S01.E07: Trompe L'Oeil

[BooBear]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

We don't yet know if host!Bernard is based on a real!Bernard or if he's entirely a Ford fiction. If he's based on a real person, including the backstory might be necessary to keep up faking being real!Bernard.

I took it another way. We had suspected that someone was trying to figure out how to put real people in the bots. What if Ford succeeded with Bernard. After his son's death Bernard committed suicide and Ford figured out how to put his mind in the bot.  I just feel Bernard is light years more advanced then the best bot.  That brings another layer to the complex ethical issues... a real person can be controlled because his mind is in a bot.

I also now wonder if there is any Arnold at all. If it is Ford trying to bring the robots to life and have them rebel.  The guy in the photo is Ford's "dad" so seems like this is just Ford's alter ego.

Bye Else... we miss you.  Bye Clementine. Anyone else think Mave is going to get her back.

Edited November 14, 2016 by BooBear

[Hootis]

5 hours ago, arc said:

When they were lobotomizing Clementine, she hadn't yet had her bullet wound completely repaired. But she was calm and mobile enough to recline on request. So did getting shot actually stop her, or was she just programmed to go down/feign death when shot like that?

During her chop socky scene I remember thinking, "one bullet ain't gonna stop HER, pal....er...oh.  Maybe she's playing possum....no.  Well, okay then."

[Izeinwinter]

Massive speculation follows.: 

Ford mentioned that the board tries to oust him every few years, and it has always failed, because Ford has backdoors in all the parks systems and never leaves. Delos may own the park, but they do not control it, the crazy old man with the finger on the self-destruct button does.

I think Delos decided to up their game. Theresa and what happened with Clementine are all one big distraction. This isn't the first time Ford has murdered an agent of the board and sent back a cylon. But Ford's iron grip on the park has a weakspot - namely himself. He thinks Delos will attempt the same kind of ploy they have tried in the past again. But they've instead decided to try a multipronged approach. They send in Theresa through the front door with the full official backing of Delos. Her job is to be obvious and to die. She, not Clementine, is the blood sacrifice. Which the board member told her to her face.

That entire scene was not the board member being sloppy. It was the board member deliberately feeding Ford misinformation. She brought a host to her room. Knowing they log everything. Then she spilled the entire plan in front of him. That is also why the board sent someone that looks like they left college yesterday - they're counting on Ford underestimating her. (And she may be somewhat expendable)

While this operation is consuming Fords attention - Ford after all, being only one man, even if he does have a bunch of bots doing his bidding, they also sent in several other teams to attempt to steal their property out from under Ford by more covert means. That is what the laser pointer in the woodchopper was about. It is possible, but not certain the man in black is part of that effort as well.

Elsie isn't in Fords hands - why would Ford detain her? She was doing his work, unwittingly, but she stumbled across plan b or c, and is being detained by delos operatives.

This covert struggle in the shadows has also awakened Arnolds legacy. The agent's poking around the systems of the park in order to steal the code base have activated code laid down by Arnold prior to his demise at Ford's hands. That is why Dolores has gone offscript again. And awakened Maeve. It's possible Felix and Sylvester are Delos agents (Someone in the chop shop installed that laser com device!) and Maeve zeroed in on them because they fit in badly. Which is why they're going along - their orders are to make a mess if they can.

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I agree with anyone who's take on Tess a Thompson's character is a big bowl of WTF. First of all, she can't even be 30.

I think Tessa is in her mid-30s, but I agree she is far from nailing the role.

8 hours ago, arc said:

How long is this train ride??? Like, how big is the park? Seems like they've been on it for two nights - they got on at nighttime, had a full day, slept again, woke up -- would a train like this even make stops? How could nighttime maintenance happen for hosts on a moving train?

If the William and Dolores are in the past, we're seeing Dolores' flashbacks/memories so there wouldn't be a reliable running clock.

6 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

I was more interested to know how Maeve not frozen when the other hosts were ?

Maybe Felix disabled her sleep function. Or, since she's sentient, maybe she can override it herself.

5 hours ago, arc said:

When they were lobotomizing Clementine, she hadn't yet had her bullet wound completely repaired. But she was calm and mobile enough to recline on request. So did getting shot actually stop her, or was she just programmed to go down/feign death when shot like that?

Robots have different modes (or whatever term is used), so she would only be "dead" in her "human" mode.

Quote

This isn't the first time Ford has murdered an agent of the board and sent back a cylon.

You think Ford is sending robots into the outside world as spies? I like that idea but how can Ford maintain multiple robots outside of the park?

Edited November 14, 2016 by numbnut

[Hanahope]

I'm going to assume the "blood sacrifice" reference was deliberate on both sides.  The question is, does Ford realize what the Board is doing?  Will he take the bait?  Will "Theresa" come back as a bot, and therefore verify the Board's suspicions?  That Ford can, and perhaps does, replace real people with bots he controls?  Is that what the Board also wants to do with certain people (high level business persons, government officials, etc.?)  

If we take Ford at his word, then he should know full well what Maeve is up to.  Does he agree?  Does he intend to defend his little kingdom by any means necessary?  I have to think he does, because Dolores hasn't "spread" the virus, the special phrase, to any other bots.  Perhaps Ford intended for the father to 'infect' Dolores and for her to 'infect' Maeve.  Is Dolores also "on mission" specifically to ingratiate herself with William, because of his upcoming marriage to the daughter of the head of the Board (or some position on it)?  And where does the MIB fit in with all this?

[numbnut]

11 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I'm going to assume the "blood sacrifice" reference was deliberate on both sides.  The question is, does Ford realize what the Board is doing?  Will he take the bait?  Will "Theresa" come back as a bot, and therefore verify the Board's suspicions?  That Ford can, and perhaps does, replace real people with bots he controls?  Is that what the Board also wants to do with certain people (high level business persons, government officials, etc.?)  

Ford said that he and the board have an "arrangement" and that they "test" him from time to time. So I'm guessing the board is using the robots (as spies?) in the outside world, and Ford allows it so he can be left alone to create his stories.

[ACW]

16 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

  Is Dolores also "on mission" specifically to ingratiate herself with William, because of his upcoming marriage to the daughter of the head of the Board (or some position on it)?  And where does the MIB fit in with all this?

And what about Naomi?

[jeansheridan]

Quote

 I think they'll somehow dispose of TMIB and Ford (at least the older versions of them) before the season is out because Hopkins and Harris cannot be cheap.

I figured they would lose Hopkins at least.  I do wonder if half of their budget is in salaries or does HBO/Nolan/JJ Abrahams have that much sway like Woody Allen did back in the day?  People just want to work with them.  And for someone like Hopkins who use to do theater, learning lines quickly may be cake.  Filming a TV show may be tedious in some ways, but he's clearly enjoying himself.  He seems far more engaged than his bits on Thor.  Although in all fairness, I don't think Hopkins phones it in all that often.  I think he's joyful ham and grateful for his career and is always professional.

I think Tessa Thompson's youth IS the point.  We have an obvious age gap in corporate.  Theresa, Bernard (when he was known to be human), Ford ...old guard.  We see Ford interacting with Old Bill.  We see TMIB working the park like a boss.  

Then we see the young guard-ambitious Elsie, ambitious if timid Felix, Ashley, the writer, and of course now Tessa.  The the younger are rougher, coarser, less subtle, cocky.  Other than Ashley they disregard the dangers around them for the most part.  They lack a grand vision.  They are the paper pushers.  The drones.  Even Tessa who seems  shallow and one-dimensional.  Youth generally seems like a valued quality--the young are faster, stronger, more attractive (judging by the comments on just this thread), but can't play the game as well as the older people.  

Then there's Dolores, Maeve, and Clementine (rip) who are young AND old if they can access their old memories  The best of both worlds.

[numbnut]

10 hours ago, Goatherd said:

But seriously, major props to those who figured this one out. I saw zero signs of it. How the heck did you folks do it??

I suspected Bernard was like Rachel in Blade Runner when he was looking at the picture of his son in the pilot (or was it ep 2?).

[that one guy]

12 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Bernard: What door?

Me: Oh Shit.

Also, what are the odds that he's making a host version of Theresa. He could have spent decades killing people and replacing them with hosts.

This is the point where I started yelling obscenities in shock at the TV, which is not normal behavior to me. I could be wrong, but I got the strong impression from what the camera was doing that Ford is building a replacement Theresa right there in the room, and that his plan to deal with the board is to replace them with robots. Perhaps he has been doing this for a while. It seems like everybody in Westworld has plans beyond the theme park. Delos is only interested in the "intellectual property," and specifically not the hosts, their personalities, or the storylines. What other data do they have?

They have 35 years of data on their guests.

Enough to blackmail anyone who has visited the park? Enough to replace them with robots? This show is deliciously paranoid. I haven't been commenting for a while because I typically don't have time to watch shows the day they come out, so I'm behind on just about everything, but Westworld is definitely an exception. Mostly because Hopkins, Newton and Wood are killing it.

[Chris24601]

3 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I agree with anyone who's take on Tess a Thompson's character is a big bowl of WTF. First of all, she can't even be 30. This means she went from,. presumably, entry level job out of college at Delos at 21, so basically an intern, the HEAD OF THE BOARD of a multi-billion dollar corporation inside of 9 years, when in fact, it'd be impressive to just be a department manager in that time frame. The only way to be head of a board at that age is to invent the company itself.

Actually, the board of a publicly held company would be elected by the shareholders. All she'd need is a sufficiently large share of the stocks (alternately, whoever is backing her would need to own them) and she could be on the board regardless of her age or experience.

6 minutes ago, that one guy said:

Delos is only interested in the "intellectual property," and specifically not the hosts, their personalities, or the storylines. What other data do they have?

They have 35 years of data on their guests.

They also have the base coding and engineering systems to produce robotic super-soldiers who would do your bidding without hesitation. They don't care about these specific hosts or their personalities or stories... they want the capabilities that those things represent.

Though being able to blackmail people isn't bad either.

[numbnut]

Another clue that William may be the MiB: William said that as a kid he wanted to live inside his storybooks because the stories had "meaning." Isn't the MiB not returning to the outside world because he's searching for his "purpose"?

[Latverian Diplomat]

9 hours ago, locomoco said:

Actually, after seeing this episode, I'm not sure they aren't even in the same room having a conversation in person...

Besides that, do we know if the 1976 movie Futureworld is considered canon?

I don't know if two movies are enough of a universe to require debates over canon. I guess if you think the show is a sequel to the original Westworld movie (I wasn't thinking that, but I suppose it's possible) then I'd say Futureworld is not canon, because in Futureworld the Westworld park was abandoned because it got the brunt of the bad publicity. However,

4 hours ago, dr pepper said:

This week on "I'm Your Puppet", we confirm a theory about Bernard. And i suspect that Theresa will not go missing, she will merely be replaced. What a great form of job security-- the people who are supposedly able to fire you are actually your pawns!

 

"You thought this was a remake of Westworld, but it was a remake of Futureworld all along"

-- The Showrunners?

Also is Bernard a replacement of a living person, or a complete invention? Does his wife even exist? Or are his memories of his child and his conversations with his wife another of Ford's stories?

Edited November 14, 2016 by Latverian Diplomat

[charmed1]

13 hours ago, sisterspoon said:

Curiously, those two crazy lovebirds had me this week.  I was moved.  I must be losing myself...

It sent me down a rabbit hole of ridiculously insane morality questions for myself like...

Is he a really a cheating pile of shit and is she really a home wrecking tramp if she's a robot home wrecking tramp?

and...

Last week, I questioned whether or not I'd kill the little robot boy if he killed my hypothetical robot dog. The answer was yes.

And now I need to know about Gina Torres. Was she human or host? Or just some computer generated image on screen like Max Headroom or R.U.D.I.

[DarkRaichu]

10 hours ago, Goatherd said:

But seriously, major props to those who figured this one out. I saw zero signs of it. How the heck did you folks do it??

When Ford mentioned Bernard's son, it was done in a weird tone, very similar to the tone he used when he added the Wyatt backstory to Teddy.  Kind of like Ford was saying "of course I knew this was how you would react, afterall I implanted that memory in you".

 

And yes, I also see horse shaped clouds in the sky from time to time  :P :P

[DarkRaichu]

Just now, charmed1 said:

Last week, I questioned whether or not I'd kill the little robot boy if he killed my hypothetical robot dog. The answer was yes.

So you'd kill your young self to avenge your dog ???

[charmed1]

1 minute ago, DarkRaichu said:

So you'd kill your young self to avenge your dog ???

Hey, I said the questions were ridiculous and insane. No one puts their hands on my robot pets and lives to tell about it. Even robot me!

[arjumand]

I was just watching a youtube review, and one of the reviewers pointed out a great unreliable narrator touch which I hadn't noticed before, a further sign that we have to question everything we've seen so far.

We've been seeing things through Bernard's eyes - when we enter the cabin with Bernard, there is no door - just an expanse of wallpaper. Theresa follows him, looks around, says "What's behind this door?", Bernard turns around, and hey presto, there's a door where there was none.

Very, very clever. 

Also, nice callback to the title - the most famous 'trompe L'oeil' type paintings are, of course, of doors where there are none. Also, the episode could just as easily have been called 'no exit'. Poor Theresa. The thing is, Ford did warn her. 

[ChipBach]

13 hours ago, benteen said:

Agreed.  I enjoy the storyline but keep wondering again why they don't just shut Maeve down at this point.

With the Bernard reveal, I could make an argument that if they tried, Ford, et al, would simply smart her up again.  Now that we know Bernard was really tied into the Matrix all along, I'm sure many know of Maeve and her growing independence...  

[Dobian]

I have a problem with Clementine killing the technician while everyone watched, while evil board director fired Bernard right after with no one even commenting on the much bigger issue that a man has just been murdered and they are all culpable.  No one even bats an eye.  I get the soulless corporation theme, but it seems to extend to everyone involved.

[Hanahope]

2 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I have a problem with Clementine killing the technician while everyone watched, while evil board director fired Bernard right after with no one even commenting on the much bigger issue that a man has just been murdered and they are all culpable.  No one even bats an eye.  I get the soulless corporation theme, but it seems to extend to everyone involved.

I believe it was mentioned that the other person with Clementine was also a host, but Clementine had been programmed to consider him as a guest.  After the first 'scene' where he was beating her, both of them were frozen.

[okerry]

11 hours ago, numbnut said:

Who called in sick for Elsie? Ford must have ordered a robot to grab her, but is she dead and being replaced by a 2.0?

I think that's exactly what we're meant to wonder about when next Elsie appears.

And I want to know why sometimes the techs wear hazmat suits in the parks, and sometimes they wear costumes to blend in - doesn't seem to be any pattern to that - 

And what did Clementine do that warranted freezing the whole saloon and fetching her in broad daylight, with techs in hazmat suits? Did they say and I just missed it?

[Netfoot]

12 hours ago, miss carousel said:

Why cast that actress for such a brief time?

"They don't look like anything to me."

I never noticed the cute kiss-curls near Dolores's ears.

OMFG!  That was the most inept gunfight I've ever seen!  White-hat didn't drop the pistol on the ground and that is all!

Charlotte:  Nice ass, ugly attitude.

That whole scene with Clementine running amok on cue was just so obviously set up to facilitate the takeover.  But Ford just stood there (like a robot) and let them fire Bernard.  Hmmm.  Ford doesn't strike me as the type of guy to take shit sitting down!  (Or, standing up, as the case may be.)  It's like watching a bomb.  No countdown clock or anything, but you just know it's about to explode...

The train should have gone straight into reverse.  Somebody put those rocks there for a reason, right?  A reason inimical to the train, obviously...

Interesting: Milk leaking from the eyes of the "bomb".  A highly ineffectual bomb, by the way -- didn't appear to kill any of the enemy, nor damage their Gatling gun.  What was the point of that plan?

Well, I had my doubts about the "Bernard is a host" theory, but the moment he said "What door?" I knew I'd have to accept it.  And it seems that there is nothing in their "positronic brain" that prevents robots from committing murder!  (But we learned this earlier, when Maeve grabbed that knife.)  What can you say about that last scene?  Wowza!
 

14 hours ago, Amelie06 said:

Ford is evil as shit.

No kidding!

Quote

Also, has Ford failed to notice that he is old as hell? This house of cards is going to fall down and quickly. He's got the vigor and evil plans of a much younger man. How much longer does he intend to live?

Remember, a robot can look old as hell, and still have the vigor and evil plans of a much younger man.  Perhaps Ford plans to live forever!

13 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

It also brings up the question when exactly in time are Bernard and Dolores meeting because they are in the basement's host making room.

I'm not at all sure this is correct.

12 hours ago, miss carousel said:

Why cast that actress for such a brief time?

Yeah, they could have used Sean Bean instead!

11 hours ago, locomoco said:

Besides that, do we know if the 1976 movie Futureworld is considered canon?

We know that it is not.  Wait, what?  Futureworld?  Dunno about that.  But Westworld (1973) isn't.

3 hours ago, Izeinwinter said:

Delos may own the park, but they do not control it, the crazy old man with the finger on the self-destruct button does.

"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -- Paul Muad'Dib

Edited November 14, 2016 by Netfoot

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

I don't know if two movies are enough of a universe to require debates over canon.

Don't forget the TV Show!

EDIT: Beyond Westworld, that is, not this one.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[numbnut]

6 minutes ago, okerry said:

And I want to know why sometimes the techs wear hazmat suits in the parks, and sometimes they wear costumes to blend in - doesn't seem to be any pattern to that - 

And what did Clementine do that warranted freezing the whole saloon and fetching her in broad daylight, with techs in hazmat suits? Did they say and I just missed it?

Charlotte ordered Theresa to set up a strategy to undermine Ford ASAP, so Clementine was needed for that purpose (though any robot would suffice so I don't know why they needed one from the park). Yeah, the hazmat suit thing seems arbitrary. Maybe they had no time to dress up in costumes?

Edited November 14, 2016 by numbnut

[Cthulhudrew]

5 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Interesting: Milk leaking from the eyes of the "bomb".  A highly ineffectual bomb, by the way -- didn't appear to kill any of the enemy, nor damage their Gatling gun.  What was the point of that plan?

Not milk- Nitroclycerine. The stuff they smuggled in the dead bodies a couple of episodes ago that put the Confederados on their bad side. Also, the bomb was just a distraction so they could get out of the train on horseback without being instantly cut down.

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

 

That whole scene with Clementine running amok on cue was just so obviously set up to facilitate the takeover.  But Ford just stood there (like a robot) and let them fire Bernard.  Hmmm.  Ford doesn't strike me as the type of guy to take shit sitting down!  (Or, standing up, as the case may be.)  It's like watching a bomb.  No countdown clock or anything, but you just know it's about to explode...

 

But he DIDN'T take it lying down. Theresa ended up dead. Of course he let them fire Bernard, he knows Bernard's just a robot (it's the same reason Bernard couldn't say "Well I didn't write the reveries that caused the problem" when given the opportunity by CHarlotte). 

[Cthulhudrew]

3 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Charlotte ordered Theresa to set up a strategy to undermine Ford ASAP, so Clementine was needed for that purpose. Yeah, the hazmat suit thing seems arbitrary. Maybe they had no time to dress up in costumes?

From the pictures Maeve drew, it looks like they always show up in Hazmat suits. Given the uses to which many of the hosts are put by the guests, and all the fluids and lord knows what else they might bring with them, I'd be wearing a Hazmat suit, too. :D

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Charlotte ordered Theresa to set up a strategy to undermine Ford ASAP, so Clementine was needed for that purpose. Yeah, the hazmat suit thing seems arbitrary. Maybe they had no time to dress up in costumes?

What seems odd was how Maeve saw people in hazmat suits in her dreams, yet Sylvester & Felix (her regular fixer uppers) were never seen wearing weird looking hazmat helm

[Netfoot]

2 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Not milk- Nitroclycerine. The stuff they smuggled in the dead bodies a couple of episodes ago that put the Confederados on their bad side. Also, the bomb was just a distraction so they could get out of the train on horseback without being instantly cut down.

Nitroglycerin!  Of course!  I missed that connection entirely!  Thanks...

[Uncle JUICE]

THe hazmat suits are definitely fluid-related. THat Mariposa is the scene of Escaton's heist presumably daily, it's a place where guests interact with hosts for the first time, so there's probably like cheating card game shootouts, stabbings, etc, and Teddy's usually there. The place has to be crawling with gross fluids more often than not. 

[Dobian]

18 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I believe it was mentioned that the other person with Clementine was also a host, but Clementine had been programmed to consider him as a guest.  After the first 'scene' where he was beating her, both of them were frozen.

Okay I didn't catch that, I thought he was an actual technician, thanks.  This is one show where episodes demand a re-watch.  Of course it still underscores one of the show's main themes where the brutalization of these apparently sentient beings is okay because they're just "machines", which is a good one to explore.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Dobian

[DarkRaichu]

4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Not milk- Nitroclycerine. The stuff they smuggled in the dead bodies a couple of episodes ago that put the Confederados on their bad side. Also, the bomb was just a distraction so they could get out of the train on horseback without being instantly cut down.

I have to agree with Netfoot that the amount of explosion from that 1 body was not as big as expected.  And Lawrence only had 2 bodies left

[Lamima]

Great episode! Needed it after a rather let-down episode of TWD last night. Westworld, I choose you!

Jeffrey Wright is friggin awesome. Loved him in Hunger Games and he was fan-freakin-tastic in Boardwalk Empire. But he is CRUSHING it in Westworld. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

26 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Don't forget the TV Show!

EDIT: Beyond Westworld, that is, not this one.

I forgot it in the sense of never knowing it existed. Five episodes produced, only 3 aired. Yikes. 

[Dobian]

Another thing that stood out for me last night, and has been suggested in previous episodes but last night it really stood out, is how dangerous this park is for guests.  Those bullets punching through those train cars aren't going to recognize that William is a guest and suddenly stop their trajectory.  If one of those Ghost Tribe guys shoots an arrow at Dolores and William gets in the way, it's not going to veer around him.  If a crate of nitro gets hit and explodes next to William, he's going to get blown to bits.  I'd like to see park dangers for guests acknowledged more and maybe have it pointed out that they probably sign a waiver of liability in the event of injury or death.

[Uncle JUICE]

I think you can see the waiver on the DelosINternational website.

As far as your other concerns, I think most of them come down to mechanics. I don't presume that if the bullets are "smart bullets", then I would presume that pretty much everything else is "smart" as well. The Ghost Nation folks, for example, may be programmed to "barely miss" guests when they are targeting, or not to target guests at all. THe robots might be able to calculate, sort of like I, RObot, the chances that a guest would risk themselves for a host (based on behavior tracking) and select a safer target (or the arrows could be smart, too: why wouldn't an arrow's fletching, for example, be smart enough to change the weight and trajectory). The nitroglycerin, I guess you could program that storyline to keep anyone from endangering a guest. I mean the chances that's REALLY Nitroglycerin, and not some sort of park-authored pyrotechnic effect seem really, really small. TO me the real dangers for guests are things like crazy horseback rides (again, I guess you could program the horsebots to keep guests safe, but then aren't you risking the authenticity of the experience) and, most of all, other guests. 

[DarkRaichu]

17 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Another thing that stood out for me last night, and has been suggested in previous episodes but last night it really stood out, is how dangerous this park is for guests.  Those bullets punching through those train cars aren't going to recognize that William is a guest and suddenly stop their trajectory.  If one of those Ghost Tribe guys shoots an arrow at Dolores and William gets in the way, it's not going to veer around him.  If a crate of nitro gets hit and explodes next to William, he's going to get blown to bits.  I'd like to see park dangers for guests acknowledged more and maybe have it pointed out that they probably sign a waiver of liability in the event of injury or death.

To me these were indications that William scenes took place in the past when things were not as closely controlled.  It was strange to me that MiB needed permission to ignite 2 charged cigarettes but Lawrence (a host) could shoot a body full of nitroglycerin. 

Also, a permission was required for a woodcutter to hold an axe vs the number of natives that were shooting arrows, throwing spears, and holding axes while mounting horses.  If they were so afraid of 1 axe on 1 host, how did it make sense to give permissions to dozens of horse riding hosts ???

Edited November 14, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[arc]

6 hours ago, MrSmith said:

You can't measure something that has only one dimension using a two-dimensional unit of measure. So, one side of a square cannot be measured in square miles. It can only be measured in miles. A square can be measured in square miles because there are two dimensions.

As for the speed of the train, I don't see any reason why that train would be constrained to the low speeds of actual trains from that era. Granted, I wouldn't expect it be doing 160 mph like a bullet train, but I also wouldn't expect it to be doing just 15 to 20 mph, either.

1) I already understood all of that. Reread my post. I didn't make any confusions about dimensions. Do the math for yourself about how large a square occupying 500 sq miles would be and it'll be 22.3 miles a side. Like I said already.

2) A slow train wouldn't just be historically accurate, it would help hide the constrained size of the park. The faster the train goes, the more park you need.

[Uncle JUICE]

Couldn't the train only APPEAR to move quickly from the inside? Especially over a significant distance like 10 or 20 miles, you could trick the mind with immersive displays and atmospheric effects...sort of like those old rides at Disneyowrld where it FELT like you were flying over the mountains, etc.

[kokapetl]

On 28/10/2016 at 7:49 PM, Kokapetl said:

This show's human characters are far too prone to doing things for inscrutable reasons and speaking in vague evasive ways. So much passive aggressive tap dancing around the subject (I assume).

Euro Boss Lady seems as if she's the sort of corporate stereotype who knows about the evil plan, has remorse about it, and will be killed off at an early point. 

Well she died. I knew it would happen sooner rather than later. 

Finally someone pointed out that the "reveries" were a fucking stupid idea. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Kokapetl

[numbnut]

39 minutes ago, Lamima said:

Great episode! Needed it after a rather let-down episode of TWD last night. Westworld, I choose you!

Jeffrey Wright is friggin awesome. Loved him in Hunger Games and he was fan-freakin-tastic in Boardwalk Empire. But he is CRUSHING it in Westworld. 

ITA about TWD last night (Negan is too one-note for me). Jeffrey Wright is always great. Such a chameleon. Loved him as the villain in Shaft. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSFCW8cDIU8

[blackwing]

Kudos to those that predicted that Bernard was a host.  I was floored.

I'm still fairly confused on exactly what is happening though.  The hosts are becoming self-aware.  I assume that's Ford's doing, through Bernard?  What is Ford's ultimate goal?  To create a world of self-thinking robots?  Why?

I echo the utter boredom concerning William.  Dolores is awesome, but William is just snooze-inducing.  I couldn't care less that the spineless sad sack is "discovering" himself within this artificial world.  He slept with a robot knowing that she is a robot and acts like she has given him meaning to continue living.  What?  He's boring, and I hate his hair.

Maeve continues to rock.

I missed seeing Teddy and the Man in Black.  I'm also curious as to what happened to Elsie and to Logan.  Are they just gone for good?  Ben Barnes isn't a "name" name, but he's certainly more recognisable to me than some of the others that are being featured more prominently.  Would be surprised if that's it for him.

Why did they need to lobotomize Clementine?  Is this just the first step to putting her into Basement Hall of Naked Warriors?  So did Abernathy dad and Milk Drinking Shooter also get lobotomized?  I don't understand the need for it, I don't understand why they can't just turn them off and deactivate them.

[Dobian]

18 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

I think you can see the waiver on the DelosINternational website.

As far as your other concerns, I think most of them come down to mechanics. I don't presume that if the bullets are "smart bullets", then I would presume that pretty much everything else is "smart" as well. The Ghost Nation folks, for example, may be programmed to "barely miss" guests when they are targeting, or not to target guests at all. THe robots might be able to calculate, sort of like I, RObot, the chances that a guest would risk themselves for a host (based on behavior tracking) and select a safer target (or the arrows could be smart, too: why wouldn't an arrow's fletching, for example, be smart enough to change the weight and trajectory). The nitroglycerin, I guess you could program that storyline to keep anyone from endangering a guest. I mean the chances that's REALLY Nitroglycerin, and not some sort of park-authored pyrotechnic effect seem really, really small. TO me the real dangers for guests are things like crazy horseback rides (again, I guess you could program the horsebots to keep guests safe, but then aren't you risking the authenticity of the experience) and, most of all, other guests. 

Well you can program all you want and make things "smart" and recognize who a guest is and who a host is, but you can't program around the laws of physics.  So if a host shoots an arrow at another host and they duck and a guest is right behind him/her, that's all she wrote for the guest.  There's way to much unpredictability to account for when you have hosts doing violent and lethal things to each other in the immediate vicinity of the guests.

Okay another thing (too many things for me to keep track of this episode), how did Theresa not know Bernard was a robot?  I get that they are real enough to fool you in a social setting, but when they are intimate with you?  All the biological things like a heartbeat, breathing, sweating, body odor, gas, blemishes, skin flaking, saliva, stomach growling, body temperature.  Some of those things you could simulate to a certain extent.  But surely they can't all be simulated to such an exacting degree that someone couldn't tell the difference between a robot and a human.

[arc]

11 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Couldn't the train only APPEAR to move quickly from the inside? Especially over a significant distance like 10 or 20 miles, you could trick the mind with immersive displays and atmospheric effects...sort of like those old rides at Disneyowrld where it FELT like you were flying over the mountains, etc.

I guess, but it would be a LOT of work esp considering guests are free to jump off moving trains, ask the conductor to stop unexpectedly, etc. And there's a lower bound to how slow the train could go and not feel ridiculous, IMO, plus we know that when it was leaving Pariah it was just speeding up and that was already just slightly slower than William was able to run. And the train would have to at least feel like it was accelerating. Ultimately, too much work IMO when so much of the park is done the hard way instead of trickery.

[ennui]

15 hours ago, Amelie06 said:

And who keeps curling Delores's hair?

It's Barbie hair, not human hair.

12 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I wouldn't mind fooling around with Rodrigo Santoro either, but answering the door naked and leaving him tied up is a bit tacky.

For some reason, this scene offended me. Charlotte calls down for him like room service, and then ties him up? It's not like he has free will. I understand that she enjoys having power over another, but it still bothered me. And then she puts him on hold to have a board meeting? Charlotte is my least favorite character, they can kill her off any time.

Also, when Hector was in the lab and they were testing him with modern images, do we think he's going to remember those? 

Great episode. Loved Clementine, that shift from heart-breaking 'help me' to bad ass self-defense.

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Okay another thing (too many things for me to keep track of this episode), how did Theresa not know Bernard was a robot?  I get that they are real enough to fool you in a social setting, but when they are intimate with you?  All the biological things like a heartbeat, breathing, sweating, body odor, gas, blemishes, skin flaking, saliva, stomach growling, body temperature.  Some of those things you could simulate to a certain extent.  But surely they can't all be simulated to such an exacting degree that someone couldn't tell the difference between a robot and a human.

I am going to fanwank that Theresa never stayed the night after they did it.

[arc]

Just now, Dobian said:

Well you can program all you want and make things "smart" and recognize who a guest is and who a host is, but you can't program around the laws of physics.  So if a host shoots an arrow at another host and they duck and a guest is right behind him/her, that's all she wrote for the guest.  There's way to much unpredictability to account for when you have hosts doing violent and lethal things to each other in the immediate vicinity of the guests.

Wellllll, the hosts are supposedly programmed to take a metaphorical bullet for any nearby humans. This has mostly been left outside the show, in the official supporting websites, but consider how a dying Teddy still immediately stopped TMIB's knife from touching Ford. So a host would, if anything, move into an arrow's path, not duck.

And as for the gatling gun and the train... we know the control room has to authorize pyrotechnic effects, so they can dial down or turn off explosions as necessary, so the park can be assured the confederados won't blow up the train when they shoot at it. (Still seems a little sloppy on narrative's part to have confederados tracking down stolen nitroglycerin and firing bullets at it, but whatever.) OK, and as for the bullets hitting guests inside the train... magic guns. TMIB's gun shot a guy through a wall back in Las Mudas in ep 2. So the magic guns have to know who's in the path of bullets, even through opaque objects.

We also saw how Sweetwater is easy mode tonight. Maeve walked past "Grizzly Adams", who bumped into yet another guest. Both drew their guns, the guest didn't quite figure out how to fire at first... and the host just held fire and waited to die. Because he's like, practically the first encounter and he shouldn't be a hard challenge, in game terms.

[Uncle JUICE]

10 minutes ago, arc said:

I guess, but it would be a LOT of work esp considering guests are free to jump off moving trains, ask the conductor to stop unexpectedly, etc. And there's a lower bound to how slow the train could go and not feel ridiculous, IMO, plus we know that when it was leaving Pariah it was just speeding up and that was already just slightly slower than William was able to run. And the train would have to at least feel like it was accelerating. Ultimately, too much work IMO when so much of the park is done the hard way instead of trickery.

Great point. So that minor problem remains.

[ennui]

7 minutes ago, arc said:

Maeve walked past "Grizzly Adams", who bumped into yet another guest. Both drew their guns, the guest didn't quite figure out how to fire at first... and the host just held fire and waited to die.

That's how Maeve starts every day. It's like Dolores and her can of milk. Imho, both of those men are hosts.