S01.E03: The Stray

[Hanahope]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

12 hours ago, djsunyc said:

as the oldest host, it's a bit twisted and fucked up to have her be raped everynight.  ford obviously has no sentimentality.

That's not what has been happening to Delores. Her storyline had her arriving back at the ranch with Teddy, who takes down the bad guys. So, unless there was a guest such as TMIB, with different ideas, that's how it always played out. With Teddy now detoured  into a different storyline, she is at greater risk; or would be, if she hadn't learned to defend herself.

I believe that Delores' story line is set to run that she goes into town, buys supplies, goes painting, goes home and finds her home attacked and she is attacked.  She may be raped, or she may escape her rapist and is shot.  It seemed like the host that tried to rape her wasn't originally part of that story line, as he was with the guy that had shot up a bunch of other hosts and taken out.  So usually, it appears that she's shot and killed.  

The story can alter based on if she meets with someone in town.  If its Teddy (if he hasn't been pulled off story), the hang out together, go to her house, and Teddy kills the outlaws, possibly also dying.  Its unclear what happens to Delores if there's not another guest along.

If she doesn't meet Teddy, but meets another guest, perhaps they hang out together, she takes him home, and the guest kills the outlaws, surviving.  Again, we don't know exactly what happens to Delores after that, it likely depends on the guest.

Delores' story does seem to run on just a day loop. If she isn't otherwise comandeered by a guest, she'll do the same thing every day.  Go to town, get supplies, go paint, go home.  Teddy's does do, he arrives, meets Delores in town, hang out, go to her home to die.  It looked like Teddy had been taken by a guest from the day before to do bounty hunting stuff, since instead of being on the train that morning, he was with a female guest hunting bandits.

But now someone has put in the gun for Delores.  I thought when we saw that episode of her finding the gun last week it was Bernard's voice, but I'm not sure.  Maybe it was Ford.  When she was holding the gun on the other host, she blipped over to MIB and heard a voice saying "kill him".  Was that Ford's voice, telling her to kill the MIB?  Was that a real gun that could have killed him?  Is Ford trying to kill the MIB because he's Arnold? Maybe Arnold has it in for Delores because she's the oldest host, something he worked on that Ford corrupted when Ford tried to get rid of Arnold, and that's why he likes to rape Delores, because she represents Ford to him?  Was this a "practice" session to see if Delores would shoot the gun, with Ford hoping MIB will come back to her, since he's obviously done it several times before?

So if Teddy was all chopped up, can he be put back together again?

If that was guests wielding the axes, would they have killed another guest?  Or was it really just hosts that had been programed to allow axes, as someone said above, it was a "challenge" level that required a group, not solo play. So they would not chase her, but just kill the host with her.

I agree with another poster above, that while its nice to see a good level of homosexuality (at least on the women's side, the men's side was pretty sparce), still haven't seen any guest women indulging in host men. 

I didn't see any real mark on William after he got "hit" by the one bad guy host.  I wonder what kind of "bullet" they use.  Obviously something that knocked him off his feet, but didn't do any real damage.

[kay1864]

36 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

It seemed like the host that tried to rape her wasn't originally part of that story line, as he was with the guy that had shot up a bunch of other hosts and taken out.  

Were there any guests in that scene?  Why would a storyline play out if there are no guests to see it?

I've seen posts about the MiB raping Dolores.  Do we know that has in fact happened?  AFAIK we've seen him drag her into the barn, and then (this week) pull a knife on her (in what appears to be the same scene).

39 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I didn't see any real mark on William after he got "hit" by the one bad guy host.  I wonder what kind of "bullet" they use.  Obviously something that knocked him off his feet, but didn't do any real damage.

There was only a red mark like a bruise.  An EW article quoted the show creators saying it was like a paintball.  Stings but no lasting damage.

[Paws]

Quote

I've seen posts about the MiB raping Dolores.  Do we know that has in fact happened?  AFAIK we've seen him drag her into the barn, and then (this week) pull a knife on her (in what appears to be the same scene).

I thought maybe he scalped her, or did something else to figure out her programming. Not rape.

[dmc]

I can't over how horrible this them park seems and not in the violent sense but in the boring sense. I am with William...how many robots can you hook up with...

[TVHappy9463]

I'm calling it now. They are all androids, and the last shot will be the camera pulling back form a snow globe that an autistic child is playing with.  

[numbnut]

19 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Why would a storyline play out if there are no guests to see it?

I think the hosts are programmed to do their storylines regardless of the guests. The guests can wander into any host scenario at any point as they roam the park.

Edited October 17, 2016 by numbnut

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Ariah said:

How is Dolores able to leave her storyline to have a chat with Bernard and then come back? 

I believe that happens during scheduled down-time.  When she is being serviced, recharged, cleaned, etc.  My question is:  Why is she fully dressed?  Hosts seen in the underworld (for want of a better name) are usually disrobed.  And Ford makes an issue of it, indicating that it isn't really optional, but a deliberate way to dehumanize the hosts in the eyes of the human workers.

 

1 hour ago, Paws said:

MOstly  I am very irritated that they never show women trying to have their way with James Marsden because holy smokes he is just way too good looking.

Can't answer to that, but I was pleased to see Teddy's "dickless" human partner in the bounty-hunting business, this episode.

[Hanahope]

16 minutes ago, kay1864 said:

Were there any guests in that scene?  Why would a storyline play out if there are no guests to see it?

I think there are some story lines that do play out even if no guest is there to see it.  

[henripootel]

7 minutes ago, dmc said:

I can't over how horrible this them park seems and not in the violent sense but in the boring sense. I am with William...how many robots can you hook up with...

I can't get over the economics of WW.   There don't seem to be all that many guests (I mean compared to Disney world) and even at 40k a day, the park must be horrifically expensive to maintain.  I would presume too that, in a world with realistic androids, I'm betting there's a consumer-level model, or at least a plenty of rent-a-robots for far less than 40k a day.  No need to go all the way to WW if all you want to do is fuck a robot.  

Also, who do the robots play out scenarios if there aren't any humans around?  Have we not seen them shootin' and rapin' when there isn't a guest there to witness it?  Presumably the park tracks guests carefully (for safety and whatnot) so why not power down the bits when there's no one nearby?  Surely a guest doesn't follow Dolores home every single night.  It'd save a lot on energy and bullet repair.  

[Netfoot]

11 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Also, who do the robots play out scenarios if there aren't any humans around?  Have we not seen them shootin' and rapin' when there isn't a guest there to witness it?  Presumably the park tracks guests carefully (for safety and whatnot) so why not power down the bits when there's no one nearby?  Surely a guest doesn't follow Dolores home every single night.  It'd save a lot on energy and bullet repair.  

I think the loops play out, whether there are human participants or not.

The stage will get robbed, even if no humans have elected to ride the stage, and no humans have agreed to join the robbers.  No stage robbery, no posse to go hunt down the crooks.  And they won't simply shut down for a while and then pretend it happened.  Some human observer riding the range might see the stage in sleep-mode at a distance.  This would break full immersion.  If the robbery takes place as usual, the unscheduled human observer might ride up with six-guns blazing, drive off the baddies, and start smooching the bot in the stagecoach!

The hosts have been programmed to do the loop, so they just let them do it, rather than introduce alternate programming.  I don't think it's so unreasonable.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Netfoot

[patty1h]

During the gunfight out in the desert with Teddy, there was this loud noise that came out of nowhere and a bunch of people reacted to. It sounded like a loud roar, which made me think of Lost and that frigging monster in the woods. WTH was that supposed to be?

Please don't let those Lost writers start throwing in weird crap like invisible monsters on top of the creepy robots.

[dmc]

36 minutes ago, henripootel said:

I can't get over the economics of WW.   There don't seem to be all that many guests (I mean compared to Disney world) and even at 40k a day, the park must be horrifically expensive to maintain.  I would presume too that, in a world with realistic androids, I'm betting there's a consumer-level model, or at least a plenty of rent-a-robots for far less than 40k a day.  No need to go all the way to WW if all you want to do is fuck a robot.  

Also, who do the robots play out scenarios if there aren't any humans around?  Have we not seen them shootin' and rapin' when there isn't a guest there to witness it?  Presumably the park tracks guests carefully (for safety and whatnot) so why not power down the bits when there's no one nearby?  Surely a guest doesn't follow Dolores home every single night.  It'd save a lot on energy and bullet repair.  

This too and how to they keep the stories separate when at any time guests could intersect and potentially change the user experience.  I think is why they don't have a lot of guests...but to your point...how are they paying for it.

From what I have seen your options are robot hookup, treasure hunt, food and drinks at the saloon, shoot outs, horse rides, maze...this is worth 40,000 a day?

[BooBear]

Just now, patty1h said:

During the gunfight out in the desert with Teddy, there was this loud noise that came out of nowhere and a bunch of people reacted to. It sounded like a loud roar, which made me think of Lost and that frigging monster in the woods. WTH was that supposed to be? Please don't let those Lost writers start throwing in weird crap like invisible monsters on top of the creepy robots.

I thought the same thing it sounded like the smoke monster.

Quote

I can't get over the economics of WW.   There don't seem to be all that many guests (I mean compared to Disney world) and even at 40k a day, the park must be horrifically expensive to maintain.

I saw it the other way around. The vast majority of robots aren't killed or anything each day so once built, they are good, for years. Fixing Teddy or any of the others doesn't seem like a massive deal and producing a robot seems like it is almost done with a 3d printer so just keep printing them. Maybe that is how they produce skin / blood as well.  It really doesn't seem like they have a crazy amount of staff, the hosts are unwillingly park staff.  Probably programed to keep the park (their room / house)  clean etc, take care of the horses.  I thought in the premiere the manager lady said they had 1400 humans in the park at that moment.  1400 x 40000 = 5.6 million.

[dmc]

36 minutes ago, henripootel said:

I can't get over the economics of WW.   There don't seem to be all that many guests (I mean compared to Disney world) and even at 40k a day, the park must be horrifically expensive to maintain.  I would presume too that, in a world with realistic androids, I'm betting there's a consumer-level model, or at least a plenty of rent-a-robots for far less than 40k a day.  No need to go all the way to WW if all you want to do is fuck a robot.  

Also, who do the robots play out scenarios if there aren't any humans around?  Have we not seen them shootin' and rapin' when there isn't a guest there to witness it?  Presumably the park tracks guests carefully (for safety and whatnot) so why not power down the bits when there's no one nearby?  Surely a guest doesn't follow Dolores home every single night.  It'd save a lot on energy and bullet repair.  

This too and how to they keep the stories separate when at any time guests could intersect and potentially change the user experience.  I think is why they don't have a lot of guests...but to your point...how are they paying for it.

From what I have seen your options are robot hookup, treasure hunt, food and drinks at the saloon, shoot outs, horse rides, maze...this is worth 40,000 a day?

[Ms.McGregor]

I was very disappointed in this episode; seemed to lose all of the momentum built up by episode 2.  (And on a shallow note: My primary interest in this show is Ben Barnes.  I did not sign up for an hour of a Hemsworth and James Marsden.)  Enjoyed Hopkins filling in some of the "mysterious backstory" for us.

For those pondering the flowchart of Dolores' narrative...

The discoverwestworld site posted a flowchart of Dolores' narrative.

[numbnut]

Despite the huge exposition dump, the backstory about Ford's partner was vague. Did anyone catch why Arnold was squeezed out of the business? On what grounds did the board see fit to dismiss him?

Edited October 17, 2016 by numbnut

[Gobi]

19 minutes ago, dmc said:

This too and how to they keep the stories separate when at any time guests could intersect and potentially change the user experience.  I think is why they don't have a lot of guests...but to your point...how are they paying for it.

From what I have seen your options are robot hookup, treasure hunt, food and drinks at the saloon, shoot outs, horse rides, maze...this is worth 40,000 a day?

The hosts are able  to improvise, so if another guest interrupts a story, they just go with it.

We've seen very little of what has been described as an enormous park. Specifically, very little of the family friendly areas. There could well be other trains with different destinations, depending on what a guest wanted to do.

[BooBear]

Quote

Despite the huge exposition dump, the backstory about Ford's partner was vague. Did anyone catch why Arnold was squeezed out of the business? On what grounds did the board see fit to dismiss him?

My first reaction to that was that it was a HUGE BS story meant to manipulate Bernard in some way.  And it seemed to by freaking Bernard out, perhaps pushing Dolores to have her first real moment where she couldn't explain why she did something.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I can't get over the economics of WW.   There don't seem to be all that many guests (I mean compared to Disney world) and even at 40k a day, the park must be horrifically expensive to maintain.  I would presume too that, in a world with realistic androids, I'm betting there's a consumer-level model, or at least a plenty of rent-a-robots for far less than 40k a day.  No need to go all the way to WW if all you want to do is fuck a robot.  

This. From the start, the biggest problem I've had is that the premise seems very shaky. Aside from the obvious economical challenges of keeping something like this going, I also have a hard time believing there are enough people out there who still want to play "cowboys and Indians" (and you'll notice the Indians are conspicuously absent). The western genre has been dying out for decades and this show obviously takes place in the future. Maybe it would come back, as a "fad," at some point, but to be enough of a draw to keep a park like this in business, considering the cost? I just can't see it.

You know what kind of advanced weaponry we have today. Imagine what kind of weapons we'll have at our disposal in the future, whenever this show is taking place. The idea of taking a little six-shooter into a park and chasing after outlaws seems quaint, at best, and ridiculously tame to spend that kind of money on.

I'm also not sure where they're going with any of this. Three episodes in, and I'm already starting to get a little tired of it. The idea behind it is intriguing enough, but so far I don't find the execution all that compelling. It's kind of dragging. I'm sure I'll stick with it until the end of the season, but beyond that? I don't know. 

It's sure ain't no Game of Thrones, and it ain't no Deadwood, neither.

Edited October 17, 2016 by iMonrey

[Maximum Taco]

2 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I believe that Delores' story line is set to run that she goes into town, buys supplies, goes painting, goes home and finds her home attacked and she is attacked.  She may be raped, or she may escape her rapist and is shot.  It seemed like the host that tried to rape her wasn't originally part of that story line, as he was with the guy that had shot up a bunch of other hosts and taken out.  So usually, it appears that she's shot and killed.  

The story can alter based on if she meets with someone in town.  If its Teddy (if he hasn't been pulled off story), the hang out together, go to her house, and Teddy kills the outlaws, possibly also dying.  Its unclear what happens to Delores if there's not another guest along.

If she doesn't meet Teddy, but meets another guest, perhaps they hang out together, she takes him home, and the guest kills the outlaws, surviving.  Again, we don't know exactly what happens to Delores after that, it likely depends on the guest.

Delores' story does seem to run on just a day loop. If she isn't otherwise comandeered by a guest, she'll do the same thing every day.  Go to town, get supplies, go paint, go home.  Teddy's does do, he arrives, meets Delores in town, hang out, go to her home to die.  It looked like Teddy had been taken by a guest from the day before to do bounty hunting stuff, since instead of being on the train that morning, he was with a female guest hunting bandits.

The can she drops seems like the branching point. Every single day she drops the can, that has to be a trigger.

If Teddy picks the can up for Dolores, they go to the countryside to flirt and hang out, then he returns her home. If there's an attack there Teddy kills the host outlaws, if a guest is part of the attack he may kill Teddy and have his way with Dolores. There's also the possibility that Teddy saves Dolores if the guest is not keen to attack him.

If Dolores picks up the can herself, she goes to the countryside alone to paint, then returns home. If there's an attack there she is either raped or killed. I'm unsure if the other hosts would rape her if there was no guest along for the narrative, but it seems from tonight they would.

If a guest picks up the can for Dolores, it depends on the guest. If he's a black hat Teddy steps in to rescue her (and possibly dies right there in the street). If he's a white hat with a taste for romance he probably takes Teddy's place in the storyline (countryside flirt, back home to the ranch etc.) If he's a white hat with no taste for romance she goes on her solo painting excursion.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[kokapetl]

But when Ed Harris kills half the townspeople, and there's two dozen dead robocorpses in the street, that's gotta throw a spanner in the works. The remaining ones are going to be too upset acting to serve you dinner, or help you find Curley's gold.

I'm a little concerned that this show apparently halted production earlier this year so the producers could get their shit together, that the pilot was filmed over two years ago, yet they've "planned" 5 seasons. 

[Gobi]

There have been broad hints that corporate has other goals in mind than just a theme park. That could well explain the source of funding.

[arc]

31 minutes ago, Gobi said:

The hosts are able  to improvise, so if another guest interrupts a story, they just go with it.

We've seen very little of what has been described as an enormous park. Specifically, very little of the family friendly areas. There could well be other trains with different destinations, depending on what a guest wanted to do.

I think there's just one train. Sweetwater probably is the family friendly area. (Oh, premium cable.)

And yeah, hosts can improvise but I think the narrative dept also took the time to build branching narratives for common interruptions.

3 hours ago, Ariah said:

Business model

It seems that some guests stay for longer periods, some come in just for a day.

Maybe you can buy a package of 1-day / 5-day experience? Most hosts run on 1-day stories (like Dolores and Teddy), but some have larger arcs (like Rodrigo Santoro's character from the Pilot). So, the richer the guests, the better the experience (even if some of the days are repetitive).

I read somewhere (from other fans exploring the Discover Westworld site, I think) that the minimum stay is one week, and max is four.

Edited October 17, 2016 by arc

[dmc]

44 minutes ago, Gobi said:

The hosts are able  to improvise, so if another guest interrupts a story, they just go with it.

We've seen very little of what has been described as an enormous park. Specifically, very little of the family friendly areas. There could well be other trains with different destinations, depending on what a guest wanted to do.

Right the hosts can improvise but as a guest what if you don't want another guest to be a part of your experience.  This place is supposed to be your fantasy-other people can change that and for 40k a day...

[fastiller]

Dolores's narrative is available here (it does seem as if the dropped can is the point of divergence):

[DarkRaichu]

I think I can figure out who are guests/hosts by their hats.  Just like William, the guests are wearing either white or black cowboy hats.  The hosts are either wearing other kinds of hats or non black /white cowboy hats or no hats at all.

 

2 hours ago, kay1864 said:

Were there any guests in that scene?  Why would a storyline play out if there are no guests to see it?

Having said the above I think the balding guy with long blonde hair was a guest.  He was standing on Dolores' porch. He was the same guy who (with his posse) cornered Dolores in the morning but backed down when Teddy challenged him.
I think his posse were hosts.  Just like Teddy guided the woman on a "good guy" storyline, the posse were guiding this guest on a "bad guy" storyline

Edited October 17, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Maximum Taco]

5 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Dolores's narrative is available here (it does seem as if the dropped can is the point of divergence):

Also interesting is the fact that she only has a forced reset if she gets "menaced" or the ranch is attacked. 

Does that mean she'll remember you if you are nice to her and have a lovely evening with her and her pa?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, numbnut said:

Despite the huge exposition dump, the backstory about Ford's partner was vague. Did anyone catch why Arnold was squeezed out of the business? On what grounds did the board see fit to dismiss him?

It was implied that Arnold died pretty early on, before the park took off 

[Ottis]

Quote

This. From the start, the biggest problem I've had is that the premise seems very shaky. Aside from the obvious economical challenges of keeping something like this going, I also have a hard time believing there are enough people out there who still want to play "cowboys and Indians" (and you'll notice the Indians are conspicuously absent). The western genre has been dying out for decades and this show obviously takes place in the future. Maybe it would come back, as a "fad," at some point, but to be enough of a draw to keep a park like this in business, considering the cost? I just can't see it.

Two thoughts. One, it's the future, so what is $40k worth? Maybe a lot less than we think by our standards.

The other thought is that it would make sense for WW to have more than one fantasy setting. Maybe we learn about the others as this goes on? Space? camelot? Dinosaurs? Maybe the HBO show will change settings each season, and we will see the park come apart from the POV of different settings/characters?

Otherwise, I'm with you. The Old West is pretty boring, for me. YMMV.

[fastiller]

6 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Also interesting is the fact that she only has a forced reset if she gets "menaced" or the ranch is attacked. 

Does that mean she'll remember you if you are nice to her and have a lovely evening with her and her pa?

It'd be so nice if she could just have one nice evening on the porch, right?    Yesterday I posted this on Twitter (it speaks to how well ERW & JM are acting their parts):

Stray effin' apostrophe!!!

Edited October 17, 2016 by fastiller

[BooBear]

54 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm also not sure where they're going with any of this. Three episodes in, and I'm already starting to get a little tired of it. The idea behind it is intriguing enough, but so far I don't find the execution all that compelling. It's kind of dragging. I'm sure I'll stick with it until the end of the season, but beyond that? I don't know. 

It's sure ain't no Game of Thrones, and it ain't no Deadwood, neither.

Last night was a major gunk in the works. Not compelling and confusing. But it is too early to tell if that was just one bad episode or not. The early reviews all got to see 4 episodes and they weren't complaining so I am happy to continue to watch.  But last nights episode left me mildly shaken because that seemed very uninspired and seemed to erase a lot of the more interesting fan theories.

[arc]

4 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Two thoughts. One, it's the future, so what is $40k worth? Maybe a lot less than we think by our standards.

This is not strictly canon yet, but in an promo, Jonathan Nolan said almost casually about the timeline that 

Spoiler

it's the 21st century in the show.

[henripootel]

1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

And they won't simply shut down for a while and then pretend it happened.  Some human observer riding the range might see the stage in sleep-mode at a distance.  This would break full immersion.

Well, that's kinda my point - in a tightly-run park, they're be no such thing as an accidental human observer.  They seem to keep a close watch on things, and know where folks are at any given point. Why not just shut down for a while if no humans are around?  Haven't they mentioned 'cost-cutting' once or twice?  

This also raises a tangental issue that, interestingly, never really occurred to me when I watched the original WW in the pre-internet days.  I assume the byline for WW is 'What happens in WW *stays* in WW', but these days that might not be true.  Not sure I'd want to risk a film of me fucking robots getting out there, and if they're closely monitoring guests, I'd have to assume that such video would exist.  Might put a dampener on me wanting to bang robots.

1 hour ago, dmc said:

From what I have seen your options are robot hookup, treasure hunt, food and drinks at the saloon, shoot outs, horse rides, maze...this is worth 40,000 a day?

Well, we don't know how far in the future this is, so 40k may not be so much.  But if I'm paying a lot, I think I'd want to do something totally outrageous, like run from dinosaurs or camp with Neanderthals.  The stuff WW offers is not entirely beyond my actual life experience.  Okay, pretend-gunning folks down, sure, but I must have killed 40,000 people online now, and I'm not sure how much more 'real' I'd feel if it was a really, really good fake-up.

I think a lot of this still depends on people being wholly unfamiliar human-like robots.  I find it hard to believe these would be proprietary to WW, even if WW has really good ones.  Shit, if WW did own the patents, why not license them for everyone's use?  Instead of 1200 guests a year, you'd sell billions, and change civilization as we know it.  Of course, few folks would want to go to WW anymore, or at least, it'd be down to current numbers for arcades in the world of xbox and PS.  

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Well, that's kinda my point - in a tightly-run park, they're be no such thing as an accidental human observer.  They seem to keep a close watch on things, and know where folks are at any given point. Why not just shut down for a while if no humans are around?  Haven't they mentioned 'cost-cutting' once or twice?  

This also raises a tangental issue that, interestingly, never really occurred to me when I watched the original WW in the pre-internet days.  I assume the byline for WW is 'What happens in WW *stays* in WW', but these days that might not be true.  Not sure I'd want to risk a film of me fucking robots getting out there, and if they're closely monitoring guests, I'd have to assume that such video would exist.  Might put a dampener on me wanting to bang robots.

Well, we don't know how far in the future this is, so 40k may not be so much.  But if I'm paying a lot, I think I'd want to do something totally outrageous, like run from dinosaurs or camp with Neanderthals.  The stuff WW offers is not entirely beyond my actual life experience.  Okay, pretend-gunning folks down, sure, but I must have killed 40,000 people online now, and I'm not sure how much more 'real' I'd feel if it was a really, really good fake-up.

I think a lot of this still depends on people being wholly unfamiliar human-like robots.  I find it hard to believe these would be proprietary to WW, even if WW has really good ones.  Shit, if WW did own the patents, why not license them for everyone's use?  Instead of 1200 guests a year, you'd sell billions, and change civilization as we know it.  Of course, few folks would want to go to WW anymore, or at least, it'd be down to current numbers for arcades in the world of xbox and PS.  

Run from dinosaurs is worth 40 k a today:)

[DarkRaichu]

15 hours ago, benteen said:

I think Ford was putting on a show for Bernard when he cut the robot but apparently he's not since Bernard is the one who is actually interested in seeing how the hosts evolve.

Poor Bernard....the dead kid seemed obvious when he brought him up.  Was that Gina Torres as his wife.

I still think Bernard is 1 of the androids that Ford created to help him do the day to day, but evolved way pass its initial coding.

Ford just finally put the background story after 20+ years (like he did Teddy) because he noticed Bernard was missing a few minutes a day (ie. talking to Dolores).  I think the memories of his dead kid and of his wife were just inserted then, ie. talking to his wife never happened, it was just a loop in Bernard's memory.  I think the corporate lady was in on it and got to use Bernard as her personal "toy" in exchange. :P

[Maximum Taco]

18 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Two thoughts. One, it's the future, so what is $40k worth? Maybe a lot less than we think by our standards.

The other thought is that it would make sense for WW to have more than one fantasy setting. Maybe we learn about the others as this goes on? Space? camelot? Dinosaurs? Maybe the HBO show will change settings each season, and we will see the park come apart from the POV of different settings/characters?

Otherwise, I'm with you. The Old West is pretty boring, for me. YMMV.

The other thing you need to realize is you can't just pay 40k and stay a day.

The website says the minimum stay is 7 days and the 40k per day only covers basic park entrance, there's a bunch of other mandatory hidden fees. The shortest and cheapest stay in Westworld actually costs you over 440k dollars.

So even if the dollar has inflated to four times today's value, and 40k of their money is only 10k to us, it's still a 110k dollar vacation, per person (not including transport to wherever the park is.) It's not so crazy that only the super rich could afford it, but you'd need to be pretty well off, and probably save a lot to be able to go.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[henripootel]

4 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

it's still a 110k dollar vacation, per person. It's not so crazy that only the super rich could afford it, but you'd need to be pretty well off.

Fair.  But I honestly think WW would be doing piddling business next to Porn World and Roman Orgy World.  I know there was a RomeWorld in the original WW - that I can see people paying 100k for.  The idea that people would want to do something as comparatively cerebral as experiencing the Old West is kinda quaint actually, much like the folks in the our past trying to imagine what it'd be like now.  Freed from domestic tasks, we were supposed to spend time becoming perfect physical specimens (reality: obesity is a huge problem), and with a world of information available to everyone, we'd all spend time fine-tuning our minds (reality: netflix and free porn).  Yeah, Porn World would outsell WW 1000:1, and there'd be several of them.

[djsunyc]

well they said outside of town, the experience is much more intense.  so those dressed up folks at the end were probably robots too.

[AuntiePam]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

This. From the start, the biggest problem I've had is that the premise seems very shaky. Aside from the obvious economical challenges of keeping something like this going, I also have a hard time believing there are enough people out there who still want to play "cowboys and Indians" (and you'll notice the Indians are conspicuously absent). The western genre has been dying out for decades and this show obviously takes place in the future. Maybe it would come back, as a "fad," at some point, but to be enough of a draw to keep a park like this in business, considering the cost? I just can't see it.

 

Maybe it's the economics that argue for a wild west setting.  If guests are coming for the sex and violence, a western town is cheaper to build than a village in ancient Rome or medieval France.  And assuming they're on Earth (I've seen no evidence otherwise), the setting is already there -- sparsely populated areas of Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada, Arizona, etc.  They'd have to do some serious landscaping for another time period.

Another argument might be that we're familiar with the western setting.  We know what a saloon looks like and how people behave in one.  Put me down in Pompeii and I wouldn't have a clue about where to get a meal or a drink.  We're also familiar with guns.  Put the guests in a pre-gunpowder era and they'd have to use knives or swords or axes, and it'd cost more to make those weapons work like the guns do.

[Maximum Taco]

26 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Fair.  But I honestly think WW would be doing piddling business next to Porn World and Roman Orgy World.  I know there was a RomeWorld in the original WW - that I can see people paying 100k for.  The idea that people would want to do something as comparatively cerebral as experiencing the Old West is kinda quaint actually, much like the folks in the our past trying to imagine what it'd be like now.  Freed from domestic tasks, we were supposed to spend time becoming perfect physical specimens (reality: obesity is a huge problem), and with a world of information available to everyone, we'd all spend time fine-tuning our minds (reality: netflix and free porn).  Yeah, Porn World would outsell WW 1000:1, and there'd be several of them.

I don't think so.

Pornworld seems like it would sell a lot, but would you really want to pay 100k per week just to have sex as many times as you want with willing participants? I mean even if the spirit is willing the flesh is weak, how many times would you really be doing it per day? Would you really be getting your money's worth?

Westworld is attractive because the sex is available, and the violence is available but there's lot of other stuff too. When you go on vacation with your significant other you don't just spend the whole time banging. Otherwise nobody would go to Cuba, or Hawaii for their honeymoon, they'd just rent a hotel room downtown, or they'd just go home and bang.

I mean porn is available all the time on the internet. But nobody (at least not anyone who is socially acceptable) watches it all the time.

Now if they sold Pornworld in one hour increments for a couple grand per hour? Then sure, that would sell.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Maximum Taco

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm a little concerned that this show apparently halted production earlier this year so the producers could get their shit together, that the pilot was filmed over two years ago, yet they've "planned" 5 seasons. 

It shows. Having watched the first three episodes there does seem to be a struggle with what the show is supposed to be about. Hopefully, the producers did get their shit together and come to some sort of an agreement.

[DarkRaichu]

16 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Fair.  But I honestly think WW would be doing piddling business next to Porn World and Roman Orgy World.  I know there was a RomeWorld in the original WW - that I can see people paying 100k for.  The idea that people would want to do something as comparatively cerebral as experiencing the Old West is kinda quaint actually, much like the folks in the our past trying to imagine what it'd be like now.  Freed from domestic tasks, we were supposed to spend time becoming perfect physical specimens (reality: obesity is a huge problem), and with a world of information available to everyone, we'd all spend time fine-tuning our minds (reality: netflix and free porn).  Yeah, Porn World would outsell WW 1000:1, and there'd be several of them.

I am assuming the show takes place in the next century.  Judging by how common it is today, by then people are already jaded by Porn World and want something different :P
As per Roman World, by that time it is probably too far in the past for most people to care about.  I mean, just ask any random highschooler who Julius Caesar is and enjoy the dumbfound look on their faces :D

[ennui]

I'm not sure Delores gets raped in the barn. I don't think MiB would need a knife to rape her, he has a gun. I think he does something else. And then when the villain host dragged her into the barn and closed the door, he didn't seem to know what to do next. I can't imagine the hosts rape each other, that wouldn't make sense.

I don't think MiB = Arnold. I think Arnold might be in the maze already.

Not much discussion of the wood chopper committing suicide? He destroyed his own head so that he couldn't be analyzed. 

[Hanahope]

18 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

Put the guests in a pre-gunpowder era and they'd have to use knives or swords or axes, and it'd cost more to make those weapons work like the guns do.

I think this is why there is no pre-gunpowder adventures.  As the one guy said, they limit which hosts are allowed to use the axe, more than likely because its likely impossible to make an axe that would hurt a host, but not a guest.  Creating a medieval world with swords would have all sorts of potential for guest mayhem and injuries.  If there is another world, I'd think it would be like space world where the 'guns' are blasters or some such, things that can be programed to only work against the hosts.  But I'm not surprised if WW brings in the business, I think there are plenty of people now that could keep a medieval fantasy type world in business, showing that there is an interest in "old worlds".

Edited October 17, 2016 by Hanahope

[henripootel]

31 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

Now if they sold Pornworld in one hour increments for a couple grand per hour? Then sure, that would sell.

Oh, I'd agree to that.  Frankly this would quickly devolve into fancy robot bordellos, and every town would have one.  Want to have sex with 5 Jessica Alba bots, each dressed as a German barmaid?  That can be arranged.  But all this would take away business from WW, and I don't know how excited I'd be about banging some random farmer's daughter bot, embedded in a rescue fantasy or not.  Unless it's the Crushinator - there's a lady you gotta romance.

But I agree with DarkRaichu - people would be a bit jaded by PornWorld.  But then they'd probably be more jaded by humanoid robots in general, who are undoubtedly ubiquitous by that time.  For them, robots would be old hat and obvious, not unlike the animatronics from the old Hall of Presidents at Disney.  Impressive to 10-year-old me, but not something I'd pay money to bone now.  

Edited October 17, 2016 by henripootel

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, henripootel said:

Well, that's kinda my point - in a tightly-run park, they're be no such thing as an accidental human observer.

I just don't think things are that controlled.  If you decide you want to ride off into the sunset, and just spend a day enjoying the scenery in solitude, I don't think they will try to stop you.  Instead, a couple of hosts will mosey on by your camp with a "Howdy, Pard!" and mention a lost goldmine in the next valley, a damsel in distress over yonder hill, or something similar, to try and get you into some sort of entertaining loop.  But you might just pass by the powered-down stagecoach first!  So, the stage never powers down.

[Addlepated]

I loved the flicker of frustrated disappointment on Dolores's face when Teddy was leaving to hunt down Wyatt, and he said he'd be back "Someday."  After that impassioned speech she had just given him about how "Someday" was something people said instead of "Never."  And he did it to her again as he was riding off.  

I used to think ERW couldn't act her way out of a paper bag (see: True Blood) but she is just slaying it in this show.  I hope she wins ALL the awards.

[henripootel]

21 minutes ago, Addlepated said:

I used to think ERW couldn't act her way out of a paper bag (see: True Blood) but she is just slaying it in this show.  I hope she wins ALL the awards.

Yeah, I gotta say that's part of why I not jumping ship anytime soon.  The casting, acting, and cinematography are just phenomenal, and the writing is pretty great.  The pacing, however, makes me feel like I'm plodding through West World myself without a horse.  I think they'd have been wise to give me a few episodes to just have fun with the place first and sate my desires, then show me how complicated the whole enterprise really is.  I might even care about some of the hosts, as they clearly want us to.

Quote

I just don't think things are that controlled.  If you decide you want to ride off into the sunset, and just spend a day enjoying the scenery in solitude, I don't think they will try to stop you.

Oh, I didn't mean that they'd control where you went, just monitor you closely.  If nobody is within 10 miles, I say power down the bots to standby - no reason for them to act out if nobody's around.  Certainly don't let them damage each other unnecessarily, I mean why bother?

Edited October 17, 2016 by henripootel

[Gobi]

I agree that there are probably insurmountable problems with a park where the weapons are all blades, axes, etc. I had questions about Maeve's nightmare/memory in which the Indian used a bow and arrow. Can the hosts tell whether they're aiming at a human?

[Ottis]

This thread has raised serious issues about our personal vacation preferences and rationales. 

So if we agree that WW us still very expensive, maybe not quite Kardashian expensive but close, what does that say about the "guests" as a whole? Is it like the difference between shopping at Nordstrom and Walmart? You get *some* crossover, but generally a different crowd? WW guests are all wealthy, or people who saved a long time for a once-in-a-lifetime vacation? I'm wondering what role this may play in creating the fantasies.

Because even present day, spending $2000 a day is a lot of jack, much less $40,000 plus a week's stay.