Sex And The City - General Discussion

[CleoCaesar]

I just hated the these people had all of New York and all they did was dress up and eat. Nobody saw a play or went to a concert or a museum or a library.

 

I agree. I live in NYC and even though I consider myself a homebody, I do my best to discover new museums and plays, and just get to find interesting places and activities in the city. What's the point of living here if you don't take advantage of it at least once in a while? It's not like Carrie was burdened with some high-stress, 60-hour-a-week job. To her the superficial image of New York - cultured, beautiful, powerful - was more important than the actual city, it seemed. Same goes, on a smaller scale, for Carrie's relationship with Paris - she spends years romanticizing it and then when she actually moves there, she gets bored in literally two weeks. And actually tells Miranda on the phone that she's "been to every museum, twice". AAAARGH you are in Paris! That's not only impossible, it is just insulting and stupid.

 

If the show had actually explored this idea - that Carrie was not in fact the quintessential cultured New Yorker, and that it was just as much a costume as any of her ridiculous outfits - it might have given Carrie some additional depth as a character.

[Hanahope]

Same goes, on a smaller scale, for Carrie's relationship with Paris - she spends years romanticizing it and then when she actually moves there, she gets bored in literally two weeks. And actually tells Miranda on the phone that she's "been to every museum, twice". AAAARGH you are in Paris! That's not only impossible, it is just insulting and stupid.

 

Definitely.  I spent a semester of school in London and the 3-1/2 days a week I didn't have school, I did so much sight-seeing with museums, walking tours, churches, castles (within a quick train ride), I still hadn't seen everything in 5 months. And most evenings I went to plays/musicals (having the time to stand in line for the inexpensive returns was definitely a plus).  I know Carrie was in Paris during the colder part of the year, but there is still so much to do its not funny.  No way could she see all the museums in 2 weeks, even once.

[Inquisitionist]

In Carrie's and the show's defense, I think she knew the line about seeing all the museums twice was an exaggeration.  The point is that Alex had led her to believe they would have a life together in Paris, and she quickly found herself "stranded" as he devoted all his attention to the show -- and expected her to be at his beck and call, but only when he needed her.   I liken it to Scarlett's Johansson's character, Charlotte, in Lost in Translation, a movie I loved.  Yes, she too could have done more to enjoy herself in Japan, but sometimes you just feel what you feel.  I thought LiT did a better job of conveying that than AAGiP did, but I can cut the latter some slack.

[SFoster21]

When I see a Sunday Times, I torture myself with all the great theater I'll never see unless PBS does me a solid.

Those women were shallow in the extreme.

[CleoCaesar]

In Carrie's and the show's defense, I think she knew the line about seeing all the museums twice was an exaggeration. 

 

I agree, it wasn't meant literally. But it was still pretty indicative of Carrie's inner life that she got bored in Paris so quickly. I know, she was unhappy that Big wasn't there and missed her friends, but damn girl, you're a writer...write. Do research. Meet new people. Explore the city, take notes. Brainstorm.

 

The point is that Alex had led her to believe they would have a life together in Paris, and she quickly found herself "stranded" as he devoted all his attention to the show -- and expected her to be at his beck and call, but only when he needed her.

 

I'd be more sympathetic to Carrie's case if Alex's behavior in Paris went on for months and months. They were in Paris literally a few weeks, and he had a major art show coming up, which Carrie knew about. She just wanted to be pampered, immediately so.

[Maherjunkie]

I have not yet been to Paris.  Would there still be somewhat of a language barrier?  I'm a bit of a Rose Nylund on the matter.

[SFoster21]

I have not yet been to Paris. Would there still be somewhat of a language barrier? I'm a bit of a Rose Nylund on the matter.

If you had the resources available to you in NYC, wouldn't you bother to learn the language of the place to which you were allegedly re-locating?

Carrie was supposed to be living there permanently! What did she have to offer a cosmopolitan artist once the sex faded? She was supposed to be late thirties though she looked older to me, so how long would the sex last?

She had no language, no culture, no interest in anything but clothes and cocktails.

[Maherjunkie]

Actually she did use a few phrases.  I was thinking more generally.

[Hanahope]

Well, then, that's another thing she could have done in Paris, hire a tutor to teach her conversational French.  There is still a bit of a language barrier, although there's enough people who know English for tourists to get by a little.

[Maherjunkie]

I heard they had an "attitude" about speaking it.

[psychoticstate]

I think Carrie always wanted more with Big. She wanted him to be madly in love with her or something and he wasn't, or at least didn't show how he felt the way she wanted him to. I'm ok with Big but I hated that they ended up together. For me it was totally unbelievable mainly because they were too different AND too selfish to buy them in a good relationship. And I always felt Big was curious about Carrie and sort of challenged by her but not really that much in love with her.

 

 

I agree with this completely.  I always felt that during the series, Big liked Carrie and enjoyed spending time with her but was never really in love with her.  She was crazy about him but she was really a glorified fuck buddy.  

 

In a way, her relationship with Aidan mirrored that.  Aidan was crazy about her but while I think Carrie loved Aidan as a person, she was never really in love with him. 

 

Carrie struck me as the kind of person who would think she had fallen for a man because said man indicated love or an interest in her. 

 

FWIW, while I eventually liked Big and Carrie together, I would think Big would go for someone more refined and educated (at least in appearance).  And definitely someone less squealy.

 

Regarding the show in general, I never cared as much for those episodes where they left the city.  I watched the show for the humor, the relationship between the women and seeing NYC.  I loved, loved, loved seeing NYC, whether it was a street scene, a park scene or seeing the women's apartments. 

 

I liked the baby shower scene in season 1 when Charlotte was upset that her baby name was stolen and Samantha said "you BITCH!!!" I loved that.

 

 

This is one of my absolute favorite scenes from the show for that reason.  Sam never hesitated, she immediately defended Charlotte and I loved it.

[Portae]

I agree, it wasn't meant literally. But it was still pretty indicative of Carrie's inner life that she got bored in Paris so quickly. I know, she was unhappy that Big wasn't there and missed her friends, but damn girl, you're a writer...write. Do research. Meet new people. Explore the city, take notes. Brainstorm.

 

As someone who lived in France for a year, I will say that Carrie's melancholy was one of the things that the show got absolutely right. It's HARD living in a country where you don't know the language and have no social support. I studied French for years before I got there, and I'm telling you, the minute that I stepped off of the plane, I realized how different the classroom is from the real world. As exciting as it may be to explore a new country, once the tourist feeling wears off, you're left with the daily grind of everyday life. Ordering lunch at a cafe, asking for directions (and trying to understand the response), reading the movie listings in the newspaper...all of those easy things that we take for granted in familiar settings become WORK. And then to not have anyone to talk to about those frustrations, or at least someone to grab a coffee with a chat for a bit? It's far more difficult than people can imagine. Granted, Carrie certainly had resources at her disposal that could have made that transition easier, but most of her experience there rang true to me.

[27bored]

As someone who lived in France for a year, I will say that Carrie's melancholy was one of the things that the show got absolutely right.

 

Yeah and that's why Carrie shouldn't have skipped her happy ass over there in the first place. Hell, she barely understood Aleks half the time and she figured she'd make it in another country? Girl, bye.

 

BTW: I'm at home drunk and the first movie is on, and the part where Carrie gave Louise (from St. Louis) the Louis Vuitton handbag. First of all, how many women under the age of 45 do you know are named "Louise"? I mean, how does a dude tell his boys about her without them thinking he's banging somebody's mama? "Yeah, I've been talking to this chick named Louise" I'd be like, "what's her sister's name? Mabel?" What the hell?

 

But anyway, weird name aside, am I the only one who thought that bag she gave her was fugly as fuck? I'm like, it's a sweet gesture and everything, but who wants that clown fish ass bag to walk around with? Even if it is Louis Vuitton, if you can't afford something nicer than that, Carrie, just give her a gift card to Macy's and be done with it.

Edited November 16, 2014 by 27bored

[saki]

I don't know whether this is a transatlantic thing but I know quite a number of women my age (30s) called Louise!

 

According to this - http://www.britishbabynames.com/blog/top-1000-names-in-england-and-wales-2012.html - it was the 291st most popular girl's name in 2012.

[SFoster21]

Maurice Chevalier had a hit song!

[Maherjunkie]

I have a feeling it is more of a Brit thing.  I can't see too many Tiffanys over there.

[psychoticstate]

I had Bravo on this morning while I was getting ready for work and the episode where Aidan moved out was on.  I know it was discussed ad nauseum over at TWOP but watching and hearing Carrie's petulant ungrateful ass berating Charlotte for not offering her money to buy her apartment just infuriated me.  Carrie took absolutely NO responsibility for her own financial situation and instead of getting angry with herself and her choices as she walked around her apartment, rhapsodizing over her ten years there and thinking that she would soon have to move out, she directed her anger at Charlotte and then made her feel guilty for still wearing her ring.

 

I think this was Carrie at her absolute worst.  Self-centered, unable to accept responsibility for her own place in life and being a miserable, shitty friend.  As Charlotte told her, Carrie was 35 years old and Charlotte was not responsible for Carrie's financial situation.

 

I never noticed it as much before (probably because I was gnashing my teeth over Carrie's assholery) but I was floored by Carrie asking Charlotte at their usual dining spot if Charlotte gave her ring back to Trey (when Carrie was telling the girls that it wouldn't be right for her to keep Aidan's ring.)  I agree wholeheartedly that it wouldn't have been right for Carrie to keep Aidan's ring since she bailed on the engagement/marriage but to suggest that Charlotte give her ring back?  Charlotte married Trey.  There was no reason for her to NOT keep the ring.

 

Sometimes I think Carrie suffered some sort of head injury that made it impossible for her to think logically and of others.  Ugh.

[Maherjunkie]

Saw "I heart NY" too.  It came CLOSE to replacing the Golden Girls in my morning routine.

[braziliangirl]

Interview with Liz Tuccilo:

 

http://www.elle.com/news/culture/liz-tuccillo-sex-and-the-city?src=spr_TWITTER&spr_id=1448_118044095&linkId=10973420

 

I think I would've liked the alternate ending.

[TVFan17]

I was really okay with the ending as it played out.  I know a lot of people were not happy with it, and felt that Carrie should have ended up unattached and still very happy, and that Samantha should have stayed unattached as well -- but I didn't mind how the series wrapped up.   Then again, I like a good, romantic happy ending in rom-com flicks, and in TV shows, and I liked how each woman's story ended in the series.  Actually, I think that the SATC finale was pretty good compared to the onslaught of truly bad series finales that have taken place in the last 10 years (dramas and comedies). 

Edited December 4, 2014 by Sherry67

[Woopah]

I liked the ending as it was too but I felt the last season was rushed compared to the other seasons

[ryebread]

I watched the last couple episodes on Bravo this a.m.  Call me a sap but I loved it all.  The French rap music that was playing when Carrie ran from the gallery to get to her ill fated party - cut to Miranda searching for Steve's mom on the streets of Brooklyn while the same music played.  Charlotte plating up the Chinese carry-out, Harry getting home and saying he got something from China, too and then the picture of their baby.  OMG I was crying before 9 a.m.  Magda kissing Miranda after observing the care in which Miranda took care of Steve's mom. Spring tulips blooming as Samantha and Smith finally have sex.  And Smith?  Hair, no hair.  Doesn't matter.  Hot hot hot.

 

The only thing I didn't like was when Big and Carrie got back to her apartment and she asked him if he wanted to spend the night and he says "Abso-fricken-lutely."  Eh.  He looked and sounded rather stupid.  Silently stepping out the car in his elegant cashmere coat would have been more effective.  But overall, the wrap up of the series was very satisfying for me. 

[Maherjunkie]

I thought that was editing.

[TVFan17]

I watched the last couple episodes on Bravo this a.m.  Call me a sap but I loved it all.  The French rap music that was playing when Carrie ran from the gallery to get to her ill fated party - cut to Miranda searching for Steve's mom on the streets of Brooklyn while the same music played.  Charlotte plating up the Chinese carry-out, Harry getting home and saying he got something from China, too and then the picture of their baby.  OMG I was crying before 9 a.m.  Magda kissing Miranda after observing the care in which Miranda took care of Steve's mom. Spring tulips blooming as Samantha and Smith finally have sex.  And Smith?  Hair, no hair.  Doesn't matter.  Hot hot hot.

 

The only thing I didn't like was when Big and Carrie got back to her apartment and she asked him if he wanted to spend the night and he says "Abso-fricken-lutely."  Eh.  He looked and sounded rather stupid.  Silently stepping out the car in his elegant cashmere coat would have been more effective.  But overall, the wrap up of the series was very satisfying for me. 

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who loved the finale!  I wiped tears from my eyes during many scenes -- all of the ones you mentioned and probably more.  I'm a big sap!

 

For me, the Smith/Samantha scene wasn't about Samantha and Smith finally having sex, but it was about the fact that he flew all the way from wherever he was filming just to tell her that he loved her... which made her eyes start to water.  And then she told him that he meant more to her than any man she'd ever known -- which, coming from Samantha, was a very big deal to say.  It was almost more powerful for her to say that to him than to simply tell him that she loved him too.  She was telling him that he actually meant something to her, which was significant to her.

 

I loved it when Big said "Absofuckinglutely" because it was a tip of the hat, a wink and a nudge back to the very first episode of the series, when he said the same thing from his car window after meeting Carrie.  It only lost some of its punch because it was edited to air on other networks, and then it became "Absofrickinlutely."

Edited December 4, 2014 by Sherry67

[ryebread]

I loved it when Big said "Absofuckinglutely" because it was a tip of the hat, a wink and a nudge back to the very first episode of the series, when he said the same thing from his car window after meeting Carrie.  It only lost some of its punch because it was edited to air on other networks, and then it became "Absofrickinlutely."

Ohhhh.  See I did not KNOW that.  I never watched SATC until the reruns started hitting Lifetime a couple years ago.  I'm pretty sure I've never seen the 1st episode or I might have remembered Big saying it the first time.  Having no frame of reference, it just seemed out of place and crass when he said it in the final episode. 

 

That said, after I realized that I was enjoying the episodes I watched sporadically, I bought every season on DVD from Costco, for a pittance, so I could see each in entirety.  Still haven't cracked the seals on them but I likely will soon.  The weatherman says it's going to be a brutal winter in Michigan.

 

I'm going to out-sap ya, here, Sherry67.  The final scene in the final epi - when Carrie comes into the diner and the girls all jump up to welcome her home?  Well after I saw that and wiped away the tears, I called 3 of my good friends just to tell them I loved 'em.  How's that for sap?  LOL  We're meeting for dinner next Thursday.

[Maherjunkie]

Lifetime?  You mean TBS or Logo?

[ryebread]

And...I also got the same message from the Samantha/Smith reunion.  I just didn't want to make my post longer than necessary. But while we're discussing them...

 

I loved when she was giving her speech and finally took the wig off. And when Smith jumped up to cheer her on.  Louder than anybody.  And that he shaved his head as she shaved her. He was so accepting.  So yeah, after he told her that just because a tree has lost it's leaves in the winter doesn't mean it'll never be spring again and the tulips bloomed, I thought that was nice symbolism.  That this whole new world for Samantha was opening up.  She'd given him permission to have sex with someone else while he was on location, only to realize that she loved him so much that she didn't want to share.  Also, like you said, her telling him he meant more to her than anyone ever had...huge for Samantha.  Just loved the way it wrapped up.  So nice and easy.  Unlike the final episodes for Sons of Anarchy this week and next.  LOL  But that's a whole nother world.  Nothing nice or easy or wrapped up in a pretty little package.

Lifetime?  You mean TBS or Logo?

Yes.  I believe it was TBS. 

[Woopah]

The 2nd part finale is on here tomorrow the bit will start again from Monday.

I liked the last two episodes

[27bored]

The part of the finale I liked best was Magda telling Miranda "what you did...that was love. You love." It was a nice scene. I'm glad Miranda learned to love someone other than Carrie.

And by the way, Big and Carrie had thoroughly worked my nerves by the end of the series. Big had bipolar and Carrie acted like she had a crayon lodged in her brain. Big only wanted her when he couldn't have her and Carrie's dumbass fell for it every single time.

[Maherjunkie]

I think he originally wanted her (god knows why) but she pushed him away after the church scene.

[27bored]

I kind of agree. I do think Carrie neurotically following Big and his mother to church caused him to pull away from her, but I do think Big only wanted Carrie when he couldn't have her. I think when she was clearly smitten with him, he played her hot and cold. It's about the only natural complex Big had that I believed because, as I've said, I think a lot of Big's "hang-ups" were more like Carrie's "insecurities" that the show couldn't bring itself to admit about her. And on the rare occasion that someone did call her on the carpet for it (i.e. Miranda in the store, Big after he'd come back from Paris), they instantly made them the bad guy and poor Carrie the victim.

 

To be clear, I don't think Carrie was wrong, per se, to break up with Big in the first place. Being in a relationship where you're never quite sure how the person feels about you, always feeling like you're working on their emotional timetable, and having them be weird about closeness and compartmentalizing their life so that you're only allowed in so far is a tough spot to be in. You feel used and jerked around and not in control. So I get Carrie not feeling like she could go on with Big. What I don't get is Carrie continuing to go back to him knowing how he is, letting him hurt her all over again, then indulging in his discontent with his grad-school-aged wife while simultaneously sabotaging and hurting Aiden, who was there for her in every way she wished Big was, and then getting back with Aiden only to torture him with keeping Big in the periphery of their relationship, and not being able to fully commit to him. It took an act of Congress for Big to say "I (fucking) love you" (and even when he said it, it was because you pouted and acted bratty until he did) and to let you leave a few things at his place; how she determined he was worth breaking Aiden's heart twice and hurting Natasha and sabotaging every other meaningful relationship she had truly escapes me. And then we were supposed to believe Big got over being a selfish twat to marry her and they were going to live happily ever after? Girl, bye.

[Woopah]

I think he originally wanted her (god knows why) but she pushed him away after the church scene.

I watched the episode where she was on an advert on the bus for the first time. She turned up at Big's place drunk and shouting I am surprised he didn't run away then

[Maherjunkie]

Me too!  Women bitch about how men don't communicate with them, Big communicates with her clearly, and she still bitches.  You want a man to tell you he loves you so he can screw you on an island?  Big lived by his own principles.  I don't see why someone should apologize for that.  And he did tell her he loved her.  More than once.  I noticed this last night in the ep where she hits him.

[TVFan17]

I wasn't sure exactly where to put this -- there's not an SATC in the Media thread, is there? 

 

http://hollywoodlife.com/2015/01/09/sex-and-the-city-returning-hbo-tv-john-corbett-interview-two-more-seasons/

 

I knew there was a reason I liked John Corbett -- who, by the way, still looks pretty damn hot for being 54 years old!  He and I think alike!  I know it is not the popular opinion to want another round of SATC in any format -- either in a 3rd and final movie, or in a return of the series for a very limited run -- but, as much as all of the women annoyed me at times (especially Carrie), I still miss them.  I miss seeing them together as those characters, and I feel like I want to check in with them and see what they're up to.  Apparently, John Corbett agrees and wants to see more of them too (which is funny because I think that Chris Noth would probably not agree)! 

 

When I recently read about Sarah Jessica Parker possibly returning to HBO in a new series about divorce -- http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sarah-jessica-parker-reportedly-returning-to-hbo-for-divorce/ -- I thought, "Hmm... maybe the SATC 3 idea is off the table once again." 

 

It's been 5 years since the last movie came out, so the "5 year" point that SJP mentioned to Andy Cohen a few years back has now arrived (she told him that she wanted to wait about 5 years to tell the 3rd, final, small story).  I am guessing that if the SATC cast cannot get it together to agree to do the movie, or series' continuation, etc., it won't happen.  Even if they didn't film until 2016, I think they all have to agree to do it very soon.  Surely, someone has talked to someone about it by now.  And they're all either going to get on board with it, or not.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Sherry67

[27bored]

Wow, it's been a minute since I made a SaTC post.

 

I'm watching "Hop, Skip, and a Week" where Berger breaks up with Carrie on a post-it at the end. I have to say, I didn't really like Berger, but the fight that caused him to leave Carrie for a week and go to his house in the Hamptons was kiiiiind of Carrie's fault. They were on a date at a restaurant and Charlotte runs over and hides in their booth because she's on a bad date. Carrie calls her phone and says "something bad has happened", Charlotte ran out, and then came back in and started having dinner with them. Then they started arguing and Charlotte awkwardly excused herself again.

 

Couple of problems: first of all, no matter how cool I am with your girlfriends, I don't want any of those bitches joining us on a date. It's one thing if that's the point, but don't invite people into the mix without asking me. Second, Charlotte is a grown. ass. woman. I know she acts like a princess most of the time, but she's an adult. This isn't your first rodeo. If the date isn't going well, just end it politely and go your ass home. Don't have your girlfriend call you and you answer at dinner (which is rude anyway) just to end the date. That shit is not cute past twenty-five, if ever. Third, if the chick is joining us on a date, I don't necessarily want to talk about her bad date or what she does or doesn't prefer in men. I...don't give a fuck. Y'all can talk on the phone after our date if it's that important. But if you're going to do it in my face, don't fucking tell me what I can and can't say. When Berger said "[you loved Harry] because he didn't bring you filler flowers" and Charlotte acted hurt and Carrie was like, "don't say that to her", I was like, "no this bitch didn't!" Carrie? That's YOUR friend, not mine. I say what ever in the fuuuuuuuuuck I want to say. You have me enTIRELY fucked up if you think you're gonna check me on a joke I made to your friend who's too weak to end her own bad date trick what?

 

I'm sorry. I'm back. But yeah, I would've went on Carrie's ass HARD for saying some bullshit like that to me...

 

And it's not like Harry died or some shit bitch Harry dumped Charlotte's ass because she insulted him by saying he was ugly and she isn't. She wasn't wrong because Harry does look like a shaved mole rat and was being an assbutt at the Shabbas dinner because I guess he figured well this bitch will convert to Judaism without a ring and let me live in her house and have sex with me whenever I want so she wont mind if I watch the game while she sings Hebrew prayers off-key and shit. And, I mean, he was right too, but he was an asshole.

 

OK, for real this time, I got it out. But last thing is, Carrie, you already know you and Berger aren't the most blissfully happy couple in the world. Maybe instead of inviting your girlfriend who just got dumped into a dinner where the two of you should be remembering why you fell in love, you keep it private.

 

So, like I said, I didn't like Berger, but yeah that fight was Carrie's fault.

[TVFan17]

It's been a while since you posted, but it was well worth the wait, 27bored! 

 

I completely agree.  I didn't like Berger too much either -- and I know I am probably betraying the sisterhood by saying this -- but I thought that most of Carrie's fights with her assorted boyfriends were largely her fault!  That's not to say that the men never did anything wrong or said anything wrong, because they did, but Carrie was extremely annoying at times (to all of them). 

 

Now, that said, I kind of liked the fact that our protagonist/heroine was highly flawed and not perfect, but I'm not sure if MPK and the writers wanted us to think that Carrie was soooooo flawed and often at fault in her conflicts.  I got the impression that we were always expected to side with Carrie and think that the other person in the conflict was at fault.

[Bella]

It's been a while since you posted, but it was well worth the wait, 27bored! 

 

I completely agree.  I didn't like Berger too much either -- and I know I am probably betraying the sisterhood by saying this -- but I thought that most of Carrie's fights with her assorted boyfriends were largely her fault!  That's not to say that the men never did anything wrong or said anything wrong, because they did, but Carrie was extremely annoying at times (to all of them). 

 

Now, that said, I kind of liked the fact that our protagonist/heroine was highly flawed and not perfect, but I'm not sure if MPK and the writers wanted us to think that Carrie was soooooo flawed and often at fault in her conflicts.  I got the impression that we were always expected to side with Carrie and think that the other person in the conflict was at fault.

 

I agree with all of this.

 

I found Carrie hard to love, but aside from that, I never, ever bought into her and Berger as a couple. Not for one single second. I saw him as a plot device and a foil for Carrie since Big wasn't in the picture at the time - and I always expected Big to come back, I never doubted that she'd end up with him. Berger was filler. I'll go one step further than Sherry67 and say that I didn't mind the break-up by Post-It note. In real life, that would be awful and beyond tacky. But I found it comical and it seemed about right for where the Carrie/Berger relationship was - just a detail that could be addressed with the judicious use of office supplies. And it became a meme, on top of everything else.

 

I have trouble looking at either of them as the cause of their break-up. They shouldn't have been together in the first place, and in that regard, the break-up really fixed what was broken.

 

I also like multi-dimensional characters, but Carrie ... I found her hard to love. Her strident and demanding side overwhelmed her positive traits for me. YMMV.

[TVFan17]

I agree with all of this.

 

I found Carrie hard to love, but aside from that, I never, ever bought into her and Berger as a couple. Not for one single second. I saw him as a plot device and a foil for Carrie since Big wasn't in the picture at the time - and I always expected Big to come back, I never doubted that she'd end up with him. Berger was filler. I'll go one step further than Sherry67 and say that I didn't mind the break-up by Post-It note. In real life, that would be awful and beyond tacky. But I found it comical and it seemed about right for where the Carrie/Berger relationship was - just a detail that could be addressed with the judicious use of office supplies. And it became a meme, on top of everything else.

 

I have trouble looking at either of them as the cause of their break-up. They shouldn't have been together in the first place, and in that regard, the break-up really fixed what was broken.

 

I also like multi-dimensional characters, but Carrie ... I found her hard to love. Her strident and demanding side overwhelmed her positive traits for me. YMMV.

 

You're absolutely right -- Berger did very much seem like the filler boyfriend.  He was there to be to her what Big and Aidan were not. He was like the transitional boyfriend, as Carrie slowly became more mature and began to discover more about who she was and what she wanted. 

 

Mr. Big wasn't ready to commit to Carrie, so he didn't give her 'enough' of what she wanted, and she felt she had to chase him as he kept her at a safe distance.

 

Aidan was open and ready to give her what she thought she wanted, but he wanted too much, too soon and/or Carrie was just not emotionally ready to accept it from him... so she pushed him away.

 

Berger came along, and he neither pushed Carrie away nor did he push her to get too serious too quickly.  He was just kind of... there.  We were probably supposed to think that they'd be ideal for each other -- and that he'd be a more realistic partner for her -- because Berger and Carrie were both 'witty writers' who could banter with each other, and they'd understand each other's work and so on.   But... it turned out that two writers together were not a match made in heaven. 

 

The irony of the Post-It break-up is that both Berger and Carrie were writers/authors who engaged in all kinds of fluent, verbal repartee, and yet he broke up with her in a couple of very short, non-wordy sentences on a piece of paper.   Yes, that would be awful in real life but on the show it was hilarious.

 

And Aleks was just the "fantasy boyfriend" -- the worldly, cultured, famous, well-traveled, creative jet-setter who took Carrie to Paris, when we all know that Big did not want her to come to Paris.  Aleks was there to be what Big wasn't, and at the same time he was there to, essentially, lead her back to Big.

 

Carrie was very hard to love -- and sometimes even hard to like -- at many points.  At her core I felt that she was a good person who loved her friends, but she did a lot of annoying things throughout the whole series.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Sherry67

[Inquisitionist]

...I know I am probably betraying the sisterhood by saying this -- but I thought that most of Carrie's fights with her assorted boyfriends were largely her fault!  That's not to say that the men never did anything wrong or said anything wrong, because they did, but Carrie was extremely annoying at times (to all of them). 

 

Not sure which sisterhood you mean, but most posters here find Carrie pretty annoying much of the time.  So welcome aboard!  And yeah, Carrie with Berger was a disaster-in-the-making from the get-go.  She acts like a school girl when she sees him on the street before their first date because she's not wearing "perfect date" clothing (but she was OK inflicting the horrendous get-up she had on upon the unsuspecting public), she complains about their having bad sex when all she does is lie there like an inert piece of codfish, she makes Berger face a verbal firing squad of her "friends" (I would have loved to see the counterpart of Carrie having to pass a similar test with Berger's friends), she doesn't even buy a copy of his book but instead waits for him to give her a copy and then fixates on the one flaw she finds in it, and then the Charlotte incident.  Ugh.  Berger had his issues, plenty of them, but I ultimately disliked Carrie with him more than I disliked him.   They were like two overgrown kids pretending to have a mature relationship.

[TVFan17]

Not sure which sisterhood you mean, but most posters here find Carrie pretty annoying much of the time.  So welcome aboard!  And yeah, Carrie with Berger was a disaster-in-the-making from the get-go.  She acts like a school girl when she sees him on the street before their first date because she's not wearing "perfect date" clothing (but she was OK inflicting the horrendous get-up she had on upon the unsuspecting public), she complains about their having bad sex when all she does is lie there like an inert piece of codfish, she makes Berger face a verbal firing squad of her "friends" (I would have loved to see the counterpart of Carrie having to pass a similar test with Berger's friends), she doesn't even buy a copy of his book but instead waits for him to give her a copy and then fixates on the one flaw she finds in it, and then the Charlotte incident.  Ugh.  Berger had his issues, plenty of them, but I ultimately disliked Carrie with him more than I disliked him.   They were like two overgrown kids pretending to have a mature relationship.

 

I'm talking about the sisterhood of fellow women -- women in general, across the world, not necessarily on this board.

 

I've been here on this board a while -- and was on TWoP prior to that -- so I know that lots of people here find Carrie annoying. 

[Inquisitionist]

Well, I'm part of that sisterhood, too, and I don't feel betrayed by your comments at all!  I didn't march for equal rights in the 1970s so that women could feel proud to act like morons.

[CleoCaesar]

I found Carrie hard to love, but aside from that, I never, ever bought into her and Berger as a couple. Not for one single second. I saw him as a plot device and a foil for Carrie since Big wasn't in the picture at the time - and I always expected Big to come back, I never doubted that she'd end up with him. Berger was filler. I'll go one step further than Sherry67 and say that I didn't mind the break-up by Post-It note. In real life, that would be awful and beyond tacky. But I found it comical and it seemed about right for where the Carrie/Berger relationship was - just a detail that could be addressed with the judicious use of office supplies. And it became a meme, on top of everything else.

 

I could have written this paragraph, but I would have substituted Petrovsky's name for Berger's. :) Berger and Carrie made total sense to me. They were both writers, around the same age, both New Yorkers, had the same sense of humor, and more or less talked and argued like normal couples do. Berger could be an insecure ass, but they still worked through their arguments, made up, and even laughed about the fights (e.g. the scrunchie comment). It was the only one of Carrie's relationships where I felt like it was two equals. With Big Carrie seemed unhinged and needy, with Aiden bored and smothered, with Petrovsky childish and fake. With Berger Carrie actually seemed like a mature person and a pretty good girlfriend.

 

I would have loved for Petrovsky to have never happened and for Berger to be the main competition for Carrie's endgame. I love M. Barishnikov and even liked Aleks for the most part, but THAT to me felt like the ultimate filler. No real chemistry and no real logical reasons for being together. There was no way in hell that was going to last, and it felt so rushed before the finale. A great season 6 would have been if Berger hadn't been disposed of so quickly and stupidly, and if he and Carrie had a real relationship that stood a chance of being endgame. THAT would have made her choice of Big into an actual dilemma. Instead we got "Carrie's filler boyfriend accidentally slaps her, she runs out and into Big who is magically there and he wants to fight Petrovsky". Yawnnnn.

[Inquisitionist]

With Big Carrie seemed unhinged and needy, with Aiden bored and smothered, with Petrovsky childish and fake. With Berger Carrie actually seemed like a mature person and a pretty good girlfriend.

 

Compared to the immaturity Carrie showed in her other relationships, I suppose she did appear somewhat more mature with Berger -- but those other relationships provided a pretty low bar to cross!  As I noted above:

 

She acts like a school girl when she sees [berger] on the street before their first date because she's not wearing "perfect date" clothing (but she was OK inflicting the horrendous get-up she had on upon the unsuspecting public), she complains about their having bad sex when all she does is lie there like an inert piece of codfish, she makes Berger face a verbal firing squad of her "friends" (I would have loved to see the counterpart of Carrie having to pass a similar test with Berger's friends), she doesn't even buy a copy of his book but instead waits for him to give her a copy and then fixates on the one flaw she finds in it, and then the Charlotte incident.  Ugh.  Berger had his issues, plenty of them, but I ultimately disliked Carrie with him more than I disliked him.   They were like two overgrown kids pretending to have a mature relationship.

[CleoCaesar]

she complains about their having bad sex when all she does is lie there like an inert piece of codfish

 

Yeah that part always makes me roll my eyes. Sex is "too quiet" for you, Carrie? THEN MAKE SOME NOISE. MOVE. DO SOMETHING.

 

 she doesn't even buy a copy of his book but instead waits for him to give her a copy

 

Also baffling behavior to me. If some guy I'm interested in had written a book, I am reading that book before our first date. Not because I want him to know I've read it, but because the curiosity would be too strong.

 

I wrote somewhere upthread that Carrie's "cultured New Yorker" self-image was really based on nothing substantial and that she was more in love with the idea of culture in the glittering city than actually partaking in it (same goes for Paris). Well I think the same could be said of her writing. She is enamored with the idea of Being a Writer, but she doesn't seem to show any real passion for it. The idea of collecting her columns into a book doesn't even occur to her until she's approached by a publisher. She doesn't write stuff on the side from her job. She's not friends with other writers (even Berger has writer buddies he meets with). She doesn't even bring her laptop when she moves to another country. I so wish the show had explored these facets of Carrie's personality. I would have been much more interested in seeing cracks in the "socialite writer New Yorker" facade.

[Maherjunkie]

I guess the point was she wasn't really that deep.  I wouldn't have bought the book if I knew I was likely getting a copy.

[Janet Snakehole]

I think we were supposed to think she was deep though. I got the feeling the show really wanted us to identify with Carrie and aspire to be like her.

Weird, because the one moment I found her most relatable and likeable was when she was upset about Big and Natasha's wedding announcement in the Times; and she said something like she was just a sex writer in a column next to dildo ads.

[JasminePhyllisia]

It's been a while since you posted, but it was well worth the wait, 27bored! 

 

I completely agree.  I didn't like Berger too much either -- and I know I am probably betraying the sisterhood by saying this -- but I thought that most of Carrie's fights with her assorted boyfriends were largely her fault!  That's not to say that the men never did anything wrong or said anything wrong, because they did, but Carrie was extremely annoying at times (to all of them). 

 

Now, that said, I kind of liked the fact that our protagonist/heroine was highly flawed and not perfect, but I'm not sure if MPK and the writers wanted us to think that Carrie was soooooo flawed and often at fault in her conflicts.  I got the impression that we were always expected to side with Carrie and think that the other person in the conflict was at fault.

 

I've watched some of the DVD's with MPK's commentary and didn't get the impression the viewers were always expected to side with Carrie.  She was flawed, self-centered and neurotic, definitely.  She's a very polarizing character who seems to bring out the worst hatred in some viewers, and perhaps at some point the writers realized that as long as viewers loved to villainize and hate on Carrie, they had a winning formula.  Plus, the show was about single women with her as the central character, so if she were to act the "right" way and have a healthy relationship there would be no show.  Instead they capitalized on her singleness for six successful seasons.

 

I never really got why Big's character gets so little hatred, in contrast to Carrie, for his part in the affair which he initiated aggressively.  Yes, Aidan and Natasha were innocent victims, but wasn't that equally his fault?

Edited March 22, 2015 by JasminePhyllisia

[Bella]

I didn't give Big a pass, but I focus on Carrie because she's the protagonist. However, he was no prize IMO.

 

In fact, after I watched the first few episodes, I wondered why the writers changed his character so much. He was not as easy or sleazy at first, and with the level of wealth he supposedly had, he wouldn't have been literally bumping into her on sidewalks or had the amount of unencumbered time they gave him. His personality changed, too - he was dumbed down and became less charming. He quickly became an average-rich jerk who was used to getting his way. But he was always a pretty boy, and they tend to get away with murder.

 

YMMV.

[ladle]

I liked the baby shower scene in season 1 when Charlotte was upset that her baby name was stolen and Samantha said "you BITCH!!!" I loved that.

 

This is one of my absolute favorite scenes from the show for that reason.  Sam never hesitated, she immediately defended Charlotte and I loved it.

 

 

 

See, I read this scene differently.  I thought Samantha was just waiting for an excuse to unload on Lainey, and Charlotte gave it to her.  I do agree that Sam typically had the other women's backs, though (and I also loved that line!).

 

So I get Carrie not feeling like she could go on with Big. What I don't get is Carrie continuing to go back to him knowing how he is, letting him hurt her all over again, then indulging in his discontent with his grad-school-aged wife while simultaneously sabotaging and hurting Aiden

 

 

Unfortunately, I can relate to this.  That was one plot arc on the show that always rang true, to me.  I wasn't as stupid about it as Carrie (I hope...) and I didn't end up with the guy, but I and (I think?) many others can relate to the masochistic pull of an on-again/off-again relationship with a person you just can't seem to shake.  I hate that everything was magically "fixed" and they ended up together -- but I did see myself in that relationship at times.

 

Also, I LOAAAATHED Berger but I do have to say, I thought that was one of the most realistic relationships in the run of the series.  His professional insecurity, the devolution of their relationship -- heck, even the post-it note -- it all rang very, very true to me.

 

I used to live in New York, and I miss it.  And I miss this show, you guys!

[chitowngirl]

Minor nitpick-In the episode An American Girl in Paris part 1, Carrie is meeting the girls at 6:00 for dinner for a 9:00 flight. This is right after 9/11, she would have to be at the airport at 7 at the very latest for a transatlantic flight.

 

And if her book is being sold in Paris, wouldn't her publishing company jump all over having her doing promotions of the book all over the city and possibly places like London too?

Edited August 4, 2015 by chitowngirl