Watch A Clip From Dr. Phil's Interview With Burke Ramsey

[Christi]

PineappleGate is very interesting....also that she suffered tramatic head injury 3 hours before the garot was put on her.  Wierd

Burke NEVER asked what happened to her until they got to their friend's house.  Weird

Burke never left his room, even when mom AND police came in separately with flashlights. Weird

Burke's smile. Uber creepy Weird.

Mom didnt hang up the phone correctly during the 911 call, she though it ended and the recording was analyzed to have 3 distinct voices on the recording, tho Patsy swears there were only 2...they believe its Burke saying "what did u find".

Ransom note had a first draft written and found at the house, who has time for that? Weird

Burke said he was in bed all night, then admits to using a flashlight downstairs in the middle of the night to play with a Christmas toy..Coincidence? 

At first they thought JonB had markings on her body from a stun gun, but now they say that the markings could have come from the track of a train set...which Burke got for Christmas that day.  Coincidence?

Me? I think Burke did it, maybe by accident, maybe not.  The Rents had a choice...lose one kid or 2. Patsy wrote the note...she was the only one tested that they could not rule out.

[Christi]

For info in the JFK murder, mentioned earlier, google Judith Vary Baker and Dr. Mary's Monkey.

Im not a conspiracy theorist, but this information is Crazy!  A ton of detail and evidence...

Whoa 

[Guest]

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I am very curious about what his life is like now. Does he have a job? Doing what? What are his living circumstances? Does he have a gf/bf?

These are all excellent, interesting questions thus ensuring that Dr Phil will ask none of them. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Guest

[kat165]

Misfit, that's funny. You're probably right! We still have part 3 to see (why are they airing it next wk?) so maybe...I'm not a Phil watcher so I don't know if he's generally a crappy interviewer but I do hope we get some sort of update on Burke's present life situation.

It always cracks me up that ALL these crime interviewers think they're asking the tough questions, especially the "did you do it?" one like they actually expect to get an answer. "Yes, I did it. I beat the crap out of her and slit her throat and I'm not sorry" but none of the questioned ever do.

Edited September 14, 2016 by kat165

[jumper sage]

Burke and his smirk.  Hey that rhymes.  I would be smirking too if I had to do hours and hours with a blowhard like Dr. Phil.  I could just hear him thinking, "Is this guy for real?".

Stats from the CDC show that children at those ages do not kill siblings, outside of guns in the home.  Every investigator on all sides, some that said parents did it or some that said outsider did it..., all agree Burke did not do it.

I have no idea why Burke or his father would still do interviews.  The original police screwed the investigation up from the get go.

[beesknees]

While I don't think Burke (or the parents for that matter) killed JonBenet (and I'm probably in the minority here) I was freakin' creeped out by Burke's perma-smile to the point where I was actually talking to the TV.   I am also wondering why Dr. Phil hasn't suggested Burke take a polygraph test "to clear himself" because as we all know Dr. Phil has JACK TREMARCO, the finest ex-FBI polygrapher in the free world on his staff!

The only reason I can fathom Burke and his father gave interviews recently is because they are innocent, maintain that, and will probably be done giving interviews after this 20th anniversary.  Didn't Mr. Ramsey say something to that effect?  

I could not imagine in a million years that if I was suspected of murdering some one (let alone a family member) and was truly innocent how I would get through life and some how try to put the pieces back together with everyone suspecting me/unjustly judging me for the rest of my days.  Seriously, though.  I would probably go insane or commit suicide.  I don't think I could live under that black cloud.

Burke is young.  I wonder what he does for a living (job-wise).  Does he have a significant other?  How does he cope emotionally with so many suspecting him of killing his only sibling.  Horrible cross to bear if one is innocent.  I am interested in Burke's personal back story.  If it was me I would probably change my name and try to move out of the country (but in this day/age it probably wouldn't help anyway).

Edited September 14, 2016 by beesknees

[GreyBunny]

On 9/12/2016 at 3:36 PM, RedheadZombie said:

There's also the marks on two separate parts of her body that look to be from a taser.  Why would her parents use one?  How would Burke know how to get one? 

Last I heard the stun gun/taser idea was ruled out.

-

Whether the Ramsays were involved or not I remember back then John and Patsy rubbed me the wrong way.  Watching John's interview now the one big conclusion I draw from this case is that John is an arrogant, imperious asshole.  One of those "how DARE anyone question me!" types.  Total jerk.

Edited September 14, 2016 by GreyBunny

[Lamima]

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

These are all excellent, interesting questions thus ensuring that Dr Phil will ask none of them. 

Dr Phill mentioned that he works from home (I think he said in IT) and described him as a bit of a recluse (in his own words)...not sure if it was on the show or on an interview I saw Dr Phill do (on the Today show I think...to promote the 3 part show with Burke).

He is also married. I saw that in the news when he married a few years ago. Pretty blonde girl.

2 things that are new to the story: that Burke snuck down to play with toys when everyone was asleep...and...that he and his dad used the flashlight that night.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Lamima

[Cementhead]

28 minutes ago, Lamima said:

2 things that are new to the story: that Burke snuck down to play with toys when everyone was asleep...and...that he and his dad used the flashlight that night.

Yes!  Because please correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Dateline special that just ran last week (and perhaps even on the special that ran on A&E the other night), it was said that neither the Ramseys nor the police claimed to know the origin of the flashlight.  The Ramseys said it wasn't theirs.  Same with the Police.  Which of course, helped to further 'the intruder' theory.  Because I immediately said to myself -- well, there's some more proof right there -- it had to be an intruder because that wasn't the Ramseys' flashlight!  And then this new information /\ /\ /\ comes out.  Hmmm.  What to do with it?  What to make of it?

Edited September 14, 2016 by Cementhead

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

 

PineappleGate is very interesting....also that she suffered tramatic head injury 3 hours before the garot was put on her.  Wierd

Burke NEVER asked what happened to her until they got to their friend's house.  Weird

Burke never left his room, even when mom AND police came in separately with flashlights. Weird

Burke's smile. Uber creepy Weird.

Mom didnt hang up the phone correctly during the 911 call, she though it ended and the recording was analyzed to have 3 distinct voices on the recording, tho Patsy swears there were only 2...they believe its Burke saying "what did u find".

Ransom note had a first draft written and found at the house, who has time for that? Weird

Burke said he was in bed all night, then admits to using a flashlight downstairs in the middle of the night to play with a Christmas toy..Coincidence? 

At first they thought JonB had markings on her body from a stun gun, but now they say that the markings could have come from the track of a train set...which Burke got for Christmas that day.  Coincidence?

Me? I think Burke did it, maybe by accident, maybe not.  The Rents had a choice...lose one kid or 2. Patsy wrote the note...she was the only one tested that they could not rule out.

 

I just don't find that much of this stuff that weird.

 

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PineappleGate is very interesting....also that she suffered tramatic head injury 3 hours before the garot was put on her.  Wierd

Ugh, I used to find the pineapple interesting way back when (I love stomach contents, haha!). Now I think it's interesting but that people may be making a mountain out of a molehill with it. And it's not that strange to me that a bowl would have the fingerprints of the people whose bowl it was on it. If it's strange that JonBenét ate pineapple in the middle of the night, OK, I can see that. But that pineapple really doesn't say as much as people think it does, IMO. Also, oh my goodness, so many of my FB friends think this pineapple info is new! Are these shows presenting it as such?

 

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Burke NEVER asked what happened to her until they got to their friend's house.  Weird

Burke never left his room, even when mom AND police came in separately with flashlights. Weird

 

When Burke was taken to the family friends' house, wasn't it still a presumed kidnapping? If he were told that, maybe he understood that no one yet knew what exactly happened. As for the police coming in with flashlights, he said that he heard the commotion and knew something was up and it was not necessarily good. If he's not a gregarious kid to begin with (and I don't know that he was or wasn't), maybe he figured it was best to sit tight? 

 

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Burke's smile. Uber creepy Weird.

I think we've covered here that people express nervous/anxious habits for far less than stressful encounters talking about your sister's murder on TV (with Dr. Phil of all people, no less). He did that smile anytime he talked, whether it was about grisly things or not. I think he can't help it, and I don't think it's an indication of anything. If Burke's weird, he has plenty of reason to be, IMO.

 

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Mom didnt hang up the phone correctly during the 911 call, she though it ended and the recording was analyzed to have 3 distinct voices on the recording, tho Patsy swears there were only 2...they believe its Burke saying "what did u find".

This has been interesting to me since whenever it was that I first heard it. However, no one seems to be able to confirm that there's a third voice. And while I don't know if or why the 911 lady would make it up, I also don't know that her word is the end all, be all either. 

 

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Ransom note had a first draft written and found at the house, who has time for that? Weird

 

You could posit that an intruder, who knew the Ramseys were at a party, could have time while lying in wait. I am not saying I think that's what happened, but that there was time for it. And where is the first draft (or the paintbrush pieces or the duct tape?)

 

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Burke said he was in bed all night, then admits to using a flashlight downstairs in the middle of the night to play with a Christmas toy..Coincidence?

But what's the "coincidence"? I don't recall Burke saying he was in bed all night but I do recall his parents saying that, and John later saying that he'd actually had to corral Burke, who was playing with a toy, to bed. Last night, he said he didn't know if he used a flashlight. (Honestly, why any of these people would be using a flashlight in their own home is kind of weird to me, even if JonBenét was asleep when they brought her inside from the car).

 

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At first they thought JonB had markings on her body from a stun gun, but now they say that the markings could have come from the track of a train set...which Burke got for Christmas that day.  Coincidence?

Again, what's the coincidence? And who is the "they"--police or other investigators (I thought it was Lou Smit who suggested it)? I believe that it was the police who suggested the marks were from a toy (right?), and the police were dead set on it being someone in the family. Those marks also look like stun-gun contact points, complete with one dot larger due to inconsistent contact with the skin (and wasn't it the police who pooh-poohed that theory?). And I am having a tough time putting together how the train track would be used in this injury (granted, I have not gotten a good look at the train track)--was this thing some kind of super-substantial heavy-duty metal? Was Burke, like, holding it like a sword and doing an "engarde!" kind of thing? And if he's bent on conking her with something really damaging, why bother with a train track piece--and twice? 

 

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Me? I think Burke did it, maybe by accident, maybe not.  The Rents had a choice...lose one kid or 2. Patsy wrote the note...she was the only one tested that they could not rule out.

The note and handwriting stuff looks pretty damning (probably one of the more damning things in all this, IMO). But handwriting analysis still isn't an exact science (and a few exact sciences have lately been presenting questionable accuracy in crime investigations), and it's not like the police tested everyone who was in Boulder that night--I think it was maybe 9 or 10 people?

And, oh my goodness, I cannot stress enough that not being ruled out (along with the term "not inconsistent with") is far from irrefutable evidence of guilt...and we should all be glad for that, whether or not we ever--god forbid--find ourselves in some kind of hot legal pickle like this. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[teddysmom]

I think Burke may be on the autism spectrum.  My niece is so I am familiar with it.  They can be socially awkward, act inappropriate during stress and not be aware of how to gauge others' behavior.  He displays all of these.  

His parents telling him to stay in his room during the search and after her body was found is not odd at all, why would anyone subject their other child to that horror? 

[beesknees]

5 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

I think Burke may be on the autism spectrum.  My niece is so I am familiar with it.  They can be socially awkward, act inappropriate during stress and not be aware of how to gauge others' behavior.  He displays all of these.  

His parents telling him to stay in his room during the search and after her body was found is not odd at all, why would anyone subject their other child to that horror? 

Right?  I mean, as a parent I probably would be happy if (for a time) my child would stay in his room, safe, and out of adult matters while I was running around like a psycho trying to find my other missing, kidnapped for ransom child.  I mean, one cannot win in this situation - not the parents, not the kids.  People would always Monday morning quarterback.  Hindsight is definitely 20-20.

If Burke was a child who got frightened easily and routinely avoided intense conflict I can buy, that as a 9 year old, he would stay in his bed in order to feel safe until his parents came and got him.  I don't get why that is such a stretch.  It depends on the kid's personality IMO.  

I have more than one child.  When I think of my own kids - yeah, one would have come running down at 9 yrs. old wondering what in the fresh hell was going on and asking a million questions to the point that we would have to tell her "Go up to your room and stay there until we come up and get you" but my other child, no ma 'am.  Straight up Burke.  So which child would would be exhibiting "normal" behavior?  For me, both.  Each according to his/her own personality.

[RedheadZombie]

23 hours ago, wings707 said:

I don't know as many facts as many of you do so correct me where I am wrong.  

They know that someone who was already in the house did it; they just do not have enough proof to go to trial.   There were no footprints in the snow to the partially open basement window that was too small for any adult to get through, anyway.  No sign of forced entry anywhere.   And their house filled with friends before the police even got there.  The crime scene was no longer useful for evidence.  

I have not read if any friend or employee had a key.  Anyone know that?  

One thought I had was someone picked the lock (or had a key) and hid waiting for them to come home.  When all were asleep, he went and got her, and brought her down to the kitchen where he offered her a snack of pineapple.   Then killed her.  

I think it will remain a mystery forever.  

There were no footprints in the snow because most of it had melted by the time pictures were taken.  A footprint outside near the broken window was noted and determined to be from a Trek(?) type shoe, which none of the Ramseys owned.  The window was easily climbed through as evidenced on camera by Lou Smit, who was an older gentleman.  I imagine a younger man would find it even easier.  Regardless, John Ramsey broke that window himself when he was locked out, so clearly he climbed into the window. 

When the Boulder DA became frustrated at the mess the locals had made, he called in Lou Smit.  Smit believed an intruder had broken in earlier and laid in wait, writing the ransom note, etc.  That would have given the intruder plenty of time to familiarize themselves with the house.  Also, the house was on an open house Christmas tour.  He also believed the suitcase pictured underneath the broken window was planned to carry JB unconscious and out of the house, but he couldn't negotiate the window well and the suitcase. 

The pineapple is a sticking point that seems to have become evidence of the Ramseys guilt for some.  I think it's one of those things we'll never learn.  The autopsy stated that the food could have been pineapple, and depending on how long she was dead before she was found, it's difficult to know when she actually ate it.  But assuming the Ramseys fed JB pineapple as part of the nefarious plan to kill her, it still doesn't make sense.  Did Burke feed it to her before his psychopathic jealous rage and crushing her skull?  Did Patsy feed her child in the midst of a rage attack from bed wetting, before torturing and killing her?  I have little theory on the pineapple, but sadistic killers have been known to comfort their victims in the midst of the torture.  The BTK killer ensured a woman's children were safe in the bathroom, and even gave her a glass of water in the midst of her rape and murder.  

[Guest]

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Burke never left his room, even when mom AND police came in separately with flashlights. Weird

Burke never left his room, even when mom AND police came in separately with flashlights. Weird

I wonder why they were using flashlights to enter his room? What time was it in the morning when someone decided to go check in and see if Burke wasn't murdered in his bed? Wasn't it light out by then? Why not just flip the light switch on? I haven't seen this part of the interview yet since my Dr Phils are a day behind schedule in this market, but did 30-year-old Burke talk about his mother and the police using flashlights or was it part of his interview at nine years old? I watched the interview when he was nine and he never mentioned anything about his mother having a flashlight or the police entering his room at all. 

There's no way I believe Burke killed her but I truly believe he's covering up for whoever did. I did hear him say he's never read the ransom note but "had seen pictures of it." WHAT?! No.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Guest
Tried to fix quote that didn't quote. Didn't work.

[TattleTeeny]

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A footprint outside near the broken window was noted and determined to be from a Trek(?) type shoe, which none of the Ramseys owned. 

The Hi-Tec (sp?) boot!

I don't know how well I can articulate this but one thing I wonder is if JonBenét ate the pineapple herself (at whatever time of day or night)? I know that they found only fingerprints of Burke and Patsy on the bowl, but in light of the handling of the crime scene, I wonder. Unlikely, but she was 6, not 2, and capable of eating pineapple unaided. And also, while so much stuff like the notepad and the paintbrush and the pineapple, etc., do cause one to consider the family due to those things' all being items the family would know existed and where to quickly and easily grab them from, they still don't necessarily mean that someone else could not have. Again, I apologize if I am being inarticulate; lack of sleep (snoring BF!) and I just found out I have to buy 4 new tires--booo! 

Edited September 14, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

(Honestly, why any of these people would be using a flashlight in their own home is kind of weird to me, even if JonBenét was asleep when they brought her inside from the car).

Seriously, you don't carry a child and a flash light up a flight of stairs if you can help it.  You turn on the foyer light.

 

3 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Unlikely, but she was 6, not 2, and capable of eating pineapple unaided.

Agreed, and it's quite likely a six year-old would pick a piece straight from the bowl, touching neither the spoon nor the bowl.

One impression I have from the photos we've seen is that the house, for all it's expensive furniture and lavish Christmas decorations, was not particularly well kept.  The housekeeper probably had a list of chores, kitchen, bathrooms, laundry, vacuuming, but did nothing off-list.  Meanwhile neither Patsy nor John seemed very orderly at all.   Pictures show clutter pushed to corners in every room and things left out that I wouldn't leave out.  Who leaves a broken window in the basement un-mended for months?  There were paint cans and general mess all over the basement.  My point being, a bowl of pineapple might go unnoticed on the counter for a few days and I seriously doubt if they knew the number and location of every flash light they owned. Even Burke, with his poor memory of the past, remembers that his ball bat was usually outside somewhere.

[GreyBunny]

1 hour ago, Giant Misfit said:

I wonder why they were using flashlights to enter his room? What time was it in the morning when someone decided to go check in and see if Burke wasn't murdered in his bed? Wasn't it light out by then? Why not just flip the light switch on?

If I thought one of my kids was kidnapped and I had another kid in the house, I'd be running all over the place flipping on every light as soon as I entered the room so I could see everything at once, I wouldn't be creeping around and wasting time with a flashlight.

As for the alleged intruder, if the person really wanted to kidnap JonBenet, then why try to climb back out the window?  Why not just walk out the front door?  The house was relatively secluded, it obviously had no alarm system and the Ramseys didn't care about a broken window not being fixed for weeks or months, the intruder felt comfortable enough to hide out while the family came home and was awake (if the intruder came in while the Ramseys were at the party), sit down and write a letter (maybe two), go upstairs and through a maze of hallways to JonBenet's room and who knows where else while everyone was sleeping...there's no reason why the kidnapper had to futz with getting himself and a bulky suitcase/unconscious kid out a small broken window when the front door (or another exit) was much easier.

Edited September 14, 2016 by GreyBunny

[RedheadZombie]

I believe Burke said Patsy flipped on the light while frantically searching his room.  It was later when the cop came in with the flashlight.  

[JudyObscure]

I've wondered why an intruder didn't just carry JonBenet out, too.  I think he might have lost all his nerve by the time everything had gone as terribly wrong as it did.  Even the most ruthless criminal may have a "What have I done?!" moment, when he just wants to run.

[poeticlicensed]

No way Burke did it. First off, how would he know how to fashion a garot? And have enough strength to strangle her so hard that the rope was imbedded in the skin on her neck? And she had taser marks on her body.  Where would 9 year old Burke get a taser? And there was non familial DNA on her underwear. How did that happen?

As far as the ransom note, Patsy could not be excluded completely, however the match was very low, right at borderline for exclusion. 

I firmly believe it was an intruder, someone who wanted to kidnap JonBenet and sexually assault her. He couldn't get her out of the house so he murdered her and left her in the basement. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[Cementhead]

Percentage wise, as someone who has closely followed this story all of these years, I have always been on the side of 'the intruder' theory with about 90% certainty and at least 10% room leftover for doubt.   So I am sending props out to all of you great posters who have added so much great information and insight here, so much so that it has had me looking at things in a whole new light and from different angles that I had not considered on my own.  I am still a believer of the intruder theory but some of you guys most definitely have opened my eyes to the possibilities of the 'but what if it wasn't an intruder...'  So many different ways of interpreting things.  This thread is a fascinating read.  A terrible, terrible topic, that is for sure, but such smart, informative posts!

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

No way Burke did it. First off, how would he know how to fashion a garot? . . .

Where would 9 year old Burke get a taser?

Point 1:  The Ramseys have owned boats; the knots on the garotte looked like something a sailor could do; I still think John helped with the cover-up, whether Patsy or Burke struck the first blow.

Point 2:  No proof it was a taser; could have been the end points of a train track.  Burke had a train set.

As I watched the second part of the interview this morning, I became more and more uncomfortable with Burke.  Surely in the last 20 years, SOMEONE has tried to teach him to quit smiling, especially when talking about seeing his sister in her casket.

[jumper sage]

7 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

This has been interesting to me since whenever it was that I first heard it. However, no one seems to be able to confirm that there's a third voice. And while I don't know if or why the 911 lady would make it up, I also don't know that her word is the end all, be all either.

I tried to find out what time the police arrived at the residence.  We know when they got there many people were walking around the house.  Patsy called 911 at 5:52 am, can't find when policed arrived, body found at 1:30 pm.  I had no idea it took them that long to find her body.  Very poor police work indeed.  In the 7.5 hours all these people were in the house a "friend" could have emerged from the basement and blended in with the others?  If the police got there in a timely manner, which we don't know, couldn't a friend be the other voice?

2 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

As for the alleged intruder, if the person really wanted to kidnap JonBenet, then why try to climb back out the window?  Why not just walk out the front door?  The house was relatively secluded, it obviously had no alarm system and the Ramseys didn't care about a broken window not being fixed for weeks or months, the intruder felt comfortable enough to hide out while the family came home and was awake (if the intruder came in while the Ramseys were at the party), sit down and write a letter (maybe two), go upstairs and through a maze of hallways to JonBenet's room and who knows where else while everyone was sleeping...there's no reason why the kidnapper had to futz with getting himself and a bulky suitcase/unconscious kid out a small broken window when the front door (or another exit) was much easier.

If the intruder came in while they were out couldn't he/her hide in her room until parents went to bed?  I agree with you @GreyBunny.

I also found it interesting in the link I posted that an older half sibling listed his address at their house and was attending U of Colorodo.  If it was Christmas wouldn't he be home?  I suppose he could have flown out to his mother's house.  I have never heard of another sibling living at the address.  Odd.

Edited September 14, 2016 by jumper sage

[4leafclover]

Quote

I also found it interesting in the link I posted that an older half sibling listed his address at their house and was attending U of Colorodo.

1

Maybe to avoid paying out of state tuition?  I don't know but that seems feasible.  I still think this will continue to be one of the great unsolved mysteries of our time, along the lines of who really killed JFK?

[Mannahatta]

20 hours ago, 4leafclover said:

FWIW our local NBC affiliate asked a body language expert to analyze Burke Ramsey's responses to Dr. Phil.  Below is an excerpt from her report:

Hargrave said there are some general signs to look for when a person is being deceitful, but noted that she wasn’t implying whether Ramsey was lying in the interview or not.

"When someone is deceptive the eyes will go to the right because you're trying to construct some kind of information with your right brain. So when someone lies, typically the eyes will go to the right. When someone is telling the truth and looking for information that has already been stored in their mind, the eyes will go to the left."

Now here is a link a few of you might be interested in:  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/lying-eye-direction-study_n_1667677.html?utm_hp_ref=science   To quote in part  "Researchers in the United Kingdom investigated the alleged correlation between eye direction and lying after realizing it was being taught in behavioral training courses, seminars and on the Web without the support of a shred of scientific evidence. The idea has its roots in a largely discredited 1970s theory called Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), a set of techniques intended to help people master social interactions." Like many others, the above quoted Hargrave was taught this theory, believes it, and continues to perpetuate it.  The problem is that it's never been proven.

[TattleTeeny]

Plus, once that becomes a working theory that the public can read, maybe criminals would make an effort to not do it.

[WicketyWack]

This second installment was hard for me to watch. More so than the first, I felt horribly sorry for Burke. I don't think he did it and I don't think he knows who did it. I could practically feel chronic anxiety coming off him in waves through the screen. If he and his family are truly innocent (and after nearly 20 years of being obsessed with this case, I have arrived at the conclusion that they are) ... what happened to all 3 of them after losing JonBenet is beyond traumatic. Burke struck me as someone who has lived with intense public pressure, scrutiny and scorn that none of us could possibly relate to. I think it has affected him in ways we can't even imagine. 

[TattleTeeny]

And at an age that would definitely imprint on him.

[Joe Jitsu913]

22 hours ago, jumper sage said:

I tried to find out what time the police arrived at the residence.  We know when they got there many people were walking around the house.  Patsy called 911 at 5:52 am, can't find when policed arrived, body found at 1:30 pm.  I had no idea it took them that long to find her body.  Very poor police work indeed.  In the 7.5 hours all these people were in the house a "friend" could have emerged from the basement and blended in with the others?  If the police got there in a timely manner, which we don't know, couldn't a friend be the other voice?

If the intruder came in while they were out couldn't he/her hide in her room until parents went to bed?  I agree with you @GreyBunny.

I also found it interesting in the link I posted that an older half sibling listed his address at their house and was attending U of Colorodo.  If it was Christmas wouldn't he be home?  I suppose he could have flown out to his mother's house.  I have never heard of another sibling living at the address.  Odd.

John Andrew was in Atlanta for Christmas.  He lived at the Ramsey home when school was in session. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

I've been on both sides of the fence and I'm firmly convinced that Patsy did it or knows who did.  She wrote the note , IMO.  Everything about the note is her including the tendency to write with acronyms and the obsession with French words (attaché).  JBR not only had been wetting the bed but going to the bathroom on her bedroom rug.  The Ramsey's were not a happy family,  IMO and they refused to turn over their medical records which included mental health information. 

[ClareWalks]

I have no idea who killed Jon Benet and I doubt any of us will ever know. I'm just here to make fun of the super sleuth wannabe who asked Dr. Phil today "all the magazines at the time said her family did it, why would they say that if it wasn't true?" Take a seat, Nancy Drew. It's called "selling magazines," and it's something magazines are particularly interested in doing.

[Maharincess]

On 9/13/2016 at 5:11 PM, TattleTeeny said:

On 9/14/2016 at 0:23 PM, GreyBunny said:

 

Damn quote boxes will not go away! 

I wish "they" would investigate the Darlie Routier case like they are doing with Jon Benet.  I would absolutely LOVE to dissect that case with all of you. 

[UsernameFatigue]

 I am not a fan of Dr Phil's and have never watched his show previously, but I was interested in tuning in to see Burke. I only watched part of today's show and while Burke was not on it gave some info that I don't remember hearing before. I found it very interesting that DA Alex Hunter under deposition admitted that the police department leaked lies to the media to bolster their theory that the Ramsey's killed JonBenet.  It is one thing to hear rumors that they leaked lies to the media, but for a DA to actually testify that that is true? Wow. Just. Wow. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[jumper sage]

On 9/14/2016 at 2:28 PM, JudyObscure said:

Who leaves a broken window in the basement un-mended for months? 

Right?  I would fix it right away even if only for animals coming into the house.  Drafts?

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

 I am not a fan of Dr Phil's and have never watched his show previously, but I was interested in tuning in to see Burke. I only watched part of today's show and while Burke was not on it gave some info that I don't remember hearing before. I found it very interesting that DA Alex Hunter under deposition admitted that the police department leaked lies to the media to bolster their theory that the Ramsey's killed JonBenet.  It is one thing to hear rumors that they leaked lies to the media, but for a DA to actually testify that that is true? Wow. Just. Wow. 

I was blown away by all that.  Just watched Dr. Drew and his unqualified interpretation.  I can't believe Dr. Phil beats out Dr. Drew.  I was quite impressed with Dr. Phil today.  Going over the case point by point and blowing all the police departments crap out of the water.  On the DISID channel's rendition the original police lady, to this day, swears by the opinion that Patsy/John did it.

3 hours ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

I've been on both sides of the fence and I'm firmly convinced that Patsy did it or knows who did.  She wrote the note , IMO.  Everything about the note is her including the tendency to write with acronyms and the obsession with French words (attaché).  JBR not only had been wetting the bed but going to the bathroom on her bedroom rug.  The Ramsey's were not a happy family,  IMO and they refused to turn over their medical records which included mental health information. 

Even after the information that the DNA cleared the family within 2 weeks of the crime?  Even with the information that the police withheld that information for 7 months from their own DA?  Bed wetting is not a foreign concept with children.

I wish someone knew how long it took the police to respond, why can't I find the info?  Why did it take 7.5 hours to find a body in a house?  Why would the police sit on their asses and not look themselves?  I had to crack up when Mr. Ramsey said the police lady said he was shady by casually going through the mail when she should have gone through the mail herself being the police and all.

[Maharincess]

I missed today's episode, did Dr Phil mention anything about the creepy smile Burke had while discussing his murdered sister?  

[Arynm]

I think the third part is next week. I'm 99% convinced Burke didn't do it. He had two moments that for me really showed that he was not involved. One was his face when Dr. Phil mentioned the train tracks that fit the marks on her face. You could tell that he had no idea about that theory at all, it really took him by surprise. He made the same face when Dr. Phil asked him about sexually abusing his sister. It was like the idea was so foreign to him. I think he's weird and might be covering for his parents. He might not even know IF they did it, but he's still covering, just in case. I would bet he never asked them or had any discussion about it. He would rather not know.

[Madding crowd]

1 hour ago, Maharincess said:

I missed today's episode, did Dr Phil mention anything about the creepy smile Burke had while discussing his murdered sister?  

Yes, he said it is a nervous or anxious reaction. He explained that Burke is a very quiet and private person, and being on TV and being questioned is making him anxious. He said it is the same as some people twisting their hair or wringing their hands or other things people do when nervous. As I said previously, my son laughs or smiles when he is nervous, and my hands shake; everyone is different. I say a lot of bad things about Dr. Phil, but I thought he handed the questions and answers today in a very professional way. He didn't try to pick sides, he just looked at the evidence in a factual way. He noted how loving Burke was when talking about his sister, and how hurt he is to this day that the murderer was not caught.

One of the reasons I give Phil so much much crap online is because I know he has the capacity to be objective and caring. He lets his ego overrun all that when he has non celebrity people on. He treats well known people properly and everyday people like crap. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

2 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Right?  I would fix it right away even if only for animals coming into the house.  Drafts?

I was blown away by all that.  Just watched Dr. Drew and his unqualified interpretation.  I can't believe Dr. Phil beats out Dr. Drew.  I was quite impressed with Dr. Phil today.  Going over the case point by point and blowing all the police departments crap out of the water.  On the DISID channel's rendition the original police lady, to this day, swears by the opinion that Patsy/John did it.

Even after the information that the DNA cleared the family within 2 weeks of the crime?  Even with the information that the police withheld that information for 7 months from their own DA?  Bed wetting is not a foreign concept with children.

I wish someone knew how long it took the police to respond, why can't I find the info?  Why did it take 7.5 hours to find a body in a house?  Why would the police sit on their asses and not look themselves?  I had to crack up when Mr. Ramsey said the police lady said he was shady by casually going through the mail when she should have gone through the mail herself being the police and all.

I agree bedwetting itself isn't troublesome,  but leading up to the murder JBR had regressed in her toilet training habits,  soiling herself and sometimes asking whomever within earshot to help wipe her. Her teachers noted that a month or so before the murder,  her demeanor changed and she was much more clingy.  Linda Hoffman stated that a month leading up to the murder,  Patsy was acting erratically having mood swings.  We may never know what Patsy's mental health was like since they did not turn over her medical records. The Ramsey's and their lawyers did everything in their power to obstruct this investigation. Why?  There is a killer on the loose (per Patsy's words)  so why wouldn't they cooperate with the police to find out who killed JBR?  Everything had to be submitted in writing to the Ramseys before they would consider cooperating.  It's my opinion that they didn't help with the public perception of them having killed JBR.  Of anything,  they made it worse. 

As for  DNA evidence,  people would often use JBR's room as a guest room and sleep in her bed. I'm guessing John Andrew's friends?  We also have a contaminated crime scene.  The killer or killers also made sure to change JBR's clothing and put some oversized underwear on her. Underwear that Patsy had bought for a relative that was either wrapped as a present or stuffed in a drawer.  Why would a supposed kidnapper take the time to redress his victim and put on underwear ? 

[Rylee]

2 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Right?  I would fix it right away even if only for animals coming into the house.  Drafts?

I was blown away by all that.  Just watched Dr. Drew and his unqualified interpretation.  I can't believe Dr. Phil beats out Dr. Drew.  I was quite impressed with Dr. Phil today.  Going over the case point by point and blowing all the police departments crap out of the water.  On the DISID channel's rendition the original police lady, to this day, swears by the opinion that Patsy/John did it.

Even after the information that the DNA cleared the family within 2 weeks of the crime?  Even with the information that the police withheld that information for 7 months from their own DA?  Bed wetting is not a foreign concept with children.

I wish someone knew how long it took the police to respond, why can't I find the info?  Why did it take 7.5 hours to find a body in a house?  Why would the police sit on their asses and not look themselves?  I had to crack up when Mr. Ramsey said the police lady said he was shady by casually going through the mail when she should have gone through the mail herself being the police and all.

I have read uniformed police in a marked car arrive at 5:59, 7 minutes after the 911 call, (logged at 5:52) went out, but that a detective, (Det. Linda Arndt) didn't arrive until 8:11.

[GreyBunny]

I tortured myself and waded through some of the internet quagmire to get caught up on this case. As of now, I think John did it. He tried to stage a laughably inept kidnapping scenario but got lucky that the Boulder police were more incompetent than the Keystone Cops. 

I don't think there was any intruder. Nothing was found that wasn't already part of the house and nothing was taken. I don't think the window was broken until that night. John was lying about taking off his clothes, breaking a basement window with his foot (with his shoe still on), and slipping through to get into a locked house, and then leaving the window unfixed for months.  The heavy blow to the head and complicated garrote seem like an attack by an adult, not a weakling 9-year-old. 

I think John wrote the letter. Yeah, I know, handwriting samples, but the note said not to call the police or risk JonBenet being decapitated, and Patsy in a panic called the police. Why stage a phony kidnapping and then call the police before the body had even been removed from the house? The person who wrote that letter probably wasn't the person who called 911, and at that point no collaboration had happened.

I think John had been messing with JonBenet, maybe she was going to tell or she was going to scream, and he killed her.

[jumper sage]

1 hour ago, Rylee said:

I have read uniformed police in a marked car arrive at 5:59, 7 minutes after the 911 call, (logged at 5:52) went out, but that a detective, (Det. Linda Arndt) didn't arrive until 8:11.

Thanks!  I could not find it anywhere.  There was a houseful of people within 8 minutes of the 911 call?  How odd but then I never had a child go missing.

1 hour ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

The Ramsey's and their lawyers did everything in their power to obstruct this investigation. Why?  There is a killer on the loose (per Patsy's words)  so why wouldn't they cooperate with the police to find out who killed JBR?  Everything had to be submitted in writing to the Ramseys before they would consider cooperating.

The lawyer said they knew they were the targets from day 1.  The police tried to make them fit the crime.  I believe they knew the DNA didn't match and couldn't understand why the police were still going after them.  There are tons of people in prison for crimes they did not commit.  Police don't always act right on a case.  If this was a case of a working class family, who did not participate in pageants then this blown up case would never had taken hold.  The first officer on site said he made a myriad of mistakes.

 

1 hour ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

As for  DNA evidence,  people would often use JBR's room as a guest room and sleep in her bed. I'm guessing John Andrew's friends?  We also have a contaminated crime scene.  The killer or killers also made sure to change JBR's clothing and put some oversized underwear on her. Underwear that Patsy had bought for a relative that was either wrapped as a present or stuffed in a drawer.  Why would a supposed kidnapper take the time to redress his victim and put on underwear ? 

The investigator the DA hired (I believe) said the clothing, more then 1 piece, contained JBR's blood and DNA of an unknown person.  If they said man then it was probably semen.  That was not mentioned, just my own opinion.

[jumper sage]

On 9/14/2016 at 9:49 AM, TattleTeeny said:

This has been interesting to me since whenever it was that I first heard it. However, no one seems to be able to confirm that there's a third voice. And while I don't know if or why the 911 lady would make it up, I also don't know that her word is the end all, be all either. 

Familiar with 911 call centers.  She was still recording her end and it could have been someone talking to her in the room.  Just a suggestion.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

The killer or killers also made sure to change JBR's clothing and put some oversized underwear on her. Underwear that Patsy had bought for a relative that was either wrapped as a present or stuffed in a drawer.  Why would a supposed kidnapper take the time to redress his victim and put on underwear ? 

I have never heard this about the underwear. And she was found in long-john bottoms and the same shirt she'd worn to the Christmas party the night before--white with a glittery star. If it was supposed to be a kidnapping, she would likely be dressed, no? And, in keeping with the blanket, if this were done by someone who cared for her (in whatever capacity), that person almost certainly would not have allowed her to be found undressed.

Quote

It's my opinion that they didn't help with the public perception of them having killed JBR.  Of anything,  they made it worse. 

Definitely agree. However, I can also easily see how someone with the means would push back against a police department like this one. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[Christi]

I thought this lastest Anser Questions show had a very odd tone.  It wasnt planned.  I think Phil got a lot of negative response, maybe even legal threats, for his first two shows.  He presented some evidence that made me think that the family did it...and this third show backtracked and had the tone of the Ramseys were set up by the police.

I still believe that the killing happened within the family, probably by accident.  The coverup imho was laughable, like the OJ thing.

There is not 1 piece of evidence that 1 thing used had come from outside the house.  Even the garrot was made with Patsys paintbrush.

The entire household sleeps in comas enough for a stranger tho hang around the house. In a bunch of different rooms, for over 3 hours? Crazy...JB was hit in the head 3 hours before the garrot was put on her.

The neighbor heard screams that night, but no one IN the house?

If u leave a ransom note, and have hours of time to hang around the house, who not take the body and try to collect the money?

[Joe Jitsu913]

9 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Thanks!  I could not find it anywhere.  There was a houseful of people within 8 minutes of the 911 call?  How odd but then I never had a child go missing.

The lawyer said they knew they were the targets from day 1.  The police tried to make them fit the crime.  I believe they knew the DNA didn't match and couldn't understand why the police were still going after them.  There are tons of people in prison for crimes they did not commit.  Police don't always act right on a case.  If this was a case of a working class family, who did not participate in pageants then this blown up case would never had taken hold.  The first officer on site said he made a myriad of mistakes.

 

The investigator the DA hired (I believe) said the clothing, more then 1 piece, contained JBR's blood and DNA of an unknown person.  If they said man then it was probably semen.  That was not mentioned, just my own opinion.

No semen found on the body,  they found what looked like she had been wiped down with a rag of some sort. 

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

I have never heard this about the underwear. And she was found in long-john bottoms and the same shirt she'd worn to the Christmas party the night before--white with a glittery star. If it was supposed to be a kidnapping, she would likely be dressed, no? And, in keeping with the blanket, if this were done by someone who cared for her (in whatever capacity), that person almost certainly would not have allowed her to be found undressed.

Definitely agree. However, I can also easily see how someone with the means would push back against a police department like this one. 

Yes, she was found wearing an oversized pair of Bloomies underwear meant as a gift for Patsy's niece with the words 'Wednesday' on them.  This underwear was concealed in a drawer so no one would know where it was except Patsy.  

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Yes, she was found wearing an oversized pair of Bloomies underwear meant as a gift for Patsy's niece with the words 'Wednesday' on them.  This underwear was concealed in a drawer so no one would know where it was except Patsy.  

Not arguing this, but do you have a source? I'd love to read t! TY in advance!

[Joe Jitsu913]

1 hour ago, Christi said:

 

The entire household sleeps in comas enough for a stranger tho hang around the house. In a bunch of different rooms, for over 3 hours? Crazy...JB was hit in the head 3 hours before the garrot was put on her.

The neighbor heard screams that night, but no one IN the house?

 

The parents bed room was on the third floor of a fully furnished mansion.  Jonbenets room was on the second floor on the opposite end of the house. Boulder PD tested this and you cannot hear anyone scream from the third floor (and this was when the furnishings had been removed).  

Also,  Patsy was used to getting up and cleaning JBR's messes every night as this was a regular occurrence. On the one night she doesn't get up to check on JBR,  a phantom intruder kills her daughter after spending hours in the home.  What great timing. 

[jumper sage]

18 minutes ago, Joe Jitsu913 said:

No semen found on the body,  they found what looked like she had been wiped down with a rag of some sort. 

Yes, she was found wearing an oversized pair of Bloomies underwear meant as a gift for Patsy's niece with the words 'Wednesday' on them.  This underwear was concealed in a drawer so no one would know where it was except Patsy.  

Do you have a link to this?

[Joe Jitsu913]

38 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

Do you have a link to this?

http://www.rense.com/general11/benet.htm (This link mentions the underwear and various other issues raised with the grand jury) 

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-oversize-bloomies.htm

 

(this link has an interview with Patsy.  Her response highlighted in yellow re: the underwear.) 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Joe Jitsu913

[TattleTeeny]

Ooh, TY!