S07.E13: Breaking The Wall / S07.E14: Deja Vu

[Katt]

@Uncle JUICE Somebody was arguing with me when I said I didn't want to go on a roller coaster because it's dangerous, and they said I'd more likely be killed driving there. I said, yeah, but how often do I drive compared to roller coaster malfunctions? They still didn't STFU, though. 

[Uncle JUICE]

35 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

As I think about it more, what about parents who choose careers like the military or law enforcement that come with greater risks of harm than the average office job? Should they reconsider since they are parents?

I'd make a couple of arguments here, and probably get into some trouble with a number of posters, so I preface this honestly by saying I really don't mean to offend anyone. My kid's godfather is cop, and I have a lot of military in my family.

First, those are both JOBS, skydiving is something you PAY to do (so it is cash negative, not a method of prividing for your kids). Second, and this is not something that really gets a lot of publicity because acknowleding it is a truly politically incorrect idea (not "If you're offended, you're too politically correct"), cops and soldiers are very, very stable (in both cases) and well compensated (in the case of police officers) jobs filled largely by people who do not have college degrees (and this is not only because they don't have the financial werewithal to go to a state school...seriously, I have met plenty of law enforcement through my cousin, and they're almost uniformly knuckleheads to some degree). Both have pensions, both are well regarded by society as heroes (in the overwhelming majority, military members are absolutely heroes, this isn't a denigration). Therefore, taking those jobs, those stable, well compensated and well regarded jobs, comes with a risk that many people wouldn't accept. When they're accepted by parents, they're accepted BECAUSE they want to provide more opportunities for their children. I'm not saying there are no exceptions, but that's why they're called exceptions. 

When you accept the risk of skydiving, you're accepting it because it's just something you want to do. Totally different for me. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, Katt said:

@Uncle JUICE Somebody was arguing with me when I said I didn't want to go on a roller coaster because it's dangerous, and they said I'd more likely be killed driving there. I said, yeah, but how often do I drive compared to roller coaster malfunctions? They still didn't STFU, though. 

Exactly, you're only more likely to die in a car than you are on a rollercoaster because you don't drive a rollercoaster to work. I fly for work twice a month, and every time I do, every time I'm at the airport, I have to acknowledge that I'm taking risks not only on board the aircraft (car accidents have survivors, plane crashes do not), but the whole airport experience security wise and how they're big targets for bad people. I have to accept that risk in order to do my job, and if something terrible happens, the end of my story will be "he was doing his job." Not "why did dad decide to skydive, he could still be with us."

[FlowerofCarnage]

57 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Don't Cory and/or Jo smoke (or chew)? That is just as dangerous in the long run as being overweight or sky diving. Possibly more.

Great points! It's probably more dangerous overall to simply drive on a regular basis.

Jo smokes but I can't  blame him. I would probably smoke too if I had to put up with Kail and Javi.

[Tatum]

@Uncle JUICE, just because I'm nosy, what field of work are you in? Do you fly twice a month to the same place, or do you travel all over?

[ReadMeLattice]

4 minutes ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Jo smokes but I can't  blame him. I would probably smoke too if I had to put up with Kail and Javi.

I think he always has. It was part of his Hard Rapper Living in My Mom's House 4 Now persona. 

So do only Cole, Corey, Chelsea, and Javi have jobs? 

[DangerousMinds]

9 minutes ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Jo smokes but I can't  blame him. I would probably smoke too if I had to put up with Kail and Javi.

Well , he is simply putting his life far more at risk then he would not smoking. 

Some of my best memories from childhood are riding rollercoasters with my dad. 

We all choose what we do based on many, many variables. I don't like to judge others for theirs.

Edited January 4, 2017 by DangerousMinds

[ReadMeLattice]

Smoking like Corey and Jo do is a much bigger risk than skydiving or rollercoasters. Eating like Gary or Amber do or drinking like Maci are much riskier too. So I don't think we can judge them based on risk. Kailyn would definitely not come out on top there. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lm2162

[Uncle JUICE]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Well , he is simply putting his life far more at risk then he would not smoking. 

I'll go you one better here, I WILL judge parents for smoking. Unlike skydiving, rollerocoasters or airplanes, you are paying money for something that has been scientifically PROVEN to adversely affect, and even kill, its users. Not "small chance" of killing you, not slight increase in probability that you will die, but the active knowledge that you are doing something that kills thousands and thousands of people every year. If skydiving had the annual fatality rate that nicotine-related diseases have, it would be as illegal as street racing is.

[GreatKazu]

Perhaps if Kail skydived a lot more, she'd stay out of trouble and make better life choices like not  marrying a guy for benefits and the chances for cheating would decrease.

Can someone figure out when Jenelle's court trial was and when she had that car accident? After the car crash she mentioned being ten weeks along in her pregnancy.

Edited January 4, 2017 by GreatKazu

[FlowerofCarnage]

13 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I think he always has. It was part of his Hard Rapper Living in My Mom's House 4 Now persona. 

So do only Cole, Corey, Chelsea, and Javi have jobs? 

Does Jeremy still count? 

Edited January 4, 2017 by FlowerofCarnage

[ReadMeLattice]

1 minute ago, GreatKazu said:

 

Can someone figure out when Jenelle's court trial was and when she had that car accident? During the car crash she mentioned being ten weeks along in her pregnancy.

Judging by that court hearing, the documents are likely stuck to somebody's windshield with chewed gum.

1 minute ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Well, I guess you can add Jeremy too.

Yeah, I forget about him sometimes. 

[Uncle JUICE]

4 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

So I don't think we can judge them based on risk.

Why not?  I mean I know as a society we don't want to "judge" others, but if you don't judge others in some regards based on their actions which are direct results of decisions they made, how do you ever teach kids? If I had a friend whose hobby was sticking dimes into electrical sockets, I am well within my rights to judge him as an idiot even if he isn't dead, and tell my kids what he's doing is idiotic and they shouldn't do it either. Which is exactly like smoking or overeating. When you do something stupid, when you have a bad habit that's terrible for your health and you're responsible for children (that's a big distinction, if you want to mistreat yourself and disrespect the short time you've got on earth, then don't have kids and salud) and you're not activley trying to remediate it, then expect Uncle Juice's judgement!

[ReadMeLattice]

Just now, Uncle JUICE said:

Why not?  I mean I know as a society we don't want to "judge" others, but if you don't judge others in some regards based on their actions which are direct results of decisions they made, how do you ever teach kids? If I had a friend whose hobby was sticking dimes into electrical sockets, I am well within my rights to judge him as an idiot even if he isn't dead, and tell my kids what he's doing is idiotic and they shouldn't do it either. Which is exactly like smoking or overeating. When you do something stupid, when you have a bad habit that's terrible for your health and you're responsible for children (that's a big distinction, if you want to mistreat yourself and disrespect the short time you've got on earth, then don't have kids and salud) and you're not activley trying to remediate it, then expect Uncle Juice's judgement!

What I meant (added it after) is that Kailyn would definitely not be top of the list if we're really looking at risks. 

[DangerousMinds]

8 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I'll go you one better here, I WILL judge parents for smoking. Unlike skydiving, rollerocoasters or airplanes, you are paying money for something that has been scientifically PROVEN to adversely affect, and even kill, its users. Not "small chance" of killing you, not slight increase in probability that you will die, but the active knowledge that you are doing something that kills thousands and thousands of people every year. If skydiving had the annual fatality rate that nicotine-related diseases have, it would be as illegal as street racing is.

I agree, but like food addictions, addictions to tobacco, drugs and alcohol are addictions. These are serious health issues, not moral failings. 

[GreatKazu]

6 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

What I meant (added it after) is that Kailyn would definitely not be top of the list if we're really looking at risks. 

Her driving record is nothing to sneeze at. And driving is something she does a lot. Caught numerous times for offenses that are illegal and dangerous. The girl puts others at risk.

We have watched her driving with her cell phone in her hands numerous times. Jenelle as well. 

Jenelle and Nathan are road rage-type drivers. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by GreatKazu

[FlowerofCarnage]

The skydiving is nothing IMO, compared to Kail getting risky cosmetic surgery within a day or two of her son's birthday.

[DangerousMinds]

9 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I'll go you one better here, I WILL judge parents for smoking. Unlike skydiving, rollerocoasters or airplanes, you are paying money for something that has been scientifically PROVEN to adversely affect, and even kill, its users. Not "small chance" of killing you, not slight increase in probability that you will die, but the active knowledge that you are doing something that kills thousands and thousands of people every year. If skydiving had the annual fatality rate that nicotine-related diseases have, it would be as illegal as street racing is.

I believe gun deaths/injury are also much higher than those from roller coasters, flying, sky diving, bike riding, etc. But funny they are not illegal. But that's all I'll say about that.

[ReadMeLattice]

Now that I think of it, Jeremy loves to show off his guns and took a pic of his toddler holding it. Whether you're for or against gun ownership, statistically guns in the home are a  much higher risk to both adult and child than skydiving. They might actually be a worse risk than anything else mentioned.

And all the texting and driving they do as @GreatKazu mentioned. 

I think part of the issue is what we normalize. Unfortunately smoking, binge drinking, eating fast food constantly like Leah and co, texting while driving and not exactly storing guns properly are considered "normal" by a large percentage of the population. I wonder if they even think about it.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lm2162

[Uncle JUICE]

1 minute ago, DangerousMinds said:

I agree, but like food addictions, addictions to tobacco, drugs and alcohol are addictions. These are serious health issues, not moral failings. 

Addictions are definitely health issues, but you lose my sympathy on them when you (a) have kids and (b) don't take responsibility for remediating them. If you have cancer, for example, and decide "Eh, fuck it, I don't want to treat it, i'm too lazy to go to the doctor, it's too hard, I like cancer" then your demise has a lot different impact than someone who fought for three or four miserable years because they wanted to see that time with their children or their family. Replace cancer with any of those substances, it's the same to me. 

[GreatKazu]

3 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Now that I think of it, Jeremy loves to show off his guns and took a pic of his toddler holding it. Whether you're for or against gun ownership, statistically guns in the home are a  much higher risk to both adult and child than skydiving. They might actually be a worse risk than anything else mentioned.

And all the texting and driving they do as @GreatKazu mentioned. 

I think part of the issue is what we normalize. Unfortunately smoking, binge drinking, eating fast food constantly like Leah and co, texting while driving and not exactly storing guns properly are considered "normal" by a large percentage of the population. I wonder if they even think about it.

And you just pointed out something. Jeremy got slammed for the gun photo. So, it is not about anyone NOT pointing out the guys faults or behaviors. Kail is no special snowflake and neither are the guys on this show. They all get slammed. 

This is not directed at you, just quoted you because you mentioned the gun photo. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I agree, I just mean that the act of skydiving is small potatoes compared to all the other much riskier activities. Skydiving just *looks* riskier. But my husband did it post-paralysis, with a reputable company. It's really not very dangerous. 

What IS dangerous to both parents and kids is the risky driving, poor eating, smoking, gun fetishes, ignoring doctors' orders, exposing them to animal abuse and other psychological trauma, procreating multiple times with domestic abusers, etc etc. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lm2162

[Tatum]

8 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

 

What IS dangerous to both parents and kids is the risky driving, poor eating, smoking, gun fetishes, ignoring doctors' orders, exposing them to animal abuse and other psychological trauma, procreating multiple times with domestic abusers, etc etc. 

That's why this show is just not much fun anymore. I mean, I still enjoy making fun of it with you lovely posters, but hard to watch knowing every episode I mock just adds another layer of future therapy needed for the TM and TM2 offspring- that the majority of them won't get. Can you imagine either Leah or Jenelle trucking their kids to therapy? Kail or Chelsea might, but I wouldn't put it past Kail to use therapy as a way to hurt one of her exes (ie, manipulate her kids into saying something to the therapist that makes their respective fathers look bad).

[Spiderella2]

19 hours ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

I never heard of a uniformed police officer being a prosecutor in a criminal trial.  How can the State get away with NOT being represented by an actual attorney? 

Maybe he is a lawyer AND a cop. Could that not be possible? He could be a former cop turned lawyer, or has a law degree that he rarely uses since he works as a cop to pay the bills.   Maybe he was going to work after the case and did not want or have time to change. Maybe all his suits were at the dry cleaners and the cop uniform was the only outfit that he had that was presentable for court. Maybe his ex burned all of his clothes in a Janelle fit of rage and the cop uniform was the only thing he had to wear. With these small towns, people tend to wear many hats, it could be that. 

He definitely was not prepared and obviously did not do any witness prep. Also he barely made any objections to Janelle's stories and barely did a cross examination of any of the witnesses. It was a shoddy case, he-said, she-said type deal.  Maybe the county did not bother putting a real attorney from the district attorneys office on the case because it was such a low ranking offense. It could also be that the real lawyer did not want to be on camera and was feeding lines to the cop via an earpiece. Obviously my imagination is going 100 mph but I just don't understand why he was in the cop uniform either...lol!

Edited January 4, 2017 by Spiderella2
Spelling

[Uncle JUICE]

1 minute ago, Spiderella2 said:

Maybe he is a lawyer AND a cop. Could that not be possible? He could be a former cop turned lawyer, or has a law degree that he rarely uses since he works as a cop to pay the bills. 

I think more likely is that he is a current cop who is pursuing a law degree, more than a guy with a law degree can't pay the bills so he decides to be a cop on the side. And Myrtle Beach isn't Los Angeles, but it isn't exactly Nowhere, Arizona either. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I agree @Tatum. Sometimes it's so bad it's not even fun because some of what we see on screen is toxic or straight up abuse and neglect. 

And re: the court case, I will say that it made it really clear why Jenelle and Nathan have gotten off so many times and never served any hard time...

[zenme]

If I were married to Kail I'd have her go skydiving every weekend, get her a season pass to 6 Flags (for the roller coasters), and I'd buy her a motorcycle. 

[Tatum]

1 minute ago, zenme said:

If I were married to Kail I'd have her go skydiving every weekend, get her a season pass to 6 Flags (for the roller coasters), and I'd buy her a motorcycle. 

Get her a voucher for being put in a shark tank on one of her many excursions to Hawaii. Maybe tip a little extra if the door is not bolted shut.

[GreatKazu]

14 minutes ago, Tatum said:

That's why this show is just not much fun anymore. I mean, I still enjoy making fun of it with you lovely posters, but hard to watch knowing every episode I mock just adds another layer of future therapy needed for the TM and TM2 offspring- that the majority of them won't get. Can you imagine either Leah or Jenelle trucking their kids to therapy? Kail or Chelsea might, but I wouldn't put it past Kail to use therapy as a way to hurt one of her exes (ie, manipulate her kids into saying something to the therapist that makes their respective fathers look bad).

There is definitely a lot more damage being done per episode. For 8 seasons now, we have watched what the kids have been exposed to time and time again. The thought of Kail doing something dangerous with the skydiving didn't even cross my mind until it was pointed out here. Great points @Uncle JUICE. You should be a lawyer. :-)  I think on a different show it might be something I can get behind (dangers of sports such as skydiving), but I think with Teen Mom we see so much shit that makes me shake my head that I can't get past the "normal" behaviors by the cast members that @Lm2162 pointed out such as the texting while driving, the posting on social media of Kail taking a photo while driving, Jeremy's photo of his toddler holding a gun, Jenelle and Nathan's DV episodes and neglect of their children, it goes on and on.

 

3 minutes ago, zenme said:

If I were married to Kail I'd have her go skydiving every weekend, get her a season pass to 6 Flags (for the roller coasters), and I'd buy her a motorcycle. 

LMAO

[leighroda]

I thought jenelles court scenes were funny because the cop was pretty casual asking what happened, and then Jenelles attorney would come in like she is auditioning for law and order... actually I have seen less dramatic questioning on law and order. Most of the defense questions were not directly related to the incident, I wonder if it had been a higher court if half those questions would have been allowed ( I understand the charge did not necessitate a higher court, I'm just saying "what if")

[GreatKazu]

3 minutes ago, leighroda said:

I thought jenelles court scenes were funny because the cop was pretty casual asking what happened, and then Jenelles attorney would come in like she is auditioning for law and order... actually I have seen less dramatic questioning on law and order. Most of the defense questions were not directly related to the incident, I wonder if it had been a higher court if half those questions would have been allowed ( I understand the charge did not necessitate a higher court, I'm just saying "what if")

I haven't watched anything so dramatic since the O.J. criminal trial. lol

[BitterApple]

5 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I haven't watched anything so dramatic since the O.J. criminal trial. lol

Lulz! I was waiting for them to bust out the infamous Mason jar, just like the OJ prosecutors did with the bloody glove.

[Spiderella2]

6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Lulz! I was waiting for them to bust out the infamous Mason jar, just like the OJ prosecutors did with the bloody glove.

Her lawyer, "Janelle, can you put your hand on this Mason jar filled with ice water, and show us how you threw it at Jessica?" Janelle half heartedly throws mason jar like her wrist is broken so it lands less than 6 inches from her. The mason jar rolls across the floor and lands at bailiffs feet. "Try again Janelle, with your dominant hand this time," her lawyer encourages. Janelle complies with the same result. 

"Your Honor and noble Jury, as you can see, my client does not have the grip strength to throw the mason jar with force. Obviously this good mother and good person could not have committed such an atrocious crime. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit...!"

[GreatKazu]

4 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Lulz! I was waiting for them to bust out the infamous Mason jar, just like the OJ prosecutors did with the bloody glove.

Seriously, I thought that was going to be brought out, inside an evidence bag, all sealed up nice and pretty with the "evidence" seal.

Nathan's downfall was not doing a Kato Kaelin impression on the stand. That would have garnered some sympathy.

[leighroda]

"If the jar don't hit, you must acquit"

[teapot]

1 hour ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Jo smokes but I can't  blame him. I would probably smoke too if I had to put up with Kail and Javi.

Corey, Cole, Jeremy & even Javi all work.  I have to give them props for that.  (unclear if Taylor works or not...if so, props to him as well)

[GreatKazu]

7 minutes ago, leighroda said:

"If the jar don't hit, you must acquit"

lol

Jenelle's lawyer: "Tell me Jessie, when the jar hit your head, did your wig fall off? "

[Snarky McSnarky]

18 minutes ago, teapot said:

Corey, Cole, Jeremy & even Javi all work.  I have to give them props for that.  (unclear if Taylor works or not...if so, props to him as well)

Taylor's job:

[CofCinci]

32 minutes ago, leighroda said:

"If the jar don't hit, you must acquit"

Can you imagine the Ryan Murphy version of this trial?

[ReadMeLattice]

9 minutes ago, teapot said:

Corey, Cole, Jeremy & even Javi all work.  I have to give them props for that.  (unclear if Taylor works or not...if so, props to him as well)

Chelsea still works right? Maci and Taylor only have the T shirt business as far as I know. 

[BitterApple]

I think Chelsea works part time, I'm not sure about the other two.

[FlowerofCarnage]

19 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

Can you imagine the Ryan Murphy version of this trial?

Kathy Bates can play Barb. Sarah Paulson can play Jenelle's lawyer or Jessica. Lol 

Edited January 4, 2017 by FlowerofCarnage

[Tatum]

8 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

Chelsea still works right? Maci and Taylor only have the T shirt business as far as I know. 

Someone on the Teen Mom thread said Taylor works full time, but provided no information on sources or even the job, so I am highly skeptical. There was one episode last year where Maci and Taylor were leaving the house together and Maci mentioned taking Jayde to daycare because they both had to go to work. I assumed though that she meant Taylor had conjured up some bullshit errand he had to run for his little Tshirt empire. Maci did work for some company as a social media expert, or something like that, which I took to mean she updates their twitter page a couple times a day. Not sure if she still has that job- think it was for like a Check to Cash or Payday or something like that? Last I remember Chelsea was working very part time, more like a hobby than an actual job (no shade there, she's the only one who actually does the day to day parenting of her child). Adam is supposedly a personal trainer, although I don't know if he actually has any clients. He probably just works out at the gym and offers his training services to the teenage girls there, which hopefully they don't accept.

Javi is active duty, but he sure has a lot of spare time. Corey, Cole, and Jeremy appear to be the only people with jobs that have somewhat full time hours.

[GreatKazu]

19 minutes ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Kathy Bates can play Barb. Sarah Paulson can play Jenelle's lawyer or Jessica. Lol 

I think Denis O'Hare as his character, Liz Taylor (Hotel), can play Jenelle's lawyer. lol

 

Quote

Javi is active duty, but he sure has a lot of spare time.

He sure does. He makes military life look so easy peasy.

What has happened with Kail and Javi on that Marriage Boot Camp crap show? I saw a "peak preview" on television, but I didn't see either one of them in the previews.

[Mkay]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

There is definitely a lot more damage being done per episode. For 8 seasons now, we have watched what the kids have been exposed to time and time again. The thought of Kail doing something dangerous with the skydiving didn't even cross my mind until it was pointed out here. Great points @Uncle JUICE. You should be a lawyer. :-)  I think on a different show it might be something I can get behind (dangers of sports such as skydiving), but I think with Teen Mom we see so much shit that makes me shake my head that I can't get past the "normal" behaviors by the cast members that @Lm2162 pointed out such as the texting while driving, the posting on social media of Kail taking a photo while driving, Jeremy's photo of his toddler holding a gun, Jenelle and Nathan's DV episodes and neglect of their children, it goes on and on.

 

LMAO

SHe went multiple times so that she could jump without someone attached to her I don't remember if she finished it or not. I'll go dig around. 

[GreatKazu]

@Mkay can you dig up the dates for the Mason jar trial and Jenelle's car accident? 

Also, how is it we know it was a Mason jar? Jenelle said cup. Where did we get Mason jar from?

[Mkay]

3 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Perhaps if Kail skydived a lot more, she'd stay out of trouble and make better life choices like not  marrying a guy for benefits and the chances for cheating would decrease.

Can someone figure out when Jenelle's court trial was and when she had that car accident? After the car crash she mentioned being ten weeks along in her pregnancy.

The car crash was July 6th.  http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2016/07/15/teen-mom-2-star-jenelle-evans-accidentally-confirms-her-third-pregnancy-after-months-of-denying-it/

 

On April 22nd, Ashley reported the court hearing verdict.  http://www.theashleysrealityroundup.com/2016/04/22/teen-mom-2-star-jenelle-evans-found-not-guilty-in-assault-battery-case/

[poopchute]

3 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Perhaps if Kail skydived a lot more, she'd stay out of trouble and make better life choices like not  marrying a guy for benefits and the chances for cheating would decrease.

Can someone figure out when Jenelle's court trial was and when she had that car accident? After the car crash she mentioned being ten weeks along in her pregnancy.

The car accident was July 6th and she was "at least 10 weeks" at that point.  Looks like her trial was April 22nd.

It looks like the reunion was the same weekend as her trial.  

@Mkay jinx!

Edited January 4, 2017 by poopchute

[StatisticalOutlier]

Okay, here are a couple of snippets from the South Carolina Justice Department's website:

"Prosecution of misdemeanor traffic and criminal violations in the summary courts may be made by the arresting officer or a supervisory officer assisting the arresting officer."  Someone upthread said s/he knew of cops serving as prosecutors in South Carolina, North Carolina, and some place else (Ohio?).  So apparently this is a real thing.

I also noticed this: 

"A newly appointed magistrate who is not an attorney licensed in this State may not preside over a trial until a certificate is filed with the Clerk of the Supreme Court stating that the magistrate has observed ten trials."

That could explain the, uh, casual nature of the trial.

[ReadMeLattice]

Seriously so weird. It looked like a rehearsal for a trial scene in a play by bad improv actors.

I was upset when I first found out Jenelle was acquitted, but after seeing the trial it makes perfect sense. Nathan's "testimony" was literally him just saying his gf was assaulted but offering no details, before going on a self centered diatribe about custody, seeing his son, and David calling him a female on Twitter. Granted, Jenelle's testimony included her saying she was a good person and mom, but the burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defense. I don't see how all that was even allowed. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lm2162