S16.E02: Tiffany

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

A young woman gets help after battling post-partum depression and an opiate addiction following three childbirths, one of which resulted in severe complications.

[Primetimer]

Tiffany's difficult childbirths and postpartum depressions put her in a tailspin, and her co-dependent husband isn't helping pull her out. ...Weeeeeslehhhh.

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[IvySpice]

Sheesh. This woman doesn't need methadone, she needs Depo-Provera! WTF is up with having 4 surprise babies? Even if you skipped biology that day, at some point can you come to understand cause and effect?

The previously.tv version of the show apparently said that Tiffany planned to go home after extended treatment, but tonight's BSOJ said she was staying in California to do sober living, so...good? I mean, Sylvia is right that Noah won't remember whether she was there when he was 2, but he's also her freaking responsibility, and how much better off is he living with a complete stalker like Wesley? Is there no sober living in Georgia?

Wesley putting objects in front of the meth pipe to track her use was freaking psycho. This whole story was bad decision central. Poor kids, all of them.

[Tara Ariano]

23 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

The previously.tv version of the show

That makes it sound like we just made things up! A&E sent us that screener today.

[Enero]

20 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

Wesley putting objects in front of the meth pipe to track her use was freaking psycho. This whole story was bad decision central. Poor kids, all of them.

Agreed. He is cray cray and a bum. His excuse for not working was BS. He wasn't working because he wanted to have eyes on Tiffany at all times. His insanity was confirmed when she said that she'd turned off her phone to try and work on her sobriety only to turn it back on to have 85 text messages from him. SMH. 

That said, the only one I felt for in their story was the baby. He deserves better adults in his life because no one was thinking about him. 

I was surprised Tiffany went to rehab considering how she went on and on about loving the needle and the process of getting high more than the drug. I knew when they said she was going to California for rehab she was going to stay there. California is just her speed, no pun intended. She'll stay there, be clean for a while then be on the pole or trying to act in no time. I also would not be surprised if she eventually found another man while out there and end up with husband number three and baby number five at some point. Bottom line I don't think she's going to stay clean.

Lastly, was I the only one who thought the post-pardum depression claims were excuses to, in part, justify her drug use? It may have been true, but came off more as an excuse to me.

[Chaos Theory]

I actually do feel for Tiffany.  She married a couple of assholes.  Asshole #1 wanted a barefoot and pregnant wife who thought the cure for postpartum was to have another baby.  Baby number 1 tore her insides.  What did daddy do?  He put a new baby inside her. L

Asshole#2 comes off like a fairly nice guy for most of the show.  There is something vaguely off putting about him not working but his excuse is somewhat valid because someone needs to watch the kid.  But him leaving 85 texts for Tiffany while trying to get sober is stalkerish  .  I don't blame her at all for staying.  Even if it looks selfish her her main focus needs to be staying clean.  She is no good to anyone if she returns home and falls into the same behaviors.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[pasdetrois]

If Wesley is in recovery, did he really go out to a bar and drink to spite Tiffany? Also, if he's an addict or alcoholic, and he's been in programs/rehab, and taking care of Wesley, then he may not have any reliable job skills. With Tiffany remaining in CA, will Shelli require him to get a damn job?

Shelli is one of the more mature enablers/parents, although she never should have started the child support payments - Tiffany needed to face those consequences. But I guess Shelli was letting them into her home to try to protect Noah.

Something tells me Tiffany will remain in CA forever. She didn't seem attached to anyone, despite the occasional teary eyes. Maybe the postpartum depression interfered with her ability to attach to her children - it happens, especially when a mother churns out so many children so quickly.

Methinks Shelli will be raising Noah.

[jrlr]

11 hours ago, Enero said:

California is just her speed, no pun intended.  

And why is that?  Because we have the 6th largest economy in the world?  Or because CA isn't even on the list of the top ten states with the greatest drug use?

She'll stay there, be clean for a while then be on the pole or trying to act in no time. I also would not be surprised if she eventually found another man while out there and end up with husband number three and baby number five at some point.

Because of course that would never happen if she didn't go to California.  

 

 

 

[Enero]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I actually do feel for Tiffany.  She married a couple of assholes.  Asshole #1 wanted a barefoot and pregnant wife who thought the cure for postpartum was to have another baby.  Baby number 1 tore her insides.  What did daddy do?  He put a new baby inside her. L

Asshole#2 comes off like a fairly nice guy for most of the show.  There is something vaguely off putting about him not workin but his excuse is somewhat valid because so wine needs to watch the kid.  But him leaving 85 texts for Tiffany while trying to get sober is starkerish.  I don't blame her at all for staying.  Even if it looks selfish her her main focus needs to be stayinnf clean.  She is no good to anyone if she returns home and falls into the same behaviors.

Tiffany's husbands may have been assholes but as far as we know no one forced those pregnancies on her. She stated repeatedly that she wanted to be a mother more than anything. Just like they could've covered up she could've gotten on some form of birth control to prevent the numerous pregnancies. 

I'm with  pasdestrois. She seemed detached from everyone despite her "love" for them. So again, not surprised she stayed in California. 

[Chaos Theory]

28 minutes ago, Enero said:

Tiffany's husbands may have been assholes but as far as we know no one forced those pregnancies on her. She stated repeatedly that she wanted to be a mother more than anything. Just like they could've covered up she could've gotten on some form of birth control to prevent the numerous pregnancies. 

I'm with  pasdestrois. She seemed detached from everyone despite her "love" for them. So again, not surprised she stayed in California. 

Who knows how long she will stay though. It says she is extending her treatment and I have known people who have done that including parents.  People expect addicts to walk out of treatment after thirty days and into their lives like nothing happened and anything less is pure selfishness.  You kinda have to be selfish to stay sober.  We don't know if she will stay for a year or maybe she will build a life in CA and eventually send for her son.  The fact that she is getting sober is a step forward and shouldn't be criticized.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Aw my lahgs]

My DVR cut the end of the show off, so I don't know how it ended.

There is so much wrong with that family. I would almost say her substance addiction is one of the minor issues.

Co-dependency all around. Her mom shouldn't pay child support for her daughter and pay for her each and every need.

Wesleeeyy seems to have a lot of issues himself. Besides an obsessed and creepy stalker, I get the vibe he has some sort of addiction issues himself...

Im glad she got and stayed clean. I think it's good for her to be away. Her family situation is too toxic for her. And for anyone else, for that matter.

The theme for this season seems to be: hopeless cases.

I'm glad to see her succeed. I wish her all the best. It's an uphill battle. She needs to consider kicking her stalker/husband to the curb. 

 

ETA: I feel like the editing was a little off. Of course, there's only so much that can be crammed into one episode - but it seems like they left out major stuff.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Nutella

[IvySpice]

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Lastly, was I the only one who thought the post-pardum depression claims were excuses to, in part, justify her drug use? It may have been true, but came off more as an excuse to me.

Yeah, both. You can have real mental illness and also fall back on it as an excuse to use.

I agree that she seemed numb and distant, even when she wasn't shooting up. Saying goodbye to her 1-year-old for God knows how long didn't seem that tough for her.

[GeminiDancer]

It's unfortunate that she brought four kids into the world because she does not want to be a mother. It seems to me that being in California and away from Wesley is the only way she can get her life on track, and I know Wesley will not allow that to happen. He's addicted to her addiction, for sure. It was telling for me when he said, "What would a girl like her do with a guy like me?" in the letter. He ain't shit, and he was cool with that as long as she wasn't shit either. Now that she wants to be more than that (and I hope she's committed to it), he wants to bring her back down.

The worst part is that I know he'll try to use Noah as a bargaining chip and as a tool to keep his claws in her. Girl, get that divorce quick because shit will not end well as long as he's in the picture.

[Court]

I didn't think she would remain sober so I was pleasantly surprised the BSOJ proved me wrong. She didn't seem to have any desire to stop at all. Why would she? Mom was providing her with everything. Husband was a stalker and creepy. 

Mom also bugged me. She blamed everything but Tiffany for her addiction. Ex-husband, the drs, and post partum. For someone who apparently so wanted to be a mom, she didn't even interact with her kid sober. Her husband also didn't want to hold her responsible. 

Since husband #1 was only heard about from mom, I'm not sure he's an ass. Considering, she immediately got pregnant with Stalker, she was ok with having babies quickly.  He may have just finally had Tiffany's number. I felt like she was using the ppd as a convenient excuse. 

I hope she gets a divorce and stays sober.

Georgia has sober living and rehab centers. One is in the county where her child support case is in. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Court

[Court]

@Nutella I also feel something was left out. I thought the timeline of her drug use was off. I'm guessing it was worse before her mom and her said. 

Can someone explain why the dr put her on methadone? I missed that. I'm thinking the heroin happened before that, not afterwards. I also find it hard to believe the dr didn't explain that it would affect the baby.

[GreyBunny]

25 minutes ago, Court said:

I also find it hard to believe the dr didn't explain that it would affect the baby.

Me too.  Throughout they kept saying how the doctors didn't explain this or didn't explain that which I find very hard to believe.  These days any doctor that isn't a quack is going to spell out in no uncertain terms the consequences of using opioids, even under a doctor's supervision, and send the patient home with specific instructions and copies of signed consent forms for such drugs.  (Hell, I had to sign a whole stack of consent forms and a narcotics agreement for my dog when the vet prescribed her 3 pills of tramadol when she got spayed). It's always someone else's fault and I think Tiffany's mother is just as bad as she is.

Edited December 8, 2016 by GreyBunny

[Aja]

I had a year-long relationship with someone who tracked me via Google maps and insisted on knowing all my passwords and having access to my e-mail accounts. No amount of control over me was enough. The word for that is abusive. It bugged me to no end that Wesley was given the "awwww, you care so much about her but you're too co-dependent" treatment. Wesley is the first person she needs to get permanently the hell away from, IMO. 

8 hours ago, Court said:

Can someone explain why the dr put her on methadone? I missed that. I'm thinking the heroin happened before that, not afterwards. I also find it hard to believe the dr didn't explain that it would affect the baby.

Right?? That's, like, grounds for a lawsuit. Surely.

[IvySpice]

Oh, I forgot about that part! Yeah, people on methadone know that a baby will be born addicted. I mean, I think that's common knowledge among people who DON'T abuse opioids. But Tiffany would have seen other addicts at the clinic every day. They see that you are pregnant. Even if you had the world's worst doctor, and even if you never got any prenatal care (or lied to your obstetrician about the methadone), other human beings will talk to you about this.

[Aw my lahgs]

9 hours ago, Aja said:

 

Right?? That's, like, grounds for a lawsuit. Surely.

A lawsuit, really? 

When you're addicted to heroin (or other opioids) and end up pregnant, you can't just quit cold turkey like you would quit smoking cigarettes. Quitting opioids cold turkey during pregnancy can kill your baby very easily. The only options a doctor can give you are:

1. Get on methadone (methadone is the only approved medical treatment for opioid addiction in pregnant women).

2. This rarely happens: Wean off opioids slowly. EXTREMELY slowly. This requires the addict to be extremely careful and requires great self control and precision. This may not be optimal for an erratic addict shooting up daily (maybe better for a pill popper with great self control). ETA: a lot of pill poppers are still put on methadone.

http://www.crchealth.com/find-a-treatment-center/opiate-addiction-treatment/oxycontin-articles/safety-methadone-maintenance-pregnancy/

 

http://www.crchealth.com/addiction/heroin-addiction-treatment/pregnant-heroin/

Edited December 9, 2016 by Nutella

[Jesse]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:17 AM, Chaos Theory said:

 We don't know if she will stay for a year or maybe she will build a life in CA and eventually send for her son.  The fact that she is getting sober is a step forward and shouldn't be criticized.

Yeah, that. It's better for the kid in the long run if she stays away for a long time and stays clean.

17 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

Me too.  Throughout they kept saying how the doctors didn't explain this or didn't explain that which I find very hard to believe.  These days any doctor that isn't a quack is going to spell out in no uncertain terms the consequences of using opioids, even under a doctor's supervision, and send the patient home with specific instructions and copies of signed consent forms for such drugs.  (Hell, I had to sign a whole stack of consent forms and a narcotics agreement for my dog when the vet prescribed her 3 pills of tramadol when she got spayed). It's always someone else's fault and I think Tiffany's mother is just as bad as she is.

Having to sign forms isn't the same thing as the doctor explaining it, though. People sign all kinds of things without reading them. 

[GreyBunny]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

Having to sign forms isn't the same thing as the doctor explaining it, though. People sign all kinds of things without reading them. 

When it comes to prescribing opioids, any decent doctor explains things verbally and asks the patient if they understand.  The forms are in addition to, not instead of a clear explanation. 

[JenMcSnark]

I've never done rehab but a good friend did...aren't you told to avoid getting into a relationship with someone you meet in rehab?  I didn't think Wesley was that far out of line considering.  And I didn't believe the lying addict when she said she would get 85 texts.  I'm sure he's freaking out and texting her, but it seems to be Tiffany's personality to find excuses for everything as long as it doesn't point the finger at her own actions. She probably had 8 texts; I wouldn't take her so literally.  

[AuntTora]

Quote

And I didn't believe the lying addict when she said she would get 85 texts. 

This was kind of my take also. I didn't have that bad an impression of the guy, but people on this board certainly do. Maybe I'm not picking up on an out of control controlling vibe as well as others.

[Chaos Theory]

Addicts are a rare breed.  To use a popular vernacular; they are the ultimate "special snowflake"  Even the ones with the best of intentions don't always hear the words you think they do especially when you are offering them drugs.  I am not saying Tiffany is one of these people but to offer her an unlimited supply of methadone with no followup was kinda weird.  You don't offer an addict drugs and then send them on their way.  All they hears is the word "drugs".   The doctor could have put a form signing her kidneys to him and she would have signed it.  Hell he could have asked for the unborn kid and she would have signed it.  There should have been a follow up appointment.  If the doctor didn't make one it is on him.  If she didn't go, its on her.  

Edited December 9, 2016 by Chaos Theory
breed and bread are not the same thing

[bubbly]

Did anyone else see the Kathy episode right before this one aired?  My description on DirecTv said it was season 15 as well, and it recorded it as a new episode,  but I can't find any discussion for it here. Am I looking in the wrong place or is my DTV just wonky?

[IvySpice]

Yes, I saw the Kathy episode and can't find a thread.

[Court]

The Kathy episode is a Canada episode. It's older but repackaged as new. I think we should have an Intervention Canada thread. That was a tough one. 

Edited December 10, 2016 by Court

[shksabelle]

I don't know about this one.  It all seemed a little too pat.  I do believe she is an addict, but I think she knew full well the documentary was Intervention and saw it as a way to get on the Tee Vee.  I also think that her reaction when the interventionist told her the facility was in California was off.  It was almost like she already knew and/or was pleased to get to go to Newport Beach.

YMMV

[BostonBlonde]

On 12/7/2016 at 7:03 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I actually do feel for Tiffany.  She married a couple of assholes.  Asshole #1 wanted a barefoot and pregnant wife who thought the cure for postpartum was to have another baby.  Baby number 1 tore her insides.  What did daddy do?  He put a new baby inside her. L

Asshole#2 comes off like a fairly nice guy for most of the show.  There is something vaguely off putting about him not working but his excuse is somewhat valid because someone needs to watch the kid.  But him leaving 85 texts for Tiffany while trying to get sober is stalkerish  .  I don't blame her at all for staying.  Even if it looks selfish her her main focus needs to be staying clean.  She is no good to anyone if she returns home and falls into the same behaviors.

Takes TWO. NO ONE held her down minus BC. 

Sorry but I LMAO at "he put a new baby inside her." Cringe worthy speech. 

[Christina]

I'm having difficulty with the like and quote functions. I took the comment, "grounds for a lawsuit" to be in relation to not telling her Methadone would be dangerous to her child, not that prescribing it was grounds for a lawsuit. It sounds like we all agree she was full of crap as far as her knowledge goes, though. 

[Aw my lahgs]

9 hours ago, Christina said:

I'm having difficulty with the like and quote functions. I took the comment, "grounds for a lawsuit" to be in relation to not telling her Methadone would be dangerous to her child, not that prescribing it was grounds for a lawsuit. It sounds like we all agree she was full of crap as far as her knowledge goes, though. 

1000 coconuts that the doctor told her exactly what the effects of methadone on the (unborn) baby are. It would be very irresponsible not to. 

My gut feeling tells me, that even though she was pregnant and on methadone so she would never get dopesick, she still kept shooting up regularly. That could also account for the baby being so sick. That seems a lot more likely, especially since she admits to doing the exact same thing now.

[Neurochick]

On December 9, 2016 at 1:20 AM, JenMcSnark said:

I've never done rehab but a good friend did...aren't you told to avoid getting into a relationship with someone you meet in rehab?  I didn't think Wesley was that far out of line considering.  And I didn't believe the lying addict when she said she would get 85 texts.  I'm sure he's freaking out and texting her, but it seems to be Tiffany's personality to find excuses for everything as long as it doesn't point the finger at her own actions. She probably had 8 texts; I wouldn't take her so literally.  

I think Tiffany's problem is Tiffany.  She needs to stay away from the men and relationships.  

It's not that addicts/alcoholics think they're special snowflakes, it's just that we/they process information differently.  An example is an old joke I once heard.  "If a non-alcoholic's car breaks down, they'll call AAA.  But if an alcoholic's car breaks down they'll call Suicide Prevention."  Every mishap, every mistake is a million times worse to an addict/alcoholic.  Our minds go to the worst case scenario all the time, like a light switch that can never be turned off.

[Rancide]

Count me among those who don't get the "methadone maintenance" while pregnant thing.  I mean, if someone just can't stop, I get that methadone is better than heroin, and good for them.  But for women for whom pregnancy really is a sufficient motivator to want to quit, why not just let them quit?  What's going to happen?  The "bad consequences" they talk about are... what?  Miscarriage?  I don't mean to sound callous, but tons of people miscarry every day, whether they're using heroin or not.  Also, you know what else causes miscarriage?  Using drugs.  Losing an early pregnancy is relatively common and not generally considered a life-altering tragedy that must be avoided at all costs even if it means giving birth to a methadone-addicted baby.  

Unless these "bad consequences" of quitting cold turkey they're talking about are children born with severe brain damage, incurable birth defects, or other significantly life-impairing conditions, I don't get why quitting cold turkey and accepting that your drug use (or sudden drug cessation) may mean you don't get to have a baby at all isn't a perfectly reasonable, and possibly preferable, alternative to giving birth to a baby hooked on methadone.

[Aw my lahgs]

7 hours ago, Rancide said:

Count me among those who don't get the "methadone maintenance" while pregnant thing.  I mean, if someone just can't stop, I get that methadone is better than heroin, and good for them.  But for women for whom pregnancy really is a sufficient motivator to want to quit, why not just let them quit?  What's going to happen?  The "bad consequences" they talk about are... what?  Miscarriage?  I don't mean to sound callous, but tons of people miscarry every day, whether they're using heroin or not.  Also, you know what else causes miscarriage?  Using drugs.  Losing an early pregnancy is relatively common and not generally considered a life-altering tragedy that must be avoided at all costs even if it means giving birth to a methadone-addicted baby.  

Unless these "bad consequences" of quitting cold turkey they're talking about are children born with severe brain damage, incurable birth defects, or other significantly life-impairing conditions, I don't get why quitting cold turkey and accepting that your drug use (or sudden drug cessation) may mean you don't get to have a baby at all isn't a perfectly reasonable, and possibly preferable, alternative to giving birth to a baby hooked on methadone.

You can not give up heroin cold turkey like you can cigarettes or your Saturday night booze habit or your glass of wine at dinner. 

Heroin is an opioid. Quitting cold turkey causes withdrawal which will likely kill your baby, and if you're lucky and your baby makes it, it will likely be severely disabled.

The only safe way to give up heroin is methadone. Methadone is very different than heroin. Methadone doesn't make you high, it doesn't make you feel good, it doesn't do anything to feelings or mood. All it does is that it prevents withdrawal. 

Methadone is infinitely better than heroin because the baby doesn't experience highs and lows, doesn't cause overdoses, no withdrawal and since it's pharmaceutical it is regulated and pure, unlike heroin that's cut up and mixed with who knows what. Depending on each individual situation, methadone dosage can be slowly reduced. 

A methadone addicted baby will be born in a much better condition than a heroin baby.

Opioid addiction is nothing to be blasé about.

[Rancide]

I guess that's my question--does heroin withdrawal cause babies to be born with birth defects?  Obviously, if someone can't quit heroin, methadone is better.  I'm not arguing about that.  I'm just trying to figure out why methadone is better than cold turkey for someone who wants to quit and can.  I'm struggling to see "methadone reduces risk of miscarriage" as a really winning argument for everyone, in all circumstances.  I don't know how many heroin-addict pregnancies are planned.  One would hope not that many.  (I'm not judging parents with addictions--just saying, drug addiction and kids obviously don't mix, so I'm not sure why anyone would be in the midst of an active addiction and actively trying to conceive at the same time.  One would hope that an addict who was trying to start a family would see working on the addiction as something that should take place before, rather than during, pregnancy.)

I get that some people may not be trying to get pregnant but then find themselves that way and immediately decide they want to do everything possible to reduce the risk of miscarriage.  For them, okay, do what you gotta do.  No judgment.  But it seemed like in this episode the doctor had told her that she must go on methadone, regardless of whether she wanted to or not, which seemed weird to me.  I mean, if someone quits cold turkey and then miscarries...???  Is that really such an unacceptable risk?  Abortion is legal, but making a decision that increases the chance of miscarriage is medically unsound?

Does not compute.

[Aw my lahgs]

"It is not safe to quit heroin cold turkey when you’re pregnant as the effects of the heroin withdrawals can endanger the life of your unborn child. Furthermore, the Center for Substance Abuse (CSA) also confirms that heroin withdrawal for pregnant women is especially dangerous because it causes the uterus to contract and may induce miscarriage or premature birth."

From howtoquitheroin.com and it's also on many other sites. Quitting cold turkey is not safe. Methadone is safe and reliable and has been successfully used for decades.

[mamadrama]

A few things here…

1.       I agree with those who think there was probably a drug issue before the pregnancy.

2.       Tiffany saying that it “only takes a week” of being on opiods before you start going through withdrawal upon quitting. Huh. I have been on the same drug, oxycodone, for years. I am a chronic pain patient. I’ve actually been on all the pain killers-fentanyl, lortabs, morphine pump, diludad, etc. Some work for awhile, some don’t work at all, some gave me allergic reactions. In some cases, it takes 2 weeks to build dependence. In MOST cases, it takes closer to 4 weeks. Regardless, after a week or two, the withdrawals of stopping would not have been that bad. They would’ve lasted a day or two at most. Felt like a bad cold. I’ve been through withdrawal more times than I can count and the “badness” of it is in direct correlation with how long you’ve been on the medicine and how much you were taking. 3 pills a day for 2 weeks is nothing. 10 pills a day for 6 months is a different story. Which leads me to…

3.       I do NOT believe she was taking up to 200 pills a day. Oxycodone has aceamphetamine and that alone would probably have killed her. An oxycodone 10 has 350 mg of aceamphetamine. Daily recommended dosage is only 3500. Anything over 4,000 on a regular basis can cause severe liver damage and even death. My local ER, located in a heavily druggy area, sees more problems with aceamphetamine poisoning than with heroin. I have a HIGH tolerance. Very high. And I am smaller (shorter and thinner) than Tiffany. At my highest, I have only taken 100 mg of oxycodone. That is about 3 or 4 pills, depending on the amount. Even if she only had 5 mg pills, that would be 1,000 mg. I call bullshit on that.

4.       It IS true that going on methadone is better for the baby than going off heroin completely. Withdrawals can kill you, especially heroin withdrawals. You’re talking about skyrocketing BP, seizures, strokes, heart attacks…Plus, it is incredibly difficult to wean off the drugs. You really need to do that in a secure setting and, even then, it should take several months to wean down if you are pregnant.

 

I actually think that Tiffany just wanted to get on TV. I think she lied about how often she used and how much. She was way too functional to be a chronic, daily user. I think she wanted a way out. First, the drugs offered her a way. And then the show offered her an even better way.  

[cynicat]

12 hours ago, mamadrama said:

3.       I do NOT believe she was taking up to 200 pills a day. Oxycodone has aceamphetamine and that alone would probably have killed her. An oxycodone 10 has 350 mg of aceamphetamine. Daily recommended dosage is only 3500. Anything over 4,000 on a regular basis can cause severe liver damage and even death. My local ER, located in a heavily druggy area, sees more problems with aceamphetamine poisoning than with heroin. I have a HIGH tolerance. Very high. And I am smaller (shorter and thinner) than Tiffany. At my highest, I have only taken 100 mg of oxycodone. That is about 3 or 4 pills, depending on the amount. Even if she only had 5 mg pills, that would be 1,000 mg. I call bullshit on that.

Oxycodone hydrochloride is most definitely available without acetaminophen.  It doesn't mean she isn't a lying liar who lies, just not necessarily about this.

[mamadrama]

15 minutes ago, cynicat said:

Oxycodone hydrochloride is most definitely available without acetaminophen.  It doesn't mean she isn't a lying liar who lies, just not necessarily about this.

Normally, in the drug taking world, oxycodone without Tylenol is referred to as "roxycodone" or "roxies." Because she referred to it as "oxycodone" I assumed that she was not talking about roxy. I don't know. She also used the terms "oxycodone" and "oxycontin" interchangeably so maybe she WAS taking them without the Tylenol. Either way, 200 pills a day with less than a year to build up tolerance would probably have killed her-with or without the Tylenol. It certainly would have made it harder for her to dress up, do her makeup, and drive all over town with clear eyes. 

[Nicole617]

I did it....oh GOD I did it! I googled 4th degree perineal tear. I should have listened. I had c-sections, so I never had to experience what these poor women go through....anyway, I would really like to find an update on this family. Does anyone know anything? I have high hopes for Tiffany, I think she's a very intelligent and driven woman, and I really feel like she had everything it takes to beat her addiction. I hope for her sake, and for that beautiful little boys sake, that they are together again and healthy and happy. I know that the husband was super annoying and completely obsessed with her, but I hope that HE was able to get help too, because he needed it. There is definitely real live there, and am very curious to know if they are together still together.