Scientology: Miscavige and Sons

[funky-rat]

4 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

I'm glad you did!  I wasn't even aware there was a legit Narcanon.  Learn something new every day.

All this just adds to the Cult's sneaky methodology.

Thanks for enlightening us! (:hug:)(:hi:)

Yup.  Six months ago, I didn't know about NarcAnon either, and only knew about AA because a family member went through it eons ago, and aside from the standard jokes.  Until someone I love ended up in AA.  I'm fiercely protective of people in recovery, and people with mental illness.  COS pushes all of my buttons.  Repeatedly.  I still don't know anyone who is in NarcAnon, but I know they meet in the church I attend every week, and I will protect them as fiercely as those who are in AA.  They're just trying to get better.

[Guest]

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 0:18 PM, fastiller said:

Q for the mod/s: I've seen in a couple of other threads people mentioning that there's no thread for general questions about Scientology.  Would this be the proper/appropriate place for them?  (I don't have any right now, but I am interested to know where they'd land.)

I'm sorry; I just noticed this question.  Yes, this would be the appropriate place for questions/discussions about Scientology.

[Brattinella]

13 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

Yup.  Six months ago, I didn't know about NarcAnon either, and only knew about AA because a family member went through it eons ago, and aside from the standard jokes.  Until someone I love ended up in AA.  I'm fiercely protective of people in recovery, and people with mental illness.  COS pushes all of my buttons.  Repeatedly.  I still don't know anyone who is in NarcAnon, but I know they meet in the church I attend every week, and I will protect them as fiercely as those who are in AA.  They're just trying to get better.

In the olden days, we used to call it "NA".  As in, "going to an NA meeting". 

[fastiller]

40 minutes ago, deaja said:

I'm sorry; I just noticed this question.  Yes, this would be the appropriate place for questions/discussions about Scientology.

No need for apology.  Thanks for clarifying/confirming.

[Rlb8031]

One thing that has given me pause in watching this show, is the language that Scientologist use to describe their religion to themselves and others.  At times the language is completely at odds with their beliefs, like when Mike Rinder daughter described her relationship with her father in a way that would resonate with non-CO$ folks, but was directly at odds with CO$ teachings. 

The second  instance that stood out for me was when the Headley's  talked about people "escaping" from Hemet. Why would the church call them escapees if they really not being held against their will? People don't escape from schools, monasteries,  or jobs which is how CO$ has described life in SeaOrg. You escape from prison. It's one of those times where I think you see Miscavage's  influence rather than LRH's. 

[CofCinci]

In her AMA Leah wrote that at OT-8 you learn that "God is a lie for LRH".  What does that mean?

[Wings]

27 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

In her AMA Leah wrote that at OT-8 you learn that "God is a lie for LRH".  What does that mean?

What does AMA stand for?  I keep meaning to ask.  

I have no idea other than she added, for LRH because she  believes in god and did not want to give the impression that all clams agree with his statement.   Better stated, LRH believes god is a lie.  My guess.   

[trow125]

AMA = "Ask Me Anything"

This link should answer a lot of the questions about LRH's views of God and Christianity. 

Quote

The reason Scientologists are “expected to and do become fully devoted to Scientology to the exclusion of other faiths” is because L. Ron Hubbard considered all other religions to be what he called “R6” alien implants. The Church of Scientology will not disclose to the public Hubbard’s secret teachings about Jesus Christ, Islam, or any other religion. Only the most indoctrinated Scientologists get to read Hubbard’s secret teachings about Jesus Christ. As a public service, therefore, the Scientology Money Project discloses these teachings.

[green]

^  Makes sense.  Hubbard believing in a superior space dude is very typical of some non-religious people.  Or non-spiritual people too.  Had he have been alive today and not founded a crazy cult he would have made a "great" (sic) talking head on Ancient Aliens, wouldn't he, haha.

Edited January 17, 2017 by green

[SherriAnt]

I don't know if this is the right place to ask or not, but with all those babies, toddlers and children being neglected and abused, how has there not been any severe mental issues? That kind of treatment could really wreck a childs mind, and how are they learning to talk, walk, or potty train? You hear all the time about violent criminals coming from that kind of background.

[fastiller]

@SherriAnt - I would suggest that there are severe mental issues.  I think that's evident with all the folks LR & MR have spoken with (even for those who joined as adults).  Mr. Hassan, the ex-Moonie guest from the latest AMA ep would probably tell us that there are severe mental issues with anyone leaving any cult.  I think a question that really needs answering is "where are all the child neglect (criminal) charges for all these babies being left alone?"

[Meadow]

The child neglect is the part that I find unforgivable.  You beat your coworker?  Tensions were high and he'd do the same to you, so forgiven.  You Fair Gamed someone?  You were brainwashed and regret it now, so forgiven.  You left your baby in a urine soaked crib?  You're dead to me, unless you're Spanky Taylor, who saw her sick baby, grabbed her and made a break for it.

SherriAnt, I think you're absolutely right.  I think when Scientology collapses, we'll hear some truly alarming stories that have been hidden.  Not every neglected baby or child survived illnesses.  There have been a number of suicides that are covered up.  There have been homicides.  The cult expert, Steve Hassan, who does counseling for those who escape said that out of all ex-cult members, Scientologists have the deepest and longest lasting damage.  I hope and pray that there will be accountability for all of this.

[funky-rat]

14 minutes ago, Meadow said:

The child neglect is the part that I find unforgivable.  You beat your coworker?  Tensions were high and he'd do the same to you, so forgiven.  You Fair Gamed someone?  You were brainwashed and regret it now, so forgiven.  You left your baby in a urine soaked crib?  You're dead to me, unless you're Spanky Taylor, who saw her sick baby, grabbed her and made a break for it.

SherriAnt, I think you're absolutely right.  I think when Scientology collapses, we'll hear some truly alarming stories that have been hidden.  Not every neglected baby or child survived illnesses.  There have been a number of suicides that are covered up.  There have been homicides.  The cult expert, Steve Hassan, who does counseling for those who escape said that out of all ex-cult members, Scientologists have the deepest and longest lasting damage.  I hope and pray that there will be accountability for all of this.

Yet another case for their decision to "phase out" babies.

[zxy556575]

Here's one of the local missions near me. The first word that comes to mind is not "church." Maybe a nicer version of the customer service lobby at my Internet provider where they try to upsell their TV packages.

[LilWharveyGal]

I just caught this year's $cientology commercial in the pre-Super Bowl coverage.  I feel dirty now.

[Brattinella]

Wow I missed the pre-game show, gah @ CO$ commercial!  Glad I missed it.

[zxy556575]

Here's how we all get rich:

There's so much blather from every single ex-Scientologists about how helpful the basic Communication courses were, how they gained confidence, that they brought a lot of benefit and positive change, yadda yadda.

So let's crib some info off the Internet about basic communication skills, franchise a chain of storefronts and charge $50 a course. People can finally freaking communicate and we won't make them mortgage their houses and break off family ties to do it. Jeez.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Lord Donia

[Rlb8031]

I was listening to an episode of Surviving Scientology where they talked about Hubbard's belief that Dianetics was an essential feeder for the CO$. So he encouraged the spread of the initial books as far and wide as possible and talked about Dianetics users being the fresh meat that got fed into the system to ultimately create new members. One thousand people paying $300-$500 to get through the basic courses resulted in $30-50,000. Now it seems that DM has gotten the CO$ away from recruitment and sale of services model to simply requiring parishioners to give til it hurts. Dianetics isn't pushed to the masses, and as a result members need to reach into their pockets every Thursday or else. 

[Giselle]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:03 AM, CofCinci said:

In her AMA Leah wrote that at OT-8 you learn that "God is a lie for LRH".  What does that mean?

He realizes cold hard cash is king and it's good to have minions.

[Giselle]

On 1/22/2017 at 2:42 PM, Lord Donia said:

Here's one of the local missions near me. The first word that comes to mind is not "church." Maybe a nicer version of the customer service lobby at my Internet provider where they try to upsell their TV packages.

Can you order a caramel frappuchino as they fleece you?

[zxy556575]

The Bunker has an article today about the 25th anniversary of Miscavige's disasterous Nightline appearance. I never really processed that Miscavige was only 25 when Hubbard died and he initiated his power grab. That's awfully young to be so shrewdly conniving.

I assume others have also started reading Rindah's blog since the show? I gotta say, I find some of his replies in the comments section to be thin-skinned and bordering on rude. Like he told one poster not to worry her pretty little head when she suggested some legal avenues. He doesn't take criticism well.

He's got decades of indoctrination behind him but it seems like even after all the time, he still maintains some of that Scientology superiority mindset. Or maybe he was that way all along. I changed my mind about him several times on the show, going from kind of negative at first, to slightly positive, then back down again. I admire him but he can be hard to like.

[Giselle]

1 minute ago, Lord Donia said:

The Bunker has an article today about the 25th anniversary of Miscavige's disasterous Nightline appearance. I never really processed that Miscavige was only 25 when Hubbard died and he initiated his power grab. That's awfully young to be so shrewdly conniving.

I assume others have also started reading Rindah's blog since the show? I gotta say, I find some of his replies in the comments section to be thin-skinned and bordering on rude. Like he told one poster not to worry her pretty little head when she suggested some legal avenues. He doesn't take criticism well.

He's got decades of indoctrination behind him but it seems like even after all the time, he still maintains some of that Scientology superiority mindset. Or maybe he was that way all along. I changed my mind about him several times on the show, going from kind of negative at first, to slightly positive, then back down again. I admire him but he can be hard to like.

His heart and mind may be in the right place but his delivery can be a bit harsh, rude and/or condescending at times. He is not one to suffer fools lightly. That part of his personality may always be there regardless of being in or out of scientology. It may or may not soften with time out of the cult.

It is probably a personality trait they saw in him early on and went onto cultivate, nurture and exploit to develop him into being their attack dog. A very good one according to his victims.

I'd rather him be our rude jerk than theirs.

[Brattinella]

16 minutes ago, Giselle said:

I'd rather him be our rude jerk than theirs.

Well put.

[Atlanta]

Read this whole thread and don't think this has been touched on, but do any scientologists merely leave and never come back? I mean, do they just stop going to audits/courses/whatever this cult does and it's left alone? Do they stalk all ex members? Sea Org seems nearly impossible to escape, but I wonder about Mr Joe Public who was in the cult for a bit and just stops doing stuff. I'm also amazed that they don't make the adult Sea Org members get vasectomies or for women, their tubes tied. They are so anti having children.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Atlanta

[Brattinella]

29 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

Read this whole thread and don't think this has been touched on, but do any scientologists merely leave and never come back? I mean, do they just stop going to audits/courses/whatever this cult does and it's left alone? Do they stalk all ex members? Sea Org seems nearly impossible to escape, but I wonder about Mr Joe Public who was in the cult for a bit and just stops doing stuff. I'm also amazed that they don't make the adult Sea Org members get vasectomies or for women, their tubes tied. They are so anti having children.

I think if members leave before they are beholden, say, before they sign that ridiculous contract, or go out on the boat, they can probably get away painlessly.

[zxy556575]

From what I've read, the public Scientologists (Leah was one and referred to them as "parishioners") can and do stop participating and try to stay under the radar, but their local "church" will likely notice and commence hounding them -- sometimes for years! -- to get back on track and paying for courses. If they flat out say they're done, they run the risk of being declared suppressive and having other Scientologists disconnect from them.

[fastiller]

A screenshot of my Twitter feed.  Are they following me? (Not Twitter following. Just following.)

[Twiz44]

I'm not quite sure which thread it was that I saw several questions about CO$ real estate holdings in Clearwater (where I live) but this was in today's paper which may answer a few questions. 

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/scientology-leader-to-visit-clearwater-officials-a-week-before-vote-on/2315026?utm_source=TBT_email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daystarter&utm_email=a8ac2aa601edfa6f97ce3c3f5118f105

[Wings]

Interesting that the aquarium or whoever owns this, intends to sell this land to the city and is not waiting for Miscavage to show up with the offer he made last year.  Did I get that right?  The article is poorly written.  

[Sup wit dat]

I don't kow if this has already been posted but there's a show starting March 5 on E!/USA called The Arrangement.  There's controversy over the speculation that it's a show about Tom and Katie's marriage but the producer's are denying any similarities as coincidence.  I've got my dvr timer set.  Wouldn't miss it for the world!

There's a forum already set up.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Sup wit dat

[fastiller]

I can never decide if these sorts of posts s/b in this thread or "resources" or other.  So, from Jezebel, about their recent DirtCast podcast episode: Is Scientology on the Way Out?  

[Maelstrom]

I have fastiller's dilemma - not sure if this belongs here or not, but I don't know where else to post it. Anyway, Tony Ortega has a very interesting breakdown of the "free personality tests" the CO$ uses to hook in unsuspecting victims. (Spoiler alert: they're total BS!)

[zxy556575]

Aaron Smith-Levin started a Q&A video series about Scientology. The first one mentions the Incident of the Disconnected Dog. Turns out that after his episode of Aftermath aired, Scientology did indeed require the neighbor to stop associating with his dog. There was a chain link fence with a gate between her property and Aaron's and she had to replace it with a solid privacy fence.

So very loony, they are.

[Maelstrom]

^^ But, but, how will the poor dog ever understand what happened? It will blame its poor little doggy self! /snark

[zxy556575]

The dog should blame herself. She pulled it in.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I didn't think I could possibly think less of the people running the Church of Scientology. But their demand that the neighbor woman stop associating with that poor innocent dog has made me truly hate them. 

What a bunch of looney assholes.  Just foul human beings running that place. Demented.

[juliet73]

I'm sure if the dog was able to hold the cans, it would have to undergo auditing. 

[greekmom]

I didn't know which thread to post this. A new movie about CO$.  I may check it out 

[Wings]

I will rent this on amazon some night.  It looks good.  I like the humor approach.

 I know the inner workings enough, I have heard enough sob stories and certainly enough lies.  I am still very interested in the COS take down, but I hunger for a view from a different angle.  I hope Leah and Mike have a fresh format in season 2.

This is interesting on Tom Cruise moving to Clearwater.

[Atlanta]

Clearwater doesn't want Co$ or Cruise. Clearwater is beautiful and nice without all that cray cray.

[Wings]

3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Clearwater doesn't want Co$ or Cruise. Clearwater is beautiful and nice without all that cray cray.

I know!  Residents hate it!  What a shame to ruin such a nice city right in the water. 

[juliet73]

Not sure where to post this so I'll just leave it here...There is a show on CNN called "Believer with Reza Aslan".  He has an episode called the "Scientology Reformation". It's about Scientologists who have left the church, but still practice the "religion".  The people who appear in the episode are not the usual familiar faces, ie Marty Rathbun, etc.  It was quite interesting and more of a neutral, sometimes positive, look at $cientology.

[Maelstrom]

^^ Tony Ortega didn't think much of Reza Aslan's special:

http://tonyortega.org/2017/03/27/reza-aslans-believer-episode-about-indie-scientology-lived-down-to-all-expectations/

http://tonyortega.org/2017/03/28/lawrence-wright-goes-to-nazareth-or-how-reza-aslan-drove-us-into-the-arms-of-l-ron-hubbard/#more-38879

http://tonyortega.org/2017/03/21/reza-aslan-is-already-being-dishonest-about-indie-scientology-ahead-of-cnn-episode/

[spiderpig]

On 4/1/2017 at 1:08 PM, wings707 said:

This is interesting on Tom Cruise moving to Clearwater.

It certainly was an interesting take, wings.  I hope Clearwater tells Tommy and Davy to go pound sand.

BTW, the trailers are out now for Tommy's new epic The Mummy.  I was horrified to see Russell Crowe involved in this.  Bad boy that he is, I still loves me my Rusty, so I am sorely conflicted.

Nope - not enough to contribute a dime to Tommy's box office/The Scam.  If you haven't seen the spot, there's a scene where Tommy sits up bare-chested on what appears to be a morgue gurney, and the sheet falls down so we can see his manly-man 55-year-old abs.  This is something I cannot unsee.

Yeesh - he gets worse by the day.

[zxy556575]

48 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

BTW, the trailers are out now for Tommy's new epic The Mummy.  I was horrified to see Russell Crowe involved in this.  Bad boy that he is, I still loves me my Rusty, so I am sorely conflicted.

Ah, interesting. I don't follow Tom's career but that sounds like a delicious bomb in the making.

Luckily I remain unconflicted because (1) I don't go out to see movies any more, and (2) Russell Crowe is also on my boycott list. (Sorry, @spiderpig!)

[spiderpig]

1 minute ago, Lord Donia said:

Luckily I remain unconflicted because (1) I don't go out to see movies any more, and (2) Russell Crowe is also on my boycott list. (Sorry, @spiderpig!)

S'Okay, Lord.  More for moi! :-)

[AZChristian]

6 hours ago, spiderpig said:

BTW, the trailers are out now for Tommy's new epic The Mummy.  I was horrified to see Russell Crowe involved in this.  Bad boy that he is, I still loves me my Rusty, so I am sorely conflicted.

I feel your pain.  But the scale is so heavy on the anti-Tom side that I'm not conflicted.  Sorry, Russell.

[Wings]

I am not conflicted either!  If COS goes down Tom will not be effected at all.  He will not speak about it and just continue to be king of the hill in Clearwater with whoever is left.  

Losing their tax exempt status would destroy Miscavach eventually, but not Tom.   That is a big deal to pull off.  I hope Leah and Mike can expose enough to make the IRS take a closer look.  

[MrSmith]

7 hours ago, spiderpig said:

It certainly was an interesting take, wings.  I hope Clearwater tells Tommy and Davy to go pound sand.

BTW, the trailers are out now for Tommy's new epic The Mummy.  I was horrified to see Russell Crowe involved in this.  Bad boy that he is, I still loves me my Rusty, so I am sorely conflicted.

Nope - not enough to contribute a dime to Tommy's box office/The Scam.  If you haven't seen the spot, there's a scene where Tommy sits up bare-chested on what appears to be a morgue gurney, and the sheet falls down so we can see his manly-man 55-year-old abs.  This is something I cannot unsee.

Yeesh - he gets worse by the day.

I wasn't planning to see The Mummy, anyway, but I had to check out the trailers (there are now 2 of them). It looks pretty lame, which is what I thought when I saw a preview in the theatre for it. And Russell Crowe plays "Dr. Henry Jekyll". So, seems pretty clear they're intending to do a Jekyll and Hyde movie. And I won't see that, either, because I don't think Russell Crowe is that good an actor.

[Arynm]

I was in New York earlier this week and my hotel was scarily near the Scientology building in Times Square. As in, I walked around the corner from my hotel and there it was, in all its glory. They had a big sign that said Scientology out front and big TVs showing all manner of Scientology crap. The windows were filled with Hubbard books (in several different languages). They had TVs, Outside! I looked in the windows as I was walking by and saw the people that were working, but no one else. I never saw anyone go in. Place scared the crap out of me so I tried to avoid it, just had bad juju and it smelled bad. Could have been New York in general that smelled, but I didn't notice it until I was near the building.