S05.E02: The Recruits

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Oliver's new recruits for Team Arrow are Curtis, Wild Dog and Evelyn Sharp. Unfortunately, the Green Arrow's training methods prove to be too much for some of them to handle. In flashbacks, Oliver's initiation into the Bratva continues.

[dtissagirl]

I'm so glad Felicity exists in nature. She's the fucking glue that keeps this show together.

[calliope1975]

With a bit of self-selective editing, I enjoyed it. I didn't hate the newbies, but I'm not in love yet either. I also missed the first 15 minutes. A lot of my enthusiasm is gone, but maybe if I keep watching while skipping scenes I don't want to see, it'll work out. 

[Mellowyellow]

Did Felicity get a decent amount of screentime?

[dtissagirl]

I do wish these guys knew how to write with more subtlety. It felt like Oliver was using BRATVA INDOCTRINATION TACTICS --for crying out loud, are you fucking kidding me with this? -- just so it could tie-in with the flashbacks. And so Felicity could use her loud voice, and then Curtis could use his loud voice, and then Felicity could explain in very small words why it was dumb for Oliver TO USE BRATVA INDOCTRINATION TACTICS for fuck's sake.

And like, I'm the first one to mock Oliver for being kinda dumb, but this is something else that has nothing to do with him being dumb, but with still trying to make the flashbacks happen. Ugh.

But hey, if I ignore that, I actually enjoyed this episode? I like the mom and dad vibe enough to start liking the recruits pretty quickly. 

[quarks]

Before I get to my usual thing, I just need to express my shock that this episode was marketed that badly and misleadingly.

[mtlchick]

"They're so green."  "Well so are you. (laughs) I've been waiting for 5 years to say that." I am still trying to figure out if that was an ad lib as it seems Stephen was pretty close to breaking but managed to keep it in.  No wonder they're BFF in real life.  

 

Well I didn't HATE it.  But I am so glad this is the last year of flashbacks.  

[calliope1975]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

Before I get to my usual thing, I just need to express my shock that this episode was marketed that badly and misleadingly.

It's the CW's gift. Honestly, if I wasn't such a spoiler junkie and watched without the next 8 episodes hanging over my head, I think I would have loved it. Ragman's actor looked hot; I hope he sticks around. Felicity and Oliver as mom/good cop and dad/bad cop worked for me. I liked what I saw of Wild Dog and Curtis though Baby Canary or whatever they're calling her didn't make much of an impression. 

The Lance stuff was eh, as were the flashbacks, and every Laurel mention - did you know she died. Cuz she did. She died. But the team stuff was pretty good. 

Edited October 13, 2016 by calliope1975

[Jediknight]

Wait a second, did Felicity reveal to Curtis who The Flash is?  She mentioned that Oliver put 2 arrows into Barry's back, but I can't remember if Curtis knew beforehand.  If I'm remembering correctly that's not cool, Barry may have revealed who he is to a lot of people, but that was his decision.

And Curtis slipped in a reference that leaves a Laurel return open.  He said everybody had left the team or are presumed dead.  Presumed?  That could be another ripple from Barry's actions.

[quarks]

1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

And Curtis slipped in a reference that leaves a Laurel return open.  He said everybody had left the team or are presumed dead.  Presumed?  That could be another ripple from Barry's actions.

The presumed dead was a reference to Roy, not Laurel.

[Velocity23]

Arent Ray and Sara presumed dead?

[catrox14]

I swore I heard Church say something about Oliver Queen before he fought him. Did anyone else hear that?

[Hiveminder]

I feel like these characters should be breaking my heart right now, but they're not. Just the writing is. 

And Detective Mayo's hair. Why is it so strange looking?

[Sunshine]

  I thought that was so much better than last week.  I loved all the Oliver & Felicity interactions.

Of the new characters I liked Ragman the best.  The scene with Oliver was really good.  Poor Felicity though when she heard him talking to that woman about the "fire" of Havenrock.  I liked Wild Dog but Evelyn made about as much of an impression as she did in 4.19.  She's just kind of there.  I was surprised when Oliver revealed himself to them.

Deputy Mayor Quentin Lance!

I hope Detective Malone's not around too much.  I think they found the only person Emily has no chemistry with.  Their one scene was fairly meh.

BTW, they may be writing away from the Olicity romance but so far they aren't writing away from Olicity.   

Edited October 13, 2016 by Sunshine

[EmilyBettFan]

Mayo Tiny Hands is so dull. His hair goes from being sprayed down like a toupee to it being all  gnarly. 

Anyway, Stephen, Emily and David saved this episode. Oh and Ragman was good. I just hope to God they don't make Felicity a villain. It was Damien Darhk's fault! 

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, quarks said:

The presumed dead was a reference to Roy, not Laurel.

 

13 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Arent Ray and Sara presumed dead?

I don't think Sara is presumed dead by anyone since they covered up her death.

Roy is dead, dead as they faked his death in lockup.

Laurel is dead, dead since they burrued her and put up a freaking statue.

Ray is the only one who "disappeared" and is presumed dead. At least to my way of thinking.

[Guest]

I guess I might watch this episode tomorrow if Felicity's story is starting. Plus Olicity. The PR for this episode does not match with the reactions I'm seeing. Idiots!

[benteen]

21 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

"They're so green."  "Well so are you. (laughs) I've been waiting for 5 years to say that." I am still trying to figure out if that was an ad lib as it seems Stephen was pretty close to breaking but managed to keep it in.  No wonder they're BFF in real life.  

 

Well I didn't HATE it.  But I am so glad this is the last year of flashbacks.  

Heheh.  I loved that line and that moment too.

I guess we know how Diggle is going to get out of the military.  It's hilarious that despite being halfway around the world, Dig is still running down the same corridors and warehouses he was in Star City.  Could the CW have given them just a little more money to change the sets a little?

I thought this was a good episode.  I also liked Ragman the best of the new recruits.  He's an off-beat character and him working with is intriguing.

I like Thea's storyline this year but can she possibly dress any more inappropriately for a public servant?

Good stuff on the Felicity front, despite her bore of a boyfriend.  Seriously, she can do a lot better than that guy.

Quinten is bringing his grimacing and chest hair to the City Hall!

Edited October 13, 2016 by benteen

[catrox14]

Just now, benteen said:

I like Thea's storyline this year but can she possibly dress any more inappropriately for a public servant?

LOL that's exactly what i kept thinking. Thea just put on a little jacket okay?

[benteen]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

LOL that's exactly what i kept thinking. Thea just put on a little jacket okay?

It was slightly better than the micro mini-skirt she wore to the statue dedication last week.  But I mean, seriously?

[catrox14]

Just now, benteen said:

It was slightly better than the micro mini-skirt she wore to the statue dedication last week.  But I mean, seriously?

I did think her outfit in her last scene with Quentin was okay

[apinknightmare]

This is the first ep I haven't watched live in the 3 years I've been watching this show, because I got the idea that it would be a lot different than it seems like it was. Pleasant surprise!

[dtissagirl]

I did enjoy that Wendy's idea of "writing away from romance" is making Oliver and Felicity mom and dad to a bunch of puppies. It's especially funnier when EBR has actual anti-chemistry with the wilted lettuce Felicity is dating.

[Sunshine]

The Diggle stuff was pretty good too.  Unfortunately, he's all alone vs another group of crooked soldiers whole have stolen a weapon of mass destruction.   

[wonderwall]

I really loved the episode. I guess it's because it was such a pleasant surprise. 

Oliver and Felicity's talk was easily a top 10 olicity moment for me. 

I can't believe Ragman is my favorite newbie but the actor killed his scene. 

Thea/Quentin was sweet and I enjoyed their scenes. 

Diggle's storyline seems pretty unique for Arrow so I'm excited about that. 

When Felicity heard about Havenrock, idk I was just devastated for her. I'm glad they are bringing on the storyline so quickly. Can't wait to see her interacting with Ragman. 

I'll be skipping next week because it sounds pretty filler. But I'm glad I didn't miss this week's episode. 

[pizza pizza]

:) 

[bmoore4026]

See what happens when you leave Team Arrow, Diggle?  You get yourself all framed for murder by rouge Marines and are probably going to get the firing squad even though I don't think they have the death penalty in the real life American Military but this is the Arrowverse, so anything goes.

Edited October 13, 2016 by bmoore4026

[Lantern7]

Revealing your identity to others so freely? Who do you think you are, Oliver? Barry?

Got major Naruto vibes seeing the Bratva game. I knew teamwork would be key, but I didn't expect this Kakkashi to shoot people. And I've been watching this show for four-plus years.

Ragman? Okay, then. He might be overpowered for this show, but with people making stupid decisions every week, maybe he'll come in handy.

Hey, did you know there was a Laurel on this show? And she died heroically?? Damn, she sucks even when she's not there. Like a lingering fart.

Poor Diggle. And he doesn't know he originally had a daughter. Thanks, Barry!

[Lady Calypso]

I was surprised at how much I liked the episode. Yay for low expectations!

So, I guess everyone knows that Barry is The Flash. Curtis can probably be added to the list. 

I guess it's welcome back to Anal Oliver. I know he has to because of the new team he's recruiting, and Felicity's there to keep him in line. I enjoy the return of Felicity very much. Her comment about Oliver on the salmon ladder made me smile. Maybe now Felicity haters can stop bitching about how much Felicity changed in season 4. I liked all of her talks to Oliver. It's about time someone stood up to him again, and he's only really listened to her and John. But the last one was so, so good. Oliver telling Felicity about Bratva, Oliver admitting that he was protecting himself because of the fates of all of the other team, Felicity convincing him to be himself and to let people in. And....Bamford had that scene shot well. I actually kind of liked the green hue in the scene. So good job, Bamford. You did something right.

It's funny that Felicity has to lie to her boyfriend for answers, much like what Oliver had to do with Felicity in the first season. Detective Tiny Hands was just as boring, but not insufferable, at least. 

The Diggle stuff was pretty good. I can see that he'll be leaving the army soon enough.

I actually didn't hate the recruits. Ragman was given a lot more to make me like him. WildDog and Evelyn Sharp are just kind of there for me at the moment. 

Well, the Havenrock stuff is coming back. Felicity/Ragman drama is upon us. 

The Thea/Quentin scenes were good too. 

Prometheus is pretty epic, although his voice sounds like Reverse Flash or Zoom.

[Last Time Lord]

My crazy off the wall theory: Prometheus is a Flashpoint'd Roy out for revenge for something that happened during the changed timeline.

Two episodes in, and I'm liking this season more than Flash. Ragman is an interesting character. Look forward t learning more about him, though it's interesting that he wasn't with the rest of the budding team at the end.

I knew Pvt. Newbie was a goner the moment Diggle had a heart to heart with him, but him getting gunned down like that still got to me

[way2interested]

Surprisingly good given all of the bad mojo going around (most from the promo itself). I can finally see the glimpse of what the cast meant by liking the season, or at least when they were talking about it at SDCC.

Character moments were great, stunts were good, and I liked the teamwork theme resonating with literally every plot/subplot of the episode. I think I can kind of say that this was my favorite second episode of a season. It really rolled with the momentum from the premiere well and even exceeded the quality of the previous episode (although this might all be due to lowered expectations, I still like what I like).

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Before I get to my usual thing, I just need to express my shock that this episode was marketed that badly and misleadingly.

Can't see the ep until tomorrow but I'm curious how you would market it. Because what I've seen and read so far makes me a bit ragey.

[quarks]

Questionable marketing and WAY too much plot aside, yay, Arrow is back with all of its blatant lack of subtlety and Oliver's amazing lack of people skills! Felicity breaking into satellites! Quentin hiding substance abuse issues! Everyone betraying everyone! YAY!

Plus some new people.

Though did I mention, way too much plot?

Good things:

1. Thank you, Bratva guys, for being so willing to embrace Arrow's shirtless tradition. So sorry you died, but, you know, were those really the sorts of people you wanted to hang out with anyway?

2. On a related note, yay, the Bratva plot is a) actually going somewhere, and b) sorta tied to the present day plot, and c) is helping explain Oliver's current skills, and d) has actual mildly shocking things going on. I have no hope that this will last, but let's enjoy it while it's here. 

3. It's a little Arrow miracle - two episodes in a row with the funds for more speaking parts! Great on two levels - one, for reminding us that at least in theory, Star City does exist beyond the same limited sets and outdoor staircases, but also because this meant multiple betrayals by everyone all around. 

4. This is the sort of impact I'd like seeing Flash make on Arrow - ordinary people reacting to finding out about metahumans. That it led to a plot where Diggle got to explore some of the Legends of Tomorrow sets was just a bonus. It was very much of a sideplot, and nearly lost in all of the new recruits/Bratva/Tobias Church manipulations, but I'm intrigued.

5. One again I find myself wondering if I should actually say this on a forum filled with Olicity shippers, but Felicity channeling season one Oliver and his terrible lies with Mayo Cop cracked me up.

6. And speaking of Felicity jokes....

"They're so green."

"So are you.... I've been waiting five years to make that joke!"

Bonus: Amell trying to stay in character, and losing it. 

7. Like Ragman a lot so far: not only did he get a couple of cool entrances, but I also liked his willingness to drop his revenge to save someone.

8. Strong episode for Felicity, who got - finally - to take on more of a leadership role in Team Arrow again, and also got to hunt down bad guys. Also glad to see that Felicity's Havenrock memories are getting dealt with early on.

9. And speaking of Felicity, I'd call their leadership discussion the hands down best Olicity scene Arrow's had in awhile.

10. Wild Dog wanting to change his code name, and Oliver refusing. Heh.

11. Some really strong scenes between Thea and Quentin, too, and I'm cautiously pleased that Arrow seems to have found something for them both to do.

12. Really liked Curtis and Oliver realizing that a significant part of Oliver's current problem is that his initial team - the one he didn't want - all took off for various reasons.  And the slow realization that this may have had something to do with exactly how he trained all of them.

13. Oliver demanding that Felicity wear a mask, and Felicity refusing. Hee. 

14. Mostly, though, I'm glad to see that between all of the silliness and bell ringing and Thea jumping up to sneak around roofs in designer clothing to listen to people choosing to have a loud conversation about illegal things in an alley conveniently close to where Thea was hanging out, Arrow does, finally, seem to be genuinely back to its roots, for about the first time since season two: that is, a show about what the proper reaction to violence and evil and powerlessness is, about the most effective approach to such things are, and oh, yes, corrupt business people.  And about exploring trauma and pain and responses to that.  (See, also, why having more voiced parts again is so good - it allows Arrow to explore this sort of thing.) Sure, that popped up in the occasional season three or four episode, but not that often - and rarely with an episode filled with various betrayals/interactions like this one. Also liking the attempt to balance civilian and vigilante life. It's not subtle or particularly deep in the least, but this is the show I got hooked on back in season one.

Glad to see you back, Arrow.   

Questionable things:

1. So, after a summer assuring us that oh, yes, Arrow will be back to realism, Arrow gives us one subplot focused on people reacting to metahumans, and a new guy who can do magic stuff with ancient rags.

Arrow, I think we need to have a little talk about what "realism" means.

2. It's still not clear to me if Oliver knows about Mayo Cop or not.

3. Speaking of Mayo Cop, though, I got that they wanted to remind us that Mayo Cop is around, something kinda important since, let's face it, the guy is not all that memorable, but surely the Arrow Cave has specto analysis whatever stuff, right? Or did Flashpoint change that, too?

Damn it, Barry!

4. Continuing with the scene with Mayo Cop - uh, Mayo Cop, yay for figuring out that the pronoun change meant that Felicity wasn't telling the truth, minus several thousand detective points for not doing your detective job and, you know, asking why a former CEO of Palmer Tech is walking around with a 2500 year old rag just a few hours or a day after someone wearing rags attacked a Star City public function.  Yes, I realize that Star City is presumably scraping the bottom of the barrel to find any cop willing to work for them right now, and that Arrow had a lot more plot to churn through, but I am sorely disappointed in your detective skills, Mayo Cop. Sorely.

5. Meanwhile, Mayo Cop was a) in the episode for all of 30 to 45 seconds, b) has yet to meet any of Felicity's friends, and c) did not get an invitation to meet any of Felicity's friends, even though Curtis and Paul would presumably be fairly safe friends to meet. I cannot take this boyfriend particularly seriously. Glad to see they are playing it lighthearted, though Ritter playing comedy is giving me unintentional reminders of some of his father's weaker moments on Three's Company. 

6. Speaking of minor characters who barely had anything to say, hello Evelyn! Arrow, if this is going to work out, you are going to need to give her actual lines besides "I agree with the crazy guy" to explain why a 16 year old is joining a group of adults to go run around and hit people on the streets, other than "Eh, DC needs to sell more toys." I don't dislike her; I just have no idea what she's doing.

7. Felicity noting that Oliver has never mentioned his period in the Bratva before this season. Just as, Felicity, he never mentioned Hong Kong to you until two years ago. You should be used to the way Oliver gives out information about his past by now, Felicity! It's always on a five year delay!

8. I was continuously distracted, and not in a good way, by Thea's clothing throughout this episode, especially that weird shiny blue suit. I know that Arrow needs to put Felicity and Thea in designer clothing, but is there anyway these designers can be persuaded to send over relatively realistic office clothing for Thea and more practical clothing for Felicity - and get Felicity out of those high heeled shoes?

9. Why didn't Oliver warn Thea and Felicity that Quentin was drinking again? Seems like information they would need to know.

Bad things:

1. So much for the Palmer Tech/QC set actually being gone, or least redressed enough so that the Mayor's office didn't look exactly like the the Palmer Tech/QC set with the furniture from the DA's office in the second and third seasons. Arrow, I realize you spent a lot of money on that floor and the nice trick walls, but when the Star City Mayor is reusing the props that Ray Palmer had in his office, can we maybe at least try to adjust the trick walls a bit? Or the camera angles?  

2. Speaking of sets, Vancouver does have more than three outdoor staircases, right? Just asking, because I find it amazing that everyone in Star City just happened to be on a staircase just attacked not all that long ago on Flash.  

3. Ok, look, Arrow, I got what you were doing with the whole leadership thing and learning to be a leader and all that, but after four years, not even Oliver can be dumb enough to think that Bratva training techniques are going to work on two streetfighters plus Curtis. Not to mention that he was even harder on them than he was on Diggle and Roy. I realize Arrow was trying the old trick of trying to directly connect the flashbacks to the present day, and that Oliver is dealing with post-Laurel trauma, but this just seemed like complete overkill. Or trying too hard to tie the Bratva flashbacks to the present day plot. You decide.  

Not to mention that Oliver was the leader of Team Arrow for four years. Sure, Arrow backed away from that a bit last season, but not that much. He's not that bad at leading people. That was a major part of both seasons two and three.

4. You know, Oliver, just for fun, instead of forcing your recruits to stare at what most people would call a pretty terrible piece of art, you could also try throwing in other names to remind your recruits about just how dangerous this job is. Like, you know, the original Hood, who is supposedly dead, or Ray Palmer, who is supposedly dead. Just a suggestion.

5. As I said, I liked the episode, but even by Arrow's standards, this was far too much plot, what between Bratva, Diggle and nuclear weapons systems, Oliver Once Again Trying To Learn How To Be Nice, the recruits, Ragman/Felicity, the villains of the week, and oh yes, Quentin's drinking problem. To its credit, the episode did a relatively decent job of mostly tying all of this except for Diggle into the main plot, and Diggle at least got connected to the various Flash plots, but all of that plot meant that multiple scenes weren't just not allowed to breathe, they were cut off mid word, to the detriment of several scenes - the Curtis/Oliver clash, some of the Thea/Oliver scenes, and the rapid paced Oliver/Thea/Felicity all figure out the plot together, where it seemed that the actors had been ordered to run that at full speed - and even with that, Oliver's final moment/expression was cut off. Maybe try for just a little less plot, Arrow, so some of these scenes can breathe a little - and so we can get more emotionally invested in Evil Executive One and her Evil Underlying Who Gets Attacked For Giving Handouts?

[BkWurm1]

My computer ate my first post so keeping this simple.  First thoughts

That was pretty good, right?  Not perfect but good.  Tons packed in but all felt relevant and flowed nicely including the flashbacks and Diggle's story.  A lot of really good Felicity and Oliver interaction.  Also liked Quentin's bit though it's a stretch to think this is a good idea, might work, but not terribly realistic.  Also enjoyed that the newbies didn't feel like they took over.  REALLY enjoyed Curtis's smackdown on Oliver and that what he said reinforced what Felicity told Oliver when she broke up with him which made me feel validated.

Not so great that they didn't connect the dots between what Curtis said and the Olicity breakup.  Still, gives me hope they are working on fixing what drove them apart but still think it's dumb that Oliver has to relearn this lesson.  Again.

Tiny Hands is still so incredibly pointless in this show except to give Felicity a secret?  And Team Arrow, buy a replacement spectochromagraph or whatever it was. It's been five months.  You never needed to run tests in all that time?

Liked that Oliver noticed something was off with Felicity, am willing to wait for her breakdown.  Didn't like that neither seemed concern about having Ragboy join the team.  Is that really smart when he has that much of a grudge?  Also nitpick on his costume.  I thought it was Prometheus in a ripped mask until the tentacles showed up.

I'm sure more stuff will come to me, but yeah, a surprisingly solid hour.  I feel the quality is markedly up so far this season. 

[catrox14]

20 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

My crazy off the wall theory: Prometheus is a Flashpoint'd Roy out for revenge for something that happened during the changed timeline.

Two episodes in, and I'm liking this season more than Flash. Ragman is an interesting character. Look forward t learning more about him, though it's interesting that he wasn't with the rest of the budding team at the end.

I knew Pvt. Newbie was a goner the moment Diggle had a heart to heart with him, but him getting gunned down like that still got to me

I floated a similar theory in the spoiler thread a few days ago. I suggested it will Roy as Jason Todd since Roy was last going by the name of Jason.

[Last Time Lord]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I floated a similar theory in the spoiler thread a few days ago. I suggested it will Roy as Jason Todd since Roy was last going by the name of Jason.

I actually forgot he was going by Jason. That would make sense and would be a good way to bring in Jason Todd, in a way, and allow him to have an alias.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Did Felicity get a decent amount of screentime?

I thought a very decent amount.  Plenty even.  Did not feel reduced at all to me.  She even got to leave the bunker (I liked the second time better than the first)

1 hour ago, quarks said:

Before I get to my usual thing, I just need to express my shock that this episode was marketed that badly and misleadingly.

Yeah, the newbies were not the focus at all.  They were absolutely there, but it wasn't really about them. 

 

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

Revealing your identity to others so freely? Who do you think you are, Oliver? Barry?

Got major Naruto vibes seeing the Bratva game. I knew teamwork would be key, but I didn't expect this Kakkashi to shoot people. And I've been watching this show for four-plus years.

Ragman? Okay, then. He might be overpowered for this show, but with people making stupid decisions every week, maybe he'll come in handy.

Hey, did you know there was a Laurel on this show? And she died heroically?? Damn, she sucks even when she's not there. Like a lingering fart.

Poor Diggle. And he doesn't know he originally had a daughter. Thanks, Barry!

My thought too but then I reminded myself that Oliver has put killing back on the table so if he didn't like how they took his reveal, well, he had options, lol.

Yeah, I didn't expect them to kill the other initiates which is silly since I was expecting a winner take all fight but for I thought it had already happened.

As for Diggle, I didn't sneeze or something and miss them revealing to the Arrow audience that Diggle no longer has a daughter, did I?  Are they really just going to ignore what they did until they have to have the kid of some script?  Weird choice.

[Hook75]

Why the obsession with a TEAM? Why must Oliver have a team? This is what ruined Arrow for me.

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

  Also liked Quentin's bit though it's a stretch to think this is a good idea, might work, but not terribly realistic.

A stretch that he's deputy mayor or that he's working with Oliver in both his lives?

Quentin at city hall at least makes some sense because he has both management and government (police force) experience.  Thea barely finished high school and got what experience she has by running Verdant, working on Oliver's very brief campaign and sleeping with Alex.

[NumberCruncher]

Color me shocked I actually liked this episode.  The magic of low expectations.  ;)  Seriously though, I thought it had some pretty enjoyable character moments and the pacing wasn't terrible.  

Clearly the only reason they had Oliver be such an angry old man was because they desperately needed a way to tie all of this into the Bratva flashbacks.  He's trained how many superheroes by now and never acted like such a juvenile?  I know you need to make the flashbacks work but it was a bit too obvious, Arrow writers.

Felicity was a superstar of this episode.  She not only had some great moments, but her scenes with pretty much everyone were a pleasure.  Even her interaction with Detective Tiny Hands wasn't even all that bad but I agree with others that their chemistry is nonexistent.  I'm not really getting any long-term relationship vibes there but I'm sure the writers will find a way to have her married to him with kids in no time without building anything up because Drama!

Thankfully Thea wasn't as annoying as last week.

I need Diggle back on the Arrow team, stat!

Surprise, surprise, the newbies didn't irritate me like I expected them too.  Know why?  Because they kept their screentime to a minimum and focused on the core characters.  Please keep it that way.

Okay PTB, you're 1 for 2...you're a bit closer to keeping my viewership.  3 more episodes to prove your worth.  If you keep churning out episodes like this I may not have to break up with you.

[Carrie Ann]

Hey, wow, I liked that episode! I don't think I've said that since 420, and I definitely was not expecting to say it tonight after the truly awful marketing. Yikes. 

@quarks covered pretty much all the things I enjoyed, but I just want to shout out the things that particularly impressed me. First, Ragman was...pretty great. I'm very intrigued by him and loved his scene with Oliver. Second, I thought Paul Blackthorne was outstanding in this episode and I thought Willa really upped her game with him. That last scene of theirs was excellent. It's been a long time since the show gave me anything to care about outside of Olicity/OTA and I am really happy about this. 

Also I did love all the O/F stuff, and even the Mayo scene because it felt like a role reversal for Felicity from S1. 

Finally, how many Laurel references does one episode need? Zero, IMO, but there was one that made them all worth it. Oliver told Felicity that he'd had five years of training before he became a vigilante [we'll ignore that stint in Coast City], then said, "you know who didn't have that? Laurel Lance. And now she's dead." Yes. Thank you, Oliver. I agree that she was woefully underprepared and should never have been on the street. Now just...stop talking about her, forever. 

Edited October 13, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[Sunshine]

I really hope every episode is not a love letter to Laurel.  This has been going on since 4.19. Stop it Arrow!

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I really hope every episode is not a love letter to Laurel.  This has been going on since 4.19. Stop it Arrow!

My thought was that Oliver is using Laurel to remind everyone of what not to do.  If they keep doing that it will be at least a realistic perspective with how her journey progressed.

[BkWurm1]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

A stretch that he's deputy mayor or that he's working with Oliver in both his lives?

Quentin at city hall at least makes some sense because he has both management and government (police force) experience.  Thea barely finished high school and got what experience she has by running Verdant, working on Oliver's very brief campaign and sleeping with Alex.

A stretch that the solution to Quentin's alcoholism and fall off the wagon is giving him a job with huge responsibility without addressing any of the other reasons why he is back to the bottle.  Last week I thought Quentin had listened to Oliver and found his reason to stop drinking.   But now we find out that he's already back on the bottle even when Thea had offered him an important task.  So it's a stretch that him taking on an even bigger task should be a success but I'm willing to overlook that since the Dept. Mayor spot works well with his character. 

[Sunshine]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

My thought was that Oliver is using Laurel to remind everyone of what not to do.  If they keep doing that it will be at least a realistic perspective with how her journey progressed.

I get that but I didn't find her very interesting in life so I'm tired of hearing about her good or bad. :)

[Lady Calypso]

11 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I really hope every episode is not a love letter to Laurel.  This has been going on since 4.19. Stop it Arrow!

Agreed. Even when Oliver was honouring Tommy's memory after he died, he didn't mention his name in every other scene! We get it! Laurel was the Black Canary! She was supposedly important for the city...or something. Don't worry, show; we could never forget her, even if we wanted to.

[catrox14]

Just now, Sunshine said:

I get that but I didn't find her very interesting in life so I'm tired of hearing about her good or bad. :)

My comment was more of a reason why I could tolerate hearing about her as long as it's finally putting Laurel in the proper context in death as she was in life.

[BkWurm1]

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5. One again I find myself wondering if I should actually say this on a forum filled with Olicity shippers, but Felicity channeling season one Oliver and his terrible lies with Mayo Cop cracked me up.

It's funny.  I did find it funny on her side to have to do this and realize that she's as bad at it as Oliver, but when it was her and Oliver, what made it so wonderfully funny were her reactions to the dumb lies but even though Tiny Hand clearly got that she was lying to him about something super weird (so that him doing the favor made zero sense) the actor gave almost nothing back in facial expression and then he ignored everything and started talking about their relationship.  And there wa just no sparkle or chemistry.  It's so effortless between SA and EBR but it just fell flat between EBR and Ritter.  It even seemed written that way since he just changed the subject back to something about him. 

By the end I was painfully aware of what it was not even coming close to. 
 

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It's still not clear to me if Oliver knows about Mayo Cop or not.

Speaking of Mayo Cop, though, I got that they wanted to remind us that Mayo Cop is around, something kinda important since, let's face it, the guy is not all that memorable, but surely the Arrow Cave has specto analysis whatever stuff, right? Or did Flashpoint change that, too?

 

I think the part about Mayo having never met any of her friends was a hint that Oliver didn't at least officially know.  (Maybe they'd have him secretly know but Felicity not know he knows?) But I'd love to be wrong and that he has been told.  

And Felicity said the Ghosts broke their specto thingie when they attacked so she'd have to go elsewhere (but I don't get why they haven't replaced it or why they didn't fix the broken window pane in the bunker.)  

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 I was continuously distracted, and not in a good way, by Thea's clothing throughout this episode, especially that weird shiny blue suit. I know that Arrow needs to put Felicity and Thea in designer clothing, but is there anyway these designers can be persuaded to send over relatively realistic office clothing for Thea and more practical clothing for Felicity - and get Felicity out of those high heeled shoes?

My continuous complaint really isnt' about how short or inappropriate Thea's clothing is, but how often I find it just really ugly.  Felicity might not dress practically, but at least I think she looks nice and the outfits are pretty. 

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Not to mention that Oliver was the leader of Team Arrow for four years. Sure, Arrow backed away from that a bit last season, but not that much. He's not that bad at leading people. That was a major part of both seasons two and three.

And the culmination of season four when he jumped on a car and inspired the city. 

But wasn't Felicity's point that the Green Arrow wasn't the leader, but Oliver Queen was?  It's an odd distinction to be sure when last I checked, same person, but maybe she meant his street persona?   

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 As I said, I liked the episode, but even by Arrow's standards, this was far too much plot,

I wonder if that means I like more plot in my episodes since I thought this was one of the few episodes that felt well written.  Stuff happened actually.  It was a bit bloated with both Diggle and the Flashbacks, but I was amazed at how much story we got told and it all connected.  Even Diggle's part fit the theme about learning who you can trust. 

Edited October 13, 2016 by BkWurm1

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Hook75 said:

Why the obsession with a TEAM? Why must Oliver have a team? This is what ruined Arrow for me.

Must have been tough watching for 3.5 seasons, then.

[Chaser]

Ragman got the first official handshake. With all the build up of Wild Dog I thought he would get the first one. Ragman was my favorite of the recruits. Sharp was just there. Wild Dog is looking oversold for me right now. I like Curtis but I thought his verbal smackdown of Oliver a little eyebrow raising. Thea and Diggle left because of their own personal struggles not Oliver. I thought it was unfair of Curtis and they were bending too much to plot.

They are burning thru Quentin's fall off the wagon. I appreciate that because boring. Thea was better this week but a little yawn. I did love the Queen family scene. Wait. I mean the Quen-Smoak scene. The "and they say you are just a pretty face" made me lol.

It was hard for me to get into Diggle's plot this week. I need him back in SC interacting with the others. He is too far away now.

Felicity, Felicity, Felicity. Pretty much loved everything. I want to rematch all the scenes. So glad we got actual set up this episode. I'm looking forward to her and Ragman interacting.

Did you guys know that Olicity isn't a thing? Like at all? That chemistry? Just ignore. That heart to heart? Means nothing. 

PR for this episode was shit.