Kate: Chrissy Metz

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, random chance said:

Interesting! .

Oh now that would make sense.

 

Yes, and it can be a lot of aggravating trial and error. Maintenance is a tricky bastard too, especially over the holidays. Here are a few things that helped me a lot in case anyone wants to give them a shot: weigh your food (this was quite the shock for me, and it also explained the slow weight loss), fill up on sugar free jello before eating out, and always look up restaurant menu calories online and decide what you'll order beforehand - don't wait until you're in the restaurant surrounded by people ordering a triple bacon butter burger.

Whatever your goal is, it is imperative that you weigh your food whenever possible.  Ive been body sculpting and weighing my foods for 20 years (since I was 14) and whenever I test myself without the using the scale first I am always way off.  

Also, not gonna lie, ive brought my scale to restaurants and will weigh the food right there on the table in front of everyone.  Ive found that even restaurants that provide the grams, ounces, etc of the cooked food are way off.

[jeansheridan]

Just to get off the weight issue for a bit of variety, do we think Kate has actual friends besides her somewhat disengaged twin?   And what about some other skills besides singing in the shower and being able to organize a fundraiser (which IS a good skill but perhaps not one you can break out a lot on a television show).  

I wouldn't mind seeing her try different activities too like a dance class (ballroom, swing) or even take a singing class.  Or go do karaoke with her brothers.  The show feels somewhat realistic and I'd love to see her doing regular things and it not be all about food.  

[SueB]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

Just to get off the weight issue for a bit of variety, do we think Kate has actual friends besides her somewhat disengaged twin?   And what about some other skills besides singing in the shower and being able to organize a fundraiser (which IS a good skill but perhaps not one you can break out a lot on a television show).  

I wouldn't mind seeing her try different activities too like a dance class (ballroom, swing) or even take a singing class.  Or go do karaoke with her brothers.  The show feels somewhat realistic and I'd love to see her doing regular things and it not be all about food.  

 

I think Kate is an exceptional organizer.  I'd plop her down into any number of administrative (and I don't mean secretarial, I mean 'has her own staff' administrative roles)job in a wide variety of business domains and she'd do very well.  She very smart, current culture-savvy, good with people, tenacious, quick thinking, and able to manage both the small and big picture simultaneously.  Even if she doesn't know the specific business, I'd give her 4 weeks to become more of an expert than half the people at any company.  She exudes competence.  

As for friends, that DOES bother me.  I think it's a distinct possibility that her only true friend was her brother.  She probably has acquaintances but I suspect she never took time to develop deeper bonds with non-work-related people. Or we would have seen them by now.  I really DO want her to expand her life because I think she was in a massive rut.  Kevin firing her was an awesome moment of clarity for him about her.  And she had Toby as a safety cushion at the time.  Now?  Now she might stick with Jamie Gertz's job or she might cut and run east.  As much as I want her more talking to Kevin and Randall, I'm not sure coming East in Winter is a bright idea for her.  I think she should stay in LA so she stays focused on herself for a while.  It would be far too easy to get wrapped into family drama otherwise.  

[SlackerInc]

On big ensemble shows, people just don't have friends, or extended relatives outside of the main family (see: Parenthood).  It would just make the cast too huge and unmanageable, I guess.

Even on Breaking Bad, which is not such a huge ensemble, in the pilot it was presented as though Walt had a bunch of nerdy, science-type friends, but then later they acted as though he had none.

[jeansheridan]

I'm not asking for deep friendships on screen.  I'm asking that the time they gave to Toby, they give to her having a friendship.  We've seen Kevin go out with his buddies with Randall (and granted those actors didn't even get lines!).  I just think for a 36 year-old unmarried woman without children, her peer group is really important.  Same with Kevin too, but we've seen him with Olivia at least.

Toby was a side character and even HE had a buddy!  With lines!  

[breezy424]

I have two theories.  The first: They are going to move her east so they didn't want to develop friendships.  If that happens, there will be more interaction between her and Beth (as a friend), then add all the others for more family interactions.  The second:  Kate moved to CA to work for her brother and is kind of an introvert to begin with because of her weight.  Her world was working for her brother and apparently she is excellent at organization, phone, social media skills....ones that weren't really face to face.  She did get both jobs we saw her interview for but we got to see insecure Kate in both of them.

Personally, I hope she moves east.  I want to especially see her present day relationship with her mother and where that goes.  And how she deals with her brothers and their relationship.  She seems close to both of them.  I don't want her back in LA and possibly getting back with Toby. 

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, breezy424 said:

Kate moved to CA to work for her brother

I think it sounded like the gig she had previously to being Kevin's assistant was LA based so maybe they just decided to move to LA together and when her being in love with her previous employer reached an unhealthy level, Kevin was getting enough gigs to be able to pay for an assistant.

[SlackerInc]

16 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I'm not asking for deep friendships on screen.  I'm asking that the time they gave to Toby, they give to her having a friendship.  We've seen Kevin go out with his buddies with Randall (and granted those actors didn't even get lines!).  I just think for a 36 year-old unmarried woman without children, her peer group is really important.  Same with Kevin too, but we've seen him with Olivia at least.

Toby was a side character and even HE had a buddy!  With lines!  

Fair point about Toby's buddy.  I wonder if we'll ever see him again.  But that kind of illustrates the problem, at the same time: the "supply lines" reaching this buddy (with, as you say, lines!) are unmanageable.  Yet he is now part of the canon.  Still, a side character's buddy can fairly easily be shown once and never seen again.  If Kate has a good friend, they kind of have to make the friend a regular character; and if they do, that takes time away from other characters.  It's tricky.

I didn't think Kevin went out with his buddies, though.  Instead, I thought it was supposed to be that at this bar, people sit at long tables next to strangers--that's part of its "schtick", if you will.  Unless you meant his former costar (but he did have a line).  Even then, I got the impression they were semi-surprised to see each other there (I say "semi" because they were both seemingly regulars at the place).

[jeansheridan]

I misread the bar scene.  I did think they were in a group.

I think shows get a bit too efficient sometimes.  If someone has more than a line they must be significant to the larger plot.  I think it is fine to slowly build a character's presence.  A line here, a line there.  Someone Kate meets at the gym or at work.  Someplace her character would naturally go to a lot.  Joss Whedon did this all the time on Buffy, slowly building up future featured characters.  He created a stable of familiar faces.  It lends richness to the world.  

[photo fox]

Hi, all,

Please take non-Kate weight loss talk to the Small Talk thread, or even start a new topic, if you're so inclined.  But posts in this topic should be focused on Kate and/or Chrissy Metz.

Cheers!

[memememe76]

I take it that Kate's OA buddies are there to provide Kate with a semblance of a life outside her family. We know more about them than we do, say, Kevin's acting buddies (Olivia excluded) or Randall's co-workers. 

[SlackerInc]

Do you think they are really her "buddies"?  I didn't take it that way, but I could be wrong.  I had thought the only one she made any kind of friend connection with, that of course turned into more, was Toby.  In fact, I kind of thought she borderline hated the rest of them!  LOL

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

Do you think they are really her "buddies"?  I didn't take it that way, but I could be wrong.  I had thought the only one she made any kind of friend connection with, that of course turned into more, was Toby.  In fact, I kind of thought she borderline hated the rest of them!  LOL

I agree with this.  Kate varies between passive aggressively rolling her eyes and being outright hostile in these meetings, so I doubt any of them would be her friends.

I'm of the belief that she really doesn't have any friends, that her life WAS her brother, up until he moved.  In fact, I think that is one of the reasons why Kevin "fired" her--not so much so that she could be with Toby specifically, but so that she could be with other people and form her own life.

[Tiger]

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

I agree with this.  Kate varies between passive aggressively rolling her eyes and being outright hostile in these meetings, so I doubt any of them would be her friends.

I'm of the belief that she really doesn't have any friends, that her life WAS her brother, up until he moved.  In fact, I think that is one of the reasons why Kevin "fired" her--not so much so that she could be with Toby specifically, but so that she could be with other people and form her own life.

Her reaction to the woman who bought Wendy's then threw it out the window without eating it was priceless.

I'd love a scene of Kate eating lunch with Jami Gertz and snarking on those women.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Tiger

[random chance]

3 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Do you think they are really her "buddies"?  I didn't take it that way, but I could be wrong.  I had thought the only one she made any kind of friend connection with, that of course turned into more, was Toby.  In fact, I kind of thought she borderline hated the rest of them!  LOL

That was my impression too, I can't imagine her hanging out with them.

[breezy424]

23 hours ago, biakbiak said:

I think it sounded like the gig she had previously to being Kevin's assistant was LA based so maybe they just decided to move to LA together and when her being in love with her previous employer reached an unhealthy level, Kevin was getting enough gigs to be able to pay for an assistant.

I'm not so sure.  Was that specifically explained as to where it was?  

I thought I had a good theory going on but maybe I'm mistaken.  :)

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I'm not so sure.  Was that specifically explained as to where it was?  

I thought I had a good theory going on but maybe I'm mistaken.  :)

The way the new boss was so impressed with her previous boss and the work that she did for him seemed to indicate that taking a gig as her brothers assistant was actually a step down and LA people tend to only be impressed with other LA people (with some nod to NY) and we know that Kevin has never lived in NY and by the way she acted neither has Kate. 

[NutMeg]

It's a bit weird to me that of all the people attending these meetings, Kate, who seems serious about losing weight, only connected with Toby, who is not serious about losing weight. (And he is bugging me, but that's irrelevant.)

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, NutMeg said:

It's a bit weird to me that of all the people attending these meetings, Kate, who seems serious about losing weight, only connected with Toby, who is not serious about losing weight. (And he is bugging me, but that's irrelevant.)

I do think that has something to do with Kate's attitude.  I get the feeling from her scenes in the meetings that she somehow thinks that she is the only person who has a weight problem and that no one actually "gets" her.  After years and years in Weight Watchers, I can tell you that this is not uncommon in meetings....

More generally, I think that part of Kate's coping mechanism is to push away anyone who can relate to her or tries to connect with her by addressing her weight.  As far as we know, the only people she has any kind of notable relationship with are:

1 - Her brothers, especially Kevin who is, in many ways, her polar opposite (to be fair, I don't think we can say she is less close to Randall because of this.  The show just hasn't yet given us an opportunity to see Kate and Randall one on one).

2 - Toby, who always made light of both his and her weight issues

3 - Her new boss, who clearly doesn't want to deal with anyone else's weight issues

Also, the fact that Kate seems to have been closer to her dad, who never addressed her weight issues,  than her mother, who did, is also telling.  

In light of this, which I'll admit is just what I'm seeing and others may have another view, I think the current state of of her "relationship" with Toby is interesting.  By deciding not to diet, the fact that Kate IS trying to live a certain lifestyle will always be first and foremost between them.  Now, I actually think that Kate is right to go on a break with Toby, but I also suspect that the reason I think she should and the reason the character is doing it may not line up exactly.

[SlackerInc]

Are we just supposed to assume Kate quut the store job off camera?

[OtterMommy]

15 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

Are we just supposed to assume Kate quut the store job off camera?

I don't think she ever accepted the job offer.

[JudyObscure]

So.  I just learned on the episode thread that Chrissy is not going to do the surgery.  Now why hire an actress who has contracted to lose  weight, but not by the method the character will use?  Maybe the character is going to change her mind about surgery, I don't know, but as it stands it seems an odd choice of actress when there must be quite a few who could do the job and would also like to have the operation.

[random chance]

I'm thinking that from all the talk about how dangerous it is, the character is going to end up not getting the surgery.

[breezy424]

I was glad to hear that Chrissy is not contractually obliged to lose weight.  She does need to lose weight but that's just not 'cool' in my book.  It could lead to 'unhealthy' weight loss. 

I also think that although Kate threw out the statement at Thanksgiving, she's not going to go through with it.  It's Chrissy's choice and she should not be obliged under any circumstance to do it.  She should do what works best for her, not the show.  From the interview I saw, she is definitely interested in losing weight and it should be on her terms in order for it to be successful.

[pennben]

I think she is still contractually obiligated to lose weight. Apparently she's not contractually obligated to have gastric bypass surgery (I don't think such a provision would be enforceable) as she has stated she won't do it.  

[SlackerInc]

Interesting profile of Chrissy: https://www.bustle.com/articles/191149-chrissy-metz-is-the-fat-role-model-women-are-missing

[Tiger]

8 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Interesting profile of Chrissy: https://www.bustle.com/articles/191149-chrissy-metz-is-the-fat-role-model-women-are-missing

Great article/interview.

And it highlights my biggest problem with Kate & Toby: Metz, as Kate at least, projects a self-assured level of confidence that doesnt gel with Kate bring so feckless with and to Toby.  

Edited December 3, 2016 by Tiger

[chocolatine]

On 12/1/2016 at 9:38 PM, pennben said:

I think she is still contractually obiligated to lose weight. Apparently she's not contractually obligated to have gastric bypass surgery (I don't think such a provision would be enforceable) as she has stated she won't do it.  

Now she's backtracking and saying that weight loss "wasn't mandated in the contract".

[pennben]

Huh....that's a weird thing for her to get wrong in the initial interview. 

[chocolatine]

31 minutes ago, pennben said:

Huh....that's a weird thing for her to get wrong in the initial interview. 

I wouldn't be surprised if an NBC lawyer gently reminded her that her contract also has a non-disclosure clause.

[talktoomuch]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I wouldn't be surprised if an NBC lawyer gently reminded her that her contract also has a non-disclosure clause.

This. NBC probably balked at the backlash from contractually mandating an actor to lose weight. So now Chrissy's on a "clarification" tour.

One other option is that it was a "This character is going to lose weight on the show. So if you're not willing to lose weight, this role is not for you." So not officially part of the written contract, but a mutually agreed upon precondition to the contract. Which, as Chrissy rightfully stated in the initial interview, becomes part of the contract even though it's not written in.

[pennben]

If they didn't end up putting it in the contract, even if they spoke of it previously, it's not part of the legal contract.  It can certainly still be an informal agreement that she feels bound to by honor. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by pennben

[talktoomuch]

That's actually not so black and white. Depending on state precedents and performance by both parties, a verbal precondition can be considered part of the contract. OT I recently won just such a case in GA.

[pennben]

That's true, it can happen. However it's not something I'd want to rely on for something that's important to me when signing a contract. 

[Armchair Critic]

Overweight women shouldn't feel like they should take whatever man they can get but let's get real here, Toby seemed to accept Kate the way she was and that is not easy to find. Yes he can be pushy and obnoxious but he seemed to really care about her too. Though he doesn't want to lose weight he isn't telling her she shouldn't.

I am a BIG girl and my long term partner is fit and very attractive, he is not perfect and has his own issues. But I will tell you that I feel blessed to have a man who loves me for how I am, yet also is supportive of me when I do try to improve.

And here is my story to relate this back to Kate. I have been a long time member of a local message board and before I met my partner I was talking to a man I met there. It is not a dating site, but we kept posting back to each other and making each other laugh and so we took it offline and started e-mailing and then talking on the phone. He wanted to meet and I was hesitant, I told him flat out I was overweight and that we would be better off as friends, that I didn't think I was his type. I had seen his Facebook pictures and his ex wife was a tiny thing, and I have never been tiny in my life. He told me that he was so turned on by me that I could weigh 300+ pounds and he wouldn't care, he would still be attracted to me. He kept asking and I finally caved and met him and I could tell right away he was disappointed. The thing is.... I have a pretty face, great hair, I dress nice, and have a friendly personality... I have been told many times I am pretty. BUT if a man is not attracted to large woman it is very hard for them to look beyond your weight. Luckily we had just set up a quick meeting and when we parted he said something like "we should do something sometime" but I could tell he was just making conversation. Later that night I got an e-mail from him that he was really busy at work and didn't have time for a relationship, yup he blew me off.

So what I meant to say is that yes we all think Kate deserves to have the most wonderful man and it's great to have high standards but sometimes you have to be realistic. Toby really seemed into her and to accept her and maybe he is that man.

[NutMeg]

On 12/4/2016 at 11:44 AM, chocolatine said:

I wouldn't be surprised if an NBC lawyer gently reminded her that her contract also has a non-disclosure clause.

Or: NBC didn't expect her as she is to generate so much (mostly positive) talk and are now ok for her to do as she wants - lose weight or not, they have all alternatives covered - which hopefully means that her story will stop being about weight, already.

[SlackerInc]

On 12/4/2016 at 6:58 PM, Armchair Critic said:

So what I meant to say is that yes we all think Kate deserves to have the most wonderful man and it's great to have high standards but sometimes you have to be realistic. Toby really seemed into her and to accept her and maybe he is that man.

I think this is a really, really great point.  There is almost a secular religion in our culture to insist otherwise: "You can do anything you set your mind to"; "Never settle"; etc.  But this is not actually realistic IRL.  So unless you are a wealthy, witty, gorgeous, fit, kind, empathetic genius, you are going to have to settle to one degree or another (and maybe even then).  But boy, will a lot of people get their dander up if you say so.

[J.D.]

35 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

....... I've never felt being single is some booby prize or sign of failure, either.  

I couldn't agree more.  I'm in a committed relationship, so this doesn't apply to me.  Still, I'll never understand why people (and especially women) seem to think they JUST HAVE TO be in a relationship, and if they're not, they're somehow 'lesser' than those who are.   I've known women who'd rather settle for someone who doesn't live up to what they truly want than to NOT be in a relationship.  That's disturbing.

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, J.D. said:

I couldn't agree more.  I'm in a committed relationship, so this doesn't apply to me.  Still, I'll never understand why people (and especially women) seem to think they JUST HAVE TO be in a relationship, and if they're not, they're somehow 'lesser' than those who are.   I've known women who'd rather settle for someone who doesn't live up to what they truly want than to NOT be in a relationship.  That's disturbing.

I think it centers around popular culture pushing this idea.  Think of most popular music, what is it about?  Relationships and heartbreak, etc.  Ditto for TV and movies, single people often don't stay single for long, they 'meet cute' or stumble into Mr. or Ms. Right or start out hating someone but end up crazy in love.     Single person households are on the rise, marriage rates are declining, but still the idea persists that something might be wrong with a person who is single.   I think just like body image problems arise from exposure to media depictions of what's "normal", so does the idea that being with someone else will make you happier than you are as you are.  It's insidious.

[J.D.]

7 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I think it centers around popular culture pushing this idea.  Think of most popular music, what is it about?  Relationships and heartbreak, etc.  Ditto for TV and movies, single people often don't stay single for long, they 'meet cute' or stumble into Mr. or Ms. Right or start out hating someone but end up crazy in love.     Single person households are on the rise, marriage rates are declining, but still the idea persists that something might be wrong with a person who is single.   I think just like body image problems arise from exposure to media depictions of what's "normal", so does the idea that being with someone else will make you happier than you are as you are.  It's insidious.

That's one of my biggest fears for my daughter (who's only 4, btw).  I hope to instill enough self-worth in her that she becomes and independent-minded adult, and doesn't think she's nothing without a man.  I hope she focuses on her career and whatever interests she might have, such as traveling, skiing, theater, sky diving, rock climbing, antiquing...whatever.   And if she happens to meet a man (or woman) that she feels she's compatible with and wants to share her life with, then great--!!!!   I'm certainly not going to discourage her.  Still, I just don't want my daughter to sacrifice her own goals and interest for someone else.  And I don't want her to grow up thinking she needs to be in a relationship, -- or be inferior to those who are.

[Tiger]

7 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

I think this is a really, really great point.  There is almost a secular religion in our culture to insist otherwise: "You can do anything you set your mind to"; "Never settle"; etc.  But this is not actually realistic IRL.  So unless you are a wealthy, witty, gorgeous, fit, kind, empathetic genius, you are going to have to settle to one degree or another (and maybe even then).  But boy, will a lot of people get their dander up if you say so.

Completely disagree; no one, regardless of income, race, whatever should ever settle on any front.  

If aomeone doesnt like their job, their body, their house, their significant other, then put in the work to change it or go out and find another.  

[random chance]

For anyone who watches Bojack Horseman - this conversation reminds me of my favorite arc on there, Princess Carolyn's.

I don't think anyone should settle, and I don't think life is worthless without a man, but was Kate supposed to be settling or is it the audience who thinks she's settling? Because she seemed pretty crazy about him (go figure). Although if they kill him off I guess she has to be, for storyline reasons - there's no story if she doesn't suffer.

[HeySandyStrange]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

think just like body image problems arise from exposure to media depictions of what's "normal", so does the idea that being with someone else will make you happier than you are as you are.  It's insidious.

This is a really good point. In regards to Kate, she mentioned in the pilot about how she wanted that perfect suburban life that she believed her parents had. Nothing is wrong with that, but she definitely seemed to believe she wasn't living up to her goals because she didn't have that in her life at 36. I'm hoping they explore this more, maybe through Rebecca and Kate repairing their relationship. We've gotten hints that despite loving her kids and having the "perfect" husband, Rebecca wasn't 100% sure that her life turned out just as she wanted it to. Maybe she'll sit Kate down at some point and tell her that she should seize this time to work on and fulfill herself before she settles down and it becomes a lot more difficult.

As for settling, I guess for me it comes down to what you are settling/not settling for. Certainly it is best to find someone who has the kind of traits and beliefs that are compatible with your own. If Kate wanted to look for someone who was more laid-back and whose mind-set was closer to her own, I'd be all for that for her. But in the grand scheme of things, you have to be a bit realistic and have some self-awareness. If you are looking more for things on the surface, ie looks, money, ect, you've got to expect to have something to trade back in most cases (for example, hot young model ends up with schlubby millionaire). Even the "One" is going to have their flaws and issues; it's a fact of life. It comes down to how much you value that person and your relationship and how much work you are willing to put into it to make it work imo.

Then again, while I find Toby a bit much, I don't think Kate is a prize. She can be very prickly and demanding, with a poor attitude at times. It's all good to have high standards for a partner, but you at least have to recognize and acknowledge your own flaws and failings. To paraphrase something I read once, if you meet someone willing to forgive most your bullshit, the least you can do is try to forgive them their bullshit.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, random chance said:

For anyone who watches Bojack Horseman - this conversation reminds me of my favorite arc on there, Princess Carolyn's.

I don't think anyone should settle, and I don't think life is worthless without a man, but was Kate supposed to be settling or is it the audience who thinks she's settling? Because she seemed pretty crazy about him (go figure). Although if they kill him off I guess she has to be, for storyline reasons - there's no story if she doesn't suffer.

She did, until she dumped him because he wouldn't diet with her.  How much could she like him if she couldn't find a workaround for a relationship hurdle that small?   

[OtterMommy]

6 hours ago, random chance said:

For anyone who watches Bojack Horseman - this conversation reminds me of my favorite arc on there, Princess Carolyn's.

I don't think anyone should settle, and I don't think life is worthless without a man, but was Kate supposed to be settling or is it the audience who thinks she's settling? Because she seemed pretty crazy about him (go figure). Although if they kill him off I guess she has to be, for storyline reasons - there's no story if she doesn't suffer.

 

6 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

She did, until she dumped him because he wouldn't diet with her.  How much could she like him if she couldn't find a workaround for a relationship hurdle that small?   

I do have issues with the Toby/Kate relationship because I think that he has a tendency to steamroll her.  However, I think that would exist no matter what their size was.

That being said, I agree with both posts here.  I think that Kate was crazy about Toby and, honestly, that should be enough. However, she also said *the moment she met him* that losing weight was her priority and she couldn't be with someone who was fat because they would hinder that.  Toby immediately responded saying he'd lose weight with her.

So, when Toby went back on that, I do truly believe that, no matter how crazy she was for him, she did the right thing.  

[random chance]

7 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

But in the grand scheme of things, you have to be a bit realistic and have some self-awareness. If you are looking more for things on the surface, ie looks, money, ect, you've got to expect to have something to trade back in most cases (for example, hot young model ends up with schlubby millionaire). Even the "One" is going to have their flaws and issues; it's a fact of life.

So true! One of the weird double standards that I come across a lot in books and movies is the not-so-attractive person who is in love with someone really good-looking, and the good-looking one is blamed for being too shallow to consider dating the not-so-attractive person. But why is the not-so-attractive person interested in them? Could it be because they're good-looking? If you're going to ask other people to look below the surface, you've got to do it too.

54 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

She did, until she dumped him because he wouldn't diet with her.  How much could she like him if she couldn't find a workaround for a relationship hurdle that small?   

In all fairness she's going to be dieting for years, so it wasn't really that small of a hurdle.

[MsJamieDornan]

4 hours ago, random chance said:

In all fairness she's going to be dieting for years, so it wasn't really that small of a hurdle.

Could be decades, I'm serious.

[SlackerInc]

15 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

We also can't prove or disprove the "anything you set your mind to" thing.  (Though I might argue that you probably can prove that believing you can't do things is probably the main cause of not doing those things.)

A lot of people believe that.  I believe there are a lot of people out there who are absolutely convinced they can become the next American Idol or make the NBA or become a self-made billionaire.  But they don't.  Because those things are extremely difficult and it takes a very rare combination of talent and luck to achieve them.  And you say "we can't prove or disprove" something that I think is certainly very testable.  One could quibble about "well, they didn't really set their mind to it", but that's getting into the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.  I have a friend who takes running very seriously.  He applies all the scientific training techniques known to mankind to his regimen, and he has for years wanted to run a sub-three-hour marathon.  I mean, desperately wanted to do this.  He came close a couple years ago, in the New York Marathon, where he finished in just over 3:03.  Other than that, though, he hasn't gotten under 3:10 in any of the many marathons he's run in.  And he is pushing fifty, and I just don't think it's in the cards.  But if he hasn't "set his mind to it", I don't know what setting your mind to something means.

14 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think too that we're pack animals.  We outgrow living with our family of origin and are conditioned to believe that the next logical pack is a family of procreation.  

On Maslow's hierarchy of needs, once we satisfy our survival and safety needs, we strive to fulfill love/belonging and self-esteem needs, then self-actualization.  And most people fall into the category of extroverts, who get a lot of their needs filled from direct interpersonal contact.  

Yup.  I don't presume to tell anyone else how to feel--if anyone reading this feels happy and fulfilled being more or less permanently single, that's great--but for me and for a lot of people, being paired up really is right above the very basics of survival and safety.  Which is why I think it's a dangerous message to tell people "don't settle", because I think in many cases they'd be happier settling than being alone, and the latter becomes likely if they get too picky.  But just like what I was talking about earlier in the thread, this goes against that "secular religion" and tends to get a lot of indignant pushback.

14 hours ago, Tiger said:

Completely disagree

Shocker.

4 hours ago, random chance said:

So true! One of the weird double standards that I come across a lot in books and movies is the not-so-attractive person who is in love with someone really good-looking, and the good-looking one is blamed for being too shallow to consider dating the not-so-attractive person. But why is the not-so-attractive person interested in them? Could it be because they're good-looking? If you're going to ask other people to look below the surface, you've got to do it too.

Right?  And, I mean, no one (or virtually no one) really thinks "looks don't matter".  In the Scarlett Johanssen movie Under the Skin, there is a severely disfigured character, played by an actor with those disfigurements in real life.  The character at one point

Spoiler

pinches himself, because he can't believe a hottie like her would be picking him up.

 I saw some people on IMDB say that was cruel or unfair or something.  But how many of them would be interested in dating someone who looked like that?  I've seen interviews with the actor, and he seems like a lovely guy, personality-wise.  But looks do matter, for the vast majority of people.  That's just reality.  And while as I've said elsewhere in this same post that I think pairing up is extremely important for most people, I would not go for someone who looked like Kate.  Even if I knew for a fact it was either be with her or with no one at all, she just doesn't rise above a minimum threshold of attractiveness to consider a non-platonic relationship with.  Not for me, and MMV obviously.  But I think that's true for a lot more people than would admit it.

I also agree with what you said at the end:

Quote

In all fairness she's going to be dieting for years, so it wasn't really that small of a hurdle.

It's a very big hurdle.  We've argued it endlessly, but whether people "should" be able to lose weight despite being around someone who eats "highly palatable" junk food all the time (I think that's expecting an awful lot), Kate clearly feels she can't.

Edited December 11, 2016 by SlackerInc
Thought I was in the episode thread--oops!

[HeySandyStrange]

45 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

 But looks do matter, for the vast majority of people.  That's just reality.  And while as I've said elsewhere in this same post that I think pairing up is extremely important for most people, I would not go for someone who looked like Kate.  Even if I knew for a fact it was either be with her or with no one at all, she just doesn't rise above a minimum threshold of attractiveness to consider a non-platonic relationship with.  Not for me, and MMV obviously.  But I think that's true for a lot more people than would admit it.

Looks matter, but has also been proven that most people end up with those of similar attractiveness, as well. Despite what the entertainment industry would like to tell us, the majority of us average people (and most of us regular folk are average in looks) will end up with other average people. Which is why it is puzzling when average people have such high standards and such little self-awareness. I'd thinks someone like Kate would know that better then most.

[SlackerInc]

But it's not that strange, as I say, because of this "secular religion" of "don't settle".  Which in many cases probably means keeping your nose up in the air, but then when approaching forty, panicking and quickly settling for less than you could have found in your twenties without those unrealistic high standards everyone told you you should have.