Gilmore Girls: A Year in the Life Season 1

[Melancholy]

On 12/27/2016 at 5:20 AM, junienmomo said:

I remain mystified as to why Lorelai chose to not be more to April than an occasional hostess. Not being given her rightful role with April is what caused her to leave in the first place. Nine years later we see that she didn't take the role anyway? If I were Luke, I'd be in therapy over that.

Going back. I fanwanked that April became the odd, technical young woman who even Luke showed trouble relating to early in her adolescence and that accounted for Lorelai's distant relationship with April and arguably harsher financial support standards than for Rory. I also think it's a cynical but very in character speculation that Lorelai had a specific interest to play a starring role in S6 as the Amazing Stepmother Who Teaches Luke How To Parent. After Luke found his own dad-mode and after he and April rooted a relationship dynamic for almost two years without Lorelai, she had little interest in the more awkward and accommodating and less starring role of trying to mesh with an existing dynamic where there's no need to teach Luke and call the shots on his parenting through that. 

I thought before that there was a disconcerting ego tinge to how Lorelai thought Luke needed her help with April and especially Jess.  Lorelai does good but I think she's generally does it self-importantly and gets pissed if it's not in the self-styled role of admiration. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Melancholy

[hippielamb]

5 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Going back. I fanwanked that April became the odd, technical young woman who even Luke showed trouble relating to early in her adolescence and that accounted for Lorelai's distant relationship with April and arguably harsher financial support standards than for Rory. I also think it's a cynical but very in character speculation that Lorelai had a specific interest to play a starring role in S6 as the Amazing Stepmother Who Teaches Luke How To Parent. After Luke found his own dad-mode and after he and April rooted a relationship dynamic for almost two years without Lorelai, she had little interest in the more awkward and accommodating and less starring role of trying to mesh with an existing dynamic where there's no need to teach Luke and call the shots on his parenting through that. 

I thought before that there was a disconcerting ego tinge to how Lorelai thought Luke needed her help with April and especially Jess.  Lorelai does good but I think she's generally does it self-importantly and gets pissed if it's not in the self-styled role of admiration. 

I can kinda see why she butted in with Jess. Luke had no experience raising a teenager and she did. It's a little invasive but I think her intentions were good. She wanted to help her friend.

I do wonder if she wouldn't have pushed so hard in knowing April if Luke wasn't so dead set against it. Add that to everyone had spent time with April except her, and that underlined it even more. Lorelai's desire to be in April's life always felt weird to me. (Seriously, if a guy had been so pushy in having a relationship with Rory, her alarm bells would have gone off.) Lorelai's friendly yet not overbearing attitude in the revival feels more genuine. She has learned how to be dad's girlfriend/step-mom to April and let go of the manic desire to bond with the kid. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

Quote

 

Lorelai's desire to be in April's life always felt weird to me. (Seriously, if a guy had been so pushy in having a relationship with Rory, her alarm bells would have gone off.) Lorelai's friendly yet not overbearing attitude in the revival feels more genuine. She has learned how to be dad's girlfriend/step-mom to April and let go of the manic desire to bond with the kid. 

 

The fact that they were engaged to be married and Luke kept April's existence a secret for two months no doubt colored Lorelai's attitude. But also, how Luke continued to handle it would have made most on Lorelai's shoes uncomfortable and insecure, on some level, IMO.

Edited December 30, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[TimetravellingBW]

7 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I can kinda see why she butted in with Jess. Luke had no experience raising a teenager and she did. It's a little invasive but I think her intentions were good. She wanted to help her friend.

I do wonder if she wouldn't have pushed so hard in knowing April if Luke wasn't so dead set against it. Add that to everyone had spent time with April except her, and that underlined it even more. Lorelai's desire to be in April's life always felt weird to me. (Seriously, if a guy had been so pushy in having a relationship with Rory, her alarm bells would have gone off.) Lorelai's friendly yet not overbearing attitude in the revival feels more genuine. She has learned how to be dad's girlfriend/step-mom to April and let go of the manic desire to bond with the kid. 

I didn't find it weird at all; Lorelai and Luke were going to be husband and wife - she was going to be this girl's step mother. Of course she wanted a genuine relationship with April! Especially as Luke was totally absorbed in his new daughter and she was only 13 so is going to be around for a while. If you were his fiancee you'd naturally want to be involved not shut out. And to give Lorelai her due, she wasn't trying to usurp Luke as a parent, just have some sort of connection with April, especially once she understood Luke's insecurities about being pushed aside when she came on board. And yes Lorelai may have flipped out if a prospective step father wanted to build a relationship with Rory (hi Max!) but as covered a lot on these boards she could be unhealthily possessive and exclusive regarding Rory.

I found the Lorelai-April awkward acquaintance level in the revival much weirder than the attempted bonding OS. It's been a decade but April still get's wrong-footed by Lorelai's jokes and Lorelai doesn't feel comfortable teasing her? That seems sad, it would have been nicer to see them as a genuine family unit. (But fits in with the general feeling that it was alternate-S7 not ten years later. 

Edited December 30, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[Melancholy]

Lorelai's attitude on Luke being Jess's guardian was obnoxious at a bunch of points. I feel like she actually had contradictory intentions. I think a part of her just really wanted to help, especially before Jess pissed her off. However, I think she also wanted to have her usual fun with teasing Luke for his whole grumpy hermit lifestyle and the incongruity of him taking on a troubled kid was co-opted into that bit under phoney color of helping because Lorelai wanted to have her insult bit/"Look at me! Totally not interested in Luke" dance while also feeling smugly superior that she was helping. It was to the point of even before Lorelai met Jess, her advice was so full of "You? Luke Danes, the "Great Communicator"? You're going to straighten the kid out?" insults that Luke had to genuinely curiously ask if her point was that he should turn Jess away. And that dynamic kept on and even increased and got more dramatic where Lorelai wasn't giving advice so much as pretending to give advice in the form of bitching about Jess being there and being negative on Luke's role.

When Jess and Rory started dating, I also think she wanted to perform the role of Parent of The Good Kid and thus had the higher ground and get herself on the record as constantly warning Luke that his delinquent nephew better not get Rory into trouble so even if things went south, she'd be "right". Luke tried imposing these rules and gambits to keep them from having sex, missing the point that Lorelai understood there was little stopping them from having sex and the point of Lorelai bringing it up to him ad naseum wasn't to ask for a direct solution but just to hear herself as The Parent of the Good Kid/Prophet. 

Lorelai was far more reasonable about April. She had every right to want to get to know her and work out a stepmother type role. (Of course, I'd say the same about Max.) However I do look at Lorelai with cynical eyes even though I ultimately like her despite her many flaws. Between her attitude on Jess and her betraying a "You need to figure out how April fits around our lives and not the other way around!", I'm suspicious that Lorelai's initial stance was reasonably wanting an amicable relationship with April but if that was granted, she'd start taking over to Luke's detriment. 

This feels more born out with the Revival where apparently, Lorelai and April aren't even close but Lorelai is trying to influence Luke on when to make the very pivotal sensitive parental choice on when to financially cut off or pull back from a college grad kid. And acting like a victim that Luke didn't follow her advice and his tone betrayed rightful irritation. I think that stance is fraught and shady even for the most involved, loving stepmothers. Generally I think a bio parent's SO shouldn't discourage the bio parent from paying for their kid at all, especially when assets aren't commingled through marriage and even then...

Edited December 30, 2016 by Melancholy

[Lady Calypso]

16 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I can kinda see why she butted in with Jess. Luke had no experience raising a teenager and she did. It's a little invasive but I think her intentions were good. She wanted to help her friend.

I do wonder if she wouldn't have pushed so hard in knowing April if Luke wasn't so dead set against it. Add that to everyone had spent time with April except her, and that underlined it even more. Lorelai's desire to be in April's life always felt weird to me. (Seriously, if a guy had been so pushy in having a relationship with Rory, her alarm bells would have gone off.) Lorelai's friendly yet not overbearing attitude in the revival feels more genuine. She has learned how to be dad's girlfriend/step-mom to April and let go of the manic desire to bond with the kid. 

I agree to an extent that Lorelai had some right to butt in to Luke taking in a seventeen year old. Luke had no idea how difficult it would be to raise a teenager and she wanted him to be careful, especially after hearing Luke say that Jess was getting into trouble. But Lorelai wasn't doing it because she knew from experience with Rory; she was basing this on her own life experiences when she was a teenager. It showed with her conversation to Jess, that she thought she knew better because she was a wild child. It's that condescending attitude that stopped any potential for a Lorelai/Jess friendly relationship. Sure, Jess was rude to her from the start, but Lorelai was the adult back then; she gave it two conversations, one of them where Jess barely said a word to her, before she threw her hands up and decided that there would be no friendly relationship there. Jess was still a kid, whether she liked it or not. She didn't bother asking what type of mother Liz was before she decided that Jess was always going to be at fault. Jess made his own choices, but Lorelai never factored in that he had a shitty life leading up to these years. 

It's why I'm happy that we got a small glimmer of hope that Lorelai and Jess reconciled and I'd hope that they have a much healthier relationship in this revival. Even if it was improvised by Lauren Graham, Lorelai telling Jess that he could stay at their house and then blowing him a kiss really did show something had changed between the two. Lorelai/Rory's fight at the cemetery aside, it was a smart move to add that kiss to Jess, because that showed more growth than a lot of the other character relationships to me. 

As for Lorelai wanting to be a part of April's life, it makes sense. Her and Luke were engaged in season 6. She would have been April's stepmother. Sure, I think she needed to let Luke take some time to figure out his relationship with April, time that he did get. Since they were serious about getting married when April entered the picture, I don't find it weird that Lorelai wanted to cultivate a relationship. However, I was more ok with Lorelai's relationship with April in the revival. Even if we got very little and we don't know the actual extent, what we saw made sense. They weren't close or having a mother-daughter relationship, but Lorelai still got to hear about April's life and they still seemed to have decent conversations. It does go to show that April might not have been around in Stars Hollow enough for the past eight/nine years that we've missed, so their personal relationship only goes so far. Anna was such a cruel character that I can easily imagine that she had only Luke visit April far more than she took April to Stars Hollow, especially once April entered high school. 

[hippielamb]

19 hours ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

The fact that they were engaged to be married and Luke kept April's existence a secret for two months no doubt colored Lorelai's attitude. But also, how Luke continued to handle it would have made most on Lorelai's shoes uncomfortable and insecure, on some level, IMO.

Oh yeah, the whole situation was messed up. I just don't know if Lorelai would have been so focused on having a relationship with April if Luke hadn't been so against it. If he had introduced them with no drama or secrets, it could have been a more relaxed scenario.

Maybe Lorelai in the revival is more laid back about it because she understands how much it means to Luke that he have a relationship with April without her being part of it. I don't have any problem with how she is with April. She's friendly and jokes around with her, the kid is comfortable in her home. They're not bosom buddies, and they shouldn't be. Lorelai has Rory for that.

Slightly off topic, I loved Rory's jealous look at Lorelai when she gave Mae Whitman's character the crodonutcake. 

16 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

I didn't find it weird at all; Lorelai and Luke were going to be husband and wife - she was going to be this girl's step mother. Of course she wanted a genuine relationship with April! Especially as Luke was totally absorbed in his new daughter and she was only 13 so is going to be around for a while. If you were his fiancee you'd naturally want to be involved not shut out. And to give Lorelai her due, she wasn't trying to usurp Luke as a parent, just have some sort of connection with April, especially once she understood Luke's insecurities about being pushed aside when she came on board. And yes Lorelai may have flipped out if a prospective step father wanted to build a relationship with Rory (hi Max!) but as covered a lot on these boards she could be unhealthily possessive and exclusive regarding Rory.

I found the Lorelai-April awkward acquaintance level in the revival much weirder than the attempted bonding OS. It's been a decade but April still get's wrong-footed by Lorelai's jokes and Lorelai doesn't feel comfortable teasing her? That seems sad, it would have been nicer to see them as a genuine family unit. (But fits in with the general feeling that it was alternate-S7 not ten years later. 

Fair enough. I personally have no problem with her not being best friends with April in the revival. I didn't have an issue with Lorelai telling Max way back in season one that Rory was her responsibility, not his. Other people have taken umbrage with that, but as a single mother it made perfect sense to me. If April were living with them, or even spending holidays/vacations in Stars Hollow, it would make more sense for Lorelai to have more of a relationship with her. 

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I agree to an extent that Lorelai had some right to butt in to Luke taking in a seventeen year old. Luke had no idea how difficult it would be to raise a teenager and she wanted him to be careful, especially after hearing Luke say that Jess was getting into trouble. But Lorelai wasn't doing it because she knew from experience with Rory; she was basing this on her own life experiences when she was a teenager. It showed with her conversation to Jess, that she thought she knew better because she was a wild child. It's that condescending attitude that stopped any potential for a Lorelai/Jess friendly relationship. Sure, Jess was rude to her from the start, but Lorelai was the adult back then; she gave it two conversations, one of them where Jess barely said a word to her, before she threw her hands up and decided that there would be no friendly relationship there. Jess was still a kid, whether she liked it or not. She didn't bother asking what type of mother Liz was before she decided that Jess was always going to be at fault. Jess made his own choices, but Lorelai never factored in that he had a shitty life leading up to these years. 

It's why I'm happy that we got a small glimmer of hope that Lorelai and Jess reconciled and I'd hope that they have a much healthier relationship in this revival. Even if it was improvised by Lauren Graham, Lorelai telling Jess that he could stay at their house and then blowing him a kiss really did show something had changed between the two. Lorelai/Rory's fight at the cemetery aside, it was a smart move to add that kiss to Jess, because that showed more growth than a lot of the other character relationships to me. 

As for Lorelai wanting to be a part of April's life, it makes sense. Her and Luke were engaged in season 6. She would have been April's stepmother. Sure, I think she needed to let Luke take some time to figure out his relationship with April, time that he did get. Since they were serious about getting married when April entered the picture, I don't find it weird that Lorelai wanted to cultivate a relationship. However, I was more ok with Lorelai's relationship with April in the revival. Even if we got very little and we don't know the actual extent, what we saw made sense. They weren't close or having a mother-daughter relationship, but Lorelai still got to hear about April's life and they still seemed to have decent conversations. It does go to show that April might not have been around in Stars Hollow enough for the past eight/nine years that we've missed, so their personal relationship only goes so far. Anna was such a cruel character that I can easily imagine that she had only Luke visit April far more than she took April to Stars Hollow, especially once April entered high school. 

I was speaking in relation to Lorelai's friendship with Luke. He was pretty clueless about dealing with a teenager, and even admitted it after he pushed Jess in the lake. 

As for the bolded part, he was extremely rude and insulting. If a kid came into my home and acted like that, I'd do more than wish I had a cream pie to throw in his face. Jess finally showed some maturity, and I didn't dislike him in the revival. (And I really hated him in the series!) I always thought the acid test would be how he was with Lorelai and Stars Hollow to see if he had changed. It's easy to be nice to Luke and Rory, they were always his defenders. Even his reaction to the woman in the newspaper office was restrained. 

[Miss Scarlet]

With the Rory stuff, I have mixed feelings. I know a lot of people were complaining after the Winter, Spring and Summer how crazy it was that Rory was so aimless and didn't have her life together. For me, I didn't find that to be that unrealistic. I know a lot of 30-somethings that have unstable temporary work or contract positions, are single or in relationships that they're unsure about. I think that given what the economy is like and housing prices and the fact that people are generally getting married and starting families older, it's not so bad.

There is part of me that wants a great ending for her. I thought the ending from s7 was actually pretty good because she had a great career prospect and it made sense to me that a 22 year old, Ivy League, aspiring journalist would choose to remain single. It felt realistic and also optimistic. But I also know that life doesn't always turn out the way we plan and there is something realistic and poignant about Paris and Rory, these high achievers who everyone thought were going to be such superstars, getting out into the real world and struggling a bit. So if they had ended the revival with her just working on the book and nothing else planned out I would have thought it was okay. But the cheating and pregnancy are really hard to swallow. It's one thing to be aimless and feel like you're not where you should be by your age but that kind of poor behaviour is in another level. 

I keep thinking back to the Rory from the beginning of the series and am so surprised that ASP knew all along that this where she was headed with a character she wrote as being so hyperresponsible, smart, kind and driven. It really does make you think -- all that time, money and effort at Chilton and Yale. I don't want to say it was wasted but it really didn't end up how she planned. I guess that's ASP's point -- you think you are or that certain people are on particular trajectories but we really can't predict what's going to happen. And looking back now I see the ASP did drop some hints that Rory would end up in a situation like this. I mean in the first episode she almost dropped out of Chilton for Dean. She got very reckless when she was around Jess starting in season 2. So in thinking back on it, she often didn't make intelligent decisions as far as her relationships were concerned. 

I have mixed feelings on the Christopher/Logan and Luke/Jess parallels. I feel like, yes, family members do often follow in each other's footsteps and so it is realistic from that perspective but I also just feel like it's an uncreative idea and ASP could do better. As is the whole "Rory writing her life story" plot. 

[TimetravellingBW]

On 1/2/2017 at 8:29 AM, Miss Scarlet said:

With the Rory stuff, I have mixed feelings. I know a lot of people were complaining after the Winter, Spring and Summer how crazy it was that Rory was so aimless and didn't have her life together. For me, I didn't find that to be that unrealistic. I know a lot of 30-somethings that have unstable temporary work or contract positions, are single or in relationships that they're unsure about. I think that given what the economy is like and housing prices and the fact that people are generally getting married and starting families older, it's not so bad.

I keep thinking back to the Rory from the beginning of the series and am so surprised that ASP knew all along that this where she was headed with a character she wrote as being so hyperresponsible, smart, kind and driven. It really does make you think -- all that time, money and effort at Chilton and Yale. I don't want to say it was wasted but it really didn't end up how she planned. I guess that's ASP's point -- you think you are or that certain people are on particular trajectories but we really can't predict what's going to happen. And looking back now I see the ASP did drop some hints that Rory would end up in a situation like this. I mean in the first episode she almost dropped out of Chilton for Dean. She got very reckless when she was around Jess starting in season 2. So in thinking back on it, she often didn't make intelligent decisions as far as her relationships were concerned. 

Personally I liked the premise of Rory being aimless and unsuccessful. Partly because - as you said - that's incredibly realistic for 30-somethings that came out into a world of huge change and economic turbulence. And also because a lot of fans were irritated at how Rory got everything handed to her on a silver platter in the original series, and this changed things round.

But the concept of Rory struggling failed because she was lost due to her own immaturity, unprofessionalism and entitlement rather than the tough job market or anything similar. And wasn't finding relationships tough because of her vagabond lifestyle or feeling lonely while her friends were married/had kids - it was because she was cheating on her sweet boyfriend and having an affair with an engaged ex. I'd have loved to see a hardworking Rory pitching ideas after losing her permanent reporting job only to get shut down repeatedly because journalism is shrinking. (Imagine how sympathetic she'd be if she'd been pushing for the Sandee Says job, came in prepared and then got shafted walking out of the elevator). Her being utterly worn down and fleeing to Stars Hollow/writing the book would be understandable at that point. Or a nervous Rory trying blind dates - online dating sites? - but unable to make anything work, and turning to Logan because she feels insecure. There were ways to make her downward spiral sympathetic and making her problems more external and less her own damn fault was the most basic step. 

Even if ASP wanted to write a "bad" Rory, the problem was that in-universe no one condemned her actions. The audience may have judged her behaviour, but Lorelai barely reacted to her admitting she cheated and the half-hearted "I'm a terrible person" in the last freaking scene was brushed off with "ah...no." Far from dealing with Rory's spiral, ASP carried through the OS problem of Rory being a horrible person but everyone worshipping her. I can take unsympathetic characters but they needed to be treated as what they are. The dissonance between Rory's character and how others react to her is infuriating.  

Carried these quotes over from the People They Love Thread from @WhosThatGirl and @HeySandyStrange about the tone deafness of ASP's writing of Rory:

Quote

Going by her public persona, ASP herself comes off as full of herself, immature, and obtuse, so it isn't a huge surprise to me that Lor and Ror have many, many undesirable qualities yet are so praised and adored within the show. It is pretty obvious to me that they are both writer avatars and even sometimes borderline Mary Sues, so I suspect ASP has a hard time admitting these characters aren't perfect little snowflakes. Personally, my issue isn't that both of them are flawed, it is that they rarely reap what they sow. It isn't relatable to me that Lorelai and Rory can be so arrogant and selfish and almost never receive any criticism or blowback for it. It took me out of the show more then once.

Quote

I'm unsure with Rory as well. Rory's unsuccessful in the revival of course but I kept getting a feeling that we as viewers were supposed to view as Rory's still great, it's just that these magazines aren't flgiving her enough of a chance and also.. HER STORY IS GOING TO BE BIGGER THAN ANY STORY SHE COULD WRITE IN A MAGAZINE ANYWAY. I could be wrong in this but I don't know. She seemed so non serious when she went to that interview in her special interview dress and her views on Logan's fiancé were written as if Rory was the wronged party. So I don't know.

Imo Rory wasn't the biggest problem - it was how other characters responded to her. (Also yes, the show seemed to say Rory was a brilliant, awesome journalist but those silly newspapers and magazines just couldn't see it!) ASP either needed to make Rory's issues less  her own fault or commit to Rory being a crappy person but exploring how/why. Which would address a lot of complaints of the original series and offer a nuanced, realistic consequence of how she was  idealised and sheltered in the OS - it's a darker take, but a twist that actually makes sense. All those complaints that Rory was too pampered and spoiled to make a good journalist or make her own way? You guys are right, that was intentional! At least then I could respect ASP's writing even if I was disappointed in Rory.

Edited January 3, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[WhosThatGirl]

I really just disliked almost everything about Rory in the revival. The Paul joke stopped being funny in Winter and then when it kept being a "I forgot to break up with him" running joke in the next three wasn't funny at all. 

But yeah, for me, it's just that no one got Rory and how she was a special snowflake and that magazine job didn't workout not because Rory didn't prepare but because the interviewer just didn't get Rory. And Rory can do so much better than that job anyway. At least that's what the show was telling me. 

And the Logan cheating stuff just bugs. I hated the Dean cheating stuff way back when but I could understand it more. Rory would have romanticized her relationship with Dean, he was her first love. It sort of made sense. But to become a cheating partner all over again? She did remember how it ended with Dean and I would think in her 30s she would maybe not go down that road again. The only time I saw her regretting the cheating was when they ran into Mitch and she looked somewhat ashamed of what they were doing.

Edited January 3, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Of for crying out loud. Rory didn't get things handed to her. The girl had been working since her teens. Even when in season 6, she out of school, she was doing community service and working for the DAR. 

Say what you will about her, but Rory is and has always been a damn hard worker. 

[Melancholy]

Yeah, I don't think laziness was Rory's problem. She was barely sleeping, tap dancing her stress away till all hours, following up publications to the point of begging, indulging Naiomi Shropshires insanity just for a hope of reproducing her New Yorker success. She hungrily gazed at the people reporting to the Condé Nast office and working their daily office job. And I found the gaze very genuine- Rory would love to diligently report to an office to write and research clearly defined assignments. 

Different generations and times require different virtues to survive and thrive. My Millennial Generation requires hustle, flexibility, thriftiness, and a "no job is beneath me" mentality more than past generations, especially Millenials entering journalism/media. Those aren't Rory's virtues.

Rory isn't purely a brilliant scrappy star who's just a victim of the times nor an indolent brat whose crappy life is all her fault- she's somewhere in between. Rory was willing to work incredibly hard and beg and torture herself for a shot at high flying prestige journalism. She wouldn't bother preparing for tabloid Buzzfeed type work just to pay the bills. Rory's not lazy but she's also not flexible or into the hustle to make her money or get her name in print anywhere. I actually could picture Rory attaining some modest media success back when there were a lot more jobs to go around and more journalists had an expectation of steady work instead of journalists competing with any one with a smart phone at the right place at the right time. And yet, that's irrelevant because that's not Rory's time.

 The story badly needs to be continued and resolved but for now, I think it's poignant. Actually the Revival indicated that the Post Smart Phone/Sharing Economy world wasn't really kind to most of the main characters. It's really not their world. Except for Doyle/Paris whose gritty ambition and technocratic way of looking at the world had its last days of nerdy outsiderness in the early 2000s before it became its version of hip and Jess who pioneered the prototypical Obama era hipsters.  

Edited January 3, 2017 by Melancholy

[random chance]

That's a good point on how journalism has changed. I saw an ad just yesterday where a news show had an app you could download and if you were near anything newsworthy they'd let you know to video it. And if they used the video, you got paid. That's the kind of thing Rory would be competing with.

Personally I always felt that Huntzberger was right - she's a born organizer, and if she had taken his advice she could have organized her way straight into the White House. Whenever she was put in charge of something it went off like clockwork. She had an instinct for delegating the right people to the right jobs, she was good at being bossy (not too aggressive, but not too meek either), she commanded respect, she problem-solved like a champ; she got things done.

[txhorns79]

Quote

That's a good point on how journalism has changed. I saw an ad just yesterday where a news show had an app you could download and if you were near anything newsworthy they'd let you know to video it. And if they used the video, you got paid. That's the kind of thing Rory would be competing with.

I don't think that's really something Rory would be competing with.  It's one thing for a news station to allow non-professionals to send them interesting videos of news events.  Most of the videos would never make it on air.  It's another for a news station to allow random people to interview subjects, write copy for a news segment or something similar.  For example, they made a big deal of Rory writing an article for The New Yorker.   That's not something any person with an IPhone could do. 

[random chance]

I only meant in the sense of being a journalist - not a features writer or an anchor. Once upon a time, that kind of thing would have been done by a stringer who maybe could work their way up. Now it's just anybody with an iphone who's near the blast zone or whatever.

[Taryn74]

You know, it's interesting that the show never explored WHY Rory wanted to "be" Christiane Amanpour.  Much like her dreaming about going to Harvard, it sounds like it was something she had just always wanted to do - but why?  It certainly wasn't because she had a natural aptitude for it (as we've discussed...lol...) so is it possibly one of those things Lorelai subconsciously pushed on her?  Was it really Lorelai who wanted to travel the world and be in the middle of the action, whatever that may mean?

Hmmm.....

[random chance]

I have wondered that myself, since the show never really addressed it. Harvard I figured was Lorelai's dream because supposedly Rory wanted to go there from the time she was a toddler, which is nuts, but why Christiane Amanpour? Did we ever even see them watch the news? It was always ancient TV shows.

[Taryn74]

8 minutes ago, random chance said:

Did we ever even see them watch the news? It was always ancient TV shows.

Ha!  Good point!

[Pam Poovey]

1 hour ago, random chance said:

Did we ever even see them watch the news? It was always ancient TV shows.

Yeah in The Deer Hunters Lorelai calls Rory in to watch the news as if it's a regular activity, but she's too busy studying for her Shakespeare test. I'm guessing Lorelai only watched the news to keep Rory company, as she soon got bored with sitting in front of it by herself and went to get ice cream.  

Other times Lorelai reacted with boredom when Rory tried to make conversation about current events such as climate change, and in Sadie, Sadie Rory tells Lorelai to read a newspaper sometime as she thinks the war in the Balkans is still ongoing, although it ended 2 years previously.

 I think the show was trying to tell us that the Journalism goal was all Rory's idea, and not influenced by Lorelai, and that Rory did keep up with current affairs through TV and newspapers.

[clack]

Rory has a relationship with a senior executive of a media empire, and she's apparently well-regarded in the journalism field.

So: why is she floundering? Logan won't give her a heads up that one of his magazines or newspapers has an open staff position for which she's qualified, she should apply? 

[TimetravellingBW]

6 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Of for crying out loud. Rory didn't get things handed to her. The girl had been working since her teens. Even when in season 6, she out of school, she was doing community service and working for the DAR. 

Say what you will about her, but Rory is and has always been a damn hard worker. 

Agree to disagree. Imo there was some stuff in the OS she genuinely did work for and some stuff that got handed to her. She certainly studied hard and had a great work ethic regarding school -  her getting into Harvard/Yale/Princeton was a culmination of that and very much earned. But a lot of non-study stuff: Student Body Vice President, editor of the Yale Daily News - felt unearned as she'd never pushed for them. (Paris literally told her she'd do all the work and the YDN staff unanimously elected her even though she'd been gone a semester). I also side-eye her getting Valedictorian over Paris who clearly worked harder than anyone, and Rory's two amazing job offers post-College despite doing a total of one internship in four years. (And her community service was something she was forced to do after literally committing a crime, so I wouldn't give her brownie points there).

To be fair, the problem got worse over the series - young Rory put in the hard yards to catch up at Chilton and creatively worked around Paris giving her the paving stones story. But she lacked that later on. I agree with @Melancholy, that Rory was great on preset work - give her a task and to-do list and she'll beaver away at it - but struggled in a flexible job market:

5 hours ago, Melancholy said:

Yeah, I don't think laziness was Rory's problem. She was barely sleeping, tap dancing her stress away till all hours, following up publications to the point of begging, indulging Naiomi Shropshires insanity just for a hope of reproducing her New Yorker success. She hungrily gazed at the people reporting to the Condé Nast office and working their daily office job. And I found the gaze very genuine- Rory would love to diligently report to an office to write and research clearly defined assignments. 

Different generations and times require different virtues to survive and thrive. My Millennial Generation requires hustle, flexibility, thriftiness, and a "no job is beneath me" mentality more than past generations, especially Millenials entering journalism/media. Those aren't Rory's virtues.

Rory isn't purely a brilliant scrappy star who's just a victim of the times nor an indolent brat whose crappy life is all her fault- she's somewhere in between. Rory was willing to work incredibly hard and beg and torture herself for a shot at high flying prestige journalism. She wouldn't bother preparing for tabloid Buzzfeed type work just to pay the bills. Rory's not lazy but she's also not flexible or into the hustle to make her money or get her name in print anywhere. I actually could picture Rory attaining some modest media success back when there were a lot more jobs to go around and more journalists had an expectation of steady work instead of journalists competing with any one with a smart phone at the right place at the right time. And yet, that's irrelevant because that's not Rory's time.

 The story badly needs to be continued and resolved but for now, I think it's poignant. Actually the Revival indicated that the Post Smart Phone/Sharing Economy world wasn't really kind to most of the main characters. It's really not their world. Except for Doyle/Paris whose gritty ambition and technocratic way of looking at the world had its last days of nerdy outsiderness in the early 2000s before it became its version of hip and Jess who pioneered the prototypical Obama era hipsters.  

That's great insight that Rory is willing to struggle for prestige - which is different from actually being willing to work. It's noticeable that Rory never really takes on a crappy college job like most students do (she had that card swiping job which we saw once and then she quit, and worked at a bookshop essentially for a family friend which is a little different from a lot of jobs). She's got a "doing this task = this reward" mentality. But if the work didn't directly lead to her being a top student at a fancy school/attending an Ivy League/glamorous journalism position did she not feel motivated? 

And yep, it felt realistic that Doyle/Paris's relentless drive and Jess's off-the-beaten track, scrappy independence would aid them in the current climate. 

4 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

You know, it's interesting that the show never explored WHY Rory wanted to "be" Christiane Amanpour.  Much like her dreaming about going to Harvard, it sounds like it was something she had just always wanted to do - but why?  It certainly wasn't because she had a natural aptitude for it (as we've discussed...lol...) so is it possibly one of those things Lorelai subconsciously pushed on her?  Was it really Lorelai who wanted to travel the world and be in the middle of the action, whatever that may mean?

Hmmm.....

I always wondered how much of Rory's Harvard/journalism dreams came from Lorelai. While a studious, bookish Rory wanting to attend an Ivy League of her own accord seems natural, the Harvard thing specifically seemed like Lorelai rebelling against her family's Yale legacy. (She mentions dressing Rory up in a Harvard sweater when she was still a toddler). And I can see the foreign correspondent being similar. I mean you've got this teenage mother working in a small town and knowing her contemporaries are going off to college/travelling/seeing the world. What dreams do you think she projects onto her daughter? The show did frame Lorelai viewing Rory as being everything she couldn't be. So Lorelai see's that little Rory loves reading and writing - and journalism seems like such an exciting career and Rory has this "life long dream" without considering whether it suits her. (Extra fodder: That New York sequence seemed to show the outgoing, curious Lorelai was actually better investigative reporter than Rory was). 

Edited January 3, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[Taryn74]

28 minutes ago, TimetravellingBW said:

I mean you've got this teenage mother working in a small town and knowing her contemporaries are going off to college/travelling/seeing the world. What dreams do you think she projects onto her daughter? The show did frame Lorelai viewing Rory as being everything she couldn't be. So Lorelai see's that little Rory loves reading and writing - and journalism seems like such an exciting career and Rory has this "life long dream" without considering whether it suits her.

Exactly!  Rory even commented to Richard once - I think in Kill Me Now - that Lorelai always wanted to travel and felt like she was missing out because she never got to.

(Speaking of, why didn't Young!Lorelai travel with R/E?  It was clear they traveled to Europe every year and implied that they had always done so.)

30 minutes ago, TimetravellingBW said:

(Extra fodder: That New York sequence seemed to show the outgoing, curious Lorelai was actually better investigative reporter than Rory was). 

I agree.  Curious that Rory couldn't turn it into a story even when her mother was doing all the work for her.  LOL.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

Exactly!  Rory even commented to Richard once - I think in Kill Me Now - that Lorelai always wanted to travel and felt like she was missing out because she never got to.

(Speaking of, why didn't Young!Lorelai travel with R/E?  It was clear they traveled to Europe every year and implied that they had always done so.)

I agree.  Curious that Rory couldn't turn it into a story even when her mother was doing all the work for her.  LOL.

She kind of gave up on it. I think if she had managed to turn it into a decent article it could have led to something better at Conde Nast, but she just didn't bother. And she didn't bother with anything else after the horrible interview at the website.

I mean, there are tons of freelance writers who would do anything to get an assignment at GQ, even if it was on spec. Or just to get someone there to know their name. She was really doing pretty well in that sense.

[solotrek]

11 hours ago, random chance said:

I have wondered that myself, since the show never really addressed it. Harvard I figured was Lorelai's dream because supposedly Rory wanted to go there from the time she was a toddler, which is nuts, but why Christiane Amanpour? Did we ever even see them watch the news? It was always ancient TV shows.

Lorelai always had The Daily Show with Jon Stewart on when she turned on the TV. Specifically off the top of my head, the end of the male Yale party ep, Jason's guest room, and when Luke bought a TV.

[timimouse]

19 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Of for crying out loud. Rory didn't get things handed to her. The girl had been working since her teens. Even when in season 6, she out of school, she was doing community service and working for the DAR. 

Say what you will about her, but Rory is and has always been a damn hard worker. 

Ummm... I'm not going to get into whether I agree with you on that or not but I did want to remind you that the Community Service was court ordered (because of the crime she committed) and she didn't even want to work as she thought that 300 hours of community service to be done in 6 months would've had her plate full. It was Emily that pushed the DAR job.

[Melancholy]

13 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

That's great insight that Rory is willing to struggle for prestige - which is different from actually being willing to work. It's noticeable that Rory never really takes on a crappy college job like most students do (she had that card swiping job which we saw once and then she quit, and worked at a bookshop essentially for a family friend which is a little different from a lot of jobs). She's got a "doing this task = this reward" mentality. But if the work didn't directly lead to her being a top student at a fancy school/attending an Ivy League/glamorous journalism position did she not feel motivated? 

Well, Rory will work to some idyllic ending. She'll work for big shot Gilmore-family-sized prestige like Ivy League/glamorous journalism. Or she'll work for the stuff that's genuinely close to her heart- single-handedly putting out the Stars Hallow Gazette, all of the volunteering that she did for Stars Hallow, her early enthusiasm about diving into the DAR stuff as part of paling around Emily, when she big-time helps with family/friend crises like Independence Inn burning down, Richard's heart attacks, at the diner after Luke's uncle died. It's not just about prestige for Rory. She's the one who volunteers for fun at Stars Hallow while Paris is bullying soup kitchen operators so she can get more hours on her records before Harvard makes its final decision. But yeah, Rory doesn't drudge or settle for working hard where it's not fun just because that's what you have to do to pay the bills when you can't get your dream job. When she's unemployed at Stars Hallow, she makes a choice to work very hard at the Stars Hallow Gazette as a passion project instead of getting some non-journalism paying job in Stars Hallow so she can pay her expenses. She's never had to be a maid to support herself and a baby and it's hard to picture her doing that and working the crappy job very hard so she can get a better one and buy a house like her mother did. Heck, it's hard to see her putting up with some of the indignities and dullness and ugliness that Richard put up with in business even in Richard's rarified life.

It's a life-problem because I'm of the school that able-bodied, capable adults of working age (which is a transient age what with college/grad school) should support themselves and I'm not sympathetic to people who won't take a job because it's not prestigious or fun and instead elect to have family pay their way indefinitely. I'm not exactly how sure HOW a big problem it is. If Rory had been supporting herself with her freelance jobs for the last ten years, but things have petered out and she's crashing with her mom with a few months until she can get an advance for Gilmore Girls, that's not such a problem. Adults shouldn't make a life out of financially relying on others- but it's different to lean on family for a short time until they can get back on their feet. I think that was left up to suspense.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Melancholy

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, timimouse said:

Ummm... I'm not going to get into whether I agree with you on that or not but I did want to remind you that the Community Service was court ordered (because of the crime she committed) and she didn't even want to work as she thought that 300 hours of community service to be done in 6 months would've had her plate full. It was Emily that pushed the DAR job.

Yeah, boo-hoo, I am a Special Snowflake and need my leisure time with my rich boyfriend.  In the first place, she got off easy with 300 hours (although it's a mystery why Logan got nothing but let's not go there), second, lots of people work two jobs these days to make ends meet, and third, 300 hours only works out to a little over 7 weeks of full time work.  It's not like she would be breaking rocks in the hot sun for the rest of her life.  Whiny wimp - you sleep with dogs (LDB) you get fleas (a record because you aren't as rich as they are).

In the past she only accepted jobs she wanted to do or was coddled at.  Putting salt shakers on the tables at the Inn was hardly a job that was taxing.  Working at the paper was something she wanted to do.  Working at the DAR was her only choice and she ended up liking it for a while and got constant praise for her "amazing" abilities.  She was supposed to be working at the bookstore but mostly made piles of books she wanted to buy.  None of these, to me, qualifies as any type of hard work.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I truly get that the Revival found her at a not so great place I never knew she was judged so harshly until I ventured into the fandom during the revival. Since then I have read all kinds of disturbing things.  Wishing she'd get a miscarriage to teach her a life lesson as she's too spoiled, selfish, isn't interested in kids anyway, doesn't deserve this or that guy and so on. It shouldn't surprise me how females are judged, both fictional and no fictional. Never ever step out of line. Ever. 

Oh wow, seriously? Now that's awful. Those are the people that take it way too far and go way too personal into a television show, but also makes me question how these people are in real life. Even though I agree that Rory's life is filled with prestige in a number of ways, I don't agree with these comments. Rory's a good person at heart, I believe that. I do think she's very lucky and has become very privileged in her adult life. In her childhood, I believe that she didn't have such luxuries because of Lorelai not wanting her to get sucked into her own parents' lifestyle. 

Stars Hollow is its own special place, because I get the feeling like Rory did volunteer which is great, but not necessarily because she wanted to or she had to do it for fun. The reason I say this because we've seen Taylor shun Rory or others when they don't participate in town events (Rory turning down Ice Cream Queen). We've seen how active the entire town is and how they treat outsiders who don't get it. We've seen the town being condescending and holier than thou, so to speak. The town is not light when it comes to their members not participating.

 Now, Rory was a very nice and shy girl as a child/teen and I have no doubt she enjoyed volunteering and doing things for her town. She does help out when she is absolutely needed. However, once Rory hit her college years and finally moved away, I think she gained a different perspective. It's hard, though, because we have hardly seen Rory work at the things that she's passionate for. More specifically, journalism. We've seen her be an editor and we've seen her work for the DAR. However, she's always talked about writing and being a journalist and how many times have we seen her do that? We've heard about it, such as the New Yorker piece that Luke has on the back of his menu in Winter, but we don't see her do much writing. Again, we see her take on a job to write an autobiography for some woman, but those scenes are mostly filled with the woman complaining and Rory complaining about the job. The Conde Naste thing is one rare instance where we see Rory actively pursue a job relentlessly, but it's really just for one scene. It sucks because we hear about a little of Rory's life between season 7 and the revival but not enough to know how she's been supporting herself, how she's been able to live in New York for all these years, and what kind of jobs she's been taking as a freelance writer. Apparently she has all these points to travel to London for who knows how long, but she's broke enough at 32 where she has to move home and she has to finally take on jobs that she might not want.

Also, look at the Sandee Says job. Even though the CEO handled the situation wrong with not telling Rory that she was doing a job interview, even though she kept trying to pursue Rory for a year, the basic fact is that any good person would research a job before taking it. Rory did not do the basic job searching criteria. I was taught in high school that before pursuing any job, learn about the company before going to a job interview or accepting the job. Rory took it because she was out of options and thought it was a for sure thing. But she brought absolutely nothing to the table. That's all on Rory for not having anything prepared. That's not smart of a 32 year old adult Rory to do. She's been taking freelance jobs for 10 years. She had to have learned that along the way. Being handed a job shouldn't mean that you don't do any research. It made Rory look equally as bad as the CEO who led her under false pretenses. 

I think older Rory, especially as she got more involved with her grandparents' lifestyle and began mingling in their circles, did become privileged to an extent where she knew she had more people to fall back on when things got rough. It's not a bad thing, but I do think it allowed Rory to fail more often and perhaps not try as hard to support herself. I know because I live from a somewhat similar personal experience. My parents aren't as rich as the Gilmores, not even close, but I am lucky enough where I have people to fall back on financially and I've only recently began breaking out of that mentality myself. 

I think what is meant by prestige is that Rory doesn't have to take the lesser than jobs to make ends meet. She can take whatever dream job as she wants, whenever they come, and she can turn down the ones that she doesn't want. It's tough because Rory's 32 at the time of this revival when I'm guessing ASP was wanting her to be freshly out of college before ASP left the show for season 7. 32 year old Rory looks spoiled when turning her nose up at jobs that she may not have wanted. 24/25 year old Rory might not have because she would have still been young and exploring her options. 

Rory just needs to stop complaining, I think. It all started when she began attending Yale and although it looks like she's just becoming less shy and more outspoken, it's really her also complaining and whining and it's not a good look for her. Also, I find that Lauren Graham delivers her complaints and snark with more warmth than Alexis Bledel does. I think back to Summer, when Rory is snapping at Esther for continuing to file. Alexis delivered her line with such ferocity and such force that I immediately thought that Lauren would have delivered it with more of a smile. As such, for me, it made Rory look cruel, even if it wasn't meant that way. 

Teenage Rory worked hard. College Rory did not for me, and I do think a good part of it is that she's part of her grandparents' world a lot more, hanging out with all these other rich folks, and she loses herself quite a bit. Even if ASP didn't make it seem that way, look at how little Lane and Rory hang out in the later years. Look at this revival, for instance, where Rory/Lane have two short scenes together while people like Paris and Logan have multiple scenes and storylines with Rory. Younger Rory wouldn't protest as much as older Rory does, and for me, that makes all the difference on how I look at her. I wish it didn't, but it really, really does. 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Lady Calypso

[random chance]

2 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

I never knew she was judged so harshly until I ventured into the fandom during the revival.

I think it's just that there's always more conversation fodder in criticizing something.

[dubbel zout]

17 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

In her childhood, I believe that she didn't have such luxuries because of Lorelai not wanting her to get sucked into her own parents' lifestyle. 

She didn't seem to lack much, though. And even when she went to Chilton, we didn't see her struggle with being one of the (relative) have-nots.

18 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

the CEO who led her under false pretenses

I don't understand how Rory was misled. It's not unreasonable to have to pitch a few ideas even if you're being pursued by a company. It shows you've thought about how you fit with the company. FWIW, I don't think Sandee Says would have been right for Rory regardless, but the idea that CEO was somehow dishonest with Rory because she didn't instantly offer the job puzzles me. 

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't understand how Rory was misled. It's not unreasonable to have to pitch a few ideas even if you're being pursued by a company. It shows you've thought about how you fit with the company. FWIW, I don't think Sandee Says would have been right for Rory regardless, but the idea that CEO was somehow dishonest with Rory because she didn't instantly offer the job puzzles me. 

Definitely not unreasonable to pitch a few ideas. Even if she had been handed the job, Rory should have expected more than just to sign paperwork on the first day. However, I still think that Sandee pursuing Rory relentlessly gave Rory the wrong idea, which is on Sandee. I think Sandee told Rory multiple times that she wanted her to work for the company and that she was always welcome. Whatever else had been said, it could have easily been made to believe that Rory was a sure thing for the job. It's still on Rory, but Sandee definitely had the wrong approach as well. She was misled because of how Sandee was approaching her. But yeah, I'm on board with you on Rory needing to be prepared. She definitely was in the wrong for how that interview went. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

I don't understand how Rory was misled. It's not unreasonable to have to pitch a few ideas even if you're being pursued by a company. It shows you've thought about how you fit with the company. FWIW, I don't think Sandee Says would have been right for Rory regardless, but the idea that CEO was somehow dishonest with Rory because she didn't instantly offer the job puzzles me. 

I think the way that Sandee pursued Rory made it seem like all Rory had to do was say "Yes," and a job would be hers.  I think Sandee was misleading in her approach, and didn't really give the impression that Rory would be interviewing for a job.   

[lulu1960]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I think the way that Sandee pursued Rory made it seem like all Rory had to do was say "Yes," and a job would be hers.  I think Sandee was misleading in her approach, and didn't really give the impression that Rory would be interviewing for a job.   

Yes. Why would Sandee be sending Rory gift baskets, and snap chat videos of herself "waiting?" That's wooing someone into taking the job. Just like the Durham group was wooing Lorelai with stuff.

[Guest]

I do see, and wonder if we're supposed to see a correlation, between Rory's volunteer-willingness and her exposure to her grandparent's world. Season 1 before exposure and in the beginning stages, we see her working at the Inn, volunteering in Stars Hollow, etc. Season 2, we see a little bit of it when she helps some at Luke's Diner in Dead Uncles and Vegetables. A Tisket, a Tasket was as much social as volunteer, imo.  However, I don't recall seeing her do anything like that Season 3 or beyond.  Card swiping was too terrible for her by season 4.  She did the Festival of Living Art, but that wasn't as much volunteering as performing, and even then she leveraged it into something she wanted (Lorelai to get her way). By the time she was deep in her grandparents' world and more entrenched with LDB, she viewed 300 hours over 6 months as a huge burden.

She certainly wouldn't be the first young adult to have her head turned by the life of luxury and be less of a hard worker.

[hippielamb]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Also, look at the Sandee Says job. Even though the CEO handled the situation wrong with not telling Rory that she was doing a job interview, even though she kept trying to pursue Rory for a year, the basic fact is that any good person would research a job before taking it. Rory did not do the basic job searching criteria. I was taught in high school that before pursuing any job, learn about the company before going to a job interview or accepting the job. Rory took it because she was out of options and thought it was a for sure thing. But she brought absolutely nothing to the table. That's all on Rory for not having anything prepared. That's not smart of a 32 year old adult Rory to do. She's been taking freelance jobs for 10 years. She had to have learned that along the way. Being handed a job shouldn't mean that you don't do any research. It made Rory look equally as bad as the CEO who led her under false pretenses. 

Is that for media related jobs? I never heard of that. Rory could have done some research but as a viewer, I thought Sandee was basically begging Rory to work for her. When Rory was led into an interview and told to sell her brand, I was surprised so Rory's  confusion made sense. 

I am dismayed by the Rory criticism, it seems people wanted her to regress into the teenage girl she was. We all saw Yale era Rory and who she had become. 

[Lady Calypso]

18 hours ago, hippielamb said:

Is that for media related jobs? I never heard of that. Rory could have done some research but as a viewer, I thought Sandee was basically begging Rory to work for her. When Rory was led into an interview and told to sell her brand, I was surprised so Rory's  confusion made sense. 

I am dismayed by the Rory criticism, it seems people wanted her to regress into the teenage girl she was. We all saw Yale era Rory and who she had become. 

Not just for media related jobs. In my high school, we had a six week course called "Careers" (the second half was called "Civics") where we were taught the basic etiquette in order to go for any job interview, whether it's for a high paying full time job, or a part time job. I have had a few other people as well tell me that doing some research about the company is helpful because if a job interviewer asks if you have any questions for them, or if they ask you what you know about the company (again, assuming it's not a part time job), you won't be stunned and unprepared. Preparedness is something that I was taught in this particular class, just so you aren't caught off guard, much like Rory was. I think it's especially reckless of Rory who assumed that she already got the job. For me, the fact that Rory accepted a job without knowing anything about the company reflects very poorly on her. I'm not sure why she didn't, or why she couldn't have made up any potential ideas just in case she would have to start work on that first day. 

I guess I was surprised more by Rory's unpreparedness. It's one thing to be confused about being hired or not, which I can see why Rory thought she had the job, only to be told otherwise. It's another to have nothing prepared. No questions, no ideas for stories, or no ideas about the company itself. At 32 years old, I'd assume that she's done many interviews for her freelancing writing jobs (I don't know how freelance jobs work, though, so I could be wrong) so I'd assume that she would know to be prepared for anything.

Again, I know people do look back on Rory's teenage years, but for me, those were the best years for her. She was intelligent, prepared for anything, and able to adapt and adjust. She took on any role that was thrown at her and didn't complain or turn her nose up at it. 17 year old Rory, I truly believe, would have had at least an idea or two to write for Sandee Says. I just think back to when Rory started working at the Chilton newspaper and she had to adjust to Paris giving her a crappy piece and she wrote it in a night. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

Lady Calypso, I completely agree that Rory's character "peaked in highschool" (as she would put it). But I also believe her not prepairing for the Sandee Says Job, falling asleep during an interview, not taking full advantage of the GQ article about NY lines, hell even the whole thing with both Logan and Paul were ALL symptoms of the same disease. Girl was burnt out. 

[random chance]

She was burnt out and tired from waiting around in limbo for ten years so she could be written as pregnant and say three of the last four words.

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not just for media related jobs. In my high school, we had a six week course called "Careers" (the second half was called "Civics") where we were taught the basic etiquette in order to go for any job interview, whether it's for a high paying full time job, or a part time job. I have had a few other people as well tell me that doing some research about the company is helpful because if a job interviewer asks if you have any questions for them, or if they ask you what you know about the company (again, assuming it's not a part time job), you won't be stunned and unprepared. Preparedness is something that I was taught in this particular class, just so you aren't caught off guard, much like Rory was. I think it's especially reckless of Rory who assumed that she already got the job. For me, the fact that Rory accepted a job without knowing anything about the company reflects very poorly on her. I'm not sure why she didn't, or why she couldn't have made up any potential ideas just in case she would have to start work on that first day. 

Yes, I have always been told you should research a company before a job interview and have questions lined up. I have even read articles written by hiring managers who say if an interviewee doesn't ask an intelligent question they won't hire the person. However, I didn't get the sense that Rory was going on a job interview. Sadie was sending her gifts and talking about wanting Rory to be on her staff. I've never heard of someone being wooed for a job interview. I've heard of cases where someone tells a contact, "Hey, we have a job opening at company XYZ I think you'd be great for. Why don't you send me your resume?" Or cases where someone has to go through an official interview process even though they're guaranteed the job. But neither of those were happening here. Now Rory should still have done some research and had ideas lined up. Because once she was on staff wouldn't she have had to pitch ideas? But I can understand her getting thrown when she realized it was just an interview.

When Lorelai told Rory to take the job with the website she mention Rory not having anything steady in awhile. So maybe Rory has had staff jobs at some point in the past ten years and has just been doing the freelance thing more recently? I really wish that had been made more clear.

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Yes, I have always been told you should research a company before a job interview and have questions lined up. I have even read articles written by hiring managers who say if an interviewee doesn't ask an intelligent question they won't hire the person. However, I didn't get the sense that Rory was going on a job interview. Sadie was sending her gifts and talking about wanting Rory to be on her staff. I've never heard of someone being wooed for a job interview. I've heard of cases where someone tells a contact, "Hey, we have a job opening at company XYZ I think you'd be great for. Why don't you send me your resume?" Or cases where someone has to go through an official interview process even though they're guaranteed the job. But neither of those were happening here. Now Rory should still have done some research and had ideas lined up. Because once she was on staff wouldn't she have had to pitch ideas? But I can understand her getting thrown when she realized it was just an interview.

When Lorelai told Rory to take the job with the website she mention Rory not having anything steady in awhile. So maybe Rory has had staff jobs at some point in the past ten years and has just been doing the freelance thing more recently? I really wish that had been made more clear.

And that's why Sandee shares a good portion of the blame. Sandee, as the CEO, should have made clear to Rory from the moment she called back to accept that job that she would have to go through a short job interview first. Sandee clearly is not that professional by the way she handled the situation as well (for me, I thought it was rude for Sandee to call Rory to tell her that she didn't get the job while Rory was still in the building) so Rory being taken aback by it being a job interview is not on Rory, just as Sandee's not at fault for Rory having not prepared to work on her first day or have some sort of idea of the company beforehand. 

Also, the way Rory and Sandee shouted to each other on the phone? Totally unprofessional on both ends. I should probably rewatch Spring, though. 

Edited January 6, 2017 by Lady Calypso

[KaveDweller]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And that's why Sandee shares a good portion of the blame. Sandee, as the CEO, should have made clear to Rory from the moment she called back to accept that job that she would have to go through a short job interview first. Sandee clearly is not that professional by the way she handled the situation as well (for me, I thought it was rude for Sandee to call Rory to tell her that she didn't get the job while Rory was still in the building) so Rory being taken aback by it being a job interview is not on Rory, just as Sandee's not at fault for Rory having not prepared to work on her first day or have some sort of idea of the company beforehand. 

Also, the way Rory and Sandee shouted to each other on the phone? Totally unprofessional on both ends. I should probably rewatch Spring, though. 

That whole phone call made both women look like high school mean girls.

Although like Sandee said, it was weird that Rory had 3 cell phones, and that she apparently gave everyone all 3 numbers despite claiming each had its own purpose. Most people only have a separate phone for work if they work for a company and get a work provided phone. Rory wasn't working for a company, so why did she buy herself a different phone?

[Lady Calypso]

8 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Although like Sandee said, it was weird that Rory had 3 cell phones, and that she apparently gave everyone all 3 numbers despite claiming each had its own purpose. Most people only have a separate phone for work if they work for a company and get a work provided phone. Rory wasn't working for a company, so why did she buy herself a different phone?

I know! And wouldn't that increase her phone bill as well? So her being broke with three phones was ridiculous early on. I'd hope that she cancelled her phone bills after tossing the phones in the trash!

[Guest]

I kind of feel like at first glance (though I really need to watch it a second time), we are supposed to think Rory is wildly successful at first. And the realization that she's not is supposed to dawn on us like it dawns on the characters.  Because when she first shows up - so high powered she has three phones, New Yorker article, can only stay for a day- I thought "Oh, so here we're going to have perfect Rory stay perfect and not address her flaws at all."  Then as the episodes unravel, you realize that the initial success was a façade.

The Sandee thing was weird, but you would think Rory could have recovered and would have at least 1 or 2 ideas percolating. If she'd been doing freelance since the campaign ended, you would think she would have some ideas. Bring even one of them up.

[timimouse]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I know! And wouldn't that increase her phone bill as well? So her being broke with three phones was ridiculous early on. I'd hope that she cancelled her phone bills after tossing the phones in the trash!

A broke person would not throw those phones in the trash! Sell online? Trade in? Give to a friend. Who has a hissy fit and throws away $800 phones? That really bugged me!

[random chance]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

I kind of feel like at first glance (though I really need to watch it a second time), we are supposed to think Rory is wildly successful at first. And the realization that she's not is supposed to dawn on us like it dawns on the characters. 

Ohhh that's brilliant and probably what was supposed to happen. Too bad the promos kind of blew it!

[TimetravellingBW]

8 hours ago, deaja said:

I kind of feel like at first glance (though I really need to watch it a second time), we are supposed to think Rory is wildly successful at first. And the realization that she's not is supposed to dawn on us like it dawns on the characters.  Because when she first shows up - so high powered she has three phones, New Yorker article, can only stay for a day- I thought "Oh, so here we're going to have perfect Rory stay perfect and not address her flaws at all."  Then as the episodes unravel, you realize that the initial success was a façade.

The Sandee thing was weird, but you would think Rory could have recovered and would have at least 1 or 2 ideas percolating. If she'd been doing freelance since the campaign ended, you would think she would have some ideas. Bring even one of them up.

6 hours ago, random chance said:

Ohhh that's brilliant and probably what was supposed to happen. Too bad the promos kind of blew it!

That's really interesting. I'm trying to imagine how I would have viewed Rory's career if I hadn't read any of the external information, because I definitely went in knowing the set up of her being a vagabond and just floating from story to story. I guess they did hint at her difficulties early on with her Atlantic piece getting dropped, but also played up how frantically busy she was jetting from place to place and "I can only come for one day!" and leaving Richard's funeral to get on a plane. (I have serious question marks around her leaving Richard's funeral but will move it to the Nitpicking thread).

On 1/5/2017 at 5:14 AM, dubbel zout said:

I don't understand how Rory was misled. It's not unreasonable to have to pitch a few ideas even if you're being pursued by a company. It shows you've thought about how you fit with the company. FWIW, I don't think Sandee Says would have been right for Rory regardless, but the idea that CEO was somehow dishonest with Rory because she didn't instantly offer the job puzzles me. 

On 1/6/2017 at 8:10 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Not just for media related jobs. In my high school, we had a six week course called "Careers" (the second half was called "Civics") where we were taught the basic etiquette in order to go for any job interview, whether it's for a high paying full time job, or a part time job. I have had a few other people as well tell me that doing some research about the company is helpful because if a job interviewer asks if you have any questions for them, or if they ask you what you know about the company (again, assuming it's not a part time job), you won't be stunned and unprepared. Preparedness is something that I was taught in this particular class, just so you aren't caught off guard, much like Rory was. 

On 1/5/2017 at 1:00 PM, hippielamb said:

Is that for media related jobs? I never heard of that. Rory could have done some research but as a viewer, I thought Sandee was basically begging Rory to work for her. When Rory was led into an interview and told to sell her brand, I was surprised so Rory's  confusion made sense. 

Being prepared and coming in with ideas seems wise in most job interviews, but in my experience is especially essential in the media field which involves thinking up ideas and writing about certain topics. When I've interviewed for media roles before (admittedly Communications/PR positions but journalism is similar), the 101 interview question "what can you bring to the table" has asked for ideas as well as skills. Depending on how much the company wants, some interviews I've gone in with just verbal ideas, some with pre-written plans/brainstorms to show them and in one case had to write a press release and social media sample for the organisation on the spot. Sure, I didn't end up using most of that content in the actual jobs but it shows the interviewer what you can do.

So bare minimum you need knowledge of the organisation/company/publication in order to know what kind of material and approaches would be suitable. Because producing material is what media & comms people do - especially at a junior level. While Rory didn't expect to have to sell herself or her skills, her not being able to think up story topics means she literally couldn't do the job. Most people I'm studying with are aware of what's expected in the application process for these jobs and we're only in our early twenties/in grad school so are only mostly dealing with internships/part-time/summer work - not even full on, permanent positions. Meanwhile Rory is 32 and has been a journalist for a decade - but seemed to expect to waltz in on her first day, knowing next to nothing about what SandeeSays produced and start writing whatever came into her head?

Edited January 6, 2017 by TimetravellingBW

[Pam Poovey]

58 minutes ago, TimetravellingBW said:

Meanwhile Rory is 32 and has been a journalist for a decade - but seemed to expect to waltz in on her first day, knowing next to nothing about what SandeeSays produced and start writing whatever came into her head?

It suggested to me that Rory didn't even think she needed to think up or promote her own story ideas. She seemed to believe that she came in to the website offices just to sign paperwork, and that at a later date she would begin work and be given a desk and assignments to complete. She was acting as if she still worked for the Yale Daily News or the Franklin, where the editor would hand her the assignments and it was her task to write them up and then talk it through with the editor.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, TimetravellingBW said:

That's really interesting. I'm trying to imagine how I would have viewed Rory's career if I hadn't read any of the external information, because I definitely went in knowing the set up of her being a vagabond and just floating from story to story. I guess they did hint at her difficulties early on with her Atlantic piece getting dropped, but also played up how frantically busy she was jetting from place to place and "I can only come for one day!" and leaving Richard's funeral to get on a plane. (I have serious question marks around her leaving Richard's funeral but will move it to the Nitpicking thread).

I didn't read anything before watching, I had just seen the promo where Rory is telling Jess she has no job, no house, no credit, etc. So when I watched the first episode, I thought, oh I guess we start with Rory at a high point and then she loses her job and doesn't know what to do. Because at the beginning it did seem like she was in a good place. But after watching the whole thing, I don't think that was the case. I think she probably did give up her apartment because she could no longer afford it, and not because she really wanted to live out of a suitcase and crash at all her friends' houses.

[Frelling Tralk]

On 03/01/2017 at 11:56 PM, TimetravellingBW said:

That's great insight that Rory is willing to struggle for prestige - which is different from actually being willing to work. It's noticeable that Rory never really takes on a crappy college job like most students do 

My impression was that a lot of Rory's entitlement was about living up to everyone else's expectations of her. Lorelai always wanted Rory to go to Harvard and experience everything that her mother never got to do, and to the Gilmore's she was their star prodigy, they saw Rory's future successes as a way of making up for how deeply Lorelai had disappointed them. And after Rory graduated top of her class, after she went to Yale and ended up editor of The Yale Daily News, I imagine that the pressure on her to do "great things" with her life was more intense than ever. Of course their admiration of Rory was only ever shown in a supportive light, but it was also made very clear that none of them expected Rory to settle for a run of the mill office job, and there is a definite suffocating aspect to that as well 

There are comments here on how Rory did such a great job with event planning when she was working for the DAR, maybe that was her calling, but remember that that sub-plot ended with Richard horrified at the thought that Rory might actually end up stuck doing something so meaningless. He didn't see it as Rory thriving with event planning and making a really nice job of it, he saw it as Rory wasting her time on "tea parties" and being frivolous. He was genuinally horrified and sought out Lorelai for help on the terrible mistake that they'd made in ignoring Lorelai's warnings on Rory having lost her way, it was made very clear that he wanted more for her. That he expected more from her. Heck Lorelai stops speaking to Rory entirely when Rory drops out of Yale and has a crisis of faith over whether she's really got the drive to be a journalist 

IMO that was behind Rory not settling for lesser jobs as many viewers (rightfully) suggested that she could easily have done, she would have viewed herself as a failure after all of the expectations that were heaped on her shoulders, after all the money and sacrifices that were made for her education at the best schools in the country. Rory was always a people pleaser, and she would certainly have wanted to make her Grandparents proud of whatever she ended up doing. In the Spring episode she was fretting with Logan about the website job, not because it was something that she didn't think that she would enjoy doing, but again because of appearances, she wanted Logan's opinion on how much less prestigious it was than The New Yorker

We the audience can see that Mitchum was probably right that Rory's calling was more one of Personal Assistant, but imagine how the Gilmore's would have taken that when they had build their hopes up so high about how their granddaughter was going to change the world in her chosen field. I think that Rory was very much aware of those expectations, and that's mostly why she ended up floundering later on, because any job possibility had to be seen as a worthy one for the Gilmore's great white hope

[hippielamb]

On 1/6/2017 at 6:30 PM, TimetravellingBW said:

Being prepared and coming in with ideas seems wise in most job interviews, but in my experience is especially essential in the media field which involves thinking up ideas and writing about certain topics. When I've interviewed for media roles before (admittedly Communications/PR positions but journalism is similar), the 101 interview question "what can you bring to the table" has asked for ideas as well as skills. Depending on how much the company wants, some interviews I've gone in with just verbal ideas, some with pre-written plans/brainstorms to show them and in one case had to write a press release and social media sample for the organisation on the spot. Sure, I didn't end up using most of that content in the actual jobs but it shows the interviewer what you can do.

So bare minimum you need knowledge of the organisation/company/publication in order to know what kind of material and approaches would be suitable. Because producing material is what media & comms people do - especially at a junior level. While Rory didn't expect to have to sell herself or her skills, her not being able to think up story topics means she literally couldn't do the job. Most people I'm studying with are aware of what's expected in the application process for these jobs and we're only in our early twenties/in grad school so are only mostly dealing with internships/part-time/summer work - not even full on, permanent positions. Meanwhile Rory is 32 and has been a journalist for a decade - but seemed to expect to waltz in on her first day, knowing next to nothing about what SandeeSays produced and start writing whatever came into her head?

Thanks to you and Lady Calypso for the information. I am closer in age to Lorelai, and the idea of researching a company pre-internet sounded odd to me. I suppose it's expected now in our world that has social media accounts for every business or organization. It makes the most sense for people in a journalistic field. I'm a small business owner and have hired many people over the years and never expected someone to ask me questions or know much about my business. This is illuminating. So I guess Sandee's line of telling Rory to sell her in the interview is a common tactic. It felt like it came out of nowhere, and maybe that's why Rory floundered. She likes to be prepared and clearly wasn't. I wonder if Sandee does that to all writers because it makes her look like she's on a power trip.