S18.E37: Live Eviction 12

[zibnchy]

10 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Until Julie got excited about Jeff and Jordan having a boy I had completely forgotten that she has a small Moonves at home.  How old is that kid now anyways?

Chenbot has a Botlet? I didn't know she had a setting for procreation. (I actually like Julie and think she's been a very good sport all these years. I assume the money helps ease the pain.)

I don't really know who Jeff and Jordan are because I didn't watch for a few summers, but I got a big belly laugh about her name for a girl. Sailor. Why not call her Bartender? Or Dental Hygienist? Jordan strikes me as incredibly bland and kinda dumb. She should have had a baby with Corey.

[Nashville]

8 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Until Julie got excited about Jeff and Jordan having a boy I had completely forgotten that she has a small Moonves at home.  How old is that kid now anyways?

Holy shit, I'm old again.  Here I was thinking the kid was, what - 3, 4 years old now...? 

No.  From IMDb:

Quote

Son, Charlie Moonves, was born on September 24, 2009.

Kid's going to be 7 in a couple of weeks. 

I *hate* it when time sneaks away from me like that.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Jordan strikes me as incredibly bland and kinda dumb. 

If you think she's bad now you should have seen her when she was actually on the show. Compared to then, she was brilliantly articulate last night with Julie. To this day whenever I hear someone say the word "frustrating" I think of Jordan in the DR saying "It's fuss-tratin'!"

[Lamima]

56 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Thinking the guys are attractive and flirting are nothing. James basically accused her of being with all 3 guys. (And, please, how many women did James flirt with in his 2 seasons?)

Yeah, I remember a clip this season on an early episode where they showed James flirting with all the ladies. The clip was about how James likes the ladies. Why, James, is that okay but Nat flirting is some kind of proof that she was playing/using you?

Edited September 9, 2016 by Lamima

[ghoulina]

53 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

Thinking the guys are attractive and flirting are nothing. James basically accused her of being with all 3 guys. (And, please, how many women did James flirt with in his 2 seasons?

MMV, but I did not take his comments as saying she had BEEN with all 3 guys. I thought he was saying that she had attempted to get into a showmance with 3 different guys before him. As if it was always her agenda to get a guy to protect her in the game. And maybe that's part of why he's been so insecure; maybe he felt like her last option. 

[SevenStars]

4 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

MMV, but I did not take his comments as saying she had BEEN with all 3 guys. I thought he was saying that she had attempted to get into a showmance with 3 different guys before him. As if it was always her agenda to get a guy to protect her in the game. And maybe that's part of why he's been so insecure; maybe he felt like her last option. 

I assumed that's what he was saying too when I saw clips of him saying it to her. 

[DAngelus]

5 hours ago, Nashville said:

???  Given the presentation I took it that Julie was discussing perception by viewers, not HGs.  And I think Paul's goodbye message said a lot more about HG perception than anything Julie said.

Well, let's quote the 'bot directly:

Quote

JULIE:  It was a hard week on you and James.  He even accused you of throwing him under the bus.

NATALIE:  Yeah.

JULIE:  Did you?

NATALIE:  I did not throw him under the bus.  I would never do that to him.

JULIE: Do you know…let me explain why it was perceived that way, and then you can react.

NATALIE: Yeah.

JULIE:  When you went upstairs to the HoH room to apologize to Paul and Victor for stabbing them in the back, you said "I put my trust, I put trust in the wrong people's hands.  I really trusted James and his opinions."  How do you think that was interpreted?  What was that saying?

So Julie mentions James's accusing her and then cites a specific conversation Natalie had with V/P as the cause for this accusation.  In other words, Julie says that what Natalie told Paul and Victor led to James's later remarks.  It's not her job to tell Natalie how V/P reacted to Natalie's apologies, or how this affected James's perceptions of her.

Julie never once mentions "our viewing audience" or "America" or anything like that.  She's not telling Natalie to clear things up for the viewing public, she's talking to her about the damage done to "you and James".  It really sounds to me as though she's trying to make Natalie see James's side, be more sympathetic to him, make sure he gets her Jury vote.  (Which Natalie later says he has, but Julie didn't know this when she asked the question.)

Why would Julie do that?  Well, take a look at Julie's next question (after Natalie made an explanation that didn't exactly absolve James, btw)

Quote

JULIE:  We heard you just now, just seconds ago, call him your "soulmate" and profess your love for him.  Everyone wants to know: how real is this showmance?

Notice that now Julie is using "we" and "everyone" to talk about the public perception of Natalie and "Jatalie", which she didn't do before.  And it's in the context of Julie/"America"/TPTB wanting to know "Is there a chance outside of the House", because BB is invested in their "showmance" stories (hey, it is kind of funny that this show has produced more weddings than The Bachelor[ette], and in fewer seasons, no less) and would love nothing more than for James/Natalie to become BB Wedding #4, with BB Baby #3 announced on-stage in a year or two.  So I don't think I'm paranoid to think that AG might have a thumb on the scales to push Natalie closer to James, even if it means tampering with the result of the game.

As for Paul's goodbye message, all he said was "you lost my respect when you threw James under the bus".  He didn't highlight any particular conversation, much less a specific line of dialogue, the way that Julie did, nor did he imply a causal link between that conversation and James's later reactions, again as Julie did.  

It just didn't feel right to me.  Suppose that the F2 are Corey and Victor and Natalie is the deciding vote?  (Hypothetical scenario:  Corey has Nicole, Paulie, Zakiyah [because Paulie says so] and James; Victor has Paul/Bridgette/Michelle/Da'Vonne.)  Natalie obviously prefers Victor to Corey, but then she remembers "I was trying to put the blame for Victor's eviction on Corey, but those guys somehow thought I was 'throwing James under the bus' and they went and told James and it caused so much trouble and I was so miserable that week…aaagh, I'll just do what James wants and this will make things better between us."

In this scenario, Victor ends up getting done out of $450,000 because Julie identified a specific conversation as the cause of James's later resentments, where Paul didn't and Natalie might hardly have paid so much attention to once sentence in his goodbye message, anyhow.  (And, just for the sake of argument, let's say that James gets evicted in 3rd place [Victor wins the final HoH and gets "revenge!"] and so he doesn't have time to fill Natalie in on any backstory, just "I'm voting for Corey")  And thus hundreds of innocent goats end up getting burned because Julie wanted to push the "Jatalie" showmance.  I just felt that Julie was crossing a line.  But JMO.

ETA, re the Botlet:

Quote

[Charles Moonves]'s going to be 7 in a couple of weeks.

Julie was very visibly pregnant all through BB11, which is where Jeff and Jordan first met.  Her opening speech went something like "whether you're expecting the unexpected [glance down at her belly] or just expecting…", IIRC.  And BB18 - BB 11 equals seven years, so…yeah.  We're all getting older. And so it goes.

Edited September 9, 2016 by DAngelus

[JudyObscure]

I'm guessing Jordan was going to name her baby girl "Saylor," because "Taylor," is sort of popular now.  Sailor or Saylor she would have been in for some teasing,  Considering who the parents are the baby should probably have a name that's very easy to  learn to spell.

[RedheadZombie]

11 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Poor Natalie.  She was so excited to meet Julie that her voice went to scream level like the two year old we sat next to in the Dairy Queen last night.  Then Julie treated her as though she had literally thrown James under a bus.  I  don't care if she had meant to throw a little shade on James during her conversation with the Vic and Paul or not. It's a game, you're supposed to try and win.  Nothing Natalie did warranted Julie acting like she had been a horrible person.  I remember when Boogie won after practically proposing to Erika all season, while  DR-ing that he didn't like her, and not a word was said against him in the final show. In fact the show went so far as to allow an ex-houseguest to stand up from the audience and pretty much call her a slut. 

I don't know anything Nat said to James that compared with the way he treated her.  Nat was feeling bad and just wanted to sleep alone and his reaction was to  get mad, as though he had some permanent right to her body,  and then bring up all her past relationships in the house from before they were together.  She's been a NFL cheerleader, just wait till he hears about all the big athletes she dated before him.  Is he going to try to shame her for it?  I hope she goes home and forgets him.

I agree.  I didn't like that side of James I saw last night.  That's the side that moved away from his daughter to avoid the mother.  I mean he not only said terrible things, he ran to the rest and allowed them to comfort him in agreement with how horrible Natalie is.   And Nicole just bugs.  She's so horrified at the nasty game play she's seen from Natalie?  What would those things be, Nicole?  How about Natalie protecting you and your moron during her HOH, and then you and your moron flipping on Natalie/James because James said that Natalie wished they could have saved Victor.  Did they cast a vote for your precious moron, Nicole.  No.  You're an idiot.

[Wings]

24 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm guessing Jordan was going to name her baby girl "Saylor," because "Taylor," is sort of popular now.  Sailor or Saylor she would have been in for some teasing,  Considering who the parents are the baby should probably have a name that's very easy to  learn to spell.

Christy Brinkley named her daughter Sailor and she has been in the news lately.  We are going to see a rash of Sailors that could surpass Ashley.  Frank Zappa and Penn Gillette have the right idea.  :^) 

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

If you think she's bad now you should have seen her when she was actually on the show. Compared to then, she was brilliantly articulate last night with Julie. To this day whenever I hear someone say the word "frustrating" I think of Jordan in the DR saying "It's fuss-tratin'!"

Squirrels, too.  ;>

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Kid's going to be 7 in a couple of weeks. 

I *hate* it when time sneaks away from me like that.

I reminded my son of something obvious the other day and he said, Mom, I'm 40.  I said, WHEN DID YOU TURN 40!!!? 

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, DAngelus said:

Well, let's quote the 'bot directly:

Quote

JULIE:  It was a hard week on you and James.  He even accused you of throwing him under the bus.

NATALIE:  Yeah.

JULIE:  Did you?

NATALIE:  I did not throw him under the bus.  I would never do that to him.

JULIE: Do you know…let me explain why it was perceived that way, and then you can react.

NATALIE: Yeah.

JULIE:  When you went upstairs to the HoH room to apologize to Paul and Victor for stabbing them in the back, you said "I put my trust, I put trust in the wrong people's hands.  I really trusted James and his opinions."  How do you think that was interpreted?  What was that saying?

So Julie mentions James's accusing her and then cites a specific conversation Natalie had with V/P as the cause for this accusation.  In other words, Julie says that what Natalie told Paul and Victor led to James's later remarks.  It's not her job to tell Natalie how V/P reacted to Natalie's apologies, or how this affected James's perceptions of her.
Julie never once mentions "our viewing audience" or "America" or anything like that.  

Well... considering the entirety of Julie's and Natalie's conversation was taking place in front of a viewing audience and being broadcast to America, I guess I assumed it was kinda implied.  Silly silly me.  :>

But I see your point.  Standing on its own, Julie's "it was perceived" remark is totally ambiguous insofar as she never specifies perceived by whom, and I took it to mean perceived by Julie and - by extension - the rest of the viewing public.  Reviewing it in the context of the entire Natalie/Julie conversation, however, at the very least strongly implies the interpretation should be "perceived by James".

 

Quote

As for Paul's goodbye message, all he said was "you lost my respect when you threw James under the bus".  He didn't highlight any particular conversation, much less a specific line of dialogue, the way that Julie did, nor did he imply a causal link between that conversation and James's later reactions, again as Julie did.  

It just didn't feel right to me.  Suppose that the F2 are Corey and Victor and Natalie is the deciding vote?  (Hypothetical scenario:  Corey has Nicole, Paulie, Zakiyah [because Paulie says so] and James; Victor has Paul/Bridgette/Michelle/Da'Vonne.)  Natalie obviously prefers Victor to Corey, but then she remembers "I was trying to put the blame for Victor's eviction on Corey, but those guys somehow thought I was 'throwing James under the bus' and they went and told James and it caused so much trouble and I was so miserable that week…aaagh, I'll just do what James wants and this will make things better between us."

In this scenario, Victor ends up getting done out of $450,000 because Julie identified a specific conversation as the cause of James's later resentments, where Paul didn't and Natalie might hardly have paid so much attention to once sentence in his goodbye message, anyhow.  (And, just for the sake of argument, let's say that James gets evicted in 3rd place [Victor wins the final HoH and gets "revenge!"] and so he doesn't have time to fill Natalie in on any backstory, just "I'm voting for Corey")  And thus hundreds of innocent goats end up getting burned because Julie wanted to push the "Jatalie" showmance.  I just felt that Julie was crossing a line.  But JMO.

Once again - my misunderstanding of what you were referring to.  When in your post you made the "what the other contestants were thinking and why" statement, I - again - didn't catch you were talking about James, and took you to be referring to Paul (due to his immediately-following UTB statement in his goodbye message).  Pure confusion on my part.

 

Quote

ETA, re the Botlet:

Julie was very visibly pregnant all through BB11, which is where Jeff and Jordan first met.  Her opening speech went something like "whether you're expecting the unexpected [glance down at her belly] or just expecting…", IIRC.  And BB18 - BB 11 equals seven years, so…yeah.  We're all getting older. And so it goes.

Yeahhh... I wasn't commenting on anything more than my own memory's tendency to blur time stuff together as I get older.  But I appreciate the reinforcement.  :)

 

3 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm guessing Jordan was going to name her baby girl "Saylor," because "Taylor," is sort of popular now.  Sailor or Saylor she would have been in for some teasing

"Saylor" was my immediate take as well - don't ask me why.  If I had to make a guess I'd say it's because I associate "Sailor" as a given name with Nicolas Cage's character in Wild At Heart (Sailor Ripley), so I wouldn't automatically think of it as a female name.  But that's just me.

[RedheadZombie]

30 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm guessing Jordan was going to name her baby girl "Saylor," because "Taylor," is sort of popular now.  Sailor or Saylor she would have been in for some teasing,  Considering who the parents are the baby should probably have a name that's very easy to  learn to spell.

Believe it or not, Sailor/Saylor is a very trendy name right now.  Several celebrities have daughters with this name, but all I can come up with off the top of my head - Christie Brinkley, Kristin Cavallari, and Bristol Palin.

9 hours ago, llewis823 said:

Whenever I see Jeff and Jordan, I always feel like he is just pacifying her. I'm sure he must love her to have gotten married & be having a baby together but he just seems to disregard her opinions. Oh, I don't know - I just don't feel the love with these two the way I do...I know, gasp...Brenchel. lol (Who I really think love & respect each other despite the fact they really are obnoxious. lol)

I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this, but I saw the Marriage Boot Camp season that included Jeff and Jordan.  I thought that Jeff clearly adored Jordan and was quite open about it.  Jordan, on the other hand, had a more difficult time expressing her feelings and concerns.  She seemed like the type who had been raised to be sweet and pretty, and just go along to keep the peace.  He seems to be patient with her when she's having a hard time admitting to any difficulties they may have, and didn't try to talk over her or speak for her.

[slasherboy]

During a TH, Nicole kind of grimaced like "Oh, no!  This can't be good!" when she pointed out that she was the last girl in the house.  If people didn't know better (which will be a shit load of viewers) they would think she dreaded that.  Fuck you, Nicole.

[slasherboy]

There are 4-5 celebrity babies out there named Sailor (spelled just like this).  I've only heard it for a girl and never seen it spelled Saylor.  Doesn't mean somebody doesn't have a baby named Saylor and spelled Saylor, it's just that I haven't come across any.  Not that I'm looking.  Don't judge.

[simplyme]

4 hours ago, DAngelus said:

It just didn't feel right to me.  Suppose that the F2 are Corey and Victor and Natalie is the deciding vote? 

I'd say, well, then we can proably point to more than 50 way, way more egregious examples of TPTB doing things that could possibly have changed the outcome more than Julie asking Nat this line of questioning and shrug and move on, but maybe that's just me.

[Rachel RSL]

7 hours ago, ghoulina said:

MMV, but I did not take his comments as saying she had BEEN with all 3 guys. I thought he was saying that she had attempted to get into a showmance with 3 different guys before him. As if it was always her agenda to get a guy to protect her in the game. And maybe that's part of why he's been so insecure; maybe he felt like her last option. 

Possibly but, unless I'm remembering wrong, I'm fairly certain he said "You had a fling with Paulie" which, to me, definitely implies that something happened.

[Newbietunes]

12 hours ago, Gummo said:

This is going to sound awfully petty, but remembering how Jordan used to nag Jeff about getting married every time they were on TV, I couldn't help thinking that she got pregnant deliberately to finally corner him into it.  A very old-fashioned tactic that obviously still works. This time, anyway.

I think if she were that desperate to get married, and was willing to get pregnant to seal the deal, she wouldn't have waited 7 years to do it.   Plus, didn't they announce their marriage plans on last year's show, before she got pregnant?

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Newbietunes said:

I think if she were that desperate to get married, and was willing to get pregnant to seal the deal, she wouldn't have waited 7 years to do it.   Plus, didn't they announce their marriage plans on last year's show, before she got pregnant?

Yes.  J&J were already engaged and had set a date; when Jordan found out she was pregnant, though, timetables got accelerated.

[JudyObscure]

11 hours ago, wings707 said:

Christy Brinkley named her daughter Sailor and she has been in the news lately

Ah. Everything is made clear.  I gave into my husband's choice of an unusual name for my son and I've seen what a pain in the neck it can be for a person.  At least Sailor would have had company in Kindergaarten.

[mojoween]

I just can't get over the fact that to me Sailor screams boy, not girl.

[Dilandau]

If I gave my kid the name Sailor, I would give her the middle name Moon.

[Skycatcher]

It occurs to me that Jame's GB speech was probably taped before he and Nat had the blow up.  It was all lovey dovey.  I was a bit disappointed because I expected - hoped for actually,  some retaliatory snark on his part.  I wonder how different it might have been had it been taped after the blow up.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Skycatcher

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, Skycatcher said:

It occurs to me that Jame's GB speech was probably taped before he and Nat had the blow up.  It was all lovey dovey.  I was a bit disappointed because I expected - hoped for actually,  some retaliatory snark on his part.  I wonder how different it might have been had it been taped after the blow up.

I think it would have been the same since James is going for that AFP money. 

[goofygirl]

James is an idiot.  We can all see that now.  Clearly, if he wins AFP $$, what little gameplay he's displayed was worth it.  I kinda want screechy Nicole to go on out the door next week. Just to piss her off.  Could be old Mr. Aggie Corey (gig'em!) will vote her out just to give himself a better chance of winning. Who knows?? I'm rooting for Victor.

[jumper sage]

In Nat's last chance speech she mentions her family and their help in realizing her life long dream then she says she is glad to play a game she didn't know, or something like that.  Well which is it?

19 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I agree.  I didn't like that side of James I saw last night.  That's the side that moved away from his daughter to avoid the mother.  I mean he not only said terrible things, he ran to the rest and allowed them to comfort him in agreement with how horrible Natalie is.   And Nicole just bugs.  She's so horrified at the nasty game play she's seen from Natalie?  What would those things be, Nicole?  How about Natalie protecting you and your moron during her HOH, and then you and your moron flipping on Natalie/James because James said that Natalie wished they could have saved Victor.  Did they cast a vote for your precious moron, Nicole.  No.  You're an idiot.

I agree completely. 

[Blissfool]

59 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

In Nat's last chance speech she mentions her family and their help in realizing her life long dream then she says she is glad to play a game she didn't know, or something like that.  Well which is it?

Maybe it's her life long dream of being on TV?

[Cosmocrush]

On 9/8/2016 at 7:32 PM, zibnchy said:

I thought Paulie looked especially unattractive tonight but I can't put my finger just exactly why.

I think it's his hair.  He got that awful Paul haircut in the house and now it's grown out and looks even worse if that's possible. 

On 9/8/2016 at 8:08 PM, North of Eden said:

DaVonne....oh she is priceless...throwing shade on Paulie for naming Corey as his number one while Zakiya stands there and takes yet another round of humiliation.

I truly believe CBS will find some way to repurpose DaVonne....she is simply gold and I don't believe they would let her fade back into obscurity. If there is an All Stars she is lock.

I agree and I hope you are right about CBS!

6 hours ago, jumper sage said:

In Nat's last chance speech she mentions her family and their help in realizing her life long dream then she says she is glad to play a game she didn't know, or something like that.  Well which is it?

 

5 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Maybe it's her life long dream of being on TV?

Yes, I think the dream was of being on TV. At one point she said she had also applied for The Bachelor (I can't remember if she was accepted or not) and ended up choosing BB.  She said BB sounded like Real World with a kitchen, lol 

[jumper sage]

6 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Maybe it's her life long dream of being on TV?

I think you might be right.

[PreBabylonia]

On 9/9/2016 at 7:09 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Believe it or not, Sailor/Saylor is a very trendy name right now.  Several celebrities have daughters with this name, but all I can come up with off the top of my head - Christie Brinkley, Kristin Cavallari, and Bristol Palin.

I'm kind of embarrassed to admit this, but I saw the Marriage Boot Camp season that included Jeff and Jordan.  I thought that Jeff clearly adored Jordan and was quite open about it.  Jordan, on the other hand, had a more difficult time expressing her feelings and concerns.  She seemed like the type who had been raised to be sweet and pretty, and just go along to keep the peace.  He seems to be patient with her when she's having a hard time admitting to any difficulties they may have, and didn't try to talk over her or speak for her.

Well, that's annoying. I had long planned for the protagonist of my first  latest novel to be called Sailor. Mostly because I thought that was the name of a DJ I was listening to, and thought it was a great, unusual name. (Her name turned out to be Taylor, after all). I do agree that it becomes a tough name to say without stumbling when paired with Jeff's surname.

For a different perspective on the two marriages, watch the two couples on their respective Amazing Race seasons. I have no doubt that they each love their partner in a different way, but the pairing of J & J is far more healthy than Brenchel. I don't think Jordan is dumb as much as she is scatter brained and lacked education/experience in so many areas. It is more than compensated for I believe, by her innate sweetness. She just seems to be a very loving and trusting person. Rachel and Brendon however, seem completely dysfunctional both in how they relate to other people and with each other.  Jeff respects Jordan I feel, and finds her frequent gaffes amusing. But Rachel bounces between fawning over her husband and accusing him of completely imaginary crimes, such as blaming her for things going wrong and yelling at her when he is actually calm, quiet and trying to keep her focused. Or when things are going well for her, she is smug and gloating in the faces of her rivals. That poor child of theirs. Not only is she saddled with the idiotic moniker of Adora Borealis, but she is bound to become a neurotic mess. Not only will she have to listen to some pretty inane and loud arguments, her classmates and teammate's parents will cringe whenever the family appears at their events.