S01.E07: Stranded

[legaleagle53]

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

If nothing else, this is the most I liked Wyatt, since he made me laugh out loud twice: first, for his "Unless one of you can barf out a spoon!", and then his "No wonder they lost!", after he realized how much the French's uniform sticks out in the woods (although, I think the winner/loser on that front will be the Redcoats, come Revolutionary War time.) 

It was a knife he needed, not a spoon.  And you're right about the Redcoats losing the Revolutionary War, of course, with, ironically, help from the French (who saw joining the revolutionaries as an irresistible opportunity for payback against the British for defeating them in the French and Indian War) and -- believe it or not -- Nonhelema herself.  According to Wikipedia, she was allied with the revolutionaries and frequently warned them of impending attacks.  In 1785, Congress awarded her a pension of daily rations and an annual allotment of blankets and clothing for her assistance during the Revolutionary War (although she had actually requested a 1,000-acre grant in Ohio).

Edited November 24, 2016 by legaleagle53

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

That said, in 2016, people tend to get on an informal basis a lot sooner than used to be the case, especially among young people.  So nowadays, it probably would be "Veux-tu coucher avec moi ce soir?"

Depending on how crude/direct you want to be, you could also just cut to the chase: "Baise-moi!" ("Fuck me!")

12 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

To paraphrase Rufus, 1754 might be an awesome time to visit, but I wouldn't want to live then no matter where I was.

As Rufus pointed out earlier, no time in history is really all that great for him. Certain times give him a small advantage, but he's always the most in danger.

[legaleagle53]

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Depending on how crude/direct you want to be, you could also just cut to the chase: "Baise-moi!" ("Fuck me!")

Huh.  That's a new one.  I only know that as "Kiss me!"  Once again, French 1, 2, and 3 failed to give me a proper education. Thanks for nothing, Mesdames Peterson, Goode, Seethaler, and Johnson!  :-P

Edited November 24, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Bort]

On 11/23/2016 at 1:46 PM, ALenore said:

I also thought at first they would have been vaccinated, then realized that had been stopped (didn't know it was in 1972).  But shouldn't the bigwigs of the project thought to vaccinate them all for smallpox, as well as malaria, various kinds of flu, both so the time travelers themselves don't come down with a disease, and to they don't inadvertently spread it to everyone in the present? 

As a special forces guy from the military who's gone to countries that still have smallpox, I guarantee that Wyatt has been vaccinated for it. Lucy and Rufus, no, but it would probably be a good idea, and if I were them, I'd be asking for it.

[dubbel zout]

4 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

As a special forces guy from the military who's gone to countries that still have smallpox, I guarantee that Wyatt has been vaccinated for it.

Smallpox and every other virus known to man. Those guys get vaccines for everything.

[wmdekooning]

On 11/22/2016 at 9:23 AM, Netfoot said:

Best part of the show was when the future-travelers scattered ACP brass all through the surrounding shrubbery, for the archaeologists of the future to discover!

Is it wrong that I laugh every time Wyatt shoots someone with his automatic pistol in the past?

[bros402]

2 hours ago, wmdekooning said:

Is it wrong that I laugh every time Wyatt shoots someone with his automatic pistol in the past?

Nah. I'm always curious why he doesn't have something to catch the shells

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Best episode (to date), and for one simple reason... no over-the-top side dramas about the fiance who shouldn't be/Mom who isn't deathly ill but all confused as hell because 'her Lucy' isn't being herself/sister erased from existence, or the sitting around and staring at all the non-usable data around Logan's wife's death, or the Mason&Rufus angst-session over working for Rittenhouse.

I was pleasantly surprised to see the episode start out already in-mission and even more pleasantly surprised to see the episode end on a team-bonding moment over drinks.  Everybody (main 3) ended on a a bit of a high note, bit more so for Rufus.  I approve of this approach, Show.  Please consider doing it more.

Speaking of the mission, why not just blow up the Lifeboat if you're Flynn, or at least wreck it beyond repair, from the very beginning?  Would solve all his problems of them always getting in his way.  Show shouldn't have introduced this plot point because its going to make Flynn look so incredibly beyond stupid for not doing it, effectively, at any future point from now on.

Hoping with the ending, we've seen the end of the current Logan-can't-trust-anyone pity party.  Especially when I'd bet that later on, it will come around where he's 'forced' to hide stuff from the other two, and then he'll be the untrustworthy one, bringing it full circle.  Sorry for the pessimistic outlook on that, but I've seen enough scripted TV to feel a bit secure in predicting that.  And let's not forget that Kripke is an exec producer/showrunner, so the "one area(s) keeping secrets and the other being mad about it, but turn around and do the same thing" trope is not exactly foreign territory for him.

 

Its a bit early to be getting into the shipping and predicting of endgame relationships, but as long as it isn't cancelled before at least a couple of full seasons have been played out, I think its already been pre-determined that it'll end up Lucy/Wyatt - if not an actual relationship, I could see them 'making a mistake' in sleeping together as a result of seeking shared comfort that went too far after a mission or a strong personal grief problem for one of them (most likely through a cliched trope like too much drinking leads to sex).  It could somehow ultimately end up Lucy/Flynn, but I really doubt it, at least at this very early point in the storyline.

[henripootel]

9 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Speaking of the mission, why not just blow up the Lifeboat if you're Flynn, or at least wreck it beyond repair, from the very beginning? 

Why not just steal it?  It's not like they left it locked up, not that I've seen.  Leaving the Time Team alive in the past seems silly, mostly because they did exactly what I thought they'd do - send a message to the future.  Heck, they should have sent a bunch of them, carved into rocks and whatnot.

And it's not like time-travel central was in any sort of actual hurry - they had all the time in the world to build another time machine and send it back (I know, this capsule is the rescue capsule).  Take a while to train a new Rufus but you have time - the guys are stranded in the past, all the stuff happened to them two centuries ago.

I know, I know - the plan that actually got them home worked, but I'm saying it was a shitty plan from both sides.  For the Time Team, Rufus had no way of telling home base exactly when they'd be needing a beacon to guide them in.  If they'd have come in too soon, Jiya wouldn't have figured it out in time to guide them in, too late (say a year or two later) and Jiya might well have given up hope and turned the beacon off.  Amazing how well everything worked given how little coordination they did.

But then again, Flynn's plan didn't make much sense anyway.   Why just strand the Team in the past, why not kill them outright?  Stranding them in 1754 is pretty much a death sentence anyway - why not finish the job?  He left open the door that they could call out for help, which they did.  Heck, just shooting Rufus would have effectively stranded them. 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, henripootel said:

Why not just steal it?  It's not like they left it locked up, not that I've seen.  

Who's going to pilot both it and the mothership back?  Anthony's the only trained pilot Flynn's got, just as Rufus is the only trained pilot our team has.

Which does bring up an interesting question.  Why hasn't Rufus taught either Wyatt or Lucy at least the fundamentals of how to fly the timeship in case he can't physically do it himself?  If he's only physically incapacitated, he can talk them through it if necessary -- surely they've seen "Airport '75"?  And since they know now how to send a message to 2016 telling the crew to stand by with the backup navigation system, all Wyatt and Lucy really need to know is how to start the machine on its way and how to time it so that the crew in 2016 can do the rest.

And Flynn doesn't really want to kill Lucy, since he still needs her to write the journal.  He expected that the team would eventually figure out how to repair their timeship and get back to 2016 (since Anthony no doubt knows all about the protocol and would have told Flynn about it).  He simply needed to slow them down long enough that he could take off for whatever his next target was and do what he intended to do there before the team got back to 2016.

[henripootel]

59 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Who's going to pilot both it and the mothership back?  Anthony's the only trained pilot Flynn's got, just as Rufus is the only trained pilot our team has.

As usual, the answer can be found in 'time machine'.   Even if we assume that Max Headroom can't just say 'Okay, I'm gonna get out and you just press this button - see you in 2016', why can't he just train someone else to pilot the machine?  'Because it takes a long time'?  Time machine!  Send Max back to some point with his trainee, pick him up a minute (and 2 years) later and voila, assistant pilot.  

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

And Flynn doesn't really want to kill Lucy, since he still needs her to write the journal.

Nope.  He has the journal in his possession, it's not gonna just disappear if Lucy dies 'today'.  Heck, if it's just about the journal, the smart thing for Flynn to do is to kill Lucy as soon as possible.  He would then be in possession of the only version of the journal that will ever be, and even Lucy won't know what's in it.  

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Nope.  He has the journal in his possession, it's not gonna just disappear if Lucy dies 'today'.  Heck, if it's just about the journal, the smart thing for Flynn to do is to kill Lucy as soon as possible.  He would then be in possession of the only version of the journal that will ever be, and even Lucy won't know what's in it.  

Answering this in the Paradoxes thread.

[Terrafamilia]

On 11/22/2016 at 0:25 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I've never really been that into his body- it's really those eyes that are the real show-stopper. But he does have a great boy-next-door look. Which is why he's really hard to buy as a hardened soldier, LOL.

As befits someone who is also a voice actor he has a rather easy to listen to voice. I got a chuckle out his line the other week about Flynn not being able to do the Jedi mind trick on him.

[Shanna Marie]

Someone I talked to over Thanksgiving who has first-hand knowledge of Delta Force said Wyatt isn't actually that unbelievable. Those guys sneak into things and blend in, so you don't want the big bruisers who stand out in a crowd and look like they might be there to cause trouble. Little and tough is more likely because they can work in tight spaces. Mind you, this was just an evaluation based on the commercials and a description, not on Wyatt's actual actions, but apparently it's not outrageous casting. His quibble was with the stubble, which is very non-military. Maybe after several days running around in the woods during the French and Indian Wars, but not when he's reporting for duty, even if his duty is out of uniform.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

As befits someone who is also a voice actor he has a rather easy to listen to voice. I got a chuckle out his line the other week about Flynn not being able to do the Jedi mind trick on him.

Have you ever watched any of the Periscope sessions he sometimes does on Monday nights after the show, when he takes fan questions?  He's very soft-spoken, but his diction is very clear and easy to understand.  It's actually very soothing to listen to him.  And while his wife doesn't appear on camera, she helps out by reading the questions to him so he can respond to them.

[CooperTV]

On 25.11.2016 at 1:25 PM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

It could somehow ultimately end up Lucy/Flynn, but I really doubt it, at least at this very early point in the storyline.

 

Since Flynn is not Lucy's father, he's probably her son/grandchild, and she possibly traveled in the past and stayed there, this writing the journal. I hope they're not gonna go with that amount of melodrama, though.

[Clanstarling]

On 11/21/2016 at 11:29 PM, Dowel Jones said:

The name checking needs to stop.  Dr. Flynn, medicine woman? Yawn.  Flux Capacitor?  Double yawn.

Agreed with the Dr. Flynn (doubly stupid because - what if they were expected to actually heal someone?). As for the flux capacitor, I'll take it. It time travel pop culture.

On 11/22/2016 at 10:30 AM, AV8n said:

My guess would be Arabic, Pashto and Urdu, since he'd have probably saw a lot of action in the Middle East and Afghanistan prior to joining the Time Travel Club.

French is also a frequently spoken language in the Middle East - my daughter who translates French was urged to become a military translator for that reason. So it wouldn't be out of the question that he'd have some French along with those. OTOH, he wasn't a translator, so I'd bet your suggestions are right on.

On 11/22/2016 at 11:39 AM, green said:

Also the fact that the original Rittenhouse was alive in 1754 albeit only 22 years old would have been fun to explore.

Did I miss something? The only 22 year old they mentioned was George Washington - was he supposed to be the original Rittenhouse?

On 11/22/2016 at 9:20 PM, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if I'm the only one watching who muttered to herself after hearing them fearfully dreading smallpox: "Aren't they vaccinated?!" before realizing that only older folks like me have been vaccinated for smallpox.

Nope. Not just you. I was all "if you're going to go back to the past regularly, you need a full spectrum of vaccinations so you don't catch and/or bring that crap back. Military brat here - been vaccinated so often I actually rate the technique. We got vaccinated for all sorts of weird things when we went abroad - but when we were stationed in Turkey, only my father had to get the Plague vaccine (this was a long time ago - I'm sure treatment and prevention is far different these days). Anyway, the military decided we dependents were expendable, I guess.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, CooperTV said:

...she possibly traveled in the past and stayed there, this writing the journal.

Have we figured out what's in the journal?  Something Flynn couldn't find in a regular history book?  Does Daisy Deadpan write down specific targets that bring about the changes that Flynn wants?  Why does she want to achieve the same goals as Flynn?  How does she know what specifically has what desired future effect?

Since Wyatt & Rufus are trying to stop Flynn, wouldn't the easiest way be to simply drop Daisy in her tracks?  Before she writes up the journal and hands it to Flynn?  Leave her in the present, zip back to when she was six, and shoot her on the way home from Primary school?

[CooperTV]

38 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Have we figured out what's in the journal?  Something Flynn couldn't find in a regular history book?  Does Daisy Deadpan write down specific targets that bring about the changes that Flynn wants?

I assumed Future!Lucy was writing down the historical events from the Universe Zero (where she had started) and her own observations on people around her to remember the "real" chain of events compared to the Universe One. Plus there's things Flynn is deliberately withholds for twist plot reasons.

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Agreed with the Dr. Flynn (doubly stupid because - what if they were expected to actually heal someone?).

Dr. Queen, Medicine Woman. And yeah, Lucy would likely order some reasonable treatment for that time period, as she actually knows about aseptic and antiseptic technics. Maybe it'd be even better than mercury clyster and bloodletting 18th century doctor was about to treat poor Wyatt!

Edited November 26, 2016 by CooperTV

[kili]

Quote

As a special forces guy from the military who's gone to countries that still have smallpox, I guarantee that Wyatt has been vaccinated for it

Smallpox was eradicated from the world in 1979. That's why kids don't get vaccinated against it (so no more smallpox vaccine scars on arms). I don't know if they still vaccinate special forces against it (small pox is contained in some labs and somebody might use it as a biological weapon), but it isn't because they might get sent to a country that still has it.

The time travelling team should certainly be given the vaccine though so they don't bring it back (or die from it themselves).

I kind of like some of the attention to detail. The French guy was wearing a necklace that seemed out of place with his uniform - then we saw the chief wearing one. Now we know why the French guy was wearing it and why the locals don't like them.

[Raja]

40 minutes ago, kili said:

Smallpox was eradicated from the world in 1979. That's why kids don't get vaccinated against it (so no more smallpox vaccine scars on arms). I don't know if they still vaccinate special forces against it (small pox is contained in some labs and somebody might use it as a biological weapon), but it isn't because they might get sent to a country that still has it.

The time travelling team should certainly be given the vaccine though so they don't bring it back (or die from it themselves).

I kind of like some of the attention to detail. The French guy was wearing a necklace that seemed out of place with his uniform - then we saw the chief wearing one. Now we know why the French guy was wearing it and why the locals don't like them

The necklace is part of the officers uniform of the period. The last vestiges of the knight in shinning armor 

[henripootel]

3 minutes ago, Raja said:

The necklace is part of the officers uniform of the period. The last vestiges of the knight in shinning armor 

I believe you're referring to a gorget.  They're making a comeback, by the way.  It's still a vulnerable area and advances in body armor have again made them practical.  

[Clanstarling]

52 minutes ago, kili said:

I don't know if they still vaccinate special forces against it (small pox is contained in some labs and somebody might use it as a biological weapon)

I imagine they do get vaccinated for this very reason. Chemical warfare is a fact, and biological warfare is a serious worry.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Clanstarling

[dubbel zout]

16 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Wyatt isn't actually that unbelievable [as a member of Delta Force].

These days the Navy SEALs especially want swimmers and wrestlers, athletes that tend to the leaner/sleeker side who have strength and flexibility.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, Netfoot said:

 Rufus are trying to stop Flynn, wouldn't the easiest way be to simply drop Daisy in her tracks?  Before she writes up the journal and hands it to Flynn?  Leave her in the present, zip back to when she was six, and shoot her on the way home from Primary school?

Unless they were born after 1989 (when she would have been six), that's a no-go.  No going back to a time you already exist in, remember?  I seriously doubt either Wyatt or Rufus was born in 1990 or later.  They all look to be about the same age (33 in Lucy's case).

Besides, even if that were possible, that creates a variation of the Grandfather Paradox.  If Wyatt could go back and kill Lucy in the past to prevent her from writing the journal, there's no reason for him ever to go back to the past to kill her,  so he never goes back to kill her in the first place, and the journal gets written anyway.

Edited November 26, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Cranberry]

Killing Lucy would accomplish nothing. The journal already exists and Flynn already has it. We know from her still-existing picture of her sister that certain items (possibly just ones that travel with the time travelers) don't disappear even if the person they depict (or the person who made/wrote them) never existed.

This is why I didn't really get her angst at the end of this episode. It doesn't matter whether or not she writes the journal in the future. It already exists and Flynn's already been using it. Choosing not to write it again won't make that first one poof out of existence. The new one could end up different now, I suppose... although that's hard to say without knowing when she wrote the first one.

[henripootel]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

These days the Navy SEALs especially want swimmers and wrestlers, athletes that tend to the leaner/sleeker side who have strength and flexibility.

I know a couple of ex-SEALs, and most of them come across as just ... guys.  Not especially athletic (looking anyway), not in an obvious way, more like guys who played football in high school but not necessarily college.  Wyatt as a SEAL doesn't seem wildly unlikely, I mean we're not talking Keanu Reeves in Point Break (who was supposed to be an ex-college quarterback. Uh, no).

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

The new one could end up different now, I suppose... although that's hard to say without knowing when she wrote the first one.

Might be interesting if the journal says things like 'Hey Past Lucy, this is Future Lucy.  Bad as Flynn is, Rittenhouse is worse.  You should be helping him.'  

Or 'The history you remember was actually shaped by Rittenhouse - Flynn is trying to put history back the way it originally was'.  That might be interesting - who's to say which version of history is better?

Edited November 26, 2016 by henripootel

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

Killing Lucy would accomplish nothing. The journal already exists and Flynn already has it. We know from her still-existing picture of her sister that certain items (possibly just ones that travel with the time travelers) don't disappear even if the person they depict (or the person who made/wrote them) never existed.

But her sister did disappear.  And if a change to the past can eradicate her sister, why can't it eradicate her journal?

[henripootel]

1 minute ago, Netfoot said:

But her sister did disappear.  And if a change to the past can eradicate her sister, why can't it eradicate her journal?

Because the journal is in the possession of a time traveller.  Its existence is no longer dependent on a string of events leading up to its creation, so clipping that string changes nothing.  Had Lucy's sister been with her in the time capsule, I presume she wouldn't have disappeared either, and would have returned to a 2016 where nobody remembers her except for those in the time capsule.  

Heck, this could well happen to any of the Time Team - they could come back from a mission and nobody else remembers them, because the Team did something in the past, it changed things, and they themselves never existed.  Doesn't mean they'd just poof out of existence on the spot, but it would be awkward explaining this to security.  Also suck to come back and find out everything you knew and everyone you loved never existed, but that's a real risk.

[Cranberry]

Yeah, exactly. The sister vanished as if she never existed, but the photo of her did not (probably because it was with Lucy). It's a photo of a person who doesn't exist and never existed, which should be impossible. If that photo didn't disappear when the sister poofed out of existence, why would the journal disappear just because Lucy chooses not to write it (again)?

[Netfoot]

15 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

but the photo of her did not (probably because it was with Lucy). It's a photo of a person who doesn't exist and never existed, which should be impossible. If that photo didn't disappear when the sister poofed out of existence, why would the journal disappear just because Lucy chooses not to write it (again)?

Because the journal, unlike the photo, wouldn't be with the team when they went back and change-historied it out of existence.  

[Cranberry]

But it would be with Flynn, who is also in the past with them as they're changing it.

[dubbel zout]

I think Flynn has had the diary since before the show started, if you know what I mean.

[dr pepper]

Dumb fake Elon Musk. He should use his supertech to build a bunch of 100T harddrives. Every day, he could download Wikipedia and a few other sources, and put the drive in the capsule. That way they keep outlines of each timeline.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, dr pepper said:

Dumb fake Elon Musk. He should use his supertech to build a bunch of 100T harddrives. Every day, he could download Wikipedia and a few other sources, and put the drive in the capsule. That way they keep outlines of each timeline.

That's a really good idea. There's only so much Lucy or the others can remember from the original history, and only so much they can read in between missions. And if they have a laptop in the machine, so they can check the data on the hard drives when trying to keep things the same (like the letter from the Alamo).

They should also keep modern medical supplies.

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

That's a really good idea. There's only so much Lucy or the others can remember from the original history, and only so much they can read in between missions. And if they have a laptop in the machine, so they can check the data on the hard drives when trying to keep things the same (like the letter from the Alamo).

They should also keep modern medical supplies.

How is a laptop going to work when they can only travel to eras before WiFi and the Internet were invented?

[Clanstarling]

8 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

How is a laptop going to work when they can only travel to eras before WiFi and the Internet were invented?

If they download the files to the hard drive, it's there as long as the battery's operative. Links, on the other hand, not so much.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

How is a laptop going to work when they can only travel to eras before WiFi and the Internet were invented?

The original post referred to downloading files to a hard drive. Then no internet is needed, everything is local. That's the whole point, they would have a static copy that wouldn't change when history changed. They just need battery, or an electric source, which should be pretty easy to include.

[Netfoot]

5 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

They just need battery, or an electric source, which should be pretty easy to include.

The Eye is bound to have a cigarette lighter on the dashboard.  Right?

[henripootel]

6 hours ago, dr pepper said:

Dumb fake Elon Musk. He should use his supertech to build a bunch of 100T harddrives. Every day, he could download Wikipedia and a few other sources, and put the drive in the capsule. That way they keep outlines of each timeline.

Well, if they were really clever, they'd set up a self-sustaining base sometime deep in the past, say on Hawaii 1000 years before the boat people arrived.  Then they could send out time ships to 2016 (or whenever) every day, download Wikipedia, and report home.  Anything anybody did up-time would have no effect at all on anyone at Home Base, and it'd be easy enough to spot folks fucking around with time.  Find the time anomalies, figure out who changed things, go back into their past and keep the incursion from ever happening.  And I don't mean killing, necessarily - go offer 20-year-old Flynn a job in pre-contact Hawaii.  Our Motto: time travel solves all problems. 

[bros402]

8 hours ago, dr pepper said:

Dumb fake Elon Musk. He should use his supertech to build a bunch of 100T harddrives. Every day, he could download Wikipedia and a few other sources, and put the drive in the capsule. That way they keep outlines of each timeline.

That's what I have been saying they should do!

Silly Ebony Elon.

You don't need a bunch of 100 TB hard drives. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download]Wikipedia is only 12 GBs compressed, 49 GB uncompressed[/url]. That is for the current version of every article on wikipedia - if you want every revision of every article ever, then you would need gigantic disk drives.

[maryle]

I really love this show.

The strength is the dynamic between all the characters and we saw it  the best in this episode. The tension between them was credible as was the climax when they were captured by the native American. 

Little show without pretending to be what it is not. Hope it have a second season there so much material and potential. This is becoming my new guilty pleasure to watch 

[TobinAlbers]

The only thing that would've made that last group scene better is if Rufus busted open that box of chocodiles and handed one to Wyatt and Lucy to partake of the joy.

Wyatt dropping the reveal of his wife wanting a little boy just makes me think my theory of them tweaking something in the past where he comes back to find himself a widower with a son or daughter is totally going to happen. I think it's gonna be a S1 cliffhanger where if they're cancelled he has some kind of upbeat ending but if we have S2 then he has a whole new set of stakes.

I love the dynamic of the trio, but did miss Flynn. Bet he'd have looked dashing in a set of French breeches.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Besides, even if that were possible, that creates a variation of the Grandfather Paradox.  If Wyatt could go back and kill Lucy in the past to prevent her from writing the journal, there's no reason for him ever to go back to the past to kill her,  so he never goes back to kill her in the first place, and the journal gets written anyway.

Why don't they just kill Flynn? Clearly he's older than any of them, so they could conceivably go to the past and kill him as a child. Or even further back and prevent his conception somehow.

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Why don't they just kill Flynn?

That's what they're trying to do. ;-)

Now that the Rittenhouse stuff is dribbling out, they should all call a timeout and sit down to figure out how they can all work together from here on out. Or at least not be shooting at one another in every era.

[legaleagle53]

33 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Why don't they just kill Flynn? Clearly he's older than any of them, so they could conceivably go to the past and kill him as a child. Or even further back and prevent his conception somehow.

Two words:  Grandfather paradox.

[iMonrey]

I don't know. Wyatt doesn't seem to give a crap if they screw up history so long as he gets his kill. Why not just go back to 1971 and prevent him from ever being conceived? Problem solved. I don't think a lot of energy is being expended trying to prevent paradoxes: I don't think the military, like agent Christopher, really comprehends them or prioritizes them. Her focus is on killing Flynn before he can change American history in irreparable ways. Wiping out Flynn wouldn't be a major concern because it's not as if his very existence is significant to American history. Yet.

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know. Wyatt doesn't seem to give a crap if they screw up history so long as he gets his kill. Why not just go back to 1971 and prevent him from ever being conceived? Problem solved. I don't think a lot of energy is being expended trying to prevent paradoxes: I don't think the military, like agent Christopher, really comprehends them or prioritizes them. Her focus is on killing Flynn before he can change American history in irreparable ways. Wiping out Flynn wouldn't be a major concern because it's not as if his very existence is significant to American history. Yet.

Killing him as a kid would be tough, because you're killing a little kid. Killing his parents before he's born is killing innocent people. So preventing the conception could work, if they know when he was conceived. And by that I mean exactly. They'd have to kidnap one of his parents for a couple weeks to make sure they don't have sex in that one specific time. 

I read a book that didn't have time travel exactly, but had people who were reborn to the same parents in the same year, with knowledge of all their past lives and world events. The only way for them to really die was to stop their conception. It was very hard to do. 

But I think the team on Timeless hasn't really had time to plan any offensive moves like that. It is all about defense to Flynn's moves.

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know. Wyatt doesn't seem to give a crap if they screw up history so long as he gets his kill. Why not just go back to 1971 and prevent him from ever being conceived? Problem solved. I don't think a lot of energy is being expended trying to prevent paradoxes: I don't think the military, like agent Christopher, really comprehends them or prioritizes them. Her focus is on killing Flynn before he can change American history in irreparable ways. Wiping out Flynn wouldn't be a major concern because it's not as if his very existence is significant to American history. Yet.

Taking this to the Paradoxes thread.

[Miss Dee]

I'd been watching this one, hoping it would get better and I'd stop feeling so bored. This is the episode where that happened for me. This was the first time I felt our team was "norming" into a cohesive group and where they all started feeling like real characters.

So far Rufus is my favourite. 

I don't have any issues with Wyatt; what other posters said about Navy Seal and Delta Force members looking unassuming most of the time rings true to me. I do think the show might have lampshaded it a bit in the beginning to help viewers accept it - have Lucy and Rufus go "That small, skinny guy is going to protect our asses on this trip? Seriously?", then give him some really cool stunts to pull off in the first episode.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Miss Dee
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