S03.E05: P Is For Pancake

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Kelsey starts dating, but Liza and Lauren fear she's moving too fast. Also: Josh examines his relationship with Liza.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Can someone familiar with Roosevelt Island explain why everyone had such beef with it? Google was unyielding. 

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Can someone familiar with Roosevelt Island explain why everyone had such beef with it? Google was unyielding. 

I'm originally from NYC.  I think the show was attempting to make it look like Roosevelt Island is a turnoff to the young trendy set.  In the past it wasn't a hot place to live while Brooklyn and other areas have become trendy.  I was actually under the impression that Roosevelt Island was regentrifying like other parts of the city (it's technically part of Manhattan) and it wouldn't be looked at negatively anymore.  Apartment prices there are pretty high these days which would suggest it has come around.  Perhaps it doesn't have the panache of Manhattan for those so snobby that nothing else will do.  I think this is actually a function of Darren Star's typical prejudice about anywhere that isn't Manhattan.  Remember Samantha from SATC who said, "I don't do borough".  Well, I'm sure she didn't do Roosevelt Island either.  I know it's had a colorful past in the 19th and 20th centuries as a place where criminals, the insane and infirmed were quarantined, plus there are neat hospital ruins there to view while driving down the East River Drive.  So that's where it got its negative reputation from historically speaking.  But that was all long ago.  So I don't really get it either unless there's something I'm missing because I'm not a young trendy Millennial.  Perhaps there aren't enough juice bars and Shake Shacks there, who knows?  LOL

[rallymantis]

So Diana and Charles had a couple of slammin' rants that made me happy.

Tonight I was going to write a sweet little paeon of praise to Kelsey, the Doctor BF, and New Guy -- as in: "Look!! Millennials I like!  Who are charming and respectful and have some integrity!!"

Then Kelsey shut the tram door on Roosevelt Island (like she should have done on married Bjorn Bjorn after *their* first time).  And Bryce suggested the Gatsby rewrite (and I don't even like that book).  So maybe I need another week.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think part of the anti-Roosevelt Island stuff was the typical laziness about not wanting to travel and snobbery about anything that's outside of their own part of Manhattan. Remember on Seinfeld when Kramer's girlfriend moved downtown and he decided he had to break up with her because it was too far away? And when Elaine changed her phone number and got stuck with the new area code? She met a guy, gave him her phone number, and as soon as he saw the area code, he changed his mind. Plus there's the age old derision for anyone who lives in New Jersey and the entire bridge and tunnel crowd. Everyone wants to think that wherever they are is the best place to be and everywhere else sucks.

To be fair, it's not just New Yorkers who do that. I think it's common in a lot of big cities for people to be kind of snotty about anyone who doesn't live right in the city. I live in Berkeley and there are lots of people who live in San Francisco who refuse to cross the bridge for just about anything (despite the fact that a lot of awesome things happen on the other side of the bridge, like Prince playing his Piano and a Microphone tour at two different venues in Oakland).

On a related note, I want to know how Kelsey can afford the rent on her apartment. Wasn't she living with Thad? Now that he's gone, how can she handle the rent on her own? She can't be making THAT much at Empirical. And does Lauren still live with her parents? I feel like if you are living with your mom and dad, you shouldn't be snarking on someone who BOUGHT his own place. I'm guessing that Maggie can afford her place because she's probably lived there forever and it's rent controlled.

Does this mean we're finally rid of Bryce? Please don't let that "my lawyers will be in touch" comment mean that there's going to be a lawsuit and we will have to keep seeing Bryce's annoying ass.

What I found the most disappointing about this storyline is that the publishing industry IS in decline and it would be nice to see that addressed on a more practical level instead of Bryce trying to make totally radical changes (like changing the end of The Great Gatsby). I think that the Millennial imprint is a good step in trying to address how to reach a younger audience and that having younger staff members like Kelsey tell people like Diana that it's important to have a presence on the latest social media platform is helpful, but they need more than that to stay alive long term. They could have used this storyline to explore that but instead we just got Bryce being a dismissive jerk.

Diana looked so much younger in that other outfit! I loved that it was more current but still age appropriate (aka it wasn't the kind of outfit you'd see on a Jerry Springer episode of "tell my mom to quit dressing like she's in high school!"). I was disappointed to see her revert back to her more conservative look at the end of the episode.

Meanwhile, Liza looked like a cross between a flapper and a go go dancer in that white fringed shirt, booty shorts, and thigh high white boots. But she looked hot and I'll take that over the 80s blouse with jean shortalls combo from last week.

Even though it is easier to get pregnant in your 20s (and geriatric pregnancy is anyone over 35), I know several women over 35 who got pregnant (naturally, without any fertility drugs - and in some cases it was unintentional) without any complications or health issues for the mother or the baby. My cousin and his wife have two kids and they thought they were done having kids but then she got pregnant unexpectedly earlier this year and the baby was born just a few weeks before her 40th birthday. Another friend of mine didn't intend to have kids and then last year she got pregnant (very unexpectedly and unintentionally) at the age of 41. I also know several women who got married in their mid-30s and then got pregnant within a year of trying (without any drugs or other fertility methods other than a lack of contraception). It's definitely more common to have fertility issues the older you are, but it's not as bad as the doctors at the party made it sound.

Edited October 27, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Snarklepuss]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think part of the anti-Roosevelt Island stuff was the typical laziness about not wanting to travel and snobbery about anything that's outside of their own part of Manhattan. Remember on Seinfeld when Kramer's girlfriend moved downtown and he decided he had to break up with her because it was too far away? And when Elaine changed her phone number and got stuck with the new area code? She met a guy, gave him her phone number, and as soon as he saw the area code, he changed his mind. Plus there's the age old derision for anyone who lives in New Jersey and the entire bridge and tunnel crowd. Everyone wants to think that wherever they are is the best place to be and everywhere else sucks.

I agree concerning some usual Manhattan-centric snobbery but the way they all acted on this episode, you'd think the guy lived in Staten Island or something, LOL.  Now THAT I would have believed.  It was just a little OTT for Roosevelt Island, IMO.  A mild "ewww" would have been more realistic.  It's only one short stop away on the F line, not completely downtown to Kramer's way uptown.  Their reaction was to me a little outdated.  Regarding the Seinfeld episode that was an exaggeration but in the 20 or so years since then perceptions have changed and more neighborhoods in Manhattan have become trendier.  Back in the Seinfeld days Harlem would have been completely unacceptable to the snobby/trendy set, while now it's regentrifying and more affordable so young people tend to view it more positively.  I would have a hard time believing that the young people on this show would be able to afford to live in the areas of Manhattan where they would have any kind of negative attitude about other areas of Manhattan, even Roosevelt Island, and especially any area that was newly up and coming.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[Snarklepuss]

I've been posting for two seasons on how Diana's wardrobe ages her on this show which became obvious now with her wardrobe change in that one scene.  I actually think aging her is intentional.  Diana wants to give off an air of experience and power, not youth or soft femininity.  Those ginormous in-your-face statement necklaces are akin to the power tie for men.   Too bad it comes at a price as she needs some softness to attract a man.  Those necklaces and her demeanor says, "stay away".  In that younger outfit she was far more approachable.

I never thought Bryce was going to be a permanent fixture on the show.  I had a feeling he was going to be a plot device for Charles to stand up to, to earn even more of Liza's admiration and respect.  I thought she was going to be the one to tell him that Bryce was fixing to fire all the "older" people but as it happens Charles stepped up to the plate all by himself.  Nice.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Snarklepuss

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It's definitely more common to have fertility issues the older you are, but it's not as bad as the doctors at the party made it sound.

The doctors at the party were all young, and I think those comments were more about their attitude toward aging. You know, "Old people. Ew."

6 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I never thought Bryce was going to be a permanent fixture on the show. 

Same here. Even as a supporting character, he was astonishingly annoying. He also missed the point about "P is for Pigeon" being on the longlist for the Man Booker Prize. (I loved Diana losing it in the meeting when he was being dense about the book.) I hope he's gone for good.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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I would have a hard time believing that the young people on this show would be able to afford to live in the areas of Manhattan where they would have any kind of negative attitude about other areas of Manhattan, even Roosevelt Island, and especially any area that was newly up and coming.

I was willing to believe that Kelsey and Thad could afford a nice place together, mostly because he made a shitload of money. But now that he's gone, I don't understand how she can afford to stay there with only her salary. Maybe her family is loaded and her parents are paying part of her rent now? I remember Kelsey and Liza had a sleepover at Lauren's parents' place which made me think that Lauren still lived at home. Josh's situation seems the most realistic because his place is small and not fancy and he still splits the rent with roommate(s). I definitely remember the one roommate who went to the music festival with Josh and Liza, but there was another guy who used to hang out there all the time. I can't remember if he was another roommate or just a friend.

[EdnasEdibles]

Sometimes I hate how much they age Diana. You can't make me think that she's good at her job while also making me believe she is in charge of marketing but does not know how to set up google alerts. That's insane. 

[dubbel zout]

46 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Lauren still lived at home

She does, proudly.

I work in publishing and think Diana looks right for her age and job level. Not everyone wears pajama shorties to work like Kelsey does. (WTF were those? We talk about Liza's wardrobe, but Kelsey gets some wowzers, too.)

Edited October 27, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Packerbrewerbadger]

I think it's ridiculous that they make Diana so oblivious to social media, etc.  it's not like it dropped out of the sky yesterday!  I'm retired and almost 65, but can handle most of it.

I disagree about no punctuation ( unless limited space).  I don't tweet, but when people don't use punctuation on Facebook especially, I think it makes them look ignorant.  And it doesn't take that much longer to punctuate on texts.  It can definitely change the meaning to a sentence !

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Kelsey and Lauren both lived at Lauren's parents. Kelsey just spent nights at Thad's. I assume she's back there now. 

From the way everyone went on about Roosevelt Island, I assumed he was on day pass from a residential treatment facility a la David Duchovny's character in S6 of Sex and the City. Not to offend anyone with mental health issues, but I'd be scared off pursuing a relationship with someone dealing with treatment at that level. But instead he just...lives in an untrendy neighborhood? And HE'S the Bad Pancake? Kelsey, you LIVE with SOMEONE ELSE'S parents. YOU are the Bad Pancake. 

[Britty]

It seemed out of character for the ladies to completely dismiss the guy because of where he lived. This was a hot guy with a cool job that they all thought was great. Wouldn't hyper-trendy Lauren want to know if Roosevelt Island was the newest, hottest, coolest, unheard of, up and coming place to live?  It's not like he said he lived in his Mom's basement in Jersey City. Although, as a traveling journalist, would that even be that bad?

This show is really starting to feel lost and clunky. It's like no one had any clue how to hold it together after the first season. Just a vague idea that Liza and Charles should eventually end up together while all those silly young people and their crazy gadgets and technology complicate things. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Lauren is the worst.

I've always loved Diana's clothes.  I think I like "old lady" style.  I wear Chanel and Givenchy perfume and have since I was a teenager so I've gotten those comments before.  LOL

I think Hillary Duff was once naturally beautiful but something about her new teeth (?) or fillers (?) and eyes and eye makeup always make her look really off/fake to me.  It's distracting.

Liza dresses totally fucking ridiculously, but that's vintage Patricia Field.  Sometimes I love it, sometimes I hate it, but it's always courageous.  Carrie Bradshaw Season 3 was such a nightmare for me, but I'm okay with the other SATC seasons fashion-wise.  Patricia Field is her own woman on her own planet.

Josh and Liza feel passion-less and romance-less.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[txhorns79]

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Diana looked so much younger in that other outfit! I loved that it was more current but still age appropriate (aka it wasn't the kind of outfit you'd see on a Jerry Springer episode of "tell my mom to quit dressing like she's in high school!").

I thought the outfit was age appropriate, but those jeans were not doing her legs any favors. 

Quote

But instead he just...lives in an untrendy neighborhood? And HE'S the Bad Pancake? Kelsey, you LIVE with SOMEONE ELSE'S parents. YOU are the Bad Pancake. 

 

Yeah, I wasn't thrilled with that storyline.  He's good looking, nice and apparently stable enough to own property.  He even said he would wait for Kelsey while she got over her issues!  You'd have to be an idiot to throw that away for such a stupid reason, like Kelsey did. 

Quote

Meanwhile, Liza looked like a cross between a flapper and a go go dancer in that white fringed shirt, booty shorts, and thigh high white boots. But she looked hot and I'll take that over the 80s blouse with jean shortalls combo from last week.

 

I think you nailed it with the go go dancer look, but it wasn't really flapper-ish.  It was a ridiculous look for work, especially since she was wearing black bike shorts underneath the mini that you could see, which I thought defeated the purpose of the outfit.  I mean, if you are going to make the look more modest, why wear such a short dress to begin with?  

I do wish we got a little more of Maggie's storyline.  I feel like Debi Mazar is very underused.    

[Adultosaurus]

Disappointed that Lex from OMO was a one and done...sad for him being the bad pancake.  WHAT was Kelsey's outfit in the last scene with Bryce/Charles...it was like 50's shortie pajamas but for a 3 year old.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Adultosaurus
hit enter too soon

[Hanahope]

I didn't understand why Maggie wanted to dump her sauce when she thought the other woman wasn't gay.

thanks for the explanation about Roosevelt island. I didn't know anything about it.

i got pregnant at 39 and again at 42 without any problems or drugs. Maybe it helped that my husband is younger than me.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

She made the sauce with sausage and the other woman is an Orthodox Jew, who, presumably, doesn't eat pork. 

[Armchair Critic]

8 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think Hillary Duff was once naturally beautiful but something about her new teeth (?) or fillers (?) and eyes and eye makeup always make her look really off/fake to me

For me it's her dark roots, they are doing her no favors

[tennisgurl]

Oh, please tell me that Bryce is gone forever! I am so over that D List Zuckerburg clone. Can we get the Youtube girl from last week back? 

This episode started out alright, but the whole "Oh my God, he`s from Roosevelt Island! He`s a leper!" thing, which was bizarre to me even before I read here about why Roosevelt Island was apparently so awful. Maybe because I have never lived in NYC, but, to me, dumping a perfect guy because of the neighborhood he happens to live in is beyond stupid and shitty. It just makes Kelsey look like a jerk and an idiot. If thats the only reason you dump a great guy, you dont deserve him anyway. 

I like Lauren's doctor boyfriend, but I`m sure they will give him some stupid flaw soon for Lauren to dump him over. Sorry if I sound bitter, but this Roosevelt island thing is just pissing me off.

Couldn't they deal with the issues of publishing in the 21 century without a strawman young person who wants to change the ending of The Great Gatsby and turn all books into apps? Couldn't they actually deal with how the publishing industry could try to stay relevant with young people? 

[Hanahope]

12 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

She made the sauce with sausage and the other woman is an Orthodox Jew, who, presumably, doesn't eat pork. 

Ah, I missed that.  

[txhorns79]

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Couldn't they deal with the issues of publishing in the 21 century without a strawman young person who wants to change the ending of The Great Gatsby and turn all books into apps? Couldn't they actually deal with how the publishing industry could try to stay relevant with young people? 

I would have liked it if they had made the character a little more complex and less overtly antagonistic.  He was actually right that the company has to be open to new ideas and adapt to a new business environment, but he was such a terrible character all that got lost.      

Quote

She made the sauce with sausage and the other woman is an Orthodox Jew, who, presumably, doesn't eat pork. 

 

Good point, but why didn't Maggie just say that, instead of acting like a complete weirdo about the sauce? 

[dubbel zout]

30 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I would have liked it if they had made the character a little more complex and less overtly antagonistic.  He was actually right that the company has to be open to new ideas and adapt to a new business environment, but he was such a terrible character all that got lost.

I agree. Bryce's "my way or the highway" attitude wasn't going to win him any fans at Empirical. His total lack of respect for books in and of themselves was another problem. They will never be obsolete. Technology will change how reading is done, but printed matter will always be available. What other medium for reading can last as long? (Assuming proper storage, of course.) It's technology-proof that way. 

31 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Good point, but why didn't Maggie just say that, instead of acting like a complete weirdo about the sauce? 

She was too surprised, most likely.

[rallymantis]

Right before he appeared on the SATC ep today, I went, "Oh my gosh; Charles is David!!" -- the good-looking son of one of the women at the synagogue who strikes out with Charlotte just before Harry proposes.

He has aged well, but dayum! he was always pretty.

[aradia22]

I loved the song playing when Diana got out of the elevator. I'm waiting for one of those websites to tell me the name of it.

Diana snapping at Bryce was great but I still think they're underutilizing Miriam Shor. Also, Bryce continues to be a dick and yes, at this point it is insulting to millennials, people with autism, tech guys... 

Does anyone else think that party was really lame? They very quickly flashed to mostly people sitting around and a group of people dancing in the corner. 

I can't see him as Lucas. He's Lex to me. Oh, well. He didn't really live up to his cuteness potential anyway. I kind of lost a bit of respect for Kelsey this episode. Not because of the sexual freedom but because she was taking Lauren's childish advice way too seriously. Why are you letting her run your life?

The after 35/interns/pregnancy thing came out of nowhere. I'm not sure I needed it or that the episode needed it. Sure, they've discussed it in a previous season in passing when Liza was worried about the age difference but unless this is sowing the seeds for something, I don't know why the writers brought it up again unless it was to backtrack. My memory is that last time Liza was more open to the idea of maybe having another child but maybe I've got that wrong. Also, that whole thing with the interns oversimplified the situation and also stereotyped medical professionals but I also can't say it's entirely incorrect and it kind of makes sense for interns specifically to be less sympathetic to older women who've deferred having children coming in and yes, admittedly having unreasonable expectations about solutions to infertility.

I loved the return of the "real" Diana in her jungle green silk shirt.

Bryce is a dick. It has nothing to do with being "on the spectrum." He's been written as a smug, stubborn, and self-important little shit. Someone truly devoted to logic and reason and understanding would be receptive to other ideas and be willing to admit the possibility that he could be wrong. He's a petty little dictator.

[aradia22]

Quote

What I found the most disappointing about this storyline is that the publishing industry IS in decline and it would be nice to see that addressed on a more practical level instead of Bryce trying to make totally radical changes (like changing the end of The Great Gatsby).

I feel like when the show tries to snark on real things they don't do it very well. (See: Marie Kondo, youtubers getting book deals) I wonder if this was supposed to be a nod at the Pride and Prejudice and Zombies kinds of books or more recently that book that's a choose your own adventure version of Romeo and Juliet. Regardless, it just seems to show that though Bryce thinks he's brilliant for all his "disruptive" ideas, they're really just shallow. If Gatsby lives HEA what was the point? Is Bryce like those people who watch Scarface and think Al Pacino's character is a role model? That's the vibe I got.

Reading this thread I wonder if the Roosevelt Island thing didn't work because it felt like a recycled SATC plotline which makes it dated for a 2016 show.

I do think it's possible that printed books will become largely obsolete aside from textbooks and public libraries but yeah, Bryce wasn't the right character to convey that message. Personally, aside from the books I already own, I've largely moved to e-books unless I'm buying something I need a hard copy of (book signing, coffee table book with photos, etc.) or it's cheaper used on amazon (which isn't really making anyone much money). When you live in a small apartment, it doesn't make sense to have a lot of physical books taking up space that are either going to collect dust or start falling apart from re-reading.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

I think the Roosevelt Island thing doesn't work because Star did that sanctimonious New Yorker thing where it's assumed that NYC is so important to the cultural consciousness things that are common knowledge there are somehow relevant to the rest of the country. Whatever joke he tried to make fell flat because he didn't feel the need to set it up. 

Then again, it's also just an incredibly stupid reason to dump someone. 

[Snarklepuss]

27 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I think the Roosevelt Island thing doesn't work because Star did that sanctimonious New Yorker thing where it's assumed that NYC is so important to the cultural consciousness things that are common knowledge there are somehow relevant to the rest of the country. Whatever joke he tried to make fell flat because he didn't feel the need to set it up.

Not to mention that the old stereotypical Manhattan myopia is kind of dated now that there are other trendy boroughs and areas in the greater NY area.

Let's see, in this episode we had insults to Millennials with autism, women over 35 who want to have children and older people who still value books.  I'm just getting tired of all the usage of stereotypes in a lame attempt at humor.  SATC had some of that but at least there it felt more relevant then and hence funny.  I feel like its usage here is either overstated, outdated or mostly in the producer's imagination and therefore just not hitting that "yeah, that's how it is" funny bone.

[TVForever]

4 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I think the Roosevelt Island thing doesn't work because Star did that sanctimonious New Yorker thing where it's assumed that NYC is so important to the cultural consciousness things that are common knowledge there are somehow relevant to the rest of the country. Whatever joke he tried to make fell flat because he didn't feel the need to set it up. 

Then again, it's also just an incredibly stupid reason to dump someone. 

Especially ironic, since Josh, Liza, and Maggie live in one of those neighborhoods that were once on the no-go lists for the hip and trendy. It probably means something that the Rossevelt Island thing was an issue for the two Manhattanites, Kelsey and Lauren, but if Star was determined to go there, it would have been a nice twist to bring the Brooklynites into the discussion at least acknowledging that they are living in one of those formerly reviled( and now almost TOO hip) 'hoods.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The paper books versus E-books thing is not necessarily an age thing in my experience.  I'm an old Millennial where some people around my age were extremely insulted when I said a lot of the physical book industry is dying.  Unfortunately it's a fact.

I don't mean to upset anyone.  Major book chains are closing, period.  The World's Biggest Bookstore here in Canada (I doubt it actually literally was) closed after many years and a manager at a major Canadian book chain (well the only Canadian book chain I know of) told me their brand is now focusing 90% on home decor (that was 5 years ago).

But sure, a lot of people love physical books. I'm one of those VERY people.  But I'm trying to face reality.  I have an E-reader and I love it but, when I really love a book, or want a coffee table book for the pictures, or want a book as part of a collection, then I'm going to buy the physical book.  But a lot of people out there won't.  Heck, I assume the majority of the population never did.  (I worked at a book chain for a few years and constantly encountered the same tiny population of book-buyers, versus people who wandered in at Christmas and said things like "I want to buy the Blue book."  Meaning a new book they saw advertised, that has a blue cover).  I don't think people have to take this kind of fact as insulting.  There will always be some use for physical books  - at least I think so - I don't think I can declare anything either way for certain.  As someone said upthread, the 'technology' of a physical book never fails.  It's super frustrating when my E-book's battery goes dead!  So I like to bring physical books with me on trips.

But yeah, I get why people didn't like Bryce as a character.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[dubbel zout]

I have no doubt whatsoever that Bryce would be annoying no matter what sort of company he bought. 

[holly4755]

Personally, I always thought Roosevelt Island was kind of nice, surrounded by water, I think it would have nicer views in some buildings than in the city proper. And it does not take long to get there, near the upper east side, near greenery. lots of plusses.

So bah to you, Kelsey, for dumping him - and what is the point of having sex with someone you are dumping?   Unless you think you are a prostitute and you owe him something for dinner, with no self respect, why do it? 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

She slept with him because she wanted to sleep with a guy she didn't care about for her first foray into dating following Thad's death. That way she wouldn't screw up her next relationship. Only in her mindset, I'm not saying it's a viewpoint I agree with, although in general there's nothing wrong for people having casual sex, Kelsey was wrong for sleeping with someone under the pretense she liked him. 

[holly4755]

I am not sure you have to go as far as sex with the pancake. At least we did not see an audience ON the tram although they are pretty visible in the sky. 

I have to admit, I never lived in Manhattan. When I was starting out, it was cheaper to live in Weehawken overlooking Manhattan, it was closer to work than most of my friends who lived up or down town and the taxi fare was not as expensive even though I had to pay both ways and the tunnel toll. That was long ago when it was like a dollar to get through the Lincoln tunnel.   Also the bus ran at least once an hour all night and like every 5 minutes during the day and evening, before they started shutting down the bus station at night.  I basically had less a commute than anyone who didn't live in Gramercy park. Plus I had a lot of interesting conversations on the bus with Jazz musicians who also discovered that location.

I think the snobbiness exhibited in this show might be afforded by people who start out with large college debt, so saving is not a great priority and debt is not a fearful thing.  

[dcalley]

On 10/30/2016 at 5:28 PM, holly4755 said:

Personally, I always thought Roosevelt Island was kind of nice, surrounded by water, I think it would have nicer views in some buildings than in the city proper. And it does not take long to get there

The tram ride is less than 5 minutes, right? So did they ride it back and forth a few times, or just the once?

The pregnancy stuff makes me groan because I fear a pregnancy storyline. The episode before this one seemed to indicate that Liza was not on the pill.

Edited November 2, 2016 by dcalley

[Ailianna]

Can I just say that I find the whole "bad pancake" theory flawed, since I always love the first pancake.  In the hands of a reasonably competent cook, it's the best.  It has a little sharp crispy edge that only comes from being first, and no other pancake has it.  But then it's just a redone metaphor for a rebound boyfriend, so I'm guessing there's no depth to it.  I am just surprised so many people seem to have a bad impression of the first pancake.

[aradia22]

@Ailianna Not to derail but I don't think it comes out of nowhere. Something similar gets mentioned in the Alton Brown episode on crepes. I think it's less about being a competent cook and more about getting everything right. Like, you don't know if the pan is exactly the right temperature yet and after the first one, you'll have the right amount of butter or whatever. So it makes sense as a metaphor even if I don't think you should live your life listening to vague, catchy advice.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 11/2/2016 at 3:47 PM, dcalley said:

The tram ride is less than 5 minutes, right? So did they ride it back and forth a few times, or just the once?

The pregnancy stuff makes me groan because I fear a pregnancy storyline. The episode before this one seemed to indicate that Liza was not on the pill.

Please, no pregnancy plot or pregnancy scare plot. 

[FurryFury]

On 03.11.2016 at 1:54 PM, Ailianna said:

Can I just say that I find the whole "bad pancake" theory flawed, since I always love the first pancake.  In the hands of a reasonably competent cook, it's the best.  It has a little sharp crispy edge that only comes from being first, and no other pancake has it.  But then it's just a redone metaphor for a rebound boyfriend, so I'm guessing there's no depth to it.  I am just surprised so many people seem to have a bad impression of the first pancake.

In my language, there's a really well-known saying about the first pancake, even :)

[dcalley]

3 hours ago, FurryFury said:

In my language, there's a really well-known saying about the first pancake, even :)

If you're willing, please share, in both your language and in English!

[FurryFury]

All right :) It's in Russian. It's "Первый блин комом" (pronounced like "Perviy blin komom") which is literally translated as "The first pancake is always lumpy/a blob/botched/spoiled" and means something like "The first try always fails", or "The first try is bound to be a flop".

Edited November 13, 2016 by FurryFury

[MYOS]

I think you'd like Lane Smith's _It's  a book!_ It's adorable and great in many ways, for kids and adults.

I spend time in France and e-books are not very popular there. Physical books are.

It's always interesting to compare airport selections at Charles de Gaulle and at Logan, Dulles, or Philly.

Book prizes are top of the headline news, supermarkets carry the equivalent of Pulitzers, and they have a "Back to business" time for books (also for politicians, it coincides with the national day for back to school); it's called "la rentrée littéraire" and is as ubiquitous in late August/early September as "Summer style" issues in April.  The "French literature" exam that the top 50% students take was 2 days ago and had the following topics: "Human nature since Renaissance in French literature" using excerpts from Montaigne, Rousseau, Voltaire, and Yourcenar (they had 4 hours to come up with a 3-part literary essay covering nearly all points linked to the topic as presented in the texts as well as using their personal forays into literature).  Less academically enclined students had this topic "Poetic writing and the quest for meaning", with a bunch of texts and specific questions to answer. I have no idea whether French people read more than Americans but at least they pretend to :D.

They also have a law whereby books must be sold for the same cost everywhere, no discount. Amazon, supermarkets, and chains can sell slightly discounted books compared to independent or chain bookstores (-5%) but have conditions on shipping free. The law is very old, like from the early 80s, and is unrelated to ebooks; it's entirely designed to protect mom-and-pop business v. giant corporations. The main complaint is that no such law existed about record stores because today most music is purchased online or in supermarkets. If people want cheaper books they can buy them used.

It's very different from the US situation, where Barnes and Noble used to be decried and seen as the enemy of small bookstores (I liked them but hated another chain, forgot its name now...) and now people are happy if they find one because so many physical bookstores have closed. I really disliked the way the small bookstore storyline went BTW. Even if turning it down was in character for Bryce, the ending was very unsatisfying.

Is it allowed for modest Orthodox women to be gay? (Just curious, hoping I'm not offensive). I hope Maggie's happy.

My understanding is that the girls saw Roosevelt Island as "tainted" due to being where psychiatric cases were/are sent. But just the tram and all would be fantastic. Plus I agree with everyone above: that's a stooopid reason to dump a guy. Kelsey isn't just snobbish, she's prejudiced.

Do we know where they went to school? Because I could see colleges like Sarah Lawrence, Barnard, Skidmore, Bard, Wesleyan floating around. (So far they've referenced Columbia, which is lazy. And Kelsey would not be super impressed with Engineering from Fu, she'd be more impressed with someone who went through the Core or someone with a non professional major.)