S06.E01: The Savior

[kingshearte]

12 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Then Emma will have a brush with death and Hook will go boozing with David.

I would actually totally watch that scene.

36 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

One of the big problems for me with Emma's shaky hands issue is that it comes across as a case of the characters being written as though they had the writers' knowledge. The writers know that something is going on, but at the point when the Charmings sent Archie, there hadn't been anything that was that big of a deal. Meanwhile, all the characters seem to have forgotten what just happened to them. They're still wearing the same clothes, so these people all just finished driving back from New York. They had enough daylight after arriving back in Storybrooke for the makeout scene, and then going to find the dirigible, and then catching Hyde, which suggests that if they didn't stop somewhere along the way to finish the drive in the morning, they probably drove all night. Emma has driven to and from New York in the last day or so. That alone, forgetting all the emotional stuff about leaving Hook behind in the Underworld, Robin's death, the Hook funeral we didn't see, the shock of Hook's return, Idiot Boy running away, her parents and Hook possibly being trapped in another world by Idiot Boy's antics, etc., etc., should have been more than enough to explain the brief moment of spaciness at the dirigible that led to them sending Archie after her. Heck, if I'd made that drive, my hands would have been shaking like that, no visions needed. I'm like that after a two-hour drive. The caffeine consumption required for her to have done all that would be enough to explain the shakes. If someone zones out after spending most of the past day or so driving cross-country, you tell them to eat a meal, hydrate, and get some rest. You don't send a shrink. That was one of those pieces from the wrong box, along with pieces missing from the right box.

I guess that's why I'm a little forgiving of Emma's secret keeping. It seemed to me like everyone was overreacting, like the characters had read the scripts for upcoming episodes and knew it was something to be seriously concerned about rather than them only noticing that Emma seemed a bit out of sorts, when Emma had many, many reasons to not feel 100 percent. Instead of Hook being all "What's wrong that you're not telling me and why are you shutting me out?" it seems more realistic for him to just assume that she's overdone it lately. Because she has.

This is a good point, and I think it would have been much better presented that way. If everyone had approached it more from a "you seem tired; we should all take a break" standpoint, and she kept it to herself (briefly — like, for this episode), it wouldn't annoy me nearly so much. But she knows something more than tiredness is up, and when asked about it (even though the people asking have no reason to suspect that it's anything more than exhaustion), she's opting to lie, and it's just lazy writing. I'll be OK-ish with it if she's just taking some time to process it right now, and tells Killian (and, ideally, her parents, and Regina too, I suppose) about it next episode, but if this secret-keeping gets dragged out too long, I will continue to be highly annoyed. Failure to communicate with loved ones is one of my biggest pet peeves in fiction. I know that lots of people in real life are sucky communicators, too, but it's just such an overused device in fiction that it drives me nuts. Especially from characters who either have previously been shown to be perfectly able to communicate or have been shown to learn about trusting people (over and over and over and over...).

34 minutes ago, Curio said:

Also, I had to laugh at everyone being like, "Regina, you're not fine. I think this is about more than a feather." No shit. Her boyfriend just died like 24 hours ago, maybe it has to deal with that?

Also this. I am normally fully on board the Regina overreacts with melodrama and serious narcissism most of the time, but here, as you said, her boyfriend just died. In this context, it doesn't even matter whether or not he was also her One True Love. Even if they'd just been casually dating for a few weeks, I'd think she was entitled to a little grieving time, and this was certainly a more serious relationship than that. People acting like it never happened, or like it happened as long ago as Daniel (and btw, we all know how long she grieved for him, so expecting her to be over Robin's death in a matter of days? Right.), is just plain weird.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Once Upon A Time Wakes From Its Sleeping Curse

The new season of the fairy tale mash-up hints at more fantasy characters than ever, plus at least two scenery-chewing villains, and some familiar names with new faces. You might want to take notes.

[kili]

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As usual, the "lesson" of the episode is convoluted.  So Regina "chooses" to have faith and believe that Robin's soul was not obliterated.  Well, fine, but at what point is "hope" actually denial, since there is no evidence either way?

I was wondering if the feather was evidence.  It popped up when she had faith that Robin still existed. Is it the same feather that Zelena lost? Or is it a new one? If it is a new one, either the propmaster messed up or it is evidence that he still exists. Even if it is the same one, maybe he made it appear.

Instead of being obliterated, maybe Robin is all-around. That's why the locator spell failed - he's right there.  Maybe he's hanging around waiting for the kid from the Sixth Sense to finish his business or maybe he just needs to be made corporeal again.

Of course, if he still exists, that means that Hades does too so the baby selling deal is still on - but if A&E doesn't want to deal with that, they'll either hope we forget too or say that because he was a god - something different happened to him than to Robin (Magic!).

Belle...honey...when a fetus is better able to size up the situation with your husband than you are, maybe it's time to stop being such a sucker. Even in her dreams, Rumple is unable to wake her with a true love kiss, but some random guy she has never met before who claims he is her son can. BTW, even if Morpheus is lying, he looks more like Rumple's son than Neal ever did. I wonder if Belle is going to call him Morpheus?

I'm suspicious of every tale that Hyde tells and every person he sends people to go talk to. I'm thinking he has an agenda.

I thought Regina split her evil self off from her good self. Why does her good self act a lot like the combined self? Shouldn't she be more like Amy Adams character from "Enchanted"? Full of hope and goodness and second chances for everybody? Why is she throwing a moping fit about a missing feather and kicking her sister out of the house?  If I didn't know better, I'd think Zelena had split from her evil self because she was much less evilly this episode than her sister and she too just lost her True Love. Dr. Jeckyll is a goody-two-shoes while Hyde is all evil. Why is the Evil Queen evil and Regina still bitter and wanting revenge? Regina may not need to be totally sunshine and rainbows, but she needs to be different than last year's Regina.

When all those torches lit up...it reminded me of the first major encounter the Losties had with The Others (when The Others were still pretending to be primitive and the core group went looking for Michael who went off looking for Walt).

[Shanna Marie]

48 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

If everyone had approached it more from a "you seem tired; we should all take a break" standpoint, and she kept it to herself (briefly — like, for this episode), it wouldn't annoy me nearly so much. But she knows something more than tiredness is up, and when asked about it (even though the people asking have no reason to suspect that it's anything more than exhaustion), she's opting to lie, and it's just lazy writing.

Yeah, this way, it's manufactured drama rather than organic. It would have worked a lot better in this episode if we'd just seen Emma wrestling with the fact that there was something weird while everyone else just figures she's tired and needs to take a break. It gets crazy when everyone jumps straight to "OMG, something's wrong with Emma!!!!!" and sends shrinks to talk to her or presses her about what's wrong, which then leads to her having to outright lie rather than just hide things. I'd be okay with her not saying anything about having strange flashes of images until she had time to figure out what was up. I'm less okay with her outright lying when asked about something being wrong, and even less okay with her telling Hook that she talked it out with Archie. Really, that's a dumb lie that may come back to bite her, when she had the very easy and obvious out of saying she was just tired and feels better after getting a nap. But all of it was entirely unnecessary when there were very obvious other possible explanations for the way Emma was acting. Really, when someone who's gone through what she has in just the past couple of days pauses and wavers for a few seconds, why would they all immediately assume that there's something seriously wrong and start pressing her for an explanation?

54 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

I am normally fully on board the Regina overreacts with melodrama and serious narcissism most of the time, but here, as you said, her boyfriend just died.

This is another case of the characters forgetting what just happened. I guess they didn't watch the recap special, so the events of the past couple of days totally slipped their mind. Or there was some sort of time lag, so they feel like four months have passed, even though it's only been a few days. So there should have been more understanding rather than "gee, what's wrong with you?" Maybe the reactions to Emma and Regina should have been switched. However, I still don't think that a Regina with all the dark and negative parts of herself removed would be doing the melodrama and serious narcissism routine, no matter how valid the cause. A Regina with the part of herself that's been a major driving force in her life removed should be noticeably different from regular Regina. This is like Folger's Crystals Regina -- we've secretly removed all the darkness, evil, and badness from Regina. Let's see if anyone notices.

[Writing Wrongs]

Robert Carlyle's wig was distracting.

[Curio]

Were we supposed to interpret Regina's shifty eyes after Snow mentioned her father's death as a sign that Regina has been keeping her involvement in that a secret this whole time, or just that she felt remorse for killing him? In an episode all about keeping secrets, you'd hope it's the former. (And then we can have an epic scene later on where that information gets revealed along with the Graham reveal.) But because TS;TW, it's probably the latter.

Edit: Apparently, Snow knows Regina killed her father. Did this happen off screen?

Edited September 30, 2016 by Curio

[iMonrey]

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 they promoted this season by doing a ton of interviews in which they talked about how bad Regina's luck is and how such awful things always happen to her.

I saw them on the one-hour special, and they said something similar which made me go "WTF?" How can anyone view Regina as a victim? I suppose we're all supposed to forget she murdered Graham back in Season 1, and that wasn't when she was the Evil Queen, it was when she was Mayor Regina. I'm sick of this nonsense that there are two different people as though she were possessed or something.

And if we're literally going to divest Regina from the Evil Queen persona, then shouldn't only one of them have magic? It was the Evil Queen who learned magic - dark magic at that - not Regina. So if they're two different people now only the Evil Queen should be able to use it.

And while we're talking about magic, how convenient that the latest villain du jour just happens to be impervious to both Emma and Regina's magic. Why? No other reason beyond contrivance. Mr. Hyde is not a fairy tale character with magic powers, he's just the manifestation of Dr. Jekyll's dark side. There's no particular reason why he should be immune to magic powers except that it services the plot.

I'd like to know what it's supposed to accomplish, anyway, when Emma and Regina just hold up their hands and fling brightly-colored mojo waves at various people and objects. Was Hyde supposed to . . . explode? Disappear? Drop dead? Turn green? Maybe the reason nothing happened is that they don't know what they're doing. Maybe they should try using a more specific potion, spell or curse on him.

Bright side, Morpheus did actually look like he could be Robert Carlyle's son, so good job on casting there.

[Mrs. DuRona]

I kinda wish they hadn't have done anything with Aladdin at the beginning.  It would have brought *some* suspense to the show, and there wasn't any kind of bookend with it at the end, either.  

Not too bad for me, I am totally over the Rumple/Belle drama.  I really wish they hadn't have rushed Regina & Zelena.  I would have loved a few "Odd Couple" episodes with them...

[Anakerie]

If Morph is indeed Baby Dumbbell, I can understand why he doesn't want his parents to get back together. He already had the late Douchefire as a brother:  the poor boy has to be terrified of any additional spawn Rumple might create with Belle. He plans on making damn sure he's an only child. 

[KingOfHearts]

Everyone has done such a great job of outlining why this episode sucks. There's really not much else to say about it. I had a viewing party of it with a couple casual watchers, and then a couple of others like me who will stay on the boat until it sinks. No one was really impressed with it. The casuals had no idea what was going on (and one of them did see all 5 seasons), and the fans recognized how little sense the writing made. Me, being from this board, was over-analyzing the crap out of everything and comparing it against the writers' meta. From what I can tell, the episode consisted of random scenes being thrown at you. The focus wasn't about the characters, but fifty billion plot threads being shoved in your face. 

The Regina/Zelena stuff was the highlight for me. That was the only place where any breathing was involved. Hyde's dynamic with Emma was great, but he's just sort of there to give exposition and chew scenery. It was a hero talking to a villain, not a person talking to a person. The "prison" similarity couldn't add the depth it wanted to.

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Bright side, Morpheus did actually look like he could be Robert Carlyle's son, so good job on casting there.

Much better than Neal since the casting department got to cast him. A&E cast MRJ, and it shows.

Edited September 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[iMonrey]

I'm pretty much resolved to "stay on the boat until it sinks" as well. But I think the boat could be sinking faster than Kitsis and Horowitz seem to think. They are carrying on as though the show could run indefinitely, like Grey's Anatomy. This premier was down in the ratings vs. the premier last year and down vs. its average last season. That's not good. It only got a 1.2 in the 18-49 demo, and that's not good either. 3.89 million total viewers isn't good for a Sunday night show either: consider that Grey's Anatomy gets about 8.59 million viewers and a 2.4 in the 18-49 demo, and that's on a Thursday. 

I really want the writers to start moving toward some sort of an end game here because it's clear that their schtick is getting stale and viewers are tuning out. They can't just keep coming up with new villains to fight and new reasons to keep couples apart every season and expect viewers to stick around forever. You can only take so much of that.

[Randomosity]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I really want the writers to start moving toward some sort of an end game here because it's clear that their schtick is getting stale and viewers are tuning out. They can't just keep coming up with new villains to fight and new reasons to keep couples apart every season and expect viewers to stick around forever. You can only take so much of that.

So true. In many ways, there is just too much happening, and what makes it awful is that so many of those happenings are nonsensical, rehashes of things we've already done, or completely at odds with previous events. In other shows I've been a fan of (ER, Gilmore Girls, as two examples), even with a lot of characters, there was still some semblance of forward motion and logical progression of events. No show is perfect, of course, and they had their issues as well, but on the whole, it made things a lot more enjoyable and easier to keep track of, honestly.

With OUAT, I'm not quite as die-hard as some people here, but I do watch every week and own all the DVD sets. But so. much. has. freaking. happened. I cannot recall many things that have gone on in the series simply because they seem so random. So much with OUAT is non-linear, time-wise and plot-wise and just about every other -wise. And it's not even the same season to season. Early on, much of it seemed to try to be Law and Order-style, with many individually packaged episodes (for various character backstories a la Cinderella), but then later we got into the grand sweeping season arcs a la Frozen. None of it makes sense! I freely admit that I'm mostly still here for Captain Swan and Zelena (I love me some Wizard of Oz). I was actually losing interest at the start of the Neverland arc, but sexual tension between the right couple goes a long way for keeping me interested. So Emma and Hook started dancing around each other at just the right time or I may have stopped watching a while back.

I guess the metaphor that seems most fitting would be going on a road trip as a passenger. Maybe you get in the car in Boston, expecting to go see some scenery in Maine. Suddenly you're in Dallas, then Detroit, then Seattle, then Miami, then Salt Lake City, with even more smaller detours along the routes between those places. You can't remember all the crap that you're seeing, because you're so confused about where you're going. And then the driver admits they were never trying to get anywhere specific in the first place.

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Anakerie said:

If Morph is indeed Baby Dumbbell, I can understand why he doesn't want his parents to get back together.

I didn't get the impression that Baby Damien really was Morpheus or will become Morpheus, or anything like that. It sounded more like Baby Damien got the magic sand sprinkled on him when it hit Belle, so he was also walking in Belle's dreams, and due to either the magic sand or being already linked to Belle (don't ask me, I'm not writing this show, and don't ask the writers because I'm sure they didn't really work it out in detail), he had awareness of Belle's memories. So he took the dream form of Morpheus to mess with his father and test his mother. I'm inclined to believe that this part of the episode was on the level because I can't think of any reason for the real Morpheus to give a damn whether or not Belle woke up or stayed with or left Rumple. Then again, it is this show ...

[iMonrey]

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In many ways, there is just too much happening, and what makes it awful is that so many of those happenings are nonsensical, rehashes of things we've already done, or completely at odds with previous events. 

Yeah and in the one-hour preview special, Kitsis and Horowitz rhetorically asked the audience if they wanted to watch the characters go to the DMV (as opposed to all the exciting nonsense they come up with for them every week), and you know what? I think that would actually make for a pleasant change of pace, assuming there is a DMV in Storybrooke. But honestly - one of my biggest gripes about this show is that the characters never get a chance to take a break and breathe. They're running from one crisis to another without any chance to process in between. The show sacrifices relationships at the alter of action.

Would it have killed them to just let Emma and Hook enjoy one single episode without having to run off and fight villains? Hyde, Evil Queen and all could have been maneuvering in the background, setting up the chess pieces while the Charmings remained oblivious and tried to put the pieces of their lives back together. I don't know why they had to jump right back into another crisis. Again.

Edited September 26, 2016 by iMonrey

[KingOfHearts]

I would have been more interested in the Morpheus stuff if it were an episode in the middle of the season. It really belonged in a Rumpbelle centric. Whenever the episode cut to it, we were taking a break from the premiere to focus on a completely unrelated story. Also, I probably would be cheering Damien on if Belle wasn't so stupid. She's totally going to ignore his advice and be conflicted about Rumple later. He wasn't the first person who cared about Belle to tell her to stay away from the imp. 

(We miss you, Mirror!Belle.)

Edited September 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

3 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

They're running from one crisis to another without any chance to process in between. The show sacrifices relationships at the alter of action.

Would you believe that the writer's favorite moments are "the moments where it's just quiet between two characters and you get to see the evolution of them"? 

[Randomosity]

2 minutes ago, Curio said:

Would you believe that the writer's favorite moments are "the moments where it's just quiet between two characters and you get to see the evolution of them"? 

This may be true, if you narrow down the 'characters' to Regina...

[Mathius]

3 minutes ago, Curio said:

Would you believe that the writer's favorite moments are "the moments where it's just quiet between two characters and you get to see the evolution of them"? 

But only if one of those characters is Regina, since she tends to be the only one allowed such moments.

[Curio]

@Randomosity @Mathius Jinx...

But you guys aren't too far off, at least if you look at recent episodes. The biggest emotional one-on-one conversations in the Season 5 finale and this premiere both centered around Regina.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

It's difficult for me to like Emma right now. Her almighty walls, constant angst and lying are getting grating. Other people's safety are consistently put on the line for her. (Whether by choice or not.) If she doesn't want to lose her boyfriend, Hook has to become a monster. If she wants to go to the Underworld, everyone else is going too. If she knows there's a threat coming to town with the capability of killing her, everyone else is left in the dark. Things bend around her angst so much that characters are forced to go OOC. I understand Emma is a main character and all that, but if you have to start twisting things into pretzels to make the universe rotate around her issues, then that's not justice for anyone.

Regina has the exact same problem, by the way. Hers has just been around for longer and shown more often.

Edited September 26, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

46 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I didn't get the impression that Baby Damien really was Morpheus or will become Morpheus, or anything like that. It sounded more like Baby Damien got the magic sand sprinkled on him when it hit Belle, so he was also walking in Belle's dreams, and due to either the magic sand or being already linked to Belle (don't ask me, I'm not writing this show, and don't ask the writers because I'm sure they didn't really work it out in detail), he had awareness of Belle's memories. So he took the dream form of Morpheus to mess with his father and test his mother. I'm inclined to believe that this part of the episode was on the level because I can't think of any reason for the real Morpheus to give a damn whether or not Belle woke up or stayed with or left Rumple. Then again, it is this show ...

Morpheus: When you sprinkled that sand onto Belle, you sprinkled it onto me, too. This isn't just Belle's dreamworld. It's mine. And I'm here to warn you... Do not let him destroy us, like he did his last family.

Belle: Our son... h-he was testing me... playing the part of Morpheus to see if I'd do right by him.

So basically yeah. The baby isn't Morpheus, but just the baby testing his mother. Which is so warped. Baby and Belle would rather be in the red room than be with Rumple.

[BoPeeps]

Oi.

Getting quite stale, sadly.  But not surprisingly.  They've lost direction and it shows in every scene.  Retreads all over the place.  Disjointed and at the same time wildly hurried dialogue and action.  They've always written like they have massive ADD, it's just who they are.  Seemed worse last night.  Perhaps they will focus on something that isn't a warmed over story line in the coming weeks.  But honestly, they already have too many plot tangents, new characters and spaced out wacko timing on everything.  Premiere episodes tend to be a bit tentative anyway and the actors a little out of it.

They've taken an enormous step backward with Emma. Very disappointing and unfair to her character and Morrison.  And they are doing the same thing with Hook.  Love his face, still...adore his voice, but give him something interesting to say, please.  This outing was total milquetoast.  I feel the writers have no clue now how to present an interesting adventure for those two and that is a waste of potential fun, strength and sass. 

Regina and Zelena...ZZZzzzz. Regina and Snow...ZZZzzz. They are getting very very sloppy with character growth.  I will always love Rumple/Gold but, gees. DULL.  Belle- Samo samo drivel. There is a lot to blame for the lackluster presentation.  Time slot, parent company control, cowardly creators.  I keep thinking that the best thing would be for them to cancel the show, but have Netflix buy it up, give it fabulous writers, keep the costuming, actors and run with it in an adult setting, because the premise is STILL potentially kick ass. 

CANNOT. STAND.  HYDE. GAWD.  And can he please be the victim of a silencing spell?

Cool things?

I like Jafar. Always have appreciated that actor since his scrumptious desert rat run in The Mummy. Got a kick out of the flying carpet, and the flying dirigible! Even Henry had a quick moment of sneering talent. (did you blink and miss it?) "Morpheus"tiltskin is a cutie.  Pongo is a breath of fresh air.

We'll see. I'm still hanging in there.

[Mrs. de Winter]

Did we get - or have we gotten - an explanation for why Hyde can't be stopped by magic?  Or for how he is all knowing and all seeing?  He seems ridiculously powerful for just being Hyde.

After this episode and the new reveal about the Savior I have to wonder why exactly are the ex-villains so interested in working hard to be good.  Because they want the happy endings the heroes get?   I think they might want to do the math on that one again.

Rumple and Belle's kid is doomed to a life of disappointment isn't he.  He already knows he lost the lottery with dad and while Belle may have listen for now it is only a matter of time before she gives in. 

[Tiger]

Last night I thought I really enjoyed the episode, but after reading everyone's comments I am wondering if I only enjoyed it because I wasnt telling multiple characters to "shut the fuck up" the way I have every single episode starting with the beginning of the Mean Girls of bitchyness arc.  

[ParadoxLost]

Reflecting on it, I think the only* real problem with the episode was the focus or pacing of the Snowing and Captain Swan parts.

I think it would have worked better if they turned the search for the dirigible passengers into a Snowing/ Captain Swan adventure and then made it a race against Hyde who was doing the same for devious/unknown purposes.

They need to learn that the main characters are going to be around all season.  They don't need to spell everything out in one episode.  Its like they thought they needed it to be clear what Emma's arc would be and the mystery of which untold stories would be told is the hook to bring viewers back.

I think it would have worked better if we got to see some of the ancillary untold story characters.  Dress an extra up in a costume for a story you don't intend to tell if you can't pay the guest star for cripes sake. 

Only hint at what is going on with Emma.  It saves frustration at backsliding and character isolation by building it in away over time that makes narrative sense.  Plus you can delay throwing Hyde in prison until the end.  Plus viewers like figuring stuff out over being spoon fed stupid.   They should have done two Aladdin 'many years ago' so they could have 'revealed' that Emma has a Savior 'sickness' or something instead of an inevitable death  that she totally believes instantaneously despite the unreliable sources of information.  Emma's lie detector isn't reliable enough any more to sell it.

*I've retconned in my head that Regina's dark magic was removed instead of her darkness to explain why she is no different sans Evil Queen.

[Tiger]

4 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

Wasn't Emilie wearing one too? I know at ComiCon her hair was blonde, as it has been in all her twitter photos. I was distracted by her makeup. Usually they have it so dark. Her eye makeup was actually light and soft. But it took me a few minutes to figure out what was different.

It also looked like Jen was wearing either extensions or a fake ponytail.   

It seems like no one except Colin and Josh are ever allowed to have different hair on screen.  

[YaddaYadda]

The problem with the pacing yesterday was that they reshot scenes.

I think the scene in the CS house wasn't even planned originally. Everyone, including Archie were in front of Granny's looking up at the sky, probably when the dirigible was passing above them. All the kept from taping that day in Steveston was Emma's sword fight and Emma's getting out of Granny's.

The scene in the woods with Hyde was filmed like 2 weeks ago.

There was a scene filmed inside Gold's shop with Emma/Hook/David which I assumed was them looking for a wand like the one from the Land of Untold Stories.

Hyde is in his cell and David is telling Snow that they can't find Hyde and his friends. It's like they gave the guy 2 lines the entire episode and they managed to get continuity wrong.

I thought that scene in front of the Town Hall was awkward as hell. The whole set up was unbelievably stupid, the way it was shot was really bad as well. And this is the same director who did 5x08.  

[Curio]

I'd be curious to see how different the original script for this episode was compared to what we got on screen. From the spoiler photos, it seems like a lot of scenes either had to be reshot or were cut completely. I know that's normal for all television episodes to cut scenes here or there, but it seemed like there were more scenes than usual for this premiere.

Who's the poster who does the thematic word count for each episode? I'm thinking this arc we need to count the amount of times a character corrects themselves when they say "Regina" instead of "The Evil Queen" or vice versa. Either that, or count the amount of times "Savior," "Happiness," or "Untold" are said.

[Arnella]

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even if Morpheus is lying, he looks more like Rumple's son than Neal ever did. I wonder if Belle is going to call him Morpheus?

Absolutely!  I totally bought it unlike the actor who played Neal who was wrong on every level.  At least young Bae looked like Milla.

I agree that Snow is the worst mother!  I don't even like JMo but I want to give Emma a hug and say "tell me all about it Sweetums".

Oded Fehr... SO hot!  I like Naveen Andrews but never watched the Wonderland series (A&E is never suckering me into watching anything else of their's ever again).

[Mari]

43 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

And then I have to make my obligatory Snow is a bad mother observation. I get that the show wants us to see Regina as needing a cheerleader. But Snow was watching over Killian's shoulder as Emma had a shaking episode. She should have realized there was a problem. Couldn't one of the Snow/Regina scenes been traded for a mother daughter talk? 

Snow did pay attention.  She then sent Archie to go and talk to Emma--after all, if Snow has to chose between Regina and Emma, we all know who she's going to pick.

[RadioGirl27]

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I think the scene in the CS house wasn't even planned originally.

I'm pretty sure that scene was A&E mocking the CS fans that keep asking about "coffee". 

[tribeca]

I said out loud while watching "Belle if you wake up please dump his ...."   So I was thrilled with Belle's son test.  

  Unlike most here I enjoyed last night show  

[Curio]

1 minute ago, tribeca said:

I said out loud while watching "Belle if you wake up please dump his ...."   So I was thrilled with Belle's son test.  

Belle is by far the MVP of the episode. And if Belle is the MVP, you know there's story issues afoot.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

1 minute ago, Curio said:

Belle is by far the MVP of the episode.

Nah, that title goes to Baby Damien, who as a fetus is smarter than his mother.

You know, they could have done the Emma withholding info from Hook story in a way that made it about the development of their relationship. Two very independent people who are used to being on their own are going to have some struggles as they come together as a couple. She's used to having to look out for herself, without anyone to lean on, and without having to worry about looking out for anyone else. It's been a very long time since he had anyone looking out for him, and he's used to being responsible for a crew, where it could have been a life or death matter if there was information he didn't have when making decisions. That's going to create some clashes, where both of them will instinctively make decisions for themselves but he'll also expect to get full information and consider it his responsibility to take care of the people around him. That's going to make things a little bumpy as she gets used to the idea that she can count on him and that he won't consider her a burden if she has problems (an attitude she probably learned as a foster kid -- the kids with problems get passed on to other homes) and he gets used to the idea that he doesn't always have to be the strong one. Unfortunately, they're not playing it that way, instead going with the retread of the walls. There also doesn't seem to be any story reason to withhold the info, other than drama later when the truth inevitably comes out, since I can't imagine where Hook knowing any of this would change anything. He might say that he's not going to let her die, but what can he really do about it?

30 minutes ago, Tiger said:

It seems like no one except Colin and Josh are ever allowed to have different hair on screen.

In Colin's case, it's compensation for having to wear the same clothes all the time. But it does seem like going to the barber is foreplay for Hook, since he apparently stopped to get a haircut between the "I love you" and kiss at the end of last season and them going home to make out in this episode. It was a pretty drastic haircut. If Colin didn't need the longer hair during the summer for a role, his return from being dead would have been a good time to get rid of the floppy Dark One/Death Angst Hair so they didn't have the drastic haircut when the premiere picked up immediately after the finale.

[Camera One]

Despite this episode being so "busy", it was still filled with pointless time wasters.  I was thinking in particular about the Orderly's Baton.  What was the point of having Jekyll find it off-screen and repair it, so they could subdue Hyde?  Why not just have Emma and Regina subdue him earlier, since there was no reason why he was immune to their magic anyway.  

While the Morpheus twist was one of the few good points of the episode, did Belle really need another reason to dump Rumple's ass?  His cavalier attitude in the Underworld surely should have done the trick, no?  

I was a little confused by Rumple "recreating" when he and Belle fall in love.  Didn't they do the Beauty and the Beast dance with the yellow dress AFTER they got married?  Shouldn't he have gotten her to dust the top of the curtains and then catch her when she fell? (excuse me while I go swoon)

So Hyde knew about the Temple of Morpheus and Mr-Know-It-All-Stiltskin didn't?  

Edited September 27, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

9 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Nah, that title goes to Baby Damien, who as a fetus is smarter than his mother.

I was only thinking of the regular cast members, but yeah, the MVP probably has to go to a totally new guest character we've never met before. (I don't know what to call him, but I guess I'll jump on the Baby Damien train since he isn't technically named yet. It's kind of hilarious that Snow and Charming already stole the name Neal, so Rumple can't even name his own kid after his dead son. He could always go with Bae, but then you've got a Neal and a Bae running around at the same time, and that might be too confusing even for this show.)

Edited September 27, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

While the Morpheus twist was one of the few good points of the episode, did Belle really need another reason to dump Rumple's ass?  His cavalier attitude in the Underworld surely should have done the trick, no?  

Belle is dumb. It didn't matter who told her to stay away from Rumple. She likes being the mouse to his cat. Because she "listened" to Damien, she got to walk to Storybrooke feeling like she was on the moral high ground. She gets to feel better about herself while Rumple tags behind. She knows he's not going anywhere.

Edited September 27, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[MadyGirl1987]

The best scene for me was Belle getting put straight by her son and telling Rumple off. I actually fist-pumped at that part. Here's hoping she sticks to her conviction. 

Did anyone else catch Zelena's quip about thinking it would take weeks to catch Hyde with a bunch of twists along the way? Total in joke about how formulaic the season arcs can get...

Part of me feels certain Emma won't die. That would be show-ruiningly bad. How depressing to have the arguably main(even though she isn't treated like it) character go through so much just to die... That would be HIMYM finale levels of awful. Would definitely color reruns and make for some depressing new episodes if it wasn't the show finale. I think it's more likely that Emma dies but is Deus ex machinaed back to life somehow. That said, these writers did give us the Lost finale(never watched Lost but know the finales reputation) so that kinda scares me. What's the betting Emma dying would be used to prop up Regina somehow, either through Regina angst or some saviour "passing of the torch." Yuck.

[toodles]

I was half listening to the pre-show, but my ears perked up when they talked about going to the DMV.  Hell yes I want to see whole famn damliy go to the DMV.  I want to see the full on Evil Queen, Rumple, Red Riding Hood, Prince Charming, the green Wicked Witch of the West, captain hook  and Queen Snow White take Henry to get his driver's license.

Then they all need to pick up a prescription at cvs, stop and get some gas, and have some lunch at McDonalds.  All together.  And hook needs to pay with his debit card.  He needs to punch the pin number in with his hook hand.

I would so watch this.  I think that would be way more interesting than this episode.

[Camera One]

Did anyone else catch Zelena's quip about thinking it would take weeks to catch Hyde with a bunch of twists along the way? Total in joke about how formulaic the season arcs can get...

I'm surprised they dared to make such a joke because the alternative that we saw in this episode was just as lame, if not moreso.  Hyde being loose was one of the major cliffhangers, and catching him with the Orderly Baton was like an afterthought.

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

That said, these writers did give us the Lost finale(never watched Lost but know the finales reputation) so that kinda scares me.

Whether you loved or hated LOST, Adam and Eddy were very low in the LOST writers' totem pole. Besides, they're not the kind of writers to take the risk of killing off their main character. 

15 minutes ago, toodles said:

I was half listening to the pre-show, but my ears perked up when they talked about going to the DMV.  Hell yes I want to see whole famn damliy go to the DMV.  

Zootopia did a very funny DMV scene. So, Eddy's joke about going to the DMV fell flat for me.

[MadyGirl1987]

4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Whether you loved or hated LOST, Adam and Eddy were very low in the LOST writers' totem pole. Besides, they're not the kind of writers to take the risk of killing off their main character. 

Really? Didn't realize that... Thought they were bosses there...

Edited September 27, 2016 by MadyGirl1987

[Shanna Marie]

20 minutes ago, toodles said:

Hell yes I want to see whole famn damliy go to the DMV.  I want to see the full on Evil Queen, Rumple, Red Riding Hood, Prince Charming, the green Wicked Witch of the West, captain hook  and Queen Snow White take Henry to get his driver's license.

The heck with Henry. I want to see Hook learning to drive Emma's Bug, using his hook to hold the steering wheel when he shifts gears, and then I want to see him take his written test and ace it, with much snark about how simple it is and how the test doesn't take into account realistic situations, but then fail the driving test because he loses his temper at other drivers and the testing officer.

I want to see fairy tale characters at the DMV, at the supermarket (what do they think of just buying things like bread that they're used to making for themselves?), at the post office (why not just send a message on a bird?), watching TV, making their own TV news shows and commercials, etc.

[Camera One]

Why go to the DMV when they can look around on the forest floor for loose batons, get worked up over a feather, or stare at their trembling hand?

[toodles]

They need to take sneezy and grumpy with them to the DMV too.  I would love to see them waiting in four different lines before you get to the real line.  At least that's how my DMV works.  I go full on Evil Queen when I go to the DMV.

My final DMV post.

[InsertWordHere]

6 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I would have been more interested in the Morpheus stuff if it were an episode in the middle of the season. It really belonged in a Rumpbelle centric. Whenever the episode cut to it, we were taking a break from the premiere to focus on a completely unrelated story

If we didn't have the separate Rumbelle arc we would have probably gotten some Untold Stories flashbacks though. I would much rather have a B plot in a separate land featuring regular cast members.

4 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Where did Hook's sword come from? We see them making out on the couch and then they are running into the woods.

There's a Hook-type innuendo I'm really struggling not to type right now.

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

So Hyde knew about the Temple of Morpheus and Mr-Know-It-All-Stiltskin didn't?  

And from this can we infer that the Temple is only in the Land of Untold Stories and not in the Enchanted Forest? 

[Randomosity]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

It also looked like Jen was wearing either extensions or a fake ponytail.  

You mean the little spiky/poofy bits sticking out close to the ponytail holder? I'm pretty sure that's just her layers/long side-bangs things just being the wrong length for where that ponytail was situated. A little longer and they'd have smoothed into the rest of the ponytail. New layers can be awkward.

[kili]

Quote

Given how we've been told that Saviors are their own worst enemy, I wouldn't be surprised if Emma isn't fighting herself the same way David was in 3B.

It looks like she is fighting a jawa. He probably tried to sell her a droid with a bad motivator.

[Dianthus]

Not that I am actually defending any of this "Thanks for persecuting me and my loved ones" crap from Snow to Regina, but there is this: 

[Camera One]

For my own sanity, I'm going to assume Emma and Snow made a deal to babysit the volatile Regina to make sure there weren't any unexpected ill effects of the half-split, and Snow took the first babysitting shift.  I don't know if Ginny's acting was off, or it was intentional, but she sounded totally insincere when she asked how Regina was doing in their first conversation.  And let's say Snow and Emma had to draw straws since they both wanted to hand out blankets at the end.