S03.E02: There Are Worse Things Than Murder

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

On a side note,when Nate came to the bathroom door glistening I thought "Oh Jesus..." Then I busted out laughing. Like really? This is all he has to do to earn that check. I can't even remember if he made another appearance in the episode. 

My first thought was they don't even bother to come up with excuses anymore.

I'm NOT complaining just to clarify.

Billy Brown looks like THAT and I'm always going to be here to laugh and snap those pictures but I'm attracted to Alfred Enoch in a way that is pretty intense.  I'm crazy about him.  I think probably because Billy looks unreal.  Who looks like that?  

I think I used to care about Oliver?  But man, I just don't anymore.  I think I'd much rather have Nate on my screen.  I feel totally spoiled and happy that the writers continue to stick with him.  He's my dessert.

Quote

Amy Madigan was absolutely stellar. Probably the best guest star they've ever had.

For me it's absolutely Cicely Tyson

Edited October 2, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[wanderingstar]

I re-watched this episode yesterday, and I think I am starting to understand Oliver's rationale for breaking up with Connor. He expected Connor to ream him out about deleting the Stanford acceptance letter, and when that didn't happen, he likely thought ok, what are you hiding that me doing something so awful bascially results in a shrug (I do wish this had been better conveyed on screen though). Plus, Oliver currently sees himself as just Connor's safe place, and he wants to get back to being his own person and not just half of Coliver.

That said, Oliver is obviously still torn because he really expected there to be no problems with him and Connor continuing to live and work together. Even with Connor now moved out, they will still both be working for Annalise. So I will be interested to see how they manage this new, coworkers-only relationship.

[Milaxx]

15 hours ago, penelope79 said:

Am I the only one who thought that Annalise was protecting Oliver this time around, in the flashback? Maybe he's the one who torched the house (perhaps he's been asked to, by Annalise?) and then found out there was someone inside. I don't know why but when he reached Annalise he already looked devastated, and I found their exchange suspicious. Paraphrasing:

Oliver: They say there was a body in there, is that true?

Annalise: They don't know for sure, don't let our mind go there

Oliver: Ok, but what if it's true?

Don't know you, but my first question would've been: "Annalise, so sorry about your home, are you ok? Is there anything I can do for you?" Instead,  Oliver's devastation for me seemed coming out from some guilt he felt in that moment and, to me, he looked like he already knew the house had been burned down. Of course, that was only my impression, apparently.

The fact Annalise did't confirm the corpse and/or who it was when talking to Oliver, made me think Connor could be the body. But for some reason I think the body does not belong to any of the K5.

My money is on Bonnie, Nate and Frank.

My point about secrets destroying a relationship and knowing each other's crazy is exactly why I don't see a Bonnie/Asher reunion happening any time. 

On the other hand I could see Oliver being the one who set the file based on instructions from Annalise. It could be why he's the first person there on the scene.

As for who the body is, unless Bonnie/Frank or one of the K5 is leaving the show, I don't think it's any of them. My current guess is Meggy, rude student guy or the new dean. If it must be one of the core group, I'd guess Frank. Outside shot, Nate who really is just eye candy at this point. Really outside shot, Wallace Mahoney's son surfaces, threatening Annalise and he's the one who was burned. I doubt this is the case since I don't think Annalise would be as upset, but on this show anything is possible.

I don't think getting rid of Wes absolves the others of Sam's murder. With the exception of Asher, they all were there and they all burned that body and cleaned up the crime scene. Pretty sure in the eyes of the law they are equally as guilty. Asher is guilty as well, just to a lesser degree because once he knew, hr did nothing about it. However Frank killed Lila and Asher killed the prosecutor, so in essence they are all murderers.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Milaxx

[starri]

21 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

However Frank killed Lila and Asher killed the prosecutor, so in essence they are all murderers.

And Bonnie killed Rebecca.

[Milaxx]

16 hours ago, Eolivet said:

I can't remember a single interaction Michaela and Asher had prior to hooking up.

Last season when Asher was staying with Connor & Oliver, Oliver tries to get rid of Asher by implying they would make a good couple.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Last season when Asher was staying with Connor & Oliver, Oliver tries to get rid of Asher by implying they would make a good couple.

I didn't realize at the time that that was foreshadowing.

[starri]

It occurs to me that perhaps the reason she lied to him about the body was not to indicate that it was Connor (indeed, I wonder if that might be misdirection), but to keep him from freaking out and not being clear-headed enough to do the things she needs him to do.  Oliver isn't Frank or Bonnie, he's not going to go into impassive fixer mode.

[Neurochick]

17 hours ago, Milaxx said:

It's also part of why I like the Asher/Michela hook up. They both know each other's crazy. Asher is growing and changing, but so is Michela.

I kind of like Asher/Michela together.  Both of them are so different from the people they were at the beginning of the first season.  Both of them were so sure about who and what they were going to be after graduation, but their association with Annalise and life has thrown both of them a curve and now they're together.  

[Milaxx]

I do have a few quibbles with episode.

1. Annalise wakes up with Nate she is in full face makeup and her wig. I could buy smudged or fading makeup, but her wig? On the other hand, we could see in future eps that Annalise got up and dressed then slipped back in bed. However since we've seen her poist coital with Sam, Eve and Nate not looking like this, it stands out.
2. Oliver offers Connor champagne to celebrate his win. As far as Oliver is concerned, Connor is a recovering alcoholic.  Why would he offer him champagne and risk triggering a binge?
3. Oliver tells Connor he once got caught trying on his mother's lingerie. Besides the fact that  gay =/= cross dressing, there's been nothing to suggest women's underwear was something Oliver was ever interested in. It just struck me as odd.

[Coxfires]

I really liked the episode and the case of the week, I'm glad we don't have a big Hapstall case this year. I really like how despite ruling out Oliver as the dead body, the show manages to drop hints that it could be Connor : him being the center of the episode, having him tell the client about his involvement in a murder, his current depression, and Annalise not telling Oliver who the body was... but knowing this show all of these could be huge red herrings, because with this show nothing is ever obvious, and that is why I like it. Also glad to see Connor win a case by himself with no sex or Oliver intervention, that is a first.

Annalise is still the biggest badass mastermind there is, atta girl.

[Milaxx]

• I know she was wearing a wig, my point is that in the past one of the few moments that she let her guard down and unmasked was in intimate moments with Nate and Eve.
• In season 1 when Connor bought sparkling cider to celebrate his alleged sobriety Oliver was worried that it might be a gateway to drinking. After Connor introduced Oliver to everyone at the bar, Oliver commended Connor on being at a bar and not drinking. 

None of these are the hill I want to die on but like I said these are minor quibbles, and they struck me as odd. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Milaxx

[J.D.]

I'm in heavy denial that the body could be Connor's, but it sure would explain why the writer's gave Oliver a job at Annalise's firm.  After all, if Jack Falahee leaves the show via his character dying, why keep Oliver on the show?  Oliver's not SO close to the other characters that he'd want to hang around with them after his boyfriend was horribly murdered at Annalise's house.  IRL the surviving member of that couple (Oliver) would want to get as far away as possible from any devastating reminders of what could have been if his boyfriend hadn't died.

By giving Oliver a job with Annalise, the writers would have a reason to keep his character in the story line.  Sure, he could withdraw, struggle, breakdown, cry.....and go through all the usual emotions of losing your partner, but the writers would still be able to give him a purpose on the show.

That said, I'm still in denial it could be Conner.  And if I'm wrong, I'mma have to throw myself on the floor and have a temper tantrum screaming, "Why, God, why?  Not Connor---!!!!   Take Asher instead.   I cannot stand him!!!  Michaela is totally wasting her time--!!!!"  :D

[TwistedandBored]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

For me it's absolutely Cicely Tyson

Yeah. Cicely Tyson is my absolute favorite guest of the show too. 

[FormerMod-a1]

Maybe the body is Rebecca's decomposing corpse. 

[Aleks]

As a confessed Coliver addict I am still not happy with the breakup. I am not on the track of Oliver being lying about his status but I (really) hope that the writers come up with a story explaining why he needs to be left alone. There is no plausible explanation yet - at that point I cannot understand the story writers at all. 

Devastated Connor seeing Asher at Michaela's was awesome - I loved that scene!

Wes describing Laurel as his best friend was awkward. Apart from her haunting Frank (or his voicemail) I felt jealousy in regard to Meggy. 

Michaela/Asher is a good laugh - hope it does not get too complicated though. 

I keep my fingers crossed for the Keating 5 to survive the fire. I deeply detest Bonnie from the first moment I saw her - so I would not be too sad losing her. 

[TheHappinessHotel]

I am not here for the Wes/Laurel possible pairing.  Frank and her have so much chemistry.  What a waste.

Poor Connor.  I really felt for him. 

[Fable]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

Maybe the body is Rebecca's decomposing corpse. 

That would certainly make an interesting twist!  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Connor Becoming A Great Lawyer On How To Get Away With Murder?

It looks that way...and he may be a good person to boot.

[helenamonster]

18 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Maybe the body is Rebecca's decomposing corpse. 

This is the one "not a major character death" option that I would be into. Not only would it bring Rebecca's disappearance/murder back to the forefront (it's kinda been left hanging since we found out it was Bonnie last season) but it would be nice for everyone to just know she's dead so that we can close that particular chapter. How long it takes for Bonnie to be found out (besides by Annalise and Frank) is a whole other issue.

Maybe Frank digs her up and puts her in Annalise's house as revenge? Aw man now I really want this.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/29/2016 at 11:07 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Line of the night: "I don't have time to strip you of all your terrible white habits." Too funny. I do wonder what direction they'll take with Michaela and Asher. 

I really didn't like that comment. While he is goofy and perhaps not up to her standards, I dislike when they bring race into it all the time. 

Laurel doesn't look at all impressed by Wes' attempts to be happy. As long as they're not hooking up, I'm happy. 

I was a bit confused when Annalise asked Wes to move in with her since I'd assumed Nate was already living there.

I also thought he was living there. Sure seemed like it. Not sure what his purpose is on the show. 

Too bad Connor was too devastated at moving out of Oliver's to snark on Michaela and Asher. I hope we get to see some trash talk from Connor about that. 

Fantastic episode, and as always, the last 5 minutes had me on the edge of my seat. As usual.

I thought I heard her say "Wipe it clean. Everything on it," while slipping him a cell phone. Yep,  that's what I heard, too. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/2/2016 at 2:20 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

My first thought was they don't even bother to come up with excuses anymore.

I'm NOT complaining just to clarify.

Billy Brown looks like THAT and I'm always going to be here to laugh and snap those pictures but I'm attracted to Alfred Enoch in a way that is pretty intense.  I'm crazy about him.  I think probably because Billy looks unreal.  Who looks like that?  

I think I used to care about Oliver?  But man, I just don't anymore.  I think I'd much rather have Nate on my screen.  I feel totally spoiled and happy that the writers continue to stick with him.  He's my dessert.

For me it's absolutely Cicely Tyson

I vote for Marcia Gay Harden.

[secnarf]

4 hours ago, helenamonster said:

This is the one "not a major character death" option that I would be into. Not only would it bring Rebecca's disappearance/murder back to the forefront (it's kinda been left hanging since we found out it was Bonnie last season) but it would be nice for everyone to just know she's dead so that we can close that particular chapter. How long it takes for Bonnie to be found out (besides by Annalise and Frank) is a whole other issue.

Maybe Frank digs her up and puts her in Annalise's house as revenge? Aw man now I really want this.

Interesting. My initial thought when someone brought up the idea that it could be Rebecca was that her body would be way decomposed and likely not recognizable/identifiable to AK. Then, when you suggested Frank putting her body in AK's house as revenge, I thought that would be kind of smart since the fire might cover the real cause of death if the body burned hot enough - not sure that would be enough to fool forensics, though.

Then, I realized that whoever the body is, it has to be recognizable. Could have died from smoke inhalation, but not burned in the fire.

I hope it's Nate. I don't see what purpose he has on the show, and IMO he's pretty dumb for staying with AK after everything she did to him.

[possibilities]

Rebecca's rotting corpse would also account for Annalise's freak out.

[KaveDweller]

I forget, do Wes and everyone know that Rebecca's dead?

[secnarf]

8 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I forget, do Wes and everyone know that Rebecca's dead?

AK told Wes that Rebecca's dead when she was trying to get him to shoot her. Laurel was there too. Whether or not they believed her is anyone's guess, though. Not sure if they told the others.

[Aleks]

Even if its not rotten Rebecca under the sheet I hope that they will come up with her story in some way. Its actually strange that nobody ever cared about her vanishing - even obsessed Waitlist didn't after shooting Annalise, nor did Laurel confront neither Wes or Anna what is really behind the story ...

Edited October 4, 2016 by Aleks

[helenamonster]

16 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I forget, do Wes and everyone know that Rebecca's dead?

Yeah, as secnarf said, besides Annalise telling Wes she was to get him to shoot her (which Laurel heard) they don't know for sure (and as doram said, I think they thought Annalise was lying in order to bait Wes into shooting her). And this week, when they were coming up with the list of possible Annalise stalkers, Rebecca was on it.

7 hours ago, doram said:

Didn't they and she said she just lied to psych Wes into shooting her? 

For what it's worth - I hope that no one (of the K5) ever know for sure what happened to Rebecca. They keep wondering and doubting to the very end of the show.

Like that is the quintessential 'How to Get Away with murder' when no one even knows that a murder was committed in the first place.

I kind of like this idea in theory, but I don't feel like Rebecca's death was big enough to be the one used. YMMV. If one of the 5 bites it (either as part of this season's mystery or later) then I feel like that might work better.

[KDeFlane]

Would it be too much of a trope if Oliver is pushing Connor away because his HIV+ is not responding to treatment? He acts like he wants them to stay together but no longer be intimate, and that pushing him away is a necessity. Nah, "I'm Dying" is too far into soap opera territory, even for this show.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, KDeFlane said:

Would it be too much of a trope if Oliver is pushing Connor away because his HIV+ is not responding to treatment? He acts like he wants them to stay together but no longer be intimate, and that pushing him away is a necessity. Nah, "I'm Dying" is too far into soap opera territory, even for this show.

Oliver has been portrayed as pretty responsible, so unless he's rebelling (which I could believe) and either not taking his antiretrovirals or even worse, taking them inconsistently, he should be okay. It's pretty rare to be newly-diagnosed with a multi-drug resistant strain. Definitely possible, but I'd raise my eyebrow at it because it would feel like manufactured drama to me.

Never mind that Connor was presumably still taking PrEP - if those drugs are ineffective, Connor needs to know. I'd like to think Oliver wouldn't be that reckless, and if he was, it would be inconsistent with his behaviour immediately post-diagnosis.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/1/2016 at 7:56 PM, penelope79 said:

Am I the only one who thought that Annalise was protecting Oliver this time around, in the flashback? Maybe he's the one who torched the house (perhaps he's been asked to, by Annalise?) and then found out there was someone inside. I don't know why but when he reached Annalise he already looked devastated, and I found their exchange suspicious. Paraphrasing:

Oliver: They say there was a body in there, is that true?

Annalise: They don't know for sure, don't let our mind go there

Oliver: Ok, but what if it's true?

Don't know you, but my first question would've been: "Annalise, so sorry about your home, are you ok? Is there anything I can do for you?" Instead,  Oliver's devastation for me seemed coming out from some guilt he felt in that moment and, to me, he looked like he already knew the house had been burned down. Of course, that was only my impression, apparently.

The fact Annalise did't confirm the corpse and/or who it was when talking to Oliver, made me think Connor could be the body. But for some reason I think the body does not belong to any of the K5.

My money is on Bonnie, Nate and Frank.

Usually I have some speculation but this time I got nothin'. I honestly don't know what's going on in this crazy show except that I'm still watching lol. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 10/3/2016 at 5:07 PM, possibilities said:

Rebecca's rotting corpse would also account for Annalise's freak out.

Yea but her freak-outs are followed by calm, collected moments where she instructs her team. Honestly , I'm not even sure where her pain/freaking out ends and her conniving antics begin. Remember when she was bleeding on the stand? It was real but then it wasn't. 

[Keepitmoving]

21 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

 

21 hours ago, love2lovebadtv said:

Yea but her freak-outs are followed by calm, collected moments where she instructs her team. Honestly , I'm not even sure where her pain/freaking out ends and her conniving antics begin. Remember when she was bleeding on the stand? It was real but then it wasn't. 

 

LOL, exactly. I'm not sure her screaming and crying in horror/agony, snot nosed and all is even real. She could be acting. Like, she knows exactly who's corpse is under that sheet because she herself committed the murder, or she's in the know of who did it. I'm going with the latter since I believe part of the answer to HTGAWM, is to manipulate people into positions to commit murders for you. So who did she get to set her house on fire? Even though she asks incredulously of the detective did he think she would set her own house on fire? To which I answered without hesitation, YES!

Edited October 6, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Bo-Peep22]

Asher/Michaela: They provide an interesting dynamic to the group that I find myself appreciating more and more with each episode, though I will say I was very proud of Asher for letting Michaela know that if she couldn't play nice then she certainly couldn't play with him. She seems to have it in her head that she's so much better than him but she's honestly one of the more annoying characters on this show. My hope for this relationship is that Asher helps her laugh at herself a little bit more and not take herself so seriously all the time. 

Colliver: I feel like Oliver just got sick of being perched up on some pedestal 24/7. He's not stupid and I'm sure its obvious that the Keating 5 is hiding something that Connie just wasn't willing to drag him into so...he put himself in it. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Bo-Peep22
spelling mistake

[Negritude]

So in this episode Nate was nekkid and dripping wet and other stuff happened. Out of all of the outrageous mess that goes down on this show, her continuous dismissal of that fine a$$ chocolate man is the most unbelievable. I woulda threw that damn phone down so fast when he asked to join him in the shower...

There were a few references to "old white men" and "white habits" and the stuff Matt McGorry's character was saying to Amy Madigan in their scene together. It was a bit eyeroll inducing especially knowing that while Shonda Rhimes is EP, the show's creator and probably a good portion of the writing staff are white men. I'd rather see less white male bashing and more POC characters on this show written more authentically. I mean it's set in Philly for Christ's sake.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Negritude

[Milaxx]

41 minutes ago, Negritude said:

There were a few references to "old white men" and "white habits" and the stuff Matt McGorry's character was saying to Amy Madigan in their scene together. It was a bit eyeroll inducing especially knowing that while Shonda Rhimes is EP, the show's creator and probably a good portion of the writing staff are white men. I'd rather see less white male bashing and more POC characters on this show written more authentically. I mean it's set in Philly for Christ's sake.

According to IMDB the staff is pretty diverse. Not everyone has a picture with their credits, but I see not only several women listed as part of the writing staff, but several WOC. 

 

Quote

Peter Nowalk    ...    (creator) (45 episodes, 2014-2016)
Erika Harrison    ...    (9 episodes, 2015-2016)
Michael Foley    ...    (6 episodes, 2014-2016)
Erika Green Swafford    ...    (6 episodes, 2014-2016)
Warren Hsu Leonard    ...    (4 episodes, 2014-2016)
Joe Fazzio    ...    (3 episodes, 2015-2016)
J.C. Lee    ...    (3 episodes, 2016)
Tracy Bellomo    ...    (2 episodes, 2014-2015)
Doug Stockstill    ...    (2 episodes, 2014-2015)
Angela Robinson    ...    (2 episodes, 2015-2016)
Tanya Saracho    ...    (2 episodes, 2015-2016)
Morenike Balogun    ...    (2 episodes, 2016)
Fernanda Coppel    ...    (2 episodes, 2016)
Rob Fresco    ...    (1 episode, 2014)
Marcus Dalzine    ...    (1 episode, 2015)
Sarah L. Thompson    ...    (1 episode, 2015)

[Negritude]

17 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

According to IMDB the staff is pretty diverse. Not everyone has a picture with their credits, but I see not only several women listed as part of the writing staff, but several WOC. 

 

That's cool, but it wasn't really my point.  I said a good portion, so even with the throwing white dudes under the bus, they're still there and in positions of power behind the scenes. It just came across like crumb throwing to me.

[Milaxx]

I'm unclear if the concern is Billy Brown being under used this season or the the discussion of "old white men".  While it may be true that in Hollywood, the balance of power is a bit uneven in Shondaland it has been proven to be a bit more balanced. As far as the clunkiness of what Asher said when trying to sell himself to the Amy Madigan character, it came across to me as part of the general awkwardness of the character, not much different than the foot in mouth scene from last season when he finds out Oliver is HIV+ and greets him with that word vomit about liking the movie Philadelphia and considering him brave.

[teenj12]

I thought this episode had the best COTW of Season 3 so far. It actually moved me to tears, and I was so relieved when the client was let off. Suffering that much abuse and trauma is something beyond what I could even imagine. It's interesting that most of the time I can divide these COTW's into three different categories.

1. The emotional ones, like this episode.

2. The ones with a scandalous twist, like in 'Don't Tell Annalise'.

3. The bland/boring ones, like in 'Always Bet Black' (I'm sure there's better examples for this category, but I can't be bothered right now to look back xP)