Daryl: Your Leading Man and Norman Reedus: the Actor

[ghoulina]

Also I think the wound Tyrese had is a big clue to the timeline in The Grove. It had time to get infected and then heal (since it clearly wasn't bothering him when they left) which would take at least a week realistically. I also don't think Lizzie would have gone from deluded to actually murderous overnight. Its just not how mental illness works Most people who do things like that don't snap they form a plan in their minds before they take action.

 

I don't think this show has ever been great about wound continuity, so I wouldn't base a timeline on the state of Tyrese's wound. Also, I don't think Lizzie was ever "murderous". In her mind, she did not "murder" her sister. And her state of mind didn't happen over night. She had been seeing walkers as people since the opening of the season, when she was calling the guy at the fence Nick and got more upset about him "dying" than she did over her own father. She was likely the one playing with dead animals down in the tombs. She stabbed those baby rabbits, and came close to smothering Judith. It really seemed she was teetering on the edge the entire season. She was becoming more and more desperate to prove her theory to people, to make them see that walkers were still people, just different. When Carol and Tyrese left them alone, she finally had her chance. 

 

I just cannot believe the time at the The Grove was a few weeks. Or even a week. It seemed to me like just a few days. Carol and Tyrese came upon Terminus right as Rick and co. were being corralled into the train car, so they could not have been that far behind everyone on the road.

[RedheadZombie]

Here's that scene--ignore the title, I'm not a Caryl shipper. It was just the only instance I could find of that scene by itself rather than in a longer video of deleted scenes. (Yes, I'm that bored waiting for the next episode that I'm watching TWD deleted scenes from all seasons!)

Edited to fix typo--Daryl wasn't 'in our screens' he was on them.

 

I followed your link to 101 Reasons to Ship Caryl.  I saw a scene I had completely forgotten.  Daryl was laying in bed with his head bandaged - I guess following Andrea shooting him.  He's bare chested and the blanket is down at his waist.  He sees Carol and like a outraged virgin, jerks the covers up to cover his chest.  At some point she kisses him on the forehead like she's tucking him in.

[Pestilentia]

 

So the timeline is questionable at best

Is there something wrong in there? Something specific that bothers you?

If there is something in there you disagree with or think is unclear then help edit!

As it stands this is what we have, it is as close to reliable as is humanly possible, and I thank the many contributing members who take the time to maintain this for me.

 

 

I had read in a review of the ep that the book was for those trying to help those who had been abused rather than a book for the victims themselves, so if that's the case, I think it's more to do with Carol (A) because he picked it up from the shelter Carol went to, and (B) while Carl went through something traumatic, I don't think that isolated (and stopped) attack would be as soul destroying and require as much support as someone who was abused for YEARS.

It was a random book on childhood abuse, it was lying there, and Daryl snagged it.

It's not as if he had access to a full library of psychology textbooks and the luxury of time to choose the single title most pertinent to his own situation. He grabbed what was there.

I'm 100% certain he was thinking of himself when he grabbed it.

I don't think his thoughts at that moment leaned too much toward understanding and helping other victims of abuse- he's still living in the immediate trauma of his own life and trying to understand what is going on in his own head, much less that of others.

He's come a long way but he's nowhere near ready to become Dr. Daryl and start fixing other people.

 

ETA:

I followed your link to 101 Reasons to Ship Caryl.  I saw a scene I had completely forgotten.  Daryl was laying in bed with his head bandaged - I guess following Andrea shooting him.  He's bare chested and the blanket is down at his waist.  He sees Carol and like a outraged virgin, jerks the covers up to cover his chest.  At some point she kisses him on the forehead like she's tucking him in.

 

I think that at that point he was just hiding scars.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Pestilentia

[indeed]

Here's that scene--ignore the title, I'm not a Caryl shipper. It was just the only instance I could find of that scene by itself rather than in a longer video of deleted scenes. (Yes, I'm that bored waiting for the next episode that I'm watching TWD deleted scenes from all seasons!)

Thanks for the link! I hadn't seen that. It's a nice scene; would've liked to have seen it in the actual episode--didn't particularly care for Daryl so easily going with the flow of being the heavy. I even liked his interaction with Carl, but if they had left that in it just would've been yet another instance of Carl not being where he's supposed to be and we had enough of that in season 2! I've been watching the S2 repeats shown on Wednesdays and that still gets my blood boiling. LOL

[NoWillToResist]

Well, I guess the whole line about Daryl looking at Beth and just seeing another dead girl was some blatant foreshadowing. Damn.

 

Couldn't he have carried Beth out in a more comfortable manner? That position looked awkward as hell; must've killed his arms.

 

Maybe Daryl should swing by the library the Washington-bound gang visited, go to the self-help section, and find himself some books on dealing with grief and loss. Boy's gonna need it. Shit.

 

I was very puzzled by the lack of reaction between Beth and Daryl seeing each other again. I get that they were at the end of a tense stand-off, but they both bonded during their time after the prison. She literally did not spare a look at him as he reached out his hand to guide her to the 'safety' of the back of the group. And also, that hand out was all he gave her; no hug, no side grip, nothing. Rick did more. WTF?

[editorgrrl]

From the "Coda" episode thread:

Beth was Sophia 2.0 - Daryl and Carol have switched roles,

 

I find this theory really interesting, and I'd love to know what all y'all think.

 

I just don't understand why Beth's death has to be all about Daryl's manpain. Maggie lost her sister, only ten days or so after the death of their father. Glenn lost a sister-in-law, and has to figure out how to support his wife. Rick had a fatherly dynamic with Beth. 

 

I did like that Carol put her hand on Daryl's shoulder. But Beth is not Daryl's Sophia—Merle was.

[NoWillToResist]

I just don't understand why Beth's death has to be all about Daryl's manpain.

 

 

I think that's because of the way the show framed it. Daryl was the only one talking about her; he was on the mission to find and rescue her. The show had DARYL shoot Dawn after Beth was killed, not leader Rick. We focused and stayed on Daryl's reaction and even had Carol come up behind him to place a hand on his shoulder. He then had the dubious honour of carrying the body out of the hospital. All of these choices very much put Daryl front and centre where Beth's death is concerned.

[BrokenRemote]

And yet if the show were really interested in showing us the amazing bond Daryl and Beth had, you'd think they'd at least show a quick glance between the two.

[PunkyMouse]

From the "Coda" episode thread:

I find this theory really interesting, and I'd love to know what all y'all think.

I just don't understand why Beth's death has to be all about Daryl's manpain. Maggie lost her sister, only ten days or so after the death of their father. Glenn lost a sister-in-law, and has to figure out how to support his wife. Rick had a fatherly dynamic with Beth.

I did like that Carol put her hand on Daryl's shoulder. But Beth is not Daryl's Sophia—Merle was.

I actually agree with GreyBunny. It really seemed to me that the image of Daryl carrying DeadBeth echoed Tara's sister carrying dead blonde kid (sorry - totally blanking on names). It read parental to me.

[Pete Martell]

I like Daryl, but if anyone ever asked me to give them reasons why his manpain and emo woe bores me silly and annoys me at the lost story possibilities, well...

 

[GreyBunny]

Daryl sees Carol:  Runs and picks her up and hugs her like mad.

Daryl sees Beth:  Oh, hi kid.

 

If Beth and Daryl were supposed to have some epic romance (they weren't) it wasn't evident when they saw each other again. 

 

Someone had to carry Beth.  Tyreese was supporting Carol, Sasha and Noah probably couldn't have carried her so that left Rick and Daryl.  It was 50-50 who would do it and since Rick was the leader and he walked out first giving Maggie a warning head-shake and Daryl was the last one who saw her before she was captured, Daryl might as well be the one.  I would have laughed if he had tossed her body over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes.

Edited December 2, 2014 by GreyBunny

[NoWillToResist]

Daryl sees Carol:  Runs and picks her up and hugs her like mad.

Daryl sees Beth:  Oh, hi kid.

 

If Beth and Daryl were supposed to have some epic romance (they weren't) it wasn't evident when they saw each other again. 

 

Someone had to carry Beth.  Tyreese was supporting Carol, Sasha and Noah probably couldn't have carried her so that left Rick and Daryl.  It was 50-50 who would do it and since Rick was the leader and he walked out first giving Maggie a warning head-shake and Daryl was the last one who saw her before she was captured, Daryl might as well be the one.  I would have laughed if he had tossed her body over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes.

 

Oh, I wasn't meaning to imply anything romantic about Daryl/Beth. I was just highlighting the many ways in which TPTB focused on Daryl re: Beth and her death. I do not understand their reunion at all; the utter lack of, well, ANYTHING really, surprised me. It was almost as though TPTB didn't bother scripting anything for them to do since they were in the background of the scene rather than the focus. I was really expecting Beth to hug Daryl once she got to him. For her to not even LOOK IN HIS DIRECTION was a big wtf moment for me.

 

The thing with Rick not carrying Beth out though...no one was expecting Maggie et al to be there, so why wouldn't he have taken her body? But my bigger question is: why didn't they get a sheet from the hospital in order to wrap her body up? It just pissed me off because it seems like they only bothered to carry her out with her bloody ponytail and whatnot so that Maggie - who wasn't even supposed to be there - would see and lose her shit.

 

I think part of the reason for the difference in Daryl's reaction to seeing Carol again vs seeing Beth again was that he knew that Beth was alive (or had strong reason to believe that she still would be by the time they got to her) whereas Carol was AWOL; he likely never though that he would see her again. He'd never know if she was even alive. So perhaps part of his emotional reaction to seeing Carol was shock/relief/happiness. None of those (except minor elements of relief and happiness) would have applied to seeing Beth again.

 

Since they bury the ones they love, where will they bury Beth? Will they go back to the prison and bury her and Hershel? Will they go back to the farm? Or will they burn her in Atlanta?

 

I also think that there was nothing suggesting "thwarted romance" from the way Daryl was carrying Beth's body. His arms were practically straight. He couldn't have held her body any lower if he'd tried. Seems to me that if he'd just lost the woman he loved or whatever, he'd be cradling her body much closer to his, tucking her head into his neck and holding her close to his body.

Edited December 2, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[AngelaHunter]

He couldn't have held her body any lower if he'd tried.

 

Well, he did say once that she was heavier than she looked and since dead weight feels even heavier, maybe his arms were just giving out.

 

The thing with Rick not carrying Beth out though...no one was expecting Maggie et al to be there, so why wouldn't he have taken her body?

 

I think Daryl probably wanted to do it. But maybe he informed Rick about how damned heavy she was. Or maybe Rick said, "This is all your fault, you and your stupid hostage plan, so you carry her!"

 

But my bigger question is: why didn't they get a sheet from the hospital in order to wrap her body up? It just pissed me off because it seems like they only bothered to carry her out with her bloody ponytail and whatnot so that Maggie - who wasn't even supposed to be there - would see and lose her shit.

 

Agreed!

[Pete Martell]

Oh, I wasn't meaning to imply anything romantic about Daryl/Beth. I was just highlighting the many ways in which TPTB focused on Daryl re: Beth and her death. I do not understand their reunion at all; the utter lack of, well, ANYTHING really, surprised me. It was almost as though TPTB didn't bother scripting anything for them to do since they were in the background of the scene rather than the focus. I was really expecting Beth to hug Daryl once she got to him. For her to not even LOOK IN HIS DIRECTION was a big wtf moment for me.

 

The thing with Rick not carrying Beth out though...no one was expecting Maggie et al to be there, so why wouldn't he have taken her body? But my bigger question is: why didn't they get a sheet from the hospital in order to wrap her body up? It just pissed me off because it seems like they only bothered to carry her out with her bloody ponytail and whatnot so that Maggie - who wasn't even supposed to be there - would see and lose her shit.

 

Beth was really checked out from everything at Grady. She was tense and guarded. To me it came across as her knowing most of what she believed in had died there and would never come back. 

 

I assume they just wanted to get out of there and didn't care about a sheet, but the whole way she was carried out, almost with an angel choir in the background, took me out of the scene somewhat. 

 

Norman did say in an interview that he had a hard time doing the scene because he was trying to carry her in a way that would be mournful, so it was more work for his body.

[NoWillToResist]

 Norman did say in an interview that he had a hard time doing the scene because he was trying to carry her in a way that would be mournful, so it was more work for his body.

 

Interesting choice. In a way, it kind of put her body on display to others because he wasn't holding her close to him. It did kind of scream "look upon this dead beacon of goodness and hope and WAIL!!!!" which, of course, meant it did the opposite for me.

 

 

Well, he did say once that she was heavier than she looked and since dead weight feels even heavier, maybe his arms were just giving out.

 

*must be sensitive and not laugh. Must be sensitive and not laugh*

[RedheadZombie]

I was very puzzled by the lack of reaction between Beth and Daryl seeing each other again. I get that they were at the end of a tense stand-off, but they both bonded during their time after the prison. She literally did not spare a look at him as he reached out his hand to guide her to the 'safety' of the back of the group. And also, that hand out was all he gave her; no hug, no side grip, nothing. Rick did more. WTF?

 

I found Rick's reaction very typical.  Rick viewed her as a child, just like Carl, and he reacted in a paternal matter.  I think the lack of Daryl/Beth reaction was a miss by writing.  Maybe they thought they were showing Daryl's intimacy issues, but we had seen him react strongly to Carol, so ......  I got nothing.  The most obvious is they knew they no longer had to bait the Daryl/Beth shippers.

 

I just don't understand why Beth's death has to be all about Daryl's manpain. Maggie lost her sister, only ten days or so after the death of their father. Glenn lost a sister-in-law, and has to figure out how to support his wife. Rick had a fatherly dynamic with Beth. 

 

Daryl's in my top five, so I do love the character.  But good Lord am I tired of Daryl's tortured man pain.  I feel like it's all Daryl, all the time.  And sometimes, it doesn't even ring true to the character.  The baby formula run - you know I've seen this scene recounted dozens of times, and half the time Maggie's part is forgotten.  So here's a man that has major intimacy issues, is protective of children but doesn't particularly like and give attention to those around him (had he even once talked to or smiled at Sophia while she was alive?), but he comes riding on his white steed, magically mixes up a bottle, then snatches Judith from the arms of her BROTHER!  Perhaps Carl wanted to feed his sister.  Perhaps Maggie, who would have had experience with baby Beth, would have been more likely to do it.  Or maybe former mother Carol.  Nope - Daryl.  They could not have telegraphed more clearly his path to Daryl Sue status.

 

They have completely marginalized Maggie and any grief she felt for Beth's missing state.  Only Daryl's manpain was ever shown.  I'm sure the rest of the season will be Daryl's guilt (he co-approved the plan) and it's all about his noble man-tears. They even had him woefully mourning Andrea at her death when he couldn't stand her.  I realize it's fan baiting, but it's over-the-top.  I really was shocked when Tyreese turned out to save all three of the little girls.  And I loved how he did it bug-eyed and terrified ..... which is realistic!  Daryl would have had all three girls strapped to his torso while he calmly dispatched dozen of walkers.  I just want him to make some obvious mistakes and miss-steps, they certainly do that with Rick.  For instance, Daryl backed up Tyreese's plan and Rick backed down and accepted it, yet I'm only seeing Tyreese blamed for the supposed disaster.

[Lyndy]

For instance, Daryl backed up Tyreese's plan and Rick backed down and accepted it, yet I'm only seeing Tyreese blamed for the supposed disaster.

I still don't think anything was wrong with that plan. The possibility of disaster if they had gone with Rick's plan was pretty much equal. I mean, the only reason it didn't work was a) Dawn was a self-important bitch and b) Beth about had it up to here with her. But for that, it was working. I mean, Dawn didn't even mean to shoot her. I think Daryl's position as 2nd in command is pretty unshakeable, for good or bad. I'm actually more interested in how he's going to interact with Abraham. For some reason, I don't see them seeing eye to eye. I don't actually know why I think that.

[GreyBunny]

And it wasn't a disaster - Tyreese's plan worked. It wasn't until Beth stepped in and did something stupid that things went sideways and then only Beth and Dawn died.  Beth's death was Beth's fault.  She shouldn't have attacked someone wearing a thick vest and holding a loaded gun with a pair of kiddie scissors, especially if she wasn't aiming for the eyeball.

 

I love Daryl, he's one of my favorites, but I'm also sick of his manpain.  I thought his problems were laid out well enough during seasons 1 and 2.  His father sucks, his brother sucks, his mother was gone.  He knocked around and followed Merle because he didn't know what else to do.  Other than gaining acceptance by the group, which he did in season 3 in spades and Rick adopting him as his brother, there really wasn't more to his background or his "personal journey" related to his childhood that needed exploring.  He grabbed that self-help book.  That's nice.   Now read it off-camera. 

 

The producers have said they were going to get to Maggie, but I'm annoyed that Maggie and Glenn's worry about their sister/in-law were sacrificed on the altar of Daryl's angst. 

Edited December 2, 2014 by GreyBunny

[RedheadZombie]

 I'm actually more interested in how he's going to interact with Abraham. For some reason, I don't see them seeing eye to eye. I don't actually know why I think that.

 

Very interesting, I haven't thought of that yet.  Daryl's used to following alpha-males.  With Merle it was family loyalty and probably the result of being smacked around, with Rick it's respect and loyalty.  I don't recall much about his time with Shane, but Daryl often avoided people during the farm period.  Abraham has been greatly humbled, and he may lose some of his bluster.  I'm wondering how Daryl and the others will react to Morgan.  I don't get the impression that Morgan is going to follow anyone's orders, even Rick's.

 

I'm drawing a blank, can anyone remind me how Daryl relayed Merle's death to the group?

[mandolin]

 

 

I'm drawing a blank, can anyone remind me how Daryl relayed Merle's death to the group?

Offscreen. We just saw him say to Carol much later that Merle hadn't ever done anything like that his whole life. Carol responds that Merle gave them a chance.

[Pestilentia]

When Beth was handed over to Rick's group and Daryl led her away I thought I kind of sort of saw him begin to lean down to her just as the camera cut away. I've wanked it in my head to mean that he was glad to see her and that they hugged it out and all.

 

You know, in a situation like that where they were all standing opposite one another wouldn't at least one or two have maybe waved to someone on the other side or made a "Phew!" face or something to acknowledge seeing someone you have missed?

It was all so clinical.

 

I do get what everyone is saying but for myself if I never see the words "Daryl" and "man pain" used together ever again it would suit me fine.

[NoWillToResist]

When Beth was handed over to Rick's group and Daryl led her away I thought I kind of sort of saw him begin to lean down to her just as the camera cut away. I've wanked it in my head to mean that he was glad to see her and that they hugged it out and all.

 

I have to confess that I specifically re-watched that part of the episode because I was very interested in seeing how TPTB would handle the Beth/Daryl reunion. I had a suspicion that Beth would die, since Maggie finally had a conversation about her and was told that she was alive, and I wanted to see how much TPTB would ramp up the "Bethyl" drama in order to maximize the impact of Beth's potentially imminent death.

 

Imagine my surprise that there was basically nothing from either side. I wasn't sure what we'd get from Daryl since he usually isn't demonstrative, but Beth was the one who initiated hand holding and a hug after the prison, so I really thought that at least SHE would pay attention to him, hug him in relief...something. But she literally looked straight ahead as she approached her group (Daryl was off to her right), and as he reached his hand out to place it on her shoulder to guide her towards their group, she looked back over her LEFT shoulder to the action behind her. She did not even look at him!  To follow that up with killing her off just seems a smack in the face of the fans of Beth/Daryl.

 

Hell, as much as I'd have hated Carol being the one who died, at least I would have had them spend a fair amount of time together this season and got that beautiful reunion hug. The "Bethyl" fans (regardless of how you saw their dynamic) got shafted. Big time. And I truly feel bad for them.

[GreyBunny]

I don't feel bad for the Bethyl fans because there was no Bethyl.  The show had no responsibility to cater to something that wasn't even there.  If they felt shafted, it wasn't Gimple or Kirkman or any of the writers, directors, or producers who shafted them.

 

She saved her big epic hug for Noah.

Edited December 2, 2014 by GreyBunny

[NoWillToResist]

I don't feel bad for the Bethyl fans because there was no Bethyl.  The show had no responsibility to cater to something that wasn't even there.  If they felt shafted, it wasn't Gimple or Kirkman or any of the writers, directors, or producers who shafted them.

 

She saved her big epic hug for Noah.

 

I used "Bethyl" simply to refer to Beth and Daryl, not specifically as an OTP; my apologies if that was unclear. I did not see a romantic connection with them but they definitely bonded after the prison. Whether it was friendship or a big bro/little sis vibe, I would expect SOME type of reaction between these two upon seeing each other again. The absence of ANY reaction from EITHER of them was glaring to me.

[Ocean Chick]

Yeah, "Bethyl" was never a thing to TWD.  It only existed in fans' minds.  That is, "Bethyl" as a romantic thing.  Were they family?  Of course they were.  And much closer family than before the fall of the prison, when they'd only had 1 or two conversations together.  But still only brother/sister or uncle/niece.  TWD didn't owe the Bethylers a thing.

 

The people that shafted them were the ones posting conspiracy theories about black limos, hiding EK from the public, secret scenes shot in every location except for Georgia, and promises of Bethyl becoming canon, getting their hopes up.

[NoWillToResist]

Yeah, "Bethyl" was never a thing to TWD.  It only existed in fans' minds.  That is, "Bethyl" as a romantic thing.  Were they family?  Of course they were.  And much closer family than before the fall of the prison, when they'd only had 1 or two conversations together.  But still only brother/sister or uncle/niece.  TWD didn't owe the Bethylers a thing.

 

The people that shafted them were the ones posting conspiracy theories about black limos, hiding EK from the public, secret scenes shot in every location except for Georgia, and promises of Bethyl becoming canon, getting their hopes up.

 

Oh I get that shippers often make things bad for themselves (see: the online petitions to bring Beth back!!??!). But, ignoring all of that, did the non-existent reaction of Beth or Daryl at seeing each other again, not strike anyone as strange? I almost feel like it was done intentionally as an FU to people who were clamoring for them to get romantic. And I think that's a shame. There was no need to make their reunion so clinically detached. They were at least friends and he busted his ass to rescue her.

[mightysparrow]

I agree that Bethyl is a fan creation just like Caryl is and I loathe them both but I was a bit surprised that Beth didn't even acknowledge Daryl.  I thought the little interaction between Rick and Beth was so sweet and completely in character.  I have to think that tptb insisted that Beth and Daryl don't have any interaction because of fear of an even BIGGER fan reaction.  After all, NR and EK like each other as people and their characters like each other so it's unbelievable that they didn't even say hi.

 

I loved the hug between Beth and Noah and I think THAT'S the real lost opportunity.  In those few seconds, we saw two characters that had come to care for each other under hellish circumstances.  Both had been underestimated and both had shown they were strong.  And Beth would know that Noah had come back for her.  That's a big thing. 

[NoWillToResist]

I agree that Bethyl is a fan creation just like Caryl is and I loathe them both but I was a bit surprised that Beth didn't even acknowledge Daryl.  I thought the little interaction between Rick and Beth was so sweet and completely in character.  I have to think that tptb insisted that Beth and Daryl don't have any interaction because of fear of an even BIGGER fan reaction. 

 

But then why have Daryl be the one to avenge Beth? I personally would have preferred it if Beth had actually killed Dawn with this scissors and then got her head blown off, rather than have her fail at that so that Daryl could make his WAAAAAHHHH face and then kill Dawn.

[mightysparrow]

But then why have Daryl be the one to avenge Beth? I personally would have preferred it if Beth had actually killed Dawn with this scissors and then got her head blown off, rather than have her fail at that so that Daryl could make his WAAAAAHHHH face and then kill Dawn.

And miss an opportunity for MORE DARYL MAN PAIN???? 

 

I also think this might be how they put a bullet in Caryl's head.  Some how or some way, it's going to be made clear that fucking Carol would just remind Daryl of how Beth died and he just.can't.do.it.

[BrokenRemote]

But then why have Daryl be the one to avenge Beth? I personally would have preferred it if Beth had actually killed Dawn with this scissors and then got her head blown off, rather than have her fail at that so that Daryl could make his WAAAAAHHHH face and then kill Dawn.

Here's my theory on why there was no 'reunion' between Daryl and Beth and yet Daryl had to be the one who avenged her: both the character of Daryl and the show runners are more into the idea of Beth than the actual person. The character symbolized something to them (hope, optimism, whatever) but the actual portrayal wasn't working. Just my thoughts.

And yeah, I do think it was also to keep the Beth and Daryl shippers from dissecting every glance and accidental touch for the next 100 years and to put an end to the whole idea. I don't think TPTB thought people were going to read into the episodes last season the way they did, and I think that killing Beth was ultimately to end the madness that seemed to eclipse everything else about the show. They kept her out of most of the season and wrote a whole crazy hospital arc basically to do away with her in the end.

And miss an opportunity for MORE DARYL MAN PAIN????

I also think this might be how they put a bullet in Caryl's head. Some how or some way, it's going to be made clear that fucking Carol would just remind Daryl of how Beth died and he just.can't.do.it.

I don't get how 'fucking Carol', as you so eloquently put it, would remind Daryl of how Beth died. I don't want to see the two of them attached romantically so I have no dog in that fight, but this comment really confused me. Edited December 2, 2014 by BrokenRemote

[mightysparrow]

 

I don't get how 'fucking Carol', as you so eloquently put it, would remind Daryl of how Beth died. I don't want to see the two of them attached romantically so I have no dog in that fight, but this comment really confused me.

 

Awwww, you think I'm eloquent!?!?!

[ghoulina]

Oh I get that shippers often make things bad for themselves (see: the online petitions to bring Beth back!!??!). But, ignoring all of that, did the non-existent reaction of Beth or Daryl at seeing each other again, not strike anyone as strange?

 

Yes, it did. And I'm not a Bethyl shipper. I saw their relationship as nothing more than brother-sister. But they did get pretty close when they were alone together on the road. And Daryl felt horrible about losing her and was going to give his all to get her back, and then it's just like "Oh, heh, it's you again". Moving right along. 

 

I also think this might be how they put a bullet in Caryl's head.  Some how or some way, it's going to be made clear that fucking Carol would just remind Daryl of how Beth died and he just.can't.do.it.

 

I'm really not sure I see the connection here? What does Carol have to do with Beth's death? Do you mean because she was a large part of the rescue mission before the rest of the gang came? I mean, I still don't see how Beth dying would mean Daryl and Carol could never get together. I don't see how SHE would remind him of Beth's death more than anyone else that was in that hallway. I'd think the only person he wouldn't be able to bone because of the nasty memories would be the person who killed her - Dawn.  And that's now a moot point. 

[GreyBunny]

Yeah, "Bethyl" was never a thing to TWD.  It only existed in fans' minds.  That is, "Bethyl" as a romantic thing.  Were they family?  Of course they were.  And much closer family than before the fall of the prison, when they'd only had 1 or two conversations together.  But still only brother/sister or uncle/niece.  TWD didn't owe the Bethylers a thing.

 

The people that shafted them were the ones posting conspiracy theories about black limos, hiding EK from the public, secret scenes shot in every location except for Georgia, and promises of Bethyl becoming canon, getting their hopes up.

 

And they got shafted by EK herself.  

 

She herself kept trolling with the Bethyl romance idea in her tweets and instragrams long after she knew Beth was going to be dead, that Bethyl would never be a thing, and long after the mid-season finale was filmed.  As mentioned in the TTD thread she was hanging all over Norman Reedus so much at SDCC that others in the cast were giving her the stink-eye and at one point Norman told her to get her hands off of him. Yuck.  I'm sure his girlfriend loved that.  But at least it's over.

 

I don't think TPTB thought people were going to read into the episodes last season the way they did, and I think that killing Beth was ultimately to end the madness that seemed to eclipse everything else about the show.

 

Gimple began writing for Beth's death over a year ago, during season 4.  I don't think fan reaction was a consideration in this case, the whole Bethyl thing was a tempest in a teapot, just one small section of fans that wasn't important to cater to or alter their story about either way.  An innocent kid gone too soon in the ZA.  That's the story.  That's the tragedy that's going to affect the survivors.  That's what Gimple had been planning all along.

 

As for the bullet in the head, I think Gimple said if Daryl hadn't done it, Rick would have.  Daryl just got there first.

 

did the non-existent reaction of Beth or Daryl at seeing each other again, not strike anyone as strange? I almost feel like it was done intentionally as an FU to people who were clamoring for them to get romantic.

 

I think they had to keep everyone's reunions brief and non-huggy because they had to keep their guard up.  There were five cops with guns pointed at them in a narrow hallway and they didn't know if the people behind them were armed or what they would do, or if someone might sneak up behind them.  Everyone could hug later.

 

I loved the hug between Beth and Noah and I think THAT'S the real lost opportunity.  In those few seconds, we saw two characters that had come to care for each other under hellish circumstances.  Both had been underestimated and both had shown they were strong.  And Beth would know that Noah had come back for her.  That's a big thing.

 

I so agree.  Had Beth lived I would have shipped her with Noah.  Noah/TJW was the only one for both the actress and the character who would have been age appropriate, and they were so damn cute together.

Edited December 3, 2014 by GreyBunny

[AngelaHunter]

at one point Norman told her to get her hands off of him.

 

Did he really say that? Too stinking funny, but really, kind of nervy coming from someone who goes around licking peoples' faces.

[Iguessnot]

I tried to watch some of the ComicCon footage online, but that was a 45 minute panel. Can someone pinpoint the approximate time these altercations took place?

[NoWillToResist]

And they got shafted by EK herself.  

 

She herself kept trolling with the Bethyl romance idea in her tweets and instragrams long after she knew Beth was going to be dead, that Bethyl would never be a thing, and long after the mid-season finale was filmed.

 

Interesting. In none of the fallout have I seen any Beth/Bethyl fans mention that. They have all be very united in wanting to show their support for EK...

[Ocean Chick]

Well, some of it might not have been EK trolling, but her fans misinterpreting things, to be fair to EK.  Like her tweet of her butt clad in black shorts with hot pink writing on them that said "<3 Daryl".  Which could be just EK saying she loves the character of Daryl.  But most of the Beth fans I saw talking about it took it to mean that Beth loved Daryl.  Which then made them think that Bethyl was going canon.

 

But yeah, EK does not have clean hands when it comes to trolling Bethyl.

 

I think most of her fans have convinced themselves that TPTB told EK that Bethyl was going to be a "thing", but then they changed their minds for some reason all of a sudden and wrote her out then and there.  Which would be upsetting if it were true.  But I'm sure it wasn't.

[kikismom]

I welcome any theories on WTF this is about:

 

[editorgrrl]

According to Wikipedia, Snow White is 12 years old.

Eugene is Dopey. Beth was Happy. Tyreese is Bashful. Hershel was Doc. Abraham is Grumpy. Karen & David were Sneezy & Sleepy.

[kikismom]

According to Wikipedia, Snow White is 12 years old.

Eugene is Dopey. Beth was Happy. Tyreese is Bashful. Hershel was Doc. Abraham is Grumpy. Karen & David were Sneezy & Sleepy.

 

I recently had to watch Disney's Beauty and the Beast about 5 times (don't ask) and ---maybe it's just me---but I think Kirkman stole a little from that.

Care to take a guess at the TWD storylines and characters that seemed to be awfully similar?

 

Or maybe I'm just so warped that everything and everybody slots into my head for where it fits with TWD.

Edited December 17, 2014 by kikismom

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I recently had to watch Disney's Beauty and the Beast about 5 times (don't ask) and ---maybe it's just me---but I think Kirkman stole a little from that.

 

Someone made a video about that:

 

[kikismom]

WOW! I had not seen that video, but that's it! I kept thinking 'why is this so familiar? Even the sequence of events--I swear I just saw this somewhere!"

Kirkman once said that he got inspiration from something for his comic, but he wouldn't say what. (Then he giggled that creepy cellar-dweller giggle of his.)

 

Should probably check out the plots for the whole Disney animated collection; wouldn't surprise me if we found more.

Thanks for posting that; it's like the Wizard of Oz thing and Toy Story...a lot of viewers are noticing a trend here!

[AngelaHunter]

Poor Daryl, being put in the role of a beast.(insert Sad Trombone) When I think about it - which I never have - Disney would be a good inspiration for TWD. All the classic animated stories are quite dark and violent.

[Nashville]

Kirkman once said that he got inspiration from something for his comic, but he wouldn't say what. (Then he giggled that creepy cellar-dweller giggle of his.)

 

Considering it's Kirkman, I was expecting something more along the lines of Days Of Our Lives.

[kikismom]

 When I think about it - which I never have - Disney would be a good inspiration for TWD. All the classic animated stories are quite dark and violent.

A study in the news today revealed that children's animated films have 2.5 times more death and violence than adults movies.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-12-17/animated-films-for-children-have-more-death-and-destruction-than-films-for-adults

[RedheadZombie]

Norman did an AMA on Reddit yesterday.   I found two of his answers very interesting.

 

Q: What is your personal favorite episode of The Walking Dead, and why? :)
A: oh man i like a bunch of them . i really think the episode with chad and melissa was super well written and acted and directed and was awesome. [The Grove]

 

Q: Was there ever a chance of a romance between you and Beth working out?
A: there was definitely a taste of it in the air

 

[kikismom]

There was a taste of something in the air; then they realized it was coming from her toothbrush.

So they killed her.

[mightysparrow]

There was a taste of something in the air; then they realized it was coming from her toothbrush.

So they killed her.

 

Reedus is so full of shit.  He says this because he knows that wee Bethie is dead as dead can be.  So he throws a bone to the Bethylers, feeds their delusion and he's their hero.

 

I think a lot of this shipping bullshit that's gone down over the years is because Reedus doesn't want to be the bad guy to anyone.  He loves all the attention from housewives all over the world and doesn't want to do anything to fuck that up.   The worst thing that could happen to his career is if Daryl had to wear sleeves all the time. If the writers had any sense, they'd tell him to shut up about Daryl's romances, but if he did that, half of his q&a's would disappear.  And the truth is that the showrunners love all that 'if Daryl dies we riot' crap. It won't get them an Emmy but it will get them millions of hits online.

[Ocean Chick]

Truly, I think that no matter what NR or EK or RK or anyone else said at this minute, the hard core Bethylers would STILL believe that Beth is the "one and only" for Daryl.  They're already imagining the devastated Daryl that we'll see in 5B, and how he might try to commit suicide because "the light at the end of his tunnel" is gone.

 

That light they're talking about?  It's the headlight of the oncoming train that ran Bethyl off the track of existence.

 

I expect Daryl to feel bad about losing Beth in the first place, but I don't expect him to mourn any more than the rest of the group that knew Beth.  He'll be okay.

[GreyBunny]

The faster Daryl gets a girlfriend, the happier I'll be.  It'll sink the BETH IS HIS ONE TWOO WUV idea fast, or at least make steam come out of the ears of those housewives and stunted teenagers.