S13.E02: Catastrophe and the Cure

[Starscream]

8 hours ago, mojito said:

I hear ya. Perhaps a little bit of projection from Shonda's own life.

I've always thought Bailey and Meredith were Shonda's wish fulfillment characters the way seemingly every available hunky guy pines after them.  I'm surprised Dead Denny hasn't made a move on one of them.

Speaking of Dead Denny... I wish Bailey would have acknowledged that extra layer of torture in Alex's punishment.

30 minutes ago, bikebrh said:

Well, as remiss as they have been about Indian-Asian doctors, You can't have forgotten Christina Yang already, have you? That's really the only place they have been remiss racially. The doctor staff is way blacker than any real-life hospital I've ever been to, especially that high in the power structure. It could stand to be a little more Jewish, but then again, I don't know if we know the religious background of every white character.

Cristina was their Asian AND Jewish doctor.  It was like bizarro world tokenism.

[mdw]

This may seem like a nitpicking criticism, but I found it odd that Meredith's children were completely absent in the last two episodes. There isn't even any reference to them. The show doesn't need to feature them heavily in the episodes but they could include a throwaway line of dialogue here and there just so that they'd seem to exist  offscreen. It bugs me because it takes me out of the drama whenever they have scenes in Meredith's house or, for example, when Meredith was dealing with Alex's problems in the first episode. Also, there wasn't any reference to the state of Meredith's kitchen table or kitchen for that matter after April's c-section. 

[Chas411]

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*Cough*LVADwire*Cough*

That was awful and she should have been fired on the spot but it still wasn't her beating up another regular character to within an inch of their life. 

[gator12]

You guys wouldn't want more religious characters with how they write April.

[Tiger]

8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I didn't know she was in the running for another Shonda show. But yes now there's a struggle for what to do with Stephanie. She had her big arc last season with Fez, which yes would have been a nice send off. Now she has to be a tag along to Jos arc.

This is getting really off-topic, but yeah Jerika Hinton was cast as the female lead in "Toast" last spring which I think was a sitcom.  I cant remember what the pilot in '15 was, but the network didnt pick up either obviously.  

Anyway, I full expect Hinton to be cast in another Shonda pilot this year and consequently for Stephanie to have no story.

[timimouse]

On 9/29/2016 at 9:38 PM, kurtz said:

Only Kepner can sing a lascivious song and make it sound like a hymn. 

I wondered if I was the only one that thought the song choice was a bit inappropriate.

On 9/29/2016 at 11:07 PM, izabella said:

I liked Bailey in this episode, too, but I wish she'd ordered Alex to start seeing a psychiatrist while he's working in the clinic.  He's a mess right now, and he needs to start getting more control over his feelings.

This whole triangle highlights one of the reasons I've always hated Meredith.  She could have defused the Riggs thing long ago if she's just told Maggie the truth during one of the many opportunities she had to do so.  But nooooo.  Not Meredith.  She has to lie and sneak around and try to control everyone and everything, going so far as to tell Riggs what he should do when Maggie asks him out.  And she's so smug about it all, too, like she thinks she's taking the high road,.

Agreed, Alex needs to seek counselling and not just talk to Meredith who is an even bigger mess than him.

I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if this is repetitive ... Firstly, did Meredith tell Riggs to say "no" to Maggie? I'm confused as to why she would do that. Isn't the whole point of her stepping back was to give Maggie free reign on Riggs? Also, I didn't understand why she would change her mind about attending Amelia's "House Warming Party" (which it was not) only after Maggie agreed to go. Shouldn't she just let them spend as much time together and disappear from the situation completely? I'm not pro this triangle at all and I'm not understanding the actions of those involved, which is annoying me even more and making me less interested.

As to the episode, I quite enjoyed it. As I've said before, I'm not a fan of Jo's and I love Alex but I don't think the writing was biased towards Alex in any way. I completely agree with Jo staying away from him. Actions like that would scare me too, especially if I came from an abusive background. (That is, ignoring that she herself went psycho on the gynaecologist a few season back). I think Alex IS sorry for his actions but she's right, you don't just say sorry and think things get magically erased and I'm glad to see he's facing the consequences of all his actions, not just the beat-down. I'll be ok with watching these stories play out. And I'm very much all for Jackson and April, just don't want to see it dragged out for too long and I really hope they deal with their issues first because those also haven't just magically disappeared. Communication people. Seriously.
Finally, Owen and Amelia.... UGH! I really wish they had decided to stay on honeymoon forever. They both over-act every scene and it takes away from the drama rather than add to it.

I recently re-watched the series and realised Maggie was not introduced as this immature person. She actually came off very level headed and serious. Young, yes, but not child-like. Her writing has regressed significantly and I'm hoping the writers that troll these forums pick up on the viewers not being happy about it. 

[Joana]

25 minutes ago, timimouse said:

I haven't read all the posts so forgive me if this is repetitive ... Firstly, did Meredith tell Riggs to say "no" to Maggie? I'm confused as to why she would do that. Isn't the whole point of her stepping back was to give Maggie free reign on Riggs? Also, I didn't understand why she would change her mind about attending Amelia's "House Warming Party" (which it was not) only after Maggie agreed to go. Shouldn't she just let them spend as much time together and disappear from the situation completely? I'm not pro this triangle at all and I'm not understanding the actions of those involved, which is annoying me even more and making me less interested.

I think it was supposed to convey Meredith's internal conflict between her feelings for Riggs and the loyalty to her sister. She doesn't want to lose him, but she also wants to save her from heartbreak and so she's doing things that seem contradictory. 

The problem is IMO in Pompeo's acting. She's just not selling it for some reason and Meredith mostly appears disinterested in Riggs, which then makes it look like she's playing games with Maggie. I really don't think that was the intention. 

[Perkie]

First let me just say that I watch this show freely, meaning no one punches my eyeball out of it's socket to force me to watch, and yes, I understand that it's a soap and characters don't behave like normal people would but sometimes I want to reach into my tv and punch someone's eyeball out of it's socket.

1.  Jo.  Yes Alex was completely in the wrong for his attack and should totally pay, but Jo's a lying liar who lies who set this whole ball in motion.  Why did she not tell Alex minute one that she'd been and was still married to an abusive douchebag?  Why didn't she tell him when  he proposed?  You're in a serious relationship with someone, even if he wasn't about to propose, and you dont' mention a giant piece of info like that?  Hell, he still doesn't know.  And why is she still married?  Why hasn't douchebag come to find her?  Did she legally change her name so he couldn't find her?  If yes, why couldn't she divorce him while she was it?  So much stupid, it hurts.

2.  Maggie.  She asked him out he said no, but she's still thinking she might ask him again later.  Here's a crazy thought, move the fuck on.  He's not interested in you.  I hate when writers write women so desperate and needy.  

3.  Meredith.  Why?  Why can't she tell Maggie that Riggs has the hots for her but that she's trying to turn him down.  I know that it's for some stupid showdown down the road but I've seen those showdowns and I'm done with them.  

4.  Harriet:  I know they can't use new born babies so babies used are usually at least 4 months old, but I always get distracted at the size of the newborn and what they're capable of doing.  Sometimes I go with it, sometimes it takes me out of the scene completely.  Seeing that gorgeous baby holding her head up just made me shake my head.  Although it is much better than when the actors are holding a doll in a blanket and it's very obviously not a human baby.  

5.  Do better Shonda.  

End of rant!!

[thewhiteowl]

JC really sold Alex's remorse and I'm buying that even though I'm not entirely sure why he is remorseful. He doesn't seem to feel bad that he hurt Deluca just that he has consequences. Which is kind of understandable since no one else has ever had any of those. It's probably a shock. 

Meredith doesn't seem to really want Riggs but tells him to say no to Maggie. Girl, if you are going to step back from him, you don't get to do that.  That's the halfway shit that's going to bite you in the ass and hurt Maggie. 

If Maggie still pursues Riggs after he said no, she's an idiot and as his boss could be up on charges of sexual harassment. If this weren't Grey's. lol

Not a bad episode and it is refreshing not to hate Bailey. 

[Deanie87]

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1.  Jo.  Yes Alex was completely in the wrong for his attack and should totally pay, but Jo's a lying liar who lies who set this whole ball in motion.  Why did she not tell Alex minute one that she'd been and was still married to an abusive douchebag?  Why didn't she tell him when  he proposed?  You're in a serious relationship with someone, even if he wasn't about to propose, and you dont' mention a giant piece of info like that?  Hell, he still doesn't know.  And why is she still married?  Why hasn't douchebag come to find her?  Did she legally change her name so he couldn't find her?  If yes, why couldn't she divorce him while she was it?  So much stupid, it hurts.

Well, the real and obvious answer is because the writers thought up the the secret husband 5 minutes ago.  Therefore, Jo didn't tell Alex she was married because she had no idea that she was.  However, we are to assume that she didn't tell Alex because she was afraid to tell anyone because she didn't want him to find her and because she was afraid of what Alex would do (which seeing what he did to DeLuca, maybe she was right about that.)  We are only 2 episodes into this storyline yet, so we don't know the full story, other than yes, at some point she changed her name and has been in hiding.  Maybe she was advised never to tell anyone or maybe she is just so terrified that she thought it was what she had to do to survive.  I understand that Jo is nothing but a bitch who lies, lies, lies and that she is to blame for everything, including forcing Alex to beat DeLuca to a pulp, BUT the storyline has not played out yet, so I'm trying to reserve complete judgement until it does.

33 minutes ago, thewhiteowl said:

Meredith doesn't seem to really want Riggs but tells him to say no to Maggie. Girl, if you are going to step back from him, you don't get to do that.  That's the halfway shit that's going to bite you in the ass and hurt Maggie. 

 It reminds me of Izzie's line to Alex, "I don't want you, but I don't want you to want anyone else either."  I really don't think that's what they are going for, but its not a great look.  And I agree that if Meredith/Pompeo seemed a little bit more into Riggs then Meredith's dilemma between trying to save Maggie's feelings, but still being drawn to Riggs would work better.  Its weird, sometimes I think that Meredith and Riggs have good chemistry (like on the elevator last year and when they were flirting about the car sex), but other times there's just nothing.  I don't think that Pompeo is a bad actress at all, but some of her choices over the last few seasons confuse me.  I don't know if its her or the direction that's she's getting but Meredith just seems oddly flat or downright cold at times.

[WhosThatGirl]

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Meredith just seems oddly flat or downright cold at times.

She really does. She never seems all that engaged with anyone. The only episode last season where she had some emotion was the episode where Owen sold Derek's trailer and Meredith was all angry and then lost her mind on Amelia telling Amelia she had no life and was taking pieces of other people's lives or something. But I think I'm supposed to buy that Mer really likes Riggs but she's holding off on her feelings because of Maggie but.. it never plays that well in any scenes.

[Chas411]

I think she's been cold since season 11. Even in scenes with Alex and Maggie when she's being supportive she comes off as cold. Her scenes with Amelia are awful to watch as she comes off like a bully half the time.

She always had issues with her direct family but up until the end of season ten she always came off as warm and caring to a degree. It's one of the things that made her endearing. Now I dont know why anybody would choose to be around her full time.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Chas411

[Deanie87]

I thought that the scenes with Bailey and Alex this season so far have been great, and she seems much more like the Meredith of the earlier seasons.  Maybe its just that she has a comfort level with them since she has been working with them for so long.  

[mdw]

49 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

She really does. She never seems all that engaged with anyone. The only episode last season where she had some emotion was the episode where Owen sold Derek's trailer and Meredith was all angry and then lost her mind on Amelia telling Amelia she had no life and was taking pieces of other people's lives or something. But I think I'm supposed to buy that Mer really likes Riggs but she's holding off on her feelings because of Maggie but.. it never plays that well in any scenes.

I think that Meredith likes Riggs, but not enough to pursue a relationship with him, especially given that Maggie has a crush on him. I think that she is still testing the waters of dating again and isn't ready to be in a relationship yet. Stepping aside for Maggie's sake allows her to give herself a pretense for rejecting him. She might not want to tell Maggie now and may not have wanted to tell her even before Maggie revealed that she had a crush on Riggs because Maggie makes such a big deal over things. As much as Meredith wants a familial relationship with Maggie and cares for her, Maggie doesn't really get Meredith. Maggie's reactions to developments in Meredith's romantic life, given that Meredith has conflicting and painful feelings to contend with, probably set Meredith on edge. I think that Meredith knows that Riggs is really into her (Meredith), but she doesn't want Maggie to get hurt, given that Maggie is very immature emotionally, so she told Riggs to let Maggie down kindly. This way, in what I think is Meredith's logic, Maggie doesn't get too hurt and turns her romantic feelings away from Riggs, Meredith still has a viable reason for not yet dating, and she can evade an overly personal conversation with Maggie. We'll probably get insight into Meredith's thoughts and feelings now that Meredith has told Alex.

At this point, given that Maggie is not giving up in the face of rejection, Meredith and Alex need to use all of their powers of persuasion to convince Maggie that Riggs saying no really means that he doesn't want to date her and the reason that he gave her was him trying to spare her feelings. Meredith should really just come clean with Maggie and deal with the emotional fallout. It's only going to get worse.

[tapplum]

1 hour ago, Chas411 said:

I think she's been cold since season 11. [...] up until the end of season ten she always came off as warm and caring to a degree.

So basically she turned cold when Cristina left. That actually makes quite a bit of sense.

[Deanie87]

44 minutes ago, mdw said:

I think that Meredith likes Riggs, but not enough to pursue a relationship with him, especially given that Maggie has a crush on him. I think that she is still testing the waters of dating again and isn't ready to be in a relationship yet. Stepping aside for Maggie's sake allows her to give herself a pretense for rejecting him. She might not want to tell Maggie now and may not have wanted to tell her even before Maggie revealed that she had a crush on Riggs because Maggie makes such a big deal over things. As much as Meredith wants a familial relationship with Maggie and cares for her, Maggie doesn't really get Meredith. Maggie's reactions to developments in Meredith's romantic life, given that Meredith has conflicting and painful feelings to contend with, probably set Meredith on edge. I think that Meredith knows that Riggs is really into her (Meredith), but she doesn't want Maggie to get hurt, given that Maggie is very immature emotionally, so she told Riggs to let Maggie down kindly. This way, in what I think is Meredith's logic, Maggie doesn't get too hurt and turns her romantic feelings away from Riggs, Meredith still has a viable reason for not yet dating, and she can evade an overly personal conversation with Maggie. We'll probably get insight into Meredith's thoughts and feelings now that Meredith has told Alex.

At this point, given that Maggie is not giving up in the face of rejection, Meredith and Alex need to use all of their powers of persuasion to convince Maggie that Riggs saying no really means that he doesn't want to date her and the reason that he gave her was him trying to spare her feelings. Meredith should really just come clean with Maggie and deal with the emotional fallout. It's only going to get worse.

I think that this is right, but I'm not sure then how they end up going forward.  I guess Riggs isn't into Maggie, so is he just going to badger Meredith episode after episode?  And Maggie will keep badgering him?  Maybe Riggs and Meredith will just have a flirty friendship until she decides she's ready?  I don't know it just doesn't seem all that well planned out. Unfortunately, it seems like when the writers aren't pulling things out of their ass at the last minute, they are drawing it out to the point that no one cares anymore.  

Also, for the love of god, can we please keep Alex out of it?  He has enough on his plate without getting involved in the high school drama.  I have just started really enjoying the Mer/Alex friendship again and I don't want to see it devolve into him just listening to the sisters' love life woes.  Seriously.

[Chicken Wing]

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1.  Jo.  Yes Alex was completely in the wrong for his attack and should totally pay, but Jo's a lying liar who lies who set this whole ball in motion.  Why did she not tell Alex minute one that she'd been and was still married to an abusive douchebag?  Why didn't she tell him when  he proposed?  You're in a serious relationship with someone, even if he wasn't about to propose, and you dont' mention a giant piece of info like that?  Hell, he still doesn't know.  And why is she still married?  Why hasn't douchebag come to find her?  Did she legally change her name so he couldn't find her?  If yes, why couldn't she divorce him while she was it?  So much stupid, it hurts.

Jo only set this ball in motion if we look at the situation as a loooooong chain of cause and effect, like, it's Bob's fault that Bill got into a car accident because Bob was the one who finished the carton of milk which made Bill want to go to the store to buy more which caused Bill to happen to be on that particular street when that drunk driver came tearing around the corner. In other words, no. Jo keeping her stupid secret is the reason she and Alex were fighting and why she felt the need to get stinking, stumbling drunk that night. You can even say Jo is to blame for her and DeLuca being in a compromising position on which Alex walked in. But Jo didn't make Alex overreact and she certainly didn't make him beat DeLuca into hamburger meat.

As far as Jo and her secrets, the writers clearly made up this secret marriage thing at the last minute so I can't judge Jo's behavior in the past (never having told Alex at any point, etc.) in that context other than to entertain myself counting the plot holes that her retconned past creates in the storyline. As far as your other questions, she explained to DeLuca in the season finale that Jo Wilson is not even her real name*, obviously so her husband wouldn't be able to find her under her actual name, and she can't divorce him because then he'd be able to figure out where she is.

*The show hasn't explained -- and probably won't -- if she actually legally changed her name to Jo Wilson (which you can't just up and do with no one knowing) or how that not being her real name plays into how she was able to go to medical school, apply for a medical license and submit to all the background checks involved therein. But whatever, show.

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4.  Harriet:  I know they can't use new born babies so babies used are usually at least 4 months old, but I always get distracted at the size of the newborn and what they're capable of doing.  Sometimes I go with it, sometimes it takes me out of the scene completely.  Seeing that gorgeous baby holding her head up just made me shake my head.

Word to this. I accept that TV newborns are played by four-months-olds in any scene taking place more than five minutes after birth, but I actually shook my damn head at the sight of Harriet holding up her head and looking around. Stop it.

[windsprints]

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I think she's been cold since season 11

I think she's been cold since S4-5 for the most part other than Cristina and Derek (mostly). She's had flashes of not being cold to others but its usually when they've done something for her.  Yes, I realize that is a UO on here.

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I think that Meredith likes Riggs, but not enough to pursue a relationship with him, especially given that Maggie has a crush on him.

 If that is the case Meredith needs to act like an adult and tell Riggs she does not want a relationship and stop being coy and flirty when it suits her.  Being manipulative and lying benefits neither Maggie or Riggs. It only benefits Meredith who has her sister believing she isn't a liar and Riggs believing he has a chance.

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I accept that TV newborns are played by four-months-olds in any scene taking place more than five minutes after birth, but I actually shook my damn head at the sight of Harriet holding up her head and looking around. Stop it.

 I agree about tv babies always being so much older.  However, baby Harriett looks like a preemie compare to the giant headed (because she was playing a newborn,not in general) baby Ellis.

[Chicken Wing]

Baby Ellis looked like a first-grader.

[Maukie99]

The problem with Meredith is yes, they just can not tell Nathan that he should stop to ensnare them and flatter and flirt with her, because she loves and she has feelings for Nathan. Your feelings go straight roller coaster in terms Nathan. So they can not say that he should leave them alone, because they it really really like Nathan.

[mdw]

3 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I think that this is right, but I'm not sure then how they end up going forward.  I guess Riggs isn't into Maggie, so is he just going to badger Meredith episode after episode?  And Maggie will keep badgering him?  Maybe Riggs and Meredith will just have a flirty friendship until she decides she's ready?  I don't know it just doesn't seem all that well planned out. Unfortunately, it seems like when the writers aren't pulling things out of their ass at the last minute, they are drawing it out to the point that no one cares anymore.  

Also, for the love of god, can we please keep Alex out of it?  He has enough on his plate without getting involved in the high school drama.  I have just started really enjoying the Mer/Alex friendship again and I don't want to see it devolve into him just listening to the sisters' love life woes.  Seriously.

I think the Maggie and Meredith issue with Riggs will resolve itself in the next couple of episodes. One of the upcoming episode descriptions said something about Amelia getting involved with a problem with the sisters, I think. I don't know what will happen with Meredith and Riggs. Hopefully, he won't continue to go after Meredith unless she is also flirtatious with him. His character seems to have been created to be her post-Derek romantic partner, but I would like to see Meredith date a little bit more and get to know Riggs better before getting into a relationship with him. I liked Meredith and Riggs' scenes together in the finale and prefer the notion that they edge together slowly and in fits and starts.

 

I don't want Alex to get sidetracked into a supportive role in Meredith's life either, although I'd like one conversation between the two of them about Maggie and Riggs to get insight into what Meredith is thinking/feeling. Mostly, I want to see Meredith continue to be there for Alex and for his focus to be on his life.

[Spiderella2]

On October 1, 2016 at 0:28 PM, FrancesL said:

I like the Jackson April story but I agree with the poster who said that they seem to be in their own show.  The stories of the other cast members are much better intertwined.  I must admit that I'm not a fan of Jo. Somewhere in the midst of constantly making Alex feel guilty about not giving her the attention she needed, she should have let him know that she was already married. However, Alex overreacted and nearly killed a guy and that's on him. I can't blame Jo for that.  I also agree that it probably wasn't Meredith's intention to threaten DeLuca, but she should have realized that it would not be appropriate for someone in her position of authority to put pressure on an intern . Add that to the fake concern and I can't blame DeLuca for his response.

Maggie was one of my favorite characters last season so I really dislike that her character is being used as a means of furthering this "forbidden love" drama between Meredith and Riggs. And do they have to make her act like an obsessed 12 year old girl?  It's particularly infuriating, given her history with Riggs.  Maggie was Riggs' superior, but when he first arrived, she had to deal with his overbearing arrogance and inability to listen to anyone else. Over time, they seemed to gain a certain amount of mutual respect, which is why it's disappointing that the writers decided to change the power dynamics between those two.  As if that weren't enough, we have Meredith  secretly telling Riggs about Maggie's feelings, and then encouraging Maggie to ask him out. I guess Mer would rather see her sister completely embarrass herself than be in the awkward position of telling her that she hooked up with Riggs. Meredith's actions seemed cruel and self-centered, but probably not too surprising, given the way she's treated Amelia and Jo.  BTW, I could have sworn there was a lot of chemistry between Maggie and Riggs last season. Certainly more than anything I've seen with Riggs and Meredith. 

I'm  wondering if Stephanie will ever get a decent story with longevity, or one that doesn't revolve around Jo. Even the fact that she's still Jo's best friend after what Jo almost got her in trouble with Amelia, tells me that the writers can't even take the time to explore what this character should really be feeling.  Not everyone will be as sensitive about these things, but I also wish that the role of female-pining-for-guy-who-isn't-as-interested-in-her  didn't always have to go to one of the two single black female regulars on the show. Yes, maybe it's a bit of an overstatement, but I still notice a difference.  Meredith, Izzie, Christina, Jo and April haven't had smooth relationships, but at the end of the day, most of the men in their lives would have gone to hell and back for them. Meredith would never get dumped by an intern (much less date one), or dream about a guy who barely noticed her; after all,  it's a foregone conclusion that every attractive successful guy over 40 is going fall head over heals in love with her.  On the other hand, Stephanie gets dumped by Jackson in the worst way possible and then accidentally asks out a high school student, and Maggie gets dumped by an intern and now obsesses over a colleague who only has eyes for Meredith. Stephanie's fleeting 5-episode romantic tragedy with a guest character doesn't count because even the writers can barely remember that it happened. I guess I should be grateful that Bailey's in a stable relationship even if it's not particularly exciting. It's odd to complain about this in a Shonda Rhimes show and admittedly, it could just be a coincidence, but that still doesn't mean that viewers won't be sensitive to it.  I'm curious to know if anyone feels the same way. I also haven't watched every Greys anatomy season,  so I could be wrong. 

I'm also waiting for a true Stephanie-plot line and happily ever after. Jo is a horrible friend to her, and yet, Stephanie still subverts her own needs, wishes, and career to help out Jo. Especially after all the crap that Jo has done to her. At one point, I thought Stephanie was going to be the next neuro-goddess and general badass, but lately she's just been a doormat. She is a strong character and has so much potential. We know nothing about her family, her motivations, or her background besides the fact that she was cured from sickle cell when she was kid. Actually, about that, even though she was cured via bone marrow transplant (which only happens in less than 1% of the total SCD population the in US), she should still have residual issues and be on anti-rejection drugs. She had this love interest who died, and no one seemed to care or help  her through her grief. Everything about her story seems inconsistent and an afterthought. 

20 hours ago, maddie965 said:

I thought that was one of the worst episodes of GA I've ever seen. I see nothing remotely real about the way they are handling Alex situation (he should be devasted by guilty and not able to talk to Jo at all), or DeLucca situation (he should be traumatized and talking to people about what happened), or Jo situation (she should be feeling guilty and scared, not just angry). And that triangle is just a (bad) joke. I wish Maggie would die, so I wouldn't have to listen to her voice ever again. And I wish Meredith would have mindblowing sex with Riggs and then send him away for good. End of story.

The only good scene was with Alex and Bailey. Very realistic, I thought. Until I heard Bailey ask Alex if he wanted to get fired. Did I dream this, or did Cristina give Alex her share in the hospital society, a long time ago, when we were told the doctors owned the hospital? How could he be fired if he's a partner? Or are we supposed to forget that it happened at all? I swear, this show...

He could still own the hospital and be a part of the Board, but lose his medical license for the assault and not be able to work in the hospital as a doctor anymore. The two are not mutually exclusive. Owning the hospital does not mean he works there full time. Look at Mrs Avery (Jackson's mom). 

Also, even if he 'wins' the case in court for the assault, in the real world, he would probably be under review, be suspended by the Medical Board for a few months, be on probation,  and may even lose his medical license to practice. Any felony automatically would trigger a Medical licensure review, and he couldn't work until he was reinstated. The show hasn't even realistically explored that. 

16 hours ago, mdw said:

This may seem like a nitpicking criticism, but I found it odd that Meredith's children were completely absent in the last two episodes. There isn't even any reference to them. The show doesn't need to feature them heavily in the episodes but they could include a throwaway line of dialogue here and there just so that they'd seem to exist  offscreen. It bugs me because it takes me out of the drama whenever they have scenes in Meredith's house or, for example, when Meredith was dealing with Alex's problems in the first episode. Also, there wasn't any reference to the state of Meredith's kitchen table or kitchen for that matter after April's c-section. 

I agree. I know they can't have child actors on set all the time, but Mer should at least mention them in general conversation. Like "shhhh, the kids are sleeping", or "Zola has homework", "Bailey kept me up last night with his earache", or anything. Instead, it's like they don't even exist. Maggie too. My sister lives with me, and when she comes home, she always asks how the boys are, even if she doesn't see them.

Also, it's odd that Mer doesn't have a nanny/personal assistant. I know that the hospital has all-day daycare, but she is always at the hospital. Who schleps the kids around to activities, doctors appointments, buys groceries etc. while the docs are working all the freaking time? Magical elves I guess. When McDouchey was still on the show, there seemed to be more coordination and presence of the kids, but now it seems like Mer shipped them all off to boarding school. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Spiderella2
More thoughts

[Court]

On 10/1/2016 at 9:02 AM, gator12 said:

She can count her blessing and still be sad/cry and have a breakdown over not being able to hold, go home and bond with her baby.

I know y'all hate her but some of you are way harsh.

 

Agreed. I had to leave my middle daughter at the hospital in the NICU and it was one of the most difficult things I've ever had to. I couldn't even walk out of the hospital, I was so upset. I really identified with April. I couldn't hold my baby for the first two days and I was upset. Of course, I was thankful she was alive and doing well. 

In all likelihood, the baby would be allowed to room in with April. My youngest child roomed in with me after her birth. I was fine to go home but she wasn't so we both stayed at the hospital. 

Bailey can take several seats. All the drs have almost killed or killed their patients at this point. She injected HIV against the parents wishes! 

[Maukie99]

12 hours ago, mdw said:

I think the Maggie and Meredith issue with Riggs will resolve itself in the next couple of episodes. One of the upcoming episode descriptions said something about Amelia getting involved with a problem with the sisters, I think. I don't know what will happen with Meredith and Riggs. Hopefully, he won't continue to go after Meredith unless she is also flirtatious with him. His character seems to have been created to be her post-Derek romantic partner, but I would like to see Meredith date a little bit more and get to know Riggs better before getting into a relationship with him. I liked Meredith and Riggs' scenes together in the finale and prefer the notion that they edge together slowly and in fits and starts.

 

I don't want Alex to get sidetracked into a supportive role in Meredith's life either, although I'd like one conversation between the two of them about Maggie and Riggs to get insight into what Meredith is thinking/feeling. Mostly, I want to see Meredith continue to be there for Alex and for his focus to be on his life.

I also want it to tackle Meredith and Nathan slowly, they may be a pair yes, but take it anyway slowly. Go to sample together and have dates where they can get to know better. As for Alex, of course he has to focus on his own life with Jo that both get it back on track, but he is also keeping an eye on Nathan have, because he now knows that Meredith had sex with him. I think Alex does not want the Meredith is hurt after all they did through.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Maukie99

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

Also, there wasn't any reference to the state of Meredith's kitchen table or kitchen for that matter after April's c-section. 

It probably looked like a murder scene, and I'm sure Meredith didn't even bat an eye. Just another day in the life.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Grey's Anatomy's Alex A Felonious Punk?

Alex gets hit with a felony charge, Meredith remains ride or die, and everyone else chooses sides.

[taanja]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 1:31 AM, mdw said:

This may seem like a nitpicking criticism, but I found it odd that Meredith's children were completely absent in the last two episodes. There isn't even any reference to them. The show doesn't need to feature them heavily in the episodes but they could include a throwaway line of dialogue here and there just so that they'd seem to exist  offscreen. It bugs me because it takes me out of the drama whenever they have scenes in Meredith's house or, for example, when Meredith was dealing with Alex's problems in the first episode. Also, there wasn't any reference to the state of Meredith's kitchen table or kitchen for that matter after April's c-section. 

Any time I read about Meredith's kids I always go...wait! what? Mere has kids?

...and then I go...Why oh why did the writers/creators/producers saddle Mere of all characters with children??? Why? and how many does she have? a gaggle? jeeze!

I prefer to just forget them all (seriously how the hell many kids does she have?) << so annoying! and I really don't mind if they live permanently at daycare. I would like it if they could somehow...someway... just disappear forever in the parking lot of no return.

[WhosThatGirl]

I keep forgetting that Meredith has three kids! I keep forgetting she had a third when she disappeared for six months after Derek died ana only answered Alex's calls and then returned with a baby! It's like the show kept giving her kids for a story but the problem is there are never explanations for where they are. 

[Nobodysfan]

4 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I keep forgetting that Meredith has three kids! I keep forgetting she had a third when she disappeared for six months after Derek died ana only answered Alex's calls and then returned with a baby! It's like the show kept giving her kids for a story but the problem is there are never explanations for where they are. 

The show totally does not acknowledge she is a mother, all we see are some toys or a bicycle here and there.

She has time for everything and everyone but not her kids.

[jaync]

Why didn't Riggs just tell Maggie he already has his eye on someone else? It would've been the truth, and less humiliating for Maggie than the lame ass "not ready to date" excuse.

Quote

Looking forward to Arizona's return next week. Did I miss something or they didn't even bother to explain her asbsence?

Me, too. I don't remember anyone mentioning where she was, neither. OTOH, I can't say I'm really missing Callie.

Off-topic randomness:

- The actor who plays Riggs was one of the hottie guys in Britney Spears' "Toxic" video (don't judge!). Also, I wish he'd pick an accent and stick to it.

- Justin Chambers wears a hairpiece, right?

[WhosThatGirl]

Quote

 

I don't remember anyone mentioning where she was, neither. OTOH, I can't say I'm really missing Callie.

Off-topic randomness:

- The actor who plays Riggs was one of the hottie guys in Britney Spears' "Toxic" video (don't judge!). Also, I wish he'd pick an accent and stick to it.

 

No one mentioned AZ or where she was, we will probably find out next week. Last we saw of her was her scene with Callie saying they can split Sophia part time thereby those episodes with the custody case issues were a waste of time. 

And yes, the actor needs to pick an accent. I sometimes think he's American and then he's not in the next scene. I'm confused. I thought I was the only who still had a problem with it. We talked about it a lot when he first arrived but the chatter had stopped about it and I thought maybe it was just my ears. 

[Perkie]

Quote

But Jo didn't make Alex overreact

I'm going to disagree with this, and try to explain where I'm coming from.  Let's say the proposal never happened.  It's just a regular Thursday night in the JoLex household, Jo got drunk for a different reason (her patient died) and DeLUcca brought her home and they fell on the bed and a normal, not angry for any reason Alex walked in.  I'd like to think in that circumstance, Alex wouldn't have gone off on Delucca, he would have been all, "dude what the hell" at which point one of them would have eplained what was really going on.  

But the proposal did happen and instead of telling Alex the truth in that moment she just said no without an explanation.  So he gets pissed and leaves and when he returns he's already pissed and doesn't stop to think or ask questions but simply reacts.  

Again, I'm not saying what he did was right because it was terribly terribly wrong, but I do believe that Jo's actions that night, turning down the proposal without a decent explanation is what caused Alex to react the way that he did.  Both are in the wrong, Alex obviously more so than Jo, but her hands are not  as clean as the character is trying to portray.  

[Chas411]

I don't think she's trying to come off as though she's innocent in all of this - she's just not willing to take the fall for Alex beating a guy to a pulp. He could have stopped at one punch and gone to check if she was ok. He didn't. And I'm still weary of the whole ~he thought she was being attacked theory. Nothing about that finale scene gave that impression to me. It looked like she was hooking up with DeLuca and he saw that and lashed out. I don't even buy he's that sorry - asides from the effect it's having on his career and his relationship I don't think he's actually sorry that he did that to DeLuca. He keeps saying he is but I'm not buying it..

[Pinecone]

I've mentioned this before, but I read Shonda's book. She has a chapter all about the woman who is her nanny/housekeeper/home wife/non romantic partner, who is the only reason she can have children and a career. So she knows a woman can't do it without help. I don't know why they just don't have a quick scene/explanation that Meredith pays out the nose for childcare and has an amazing person who wields the crockpot like a magic tool. Would that make Meredith unrelatable? As opposed to everything else? 

[Perkie]

I think Shonda wants me to see Jo as a victim, at least that's what I was reading out of that episode.  In a way, she is a victim in that her boyfriend came into the appartment, got mad and beat the eyeballs out of her friend.  But then again, a stick of dynamite might blow up the building but someone had to light the fuse, it didn't light itself.  

[Court]

Somewhere once there was an episode that showed Meredith interviewing nannies. I think we saw her hire one but it's never been mentioned again. 

[Pinecone]

28 minutes ago, Court said:

Somewhere once there was an episode that showed Meredith interviewing nannies. I think we saw her hire one but it's never been mentioned again. 

It was never mentioned again, and it was also before she did her 9 month vanishing act when Derek died. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I think she was going to get a nanny because Derek went to D.C and she worked too. And that was when they were fighting and doing long distance.

[Chicken Wing]

11 hours ago, Perkie said:

I think Shonda wants me to see Jo as a victim, at least that's what I was reading out of that episode.  In a way, she is a victim in that her boyfriend came into the appartment, got mad and beat the eyeballs out of her friend.  But then again, a stick of dynamite might blow up the building but someone had to light the fuse, it didn't light itself.  

I don't know if an actual lighting of a fuse is a good analogy to the "lit the fuse" metaphor. If you actually lit the fuse on a stick of dynamite, then it is, plain and simple, your fault that there was an explosion. You actually caused it, period. I don't know if that's a good comparison to the Jo/Alex/DeLuca situation. To me, simply kicking off the chain of events that ultimately led to the explosion isn't enough to say that that was the cause or that blame should be placed at that starting point. Jo rejected Alex because she's withholding a secret ... Alex got mad and left ... Jo got upset and got drunk ... DeLuca took her home and an awkward situation accidentally ensued ... Alex misinterpreted what was going on and assaulted DeLuca over it. The starting point in the chain is Jo's rejecting Alex, but there were too many links in the chain after that to make what ultimately happened at the end her responsibility.

About Meredith's kids and a possible nanny: Zap2It does a weekly episode recap as told by Meredith's imaginary nanny, a running gag poking fun at the fact that we almost never see those damn kids or get any real explanation as to where the hell they are all the time.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Coxfires]

I agree, to me, Jo lying and Alex pummeling DeLuca are two separate issues. Alex didn't attack DeLuca because Jo lied, he attacked him because he couldn't contain his rage. He could have yelled, insulted them both, left smashing the door, told them to get out, etc. but he and only he alone is responsible for going postal on DeLuca.

I also think that the decision to amp up Alex' outburst to eleven and make DeLuca's condition so dramatic was thought afterwards, just like they retconned Alex thinking Andrew assaulted Jo. I mean, they chose to have Alex enter when she was laughing after DeLuca fell on top of her. If they really wanted to go the "I thought she was being raped" route, why couldn't they have Jo cry when he entered the room (since she already was)? Then he would have seen his gf lying half naked on a bed and crying with a guy on top of her, and "voilà", no need of a retcon. I don't feel like they have managed well to transition last year's scenes into this season to fit their story.

Now, do I feel like Alex deserve what happens to him? Yes I do. But I appreciate that he doesn't try to make excuse for himself and recognizes just how much he fucked up. So I'm all about watching him get through it, atone for his mistake and grow up in the process.

On the other hand, Alex' actions don't nullify Jo's lies, particularly considering the number of occasions she could and should have disclosed the truth to him. She also has to face her own demons and come clean, not for Alex but for herself. Keeping it a secret isn't solving the fact that she is still married to this guy, and that she needs to step up, ask for divorce and part ways definitely with this part of her past, because as long as she'll put that under the rug instead of facing it, this will remain an issue for her. 

[mojito]

Quote

You can't have forgotten Christina Yang already, have you?

Have you forgotten that Christina was not a male?

[taanja]

4 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

About Meredith's kids and a possible nanny: Zap2It does a weekly episode recap as told by Meredith's imaginary nanny, a running gag poking fun at the fact that we almost never see those damn kids or get any real explanation as to where the hell they are all the time.

Thank you Chicken Wing! I just went to Zap2It and read some of those nanny diaries. Haha! I still think the writers should have thought long and hard about giving Meredith any children.

And there are 3 of them! I vaguely remember the adoption of Zola (which didn't she have spina bifida? or something? anyway she sure seems healthy huh?) but there is a boy child? When? what? and then the baby that just appeared after Derek died. I sort of remember that.

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

And there are 3 of them! I vaguely remember the adoption of Zola (which didn't she have spina bifida? or something? anyway she sure seems healthy huh?) but there is a boy child? When? what? and then the baby that just appeared after Derek died. I sort of remember that.

MerDer started the process of adopting Zola in late season 7. They had Bailey (Derek Bailey Shepherd) in the season 9 finale, and baby Ellis was born in the time jump episode after Derek's death. Meredith apparently keeps them in the coat closet.

[izabella]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

Meredith apparently keeps them in the coat closet.

I was pretty sure she permanently moved all the kids into the hospital's 24/7/365 day care center, and just visits every now and then when she remembers she has kids.  Saves on transporting them back and forth each morning and evening, and frees her up for all night tequila drinking sessions.  Granted, that means the kids never see daylight or a park, but that's not as important as Mer being able to go to "housewarming" parties on a whim when she wants to cock-block Maggie and giggle with Riggs about it.

Edited October 4, 2016 by izabella

[windsprints]

IIRC there's been specific moments that have shown Meredith does not have a nanny.  She begged people to watch her kids to run off to jump on the bed. When she had her just-had-sex meltdown Maggie took the kids to school/daycare and Amelia picked them up. I think there was some passing mention to someone tossing some food into the closet for baby Ellis. I don't think she even spoke to her kids that day since she was sitting by the campfire with Alex and never got up when they came home. I think there may also have been a line of dialog in a carpool scene about one of the sisters (not Meredith) being the one who takes the kids to school.  Maggie is going to be mighty busy now that she doesn't have Amelia living there to help with the kids.  I don't think any parent is exactly shown as being great on GA but at least we'd see Derek occasionally interacting with the kids. 

Quote

I agree, to me, Jo lying and Alex pummeling DeLuca are two separate issues. Alex didn't attack DeLuca because Jo lied, he attacked him because he couldn't contain his rage. He could have yelled, insulted them both, left smashing the door, told them to get out, etc. but he and only he alone is responsible for going postal on DeLuca.

Completely agree.

[Perkie]

Quote

 The starting point in the chain is Jo's rejecting Alex, but there were too many links in the chain after that to make what ultimately happened at the end her responsibility.

But that chain does link from point A (Jo's rejection) to point Z (Alex beating Delucca).   there aren't two chains which means she does bear some responsibility and Shonda having her walk around all doe eyed like she just doesn't understand how this could have possibly happened, like she's the victim just pisses me off.  What I got out of that episode is that Jo sees herself as the victim and that shouldn't have been the case.  The only person who is a victim is poor Deluca, who got his face smashed in for doing nothing but try to be a gentleman.  

Even the scene with Deluca and Mer in the elevator where he interprets what she's saying as a threat, to me, was wrong on Shonda's part.  I didn't see what Mer was saying as a threat (maybe I have to go back and relisten) but Deluca interpreting it that way makes me think, oh he's crazy paranoid now, and I shouldn't be thinking that.  

Maybe I'm putting too much weight on what Shonda's putting out there!!

[DearEvette]

16 minutes ago, Perkie said:

Even the scene with Deluca and Mer in the elevator where he interprets what she's saying as a threat, to me, was wrong on Shonda's part.  I didn't see what Mer was saying as a threat (maybe I have to go back and relisten) but Deluca interpreting it that way makes me think, oh he's crazy paranoid now, and I shouldn't be thinking that.  

See, I am the opposite  I saw it as intimidation the minute she started off with 'Well, you are an intern...".  Not an open bare faced threat, but I honestly got the vibe that the low level implication of one was there. Intentional or not by the writers that is how it totally felt to me.

Look at this from his perspective.  He is the victim of an assault, one that the State believes warrants a felony charge.  He is forced to work in the same place and see his assaulter every day.  The owners of the hospital are the assaulter's friends.  And one of them manages to isolate him in an elevator.  Yes, she didn't plan it and the conversation started out nice enough.  But DeLuca had made it clear he didn't want to talk about it.  And then she started the conversation up again "You are an intern and you shouldn't be spending your time in a courtroom, you should be scrubbing in surgeries.  This job is hard enough without making it harder..."  By itself that sounds like innocuous advice, but she had just tried to tell him he should forgive Alex and she is a chief of medicine herself, his superior.  It was poor form all the way around.

But I totally agree with you about Jo, though.

[Easyspreestep]

22 hours ago, Chas411 said:

I don't think she's trying to come off as though she's innocent in all of this - she's just not willing to take the fall for Alex beating a guy to a pulp. He could have stopped at one punch and gone to check if she was ok. He didn't. And I'm still weary of the whole ~he thought she was being attacked theory. Nothing about that finale scene gave that impression to me. It looked like she was hooking up with DeLuca and he saw that and lashed out. I don't even buy he's that sorry - asides from the effect it's having on his career and his relationship I don't think he's actually sorry that he did that to DeLuca. He keeps saying he is but I'm not buying it..

This doesn't work because she was in a similar situation a few seasons ago and knows first hand how things can spiral out of control.  Jo still hasn't fully explained what happened that night only that she felt threatened and nearly killed the guy.  This is why Jo acting this way is pot meet kettle.  

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

But that chain does link from point A (Jo's rejection) to point Z (Alex beating Delucca).   there aren't two chains which means she does bear some responsibility

What I'm saying is simply being part of the chain doesn't make one responsible. Similar to an example I mentioned a few days ago, if Person A gets hit by a drunk driver while out on the road, Person B is not responsible just because his finishing the last whatever is the reason Person A got in the car to go to the store in the first place. Sure, Person B may feel "responsible" in that irrational "if only I hadn't ____" sort of way, but they're not responsible. And Jo isn't responsible for this situation, either, just because the whole calamitous episode started with her lie.

Where does Jo's responsibility end, in my opinion? Alex getting the wrong idea about that awkward tumble with DeLuca. Because it's Jo's decision to get stinking drunk after their fight why DeLuca was in the apartment in the first place, and why they tripped and fell onto the bed together. And Alex may not have been so quick to get the wrong idea if Jo hadn't shut down his proposal without explanation and made him second-guess everything he thought he knew about how she felt about their relationship. But that's where her responsibility ends. Regardless of why he jumped to such conclusions, Alex is the only one to blame for the way he acted on them. Jo is not responsible for that.

Quote

Shonda having her walk around all doe eyed like she just doesn't understand how this could have possibly happened, like she's the victim just pisses me off.  What I got out of that episode is that Jo sees herself as the victim and that shouldn't have been the case.  The only person who is a victim is poor Deluca, who got his face smashed in for doing nothing but try to be a gentleman. 

I don't think Jo sees herself as a victim in all this and I didn't interpret her behavior in that episode that way. I think she was just struck by what a disaster everything became in just a span of a day, how, even though she was not responsible for DeLuca's beating, she feels at fault for the way everything went down. She feels like she ruins everything, which was why she was going to quit and just run away. She didn't look like she felt like the victim; she looked like she felt like the villain. I was with her and sympathized until she visited DeLuca and could only ask him not to tell anyone her secret. Sigh. Way to make me go back to not liking you, Wilson. A part of me kind of wants DeLuca to blurt it out in front of everyone just to hurt her, but he has no reason to do that.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[Chas411]

Quote

his is why Jo acting this way is pot meet kettle.  

Except that she's not mad at Alex for beating DeLuca up. She's not happy about that part but what she's mad at is the hurtful things he said to her and how he used her past to hurt her. I think had Alex allowed her to speak to him when she tried to after the beating then situation could be completely different but he didn't want to hear out. That's why she's mad at him. She's not suddenly developed a moral high ground on Inappropriate beatings. I think it's been made clear her issues with him aren't just because he beat up DeLuca. 

And yes I can agree that Jo telling Alex the truth could have changes the events of the finale but I'm not sure that's a definite. He still may have stormed out after finding out she's married and he still could have returned to the same drunken scene with DeLuca. It's just a could woulda shoulda situation.

Given his shitty remarks about her past though I do understand why she hasn't told him since.   

1 minute ago, Chas411 said:

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Chas411