S01.E08: Invisible Self

[formerlyfreedom]

After OA recounts a dramatic final night at Hap's, the others begin to see her story in a new light. The fragments of the dream click into place.

[SlackerInc]

I'm not going to be watching this--too many warnings of New Ageyness, which is my Kryptonite--but I am curious about something  and hoping someone would indulge me when they've gotten this far.  Why, in the trailer, does it mention her being missing for seven years and then cut to a shot of a little girl who is obviously more like 25 years younger than she is?

Edited December 17, 2016 by SlackerInc
What I originally wrote made no sense

[vendredi3]

I'll admit, I've seen everything Brit Marling has written or starred in, so perhaps I'm biased. This series is outstanding. Granted, it does start to drag in episodes 4-6, like it was originally a movie script that's been stretched to fit eight episodes of a Netflix order. But the ending - and there is a satisfying ending - is worth it and answers questions. I don't expect a season 2. This is more like a brilliant mini-series.

[zxy556575]

13 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

Why, in the trailer, does it mention her being missing for seven years and then cut to a shot of a little girl who is obviously more like 25 years younger than she is?

Flashbacks/previous lives.  ;)

[vendredi3]

8 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Flashbacks/previous lives.  ;)

Exactly. A large part of the plot involves Brit Marling's character recounting her life story to a group of people, and she starts in her childhood.

[Infie]

Yeah, I've read some reviews that were pretty negative overall, but I have to say that I absolutely loved this series.  The only really 'eh? parts for me were about the nature of the movements, which seemed to be designed to look bizarre.  

I found it telling that the group all believed her wholeheartedly except for Alfonso, who was also the person who didn't want to close his eyes at the beginning of the story.  Alfonso gave up his belief pretty quickly, given that all he actually saw was an Amazon box with some books in it.  I also really liked that, although there was the whole ambiguity of whether or not her story was true in total, all of the things that we saw through other people's eyes supported the literal truth of what she was saying.  There was a bus crash in Russia (the web archive news), Lena was originally from Russia and her parents chose her over a baby boy (the parents' fight), she did go looking for her father (the note to her parents), she did end up in New York playing the violin (youtube video).  She did have premonitionary nightmares that caused her nose to bleed.  (Mom says so unprompted).  She does have markings on her shoulder that match the movements she was talking about.  She was blind and now can see.

(I excluded the youtube video of Homer because that was something we saw through Prairie's eyes and that could have been delusional.)

So, I think that there's lots to consider in deciding if she is telling truth or just telling her truth (a la Life of Pi), and I think it's really interesting to think about. 

[KateeBar]

Well. There were moments in the middle of the series where I questioned my commitment, but the ending made it all worthwhile. I still don't really get the movements, but I found myself choked up watching them in that ending. 

It's interesting - the whole thing left me with several questions, yet also not unfulfilled. I think it was pretty compelling storytelling overall. And I really enjoyed the cast. 

I'm just a well of profound insights. 

[Fat Elvis 007]

Am I the only one here who found the ending preposterous? 

It was one thing to watch the magical powers of interpretive dance solve equally ridiculous problems. "One of the psychic hostages has been murdered by our captor! DANCE AT IT" legit made me cry. It was a beautiful scene. "We need to heal this woman with ALS!! DANCE AT IT" less so, but still fairly compelling. "Columbine! DANCE AT IT" simply pushed my suspension of disbelief past its limit. You can't just bring up such a serious and realistic issue as a last minute plot device and then solve it through the most ridiculous magical element of your entire series. It was borderline offensive.

Even worse that there was no foreshadowing for this and we literally don't even know who the shooter was. I feel like there were ways they could have justified this at least a bit more. The first episode had OA expressing empathy for violent people, talking about how our dimension was "breaking down" and people like Steve were feeling it and reacting with violence. If we had seen this happening with the shooter it may have at least felt more natural and organic, and may have tied in with the themes better. 

I still enjoyed the series, and the pilot is one of my favorite things ever. But just a terrible, terrible ending. 

[bilgistic]

I loved it. It was draggy in places and some things were hand wavey--it had its issues as do all things, but I think it was incredibly well done and better than Stranger Things, which has kiiiind of a similar premise if you squint.

I wept at the end, and I have a charred pile of ashes where my heart should be.

Loved! It!

[kieyra]

Watched/skimmed the first four episodes, skipped to the end. Not my kind of show, but wanted to find out what was going on. (Didn't work, apparently I missed too much. No idea what was going on. I don't do well with crazy oblique storytelling.)

I guess it was sort of the spiritual successor to Donnie Darko? 

P.S., if you're skipping to the final episode thread to find out what happened to Homer, I don't think we know.

Edited December 19, 2016 by kieyra

[formerlyfreedom]

38 minutes ago, kieyra said:

P.S., if you're skipping to the final episode thread to find out what happened to Homer, I don't think we know.

You are correct. We don't know what happened to Homer. Or if he even really existed.

I watched the whole thing pretty quickly. I'm still going over it in my head, more than 24 hours after finishing. I feel that the movements hurt the show, because yes, it looked like interpretive dance was the solution to everything? And I was both laughing and crying during the lunchroom scene - because of how silly it was on the one hand, and on the other hand - the actors totally pulled this off. They committed. I'm amazed.

I think it would be best for this to end here - I've heard nothing on a second season, and I really hope there isn't because I can't handle any more snot filled crying/hysterical laughing jags in my life anytime soon...

[kieyra]

I was honestly too dumbfounded by the dance stuff to even laugh.

Although it explains why she insisted repeatedly in the pilot that the five had to be "flexible". 

[Infie]

To be fair, I don't think that the dance in the cafeteria 'solved' anything at all, aside perhaps from dumbfounding the shooter into immobility ,long enough for him to be tackled to the ground.

On the other hand, it *might* have opened the gate... or it might have done nothing and she went through the gate by dying again.

Fun either way, for me.

Also, regardless of whether the dance got anyone anywhere, the actors really pulled that off.  Holy crap - great unison and (as earlier poster wrote) absolute commitment.  Well done.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, kieyra said:

I guess it was sort of the spiritual successor to Donnie Darko?

I really, really love Donnie Darko, too. It makes me wail. I'm really usually not that easy at all.

You'd have to pay me to watch a romantic comedy, for instance.

I've recommended this show to my sister and mother. I can see it being "too weird" (a little toi sci-fi) for my mom.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bilgistic

[madam magpie]

The dancing/movements were absolutely ridiculous. I'd have really enjoyed this if not for that.

[RachelKM]

Well, I watched it.  The completionist in me demanded it (and the goodwill Emory Cohen engendered when I watched Brooklyn last night got me through 5 episodes all by itself).  But I cannot say I liked it.  I think part of it was that I liked, or was at least more interested in, everyone more than OA herself.  Also, it was sort of meandering and oddly paced. 

And also,

On 12/18/2016 at 9:09 PM, madam magpie said:

The dancing/movements were absolutely ridiculous. 

This.  It sort of took me out of the story every time they started it. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by RachelKM

[millennium]

On 12/19/2016 at 1:52 AM, RachelKM said:

 

This.  It sort of took me out of the story every time they starting it. 

It was like an old Saturday Night Live Sketch:  I'm Leonard Pinth Garnell.  Won't you join me for another episode of Bad Interpretive Dance?   How could anyone pitch this series with a straight face?   Worse, how could anyone green-light it for development?

What a suckfest.   You know how Alfonso felt when he found Prairie's stash of books?  That's how I felt at the end of this foolishness.   Like I'd been royally had.  

[RedHackle]

Well I loved it, and no amount of negativity from the cynics will change that.  And I have absolutely no belief in angels or even an afterlife.  (But other dimensions, sure, why not?) I just thought it was great storytelling.

I thought the 5 movements were gorgeous - it was like a cross between yoga, a Haka, and Twyla Tharp.  As someone else here noted, it's not so much the movements themselves as it was how fully all the actors committed to them.

At first, I got a little bummed out during the first episode - the shopping at Costco or WalMart or whatever - those bulk stores make me break out in hives.  It's the lighting more than anything else that does me in. But at least they showed them shopping at the kinds of places real people shop. But also, at first I didn't like that she was getting involved with Psycho Boy.   But like I said, as soon as she started telling her story, I was all in.

I know a lot of people had problems with some of the loose ends, but I really didn't.

Re: her books -  isn't it possible that she bought those books recently - because they were related to her life and ordeal? And that she wasn't so much hiding them under her bed as just keeping them private. That may be a stretch, but I didn't really have a problem understanding that. Also, with Elias showing up at her house - she and her family had disappeared, and he is a FEEB after all - I can see him going to the house to check on her and maybe seeing French moving around inside make him want to go in and investigate. I don't see that as a problem.

As for the other stuff - whether it happened or didn't, or if the five movements stopped the shooter or just distracted him - it doesn't matter. Story works either way for me.

My one issue is that I really wanted to know more about Buck. But I also like a little that his story was treated so matter-of-fact. We know that Winchell was selling him testosterone, and at one point Buck's Dad is calling him, and at first is calling for "Michelle", before switching to calling for Buck. (Assuming I got that right and didn't just completely misunderstand something.) So my assumption is that Buck is transitioning, FtM. Anyway, I would have liked to know more about him.

I have one question that you smart folks may be able to answer - the end credits said "In Memory of Allison Wilke". I went online to figure out who she was, and all I was able to find was that she was a young woman who died. Anyone know her relation to the story or to the show runners?

[vendredi3]

1 hour ago, RedHackle said:

I have one question that you smart folks may be able to answer - the end credits said "In Memory of Allison Wilke". I went online to figure out who she was, and all I was able to find was that she was a young woman who died. Anyone know her relation to the story or to the show runners?

I'm not smart, but I do have a answer. She is a producer on the series whose professional name is A.W. Gryphon. Her IMDb page lists Allison Wilke as an alternate name. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1112661/

[millennium]

2 hours ago, RedHackle said:

Well I loved it, and no amount of negativity from the cynics will change that. 

Oh.   Does having an opinion that this was a vanity project gone terribly wrong, a half-baked story written, produced and acted by a minimally talented writer/producer/actress, and burdened by a moronic conceit that interpretive dance opens doors to other dimensions make me a cynic?

Edited December 20, 2016 by millennium

[kimbrchick]

I really enjoyed this. I had no idea what it was about when my husband said this new show just came out on Netflix. We got sucked right in and binge watched it in a few days. I'd never heard of this actress and was surprised to find out she wrote it as well. I liked the characters. I liked how the group of random people with very little in common ended up totally having each others backs by the end. They shared something. The believed OA and committed to learning those movements. The end was so scary and moving. BBA going back in for "her boys".

Was all of that a product of her mental illness? She did have premonition dreams and nosebleeds. I don't plan on dissecting this show. The characters and their relationships is what touches me more.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, kimbrchick said:

 

Was all of that a product of her mental illness? She did have premonition dreams and nosebleeds. I don't plan on dissecting this show. The characters and their relationships is what touches me more.

The story strongly suggests that the whole abduction experience was a purposeful deception on the part of Nina/Prairie.   The stash of books from which she could have cobbled together the lie points in that direction, as does the fact that she once she got on better meds she enrolled in an online creative writing course (which came out of the blue and stuck out like a sore thumb).

But if that's the case, where was she for 7 years (her disappearance is not in question).  How was her sight restored?   How did she come to be on the bridge in the first scene?  

I won't mind if these questions are never answered.   Better this whole mess, and its creator, just go away.

[Sakura12]

I enjoyed the series, it has it's issues but so do most series. It did what it was supposed to, keep me engaged and interested to find out the ending. The dance moves were strange but I agree all the actors committing to performing them made me accept them. 

The whole was it a product of her mental illness or was it real mystery is probably something I don't need answered. Keeping it a mystery works better. But I do think the fact that she can see again points towards some kind of truth. 

I also think the dancing confused the shooter so he could be tackled. It had nothing to do with it being spiritual or anything. The whole school was probably like WTF?

[numbnut]

On 12/18/2016 at 3:22 PM, Fat Elvis 007 said:

Am I the only one here who found the ending preposterous? 

You're not alone. So there's no evidence of where she was and who she met for 7 years and how she regained her sight? *sigh* The story went from Egoyan territory to Shyamalan pretty quick. ("Swing away!") It also reminded me of Identity, which started out as one thing then took an abrupt turn into absurdity at the last minute.

On 12/18/2016 at 3:22 PM, Fat Elvis 007 said:

Even worse that there was no foreshadowing for this and we literally don't even know who the shooter was. I feel like there were ways they could have justified this at least a bit more. The first episode had OA expressing empathy for violent people, talking about how our dimension was "breaking down" and people like Steve were feeling it and reacting with violence. If we had seen this happening with the shooter it may have at least felt more natural and organic, and may have tied in with the themes better. 

The lack of foreshadowing confused me -- I first thought Steve was the shooter before he dove under a table.

3 hours ago, millennium said:

once she got on better meds she enrolled in an online creative writing course (which came out of the blue and stuck out like a sore thumb).

Yup, that was pretty clunky and super late. Overall, the show just had too much exposition for me. I groaned when the ALS woman also had a story for OA to narrate. I'm also not a fan of Emory Cohen, so there's that.

18 hours ago, millennium said:

You know how Alfonso felt when he found Prairie's stash of books?  That's how I felt at the end of this foolishness.   Like I'd been royally had.  

It did have that "it was all a dream" quality. I would have liked the show better if it had fully committed to the mad scientist premise instead of abruptly switching to a live art installation about school shootings.

Edited December 21, 2016 by numbnut

[formerlyfreedom]

It's funny, the longer I'm away from the show, the more I like it. It was far from perfect, but it's really given me a lot of things to think about. This time of year, it's nice to have something to focus on that's outside my actual reality. I may do a rewatch this weekend - there was some true beauty in the filming that I'd like to re-visit.

[madam magpie]

1 hour ago, numbnut said:

It did have that "it was all a dream" quality. I would have liked the show better if it had fully committed to the mad scientist premise instead of abruptly switching to a live art installation about school shootings

Or if it had committed to the absurd. I watch a lot of sci-fi and can buy everything from "our troubled space hero is an angel" to "let's climb in this orb and travel through time" to "we've cloned people from some woman's absorbed fraternal twin," but a story needs to pick a tone and commit to it. The interpretive dance came out of nowhere, looked totally bizarre, and had no foundation to ground it. There was a spiritual element to the story, sure, but in a fairly accessible way: near death experiences, speaking to people on the other side, etc. But the dance had no tether to reality. And holy hell...the ALS lady having the last movement was a whole lot of..."WTF?? Come on!" For me, anyway.

For what its worth, I don't think Prairie was lying. As someone else mentioned, she can now see. That's a tangible bit of evidence that she couldn't fake. Plus if the dance "worked," as we're led to believe with the school shooter being thwarted, its more evidence. The most damming book was Homer, but the others just could speak to her own interest in her experience. Also didn't she find a video of Homer on the internet? Did she show it to the other kids? If not, why would Homer in the story take on the look of the guy in the video unless it were really him?

That said, if she was lying, the story was a product of her mental illness, and and she totally played the kids/teacher, I think I'd like the show more.

[Pii Eu]

please guys forget about the bizarre stuff, my point is: who is the shooter? Is he the one of coral that lose her singer voice? If he is, we have to remeber the FBA man saying that the dreams can be a alert from subconscious. And like Mr Robot in prision i think the story that she told can show us tracks about what really happen with her in the last seven years.

The afonso talk in car about she dont talk about her parents and she trying to get in the 5 another family is very interesting. Also the shooter scene shows how she (even been crazy) torn the 5 closer and can change their lifes (when she been hurted with the pencil she say that the Important is they stay together).

Edited December 21, 2016 by Pii Eu

[Sakura12]

They didn't show the shooters face, I could've bought it being the singer that Steve punched in the throat. But it could've been any kid in the school, we only spent time with a few of them.  

[Lemons]

On December 20, 2016 at 9:05 PM, Sakura12 said:

 

I also think the dancing confused the shooter so he could be tackled. It had nothing to do with it being spiritual or anything. The whole school was probably like WTF?

I think the shooter would have been confused for about ten seconds and then they would be his first targets

i didn't understand why the FBI guy was at the house when the kid broke in and found the books.  was it because the FBI planted the books because they know more than they are letting on?

I hated the ending and not knowing what happened to the other people.  They were just as important in the story as she was.

[Glade]

On 12/20/2016 at 6:29 AM, RedHackle said:

Re: her books -  isn't it possible that she bought those books recently - because they were related to her life and ordeal? And that she wasn't so much hiding them under her bed as just keeping them private.

I agree, I don't see the books as proving anything.  I also loved this series, despite being an atheist.  It did things for me that 'stranger things' definitely did not.  I loved the characters,  and the focus on uplifting boys. 

[Grommet]

I also found this far more engrossing than Stranger Things.  I'm not spiritual or religious, so I guess what I liked was how the 5 supported her and each other. The actors really did commit in that cafeteria scene and I thought it was a fitting ending.  

[Silly Angel]

Oh, wow. None of it was true? Glad we spent 6 freaking episodes in the nonexistent bunker. I want my time back. Can I do an interpretive dance to get it? Which four of you will join me?

I feel like there was some deep solipsism at play here—we're supposed to care so much for Prairie (blech with the name)/OA, the young, blond and beautiful heroine, while all the people in the supposed bunker were just nobodies and there was no Big Bad after all. The Christ imagery was just a blind to cover the fact that the young, blond, beautiful woman at the center of it all had super-accurate nose-bleedy hunches, and died a martyr for it. As for the students and Betty who danced with her, I agree with the posters who said their weirdness distracted the shooter, who in a real situation would have aimed at them.

I can't shake the feeling that 95% of the story we were led to be invested in added up to nothing. I have been bored, outraged, confused, mildly amused, frustrated and charmed by various TV series, but feeling rooked is a whole different kettle of sea slug.

[Sakura12]

I don't know if it's not true. She left home blind then came back with her sight. That points to something happening to her. 

[Anela]

On December 18, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Infie said:

To be fair, I don't think that the dance in the cafeteria 'solved' anything at all, aside perhaps from dumbfounding the shooter into immobility ,long enough for him to be tackled to the ground.

On the other hand, it *might* have opened the gate... or it might have done nothing and she went through the gate by dying again.

Fun either way, for me.

Also, regardless of whether the dance got anyone anywhere, the actors really pulled that off.  Holy crap - great unison and (as earlier poster wrote) absolute commitment.  Well done.

 

On December 20, 2016 at 11:29 AM, RedHackle said:

Well I loved it, and no amount of negativity from the cynics will change that.  And I have absolutely no belief in angels or even an afterlife.  (But other dimensions, sure, why not?) I just thought it was great storytelling.

I thought the 5 movements were gorgeous - it was like a cross between yoga, a Haka, and Twyla Tharp.  As someone else here noted, it's not so much the movements themselves as it was how fully all the actors committed to them.

At first, I got a little bummed out during the first episode - the shopping at Costco or WalMart or whatever - those bulk stores make me break out in hives.  It's the lighting more than anything else that does me in. But at least they showed them shopping at the kinds of places real people shop. But also, at first I didn't like that she was getting involved with Psycho Boy.   But like I said, as soon as she started telling her story, I was all in.

I know a lot of people had problems with some of the loose ends, but I really didn't.

Re: her books -  isn't it possible that she bought those books recently - because they were related to her life and ordeal? And that she wasn't so much hiding them under her bed as just keeping them private. That may be a stretch, but I didn't really have a problem understanding that. Also, with Elias showing up at her house - she and her family had disappeared, and he is a FEEB after all - I can see him going to the house to check on her and maybe seeing French moving around inside make him want to go in and investigate. I don't see that as a problem.

As for the other stuff - whether it happened or didn't, or if the five movements stopped the shooter or just distracted him - it doesn't matter. Story works either way for me.

My one issue is that I really wanted to know more about Buck. But I also like a little that his story was treated so matter-of-fact. We know that Winchell was selling him testosterone, and at one point Buck's Dad is calling him, and at first is calling for "Michelle", before switching to calling for Buck. (Assuming I got that right and didn't just completely misunderstand something.) So my assumption is that Buck is transitioning, FtM. Anyway, I would have liked to know more about him.

I have one question that you smart folks may be able to answer - the end credits said "In Memory of Allison Wilke". I went online to figure out who she was, and all I was able to find was that she was a young woman who died. Anyone know her relation to the story or to the show runners?

 

On December 20, 2016 at 5:23 PM, kimbrchick said:

I really enjoyed this. I had no idea what it was about when my husband said this new show just came out on Netflix. We got sucked right in and binge watched it in a few days. I'd never heard of this actress and was surprised to find out she wrote it as well. I liked the characters. I liked how the group of random people with very little in common ended up totally having each others backs by the end. They shared something. The believed OA and committed to learning those movements. The end was so scary and moving. BBA going back in for "her boys".

Was all of that a product of her mental illness? She did have premonition dreams and nosebleeds. I don't plan on dissecting this show. The characters and their relationships is what touches me more.

The teacher going back for her boys, made me cry. I wish there had been more to the ending (I also thought the dance had more of a WTF effect on the shooter), and I'd like to know what happened to the others. I missed her getting shot, though - I thought she was still running when they started their dance.

On December 22, 2016 at 0:59 AM, Lemons said:

I think the shooter would have been confused for about ten seconds and then they would be his first targets

i didn't understand why the FBI guy was at the house when the kid broke in and found the books.  was it because the FBI planted the books because they know more than they are letting on?

I hated the ending and not knowing what happened to the other people.  They were just as important in the story as she was.

I also wondered if that guy planted the books, or if he'd made comparisons to The Illiad, so she ordered the book, and others that related to her experience. She was blind before, so the Amazon order must have been a recent thing. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Anela

[millennium]

On 12/22/2016 at 2:08 PM, Glade said:

I agree, I don't see the books as proving anything.  I also loved this series, despite being an atheist.  It did things for me that 'stranger things' definitely did not.  I loved the characters,  and the focus on uplifting boys. 

The inclusion of The Iliad in the bunch was stupid.   The subject matter of every other book was directly related to the story she told, then there's The Iliad, entirely unrelated to her story except for the fact that it happened to be written by a guy named Homer.   I might have said "well, okay" if it had been Homer's Odyssey, the story of a hero overcoming challenges to find his way home after his family believed him dead (akin to Prairie's 7-year disappearance).   But it was The Iliad.   Dumb.

[LilaFowler]

If Nina/Prairie/The OA had psychic ability, she could have been preparing them for the day of the shooting all along.  They get up and do their little dance, thereby distracting him long enough for him to get tackled by a member of the kitchen staff.  If they don't do that, perhaps they would all be killed along with countless others.  They don't do their interpretive dance unless they hear her story and agree to learn the moves.  Prairie does for some reason feel that she needs to be at the school at that precise moment. 

Or it could all mostly be a hoax invented by a mentally disturbed woman.  There was footage of her on the subway, maybe that's how she spent most of the last seven years.  Her sight returned as a result of bumping her head on the subway pillar the first time she goes down there. 

I'm not sure that I want answers.  It was an engrossing series but I have a feeling that I'm not going to like the direction that the show would take either way:  supernatural or entirely based in reality.  The five did their dance in sync and what if it worked?  What if it didn't?  What would the show do?  Again, I'm not sure I want to know.

[formerlyfreedom]

3 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I'm not sure that I want answers.  It was an engrossing series but I have a feeling that I'm not going to like the direction that the show would take either way:  supernatural or entirely based in reality.  The five did their dance in sync and what if it worked?  What if it didn't?  What would the show do?  Again, I'm not sure I want to know.

This is where I'm coming down on the show. It was fascinating to watch, and it made me think, even if sometimes, my thinking was "Well, that's sure dumb." I think in the end, it made all of the five (Betty, Steve, Buck, Jesse, and French) better people, in different ways.

A side note - I was talking to a friend while watching the first episode (she did not watch), and we were talking about what "The OA" might mean - she threw out a number of thoughts, and I said, "I think it means The Original Angel" - without really having any idea that that was what it was going to end up being. I'm still a little spooked about that a week later.

[jaigurudeva]

It is objective fact, based on her medical examination, that she was kept underground, near a mine, for a longer period of time (vitamin D deficiency, dental decay, metal residue, copper found in the scars of her back).  So why does the FBI assume it's all a fabrication based on some books they find in her room (which were clearly all purchased after the fact, given that they're all not in braille)?  According to Elias, they haven't even questioned her about the nature of her abduction, just what she's been doing since her return.  So they don't even have the identity of her assailant?  OA knows his full name, Hunter Aloysius Percy.  Even if it is a pseudonym (even though his former colleage Leon and the Sheriff call him Hap), they have the manpower and resources to cross-reference white, middle-aged, male retired anesthesiologists with pilot licenses.

They know she was kept near a mine, but they never check satellite imagery of abandoned copper mines within 500 miles of New York city with nearby houses to search?  They know she was kept with other captives, but never ask for their names to check with missing persons reports?  Sure, she doesn't want to (or have to) tell them about the more bizarre aspects because she doesn't want to get "locked up" in an asylum, but she can at least tell them that much to go on to corroborate her story and possibly even find her friends.  They probably wouldn't be able to perform the Five Movements Dance "with feeeeeeling" when they perform it with the captor that's tormented them for years, so they may not even be on the other side, yet.

Even when the boys are trying to find proof, you'd think Leon's story would've made national headlines: "Human Experiments Discovered After Doctor Found Dead in Hospital Morgue." Or did the nurse Hap speak with just shrug him off as a weirdo and never look into it?  What about the double murder (or mysterious disappearance) of a small town sheriff and his wife?  What about Homer's Youtube video that Prairie, without having used a computer in 7 years (and never before with sight) found in about five minutes?

But then it seems like, in the end, even OA felt it was all fiction.  She was no longer desperately trying to reach the other side.  She was taking medication, enrolling in school, gardening with her father, and moving on with her family.  Then her premonition, the shooting, and her NDE (which we see outside of her narrative frame) throws the supernatural monkeywrench back into reality.  Plot holes and shaky character motivation try to cast a little doubt onto OA's story, but when all that and more happens outside of OA's narrative frame, the audience can't believe the writer's story, not just OA's story. It's like if, at the end of The Life of Pi, once Pi has told his ambiguous tales and asked his audience to decide for themselves, the Japanese officials (or biographer, in the movie) walk outside and get mauled by Richard Parker.

We're meant to be wondering "was it real?" and not "is this for real?"

[KaleyFirefly]

On 12/20/2016 at 2:22 PM, millennium said:

Oh.   Does having an opinion that this was a vanity project gone terribly wrong, a half-baked story written, produced and acted by a minimally talented writer/producer/actress, and burdened by a moronic conceit that interpretive dance opens doors to other dimensions make me a cynic?

Best description of this pretentious pile of crap.

[numbnut]

Quote

On 12/20/2016 at 9:58 AM, vendredi3 said:

The Russian schoolbus accident in episode 1 reminded me of The Sweet Hereafter.

Quote

Yeah, that too. I was thinking of Felicia's Journey and The Captive. I first thought Khatun was Egoyan's actress wife Arsinée Khanjian. After watching a few more eps, it's clear that Marling/Batmanglij are Egoyan fans. Even the tone and cinematography of the show are Egoyanian.

I forgot about Egoyan's Adoration in which an orphan tells his high school classmates an imagined story about his violinist mother (see pic) as he questions his parents' death. While the OA is certainly a unique TV series, Marling is like Prairie and her collection of books as she has cobbled together a fantastical story using Egoyan movie moments (too many to list here) and scenarios (The Sweet Hereafter's school bus of kids plunging into an icy river; Felicia's Journey's naive girl who goes far from home to search for her boyfriend only to be offered "help" by a serial killer; The Captive's parents who reunite with their daughter after she was held captive by a pedophile for 8 years, etc.).

[KaleyFirefly]

Let me start by saying that I think it's extremely lazy screenwriting to write a really vague ending and then say it's up the audience to interpret it (as the creators have said in interviews). I almost didn't finish this series as I found it irritating and only watched to see how it ended. "Mr. Robot" does the "unreliable narrator" thing about a million times better.

That said, here is my interpretation / 2 cents as to what was real and what wasn't:

1. Her childhood in Russia was not real. She grew up an orphan in a house run by a Russian lady (note the difference between how this "aunt" of hers acts in her flashback story -- concerned, caring -- to how the Russian lady acts in real life with Abel and Nancy -- not caring about the blind girl much at all. She created the fanciful story to not feel abandoned by her real parents.

2. She ran away from home -- real. Whether or not she really was abducted by a psychopath or was in some crazy cult or what is unclear.

3. She regained her sight -- real. But could have caused by a blow to the head.

4. She is mentally ill and suffering PTSD from some trauma. It's possible she really did have an NDE from drowning as a child. 

5. Her fellow captives -- probably not real. I say this because after Hap supposedly lets her go and she is back in the world again, she does not give any useful info to the FBI to help them find the prisoners. If the guy I loved, plus 3 others that I considered family, were being held prisoner in a basement, I would stop at nothing to try to find them. She has a lot of info she could give the police/FBI -- descriptions of Hap, his name, his PO Box address, description of how far from New York, etc. But she doesn't even try. Also, later she is gardening and taking creative writing classes, and is not even trying to rescue them. Because they were not real.

Also, if they were real, why doesn't any of the 5 present day people find any evidence of them when googling? How many teenage football players named Homer who had an NDE could there be? It wouldn't be that hard to confirm her story with internet research. 

The fact that Hap "lets her go" is a totally unrealistic detail in her story. A control freak like him would never just let her walk away. It's possible that he was made up too -- maybe she was not kidnapped by a scientist, but just a run-of-the-mill psycho. To help herself cope, she made up the story about the science experiments. How could she have carved symbols on her own back? What would she have used to do it, she didn't have a knife in her cage.

6. The only maybe real supernatural element is her premonition dreams.

I think this whole thing is like a rip-off of "Life of Pi" with a bit of "Anastasia" thrown in.

Edited December 27, 2016 by KaleyFirefly
fix typo

[Negritude]

I actually thought the choreography for the movements was kinda dope, hissing aside.  It reminded me of something Sonya Tayeh would do for any of you SYTYCD watchers out there. Update: I just saw that the same choreographer that did Sia's "Chandelier" video choreographed the movements.

I liked the casual diversity of the cast.  It wasn't all token-y and it wasn't hitting you over the head.  The story itself was so bizarre you barely had time to notice.  Oh, there's an Asian trans character played by an actual Asian trans actor! Oh hey there striving, overachiever Asian kid, seen you before...but wait, you have a drug and drink addled single mother? That's different (loved the actress playing French's mom).  Not to mention those two characters had a hint of possible attraction between them and it was implied in the cafeteria scene that Buck was looking longingly at another boy he was sitting next to.  Kid with the gay older sister!  Phyllis from The Office!  I know she's a known actor but she's still unconventional looking by Hollywood standards.

Another poster mentioned the uplifting of boys in the story and I also liked that.

As someone whose fantasy it is to be a screenwriter, when I see pieces like this, no matter how many loose ends are left or how frustrating the ending, I always marvel at the depth of the writer's imagination. Just like, wow, how did you come up with that!  Brit Marling also wrote "Another Earth" so clearly this trippy, emo kind of sci-fi is her jam.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Negritude

[Sakura12]

I think Brit Marling has some intriguing ideas for stories, she probably just needs someone to help her with the development aspect. I'm glad Netflix is giving people a chance to grow their craft. 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Sakura12

[theOAfc]

So her saying "Homer?" at the end indicates that maybe the dance movements indeed opened an invisible portal for her to go to another dimension. No? 

Well my theory is that next season will start with her being inside a mental hospital(she was wearing white clothes at the last scene) . But i think(or hope) it will be revealed she is indeed in another timeline.

[KaleyFirefly]

2 hours ago, theOAfc said:

So her saying "Homer?" at the end indicates that maybe the dance movements indeed opened an invisible portal for her to go to another dimension. No? 

Well my theory is that next season will start with her being inside a mental hospital(she was wearing white clothes at the last scene) . But i think(or hope) it will be revealed she is indeed in another timeline.

She is in the other dimension because she died again. The weird stupid-looking movements didn't do anything except distract the shooter (amazing he didn't shoot them when they popped up to do their silly dance.)

[Paloma]

When she said "Homer?" at the end, it looked like she was in a white-tiled room, which made me think it was a mental institution--but I could be wrong about what it looked like, since I wasn't expecting the final scene and didn't look at it carefully. (I could rewatch it but don't have the patience.) If she was in another dimension after dying, I would have expected it to look more like the dark starry place where she had gone before with NDEs. 

I thought the ending (before that final "Homer?" scene) was well done and thought-provoking, but I was really frustrated by the lack of follow-up on looking for Hap and the captives. It didn't have to be either/or--they could have had both the metaphysical aspects and the real-world story. I would watch a second season if they promised to give answers to the real-world story (or to explain where she was and how she got the scars if Hap and the captives were not real).

[numbnut]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

When she said "Homer?" at the end, it looked like she was in a white-tiled room, which made me think it was a mental institution--but I could be wrong about what it looked like, since I wasn't expecting the final scene and didn't look at it carefully. (I could rewatch it but don't have the patience.) If she was in another dimension after dying, I would have expected it to look more like the dark starry place where she had gone before with NDEs. 

I thought the ending (before that final "Homer?" scene) was well done and thought-provoking, but I was really frustrated by the lack of follow-up on looking for Hap and the captives. It didn't have to be either/or--they could have had both the metaphysical aspects and the real-world story. I would watch a second season if they promised to give answers to the real-world story (or to explain where she was and how she got the scars if Hap and the captives were not real).

I wouldn't be surprised if they reveal that she was institutionalized with Homer and the others for seven years, and that Hap is one of the doctors that she incorporated into her story.

[Paloma]

numbnut, now that would make sense--though I'd still need an explanation for the scars and regaining her sight.

[Guest]

Hm.  I too thought of Life of Pi, which I loved.  This, not so much, but I'm still mulling it over.  

Here's my issue-- if she made it up, then we wasted a lot of hours with that story and never did find out the real one.   Where was she and what happened?  There's an implicit agreement to me with these things that if the viewer invests 8 hours, she'll find out what happened.  

If she didn't make it up, I dislike that it ended with the captives still captive and Hap unpunished.  And that she never really let anyone try to find them through normal means.  

I was never clear if this other dimension she planned to meet Homer in was in death or what.  I don't like stories that assume we remain these distinct personalities with these wishes and traits after death, like in The Lovely Bones.  That's a very narrow minded and bleak view to me.  Or did she plan to meet him in that black nether region and re-enter life together, outside the lab somehow?  

If she made it up, why were we shown those scenes of Hap and the other doctor?   Is it like the writers embellishing a character's made-up story by showing scenes the character had no insight about?  Seems like dirty pool.  

The dance at the end reminded me of that early Glee episode where the football team started doing the Single Ladies dance in the middle of the game to stun the other team into letting them slip into the end zone.  

Things I liked were it was visually interesting and held my interest and it was unpredictable.  I'm glad I was wrong about the pencil stab.  Though why it happened, I have no idea.  

Did they explain why she jumped off the bridge?  To die, to get back to Homer?  Then she decided to change to dancing instead?  

I don't know, I feel a little punked, kind of like when Lost ended.  I guess it's better than a lot of other tv, though.  

[numbnut]

21 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Did they explain why she jumped off the bridge?  To die, to get back to Homer?  Then she decided to change to dancing instead?

The bridge incident is what makes the whole show seem pointless. If dying is the only way to get back to Homer or her dad or whatever it is she was trying to accomplish by jumping off the bridge, why not try suicide again instead going through all this convoluted storytelling? If she needs five dancers to complete an urgent mission, why jump off the bridge?