S05.E05: Human Target

[statsgirl]

10 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I say supposed to be since of course Oliver wasn't dead so not only was there really no tension, there wasn't even any good payoff for pretending he was dead.  It did nothing but push the plot forward so Oliver could be told that Felicity had moved on.

The Human Target could have been something really cool but instead it left me feeling, why bother?  

I get the feeling it was also supposed to be for the shock value when he was flirting with the reporter, "Oh noes!  Oliver is moving on" and then we relax when we find out it's not really Oliver, and then worry again when Oliver says at the end that he's going to explore what's next in his life.  They probably thought it was going to shock us, like the shot of Tiny Hands at the end of the premier and instead, like the hand shot, misfired into a damp squib.

Something that really bothered me was when he said "Speak of the devil" as Felicity appeared.  I get the feeling we're supposed to think of Felicity as the bad one here.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

Something that really bothered me was when he said "Speak of the devil" as Felicity appeared.  I get the feeling we're supposed to think of Felicity as the bad one here.

Or it was a meta moment, since Felicity challenged back, "What? I'm the devil now?" like the show runners were expressing their disagreement in accepting that position.  I don't love it, but between it being a really common saying and Felicity not accepting it at all, I feel marginally better about it.  

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Hiveminder said:

I actually didn't like the way that no was delivered. If she'd actually been talking to Barry or anyone else I would have been fine with it. Oliver just sounded really hopeful when he asked if she was leaving the door open, and she has to know how deeply he still loves her. It just seemed insensitive. Not that she said no, but the tone. 

I would have preferred all the undertones to be far more overt and obvious, but with what Oliver had said already, about not being sure he should even bring it up and being totally fine about her seeing someone and only hurt she hadn't told  all made his question about if she was leaving the door open seem like he was concerned about her getting the wrong idea.  So it made sense to me from Felicity's perspective to go with the super fast quick denial.  It was only then when Oliver asked if it was real that Oliver's mask really slipped and we saw how much nothing had changed feelings wise from them both, but since their issues really haven't been resolved, it's not like they were going to get back together right then anyway, so denial it is.  

[Angel12d]

So I haven't actually watched this episode yet but I have seen the Olicity scenes and I'm still wondering what about Oliver's reaction to Mayo was surprising? Because he literally did what he always does, which is say he wants Felicity to be happy and just accepts whatever. Wow, much surprise!

Laaaaaame.

[apinknightmare]

I guess maybe because he went all Hulk!Smash! on that lab table after he found out about Felicity and Ray that him not swiping a bunch of stuff off of a table is supposed to be the surprising thing?

[Angel12d]

I mean, I guess? But Hulk!Smash! aside, I saw the reactions exactly the same. In 317(?) he even asked Felicity if she was happy and said "Good, that's all I wanted for you" when she said that she was and that was it. A surprising reaction to me would've been for him to say he's still in love with her and wants her back and he'll never give up on them.

Hahahahaha. Let me dream!

Edited November 4, 2016 by Angel12d

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

I mean, I guess? But Hulk!Smash! aside, I saw the reactions exactly the same. In 317(?) he even asked Felicity if she was happy and said "Good, that's all I wanted for you" when she said she was and that was it. A surprising reaction to me would've been him to say he's still in love with her and wants her back and he'll never give up on them.

Hahahahaha. Let me dream!

I think they think it's surprising because they thought the general expectation was that he was going to be jealous and upset, but since he needs to see what's out there and slip Susan his news reel in the coming eps, SURPRISE! Thinking he'd have any feelings about it whatsoever means the joke's on you. 

[Angel12d]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think they think it's surprising because they thought the general expectation was that he was going to be jealous and upset, but since he needs to see what's out there and slip Susan his news reel in the coming eps, SURPRISE! Thinking he'd have any feelings about it whatsoever means the joke's on you. 

I know. Silly me for thinking the man who once described Felicity as "his always" would be jealous and upset about her moving on. I'm such a silly old shipper! 

[Carrie Ann]

I think you can basically replace "unexpected reaction" with "unlike normal human reaction" going forward.

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I just...Olicity is so perfect! Look at that chemistry! Look at their heart eyes! And Guggie is going on about how this shows "clarity"? The only thing thats clear is that Olicity is still amazing, their breakup is pointless and dumb, and Felicities new boyfriend is all kinds of boring.

That really WILL be a weird conversation to have when Oliver has to explain why he was wondering around Russia when he was supposed to be stranded on a dessert island. "Yeah, I really was on a deserted island...but then I ran into an Australian guy, and a bunch of mad scientists, and a hot chick, and more mad scientists, and my girlfriends sister I slept with who is now a bad ass, then I ended up in Asia for awhile working for a black ops group and saved a bunch of people but the kid I was friends with died, and then I was back on the island, and then I fell in love with another hot chick, but this one had a stupid accent and got possessed by evil or something, did I mention I found magic, and then I joined the Russian mob, and then...".  

Edited November 5, 2016 by tennisgurl

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I swear, I just...Olicity is so perfect! Look at that chemistry! Look at their heart eyes! And Guggie is going on about how this shows "clarity"? The only thing thats clear is that Olicity is still amazing, their breakup is pointless and dumb, and Felicities new boyfriend is all kinds of boring.

That really WILL be a weird conversation to have when Oliver has to explain why he was wondering around Russia when he was supposed to be stranded on a dessert island. "Yeah, I really was on a deserted island...but then I ran into an Australian guy, and a bunch of mad scientists, and a hot chick, and more mad scientists, and my girlfriends sister I slept with who is now a bad ass, then I ended up in Asia for awhile working for a black ops group and saved a bunch of people but the kid I was friends with died, and then I was back on the island, and then I fell in love with another hot chick, but this one had a stupid accent and got possessed by evil or something, did I mention I found magic, and then I joined the Russian mob, and then...".  

"And then sadly, Mayor Queen was committed to the psychiatric ward." 

[lemotomato]

Not sure which thread to leave this, but here's the breakdown of screentime for this episode:

[BkWurm1]

Thanks for posting the break down.  

I wonder how much of Oliver's numbers was actually the Human Target? Or does his 25 minutes seem low (I can't remember)

[way2interested]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Thanks for posting the break down.  

I wonder how much of Oliver's numbers was actually the Human Target? Or does his 25 minutes seem low (I can't remember)

Probably like 2-4 minutes. Last week Oliver had about 21 minutes of screen time, I believe, and one of them had him close to 30 min, so still overall on par for him. 

[AudienceofOne]

Well, I actually enjoyed that episode although count me as a viewer who doesn't know what the hell they're going for with Olicity. Am I supposed to want them back together? To move on? Am I supposed to think this break up is a bone being thrown to the Laurel lovers who are angry about her death ? I do not know.

[statsgirl]

I thought the whole scene was just tawdry and lacking class, and in there to justify Oliver sleeping around in future episodes.

What bothered me about the "I owe you" is that I still see that relationship as a result of Felicity's PTSD/guilt over Havenrock rather than anything substantial or "real" as Felicity said.  It's a help-me-get-through-the-night sort of thing because as far as I can see, she's still lying to him, she's still not letting him meet her friends and she appears to be using him as a distraction rather than for genuine feelings.  So to bring in the idea that she "owes" him for cancelling the previous night even if it was written as a joke adds a whole new level of squicks to that scene, and a patheticness of Felicity.

[joanne3482]

Hello, y'all. If your post seems to have disappeared it's because I hid everything that was on the topic of slut-shaming. 

[DeadZeus]

Hmm hope that after this episode Wild Dog will finally start respecting Oliver and stop disobeying him. It get's on my nerve that Oliver let's it slide mostly and that eventually Oliver apologises...

[BkWurm1]

Just now, DeadZeus said:

Hmm hope that after this episode Wild Dog will finally start respecting Oliver and stop disobeying him. It get's on my nerve that Oliver let's it slide mostly and that eventually Oliver apologises...

I didn't mind Oliver acknowledging his mistakes but I needed the Dong to own his AND change his attitude after that but nope.  

[tv echo]

505 (Human Target) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

505 (Human Target) – Diggle meets new recruits, Rory Regan a/k/a Ragman, and Evelyn Sharp, a/k/a Artemis:
Felicity: "Come on."
Curtis: "How's it going?"
Felicity: "I would punch this monitor if I didn't know how much it cost."
Curtis: "Also, it would probably really hurt."
Felicity: "Can you get off your feet, please?"
Curtis: "Oliver told me that you were back to work a week after you were shot by the Clock King."
Felicity: "Shot in the shoulder, not a knife in the back."
Curtis: "I don't need you to remind me. I have excruciating agony to do that. (Felicity's cell phone beeps, she sees Billy Malone's name on her screen) Who's that?"
Felicity: "Hmm? Telemarketer."
(Oliver enters, with Evelyn and Rory.)
Felicity: "Tell me you've had better luck than I've had."
Oliver: "We might have narrowed it down to the northwest part of the city."
Evelyn: "Yeah, so now we're looking for a needle in a slightly smaller haystack."
Felicity: "I will run an algorithm, cross-referencing traffic cams with probable locations."
Diggle (entering): "Wow! This place just got really crowded. (To Felicity) Hey." (He and Felicity hug)
Rory: "Do people just walk into your secret base of operations?"
Felicity and Curtis (simultaneously): "Yes."
Oliver: "This is -"
Evelyn: "Spartan...I'm guessing."
Diggle: "You guys must be the new kids on the block."
Curtis: "More like the Backstreet Boys. It was funny in my head."
Oliver: "This is Rory Regan and Evelyn Sharp."
Diggle: "John Diggle, and you are missing a man - Rene Ramirez. Lyla called in A.R.G.U.S. for the search. Unfortunately, she's turned up nothing."
Felicity: "It's going around."
Oliver: "We are gonna find Rene, and we're not gonna give up hope while we're doing it. I have an early meeting at City Hall. I will check in with everybody soon." (Leaves)
Curtis: "Is it just my imagination, or did Oliver just seem -"
Felicity: "Optimistic. That's not usually a word I'd associate with his demeanor."

505 (Human Target) – In a flashback scene where Anatoly brings Oliver before two other Bratva bosses (Viktor and Unidentified Boss) in Krasnoyarsk, Oliver formally becomes a member of Bratva and receives the code name "Kapot":
Oliver: "Anatoly, what is this?"
Anatoly: "It is time, my friend"
(Viktor speaks Russian.)
Anatoly: "English will suffice, Viktor."
Viktor: "Fine. What does Bratva mean to you, Oliver Queen?"
Oliver: "Brotherhood"
Anatoly: "Brotherhood is family. Who are yours?"
Oliver: "My father's dead. My mother and sister -"
Anatoly: "Both dead. Bratva only know their brothers. Do you know what I mean by this?"
Oliver: "I have no family. I have no home. I have no name. (Then in Russian) I am Bratva.”
(Anatoly looks at the other two Bratva bosses, who each nod.)
Anatoly (speaking Russian, with English subtitles appearing on screen): "We are Bratva. (Oliver stands up) Welcome, Kapot.” (Hugs Oliver)

505 (Human Target) – Team Arrow tries to track down Tobias Church in order to rescue Rene/Wild Dog:
(Evelyn and Rory enter empty warehouse.)
Evelyn (over comms): "We're at the latest probable, Overwatch, but it's another dead end."
Rory: "Try not to use that phrase."
Evelyn: "Is that -"
Rory: "Blood? Looks like."
Evelyn (over comms): "Scratch that. We think this is where Rene was being held."
Felicity (over comms): "Was?"
Rory (over comms): "Blood's still fresh. They must have just moved him."
Felicity (over comms): "KH-10 shows a panel van moving from that location 40 minutes ago."
Evelyn (over comms): "Can you track it?"
Felicity (over comms): "I have been able to every other time somebody asked me that question. Got it."
Rory (over comms): "Where?"
Felicity (over comms): "This is a little awkward, but Oliver made me promise that, if we got our location on Rene, I would only share it with him."
Rory (over comms): "That's actually not surprising at all."

505 (Human Target) – OTA scene:
Diggle: "Should have been out there with you tonight, Oliver."
Oliver: "Dig, you said you needed time. Don't be afraid to take it, and tonight would not have made any difference. Church didn't want to fight. He wanted to run."
Felicity: "That's because he knows killing the mayor is a lot easier than killing the Green Arrow. What? We were all thinking it."
Oliver: "I told Rene to stand down and recover. Evelyn and Rory are gonna watch Thea and Quentin in case Church tries to get me through them. How's Curtis doing?"
Felicity: "Says he wants to get back at it."
Oliver: "Then let's get him on Lyla and J.J."
Diggle: "Well, good. I'll have Felicity's back. Oliver, I know you have a security detail, but you might as well have a bull's-eye painted on your head."
Oliver: "John, I can't disappear again. I'm still dealing with the fallout from not being around when the ACU was attacked, and there is actually a rezoning vote that needs my attention."
Felicity: "Whoa. Wait. Doesn't a vote take a backseat to finding Church before he tells every criminal in the city who you are?"
Oliver: "I have security. I'll be fine."
Felicity: "Have you ever - has he ever actually said that and it turned out to be true?" (Leaves)
Oliver: "Do you agree with her?"
Diggle: "Well, I know I said it was a good idea for us to start a team, but what do we have - a Laurel Lance wannabe, a weird rag guy, a lunatic, and Curtis? Curtis just wasn't who I pictured."
Oliver: "Uh - ahem - they have potential."
Diggle: "One of them got themselves captured and gave up your name."
Oliver: "And I'd like you to debrief him."
Diggle: "Debrief him?"
Oliver: "Church told Rene that he's planning something, something big enough to involve five cities."
Diggle: "So Church just gave up his master plan?"
Oliver: "He thought Rene was gonna be dead five minutes later. Church is trying to consolidate the drug trade through Star City, but he was waiting for the Green Arrow to be gone before he made his move."
Diggle: "Okay. Well, if that's true, I think I know a way we can turn this to our advantage."
Oliver: "I'm all ears."
Diggle: "Oliver, I know a guy, very specific skill set. I think he can be here in 24 hours."

505 (Human Target) – Felicity and her boyfriend, Detective Billy Malone, have a quickie in her loft bedroom during his lunch break:
(Felicity and Malone are putting their clothes back on.)
Malone: "That was a bit more than I expected to get done on my lunch break. Is this a normal Wednesday afternoon for you?"
Felicity: "Well, I had to make up for last night. I hate canceling last minute."
Malone: "I got a feeling I'm gonna be the one canceling on you for a change. I got a promotion. I signed on with the ACU."
Felicity: "Oliver's Anti-Crime Unit."
Malone: "This isn't gonna be weird, right?"
Felicity: "Hmm?"
Malone: "Me reporting to your ex-fiance."
Felicity: "Yeah. What could possibly be weird about that?"
Malone: "Felicity?"
Felicity: "Mm-hmm?"
Malone: "Does Mayor Queen know that we're seeing each other?"
Felicity: "It really doesn't help if you call him 'Mayor Queen.'"
Malone: "Felicity?"
Felicity: "Definitely. Yeah. He's definitely - definitely aware of you."

505 (Human Target) – Christopher Chance impersonates Oliver and meets with reporter Susan Williams:
Thea: "What is Susan Williams doing in your office?"
ChanceOliver: "I agreed to an off-camera interview."
Thea: "Okay. Come here." (They enter private office)
ChanceOliver: "Okay."
Thea: "So did you go out last night as the Green Arrow and get hit really hard in the head?"
ChanceOliver: "Susan Williams is in our lives, Thea. If we don't make her an ally, then she's gonna remain an enemy."
Thea: "Okay, but she's poison."
ChanceOliver: "Well, it turns out that if you ingest small amounts of poison over time you can develop an immunity." (Leaves)
(ChanceOliver enters his mayoral office, where Susan is waiting.)
Susan: "Good morning. When I got your call last night, I thought someone in my office was playing a prank on me."
ChanceOliver: "Well, I thought Thea made a good point yesterday when she suggested that you go through the proper channels. Please." (Offers her a seat)
Susan: "Okay. The interview I had in mind was going to be on camera."
ChanceOliver: “Baby steps. May I ask you a question?"
Susan: "I don't think you understand how this interview thing works."
ChanceOliver: "Have your attacks on my administration been personal, or are they just good ratings?"
Susan: "Don't see why they can't be both. Why are you asking?"
ChanceOliver: "Because I'm trying to figure out how hard I'm gonna have to work to win you over."
Susan: "You seem like a nice guy, but you're not a real politician."
ChanceOliver: "I am underqualified. Vastly, and the city, my home, is suffering because of it. I appreciate the fact that I haven't earned your trust yet. Susan, as someone who professes to care about Star City, I think that you owe it to the people of Star City to give me an opportunity to earn that trust, and I promise you I can't do that if I'm spending all of my energy dodging all of these grenades that you're lobbying at me, so here's my idea. You give me one month with no attacks. Let me show you what I can do, and if I don't deliver... It's open season."
Susan: "One month." (Scribbles something on her business card and hands the card to him)
ChanceOliver: "What's this?"
Susan: "My personal cell."
ChanceOliver: "Why would I need that?"
Susan: "I think you can figure it out."

505 (Human Target) – Chance meets Team Arrow after faking Oliver’s “death”:
Quentin (in news conference, on computer screen): "In his too-short life, Oliver Queen experienced great hardship, but he came through the other side with a passion for service, committed to making Star City a safer place for us all to call home."
Felicity: "Wow. He really didn't say anything that nice about you when you were alive."
Oliver: "Probably didn't deserve it."
Chance (entering): "Sorry about the suit. (Removes facial prosthetic) Ahh. We haven't been properly introduced. Heads-up." (Throws facial prosthetic to Felicity)
Felicity: "Ohh!"
Chance: "Christopher Chance."
Oliver: "John referred to you as the Human Target."
Chance: "Well, that works better as a job description than it does as a nickname."
Felicity: "This is so weird. (Putting facial prosthetic over her face and using deep voice) 'You have failed this city.'"
Curtis: "Ha ha ha ha!"
Oliver: "How's Thea?"
Chance: "Uh, she's a little shaken. You know, I didn't get a chance to tell her what was gonna go down until right before."
Curtis: "She is gonna be so pissed at you."
Evelyn: "And, like, the whole city."
Rory: "They're gonna find out, though, right? I mean, you can't stay dead forever."
Oliver: "No. Just until Church makes his big move."
Felicity: "Well, that's what you're betting on now that the Green Arrow-slash-Oliver Queen is - click - dead."
Oliver: "That's the hope. Now we just need to figure out what he has planned."

505 (Human Target) – Chance tells Oliver that Felicity is seeing Detective Malone and encourages Oliver to move on:
Oliver: "So thanks for doing this."
Chance: "Being killed is basically my job."
Oliver: "But, uh, not just for taking the bullets. I - I heard that you got Kullens to cave."
Chance: "Yeah, and scored you a very pretty girl's phone number."
Oliver: "I - I heard that, too."
Chance: "No, but the truth is, you did that."
Oliver: "I was under the impression that I've been down here all day."
Chance: "I don't just put on faces, Oliver. I become my target. And to do that, I've got to learn everything there is to know about them, more than they know about themselves. I've got to become them."
Oliver: "My apologies."
Chance: "What for? Man, you got a great life. Heh. You're the mayor... But you'd still rather be the Hood than Oliver Queen."
Oliver: "Oliver Queen has - has never really been my better half."
Chance: "Nobody moves forward in life when they're hiding behind a mask. Trust me. You know, it's why you're struggling as mayor. And it's probably why you won't call that girl."
Oliver: "That's not the reason."
Chance: "Listen. I'm the last person to give dating advice, but Felicity has moved on. You should too. You didn't know. Sorry. Uh, earlier today, I met with a detective who just joined the ACU, uh, Billy Malone. He casually mentioned that he was seeing Felicity, seemed to think that you knew."

505 (Human Target) – Oliver and Felicity have a heart-to-heart talk about her dating Malone:
(Felicity is standing on the balcony of the loft at night, when Oliver literally drops down onto the balcony.)
Oliver: "Hey."
Felicity: "Hi."
Oliver: "Um, thanks for letting me swing by. I know it's - it's late."
Felicity: "You do remember that this apartment has a front door, right?"
Oliver: "Well, front doors are more for people who haven't just faked their own death."
Felicity: "Good point. So what's up? Your message sounded cryptic."
Oliver: "Sorry. I - I wasn't sure if I should say anything at all actually."
Felicity: "That couldn't wait till tomorrow?"
Oliver: "Why didn't you tell me that you were seeing someone?"
Felicity: "Well... maybe on some crazy subconscious level, I was worried you'd show up on my balcony in the middle of the night. Sorry. Snark probably isn't appropriate to hear."
Oliver: "I'm totally fine that you're seeing someone. But I'm hurt that you didn't tell me."
Felicity: "I'm sorry. I - I meant to. And then every time I went to go bring it up, I just sort of, like - I just chickened out."
Oliver: "Why? Were you - were you - were you keeping the door open for us, or -"
Felicity (quickly): "No. Of course not. No. We're - you and I work together, and I just - I didn't want to make it a thing, you know, until it was something - something... real."
Oliver: "Is it real?"
Felicity: "I don't know."
(Oliver's cell phone beeps.)
Oliver: "It's John and Rene. They have something."

505 (Human Target) – Team Arrow figures out Church’s plan: 
(Oliver, Felicity, Diggle and Rene are in the Arrow Bunker.)
Felicity: "'The Trust goes to the Brace 0-4 in 72.' Could that be any more obscure?"
Oliver: "0-4 in 72 could be the time and date. 4 a.m., 72 hours after he held Rene?"
Diggle: "Yeah, that's soon."
Rene: "And 'the Brace' is what the guys in my hood used to call the private airstrip outside Pennytown."
Felicity: "Halpin-Brace Airfield?" 
Rene: "That's the one, and this 'Trust,' I think it's the heads of the crime families that Church controls."
Felicity: "That's a bigger leap than Curtis took at the Beijing Olympics."
Rene: "When he had me dig my own grave, he talked about bringing this Trust together. That's his big play, man."
Oliver: "4 a.m.'s in 20 minutes."
Rene: "Mm-hmm."
Oliver: "Wake up the team. We don't have much time."

505 (Human Target) – Oliver and Felicity give each other the blessing to move on and date other people:
(Oliver and Chance are in the mayor's office, when Felicity enters.)
Chance: "With Church in custody, I take it that your identity's safe."
Oliver: "I hope so. Thanks for the assist and the personal insight."
Chance: "It's just part of the service. (Felicity enters) Ah. Speak of the devil."
Felicity: "Oh, am I the devil now?"
Chance: "That would definitely be my cue to leave. Take care." (Leaves)
Felicity: "Sorry to drop by unannounced."
Oliver: "It's not like you need an invitation."
Felicity: "Yeah. No. I know. I just - just between us, things have been a bit complicated - I mean, complicated's probably not the right word - it's not the wrong word."
Oliver: "I want you to be happy. And in the spirit of that, I think that you owe it to yourself to find out if what you have with Billy is... real. And I owe it to myself to embrace whatever's next for - for me when I'm not -" (Makes hand gestures like putting on hood)
Felicity: "Yes. The... Err!"
Oliver (laughing): "Yeah."
Felicity: "It's funny. That's what I came here to say to you."
Oliver: "We're usually on the same page."
Felicity: "About a lot of things. (They stare at each other for a moment) All right. Uh, heh. Mmm. Yes. I will see - I'll see you... later."
Oliver: "Mm-hmm."
Felicity: "Thank you."
Oliver: "You don't need to thank me."
Felicity: "Yeah."
Oliver: "I care about you. And I will always care about you. It's a mortal lock."

Edited March 7, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Edited version of 5x05 Olicity scene ("We're usually on the same page") without background music...

Edited May 3, 2020 by tv echo