S05.E05: Human Target

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Jessie2009 said:

I haven't watched yet. Did they mention at all if this relationship is serious for felicity? Did they say whether they are living together or was he just at her apartment? 

They didn't give any indication of living arrangements - but it does seem like they're living together? Although what kind of loser Mayo has to be to move in with a woman who doesn't want to introduce him to her friends, IDK. And Felicity said she didn't know if it was "real." So, not serious it seems.

[Jessie2009]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

They didn't give any indication of living arrangements - but it does seem like they're living together? Although what kind of loser Mayo has to be to move in with a woman who doesn't want to introduce him to her friends, IDK. And Felicity said she didn't know if it was "real." So, not serious it seems.

Well at least there's that. This whole thing is a mess. Wonder how bad it will get before they start on the damage control.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Jessie2009 said:

Well at least there's that. This whole thing is a mess. Wonder how bad it will get before they start on the damage control.

If there hasn't been any kind of damage control wrt the ratings so far, I don't think there will be, unless the ratings for 6 absolutely tank. And who knows what they'll focus on then.

Edited November 3, 2016 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

8 minutes ago, Jessie2009 said:

I haven't watched yet. Did they mention at all if this relationship is serious for felicity? Did they say whether they are living together or was he just at her apartment? 

She said she didn't know if it was "real" (but Oliver urges her to give it a chance) and Oliver was free to show up in the middle of the night at the loft so I think it's safe to say, no, he does NOT live there.  

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

They didn't give any indication of living arrangements - but it does seem like they're living together? Although what kind of loser Mayo has to be to move in with a woman who doesn't want to introduce him to her friends, IDK. And Felicity said she didn't know if it was "real." So, not serious it seems.

Felicity expected Oliver to use the door of the loft rather than the balcony, so I don't think Mayo lives with her.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If there hasn't been any kind of damage control wrt the ratings so far, I don't think there will be, unless the ratings for 6 absolutely tank. And who knows what they'll focus on then.

I think it's safe to say that nothing would really change until MAYBE the last half of the second part of the season since they are already filming 5-10 and about to do 5-11.  At least another 3 scripts are probably already written.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

Thank goodness for the baseball game -- excitement, struggle, and a rain delay to up the angst.

I hate how manipulative this whole thing is.  It's like a "paint-by-the-numbers".   I can see exactly what they want me to feel and It's insulting to my intelligence.

  If this were a a fanfic, I'd tell them to go home and practice some more before publishing.  As Mischa Collins tweeted about, the World Series, "whoever wrote this script has a really good flare for drama."  Too bad Arrow hasn't.

[Jessie2009]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

She said she didn't know if it was "real" (but Oliver urges her to give it a chance) and Oliver was free to show up in the middle of the night at the loft so I think it's safe to say, no, he does NOT live there.  

Felicity expected Oliver to use the door of the loft rather than the balcony, so I don't think Mayo lives with her.  

Did they give any indication if she's still in love with him or vice versa or did they just decide to move on?

[BkWurm1]

9 minutes ago, Jessie2009 said:

Did they give any indication if she's still in love with him or vice versa or did they just decide to move on?

He say's he's totally fine with her moving on and Felicity says of course she wasn't holding out hope they'd get back together.  (While one climbs up her balcony in the middle of the night and the other hasn't been able to bring herself to tell Oliver she's dating cause it would be awkward.) That's the first conversation, (there was a bit more but that's the gist) the second one she goes to his office where he says he just wants her to be happy and that she should give Mayo a chance and see if it is real cause Oliver is going to go look for someone to do that with too.  (Which is what she said she was there to say to him) Then he said he cared for her and and always would and called it a "Mortal Lock".  She thanked him.  

There's a lot of looks going on to interpret as well of course.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

Ok, I'm so sorry, but...."mortal lock"?  What does that even mean?

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, I'm so sorry, but...."mortal lock"?  What does that even mean?

No idea but it's what my closed caption said.  Probably saying nothing but death would change that?

[Sunshine]

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, I'm so sorry, but...."mortal lock"?  What does that even mean?

Something that can't lose.  100% guarantee. Sure bet.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Sunshine

[Starfish35]

No, I'm not doubting you that he said it.  I just think it's strange dialogue to have written.  

Eta: Never mind - I guess it's just a phrase I'm unfamiliar with.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

if it is real cause Oliver is going to go look for someone to do that with too.

Didn't he say that he owed it to himself to embrace whatever's next for him when he's not the ::hood motion::, whatever in the hell that means

[BkWurm1]

Has anyone ever heard that phrase used before?  (Mortal Lock) I haven't.  That's why I hit the closed caption, I had no idea what Oliver mumbled. 

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Didn't he say that he owed it to himself to embrace whatever's next for him when he's not the ::hood motion::, whatever in the hell that means

Yes.  I paraphrased, lol.  

Edited November 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

Mortal lock, according to Urban Dictionary:

A term to describe a bet that is virtually guaranteed winner, but in reality it is just a coin flip.  

The term is a modification of the term, lock, which is used to describe a guaranteed winner in sports betting. 

The use of this term is introduced by a poster, Richkas, who use the term to gain attention for his sports gambling picks. Due to the fact that his mortal locks are no better than a coin flip, the term is usually used as a comical modifier for sports gambling picks. 

There are several variations of the term lock. Some popular variations are, Sicilian Lock, bet your mother's house lock, and $$$mortal lock$$$.

 

 

Makes about as much sense as anything else on this show.

[calliope1975]

Quote

A term to describe a bet that is virtually guaranteed winner, but in reality it is just a coin flip. 

So...his caring for her is basically contingent on plot chance? I give up.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, calliope1975 said:

So...his caring for her is basically contingent on plot chance? I give up.

Sounds about right.

[Thundercatmary]

Or the more likely scenario that they have no idea what it means and didn't bother to check lol

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, Thundercatmary said:

Or the more likely scenario that they have no idea what it means and didn't bother to check lol

I'm pretty sure it's both, lol. 

[Sunshine]

I used dictionary.com....It just said sure bet. 100% guarantee.  Nothing about a flip of a coin. LOL!

Edited November 3, 2016 by Sunshine

[BkWurm1]

Just now, Sunshine said:

I used some dictionary besides urban....It just said sure bet. 100% guarantee.  Nothing about a flip of a coin. LOL!

That he will always care for her.  Really, that wasn't in doubt.  That the show will care that he cares for her, yeah, who knows.  

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yes.  I paraphrased, lol.  

I just wanted to type out the actual wording because it's so stupid? I would've preferred if he'd said something about moving on in plain language. Does he mean that he's not going to look for someone until he isn't the Green Arrow anymore? (Highly, highly unlikely). If not, what does the Green Arrow have to do with it? These writers need to spend less time on Twitter and more time working on making things make sense. 

[dtissagirl]

Learning how to write human dialogue anytime soon would be aces.

[SmallScreenDiva]

That's what I'm wondering about in that scene. What does being Green Arrow have to do with anything? That's not why he and Felicity broke up. It's because he's a lying liar who lies! 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

That's what I'm wondering about in that scene. What does being Green Arrow have to do with anything? That's not why he and Felicity broke up. It's because he's a lying liar who lies! 

Maybe he wants to find someone to date during the day - when he isn't Green Arrow? That's all I could think of that makes any kind of sense (but even that doesn't make MUCH), although again - not sure what Green Arrow has to do with it. Felicity told him last season she was wrong when she said he couldn't change, so he shouldn't be holding onto that "that's this life" stuff where she said he'd always revert to lying as long as he was the GA. But that's me expecting this show to make sense, so...LOL

Edited November 3, 2016 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

But Oliver thinks that being the Green Arrow is what prevents him from having a normal life.  That's why he sent William away.

 

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

That he will always care for her.  Really, that wasn't in doubt.  That the show will care that he cares for her, yeah, who knows.  

In the second conversation, there was a lot of talk about how well they  know each other and will always love each other, with the subtext of they're just perfect for each other.  And on that, we're supposed to believe that they will get together when they figure it out but meanwhile Oliver will work on options, including his romantic ones without Felicity.

To quote the film Sabrina again "Do I look stupid?  I never thought I did but maybe I'm wrong."

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But Oliver thinks that being the Green Arrow is what prevents him from having a normal life.  That's why he sent William away.

I disagree - he still wanted to marry Felicity after sending William away. I don't think Oliver sees the Green Arrow as keeping him from having a normal relationship or a normal life. It just kept him from having a plot point. 

[Mellowyellow]

13 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

In the second conversation, there was a lot of talk about how well they  know each other and will always love each other, with the subtext of they're just perfect for each other.  And on that, we're supposed to believe that they will get together when they figure it out but meanwhile Oliver will work on options, including his romantic ones without Felicity.

To quote the film Sabrina again "Do I look stupid?  I never thought I did but maybe I'm wrong."

Did they use the word "love"?

Cuz to me the "I will always care about you" stuff is really lame and implies they've killed it for good.  I care about my elderly neighbours! 

Omg this is like reliving Harry Potter again! I just need to commit to dropping it!

[ohjoy]

This Show. Ugh, why am I still watching this show? I wish I knew how to quit you, Arrow.

Rene, you had one job. Sigh.

Welcome back Diggle! Please don't get stuck spending all your time with the noobs.

Hey, Wil Traval in a role I actually like! ('Cause I can't with Will Simpson.)

Not looking forward to the cries of betrayal when everyone finds out that Oliver didn't spend the entire five years on the island.

This is the second time this week that I've yelled at a good looking 30-something blond man to not sleep with the two-faced female who clearly cares only about using him to play out her work as she sees fit. Hope Oliver actually listens.

I laughed at Felicity's "you have failed this city" from behind the mask.

And my sincerest apologies to perfectly grown and mature men named "Billy" everywhere, but I cannot take any show conversations about this guy seriously. (My apologies to Tyler Ritter as well; I'm sure he's a nice guy, and his talents would be much more appreciated elsewhere.) I look at him, and then I look at Oliver, and I'm just like, Nope. He just looks so young and gullible, and the way he's totally letting Felicity get away with the obviously bad lying about wanting him to meet her friends, or Oliver already being fully aware of their relationship -- he's not even a challenge for her. (And there's no way he can do the salmon ladder, which I'm pretty sure is the deal breaker Felicity never realized she'd made for her life.)

The heart eyes were just as subtle as everything else on this show is nowadays. Doesn't make me ragey, just makes me wonder why I'm sitting through the crap that doesn't matter when I could just come back if/when the show ever attempts to get back to the stuff that does. (However, see my beginning statement.)

Edited November 3, 2016 by RandomMe

[BkWurm1]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did they use the word "love"?

Cuz to me the "I will always care about you" stuff is really lame and implies they've killed it for good.  I care about my elderly neighbours! 

No, just care.  But they also didn't use love with regards Mayo or anyone else.  So there's that.

I think they are just leaving all cards on the table.   

Edited November 3, 2016 by BkWurm1

[Lantern7]

I was okay with the episode. I thought the show was taking a week off along with The Flash, so I figured this would be a good time to take a break. Reporter Lady is shady, Prometheus kills the only other major villain, and the flashbacks are constructive . . . though I'm still wondering how we'll end up with wild-bearded Oliver from the pilot.

I'm really hoping EBR ad-libbed with the mask. And what's better than bringing in a guy from a failed series? Bringing in a character that inspired two failed series! This show, sometimes.

I kinda wish Oliver was "dead" a little longer, so we'd have Quentin Lance: Mayor. Totally wouldn't have blamed him if he jumped off the wagon. Fuck it, the average lifespan of a Star City mayor is six months, so why not live large?

"Wild Dong" . . . that's funny. At least Rene got a little growth, and Diggle rebounded from a rough few episodes to shine as a mentor.

[statsgirl]

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I disagree - he still wanted to marry Felicity after sending William away. I don't think Oliver sees the Green Arrow as keeping him from having a normal relationship or a normal life. It just kept him from having a plot point. 

Maybe we're supposed to think that Felicity is the only woman who he could have a relationship with while he's also being the Green Arrow.

Oh, who am I kidding?  A middle-schooler could write this better.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I really dislike Wild Dong. I actually fast-forwarded his scenes with Diggle. WITH DIGGLE. I love Dig, but man I just can't with Rene. 

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

No, just care.  But they also didn't use love with regards Mayo or anyone else.  So there's that.

I think they are just leaving all cards on the table.   

Ugh didn't he say the same sh#t to Laurel?

You know what I just want them to kill it so I can move on!

[statsgirl]

Yep, they pretty much said that same thing about Oliver and Laurel, that they will always love each other but they're just not right for each other.

Should I be worried for Felicity's mortality now?

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ugh didn't he say the same sh#t to Laurel?

You know what I just want them to kill it so I can move on!

Yeah but their version of "clarification" was a screaming match in the hallway that ended with Oliver being SOOOO done.  This was looks of adoration. 

[popgoesculture]

2 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

I don't understand.

Olicity is so strangely written to me. The fact that Oliver has never fought for felicity, even tho he's gone on and on about her being the one, is just odd. I've never supported a couple like this. If Oliver wouldve fought for felicity that wouldve been a surprised. I don't know what he couldve done to make up for his big lie but that fact that he didnt even try is baffling to me.

This times a thousand. How am I supposed to be invested in a lead who never shows any sign of growth or change in a real way, and instead continually struggles with his dual identity? 

I just lost what little interest I had left in this show. I don't care about Felicity and the weird chemistry void that is her fake bf (I never thought I'd miss Ray, but I do!), Diggle's long talks with Wild Dog, I don't care about Oliver's Mayoring, or Thea being drafted as the newest Lance kid... These storylines are so underdeveloped.

Also, three eps ago Oliver was all for killing the bad guys... and now he leaves the one who knows his true identity (other than like the 300 other bad guys/neutral characters/etc) alive? So dumb, Arrow writers. I have reached my limit in terms of handwaving away all the plot holes. Why can't they ever think logically? Why the confusion about whose friend the "human target" dude was? Why didn't Ragman just save Wild Dog all along? Why is Digg a fugitive when his wife is the head of a super powerful, super secret gov't agency?

[Chaser]

I haven't seen the episode, just a couple Olicity clips, but I haven't changed my mind about where I think Olicity is headed. However, it has reinforced that I have no desire to watch these two move on in any way. I could just fast forward what I don't want to watch but all the BTS stuff tonight has just turned me off.

Right now I'm not in the mood for anymore Arrow.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Chaser

[Mellowyellow]

OMG! Was Felicity wearing the red coat of doom tonight?

[Mellowyellow]

Ok I just watched that last scene. Was bizarre!

I remembered when Laurel died and some people were  like "That was a weird death scene is she really dead" and then MG did an interview and was like "Oh we do a lot of deaths and this was a new way to do this death."

I wonder if this was their new "fresh" way to do a break up hence the bizarre heart eyes and looks. Maybe they were going for a contrast with Lauriver? Still a break up but a different take!

I'm just angry and grumpy! Going to tell Mr Mellowyellow to drop this show! 

[bijoux]

On the whole, this was pretty boring. I had such high expectations of Church, a normal, opportunistic villain who is just taking adantage of the shit hole that is SC. And then he was just sort of there and now he's gone. Next! Meh. I hoped there'd at least be some indication whether Prometheus knew about Oliver's identity or not.

Would someone get Billy Boy a T-shirt reading, Temporary Obstacle? That's all he is, Felicity and Oliver seemed like they would burst into a song and confess their love for each other at the end there. From Felicity's end, all I can think of was that she wants something casual. Cooper wasn't casual, and while she realized she wasn't that into Ray, I don't think she went into it with a closed mind. Maybe this is a phase she hasn't had yet. And I frankly keep hoping and guessing there is more to Malone, this can't be it. His character has to have another purpose.

I liked Carly Pope better this time around, although I was rolling my eyes at the phone number. She did however intrigue me at the end there. Bad news for Oliver, but it could make things interesting.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yep.  Oliver let him go into police custody (with some BS about how now he was in custody Oliver's secret would be safe.)  Then Prometheus stops the police convoy, kills everyone, Church tries to bargain for his life by telling him that the GA was Oliver Queen and Prometheus kills him.  Couldn't even tell if he already knew or not.  

The fast and loose (no)killing rule. No one knows which way the pendulum will swing.

2 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

Ok, I'm so sorry, but...."mortal lock"?  What does that even mean?

I just supposed it meant for life.

[Ariah]

I admit, I was not paying 100% attention to what was going on in this episode and at one point I thought Felicity was talking to a middle-aged lady - when I looked at the screen, I saw the lady had a beard and was Mayo.

Like some of you above, I concur that Human Target would have made a better Felicity-boyfriend than the vanilla detective.

(Frankly, I still don't get it why Olicity broke up. Really. I was not paying much attention back then as well, I guess.)

[Artsda]

Why is Felicity so apologetic to Oliver and worried for Oliver's feelings? It seemed like he did nothing wrong for them to end up in the position they're in when he's the entire reason she left him to date someone else. 

Church was a goner the second he found out Oliver's name. It was stupid for Oliver though to just let Church be shipped off to jail and just assume he'd keep his secret. Why would he expect to be in the clear because Church was in jail? He could still speak.

[Jediknight]

Can't believe the Arkham Knight was taking orders from Church.  Come on Jason, what would Bruce or Dick say?  Seriously Church's bodyguard was all decked out in the armor for the Arkham Knight, I'll give Arrow credit for not having 95% of the episode based around a tank.

If Christopher Chance is going to show back up, he needs to bring Guerrero and Carmine with him.  By the way, puppyCarmine is still the most adorable puppy ever in television.

[Ophanim]

Is it me, or the whole "lunch break" scene felt like emotionless, no PDA or something after sex? Ok, I know, nobody want to see THAT, but it felt cheap, like some business hook up. Probably just me...

And last talk between O/F also felt more as closure.  The end. "Let move on and never again talk about us" feeling.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, good. Another show using the amazingly lifelike masks that will fool people into thinking they're someone else!

At the beginning of the episode, I thought, okay, great, Rene is going to be a badass and withstand all of Church's torture without giving up any information. I can get behind this Rene! Then ten minutes later he was like, "Oh, by the way, Oliver, I told Church you're the Green Arrow. Oopsies?"

Farewell, Tobias Church. You were used so much better on The Wire. Plus it's hard to mourn someone who was dumb enough to give up valuable information before actually striking a deal. He kind of deserved to die.

Two best parts of this episode:
(1) Felicity putting the Oliver mask on her face and saying, "You have failed this city!"
(2) Rory asking if everyone just walks into their super secret base of operations and Felicity and Curtis saying, "YES."

Quote

I do have one major complaint: so let me get this straight, wardrobe department and director who failed to notice this; Felicity is at home, totally chillin - wearing comfy clothes, when Oliver shows up. They talk, they get the notice to go into the lair.. they do, but now she's dressed like she's heading into the office?!

I am officially sick of them dressing up Felicity all the time!! 90% of it is not necessary! I don't believe for one second that she would have stopped and said to Oliver "you go on, i'll be there in an hour, I just need to dress up and do my makeup and shit". NO!!

This really annoyed me too. Felicity was wearing pajamas and had a blanket wrapped around herself on the balcony and then BAM, she puts on a dress to go to the Batcave. What made it even worse is that according to the conversation that Diggle and Oliver had while figuring out what was going on, it was almost 4am. Yes, let me go put on a tight dress so I can sit in front of a computer at 3am.

I liked Carly Pope on Popular but everything about the reporter storyline has been lackluster for me.

[apinknightmare]

I heard the term "mortal lock" for the second time ever this morning in a podcast I listen to on my way to work. In this context it was used as "guarantee" (talking about either the Cubs or Indians winning a championship). 

[bijoux]

I have to say I really appreciated that they showed Oliver's security detail only got flesh wounds during the assasination attempt.

[apinknightmare]

4 hours ago, Artsda said:

Why is Felicity so apologetic to Oliver and worried for Oliver's feelings? It seemed like he did nothing wrong for them to end up in the position they're in when he's the entire reason she left him to date someone else.

I don't think it has anything at all to do with who was at fault in the breakup. 

Oliver was the one who didn't want to let the relationship go even after they broke up, and I think she showed the amount of sensitivity I would expect from an ex who was moving on and still wanted to remain friendly with the person they broke up with. 

[Primetimer]

But is it a good idea to let a great bad guy go just because you think the next one will be even better?

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