TDS 3.0: Season Two Talk

[fastiller]

I don't know what generation I belong to (younger than a boomer, not a millennial): whatever generation I'm in, I don't want her either.

[needschocolate]

19 hours ago, saoirse said:

Trevor, please be my boyfriend. Thank you.

I will let you have him, but only because my husband would object to me having a boyfriend.

18 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Wow. If that had been me hosting, they would have shown "Tomi" ranting, then the camera would cut to me, with blood coming out of my eyes, ears and nose. And I'm white. And wow, when was the last time a TDS audience turned on a guest? I don't think Bill O"Reilly ever got booed during his jousts with Jon. If the preshow comic promised the crowd money for being on their best non-partisan behavior, they did not collect.

I deleted the recording when she came on.  After reading all these posts I can't decide if I should watch it on demand because Trevor apparently kicked butt, or if I should be thankful I deleted it because the hypocrisy that has been so rampant the last few months is slowly killing me.  

[possibilities]

Her saying she doesn't protest because she doesn't see herself as a victim was not an answer to how someone should protest if they do experience victimization.

[DeLurker]

Since I expect to run into more like Tomi, IRL where I can't just easily change the channel or turn it off, I am glad I toughed it out and watched it.  Mostly for seeing how Trevor handled it - polite, persistent and not distracted by her sound bites.  The man is wicked quick and her inability to deviate from her script and buzzwords was so apparent in contrast.

I don't know if I have the fortitude to watch the extended interview, but I'm going to try at some point.

In the extended interview, does she go longer about Hillary and "Bill not wanting to touch her"?  Because I thought that was tasteless and crass, but also deliberate.

[Delwyn]

7 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

In the extended interview, does she go longer about Hillary and "Bill not wanting to touch her"?  Because I thought that was tasteless and crass, but also deliberate.

I thought that was the moment she really showed her true colours and went off her script, but I'm not sure it was deliberate. She has her talking points about BLM's "inappropriate" behaviour and refused to deviate from them. Then Trevor took a surprise swipe by turning that around on Trump's lechery and she automatically responded in the grossest way possible when caught off guard, proving herself to be no better than the ideas she was just objecting to. 

[ganesh]

The consistent response when Trump was accused of sexually assaulting women because he literally said he did, was "Bill Clinton raped women in the 90s, so Hillary is worse." So she had to be aware of that, and probably said it herself on her "show." I don't think she was expecting Trevor to slip in that joke, and clearly had planned on getting in the last word, but she totally botched it. Which again underscores the general assessment here. 

One additional thing I was thinking on my way home. When she sat down she said, "ok, into the lion's den"; clearly, we take that to mean she's gearing up for a fight. TN responded with "Lion? Because I'm African?" Whether it was calculated or not, he set the tone: No, I'm not actually here to fight. I've seen what you've said, and I want to ask you about it. 

She was expecting a typical shouting match and rage. We could all see how she was going on her planned screeds during the course of the interview. And you all know how the rest went.

Is this Trevor Noah's finest hour? The Atlantic had something to say about it.

[Delwyn]

Two thumbs up for the old school reference to Frank DeCaro tonight. 

ETA: thanks for posting that link, ganesh. (Those comments below it, though. Brain meltingly dumb... as in: "how do you manage to get dressed in the morning?" dumb.)

Edited December 2, 2016 by Delwyn

[piccadilly83]

20 hours ago, cyberfruit said:

And she's definitely racist. She gave herself away when she said:

1. She doesn't see color (lol). 

2. Said, "What, because I'm white I can't talk about this?". It's damn near an old racist's stand-by, faux indignation included. To my recollection, Trevor never talked about her whiteness. Sure, he's thinking it, we were all thinking it, but she played herself by voicing it. I'm glad Trevor calmly replied, "I never talked about your race." She thought she had a checkmate because usually when *that* question appears, people fall over themselves to say, "No one's saying that white people can't talk about this.", and then the argument turns into squabbling over why Black people can say "x" and white people can't. Nope!

I actually disagree with this cyberfruit. I know I wasn't thinking "You can't say that because you're white."  I was thinking "you can't say that because it's so stupid." Period. Nothing to do with her race.  I also don't necessarily think someone is racist when they say they don't see color, but you're right, that oftentimes they are and are just trying to find a way to cover themselves when they say prejudiced things.  

I know I really appreciated Trevor's approach because, like many of you have stated, it really pulled the mask off of her charade.  She kept claiming that kneeling was not an appropriate way to protest, but she could not come up with one real way that someone could show their discontent with system without being considered a troublemaker.  Sounds like the people who didn't like black students sitting at segregated lunch counters in North Carolina or those who were upset the blacks were trying to integrate schools.  I'm sure she doesn't see any of the parallels between her positions and those because those were deemed to be the work of bad people and she doesn't see herself as a bad person.  If she was so interested in making things better in this country I would have thought she would have a real way people can work together to improve the system.  Trevor to his credit actually did that when he encouraged people to protest the election of Trump, but discouraged them from causing property damage.

I also, perhaps somewhat snarkily, want to say that this is what happens when you have a failed school system.  I don't know where Tomi went to school.  It's possible she was educated in private schools her whole life, but a lot of the arguments she made were things I've heard from other people, even myself over the years.  When she said something like "I as a woman did not have rights until after blacks," I'm left frustrated.  Besides the logical error that blacks are a somehow a genderless species where distinctions between male and female do not matter, her info is seriously whack.  She's using the idea that the 15th Amendment, which granted black men the right to vote, was actually enforced.  I guess she forgot about that little system called Jim Crow put in place shortly after Reconstruction.  And yet, I'm not surprised.  As a millennial, I know a lot of information about slavery, post slavery, and the conditions of black lives is not really addressed in school.  It's how you get high school graduates who still ask, "well, why didn't blacks just revolt if they hated slavery so much," and say "we're in Ohio, there was no slavery here, so there can't be any racism."  I wish teachers would take the opportunity in American history classes to teach more than, slavery was bad, Rosa Parks sat on a bus and that was great, and this guy MLK was like a saint.  It really warps people's understanding of history when they are taught that those positions are universally supported.  MLK was super controversial in his day.  He didn't just fight segregation in the South, he also fought for low wage workers in the North, and it wasn't just the big bad boogey man racist who was against him; it was people like your grandfather or uncle who didn't want to see political or social systems disrupted.  Anyways, this long spiel is to say there needs to be more dialogue if you will.  Thanks goodness for a project like Duvernay's 13th Amendment or Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow to bring light to how some of these prejudices are carried forward in today's world.

Edited December 2, 2016 by piccadilly83

[possibilities]

It's more than just ignorance, though. It's also hostility. If people simply didn't know, they could still be open-minded and curious, and seek information instead of rushing to condemn. There's no lack of information available, but even when it's offered, it's often refused.

[piccadilly83]

I think the hostility comes from the fact that they feel they're being misrepresented.  It doesn't mean they're right of course, but as you say, they could make an effort to learn if they wanted.  I also guess part of the problem is you can't teach empathy.  It reminds me of that one congressman or senator who was staunchly against gay marriage until he found out his own son was gay.  I mean, I'm sure he heard the equal rights arguments for gay marriage all of the time, but he wasn't swayed until it effected someone in his own family.

Edited December 2, 2016 by piccadilly83
expanded upon idea

[CheezyXpressed]

I loved his response when she said "I don't see colour," because that's really a stupid thing to say to a person of colour. I understand why people say statements like this, but it really undermines what minorities go through every day.

It was a stellar interview and the fact that he remained compose when most of us would be shouting (granted, I was shouting and I was only watching it through the screen). Kudos to Trevor!

[ChelseaNH]

4 hours ago, CheezyXpressed said:

 

I loved his response when she said "I don't see colour," because that's really a stupid thing to say to a person of colour.

 

If you don't see color, then you see in black and white.  She certainly strikes me as someone who's not into nuance.

[stillshimpy]

I agree with so much of what has already been said and won't unnecessarily add to it. 

And when she said she doesn't see herself as victim. Well that's good for her, she's a pretty, young, blonde white girl, give enough time but she'll experience her first harassment case or be passed over for someone younger, prettier and crazier.

I genuinely laughed out loud when she said that because given the type of men she's so prone to defending, just wait until they are drunk and you're alone with them, Tomi.  Just wait.  They're so historically well-behaved around pretty women.  Go.  Meet Trump.  Alone.  We'll wait. 

[ganesh]

I certainly don't want her to be assaulted, but she just struck me as ridiculously lacking in life experience. 
She's never been a victim, and I hope she's not, but has she talked to the people whom she is criticizing? Confronted anyone from BLM? I'm guessing she hasn't. 

I think the most important question Trevor asked was "why are you so angry?" 
 

[stillshimpy]

I certainly don't want her to be assaulted, but she just struck me as ridiculously lacking in life experience.

I wasn't being literal, ganesh.  She's loathsome but I  have no active wish for her, or anybody else for that matter, to be harmed.  It's just, that statement, "I don't see myself as a victim" with the implication that people who are protesting against actual violent crimes perpetrated against their community are whiners, I couldn't help but think that sooner or later she's going to be in a situation where these very traditional males treat her as if she is a second-class citizen.  A dog that can play the piano, a curiosity, but something that they can push around, ignore, dismiss, demean, and yes, even touch because the freaking President-Elect is known to think it's okay to grab what he finds fetching.  

I don't want to see her harmed, it's that she has clearly led such a sheltered fucking life and whereas that might last, it's unlikely to.  She's thrown herself in with people who have no respect for women.  The odds are not in her favor. 

[DeLurker]

7 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

I couldn't help but think that sooner or later she's going to be in a situation where these very traditional males treat her as if she is a second-class citizen

I suspect she already is viewed in that manner by the very people she speaks for.  She's a disposable mouthpiece who's appeal has a shelf life.  She lacks the intellectual agility to transition once the message changes.

[ruby24]

Trevor may have done a good job with the interview, but I gotta say, I think there's a real problem with giving people like this a platform. It's a part of mainstreaming hatred and racism and bringing back Nazis and the KKK that Trump has done.

[Unusual Suspect]

She already has a platform. And while I would be happier never to have known that she and her show exist, I am grateful for Trevor bringing her on the show, and debating her in such a manner. 

[Landsnark]

"I don't see color" is a (laughably unsophisticated) rhetorical conceit that allows her to deny racism exists, and is meant to absolutely rule out any "racist" motivations within anything she'll later say.  It's also bullshit.  I wonder if she sees gender?  Or poverty?  Or discrimination?

[possibilities]

She doesn't see discrimination. People who see it are crybabies.

[DeLurker]

And victims.

[ChelseaNH]

I didn't see the interview as giving her a platform, but as providing a demonstration of how to respond to that kind of nonsense without devolving into sputtering rage.

[angora]

I was SO glad the MoZ was about a hipster Santa - when the anchors were going on about "not your dad's Santa" and "too cool for school," I was cringing in anticipation of a cut to the Black Santa at the Mall of America.

The Ben Carson jokes are shooting fish in a barrel, but I still laugh.  I loved Trevor's line about how it's not fair to tell Carson anything at 6:45 am, since his eyes can't fully open until noon.  (Although, seriously?  By his own admission, unqualified to run a federal department - what a shit show.)

Sigh... Mike Pence.  "We can't say for sure that millions of people DIDN'T vote illegally?"  THIS is what your job is gonna be for the next four years, acting like whatever crazy bullshit Trump spouts is reasonable and (per Kellyanne Conway) "presidential?"  I did like Trevor's point that the administration can't shade the truth when Trump's surrogates fall over themselves to "clarify" his tweets and Trump himself just doubles down on their initial heinousness.

This Jordan-at-a-Trump-rally piece wasn't as chilling/sickening as some of the more recent ones he's done, but I think my favorite part of that segment was the montage of news commentators trying to figure out what the "victory tour" actually was.

[ganesh]

Too bad the media didn't feel like calling out all the misinformation in the campaign and only started now though. Yes, it's a flat out lie that millions of people voted illegally. Thanks for allowing up! 

[peeayebee]

The minute Ben Carson's name came up, I was so happy anticipating Trevor's impression. A little light in my life. However, the picture they used wasn't really fair: It was of Carson, and others, praying, so it made sense for his eyes to be closed. For once it made sense.

Preibus, Pence, and Ryan -- law firm? -- acting like whatever Trump says is reasonable or "refreshing" is absolutely ridiculous. Does ANYONE fall for this?

I liked that Jordan presented himself as kind of an ally to the people at Trump's rally. They were more apt to follow whatever the heck he said.

@nauseam was a good graphic. I also liked the Queen wearing Juicy sweatpants. 

[redfish]

Quote

Preibus, Pence, and Ryan -- law firm? -- acting like whatever Trump says is reasonable or "refreshing" is absolutely ridiculous. Does ANYONE fall for this?

Judging from that victory rally Jordan Klepper showed, I say yeah. They still think he's "different" even though from their very mouths they made excuses for the hiring of more "swamp" and then rationalizing that it's okay because they have experience which contradicted their attitude to Hillary Clinton.

[Hanahope]

The gymnastics that those Trump supporters were going through is just incredible.  Its like an article I read in my paper that "rust-belt Dems" who voted for Trump don't care a whit about any of his campaign promises, except the one to give them a full time job with good benefits.  So, good luck with that.  I'll be waiting to hear that you got one, solely due to Trump.

I can't believe our next four years is going to be a constant, "well, you can't prove something didn't happen like Trump tweeted/said."

All those people that criticized and complained about every little thing Obama did, but whatever Trump does is "presidential" because he's the president (or will be).

[ganesh]

29 minutes ago, redfish said:

Judging from that victory rally Jordan Klepper showed, I say yeah. They still think he's "different" even though from their very mouths they made excuses for the hiring of more "swamp" and then rationalizing that it's okay because they have experience which contradicted their attitude to Hillary Clinton.

I like Jordan's in the field pieces because although there's a lot of sameness to them, it underscores not only that they're uninformed, but that they don't have the intellectual curiosity, fortitude, whatever to grasp that they're voting against their own interests. (I also like how Jordan can be so contemptuous of these people right to their face and they'll basically agree with him.) In that context I kind of agree with Van Jones when he says that he feels obligated to reach out. 

 

5 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

The gymnastics that those Trump supporters were going through is just incredible.  Its like an article I read in my paper that "rust-belt Dems" who voted for Trump don't care a whit about any of his campaign promises, except the one to give them a full time job with good benefits.  So, good luck with that.  I'll be waiting to hear that you got one, solely due to Trump.

While at the same time they'll yell at other people to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps", but hey, you can give me a job.

[ganesh]

Tomi follows up on her interview with Trevor. 

I didn't watch the extended interview, but during the show, she got 'jeered' for saying outlandish, bombastic things that I don't think even she thought was true. Coulter wouldn't have complained like this. 

[possibilities]

So she's a crybaby. It needs to be said.

[purist]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

Tomi follows up on her interview with Trevor.

Oh boohoo. Cry me a fucking river.

[DeLurker]

Tomi didn't paint herself a victim really (we know how she feels about that) but as some martyr (or at least martyresque).  Puh-lease!

[peeayebee]

Loved the graphic of the Nazi hang glider.

The Secretary of the Navy was pretty cool.

[zxy556575]

19 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

The Secretary of the Navy was pretty cool.

"Is that a doobie?"

[Lantern7]

Domino's Reindeer for the win. What the fuck, Domino's Japan?!? How is delivering pizza by reindeer a good idea anywhere?

Oh, and the news is still depressing, and the Electoral College makes little sense in the 21st Century. Thankfully, Trevor makes things hurt a little less.

[angora]

Brian Tyree Henry!  I love Atlanta!  I cracked when he stopped himself to muse over the fact that he'd just said "rabble-rouser."

I loved the joke about Santa not being welcome in America anymore because he's a flying immigrant with a beard.

The real reason we're stuck with the Electoral College:  what would pundits and pollsters do with they couldn't make their hypothetical red state/blue state maps in the run-up to an election?

[ganesh]

Maine awards electors proportional to the vote. The States have the authority to do this, so you don't need an amendment. So there is a less difficult path. Everyone is yelling about getting rid of it entirely but that just isn't going to happen. 

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

Maine awards electors proportional to the vote.

That makes a lot of sense. What possibly can the arguments be against that?

I watched Atlanta and really enjoyed it. So different from episode to episode. That bit with the invisible car caught me off-guard and cracked me up. It took me a couple of eps to warm to Brian Tyree Henry and the guy who plays his roommate who is hilarious.

What the heck was Cruz talking about in the MOZ? 

[ganesh]

I don't know, but I'm surprised no one on TDS picked up on that. They did the piece explaining the constitution, but elections are really a state power. The electoral college is the only thing in it. There's no real rules laid out. There's only like half the states where the electors are legally bound to vote for the popular vote winner. They kind of let a lot of valuable information on the table. 

[ChelseaNH]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

What the heck was Cruz talking about in the MOZ? 

Taste test between Arkansas cheese dip vs Texas queso, for some reason.  Wacky senatorial shenanigans.

[possibilities]

11 hours ago, angora said:

Brian Tyree Henry!

Love him and love his shirt. I haven't seen that slogan since the 1970s, but it's sadly still relevant.

[Temperance]

14 hours ago, ganesh said:

Maine awards electors proportional to the vote. The States have the authority to do this, so you don't need an amendment. So there is a less difficult path. Everyone is yelling about getting rid of it entirely but that just isn't going to happen. 

Quote

Peeayebee  That makes a lot of sense. What possibly can the arguments be against that?

The problem with this solution is that let's say New York  pass a law that awards electoral votes proportional to their vote but  say Texas doesn't. Then for example,  Trump gets all of Texas's electors (like he did) and some of New York's and wins even more the of EC than he did. 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Temperance

[purist]

Trevor is on a hot streak - that segment on the Carrier clusterfuck was brilliant.

I wasn't so keen on the DJ Khaled interview. Is that guy for real? Relentless positivity, catchphrases, and motivational skincare products? If I didn't know he was a real person, I would have thought he was a comedian. Also: I found it quite odd that some of the audience applauded when he said his positive outlook on life is all down to God. I mean, I know America is a way more religious country than mine (Australia), but if someone said that on a talk show over here, they certainly wouldn't be applauded. Most probably the audience wouldn't react at all; or there would be a bemused silence.

[Victor the Crab]

Have barely been able to follow this show for awhile. I can't find anything funny about Drumph now that his smirking, satisfying, ugly face is going to run America, and quite possibly into the ground. Lord knows Trevor and company do their best, but it already feels like defeat.

And while I like Van Jones, I'm not buying his opinion on why many voters selecting Drumph as president. Most of his platform was to slander and attack Mexicans, Muslims, and anyone else who is not like him. Why else would he get an endorsement from the Ku Klux Klan - the first time they endorsed a presidential candidate. Plus, why would blue collar Rust Belt workers vote for him? Are they not the least bit aware of how he does business and how terrible a businessman he really is? Drumph's been in the spotlight for three decades, so it's not like he came out of nowhere. And even if everybody does eventually turn on him, as Jones describes, there's nothing they can do. The deed is done and they will end up screwed beyond belief once Drumph and the Republicans permanently reshape the country in their own twisted, hypocritical image.

And Trevor may have thought bringing on Tomi Lahren would be a good way to reach out to her and allow her to think about what she's saying and learn from it, as they are pretty much both in the same generational area. But, from that post mortem she did on her show, it's clear she had no intent to learning anything, and declared herself a champion for going into the so-called lions den of TDS liberals and standing her ground while attacking them for being hypocrites She reminded me of Judith Miller when she was a guest last year and Jon hammered her on her shoddy journalism that led to the invasion of Iraq. She just sat there and didn't believe for one moment what she did was wrong. How do you reach out to people like that in an age when truth and reality get steamrolled. It was a fucking waste of time on Trevor's part to interview her.

Well, the one good thing in this post 11/8 era is that now I can get to sleep at a decent time and not stay up and watch it. I can recorded it and FF through the depressing Drumph shit the next day. Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have to prepare for my weekend trip to Toronto as I'll watch and cheer on my Toronto FC in the MLS Cup Final live and in person. Cheers!

[Hanahope]

4 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

Plus, why would blue collar Rust Belt workers vote for him? Are they not the least bit aware of how he does business and how terrible a businessman he really is? Drumph's been in the spotlight for three decades, so it's not like he came out of nowhere.

It appears that, for the most part, these people are so busy trying get through their days working, raising kids, etc., that they don't have much time to read or listen to news, more than just sound bites or the 30 minute program.  They know Trump because his name's on all sorts of crap, he's a visible presence on TV - shown mostly positively.  30 minute news programs don't have time to mention the thousands of lawsuits and multiple bankruptcies of Trump, there's either more important news, or more entertaining news (and frankly, "entertaining" is leaving important in the dust).  They see short bursts of "news" on Twitter or Facebook, and don't have time to read anything indepth.  They truly are uninformed, but don't care because they're too busy trying to get by.

[needschocolate]

Quote

Plus, why would blue collar Rust Belt workers vote for him? Are they not the least bit aware of how he does business and how terrible a businessman he really is? Drumph's been in the spotlight for three decades, so it's not like he came out of nowhere.

 

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

It appears that, for the most part, these people are so busy trying get through their days working, raising kids, etc., that they don't have much time to read or listen to news, more than just sound bites or the 30 minute program.  They know Trump because his name's on all sorts of crap, he's a visible presence on TV - shown mostly positively.  30 minute news programs don't have time to mention the thousands of lawsuits and multiple bankruptcies of Trump, there's either more important news, or more entertaining news (and frankly, "entertaining" is leaving important in the dust).  They see short bursts of "news" on Twitter or Facebook, and don't have time to read anything indepth.  They truly are uninformed, but don't care because they're too busy trying to get by.

Good theory.  I have another one --

I have noticed for a while that the Republican party tends to be copycats, in that whatever the Republican party says is wrong with the Democratic candidate during an election, ends up being something that can be applied to the Rep candidate in a future election.  And, not only do they copy the Dems, they usually have to "one up" them.  For instance -

-- In 1992, the Reps said that Bill Clinton shouldn't be president because he went to Oxford to avoid going to Vietnam, then, in 2000 they nominate GW Bush, who enlisted in the Texas National Guard to avoid going to Vietnam.  

--- Around 1997, the Reps tried to get Bill Clinton out office because they claimed he is a sexual predator.  In 2016 they elected a man who admitted on tape to being a sexual predator.

-- In 2008, the Reps said that Obama wasn't qualified to be president because he didn't have enough experience, since he had only been a Senator for 2 years.  In 2016, they nominated a man who has zero political experience and has little to no understanding of how the constitution and the government work.  

So, why did all these blue collar workers vote for Trump? Well, in 2008, part of Obama's campaign was the message of "Hope" and the Reps made fun of that.   Staying true to form, the Reps are the ones who based their vote on "hope" - they hoped that he was saying about bringing jobs back to the US and making was actually possible.  

I am, sort of, joking here , although all the examples are true.  The hypocrisy is slowing killing me.  

[Cyranetta]

Delighted that President Obama will be one of Trevor's interviews next week and really looking forward to their conversation.

[peeayebee]

15 hours ago, Temperance said:

The problem with this solution is that let's say New York  pass a law that awards electoral votes proportional to their vote but  say Texas doesn't. Then for example,  Trump gets all of Texas's electors (like he did) and some of New York's and wins even more the of EC than he did. 

I meant if every State had the proportional electoral votes, then there doesn't seem to be a reason to be against it. Or am I missed something else?
 

Quote

Plus, why would blue collar Rust Belt workers vote for him? Are they not the least bit aware of how he does business and how terrible a businessman he really is?

I've heard so many theories and reasons, and all of them make sense. I don't think there's any one reason he got the votes. Another reason I read recently is that there really were people so disgusted by the Govt that they wanted to burn it all down without any thought of what the replacement would be. Just, raze it and we'll figure it out later.

[Victor the Crab]

30 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I've heard so many theories and reasons, and all of them make sense. I don't think there's any one reason he got the votes. Another reason I read recently is that there really were people so disgusted by the Govt that they wanted to burn it all down without any thought of what the replacement would be. Just, raze it and we'll figure it out later.

Oh boy! Be careful what you wish for, eh?

[redfish]

Quote

Plus, why would blue collar Rust Belt workers vote for him? Are they not the least bit aware of how he does business and how terrible a businessman he really is?

Some get their information from TV news like Fox or the Apprentice. They don't bother to check beyond that. They see Trump and TV and assume he knows what he's doing. Image always trumps (bad pun) reality. He's a great con man and heavy into denial, he never lets on how badly he did things. I mean a reporter polled some Trump voters and when they asked about certain things like unemployment (they thought it was higher) and the stock market (they thought it had crashed), they were way off the mark.