TDS 3.0: Season Two Talk

[possibilities]

I think Silver is smug and full of himself and he is worse than worthless as a pundit. His speculation and opinions I find thoroughly lacking in insight and easily dismissable. HOWEVER, when it comes to statistical matters, he's very transparent and if you actually read what he wrote on his site-- you know, the articles where he several times a week explained the numbers in his predictions-- he repeatedly said that a 75% chance of Hillary winning meant that in one out of 4 simulations, TRUMP would win, which is anything but a slam dunk for the Dems.

We have to either stop taking polls at all, which is apparently what Trevor was suggesting, or we have to learn how the hell to read them, which is what Silver advocates constantly, on 538. It's not Silver's fault that people want to ignore the data and interpret it to their own fantasies. He tried more than anyone I know of to explain what the numbers meant, but the Dems were too smug and living in a bubble of their own farts to actually believe that the very people they called deplorable might not be a sure win for their side.

Changing topic, I think it's interesting that Trevor's been doing two interviews per show lately. It's like they've decided to stop writing, and just do the easy stuff. I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. I do think the interviews have been better lately, because he's choosing interesting guests and not just pushing whatever movie is looking to fill seats over the weekend. But I worry that the show itself is giving up, or the network is cutting the staff and planning to pull the plug, or... something.

[zxy556575]

I wouldn't mind the show taking more of a turn to the "talk" side of the equation, as long as guests are from the political or non-fiction arena. I absolutely wouldn't want an extended parade of movie-pushing celebrities.

The extra guests seems to be at the expense of the correspondent segments, which I'm okay with. I like many of their remote stand up set pieces, but it makes me uncomfortable to see oblivious interview subjects being put on the spot and mocked. I wouldn't mind having those be very infrequent.

[theatremouse]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. I do think the interviews have been better lately, because he's choosing interesting guests and not just pushing whatever movie is looking to fill seats over the weekend. But I worry that the show itself is giving up, or the network is cutting the staff and planning to pull the plug, or... something.

I think he's still a terrible interviewer, and the interview segments are edited horribly, conspicuously so. I don't really think this is the case, but it almost makes me wonder if they're trying to force him to do a lot more in a short period of time hoping it improves him rapidly so they have more choice down the road. I imagine it's also convenient if their writers are largely still very upset. And interview is easier than writing. Although I don't know how far in advance they plan these things, I imagine they must work on a pretty short lead time since they're usually trying to be extremely topical.

Edited November 19, 2016 by theatremouse

[angora]

Quote

I didn't get the joke Trevor was making about making a killing in the Philippines and Detroit or whatever, but the audience groaned. What did he say and mean?

President Duterte of the Philippines is cozying up to Trump's business guy there, presumably to keep on Trump's good side by facilitating the continued lining of his pockets, with the implication that Trump will then look the other way on the horrific things Duterte is doing to his people.  So, Trump could say to Duterte, "You're making a killing," (a literal one, with his death squads,) "and so am I!" (financially, by building towers in the Philippines.)

[peeayebee]

(moved from Guest thread)

I enjoyed the guest, and I just put his book on hold at the library. 

I didn't get the joke Trevor was making about making a killing in the Philippines and Detroit or whatever, but the audience groaned. What did he say and mean?

It's so maddening how everyone NOW is talking about the conflict of interest that Trump has in being President and having businesses/property all over the world. Like Trevor said, the focus was on Hillary's emails. Gaaaaah! I doubt Trump can be convinced to sell his assets, as I've read he should do, but there's no way he can NOT be in an unethical and unconstitutional position. Of course in the NYT interview he said he can handle his business perfectly and handle the Presidency perfectly. Oh okay. Great. No worries!

4 hours ago, angora said:

President Duterte of the Philippines is cozying up to Trump's business guy there, presumably to keep on Trump's good side by facilitating the continued lining of his pockets, with the implication that Trump will then look the other way on the horrific things Duterte is doing to his people.  So, Trump could say to Duterte, "You're making a killing," (a literal one, with his death squads,) "and so am I!" (financially, by building towers in the Philippines.)

Thanks. I thought Trevor said something about Detroit and Obama. No? ... Oh, maybe I misheard 'Duterte' as 'Detroit.'

[Hanahope]

I could easily see the House deciding to impeach Trump for his conflicts of interest, and I hope they do.  Not that I like Pence, I don't.  I would hate having him as president, but at least I wouldn't fear a complete loss of the respect and corruption of the presidency.  The Republicans don't get much respect from me for their cheating and inflammatory tactics in winning elections, but it would go a long way to trying to earn back any measure of respect if they impeached Trump.

[angora]

Monday's story on Trump's business dealings was good.  I appreciated Trevor's disdain at the fact that we know the size and shape of Anthony Weiner's dick but not how/if our new president plans on NOT abusing his position to increase his own wealth, and all the examples given were gross, especially looking at Duterte and the Philippines.

As for last night, the show was spot-on with Trump's total lack of relationship with facts.  Trevor touched on a lot of good points - the heretofore go-to politician tactic of lying with the AID of facts, the impossibility of winning an argument against someone who doesn't care about facts, and the way the media is openly at a loss for how to address this.  The goblins/unicorns analogy was a perfect demonstration of how Trump plays everyone and gets them chasing their tails over all his preposterous shit (except the stuff he actually DOES say has emboldened people to commit acts of racist harassment/violence, could lead to reducing US efforts to fight climate change, etc.)

[Arcadiasw]

The toddler argument fits Trump. I doubt journalist will use that argument against him. 

[peeayebee]

It's so frustrating trying to figure out how to deal with him. The tweets are distractions. I find it hard to believe that Trump is doing that deliberately because I don't think he's that smart... I dunno. Maybe he IS doing it deliberately many times. Bad news about him or his entourage comes out, so he decides to distract with a tweet or two. Anyway, I can't see news outlets ignoring it.

John McCain sounded very sane: He has better things to do than pay attention to every little tweet from DT.

I can never remember that actor's name, but the first time I saw him was in The 4400. Good show, at least for a while.

I loved Trevor doing his impression of the Revolutionary War British soldier. His toddler impression and that conversation was fun, too.

[zxy556575]

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Anyway, I can't see news outlets ignoring it.

If it has nothing to do with politics or policies, why not ignore it? If it's the rantings of a crazy man running his mouth over nothing, why not ignore it? Trump is abnormal. Why continue letting him suck the air out of the room over micro twitter beefs with celebrities?

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I can never remember that actor's name, but the first time I saw him was in The 4400. Good show, at least for a while.

Me, too, and I don't know why a role from 2004 sticks in my head when I've forgotten what I watched last week.

Edited December 1, 2016 by lordonia

[possibilities]

I liked the toddler approach. I think it is as good as any other angle the media has taken in handling the monster they created. I was actually thinking it might work, to some degree. And I loved the headlines that identify lies-- don't count on people to read the article or listen to the report, clearly the details are not of interest to many people, and if they call it lies in the title, it's still sensationalistic enough to grab attention. Cynicism, or realism? Both/and.

The thing is, though, that we're dealing with a toddler who has the ability to blow up the entire planet in a tantrum. And a lot of people ENJOY and AGREE WITH his BS. Trump could disappear tomorrow and we'd still have millions of people who are just like him, and now know that if they band together, they can be very powerful.

The time to ignore him was when he first started trying to get attention. But since the press thought it was entertaining, and gave him a platform, now he's a fully armed out of control spoiled brat toddler, not just a cute little goof.

I'm liking Trevor a lot lately. I think his experience in South Africa really helps him parse the situation here. Not that our situation is all that subtle or mysterious, but still... when he talks about his process (more when other people interview him than on TDS), I really think he does have insight.

[formerlyfreedom]

Trevor, please be my boyfriend. Thank you.

[nichelle]

I think I fell in love with Trevor all over again tonight.

[LJonEarth]

Well somebody did their debate prep. That was one of the better interviews of that type I think I've ever seen. The only thing that was lacking was to compare and contrast her feelings about BLM protests with her feelings about Tea Party protests (I'm assuming there's a difference).

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, lordonia said:

If it has nothing to do with politics or policies, why not ignore it? If it's the rantings of a crazy man running his mouth over nothing, why not ignore it? Trump is abnormal. Why continue letting him suck the air out of the room over micro twitter beefs with celebrities?

I didn't mean that the media shouldn't ignore DT's tweets; I meant I don't see how the media CAN ignore them. There is a junk-food hunger for these tweets, like following the Kardashians and rubbernecking at car crashes. Many people want to read about this stuff, so there are going to be news shows, websites, etc., that will feed this hunger. I sincerely hope that some news organizations will ignore them. 

What an awful guest. I guess they hadn't invited her on the show. Trevor did great.

[Lantern7]

Wow. If that had been me hosting, they would have shown "Tomi" ranting, then the camera would cut to me, with blood coming out of my eyes, ears and nose. And I'm white. And wow, when was the last time a TDS audience turned on a guest? I don't think Bill O"Reilly ever got booed during his jousts with Jon. If the preshow comic promised the crowd money for being on their best non-partisan behavior, they did not collect.

And thanks, Jordan, for bringing up my concern that Trevor might not be around in a few months. Even as a joke, it feels too close to home.

[zxy556575]

The interactions between Trevor and Roy have seriously become one of my top 5 TV things:

"You riding that Apartheid train harder than Mandela."
"Siri thinks all Black fingerprints are the same."
"Ricky got murdered by a dude in a Hyundai!"

My only disappointment was Roy calling him Trevor instead of African.

[DeLurker]

I needed to shower after watching that wench - ugh!  I suspect Trevor is in a decontamination tent now.

I wanted to turn it off 1 minute in, but I tougher it out.  Trevor did a good job, but Tomi was just going to spin her drivel.

[ottoDbusdriver]

21 minutes ago, DeLurker said:

I needed to shower after watching that wench - ugh!  I suspect Trevor is in a decontamination tent now.

I wanted to turn it off 1 minute in, but I tougher it out.  Trevor did a good job, but Tomi was just going to spin her drivel.

She's basically Ann Coulter 2.0 -- I wonder if she has book she's peddling, and that's why she went on the show.

[Lantern7]

And they went past 11:31. I feel bad for people who don't care about the show and DVRed @Midnight. Isn't that what the website is for . . .  Trevor trying not to scream or laugh, holding onto the desk as the roller coaster ride continued indefinitely?

[possibilities]

Black Lives Matter officially condemned the Dallas shooting. It got a huge amount of media attention when they did so. Tomi is either working very very hard to not know this, or (more likely) is knowingly exploiting the situation exactly the way Trump does: hit a vein of delusional outrage and ride it to personal glory.

Edited December 1, 2016 by possibilities

[cyberfruit]

I wish Trevor got Tomi when she kept evading the question of how should Black people protest in this country (a damn good question), and she tried to say that at one time, as a woman, she would not have been allowed to vote. He should have gone, okay...and how do you think Women's Suffrage came to be? You think those women batted their eyelashes and said, "Can we vote now, pretty please?" Like, no, they protes--I mean, picketed. Which is different, I guess.

Fuck out of here. 

And when Tomi kept trying to pretend like she didn't know why Kapernick was kneeling? And using that as a basis as why we as Americans shouldn't "disrespect" the flag and anthem? Anyone with a lick of sense can go on google and type, "Why is Colin Kapenick protesting?" She's tryna lowkey play dumb/bewildered without giving her platform away and using the buzzwords of "flag", "America", "anthem", and "rights" to pander to her audience. I see right through her schtick. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by cyberfruit

[abstractstuff]

She tryna be honest about shit while very carefully tiptoeing around everything or else her blonde little head will be on a stick. She's the loud ignorant bobble head that is pretty much speaking truth, but, is going about it in a way that offends and hurts the feelings.. She is the other side of the ignorants of the BLM crew shouting about frying bacon and killing cops.  But, as racist and wrong and ignorant as you want to see her. She has serious points. Not that she came up with them herself. though. This will most definitely be a very interesting next few years. It is beyond disheartening to see the knee people have taken in regards to their own dignity and choosing to be punished for the past of this country.. Not everyone is on their knees though, on either side. Bet.  

[niklj]

Why the heck did they invite her onto the show and give her and her hateful ideas more exposure?! I've never heard of her before tonight and I wish I could still say that was the case.

[Delwyn]

I watched this through my fingers and couldn't believe the stuff that came out of this Tomi person's mouth. I don't think I could have been as polite and logical as Trevor was. He is a bigger person than me, because I would have tossed my gloves down on the desk and shouted "Come at me, bro!" after she said "What did the KKK do?" Are you effing serious with that ridiculousness? 

[abstractstuff]

Because people that you deem as hateful must be completely shut out.. People need to seriously really watch what's going on.. The fact that her even being on the show is causing a stir and people crying as to why she was even able to have a platform.. Come on guys.. Slippery slope we are heading for. Suck it up and deal with shit. Don't snowflake out and crumble because you heard hateful words and ideas.. Jesus

challenge her bullshit.. don't cry about the fact you had to hear it with your ears. 

[vibeology]

The problem with Tomi and her ilk is they cannot be challenged since she just ignores anything that doesn't fit into her racist narrative. She never answered Trevor's very reasonable question no matter how many times he asked because she has no answer to that question. Everything a black man can do to show his displeasure for something will be wrong to her eyes but she knows she can't admit that so she dodges over and over. 

I've seen enough of her online to know she's a racist but I have to admit I was still shocked by her "What did the KKK do?" comment. Normally racists like her know that the KKK isn't a group you can use lightly in public discourse in you want to stay under the radar. I think it showed very clearly that when she's not in her safe scripted environment, she isn't up for a real debate. She was very lucky that Trevor's answer was so tame because public lynchings with group photos sprung to my mind immediately. Or the Tulsa bombings. To compare BLM to firebombing city blocks and killing hundreds of people in a day is either insanity or intentional race bating.

[cyberfruit]

7 hours ago, abstractstuff said:

She tryna be honest about shit while very carefully tiptoeing around everything or else her blonde little head will be on a stick. She's the loud ignorant bobble head that is pretty much speaking truth, but, is going about it in a way that offends and hurts the feelings.. She is the other side of the ignorants of the BLM crew shouting about frying bacon and killing cops.  But, as racist and wrong and ignorant as you want to see her. She has serious points. Not that she came up with them herself. though. This will most definitely be a very interesting next few years. It is beyond disheartening to see the knee people have taken in regards to their own dignity and choosing to be punished for the past of this country.. Not everyone is on their knees though, on either side. Bet.  

Uh...honest about what? She can use the same talking points about people using BLM to claim they want to kill cops (they DON'T), but the KKK has literally made a history of stringing up Black people and leaving them swinging from trees. 

"Fuck the police" cannot be compared to a group with a history of that.  

Also, as Trevor pointed out during the show, the actual people behind BLM roundly condemned the sniper attacks in Dallas, but Tomi and her ilk continue to ignore that because it doesn't fit their narrative. The KKK is white supremacy (oh, excuse me, white nationalism) personified and was created to further subjugate African-Americans after Reconstruction (and later Jews and then all the other races and ethnicities who moved to the U.S. who weren't White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant).

Black Lives Matter is a movement created to shed light on institutionalized racism and police brutality against Black people (and do not even try to bring up that tired statistic about how cops kill more white people -- white people make up 70% of this country, so of course numbers are going to be higher on their end. We're talking about disproportionate violence and death against a group whose population is 13-14% of the country and the subsequent failure to prosecute. And even then, since white people are being killed more, why aren't y'all more upset about this? Why is this country okay with cops shooting to kill in situations that don't call for it, like routine traffic stops?) Their platforms are not even nearly remotely the same. 

To compare BLM to the KKK is just beyond ignorant -- it's stupid. Completely stupid. And anyone who still tries to argue this point, like Tomi, is a willfully ignorant person aka stupid. There is too much information about both of these groups to still come to this conclusion of them being the same. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by cyberfruit

[abstractstuff]

Honest with her truth. Honest with the complete and utter bullshit a huge portion of this country is balls out ready for. Of course certain comparisons are ignorant. That, no longer matters. Someone will come on a show like this, show their ass, people will be upset and talk about how wrong it is.. The KKK is bad, black people have suffered! Police brutality! Does not matter to those who represent a quieter  festering boil in the country that just fucking popped.  Trevor can pat himself on the back knowing he threw bobble head, softball after softball.. It's all a farce. But there is a very large segment of this country that is pumped the hell up. State the obvious all day long about their racism and talk about past atrocities until you are blue in the face. Are we finally getting that the tears and pain of the past is their fuel? You think for a second little Miss Tomi Lahren would stand a chance with anyone that would be willing to look past her "hotness" and treat her like the simple minded disposable mouth piece she is? No.. 

[cyberfruit]

Ugh, I hate to agree with you, Abstactstuff, but you are right. She is a mouthpiece for the previously covert racists that permeate this country. I hadn't heard of her until last night (and wish I could go back and time, tbh), but that clip of her talkshow was a line by line reprisal of Fox News, white mansplainers, that old friend from highschool on your fb with an IQ of 150 who always needs to tell you about it, and Baby Boomer vs. Millennial thinkpieces. Saying all of the dumb things that came out of her mouth use to be reprehensible, and they still should be but not anymore!

And it all comes wrapped in a little blonde-haired package from Dallas. Racism you can jack-off to.  

(Being from Texas, I've always said that if the major cities were sisters, Dallas is the bougie, conservative one that everyone rolls their eyes at)

Edited December 1, 2016 by cyberfruit

[ganesh]

"He's doing it the wrong way" = "Know your place, boy." Any argument justifying your position just exposes your ignorance and invalidates any credibility you might have had. 

I'm not surprised she said that. I don't believe the a second she knows or cares about anything she said. She's promoting her own brand and that's it. Just like Coulter, although not nearly as polished. You could see her thinking, "now I say flag" "then bacon" "turn it back to my feelings". 

[angora]

I went into this episode intrigued but apprehensive.  Trevor can do a lot of things very well, but although his interview game has improved quite a bit since last year, it's still something he can struggle with, and I wasn't sure how it would go.  But wow - I thought he really brought it last night.  I was so impressed with his quickness, his clarity, and more than anything, just the approach he took.  When someone else goes, "I'm not trying to trap/challenge you or make you into the bad guy, I honestly just want to know WHY," it can feel disingenuous, but I believe Trevor when he says it.  I loved him repeatedly pushing her to answer his "if not marching/protesting/kneeling during the National Anthem, then HOW?" question.  It reminded me a little of his routine about police shootings on his Lost in Translation special, with his refrain of "I don't know how NOT to die."

I watched the extended interview on the website this morning, and there was a point where Trevor mentioned the alt-right and Trump in the same breath, and Tomi got all, "Whoa, just because SOME Trump supporters are alt-right doesn't mean you can put that label on all/most Trump supporters," after she'd JUST been willfully refusing to acknowledge Trevor's assertion that a small minority of individuals advocating violence shouldn't be equated with BLM as a whole.  Not even the barest hint of irony - wow.

[abstractstuff]

Right. Exactly.  Yet, as it goes, and what we are seeing is, the gloves are off. So, call them stupid, attack their IQ, compare them to Coulter, whatever.. It doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, we are all aware she's mean, people are mean.. So let's just continue on calling them mean and posting our hurt feelings on blogs.. Be fucking ready. That's all it's going to come down to. Sticking daisies down the barrels and calling people racist, isn't going to do a thing. Some are ready to wipe the "crying gay ass pussy liberals" out, and they aren't playing. Calling them nazi's and meanies.. Well, you'll see how far you will get face to face with people like that. 

[zxy556575]

8 hours ago, niklj said:

Why the heck did they invite her onto the show and give her and her hateful ideas more exposure?! I've never heard of her before tonight and I wish I could still say that was the case.

Trevor did a segment on her earlier this year when he first found out about her. He was intrigued by someone so young building such a huge (and hateful) platform. The statistics for "watching" are in dispute but her videos are supposedly seen by millions of people, except because of Facebook's targeted content, many liberals have never heard of her.

[Hooper]

I'm impressed by the folks who were able to watch the whole 6 minutes last night, and Angora, you must have some sort of superpower to have watched the whole 26 minute extended interview.   I watched for about a minute or two before I had to leave the room to keep myself from trying to reach through the screen to strangle she who shall not be named.  I crept back into the room just in time to hear Trevor ask "well how should people protest", and  had to leave again within 30 seconds. 

From what I saw, I thought Trevor did fine, and I hope he's not a teetotaler because he must have desperately needed something to numb the pain by the time he was done.  But basically what he did was prove the premise of his main segment on Tues: you can't argue with a toddler.  In many ways I love the interweb (eg, I'm here); but I fear the consequences of a system of tubes that gives toddlers a mechanism to spew their tantrums to millions? of like minded toddlers, and enables one of them to become armed with nuclear warheads.

[ganesh]

47 minutes ago, angora said:

I loved him repeatedly pushing her to answer his "if not marching/protesting/kneeling during the National Anthem, then HOW?" question. 

And the fact that she can't answer the question straight up with a "he could wear a BLM t shirt during post game press conferences," or "hold a rally on his bye week" just underscores that she's not interested in solutions and just fanning the flames. I don't know if that was Trevor's intent but that's clearly what it looked like from my pov. The follow up "I don't like him disrespecting the flag" is the entire point. I think she gets that, but is just riding the "doing it the wrong" narrative.

She's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. Trevor gave her ample rope and she took it because she was so lasered in on doing her deal that she was just oblivious to what was going on. 

I do think it's important to have these odious people on. There are people who actually buy into this, and we should be aware. My problem is that Trevor is treating her deal as legit, when it's clearly an act, and I wish he got around to that. I think the "but how? you still haven't said how" was a good approach, but he seemed more incredulous at some of what she said rather than, "clearly, you're going to equate the KKK with BLM because you're trolling, and no one actually would equate the two."

[Loves2Dance]

1 hour ago, cyberfruit said:

Uh...honest about what? She can use the same talking points about people using BLM to claim they want to kill cops (they DON'T), but the KKK has literally made a history of stringing up Black people and leaving them swinging from trees. 

"Fuck the police" cannot be compared to a group with a history of that.  

Also, as Trevor pointed out during the show, the actual people behind BLM roundly condemned the sniper attacks in Dallas, but Tomi and her ilk continue to ignore that because it doesn't fit their narrative. The KKK is white supremacy (oh, excuse me, white nationalism) personified and was created to further subjugate African-Americans after Reconstruction (and later Jews and then all the other races and ethnicities who moved to the U.S. who weren't White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant).

Black Lives Matter is a movement created to shed light on institutionalized racism and police brutality against Black people (and do not even try to bring up that tired statistic about how cops kill more white people -- white people make up 70% of this country, so of course numbers are going to be higher on their end. We're talking about disproportionate violence and death against a group whose population is 13-14% of the country and the subsequent failure to prosecute. And even then, since white people are being killed more, why aren't y'all more upset about this? Why is this country okay with cops shooting to kill in situations that don't call for it, like routine traffic stops?) Their platforms are not even nearly remotely the same. 

To compare BLM to the KKK is just beyond ignorant -- it's stupid. Completely stupid. And anyone who still tries to argue this point, like Tomi, is a willfully ignorant person aka stupid. There is too much information about both of these groups to still come to this conclusion of them being the same. 

Not to mention, she essentially said that the few 'bad' apples of the BLM have to be counted with the BLM movement, but when Trevor tried to associate the Alt-Right (aka. White Nationalist) movement with Trump Supporters, they then needed to be separated. 

She's a walking contradiction and as a Millennial we don't want her. Perhaps the Baby Boomers can pick her up or something, because even Gen X and Y have said no thank you. 

[vibeology]

2 hours ago, cyberfruit said:

To compare BLM to the KKK is just beyond ignorant -- it's stupid. Completely stupid. And anyone who still tries to argue this point, like Tomi, is a willfully ignorant person aka stupid. There is too much information about both of these groups to still come to this conclusion of them being the same. 

The only place I disagreed with your brilliant post is here. I don't think she's ignorant. She knows what she's doing and either she is actively pushing this narrative because she looks down on black people or she knows that using this narrative will get her more attention. She didn't stumble into this by mistake. She actively is seeking out these racist comparisons because it plays well with her fanclub. The only question is does she genuinely believe it or is opportunistic but either way its racism.

[urusai]

"I'm a millennial so I don't really like labels"... LOL

[HolmesUltimateQu]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

Trevor did a segment on her earlier this year when he first found out about her. He was intrigued by someone so young building such a huge (and hateful) platform. The statistics for "watching" are in dispute but her videos are supposedly seen by millions of people, except because of Facebook's targeted content, many liberals have never heard of her.

BBM -- Big shout-out to Facebook's targeted content. You the real MVP. 

I hadn't heard of her until Trevor mentioned her those few months ago and I was a better person for it. 

[cyberfruit]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

The only place I disagreed with your brilliant post is here. I don't think she's ignorant. She knows what she's doing and either she is actively pushing this narrative because she looks down on black people or she knows that using this narrative will get her more attention. She didn't stumble into this by mistake. She actively is seeking out these racist comparisons because it plays well with her fanclub. The only question is does she genuinely believe it or is opportunistic but either way its racism.

You have a good point here; she's definitely calculating, however I do think she's a stupid person because there wasn't a single critical thought to any of the points she tried to make. This was her time to shine in front of the liberals and she had nothing to back up her talking points. It was just buzz, buzz, buzz and she was getting frustrated and her frustration revealed her weaknesses. 

And she's definitely racist. She gave herself away when she said:

1. She doesn't see color (lol). 

2. Said, "What, because I'm white I can't talk about this?". It's damn near an old racist's stand-by, faux indignation included. To my recollection, Trevor never talked about her whiteness. Sure, he's thinking it, we were all thinking it, but she played herself by voicing it. I'm glad Trevor calmly replied, "I never talked about your race." She thought she had a checkmate because usually when *that* question appears, people fall over themselves to say, "No one's saying that white people can't talk about this.", and then the argument turns into squabbling over why Black people can say "x" and white people can't. Nope!

Edited December 1, 2016 by cyberfruit

[ganesh]

She's not ignorant. She knows exactly what she's doing. Unlike Coulter, however, she's not nearly as smart as she thinks she is, and is banking on 'look at me, I'm a (societal) pretty blond woman' which she brought up to Trevor, and the talk fast and loud, to hide that she doesn't know much at all beyond those code words. She was expecting Trevor to volley typical liberal talking points and not "I'm going to treat you like a person and take what you say at face value; you tell me what you mean exactly by, this and this and that." And she couldn't. She's used to having all the spotlight because her FB rants are solo afaik. 

She's definitely mining racism for sure though. 

[cyberfruit]

Oh, and can we talk about that disgusting comment she made about Bill and Hillary at the end of the interview? Cheating is fucked up, but Hillary forgave them and they're a united front, so let it go. Tomi came off as so sophomoric and nasty for that crass remark. 

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder to be civil to each other in here. Also, don't beat the dead horse. Your point does not need to be made again and again and again. Posts that do so will be removed going forward, and warnings or suspensions may occur if someone can't let it go.

[peeayebee]

Just adding my two cents since I didn't really comment on her before: I think that like Coulter she is being deliberately provocative but isn't as skilled or creative with it as Coulter. It seems like Tomi has a bag she pulls lines from, but she can't really do improv. She may or may not believe what she says, but imo she's just trying to capitalize on a phenomenon, similarly to how those who create fake news sites rely on right wing mentality to drive traffic.

[Hanahope]

Trevor did a better job than I expected he would.  Good for him.  I still don't like the idea of giving that ilk a platform, but I suppose its good to exercise those muscles to respond to that ilk every so often so you can be prepared later.

But this was a good example of why you can't really treat Trump like a toddler even.  They just ignore what your saying/asking and say whatever point they want to get across anyway.  What the media has to do is announce how X won't answer this question, or X continued to dodge this question.  Keep their feet to the fire.

[possibilities]

I do think it's important to develop an effective response to people like Tomi, but I also agree that just giving them attention isn't it. They love the attention, feed off it whether it's congratulatory or critical. Booing them may be OK as a way to vent and express ones own horror, but I don't think it is effective as a way to change their minds at all-- it actually fuels their self-pity and gives them fodder for the "I'm a victim" mentality they so cherish (while simultaneously denying). "Those liberals talk about diversity but they are rude and they don't listen to anyone but themselves!"

That defensive wall of reversal (they spew hatred and then feel like they are victims rather than instigators when it comes back to them) is a tactic they use to deflect from the content of what they are saying, and turn the outrage back on the people who are disagreeing, without ever dealing with why there is disagreement. That's why I thought Trevor was trying to treat her like a rational person, and his constant politeness and even lack of expressed outrage are strategic. It's exhausting and at some level futile (she's not having a rational conversation where any of his questions are answered or where he himself is treated with the same respect he's offering to her), and it didn't show any signs of penetrating her shell of BS, but it's a shell that she has built up and fortified and been rewarded for very powerfully, so one conversation is not likely to totally dismantle it. But I do think Trevor is on to something. People who cultivate and feed on irrationality and anger need to be handled in a way that deprives them of the fuel-- without leaving them unchecked. I don't know that Trevor's style of dialogue is the only tool we need, but I do think there's something very powerful about it. 

[fastiller]

15 minutes ago, possibilities said:

That defensive wall of reversal (they spew hatred and then feel like they are victims rather than instigators when it comes back to them) is a tactic they use to deflect from the content of what they are saying, and turn the outrage back on the people who are disagreeing, without ever dealing with why there is disagreement. That's why I thought Trevor was trying to treat her like a rational person, and his constant politeness and even lack of expressed outrage are strategic. It's exhausting and at some level futile (she's not having a rational conversation where any of his questions are answered or where he himself is treated with the same respect he's offering to her), and it didn't show any signs of penetrating her shell of BS, but it's a shell that she has built up and fortified and been rewarded for very powerfully, so one conversation is not likely to totally dismantle it. But I do think Trevor is on to something. People who cultivate and feed on irrationality and anger need to be handled in a way that deprives them of the fuel-- without leaving them unchecked. I don't know that Trevor's style of dialogue is the only tool we need, but I do think there's something very powerful about it. 

I haven't yet watched yesterday's episode, but I think that the area I bolded ties in well with what TN was saying earlier in the week about how conversations with DJT should be treated like conversations with a toddler. 

[redfish]

Quote

I haven't yet watched yesterday's episode, but I think that the area I bolded ties in well with what TN was saying earlier in the week about how conversations with DJT should be treated like conversations with a toddler. 

Right. Every time TN kept asking one question over and over again, her response was to keep repeating talking points as a default setting instead of offering a real honest of opinion to a solution. Which only showed she doesn't have an idea, she just wants to criticize and spew rants and talking points like a good puppet instead be part of the solution. And she was pretty hyper like a toddler, I guess that's why her internet clips are brief. And before she talks about the flag and patriotism and the privilege of being an American she should check her history out. She was awful but that was the point of the interview maybe she needs to be exposed how awful she was and kind of stupid, a meat puppet that parrots talking points and if we don't see what the other side is thinking and spreading out there we don't know how to counteract it. You can't fight an idea without information on how they think, even if that's how they do it.

And when she said she doesn't see herself as victim. Well that's good for her, she's a pretty, young, blonde white girl, give enough time but she'll experience her first harassment case or be passed over for someone younger, prettier and crazier. Megyn Kelly and Gretchen Carlson never thought themselves as victims but they thought by going along to get along, they thought they were safe. That didn't work out for them. You don't have to see yourself as a "victim" to be treated crappily by the system.

[bittersweet4149]

6 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

Not to mention, she essentially said that the few 'bad' apples of the BLM have to be counted with the BLM movement, but when Trevor tried to associate the Alt-Right (aka. White Nationalist) movement with Trump Supporters, they then needed to be separated. 

She's a walking contradiction and as a Millennial we don't want her. Perhaps the Baby Boomers can pick her up or something, because even Gen X and Y have said no thank you. 

Nope. Boomers don't want her, either.