S05.E08: Invasion!

[TwistedandBored]

The episode could have been better but it could also have been worse. I just feel like this episode slowed down the momentum the crossover picked up from The Flash. 

[thenj]

For me it was just meh.

I loved EBR's little activities (here and on the Flash) when she was in the backround. 

[KirkB]

5 minutes ago, TwistedandBored said:

The episode could have been better but it could also have been worse. I just feel like this episode slowed down the momentum the crossover picked up from The Flash. 

It absolutely did. I've thought about it overnight and I realized that Oliver being in a world where he didn't get on the Gambit, his parents and Laurel are still alive, and his life is actually good and peaceful (where Star City apparently doesn't suffer a major terrorist attack every year) would make for a great, 100th episode/retrospective, but it's a lousy story to be part of an ALIENS INVADING!!! crossover. If the story had been all about that (perhaps through his being poisoned or something) and didn't have to deal with the aliens it would have worked so much better.

[Sakura12]

I think Mick wasn't taken because he's not an Arrow character. These crossover episodes seem to focus on the characters that were part of the show they were one. Mick and Stein got more focus on the Flash since that's where they originated. Ray seemed to get split between the Flash and Arrow, he got to tell Barry about Snart's death and got to be involved in the alien dream. I don't know why Felicity wasn't involved, I suppose being team tech someone needed to be with the newbies. LoT's episode will focus more on Sara and her team. 

[quarks]

9 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That said, all I can say about this episode (other than seeing ❤️❤️Jamey Sheridan❤️❤️) is that Berlanti, who wrote it, TOTALLY stole the plot of this dreamverse from Batman: The Animated Series-"Perchance to Dream" except that B:TAS had the Mad Hatter, putting Bruce in that dream, and they did it much much much better. They really are hellbent in usurping all of Batman's plots and history and to use it for their version of the Green Arrow, aren't they?

While I can't argue with this at all, I have to say that I kinda love that after starting out stealing directly from the Nolan Batman movies, Arrow chose to celebrate its 100th episode by stealing yet another plot from Batman. It felt like a nice homage to all of the stealing.

 

8 hours ago, ComicFan777 said:

As serious and emotional towards the end of this episode was, I couldn't help but burst out laughing when hologram Laurel said to Oliver "I know you in your bones.."  I don't know, of all the lines they could pick for her to say...I just found that ridiculously funny.

Well, this goes back to one of the major problems with Laurel: Laurel rarely had the chance to deliver those sorts of hero/supportive speeches. In season one and most of season two, she couldn't because she didn't know Oliver's secret identity. She spent most of season three fighting with or arguing with Oliver, not really supporting him until the end of the season - and even her comment there was more just to note that Starling City now had a lot of costumed firefighters.  So that really didn't give Arrow that many speeches to choose from - it was either the "in your bones" speech, or the speech she used to try to get Oliver and Felicity back to Star City, which I think used the phrasing of "we need you," so wouldn't have worked as a goodbye speech from a bunch of holograms, or the speech she gave later in season 4, after the Oliver/Felicity breakup, which lacked the emotional punch of the other statements. So I can see why they used that line.

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

One of the things I don't like about the Supes family is that they're so powerful they make other heroes kind of pointless. Yet, in a big crossover event featuring all your heroes, you can't have her do everything so they basically end up with Supergirl doing nothing special. She could/should have saved the President on Flash but they had her just stand there. She could/should have flown into outer space to help rescue the but just disappeared (along with Barry) with no explanation.

I did find this choice odd. You find out that Oliver et. al. are in space, because duh.  Granted, last season of Supergirl established that she can't fly too far beyond Earth's boundaries before falling back to the planet, but still, having the Legends timeship show up, with the newest/most obscure character on the show (and a character with no connection to Diggle or Thea) instead of the superpowered alien who was supposedly going to be heavily featured in all of the crossover episodes did feel a bit odd.

As a side note - in general, I agree with your earlier point about the Supes family and with overall agreeing with Rene/Wild Dog's speech about metahumans/superpowered aliens in costumes. And I think it's a very valid point for Arrow, which when not dealing with robot suits and setting up spinoffs, is primarily about how people respond to violence, to make and even take a close look at. It just felt very odd for Wild Dog, the one character on Arrow who has barely interacted with metahumans at all (positively or negatively) and who has only recently joined a superhero group, to be the one making this point. I do hope that when, inevitably (maybe tonight!) the Hall of Justice opens, that Arrow and possibly Flash will spend time considering Wild Dog's point with more than a few sentences and with another character.

[RedVitC]

Still processing the ep, but one thing that made me ??? was why the real world team was so splintered. The last shot of The Flash we saw was Barry dramatically staring up into the sky where 5 of his friends (or at least teammates) just disappeared and the next episode he, Kara and the rest of the Legends team are nowhere to be found. What were they doing that was so important that they needed to be called in to help save their friends. Why weren't they there all along? What was the rest of the legends doing while 2 of their members, including their captain was missing (maybe they made a comment about this and I just missed it?)?

And then when Barry and Kara arrive there is no sign of any distress in them at all that their friends have been kidnapped. Nope, they're just grinning all over the place an even joking about what Oliver, who is missing, would do if he were there. And then they disappear again. And I get that they wanted to do a cool fight sequence, but doing a little high five, and then picking up a nearly unconscious woman just to punch her again with super powers didn't make them look cool, it made them look like jerks.

[quarks]

5 hours ago, looptab said:

WTF line of the episode (I'm sure there  are a lot, but this just stood up for me)

After Oliver finds the bunker, Felicity telling to Green Diggle "He is getting  married tomorrow!'

Like, why. Were they worried  about him getting  cold feet too?

To be fair, nearly everyone in the dreamworld was fixated on getting Oliver and Laurel married.  Probably to make sure that they could all sneak into that amazing bathroom from time to time.

On the other questions - Mick managed to get inside a building before the aliens started beaming everyone up, and also, didn't have the science/military/secret government organizations knowledge that Oliver, Diggle and Ray were carrying - making them convenient targets. Plus, also, as hilarious as it would have been to see Mick stalking around the perfect alien world, Mick is really only connected to Ray and Sara, and has no connection to Star City: his appearance in the alien world would presumably have tipped Ray and Sara off to the wrongness much faster, instead of letting center Arrow characters Oliver and Diggle figure it out first. 

And yeah, I do think it would have been helpful to get an idea of what Team Flash and the rest of Team Legends were doing after Oliver and friends were kidnapped - especially given that two of the Legends vanished as well. I know the episode was crowded, but I think a glimpse of Stein and Jax also desperately trying to get Ray and Sara back would have worked better, and made more sense, than Wild Dog's speech - not to mention add a touch of urgency to the B plot.  Yet another reason why Wild Dog's speech, as appropriate as it would have been at another time, didn't quite work for me here. 

[EmilyBettFan]

29 minutes ago, KirkB said:

It absolutely did. I've thought about it overnight and I realized that Oliver being in a world where he didn't get on the Gambit, his parents and Laurel are still alive, and his life is actually good and peaceful (where Star City apparently doesn't suffer a major terrorist attack every year) would make for a great, 100th episode/retrospective, but it's a lousy story to be part of an ALIENS INVADING!!! crossover. If the story had been all about that (perhaps through his being poisoned or something) and didn't have to deal with the aliens it would have worked so much better.

I still would have found it boring. The only good thing about the retrospective was his mother and father. Everything else was ridiculous.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, quarks said:

On the other questions - Mick managed to get inside a building before the aliens started beaming everyone up, and also, didn't have the science/military/secret government organizations knowledge that Oliver, Diggle and Ray were carrying - making them convenient targets. Plus, also, as hilarious as it would have been to see Mick stalking around the perfect alien world, Mick is really only connected to Ray and Sara, and has no connection to Star City: his appearance in the alien world would presumably have tipped Ray and Sara off to the wrongness much faster, instead of letting center Arrow characters Oliver and Diggle figure it out first. 

Oh, I agree Mick would have had no reason to be there, but I was just remarking on the non-metas who weren't taken. He was also the only one who it actually made sense to not show in Arrow being worried about his missing teammates.

[Morrigan2575]

36 minutes ago, KirkB said:

It absolutely did. I've thought about it overnight and I realized that Oliver being in a world where he didn't get on the Gambit, his parents and Laurel are still alive, and his life is actually good and peaceful (where Star City apparently doesn't suffer a major terrorist attack every year) would make for a great, 100th episode/retrospective, but it's a lousy story to be part of an ALIENS INVADING!!! crossover. If the story had been all about that (perhaps through his being poisoned or something) and didn't have to deal with the aliens it would have worked so much better.

Unfortunately I think Arrow just got screwed by timing/scheduling and trying to fit a true 100th episode (which is still a monumental achievement) inside this huge 4 Night Crossover Event!

If they moved the crossover up or back a week and allowed Arrow a true 100th it probably would have flowed better. 

[insomniadreams88]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Unfortunately I think Arrow just got screwed by timing/scheduling and trying to fit a true 100th episode (which is still a monumental achievement) inside this huge 4 Night Crossover Event!

If they moved the crossover up or back a week and allowed Arrow a true 100th it probably would have flowed better. 

Or just had Arrow take a week off if they needed the crossover to happen at this point in the seasons of the other shows. I think 507 going into 509 probably would have flowed better too, considering nothing that happened in 507 actually played a part in 508. 

[Primetimer]

Everyone who's ever been on the show, and a handful of people from other shows, all stop by to vex Oliver and his pals.

View the full article

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm just glad the episode wasn't as horrible as it could have been. Still way too much of the Lance sisters for me to ever truly enjoy this and I really hate that Felicity is separated from Diggle and Oliver. I understand why they made it that way, but I hate it. It's like, why can't she go on adventures anymore. Speaks to one of the many problems I have with S5 in that she seems stuck in the bunker while everybody else gets to go out in the field.

I found Oliver's goodbye to his parents devastating. And I loved seeing Susanna again (although her eye makeup is a little weird, kinda like she was stuck in the 80s with the heavy gray eyeshadow). But, I was unmoved by his conversation with Thea. 

I enjoyed little things like "alien" Felicity at the party and Oliver coming face to face with her. You can tell he was wigged out by how carefully he avoided her, LOL! I'm laughing now at whichever entertainment media outfit was talking about "subtle" Olicity because having a big-ass Smoak Technologies building as Oliver's way home is apparently being subtle. I liked the Olicity flashback/highlights and that the last thing Oliver saw was himself putting a ring on Felicity. 

As others have mentioned, the geek squad felt off because they were joking around and there was no sense of urgency. That's actually a problem with a lot of Arrow episodes. The writers don't seem to know how to write for suspense.

[Cleanqueen]

Man I actually enjoyed the episode, Stephen Amell carried it and I teared up when he said goodbye to his parents. Smoak Technologies being the escape route they needed was the best things the writers gave to us Felicity Smoak fans.

I can't believe Felicity owned her own company and fought alongside the green Arrow at night. If that isn't the best thing, I don't know what is. Now writers, please make this happen on the show.

[Chaser]

The more I think about the episode, the more I think it didn't work. It missed the mark as a 100th and a crossover. Ideally the two should have been separated, but with timing not allowing it, I think they made some poor choices that compounded their problem. 

It's a crossover, have Team Flash, Team Legend and SG working the real world. They didn't need the Boobies. They certainly didn't need to give WD more monologues. If they wanted to include them, have them be random strangers in the dream world.

Speaking of the dream world, it was a nice homage to S1 but it needed more than winks to the rest of the series. Felicity and Diggle were shortchanged. Felicity especially. I'd probably toss Lance in to, poor guy only had one scene. 

[AyChihuahua]

12 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Speaking of the dream world, it was a nice homage to S1 but it needed more than winks to the rest of the series. Felicity and Diggle were shortchanged. Felicity especially. I'd probably toss Lance in to, poor guy only had one scene. 

I'm seeing comments that she got shortchanged but also seeing sarcastic comments implying that those who thought she would get shortchanged are ridiculous. At a minimum, she looked lovely.

[ladylaw99]

This ep was ok.  I didn't hate, so that is a plus.  

The noobs were not needed at all, even Rory who I like.  Felicity and Cisco could have handle this on their own.

 If anything this ep showed me what a big mistake it was to get rid of Moira.  I loved the scenes with Oliver, Thea and their parents.  Arrow is lacking alot of heart and their was so much more story to be told with the Queen family.  Unfortunately, this ep also reminded me how much I do not care about Laurel and the Lance family and I like Sara. 

Not popular opinion but Barry and Kara did nothing for me, they were just there.  Are they cute together sure but, so are puppies.  I guess maybe I expected more from them.

Not enough Felicity and OTA for me.  This is way I stayed for 100 ep.

I don't know, I didn't hate the ep, didn't love it.  I just miss what it use to be.

[KirkB]

26 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

Not popular opinion but Barry and Kara did nothing for me, they were just there.  Are they cute together sure but, so are puppies.  I guess maybe I expected more from them.

I get what you're saying. I think it's because Barry and especially Kara were way overpowered for the situation. They couldn't do much because then there would not be much for the others to do, and the show is in love with the New Masks on the Block. The 'fight' with the cyborg lady, which really came across as kind of random, demonstrates that.

[thegirlsleuth]

I haven't watched since 5.02, but I went into this episode wanting to like it since I did love the show so much for a while.  The emotional beats were there--Oliver's scene with Moira was devastating--but I kept getting caught up on the aliens and their logic and POV problems.  Admittedly, I missed the first three minutes, but except for some of Sara's flashes, the whole thing was from Oliver's POV.  I don't have a huge problem with that--this is Oliver's story--but it made Diggle's story really confusing for me (Oliver was in deep discussion with his dad about the company when Diggle swooped in the first time, making me think Diggle as vigilante was something from Oliver's mind) and while Sara mentioned wanting Laurel being alive as her biggest wish, why was it such a big element of Oliver's story? Palmer was winning but completely unnecessary, and Thea's story made me wish that we had been seeing more of her and her struggles this season, because I think her story would have had more weight.  Also, I kept wondering that if the aliens had the power to incapacitate them, change their clothes, and put them in pods, why didn't they just kill them, ending the threat?  

On team earth, Wild Dog can suck an egg. During his fight with cyborg lady I kept saying "burning minutes" because it was so unnecessary, and I wish they had spent more time with Kara and Barry, who have such a fun dynamic. This crossover event has made me want to watch Supergirl. The giddy tone of everyone seemed out of place in an episode where their people were in serious danger, but there were some nice quips.  

I noticed that none of the Arrow accounts mentioned Felicity/EBR/Smoak tech at all.  Everyone except for Felicity and Rory got a shoutout--sometimes several--but Felicity was ignored by the Arrow account/the writers room/production office. Coupled with Felicity's lack of purpose in the 100th episode, the whole thing made me oddly sad. I know that some are seeing a lot of Olicity hope in this episode but I did not. I do plan to watch next week, so maybe Arrow bonus 100th episode will give me clarity on Felicity and Olicity.

To end on a positive, I thought Stephen's acting was stellar throughout, both the big beats with his family and his manic energy when he realized there was something wrong in the dream world.  

[tv echo]

I agree that the strongest parts of this episode were Oliver's moments with his parents and with Thea. I also agree that SA's acting was very good, although I don't think he conveys confusion that well. I was unclear as to exactly when Oliver's confusion completely cleared up and he remembered everything.

I also agree that Felicity and even Diggle to an extent got shortchanged in this episode. However, I realize that my opinion is colored by me being a big Felicity fan, who believes that Felicity - along with Diggle - saved the show in Season 1.

Too much Wild Dog. Too much Curtis.  It is abundantly clear that TPTB (DC?) are pushing these two comics characters this season.

Are we sure that AK didn't write this episode? Because I thought a lot of Oliver's dialogue supported AK's recent interview statement that Laurel is Oliver's "great love." I also thought that this episode downplayed Oliver's love for Felicity.

First, there's an OTA scene, where Oliver finds the Arrow Bunker and sees Felicity and Diggle (dressed as the Hood) there. He has Olicity memory flashes: meeting her for the first time, seeing her on their first date, their first kiss, their first time making love, when she was shot, and putting the ring on her finger at their fake wedding. Yet then, after remembering Felicity and softly saying her name, he immediately goes to see Laurel and desperately tries to convince her to marry him right away. And we get this dialogue:

Oliver (entering): "Laurel, I -"
Sara: "Don't you know it's bad luck to see the bride before the wedding?"
DreamLaurel: "Or skip out on the rehearsal dinner?"
Oliver: "I - I know. I said I was sorry."
Sara: "In a text."
Oliver: "Sara, can you give us a few minutes, please?"
Sara (to Oliver): "You're lucky I'm not a trained assassin or anything." (Leaves)
Oliver: "I... oh, wow. You, um - you look beautiful."
DreamLaurel: "I called you over 20 times last night."
Oliver: "I can't explain last night. I just... today - today, I want to marry you."
DreamLaurel: "Well, that's good because there are guests here."
Oliver: "No, not with guests, not in a few hours. Now. Laurel, I need to - I need to get out of here. I - we can elope."
DreamLaurel: "Oliver."
Oliver: "I'm being serious. I don't know what's going on with me right now. I just know that I want to be with you as quickly as humanly possible."
DreamLaurel: "What is going on with you?"
Oliver: "I - last night, somebody reminded me that I have everything. And I don't want to give it up. I'm afraid that I'm gonna give it up."
DreamLaurel: "Well, that's very sweet of you, but we have over 200 guests coming, and your parents, they've spent a fortune on this wedding."
Oliver: "I know, and I'm - I'm sorry if this is confusing or if I'm scaring you, but the only thing in the world that makes sense to me right now is that I love you. And I'm gonna take that job at Queen Consolidated, and I swear to God I'm gonna work every single day to be the man you fell in love with."

Later, there's this goodbye scene between Oliver and DreamLaurel:

DreamLaurel: "Ollie, Ollie, Ollie! What's happening."
Oliver: "I'm sorry. The person you fell in love with - that's not me. And I never deserved that love. And you always deserved better."
(Oliver holds her head with his hands and kisses her on the forehead for a long time.)
DreamLaurel: "Please."
Oliver: "I love you."
DreamLaurel: "I love you. Don't go!"
(Oliver walks away, stops and looks back at her, and then leaves.)

It sounded like Oliver's dream was still to be married to Laurel, that he only left the alien hallucination because of obligation, and that the only reason he didn't try to reconcile with Laurel in reality was because he didn't think he was good enough for her. Therefore, the implication was twofold: one, that since Oliver was willing to marry Felicity, he didn't think Felicity deserved better than him; and, two, that since he felt he was good enough for Felicity but not good enough for Laurel, Laurel was somehow superior to Felicity. In short, this episode implied that Laurel really was his great love and that Felicity was Oliver's second choice. Having recently watched Poldark, I'm reminded of the Ross-Demelza-Elizabeth love triangle, where Ross had this idealized image of Elizabeth and considered her, a gentlewoman, superior to Demelza, a miner's daughter. 

However, this implication/conclusion is contradicted by everything we've seen on the show over the past three seasons. Aside from the first season, Oliver never acted like he was still pining over Laurel or that he considered her superior to Felicity. Instead, he often acted like he barely tolerated Laurel's presence at times and didn't think about her all that much. Prime example: when Ra's stabbed Oliver, his last 'dying' thoughts were of his family and Felicity, not Laurel.

Continuing the Poldark comparison, Laurel might've been Oliver's love at one time, but it was clear from the past three seasons that that was no longer the case. So the 508 dialogue made no sense in the overall context of all four plus seasons of the show.

What did make sense to me is the idea that Laurel always had high expectations for Oliver and he was constantly disappointing her.  On the other hand, Felicity always believed in him and saw him as a hero (for the most part, putting aside the BMD). So I could understand why he would prefer to be around Felicity.

Edited December 1, 2016 by tv echo

[Angel12d]

One thing I still don't get is why Felicity was included at the end - with all the other dead characters (and Roy). LOL. Is it because he was saying goodbye to her? Is it because he feels like he's lost her too? IDK. I get why Roy was there because he's not around anymore but Felicity is with him every single day. So I'm just a bit confused tbh. Thoughts?

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

One thing I still don't get is why Felicity was included at the end - with all the other dead characters (and Roy). LOL. Is it because he was saying goodbye to her? Is it because he feels like he's lost her too? IDK. I get why Roy was there because he's not around anymore but Felicity is with him every single day. So I'm just a bit confused tbh. Thoughts?

I thought either they showed the people that supposedly had the biggest influence in his journey (where's Diggle though?) or he feels he partially lost Felicity when she broke up with him or the writers thought it was cool and it means nothing, LOL.

[tv echo]

The holograms weren't people he lost.  And it would make no sense for the aliens to show those hologram images and give them those dialogue lines. So it was like Oliver manipulated the hallucination to recall all of the inspiring words that had been said to him by loved ones in the past. So we have them reinforcing Oliver's resolve to return to reality and continue to fight the good fight (in a very Harry Potter-esque moment). I guess Diggle wasn't one of the holograms because he was one of the real people who entered the hallucination.

Moira: "You're never without me, my beautiful boy. There's nothing else to say except... I could not be more proud of you."
Felicity: "You've become someone else. Become something else... You honor the dead by fighting, and you are not done fighting!"
Tommy: "I know I called you a murderer, but you are not. You are a hero."
Roy: "You saved my life. You gave me purpose. This time, we had to save you."
Laurel: "I know who you are in your bones, Oliver, and that person doesn't give up!"
Robert: "This is your responsibility now."

As MG's interviews indicated, Oliver then returns in the mid-season finale next week fully recommitted to the cause.

Edited December 1, 2016 by tv echo

[HighHopes]

1 minute ago, tv echo said:

As MG's interviews indicated, Oliver then returns in the mid-season finale next week fully recommitted to the cause.

I'm not watching this season.. but wasn't he committed to the cause already? I thought he figured this out when he brought in the new team...Is there a new cause? Or are they just repeating the same "Oliver needs to trust his team, and fight for the city, and realize he's a hero" storyline that they do every season? 

[Chaser]

32 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

 I noticed that none of the Arrow accounts mentioned Felicity/EBR/Smoak tech at all.  Everyone except for Felicity and Rory got a shoutout--sometimes several--but Felicity was ignored by the Arrow account/the writers room/production office. Coupled with Felicity's lack of purpose in the 100th episode, the whole thing made me oddly sad. I know that some are seeing a lot of Olicity hope in this episode but I did not. I do plan to watch next week, so maybe Arrow bonus 100th episode will give me clarity on Felicity and Olicity.

 

The official Arrow accounts have been borderline ignoring Felicity and Olicity all season (live tweets and even fanarts). Sad to see it continue for the 100th.

I honestly can't figure out why either. It's like this total 180 from previous seasons. I expect it from the official promo with all its newbies and action and masks, but from the twitter accounts it's really weird too me.

With this and no interviews from EBR, I feel like they basically eliminated all promo for Felicity and Olicity.

For the record, I don't believe the show is ending Olicity at all. I'm more inclined to think its in response to Felicity and Friends and promoting the Comics more because of the inclusion of SG on the network.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

One thing I still don't get is why Felicity was included at the end - with all the other dead characters (and Roy). LOL. Is it because he was saying goodbye to her? Is it because he feels like he's lost her too? IDK. I get why Roy was there because he's not around anymore but Felicity is with him every single day. So I'm just a bit confused tbh. Thoughts?

Because it was everyone Oliver lost both physically and emotionally. I was surprised that the writers handled loss so sensitively. Because you can lose people in more ways than one.

[JJ928]

Other than Constipated face during his scenes with Laurel (which I laughed at, this is a dig at SA not her btw), I enjoyed this episode. I think it was a nice way to give Oliver closure with those that are now gone. To a lesser extent they did the same for Sara w/Laurel. I felt like the show took this opportunity  to please most fans. I've seen most Olicity fans happy because of their interpretation of this ep, I've seen Laurel/Oliver fans happy for the same reason... I'd say this is the first time in a long time they wrote smart. You can look at this episode and interpret it in different ways, there is something for most people to be content over. I will say, the one thing that stuck out to me was Sara's words to her sister: "somethings you just can't fix." I took that as the show saying goodbye to Laurel for good. She won't be brought back, Laurel is dead, as is Moira, Robert & Tommy. Will we see KC as someone else? Sure! But I kinda doubt we'll see her again after this season. This felt truly like an ending, like they were removing the baggage & starting over. I really hope that's the case because as much as I miss some of these characters, I'm tired of hearing about them. I want death to mean something & the show needs to refocus itself and let go of the past that continues to bog it down. All-in-all, it's not my most favorite episode but I enjoyed much more than I imagined. the Queen family scenes were excellent. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by JJ928

[AyChihuahua]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Because it was everyone Oliver lost both physically and emotionally. I was surprised that the writers handled loss so sensitively. Because you can lose people in more ways than one.

Poor dumb Li'l Willy. (And Shado, who I'd have thought would be at least as important as Roy.)

[tv echo]

14 minutes ago, HighHopes said:

I'm not watching this season.. but wasn't he committed to the cause already? I thought he figured this out when he brought in the new team...Is there a new cause? Or are they just repeating the same "Oliver needs to trust his team, and fight for the city, and realize he's a hero" storyline that they do every season? 

Like Barry, Oliver needs constant pep talks.  In yesterday's Deadline and Variety interviews (posted in the Starling City Times thread), MG said that the Dominators hallucination experience leads Oliver to "double down on" and "re-commit" to his mission and to "strengthen" his purpose and that Oliver has a "new sense of purpose."  Whatever all that means.

[CabotCove]

Quote

One thing I still don't get is why Felicity was included at the end - with all the other dead characters (and Roy). LOL. Is it because he was saying goodbye to her? Is it because he feels like he's lost her too? IDK. I get why Roy was there because he's not around anymore but Felicity is with him every single day. So I'm just a bit confused tbh. Thoughts?

Yeah thought it didnt make sense too

(IMO)  its  Favouritism 

OR  its an "all people I have lost" scene,  which doesnt make complete sense but OK, I will go with it. I sure hope its the latter than the former ?. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by HeroLeague

[Midnight Lullaby]

I liked the episode overall because it had heart. The characters were allowed to show emotions and that's what I have missed this season so far. The geek squad wasn't taking the situation seriously but I couldn't help but laugh at a few lines. Wild puppy is my new Laurel. I guess there's no arrow without one, sigh.

Oliver's goodbye to his parents was beautiful and my favorite scene was the OTA one. Felicity and Dig as a team treating Oliver like he was crazy was fun.

Laurel/Oliver makes me cringe, partially because the actors can't sell it and partially because they reused some lines. And that's something that makes me cringe in every situation. I know it wasn't Laurel's hallucination but it's kinda sad that the only thing she was in that reality was Oliver's fiancée.

[catrox14]

WTH is Guggenheim yammering about. Oliver remained committed to saving the city as  the Arrow and even more than as the mayor given Thea and Olivers exchange about his vigilantism taking precedence over being the mayor.

When did Oliver have this new crisis of being a hero? Did it happen off screen? . Good grief if they are going down that road with main character thanks for not sharing that PRETTY IMPORTANT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT with the rest of the class. WTF? Seriously, WTF?

[Chaser]

Normally, I wouldn't want the writers on twitter but I want someone to explain the thought process of including Felicity and Roy in the holograms.

Taking a look back on Laurel's part, it is kind of a mockery. Her main role was the stepford bride. Which was tainted because the opening scene with Oliver and the elopement speech had Olicity influence all over (the running up to the house, Felicity's line, the speech that mirrored Olicity's breakup). Then you had Oliver running ditching the dinner party and wedding on her. Laurel having to run him down for a goodbye (which in fairness lead to the only moment I felt was genuine). All this for the character that was supposed to be so important because she was Black Canary? The only Canary mention was for Sara. This Laurel? This is S1 Flashback Laurel.

[Sakura12]

Laurel had the Black Canary necklace, which triggered Sara's memory once again showing that the name Canary only means something to Sara. I'm fine with that. . Dinah Lance is the Black Canary in comics and cartoons, Sara Lance is the only one I recognize as Black Canary in the Arrowverse. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Sakura12

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Normally, I wouldn't want the writers on twitter but I want someone to explain the thought process of including Felicity and Roy in the holograms.

Taking a look back on Laurel's part, it is kind of a mockery. Her main role was the stepford bride. Which was tainted because the opening scene with Oliver and the elopement speech had Olicity influence all over (the running up to the house, Felicity's line, the speech that mirrored Olicity's breakup). Then you had Oliver running ditching the dinner party and wedding on her. Laurel having to run him down for a goodbye (which in fairness lead to the only moment I felt was genuine). All this for the character that was supposed to be so important because she was Black Canary? The only Canary mention was for Sara. This Laurel? This is S1 Flashback Laurel.

That's how I felt as well. Dream Felicity instead was Ray's finacee but was also the GA's partner.

[Angel12d]

33 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

That's how I felt as well. Dream Felicity instead was Ray's finacee but was also the GA's partner.

It kinda felt like there were different Felicity's in the alien world though. I thought one was Diggle GA's partner and another was Ray's fiancée. It was almost like she was whatever they needed her to be at that moment in time.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Angel12d

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

It kinda felt like there were different Felicity's in the alien world though. I thought one was Diggle GA's partner and another was Ray's fiancée. It was almost like she was whatever they needed her to be at that moment in time.

That's my take on it and that's why I'm bitter that Oliver didn't have his own Felicity. Nothing at all. FFS even Ray conjured one up for himself. 

[Angel12d]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

That's my take on it and that's why I'm bitter that Oliver didn't have his own Felicity. Nothing at all. FFS even Ray conjured one up for himself. 

Well, she came through to him in other ways, given that he repeated things he'd said to Felicity to Laurel. And there was also that giant Smoak Technologies building that was the guide home.

I know it's not ideal but it's something.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Angel12d

[CletusMusashi]

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't know why Felicity wasn't involved, 

Because if she was there to figure out the clues, the episode would have been about five minutes long?

[Midnight Lullaby]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

It kinda felt like there were different Felicity's in the alien world though. I thought one was Diggle GA's partner and another was Ray's fiancée. It was almost like she was whatever they needed her to be at that moment in time.

I agree. But one of the people in the hallucination could have pictured her also as her own person. Instead they chose to show her only as the LI. It was the writers' choice and I find it a bit sad because at the end it felt like this was her last appearance so the last memory of her she is leaving.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Because if she was there to figure out the clues, the episode would have been about five minutes long?

Very true. But then again, considering how they wrote Felicity in 508, with Curtis and Rory explaining things she should have, they may have had her be the last one to realize something was off. (Sorry, bitter.) 

[Mellowyellow]

23 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Well, she came through to him in other ways, given that he repeated things he'd said to Felicity to Laurel. And there was also that giant Smoak Technologies building that was the guide home.

I know it's not ideal but it's something.

Haha see I've got no faith in these writers I totally interpreted things in other ways. 

The sign I took as them being random.

The dialogue I took as them being lazy. Kind of  like when someone writes fanfic and uses the same phrases they are fond of over and over again.

But I do think your interpretation makes me less ragey. I was mostly ok with the ep last night when I watched it and now I'm like full on raging that Oliver didn't have his own Felicity.

Still squeeing that Dig's dream is being holed up in the lair with frazzled Felicity as his back up. I suppose that's something. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Mellowyellow

[scarynikki12]

4 hours ago, Chaser said:

It's a crossover, have Team Flash, Team Legend and SG working the real world. They didn't need the Boobies

I have no idea if this is on purpose but I love it either way.

[tennisgurl]

I already covered how much Rene sucks (which he totally does) so I will move onto other thing...

I liked Cisco again this episode, he was back to his likable self with Felicity. Or maybe I just felt bad for him having to get a "your one of them" from dickhead Rene. At least when Cisco is being kind of a jerk, I can understand why he is acting like that, and I know being a jerk is not a natural jerk. Rene on the other hand...damn it me, stop bitching about wild puppy, stay on topic!

As everyone else has said, Stephen was amazing throughout. Everyone did well, but this was his episode for sure. The fantasy world was not quite as good as it could have been, but it was an interesting little AU, and it was great seeing some of the old characters, and even a shout out to my poor Tommy. I was even happy to see Laurel! I was kind of just meh on Laurel most of the time, but I thought her death was bullshit, so I was glad her fans got to see her again, outside of her sorry last words, dying as she props up Olicity. And I love Olicity! 

Rory is still great, and I loved him using his knowledge of Judaism to figure out the code. Curtis is alright, but he is basically just a male Felicity in a stupid outfit. At least he isn't Rene. Also (last thing, I promise), why is Rene so pissy about Cisco Barry and Kara? He works with Rory every day, and he fights with magic rags! So thats alright, but aliens and meta humans are bad? And his reasoning is just so STUPID. How is it their fault that some meta humans and aliens are assholes? So because they exist, its their fault bad guys exist? Does that mean if doctors didn't exist, neither would cancer? And stop being a dick to Rory about what a "nerd" he apparently is. What an asshole.

I really liked everyone getting to fight the bad guy that hurt them the most. That was a nice bit of character. I really did like this, but it could have been better.  

[Midnight Lullaby]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

But I do think your interpretation makes me less ragey. I was mostly ok with the ep last night when I watched it and now I'm like full on raging that Oliver didn't have his own Felicity.

Still squeeing that Dig's dream is being holed up in the lair with frazzled Felicity as his back up. I suppose that's something. 

I think it was the only way to make Laurel the bride. If Oliver had his own Felicity that would have created troubles I'm not sure the writers could have solved.

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Very true. But then again, considering how they wrote Felicity in 508, with Curtis and Rory explaining things she should have, they may have had her be the last one to realize something was off. (Sorry, bitter.) 

I don't get the complaint about Rory at all. Cisco interrupted her while she was trying to explain her thought. I get that one.

However, Felicty has never (to my knowledge) been portrayed as someone that is deeply religious. Rory on the other hand has been shown to be very religious and spiritual. Just because she's jewish doesn't mean she knows all things Jewish. 

In any case, she did vaguely recognize it so she had a distant memory of what it was.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

Unpopular opinion: I thought Felicity was more Felicity in the DreamWorld than the real world. Real world was off (which I blame on the show trying to maintain the crossover FUN!).

[Chaser]

12 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

I have no idea if this is on purpose but I love it either way.

Totally on purpose. They are boobs.

[looptab]

Was this the first time Oliver said I love you to Laurel? I know he never said it romantically, but I thought he had said it some time as friends.

Also, odd that there was no scene, not even a moment between Dig and Laurel. Not that I'd had particularly enjoyed it or wanted it, but supposedly he feels guilty for her death.

[scarynikki12]

I was honestly underwhelmed but I'm also out of the loop on Arrow these days. That said I think my biggest laugh was Laurel taking off her million rings while showering EXCEPT the engagement ring. Every engaged and married woman I know takes off the stone when showering/getting so I took that as a reminder of Laurel's lifelong determination to become Mrs Oliver Queen. She wasn't taking that ring off under any circumstances even if it would make sense. 

And the million rings were back when she had the dress on which only looked tacky. 

I will say that the episode stealing from the Animated Series was smart, and a reminder that this is primarily a Batman-lite show (it must kill the producers that Fox gets to play with the actual Batverse while they can't). If you're gonna steal at least steal from the best.