasis added.)  But they weren't all the same actress, were they?  

The actress playing Smith's actual daughter (in the morgue) was a different actress from the "daughter" that came to see Sherlock, who also played John's therapist.  Yes?  

Oh, I meant "daughter" who spent the evening with Sherlock eating chips. Sorry, wasn't clear on that. The actual daughter was clearly a different actress.

[Penman61]

No problem, Kostgard.  In an episode with a surfeit of twists and reveals, I thought I'd blinked and missed one. :)

[DHDancer]

Am I the only one who had not dry eyes during the Watson/Holmes heart to heart at the end?  To me there was a strong feeling of Freeman/Cumberbatch going on in that exchange because of the fact that Martin and Amanda have split up (before filming this series I believe).  Maybe it's just sentimental ol' me.

Anyway really loved the episode!  Definitely back on track with the show.

[Ceindreadh]

Anybody else think that the rug on the floor in the therapist's office looked very like a pool of blood? 

It was the first thing I noticed in the opening therapy scene and I thought there was going to be a reveal that Watson was talking to a dead person. (Which of course technically he was!)

[spottedreptile]

Brilliant episode! So compelling. Why did we have to sit through the dross of the first one in order to find this Arkenstone of a show? So looking forward to next week. 

I liked that the villain was believable, albeit revolting. But I can go with that many powerful 'philanthropists' are in truth ghastly people who use their public goodness to disguise or atone for their hideous deeds, we've seen that again and again. Toby Jones was wonderful. He'd make a great Baron Harkonnen. 

What I liked especially was that the episode was really all about John. I'm seeing him in a whole new way and it's fascinating. I find John a more interesting character than Sherlock because he's more accessible, I guess, but also because Martin Freeman is doing such fine work with him, and he is the one who breaks my heart, not Sherlock. When he was laying into Sherlock in the morgue I was crying because his pain and self-hatred was brutally exposed, and Sherlock was just letting him do it because he knew John's need to exorcise himself. Exhausting stuff. 

Rewatch: Just noticed when Sherlock is interviewing Eurus-as-Miss-Culverton in his flat, he says she doesn't need a car because she's "living alone, no human contact, no visitors."  Nice call out to Sherrinford there. Eurus is definitely uncomfortable with the question. I'm wondering if just for a moment she thinks Sherlock has twigged to her.

Edited January 9, 2017 by spottedreptile

[spottedreptile]

5 hours ago, SimoneS said:

 Hopefully now that Mycroft is getting some, he will pull the stick out.

Ohh, man, I'm still wiping my eyes over that one!

[Meredith Quill]

How did Euros get hold of the notepaper that Culverton's daughter wrote? How was she - considering she's supposedly in a 'secure' place - able to obtain information that led to her deducing Culverton was a serial killer? If Sherrinford is an institution of some sort it's a bloody badly secured one despite Mycroft's assurances, as Euros seems to be able to come and go as she pleases.

[zxy556575]

I'm getting tired of the lot of them, I suppose, because I just didn't care about all the drugged-out histrionics and hallucinations. I did notice the trio of bad wigs but chalked it up to poor costuming choices.

I'm glad nobody tried try to turn John's texts into an amusing but heartwarming misunderstanding: "He was talking to someone in secret about Mary's anniversary present!"

It seems like the show goes out of its way sometimes to film/light Amanda as harshly as possible.

Edited January 9, 2017 by lordonia

[Michichick]

18 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

How did Euros get hold of the notepaper that Culverton's daughter wrote? How was she - considering she's supposedly in a 'secure' place - able to obtain information that led to her deducing Culverton was a serial killer? If Sherrinford is an institution of some sort it's a bloody badly secured one despite Mycroft's assurances, as Euros seems to be able to come and go as she pleases.

She said when she was revealing herself to John that she'd gotten the note from Culverton. She was in cahoots with him. 

[Meredith Quill]

1 minute ago, Michichick said:

She said when she was revealing herself to John that she'd gotten the note from Culverton. She was in cahoots with him. 

Which leads to another question; how did Culverton know who she was in the first place? Also he made great pains and harped on about how serial killers choose their victims at random but...this points to him choosing Sherlock as a victim well in advance, which contradicts that...my head hurts.

[tankgirl73]

2 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

Which leads to another question; how did Culverton know who she was in the first place? Also he made great pains and harped on about how serial killers choose their victims at random but...this points to him choosing Sherlock as a victim well in advance, which contradicts that...my head hurts.

I mentioned this in a previous comment. She says "we connected through a mutual friend." So the new mystery is, who is this friend? Is this new person the actual Big Bad, or just some underling, or might it be Moriarty, etc etc.

As for Sherlock not being random, look back at my long conspiracy theory post on the first page, about how the whole thing is a setup between Euros, Culverton, and Mary to kill Sherlock. Which could make Mary the mutual friend, hmmm... Anyway, he doesn't technically only want to kill at random, that's just what makes it easiest to go undetected. He wants to kill "anyone" and generally doesn't care who. But if the opportunity comes up to kill someone who would be a huge trophy on his imaginary mantlepiece... he'll take that opportunity.

Basically, Culverton was luring Sherlock the whole time. He gave Euros the note on purpose, in order to get Sherlock to come to him. He was laughing so hard at the idea that his daughter went to visit him because he knew the truth about who actually did. He was the mastermind of the whole thing -- or at least one of the masterminds.

But he didn't realize that Sherlock was using the whole thing for his own advantage too -- putting himself in danger on purpose in order to "save John" by Mary's instructions. How much did Sherlock actually understand about the setup? Did he know he'd been lured or did he think he'd just successfully goaded this bad guy into trying to kill him? Mary said to pick a bad guy and egg him on until he was in danger... and a suitably eggy guy just happens to come along and fit the bill perfectly. Thus, my suspicion that Mary was still a Bad Guy (or had ulterior motives of some sort) and actually masterminded the whole thing, setting up Culverton as the bait and giving Sherlock a good reason to take it...

It was revealed in the first episode that Mycroft knew who Mary was all along. So... maybe she had something to do with securing Euros in the first place (in an institution called Sherriford? Great theory about that name!!) in her AGRA role. Super crazy operative that she is, she's responsible for getting Euros out of Sherriford and starting the whole thing in motion...

Edited January 9, 2017 by tankgirl73

[Meredith Quill]

I hope it doesn't all lead back to some posthumous plan created by Moriarty because...yawn, but it likely will.

[Peace 47]

Eurus mentioned to John that a mutual friend of Culverton's and hers put them in touch, that person being implied to have been "Moriarty," given the whole "miss me" scrawled across the letter at the end.  It's as though Moriarty manipulated Eurus and Sherlock coming together like this.

Eurus is the secret sister and the third Holmes sibling, but I did wonder for a hot second if we were limited to just 3 Holmes siblings, after Sherlock said in this episode that people always stop looking after finding 3 of a thing.

I thought that John's beating of Sherlock was way too excessive.  I know John is loaded with man pain and all, and he was obviously too much a mess to be carrying on with life until he finally had that cathartic breakdown with Sherlock later on and let his mental image of Mary go, but that beating was so over the top, even Culverton the serial killer was like, "Yikes."

I thought it was odd that they made a big deal at the beginning of the episode that the memory drug did not just cause amnesia, but also potentially alters existing memories, too, and then didn't really use that again.  I mean, it did explain how the real Faith could be so blissfully ignorant and therefore give Eurus a wide berth to operate.  But it was also mentioned that the drug could cause you to remember things incorrectly, and I was just waiting for that to mean something.  

I also thought it was odd that they made a big deal last week of Molly giving Sherlock a note to read from John (and it looked like Sherlock was reading it in the cab last episode), but then they never touched on what it said.  We can guess, but it seemed weird to include an actual note when Molly effectively conveyed the message to buzz off and then never address it.

Both Sherlock and John said, "It is what it is" at 221B, and then Eurus said the same thing to John at the therapist's office.  Was that because she heard their 221B conversation, or just because she and Sherlock think alike?

[tankgirl73]

1 minute ago, Peace 47 said:

Eurus mentioned to John that a mutual friend of Culverton's and hers put them in touch, that person being implied to have been "Moriarty," given the whole "miss me" scrawled across the letter at the end.  It's as though Moriarty manipulated Eurus and Sherlock coming together like this.

Eurus is the secret sister and the third Holmes sibling, but I did wonder for a hot second if we were limited to just 3 Holmes siblings, after Sherlock said in this episode that people always stop looking after finding 3 of a thing.

Both Sherlock and John said, "It is what it is" at 221B, and then Eurus said the same thing to John at the therapist's office.  Was that because she heard their 221B conversation, or just because she and Sherlock think alike?

1. Unless I'm right and it's been Mary all along, in cahoots with Euros, and the "miss me" is the sister talking to her long lost brother... ;)

2. OMG I LOVE THAT. That's exactly the sort of thing this show would do. It would be stretching it though... one secret sibling is odd enough, but 2?

3. I'm pretty sure the implication is supposed to be that he said it to her during that session, that it's part of what is helping him cope now. But now that you mention it... she also knew that he suspected about a secret Holmes brother, and the ONLY time he mentioned that was to Mycroft, in 221B. Did she plant a bug in the flat when she was there?

[Eneya]

1. The walking on walls and so on was Sherlock being high and hallucinating.
2. The note was fake, from start to finish. Euros created it. And everything she said is suspect. About the drug, its effects and so on. The real daughter not only didn't know about her father... nocturnal activities but also has never been part of the inner circle to whom he shared. Actually, nobody knows if he has ever really shared that thing to anyone. We saw the drops but we do not really know what they were used for.
3. I though the actress playing Euros looked and acted very much like Amy Acker.
4. I loved that Euros has heterochromia iridum (different eye colours) and that she wore contact lenses.
5. Mary (actress) and John (actor) dated? Huh...
6. Mrs. Hudson was fun and grated at the same time. Loved her haircut, the car and the taking of the gun. The talking is waaaaaaaaaaay to similar to all other women giving dressing downs to people who everyone finds very smart ever written by Moffat to care.
7. I am sure Mary has nothing to do with this and it is a reference to Moriarty. I am also betting sweet money that they ripped off Elementary and put a female evil mastermind.
8. Choosing people at random but creating an opportunity must have ticked his fancy? IDK... serial killers?
9. I am awaiting the moment somebody calls his mom and Euros is in so... much... trouble... :)

Edited January 9, 2017 by Eneya
typos

[tankgirl73]

14 minutes ago, Eneya said:

2. The note was fake, from start to finish. Euros created it. And everything she said is suspect. About the drug, its effects and so on. The real daughter not only didn't know about her father... nocturnal activities but also has never been part of the inner circle to whom he shared. Actually, nobody knows if he has ever really shared that thing to anyone. We saw the drops but we do not really know what they were used for.

4. I loved that Euros has heterochromia iridum (different eye colours) and that she wore contact lenses.

5. Mary (actress) and John (actor) dated? Huh...

7. I am sure Mary has nothing to do with this and it is a reference to Moriarty. I am also betting sweet money that they ripped off Elementary and put a female evil mastermind.

 

2. No, it was real. Euros said that Culverton gave her the original note, and she added to it (the "miss me" in invisible writing). The true daughter was definitely in the room but the drugs worked and she forgot everything. I suppose it's *possible* that he only confesses to corpses and the whole IV thing was part of his trap, which Euros cultivated... but then again, the note was indeed real, so where did it come from if the IV thing didn't happen?

4. I don't think that was the intent. She took out one contact so we were seeing one 'real' eye and one still with the contact. Using coloured contacts was part of her disguise... contacts and wigs would be how she pretended to be 3 different people.

5. Dated? They were married and have 2 kids.

7. We're definitely supposed to suspect that it's Moriarty at this point. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a different mastermind at work, and Mary is just my own personal crazy theory right now. :)

[Amers]

Ok, I had a suspicion it could be a sister but was surprised. 

 

I DID say out loud the second the therapist appeared "that's the girl from the bus". I saw it right away. But I didn't catch she was the lady in the red dress. 

I loved this episode. It was funny and surprising. Can't wait for next week! I have no theories. I too thought the therapist was gonna pull off a mask and be Moriarty and my brain was like, so she's the girl on the bus and Moriarty??? I thought they had s.e.x. Haha can't win them all. 

 

I'm happy it was just texting. Even with more intentions it lessens my need to throat punch Dr. Watson. 

[Eneya]

Yeah but everything ABOUT the note was edited by Euros. Everything that Sherlock deduced. I am thinking... he told her and she created it after that, as proof? We will see though.

Oh, damn. I am a sucker for heterochromia.

I rarely pay attention to the actors. Too many have turned out to suck and in turn it has affected my enjoyment of their work, so... apparently I missed that. :)

Oh, I agree. What I think is though, Moriarty was in cahoots with Euros... or was her flunky or something. :)

We shall see.
TBH I was so disappointed with the 1st episode, I am a tad overexcited about this one and obviously have missed things. :) Definitely great thanks for the explanations!

[Amers]

Oh, and more, 

When I'm dead. IF I'm dead...

 

She ain't dead. I don't buy it. She's gonna tear John up for just "texting" cause she was in on it anyway. I've thought Mary was Moriarty since she showed up somehow anyway. I'm probably wrong. 

[cardigirl]

I'm in the minority for now, as I didn't enjoy this episode much.  I'll have to rewatch to see if I enjoy it more the second time around, but it all seemed a bit frantic to me.  

[Amers]

A big tip off that the women's identity, in terms of the therapist and daughter, for me were the large reflective glasses. Usually on tv glasses don't reflect. I thought something about that was odd and that we were being led not a see her clearly. My husband said I was over thinking. Haha jokes on him. This mind palace may have a limited number of rooms, but some of them work. 

[festivus]

1 minute ago, Amers said:

This mind palace may have a limited number of rooms, but some of them work. 

Love that! I said at the beginning that the therapist was the girl from the bus and my husband just gave me the eye. However, I did not connect her as being Faith so that was a nice surprise. 

I need to watch this one again before I spout off any of my dumb theories, but I'll just say I have a sinking feeling. I still don't think the last episode was "right" somehow, it still feels off to me. 

[Arnella]

I love Mrs. Hudson so much even if she would never let me borrow her hot car!

I could buy all the weird plot twists and jumps but Sherlock spent a whole night talking to a woman and picked up all those clues about her (even clues he didn't know he was picking up until later) and never an inkling that that woman was his own sister??  Just... no.

Mycroft getting lucky???   No.. just no... 

[rereader2]

I'm thinking Sherlock may not know he has a sister--if she's older than him, it's entirely possible. That would make her line about him being nicer than she thought just the literal truth.

As for Sherlock predicting everything, well, obviously he showed he knows exactly how John reacts to things as he was able to manipulate him to a tee, up to and including the cane, but it's not at all clear he was predicting either Mrs. Hudson's or Molly's behaviors--Mrs. Hudson was sitting right next to Sherlock when he watched Mary's video so she knew exactly what he was trying to do all along. That means that when she led John and Mycroft to the CD, it wasn't an accident, Sherlock told her to. It's more than likely, I think, that he just told her to bundle him into the car on exactly the day he asked Molly to be meeting him (and also it's more than likely he just told Molly what was going on--she's one person he knows for certain is a safe confidante, after all).

Edited January 9, 2017 by rereader2

[Peace 47]

This episode reminded me a little bit of "His Last Vow" in terms of how enamored it was with time jumps or abrupt cuts (like Mrs. Hudson showing up at the therapist to start us off, then jumping back in time to the board meeting, then forward to Sherlock and Eurus chatting at 221B).

One of the less obtrusive ones, though, that I've been thinking about, is when Greg is interviewing John at the police station, and they cut back to Sherlock and John at the hospital.  John looks down at his bruised fists with some "disassociation" in his eyes and said that he really did punch Sherlock, and I thought that just seemed a little odd, like he was establishing a story.  (It was just one more weirdness, like the emphasis on the blog that I mentioned, that left me feeling ajar.)  

Maybe it was just John just processing what he had actually done, but we also saw that it was wayyyy more violent than just some punches--John was kicking Sherlock by the end of it.  He might have killed him.  The way this show uses this kind of violence with no consequences vexes me.  I'm going to be hung up on this like I was Mary shooting Sherlock.  We're probably supposed to just believe that this demonstrates how close John (or Mary before) was pushed to the edge of breaking and the violence was just some lashing out, but I'm sitting there saying .... yikes, these people should be in jail.

Also, John sat there with Greg and heard the news report about how Culverton was thinking of moving Sherlock to Culverton's favorite room (which Culverton had already said was the morgue), and John processed that--he looked thrown off by that.  But he didn't do anything about it until he caught on to Sherlock's full plan through Mary's disk.  Even if you are 99% sure that you are done with your bff forever because of their antics, if that 1% of doubt tweaks in you that they are actually in danger, wouldn't you go to them at the moment of the threat?  Not being a good detective if you don't.  And the way that John pouted and wouldn't examine Sherlock, and forcing Molly to do it.  Not being a good doctor.   So, I'm still not liking S4 John very much.  

Edited January 9, 2017 by Peace 47

[Winter Rose]

First of all, I think there were some great performances. Toby Jones, definitely, although the ending (understandably) seems to take away from all the promotion about Culverton Smith being the evilest evil that ever eviled. Ben was so great in the hospital in the "I don't want to die" scene. And Martin, certainly, with John confronting his mistakes with Mary and his wrongful blame of Sherlock. I love that Mary was still a part of the episode. Even just in John's conscience, she was still important.

I thought the sister was a great twist. Of course John doesn't cheat with a random person, this is TV world, and they probably wanted to make sure she appeared before this episode. But I loved the disguise alone between the woman with Sherlock at the beginning and John's therapist. (I almost thought it would be Moriarty, TAB did put him in a wedding dress.)

I'm just still trying to process everything, this episode's going to need a few rewatches. I don't even know what to speculate at this point because I'm sure everything will be wrong. I just know I want, but am not even remotely ready for, the last episode.

Also, I'm so, so happy about the Irene Adler mention! When Sherlock took it upon himself to save her life, and kept it between them, when he already "beat" her, obviously she had somewhat affected him. So I love that they've kept up texting, or mostly her texting him. Even if that's all it is, it's their dynamic. It was such a nice surprise, especially since my hopes are otherwise very low on seeing her again anytime soon.

Anyway, I just loved this episode. I think it's actually been the best one since TRF.

[tootsie]

Does it matter that in the initial "you all won't care if I have masked nurses strap you up to iv s, will you?" scene, the terrible-toothed villain made it a point to say that 1 of the participants was a "high-ranking" police official? Probably not. I'm consistently wrong about what's important and what's not & have never met a red herring I didn't like.

[tankgirl73]

1 hour ago, rereader2 said:

I'm thinking Sherlock may not know he has a sister--if she's older than him, it's entirely possible. That would make her line about him being nicer than she thought just the literal truth.

Ohhh.... interesting.

What do we know so far about the mystery sibling? Only hints and nudges. We know that Mycroft is older than Sherlock, but we don't know -- do we? -- about the other sibling. Mycroft might be the oldest brother, but not the oldest child. It would work that Mycroft was old enough to remember Euros but Sherlock wasn't.

Which brings me back again to the flashback that Sherlock had, on the dock with the fake-daughter-really-his-sister, at the moment when he's about to collapse and trying to make the connection to "anyone", he flashes back to being a child on the beach with a dog and a child's voice singing a sing-songy kid's song (I could make out the words 'don't move I'll find you', something like that as I recall).

Obviously it's supposed to be Redbeard the dog. But WHY did he have that flashback just then? I speculated earlier that he might have been starting to recognize her, and the childhood flashback was his brain (which he hadn't caught up with yet) making the connection, this lady was reminding him of a person from his childhood.

Perhaps he's old enough to have subconscious memories of her, but nothing conscious. Some really deep, deep memory was being dragged out of his mind palace there.

But here's another thought -- how much do we know about Redbeard? I'd have to rewatch previous episodes, but how much have we learned, beyond that he had a dog when he was very young?

What if -- and boy I'm loving the crazy conspiracy theories here -- what if he never had a dog at all? What if every memory he has of Redbeard is actually a memory of his older sister? Memories are pliable and unreliable... young Sherlock starts to talk about something he remembers and older Mycroft says "oh yes, that was with your dog Redbeard... remember?"

This episode was thematically dealing with changed/erased memories, after all...

Anyway, whether Redbeard IS Euros or whether he's just got memories of the two of them associated together, I think it's not insignificant that he had that flashback when he did, and I think it's not implausible that he simply didn't know he had an eldest sibling sister...

[tankgirl73]

1 hour ago, rereader2 said:

I'm thinking Sherlock may not know he has a sister--if she's older than him, it's entirely possible. That would make her line about him being nicer than she thought just the literal truth.

Ohhh.... interesting.

What do we know so far about the mystery sibling? Only hints and nudges. We know that Mycroft is older than Sherlock, but we don't know -- do we? -- about the other sibling. Mycroft might be the oldest brother, but not the oldest child. It would work that Mycroft was old enough to remember Euros but Sherlock wasn't.

Which brings me back again to the flashback that Sherlock had, on the dock with the fake-daughter-really-his-sister, at the moment when he's about to collapse and trying to make the connection to "anyone", he flashes back to being a child on the beach with a dog and a child's voice singing a sing-songy kid's song (I could make out the words 'don't move I'll find you', something like that as I recall).

Obviously it's supposed to be Redbeard the dog. But WHY did he have that flashback just then? I speculated earlier that he might have been starting to recognize her, and the childhood flashback was his brain (which he hadn't caught up with yet) making the connection, this lady was reminding him of a person from his childhood.

Perhaps he's old enough to have subconscious memories of her, but nothing conscious. Some really deep, deep memory was being dragged out of his mind palace there.

But here's another thought -- how much do we know about Redbeard? I'd have to rewatch previous episodes, but how much have we learned, beyond that he had a dog when he was very young?

What if -- and boy I'm loving the crazy conspiracy theories here -- what if he never had a dog at all? What if every memory he has of Redbeard is actually a memory of his older sister? Memories are pliable and unreliable... young Sherlock starts to talk about something he remembers and older Mycroft says "oh yes, that was with your dog Redbeard... remember?"

This episode was thematically dealing with changed/erased memories, after all...

Anyway, whether Redbeard IS Euros or whether he's just got memories of the two of them associated together, I think it's not insignificant that he had that flashback when he did, and I think it's not implausible that he simply didn't know he had an eldest sibling sister...

[tankgirl73]

New question: In the scene where Lestrade is interviewing Watson about the scalpel incident, they talk about whether they should have seen it coming. Watson says, "he shot Magnusson in the face, we should have seen that coming" -- something along those lines, anyway.

A big point was made about the coverup of this event in the previous episode.

Did Lestrade already know the truth? Or is this news to him? Did John slip up there? Is this plot point not going to be so tidily closed as we've been led to believe?

[Peace 47]

2 hours ago, tankgirl73 said:

But here's another thought -- how much do we know about Redbeard? I'd have to rewatch previous episodes, but how much have we learned, beyond that he had a dog when he was very young?

Ah, a call for my useless episode knowledge.  Redbeard was first mentioned in "The Sign of Three" when Sherlock called Mycroft for what appeared to be some moral support (in connection with giving the best man speech).  Mycroft warns Sherlock not to get emotionally involved in John's wedding or John's life and cautions Sherlock to "Remember Redbeard."  Sherlock responds that he is not a child anymore.

After Sherlock is shot in the next episode, he uses an image of a dog he calls Redbeard to calm himself down and keep himself from going into shock.  It seems like Redbeard is a positive memory for him.  In "The Abominable Bride," Sherlock is in his mind palace stakeout with John, John asks him what made him this way, and that triggers another memory for Sherlock:  children laughing, and he asks very quietly, "Redbeard?" before the case (glass shattering) distracts him from pursuing that any further.  At the end of the episode, Mycroft's notebook has the word "Redbeard" written in it.

This episode and season, we've seen two children and the Redbeard dog in the flashback, I think.  I don't really have any sense of where they are going with this, though, but you have some good thoughts there.

Quote

Did Lestrade already know the truth? Or is this news to him? Did John slip up there? Is this plot point not going to be so tidily closed as we've been led to believe?

So confusing about what Lestrade knew and when he knew it.  Sherlock mentioned to Lestrade last episode that Mary knew international assassin Ajay, but Mary's secret life was supposed to be all hush-hush.  That's what Magnussen died for.  But now we have characters telling Lestrade things he didn't know like it was old news.  You can hand wave and say that Lestrade is Mycroft's inside man at the police, so he was trusted to know things.  Basically I'm not sure if anything is important or just not airtight writing.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Peace 47

[tankgirl73]

Thanks Peace47! That actually fits in quite nicely with my "Redbeard isn't real" theory... that it's somehow a placed/artificial memory that Mycroft has planted in Sherlock to replace memories of Euros. There are other possibilities too... he had a dog and an older sister, and she killed the dog which somehow has to do with the breaking glass, and he's blocked all memory of her since then. It's all connected in some way, though... that's for damn sure!

[ohjoy]

With the exception of "The Sign of Three", there was at least one reference to "the east wind" in each of those episodes as well, right? I agree that they seem to be connected. I'm not great at theorizing, but I'm personally convinced that Euros was definitely involved in whatever happened to Redbeard (no idea how though).

I really liked this episode, which is great because I wasn't fully looking forward to it. The finale next Sunday is both too soon and too far away.

[tankgirl73]

Now I'm rewatching the previous episode, looking for hints and clues now that we know the truth about Euros and her alter egos, etc. First thing that jumps out at me... When Sherlock can't remember Lestrade's first name, John teases him, comparing him to an infant. "You can't even tell people's faces apart".

Pot, kettle...

Next observation is related to my pet theory that Mary is behind everything, from Euros' involvement all the way back to leading Sherlock to the 'traitor' and faking her own death in the aquarium... she planted the idea in his head "the receptionist knows everything" -- just the same way that Euros planted the "anyone" idea for Sherlock. That one was deliberate. So maybe Mary's was too......

Edited January 9, 2017 by tankgirl73

[Kostgard]

56 minutes ago, tankgirl73 said:

What if -- and boy I'm loving the crazy conspiracy theories here -- what if he never had a dog at all? What if every memory he has of Redbeard is actually a memory of his older sister? Memories are pliable and unreliable... young Sherlock starts to talk about something he remembers and older Mycroft says "oh yes, that was with your dog Redbeard... remember?"

This episode was thematically dealing with changed/erased memories, after all...

Anyway, whether Redbeard IS Euros or whether he's just got memories of the two of them associated together, I think it's not insignificant that he had that flashback when he did, and I think it's not implausible that he simply didn't know he had an eldest sibling sister...

It crossed my mind that somehow she was replaced in his memories by a dog, but I'm still not sure what happened there. 

Sherlock seemed to be really hit by the idea of suicide, and obviously not the first time he's thought about it (his whole speech about how your life is not yours, your death negatively impacts everyone around you, not actually you, etc). Was that just brought on by Mary effectively committing suicide when she took the bullet for Sherlock? Or was another memory triggered (which is why he started to have his Redbeard flashback)? 

My current pet theory is that Sherlock is aware that he has a sister, but that he is under the belief that she died when he was very young - possibly by suicide. The fact that he doesn't recognize her could mean that he never saw her face as an adult (meaning she was rather young when she "died"), but I wonder if there wasn't something about her that he was recognizing on a subconscious level, which is what lead to his flashback, and why she decided to choose that moment to take off (she realized that on some level he was starting to recognize her).

Maybe like Sherlock, she has a tendency to go off the rails and did so at some point in her youth, with her family thinking she died (which may explain why Mycroft keeps such a close eye on Sherlock). Then somewhere along the line Mycroft found her, but decided to tuck her away at some facility (Sherrinford?) rather than alert the family that he had found her alive (Why? Who knows). 

The part I don't get is that while I think Sherlock is aware that he had/has a sister, there does appear to be holes in his memory (the Redbeard memory they've been teasing all season indicates that since it is always incomplete). So, why are those holes there? Did something traumatic happen and he blocked it out? Did Mycroft somehow orchestrate it? (If so, when? He's not that much older than Sherlock - no more than a decade - and I can't see teenage Mycroft orchestrating that). I guess time will tell whether or not they can fill in these plot holes.

 

As for John's behavior this episode, it for the most part made sense to me, but there is still some things that were not fully fleshed out. John has always been a little rage-y. And he's had a lot of terrible crap in his life (estranged from his sister, PTSD from military service, watching his best friend "commit suicide" and spending two years thinking he was dead only to have him bounce back into his life like it was all just a fun game, and then his wife up and dies on him when he's in the middle of cheating on her, so he gets a nice layer of guilt to go with his grief). Him freaking out and beating the crap out of Sherlock didn't surprise me. Back in season two when Sherlock asked him to hit him just to put on a show for Irene, John was just a wee bit too into it. And that was a "fun" situation. This was a situation where he was boiling over with grief and guilt and anger at Sherlock for what he was doing to himself. It appeared that Sherlock was bent on destroying himself, and as Sherlock pointed out, that was causing more pain for those around him that it was for himself.

But I wish there was more of an explanation to why he cheated. It was basically just "Sorry, I'm weak. I'm not as good as Mary thought I was." I wish we got more, like how it's probably hard to feel special when you spend all your time around people like Sherlock and Mary, and bus chippie made him feel special. I don't know. I just wish there was more to it. 

And I don't get why Smith's "I may send him to my favorite room" line didn't immediately send him into action. I get that he was trying to distance himself from Sherlock and was trying not to get involved. But Smith was all but saying "I'm going to kill Sherlock" and it isn't like John to just sit on his hands and let a murder happen. I don't get why that didn't send him to the hospital before Mary's message, or at least a phone call to Lestrade all, "Smith is actively trying to kill Sherlock. We need to have someone with Sherlock at all times and someone needs to keep tabs on Smith." I mean, unless he is the idiot Mrs. Hudson said he is, that part really made no sense.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Kostgard

[Turtle Wexler]

Am on my second viewing.  Definitely enjoyed this more than "The Six Thatchers."  I'm trying to figure out--how did John manage to find Eurus in the first place?  Or, more accurately, how did Eurus manage to masquerade as a therapist meeting all of those qualifications?  I know what Mary told John in the car about how he found a therapist/how Sherlock figured it out, but how is it that Eurus was able to be that woman?  

And... along with what rereader2 said earlier, because Mrs. Hudson had seen the DVD before, is it possible then that what she told John at the therapist's (via the flashback we saw of Sherlock going off the rails in the apartment) didn't actually happen, but was something that Sherlock just told her to tell John?    

Edited January 9, 2017 by Turtle Wexler
fixed the spelling of "Eurus."

[tankgirl73]

Turtle Wexler -- she killed the therapist and took her place. She said something like "the real therapist who lives here wouldn't want blood on the carpet... oh wait, she's in a bag in the airing cupboard." As for how she knew which therapist to replace, she figured it out the same way Sherlock did.

As for Mrs Hudson - and even Molly -- merely playing along and they didn't ACTUALLY get told ll this 2 weeks before, I think that's totally plausible. Sherlock says outright that the whole theatrical over the topness of it was to prove to John that his reasoning was still good even though he was high, to convince John that he was right and they needed to go after this bad guy. Which was all part of the plan, Mary's plan. Mrs Hudson and Molly could easily be convinced to play along in order to help save John.

Heck, Molly's examination of Sherlock telling him he had only weeks to live, that happened in private, closed quarters. That could also have been a complete lie.

I just rewatched 6 Thatchers, and there is MUCH talk in that one, from Sherlock himself, about how it's NOT possible to pinpoint the future with that level of accuracy. He wishes he could-- talks to Mycroft saying if only they could see all the threads in the web, they'd know how to pull them to predict the future. He wishes it, meaning, he knows he can't. And the whole thing with following Mary around the world -- he says he knows 58 methods to reduce the number of possible permutations etc etc... but they're really difficult so he didn't bother with them and just stuck a tracker on the chip.

So even if he could predict, with a reasonable amount of certainty, the broad strokes -- which therapist John would pick -- he's not above cheating when it comes to the details.

[Peace 47]

1 hour ago, tankgirl73 said:

 

Next observation is related to my pet theory that Mary is behind everything, from Euros' involvement all the way back to leading Sherlock to the 'traitor' and faking her own death in the aquarium

I would love for this to be true, mostly for the ego boost that I wouldn't have been wrong for side-eyeing Mary for 3 years, but on the other hand, I would have to continue to call whiplash on this character, as I did last week:  she's good; she's bad; she's redeemed; she's .... bad again?  I don't know.  One thing that may tie Mary and Eurus together is that when Sherlock first deduced Mary in "The Empty Hearse," he saw the word "guardian" in addition to "liar."  That was never explained.  Was she a guardian of Eurus in some capacity (protecting her so that Eurus and Mary were dark reflections of Sherlock and John)?

Also, I corrected one thing on my post above:  in TAB, Mind Palace Victorian John asked Sherlock what "made him" need to always be alone, Sherlock said that he made himself this way, and that is when the echo of the children laughing and him asking about Redbeard happened.  The glass shattered after that and tore Sherlock back to the case.  I misremembered.  Might have gotten some of Culverton's memory drug in me.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Peace 47

[TomServo]

I wonder if all the other patients of the dead therapist noticed the bad disguise.  You'd think if Sherlock's alleged sister had been canceling all the appointments (except for John's) for weeks that a bad review would have showed up online by now.

[Primetimer]

And is anything actually what it is?

View the full article

[Peace 47]

Sorry for so many posts by me, but there are people who believe that both last episode and this episode are taking place in some altered reality/ dream/ alibi story.  One weird thing last week was that the skull painting in the far right of this picture that I am linking was actually glowing at some points when it never had before.

Take a look (although there is some nsfw language at the top of the blog, so beware) at this cap from the episode last night:  the skull painting is now pitch black.  I wasn't so convinced that all the oddities were not just production errors/ loose writing, but this has to mean something, doesn't it?

Edited January 9, 2017 by Peace 47

[oliverwendell]

Quote

What if -- and boy I'm loving the crazy conspiracy theories here -- what if he never had a dog at all? What if every memory he has of Redbeard is actually a memory of his older sister? Memories are pliable and unreliable... young Sherlock starts to talk about something he remembers and older Mycroft says "oh yes, that was with your dog Redbeard... remember?"

This episode was thematically dealing with changed/erased memories, after all...

Anyway, whether Redbeard IS Euros or whether he's just got memories of the two of them associated together, I think it's not insignificant that he had that flashback when he did, and I think it's not implausible that he simply didn't know he had an eldest sibling sister...

I just finished posting this same thought in the Speculation thread. But you put it much more coherently than I did, and now I'm even more convinced that we're both right.

[tennisgurl]

15 hours ago, Kostgard said:

'm not a JohnLock 'shipper, but at the end of this I was all, "Honestly, I think things would just be a lot easier for John if he'd just hook up with Sherlock. He already married the female version of Sherlock. Then he went and cheated on her with actual Sherlock's sister. Just go straight to the source, man. Your life will be a lot less complicated."

I really am not a shipper for them either, but at this point, I am kind of thinking the same thing. Just, like, dude. Read the signs.

That was A LOT better than last week, and a lot better than I thought this week was going to be. I am still a bit annoyed with John, but at least his asshole behavior towards Sherlock was limited to one episode, and they seem to be back to normal now. We only have three episodes per century basically, we need to get what we can out of what we have! I actually thought everyone was basically in character (although I still call shenanigans on John being pissed at Sherlock for so long and ever blaming him for Mary in the first place, but whatever, its over now), and I always enjoy the surrealism of episodes with druggie Sherlock, as long as they dont go on too long. He really has gotten a lot nicer over the years. I certainty cant see first or second season Sherlock walking around with a woman he thought was suicidal, telling her she should live, and laughing rather good naturally about chips. This all seemed more back to basics, with Sherlock and John solving a case with the help of their allies and Mycroft lurking around being ominous and awkward. Good times.

I totally should have seen the secret sister twist coming! Its so obviously all the same women in retrospect, but I totally didn't catch on. Granted, I did see Johns bus texting buddy being shady coming. You see John, this is why you dont have texting affairs with random women when you routinely tangle with international criminals and terrorists known for manipulation and elaborate plans, and are also married to a retired assassin! Oy!

Also, I question John pushing Sherlock to get with Irene. Its a nice sentiment, and I certainly cant see Sherlock getting into a real relationship with a "normal" person, but maybe a woman who isn't a blackmailing criminal who willingly worked with a terrorist and Sherlock's worst enemy, who really kind of sucked at her job and needed Sherlock to save her ass from being beheaded. Of course, as Ghost Mary said, John married a woman who knows has killed tons of people and done God knows what, so Irene is basically his type anyway. At least Mary seemed to feel some remorse and was basically competent though.  

Also, Mrs. Hudson needs a spin off show., Maybe a prequel? I can get behind it. Also, Toby Jones really is a creepy guy. However, I spent most of the episode being all "Oh go re start Hydra and turn into a computer Toby Jones". 

[festivus]

55 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

 

Sorry for so many posts by me, but there are people who believe that both last episode and this episode are taking place in some altered reality/ dream/ alibi story.  One weird thing last week was that the skull painting in the far right of this picture that I am linking was actually glowing at some points when it never had before.

 

Me! I'm one of those people. I don't think you're posting too much, I like reading what you have to say. 

 

So, I don't do spoilers but I love me a good theory so I've been over at Reddit reading a shit ton of them. I'm trying to form my own and I have not re-watched the episode yet but I have made some notes on things I want to ponder.

*The Blog (something is definitely up there)

*Sherlock saying in the last episode, what do I do about John?

*Introducing the drug that either makes you forget or alters your memory.

*The glowing and now black skull.

*The East Wind

*It's never twins/why do people always stop at three

Honestly, so far my theory is looking bad so I'm not going to go there yet until I watch again.

[festivus]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

15 hours ago, Kostgard said:

'm not a JohnLock 'shipper, but at the end of this I was all, "Honestly, I think things would just be a lot easier for John if he'd just hook up with Sherlock. He already married the female version of Sherlock. Then he went and cheated on her with actual Sherlock's sister. Just go straight to the source, man. Your life will be a lot less complicated."

I really am not a shipper for them either, but at this point, I am kind of thinking the same thing. Just, like, dude. Read the signs.

That made me laugh. I'm not a shipper for them either or it's more like I'm not a shipper in the usual way. I don't think it needs to be sexual or even romantic for someone to be your soulmate. That's kind of how I see them. Soulmates.

[merylinkid]

The best line was Mrs. Hudson explaining how that yes, the sports car was her car. "Of course it's my car. I'm the widow of a drug dealer. I have properties all over London. And I'm not your housekeeper anymore."

I also loved when she got out of the car, the policeman was there and asked her "Did you know how fast you were going?" "Of course not, I was on the phone." I might have died laughing over that one because I had my own hearing for a speeding ticket this morning.

[tankgirl73]

Quote

*It's never twins/why do people always stop at three

Oooh putting those thoughts together.... what if Eurus has a twin sister (making 4 Holmes siblings) named Zephyrus? (That's the west wind god)

Maybe they're both being held at Sherrinford... which is totally a place, not a person, on rewatch it's plain as day... and being twins, they're able to trick the staff into thinking they're both there when it's really just one at a time, so that the other could escape and hatch this Cunning Plan to reconnect with her long lost baby brother?

Mayhaps I should head over to the speculation thread...

[RedHackle]

It seemed really obvious to me that John's new therapist and the woman Sherlock met with were the same woman - something about her accent or enunciation  that was quite unique. She also showed up somewhere else in the episode as one of Smith's employees. (I didn't put her together with John's sexting friend from the previous episode, though.) But here's what's tripping me up; I don't buy for a moment that someone as observant as Sherlock could spend an evening with his own sister and not recognize her - wig and contacts are about as effective a disguise as Clark Kent's glasses. So I'm wondering if we're going to find out in the next episode that she's not his sister after all. But damn, after that episode, I doubt EVERYTHING. I was ready for the entire episode to end up being some drug-induced dream of Sherlock's or grief-induced dream of John's.  I still feel like I don't know what hit me.