S14.E02: Southern Hospitality

[chiaros]

On 12/9/2016 at 0:15 AM, Ms Lark said:

Huh. I was pissed that the pork loin bozo who wasted a good chunk of their budget and then poorly cooked the meat was kept. Surprised no one threw him under the bus on that account. Oh, well. Thought the watery squash guy would have been next in line. Surprised Annie got it, her tart was a really pretty presentation. Guess soggy bottoms are a deal breaker here, too.

Nice that Casey got the win for her collards. I'm always happy when a veg wins.

22 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

The food in Charleston is amazing.  Not necessarily traditional southern cooking as was presented in this episode.  I was a bit confused about the chef who was eliminated-she said she didn't want to make a tomato pie, but that a prestigious newspaper wrote an article about her green tomato tarts.  So, she was experienced with the dish that she served, but could not adjust to the timing and shared kitchen scenario.  Is this correct?  If so, the fail was all on her.

The squash casserole chef also burned his broccoli, so maybe he had to adapt on the run.  However, he is also the chef who burned vegetables last week and PROMISED us that he would not burn his veggies this week.  Epic fail.

Pork chef had the gall to yell at the others at Whole Foods about eliminating all unnecessary ingredients after ensuring that his huge pork loin was covered.  It also looked like he bought way more pork than he needed.  Of course, the other chefs could have all agreed to a $50 per chef budget and followed it.  Pretty impressive that the favorite dishes were all primarily vegetable dishes which were probably much less expensive than the meat dishes (yes, I realize the crab gravy had blue crab in it).  So, pork chef was an entitled hypocrite fail.

I was pleased the top three were vegetable-focused dishes. Casey's collards sounded and looked lovely.** John Tesar's rice & okra dish was delectable-looking and sounding too. (Yes, he can cook) Sheldon's eggplant dish might entice me away from my general eggplant-dislike.

BJ Smith (the pork fella) should have gone home. He vaguely stirs up memories of that obnoxious chap with the ridiculous curly-pointed mustache on TC Seattle, where that chap also constantly thought he was All-That-and-a-Pork-Expert to boot (and who ignored and dissed advice from John Tesar, advice which was correct)

Annie ought to have survived - but she is, as others have also commented, not cut out for this reality game show.

** I myself rarely, if ever, cook collards for hours and hours in the "Southern Style". I usually cook them quite quickly, in soups or stir-fries or whatnot, where they retain "toothsomeness". I would julienne them or slice them as appropriate. If I use young or baby collards, I even have to make sure I don't go over 5-10 minutes otherwise they turn to disgusting mush. Whether I de-rib the leaves or not affects what I do with them or how long I cook them for, to a point; but the notion that the "only way" to cook collards is hours-long (as some posters on a "cooking-experts-heavy" food forum I used to participate on insisted was the correct way) is incorrect.

[snarktini]

Just remembered how Biscuit lady said her family's biscuits were double the fat: "If you're going to eat a biscuit, eat a biscuit." Which sounds delicious, of course. She also said they served them at every meal growing up. Can you imagine? Biscuits must make up half their calories! And they're thin!

[avecsans]

That shrimp boil looked delicious.  I could eat that every day.

I am having Paula Deen flashbacks with the exaggerated "y'alls" and all the talk about cooking with love.  The biscuit woman with the two little girls particularly bugged me.  It's food.  You're not in a competition to see who is the most Southern person in the south.  I am glad I am not the only one who's already fed up with the veterans vs. rookies.  I watch Top Chef for the cooking, not for the drama.  

Why does Gail always get the raw piece of meat?

[JES004]

On 12/9/2016 at 10:24 AM, PepperMonkey said:

Enjoying this season so far.

Sam and Casey always seem so smug to me. Wish I could shake that, especially with Sam, because I want to like him as much as I did before the "Marcel incident." Having said that, both of their dishes for the family dinner looked awesome.

 

I think Marcel might have driven me to do something to him (okay, I probably would just have shorted sheeted his bed, but that's because I am not a violent person).

Tom and I have a similar hate for Okra, so that would be interesting to have tried a dish that even Tom liked.  

I'm rooting for Brooke.  And Jim.

 

"I am having Paula Deen flashbacks with the exaggerated "y'alls" and all the talk about cooking with love. "

 

I didn't notice any exaggerated y'all's.  Of course, I live in the South.  

Edited December 11, 2016 by JES004
Adding a note.

[Browncoat]

10 hours ago, JES004 said:

I didn't notice any exaggerated y'all's.  Of course, I live in the South.  

Ditto.  That is exactly the way we talk.

[eurekagirl mOo]

I live in the South and I say ya'll and I hear it all day. It's just how we speak. It's a big country we all have different accents and different sayings. 

[JeanneH]

Heck, I grew up in southern Indiana, definitely not the South, and we threw around the "y'all"s. My favorite is "all y'all", which I heard in this episode.

[chiaros]

37 minutes ago, JeanneH said:

Heck, I grew up in southern Indiana, definitely not the South, and we threw around the "y'all"s. My favorite is "all y'all", which I heard in this episode.

I thought Southern Indiana has usually been widely considered to be part of the South, and culturally and linguistically distinct from Central & Northern Indiana?

[susannot]

23 hours ago, wallflower75 said:

Got to see the new episode today, and...man, if I'm not careful, Casey's going to get back onto my good side.  Her seemingly spontaneous moment about how awesome cooking was really got to me.  *must remember Carla and how Casey torpedoed her chance to win, which meant freakin' HOSEA won that year....*

Hmm...maybe my initial concerns of Jim from Alabama being in over his head were unwarranted?  He again presented a dish the judges seemed to really like, even though his team was on the bottom.  Yay!

Other than Emily (honey, they didn't call you a rookie chef, they meant you were a rookie to Top Chef, think before you speak next time), I thought it was a pretty good episode overall.

Agree about Casey.  I liked that she seemed to be really inspired by Chef BJ, and said so at the dining table in front of everyone, which caused him to smile happily and look flattered.

[cooksdelight]

On 12/10/2016 at 1:33 PM, dleighg said:

I don't get the hate for Casey re: Carla's demise. It's totally on the competing chef to take, or not take, any advice given. 

Carla is probably one of the most successful post-TC chefs, with her gig on The Chew. And I totally agree, Carla could have told Casey no, I'm doing it my way, but I think she viewed Casey as a veteran who knew things. I'm liking Casey a lot this time around. Not as much as others, but she seems to be trying to redeem herself.

[Calamity Jane]

5 hours ago, JeanneH said:

Heck, I grew up in southern Indiana, definitely not the South, and we threw around the "y'all"s. My favorite is "all y'all", which I heard in this episode.

My son went to law school in Chicago, and based on what he learned from that, he insists that southern Indiana IS the south.  

[bravofan27]

I watched Emily on Chopped and she didn't win. She was on Chopped with an ex-boyfriend who was blind or something. The one thing about her is she seems to be trying to hard to be "cool." For example, bragging about be fired several times for having a bad attitude seems really immature and super douchey. I can see this comment going over well with a bunch of teenagers who ditched school to smoke pot. Me thinks Emily is 12 mentally or maybe 13. She'll be gone soon, too unstable and dumb.

Annie and Gerald, though I really liked both of them and are most likely insanely talented, just were out of their element here. I looked up Boone Hill Plantation and whole thing seems fucked up. My cousin lives in a plantation house and there are ringer buttons on the floors in certain areas for ringing the slaves, and my husband who is black was super offended to think someone would live in a house like that. So I can only imagine how a black person would feel having to cook on a slave plantation for entertainment. Black people just get so shit on, it's crazy. 

I didn't mind Tesar's "my mom was a civil rights activist" speech. What the fuck was he supposed to say? I'm sure he was floored by how messed up the whole thing was, and he's obviously white so anything he says is going to sound like lip service.

Otherwise, I like this season! With the alumnis back, the rookies lack of experience really shows and they do come off as rookies. Oh well, they will all be gone soon. YAY!

[JeanneH]

10 hours ago, chiaros said:

I thought Southern Indiana has usually been widely considered to be part of the South, and culturally and linguistically distinct from Central & Northern Indiana?

6 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

My son went to law school in Chicago, and based on what he learned from that, he insists that southern Indiana IS the south.  

Don't know what your son is referring to, Calamity Jane - I lived in Chicagoland for 5-6 years, and all I can say is that everyplace is the south compared to Chicago ;)

Linguistically, I believe you are correct, Chiaros, that southern Indiana is part of some of the southern language groups, while northern Indiana is in a different set of language group. I know I have a bit of a southern accent ("all y'all"), because I've been told it doesn't stand out as much if I've been away for a while, but it's nothing like what I heard when I was working in Alabama!

Culturally, that's kind of a tough question and I'm no expert. The "experts" still argue this, as they can't even decide what are northern or southern states (3 different methods I saw had Indiana as northern, southern, and split down the middle). For me, the culture divide isn't "north" and "south" but "rural" and "urban". When the settlers came in, most of the industry ended up in northern Indiana - I'm guessing it had something to do with access to the Great Lakes ports, although the entire state has access to the river systems. NInd was mainly settled by Germans and eastern European immigrants, while SInd was mainly settled by people moving west from southern states of Virginia and Kentucky (my people were from Germany and what became West Virginia). People continue to come up from Kentucky to this day. Most of the larger cities ended up in central and northern parts of the state. Many of those who settled north did so because they were looking for industrial work, although many (my family, for example) became farmers instead. Rural and Urban: - county fairs - rural. Farm festivals - rural. Country music - statewide, mainly rural (ymmv). Politics - conservative (state wide)    That said, I just looked it up, and found this about southern Indiana:

Quote

Southern Indiana is a region consisting of the southern third of the state of Indiana. The region's history and geography has led to a blend of Northern and Southern culture distinct from the remainder of Indiana. It is often considered to be part of the Upland South or lower Midwest.

I guess that means we're a mish-mash. If you're looking for the "southern" in southern Indiana you should go to the far south, where I'm from, to "Kentuckiana" - call it 40-50 miles either side of the Ohio River.  However, I've never heard "bless your heart" used in the true southern fashion outside of the true South.  :)

Sorry for going on.  ObTC - the biscuits looked great, but I'm with Tom - I can't stand okra (or grits)

Edited December 12, 2016 by JeanneH

[dleighg]

5 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

I didn't mind Tesar's "my mom was a civil rights activist" speech. What the fuck was he supposed to say? I'm sure he was floored by how messed up the whole thing was, and he's obviously white so anything he says is going to sound like lip service.

 

exactly.

[Tarasme]

21 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Carla is probably one of the most successful post-TC chefs, with her gig on The Chew. And I totally agree, Carla could have told Casey no, I'm doing it my way, but I think she viewed Casey as a veteran who knew things. I'm liking Casey a lot this time around. Not as much as others, but she seems to be trying to redeem herself.

I'm completing an NY season re-watch now. Comments from and about Carla are focused on her lack of confidence. The Casey influence supports that idea; CarlaNow would cook circles around CarlaThen and be thoroughly comfortable cooking her Carla food. No apologies.

Casey, on the other hand, confident or no works for me only if I don't have to watch her THs. Same with Sam.

I can't wait for hubby to drive me Southeast to do a long foodie weekend in SC. Closest we've been lately is Nashville (Florida doesn't count).

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Top Chef Gets Down To Biscuits

The chefs get a crash course in Lowcountry and Gullah cooking.

[archer1267]

Quote

I don't get the hate for Casey re: Carla's demise. It's totally on the competing chef to take, or not take, any advice given. 

Agreed. I'm the one who brought it up on this thread. My point was about Casey's comments after the fact, which - IMO - raked Carla over the coals and made it sound like Carla had no business being in the final round. I didn't think Carla deserved that. Casey could have said that Carla was disorganized, or didn't seem to have a clear vision of what she wanted, and left it at that. She didn't. 

(I did like Casey in her season and had hoped that she would be the first female to win TC.)

Quote

I'm not finding it all that interesting either, & I'm not someone who likes lots of drama on my reality show. I don't know if it's the challenges, the chefs, or the whole "experienced vs newbie" thing, but I'm kind of bored. 

I think reality competition shows often don't get interesting until one-third to one-half of the contestants have been eliminated; it's hard to keep everyone straight in the beginning. In this case, I find having the "veterans" on there distracting. Some times it's a case of "why don't I remember this person?" or "why did they come back? they weren't that great the first time around." With Sam, it's hard for me to look at him and not remember the Season 2 pile-on of Marcel. I thought of Sam as the frontrunner and as such, could have done more to diffuse the way Marcel was treated, particularly the night when a group of them were going to hold Marcel down and shave his head. (I also feel an irrational resentment that his elimination led to Ilan winning.) Yeah, it happened nearly 10 years ago, but it's the association that pops up when I see Sam, for better or worse. It's hard to watch people come back to reality shows and NOT have preconceived notions about them.

[ownedbysetters]

This native Hoosier had to chime in on the No vs So IN discussion.  I was born and raised in Michiana, which is the northern companion to Kentuckiana.  In many ways we are atypical Hoosiers.  We have far more in common economically, politically, and culturally with Detroit and Chicago. Michiana lies in the very heart of the automotive industrial corridor.

When I attended college in So IN, it was quite a culture shock.  It did feel like a part of the south, both linguistically and culturally.  In my four years of college, I picked up just enough of a drawl that my eventual hisband, a No Carolina native, thought I was a southern gal when we first met.

I agree with all of you that find Emily insufferable.  Although, to give the devil her due, she has apparently put out decent food in the first two weeks.  Every season seems to need its villain(ness), and I believe we are supposed to view Emily in that role.  It is certainly not a stretch. lol

Hopefullt rookie chef BJ learned that if you are going to brag about your prowess in some particular area, you had better be able to bring it when the time comes.

It is good to see Brooke again.  I found her to be both talented and likeable in her season and wouldn't mind seeing her get the win she may have been robbed of in her first go around.

[mlp]

The only chef I'm interested in so far is Jim although it's early days and we haven't seen much of many of the others.  I didn't care for Brooke during her season and I liked Kristen even less.  I'm sure I'm in a minority but IMO she had an odd flat affect and still has it in times I've seen her since.  I like Sheldon better than both of them but I don't think he has the same kind of experience.  His cooking just appeals to me more.  Personally, I'd rather have something yummy and filling ladled onto my plate than have bits and bites arranged artistically with tweezers.  If I pay fine dining prices, I want something to eat.

I didn't see season 2 but I've read a lot of comments about Sam over the years.  This season is the first time I've seen him and I don't find him at all attractive in any way.  Maybe he was more appealing 10 years ago.

Edited December 13, 2016 by mlp
Forgot something.

[JeanneH]

6 hours ago, ownedbysetters said:

When I attended college in So IN, it was quite a culture shock.  It did feel like a part of the south, both linguistically and culturally.  In my four years of college, I picked up just enough of a drawl that my eventual hisband, a No Carolina native, thought I was a southern gal when we first met.

Hee   :)  I went to college in No.Ind and hung around with kids from Michigan. The following summer, people at my hometown job (who didn't already know me) wanted to know where I was from, because this So.Ind girl sounded like she was from Michigan  :)

obTC - I wonder how some of the Chef-testants based in the north will convert the coastal Carolina recipes they're coming across and convert them for the "northern crowd". I guess that's an in-thing to do these days.

Edited December 13, 2016 by JeanneH

[Sew Sumi]

5 hours ago, mlp said:

The only chef I'm interested in so far is Jim although it's early days and we haven't seen much of many of the others.  I didn't care for Brooke during her season and I liked Kristen even less.  I'm sure I'm in a minority but IMO she had an odd flat affect and still has it in times I've seen her since.  I like Sheldon better than both of them but I don't think he has the same kind of experience.  His cooking just appeals to me more.  Personally, I'd rather have something yummy and filling ladled onto my plate than have bits and bites arranged artistically with tweezers.  If I pay fine dining prices, I want something to eat.

I didn't see season 2 but I've read a lot of comments about Sam over the years.  This season is the first time I've seen him and I don't find him at all attractive in any way.  Maybe he was more appealing 10 years ago.

Nah, Sam looks just about the same. 

[Wings]

On 12/12/2016 at 10:28 AM, Tarasme said:

I can't wait for hubby to drive me Southeast to do a long foodie weekend in SC. Closest we've been lately is Nashville (Florida doesn't count).

Oh you are so right about that!  Florida is not known for it's food.  LOL!  

[Wings]

18 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Nah, Sam looks just about the same. 

He has definitely aged.  He is still a decent looking man but not the sexy guy from years ago.  

[lh25]

On 12/10/2016 at 2:57 AM, candall said:

ETA Note:  I'm a carnivore and own up to my part in animals dying for my dinner plate.  But I don't like to see people carelessly dumping out such a bounty of food that part of it slides off the table and goes on the floor and then those creatures were killed for nothing.  (I feel the same way when Gordon Ramsay makes a big show of throwing eight ribeyes into the garbage because someone made a soupy risotto.)

I agree.  And it seemed like they left a lot of the food that didn't fall on the ground behind as well.  I hope production staff or someone got to eat it.

[spankydoll]

I was astonished how deranged the shopping trip was. Dudes - rip the list into parts and give them out! Remember your days as a broke college student and put the items that y'all have mutually agreed to be the most important at the top of the pile. So dumb. I was going on and on about it to the Mr. - no one had project management skills, no one had any common sense, the chefs should have known all of the required ingredients and planned aisle by aisle. This was on the way to the grocers. It's been a deep freeze here in Boston so I was getting supplies for lots of winter drinking and pot roast. Guess what the two of us armchair quarterbacks came home with? No meat!!!! So I will stop the critiquing that segment.

I didn't find the Southern slang to be over the top. I lived in the South for a bit and everyone's Mamming, Sirring and y'alling all the live long day. Mrs. Biscuit reminded me of every Vera Bradley carrying, monogram wearing, MRS degree sorority girl I know. And I will tell you - those old plantations are everywhere and part of the landscape. I would have been weirder if the show didn't include one as a venue.

[Rachel81]

I'm catching up with this season during my quiet weekend, so forgive the belated bump to this ep. Reading a recap of this ep on another page, and someone there figured out what happened to the racks: The rookies stole them all!

I just rewatched the kitchen scene, and Annie did complain about the ovens all being full, with nowhere to cook her pies (though she earlier told Jim that her crusts were in the oven?). They also made a show of the rookies talking about being in the kitchen first, so it's possible that it wasn't production, but the rookies messing with things.  Too bad they didn't show much of the chefs pulling food out of the ovens to get a glimpse of the actual situation.

Loving Jim, though. A bit of foreshadowing there in that scene when he came up and asked Annie if her tarts were in the oven, and then mentioned how much time was left with some skepticism/warning in his voice. There are a few vets competing who I really like, but I wanna see the underdog outlast them! 

Bearded BBQ chef who can't cook pork and tattoo chef who can't to cook veg can leave any time, though.

[paramitch]

I'm really enjoying this season so far, and am especially enjoying the returnees, most of whom I remember liking and respecting on previous appearances. I do think Sam was a bit of a pot-stirrer on Season 2 (and not entirely blameless in the Marcel bullying), and Katsuji is a mixed bag for me because he can be funny and delightful as well as an absolute, blithering ass. Out of the veterans, I've been most surprised by seeing a kinder, gentler John T., who has chilled out and is no longer constantly playing the "I'M NOT HERE TO MAKE FRIENDS!" role that Emily is currently smugging her way through. 

Speaking of the veterans, I like Casey a lot this time around, and I was surprised to be moved by her tears and real emotion at her special Charleston meal with her fellow chefs. It was a nice moment that told me a lot about why she does what she does.

On 12/10/2016 at 2:57 AM, candall said:

(Edited for space)

Good for Jim for not caving to the peer pressure on jiggering up some kind of quasi-biscuit to offer the Biscuit Queen.  That would have been a long walk on a short pier. 

ETA Note:  I'm a carnivore and own up to my part in animals dying for my dinner plate.  But I don't like to see people carelessly dumping out such a bounty of food that part of it slides off the table and goes on the floor and then those creatures were killed for nothing.  (I feel the same way when Gordon Ramsay makes a big show of throwing eight ribeyes into the garbage because someone made a soupy risotto.)

I felt the same way (the 11th-hour attempt to get Jim to make biscuits was ridiculous -- AFTER that disastrous shopping trip, no less). Meanwhile, I also definitely agreed on the seafood boil. I was kind of grossed out at the waste -- Tom tips that massive vat of food over on the table and as you noted, a ton of food ended up on the floor. In addition, it also seemed very obvious to me that the chefs actually only got a few minutes to stand around and nibble at it. I do hope that food was given out to the crew or others in the vicinity. What a shocking waste.

On 12/10/2016 at 10:28 AM, wallflower75 said:

Got to see the new episode today, and...man, if I'm not careful, Casey's going to get back onto my good side.  Her seemingly spontaneous moment about how awesome cooking was really got to me.  *must remember Carla and how Casey torpedoed her chance to win, which meant freakin' HOSEA won that year....*

I really loved Casey's little moment, as I noted above. I also don't remotely hold Casey responsible for Carla's finale performance years back. Either way, Casey seems to have matured into a lovely person now, and Carla is wildly successful, so I don't think either one of them is worrying about it.

On 12/10/2016 at 10:33 AM, dleighg said:

I don't get the hate for Casey re: Carla's demise. It's totally on the competing chef to take, or not take, any advice given. 

This!

On 12/11/2016 at 10:27 AM, susannot said:

Agree about Casey.  I liked that she seemed to be really inspired by Chef BJ, and said so at the dining table in front of everyone, which caused him to smile happily and look flattered.

Yeah, that really kind of got to me. I was disarmed by how open and moved she seemed both at the time and when speaking about it later. It really seemed to affect her.

Count me in with those who felt that the food by the Biscuit-Lady didn't look all that good. The squash looked really terrible and watery, but so did several other dishes on that table. The biscuits and pork chops, however, did look pretty divine.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, paramitch said:

I do hope that food was given out to the crew or others in the vicinity.

You can count on that.  Carelessly dumping the food onto the table so that some of it spilled onto the ground was wasteful, but you can rest assured that when the cameras stopped rolling, the food that remained on the table was enjoyed.  Production crews on shows where food is prepared are legendary for how quickly they can make food disappear.

[zenme]

On December 11, 2016 at 9:10 PM, JeanneH said:

Southern

U

[vavera4ka]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 6:00 AM, wings707 said:

 

Looked up the recipe for permanent slaw; it does not sound good to me but I will try a small batch.  It must take the place of a pickle, it is not something you eat as a full on side dish.   Whoever made that had an easy dish and not something personally creative.  It is stupid easy. 

OMG please try it. I can guarantee you will never eat cabbage any other way lol

I didn't know it was called "permanent slaw", I grew up calling it "that cabbage salad" lol (our school had it in cafeteria, they were running out of it extremely quickly until they started making 3 HUMNOGOUS pots of it for a day.) I later found a recipe and make it sometimes in large batches. It stores in the fridge forever. It's totally a side dish. Or in summer, just a full light dish :) It doesn't pickle the cabbage too much, in the end it's  slightly tendered by heat and vinegar fresh veggies (I use cabbage, carrots and bell peppers. hate onions lol) salad with oil and vinegar dressing.

[chiaros]

On 12/11/2016 at 10:10 PM, JeanneH said:

Don't know what your son is referring to, Calamity Jane - I lived in Chicagoland for 5-6 years, and all I can say is that everyplace is the south compared to Chicago ;)

Linguistically, I believe you are correct, Chiaros, that southern Indiana is part of some of the southern language groups, while northern Indiana is in a different set of language group. I know I have a bit of a southern accent ("all y'all"), because I've been told it doesn't stand out as much if I've been away for a while, but it's nothing like what I heard when I was working in Alabama!

Culturally, that's kind of a tough question and I'm no expert. The "experts" still argue this, as they can't even decide what are northern or southern states (3 different methods I saw had Indiana as northern, southern, and split down the middle). For me, the culture divide isn't "north" and "south" but "rural" and "urban". When the settlers came in, most of the industry ended up in northern Indiana - I'm guessing it had something to do with access to the Great Lakes ports, although the entire state has access to the river systems. NInd was mainly settled by Germans and eastern European immigrants, while SInd was mainly settled by people moving west from southern states of Virginia and Kentucky (my people were from Germany and what became West Virginia). People continue to come up from Kentucky to this day. Most of the larger cities ended up in central and northern parts of the state. Many of those who settled north did so because they were looking for industrial work, although many (my family, for example) became farmers instead. Rural and Urban: - county fairs - rural. Farm festivals - rural. Country music - statewide, mainly rural (ymmv). Politics - conservative (state wide)    That said, I just looked it up, and found this about southern Indiana:

I guess that means we're a mish-mash. If you're looking for the "southern" in southern Indiana you should go to the far south, where I'm from, to "Kentuckiana" - call it 40-50 miles either side of the Ohio River.  However, I've never heard "bless your heart" used in the true southern fashion outside of the true South.  :)

Sorry for going on.  ObTC - the biscuits looked great, but I'm with Tom - I can't stand okra (or grits)

I was looking up something on a subject completely different from this forum but I was reminded of this topic here...there was also another reason why Indiana was considered part of the South...

[chiaros]

BJ Dennis, who was both a "hosting judge" and just a guest judge on TC Charleston, has become involved in rediscovering Hill Rice and in efforts to bring it back into the story of Gullah cuisine and the story of what American Black slaves grew and cooked and ate.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/13/dining/hill-rice-slave-history.html