The Terminator Saga: No Fate But What We Make At The Box Office

[Luckylyn]

I love the first two films.   The third film was flawed, but I still liked it.   T3's ending really resonated.  TS was just okay.  T5 was a mess.   I think it was a mistake to bring Arnold back because T3 would have worked better if it had been John and Kate on their own fighting to survive the new terminator.   It would have paralleled the first film in some key ways.   I think the franchise's dependence on Arnold is a problem.  Arnold was never the only reason the first two films succeed.   What was done with Arnold in T2 worked for Sarah and John's development as characters but after T2 Arnold's continued presence in these films seem so contrived.    'It was always Sarah, John and humanity's struggle against the machines that for me made the films work.  I think Sarah going from innocent to warrior is one of the most interesting character evolutions on film.  She was so vulnerable in T1 and so deadly in T2.  It made perfect sense because of what she'd been through and because of the responsibility on her shoulders to raise John with the skills to save everyone.

T3's ending was logical.  You can destroy the hardware, but software is way more invasive.  You can't just blow it up.  It's everywhere thanks to wireless internet and how computers are so much a part of our lives. One thing that is interesting  in the Terminator series including the Sarah Connor Chronicles that was that the efforts to prevent Judgement day seemed to making the future outcome worse instead of better.  I don't think judgement day realistically could ever be stopped.  Even if you stopped one company from developing Skynet another company would probably develop the same tech elsewhere at some point.  The only way to every stop it would be to eliminate all tech with something like an EMP which if used would save the world from Skynet but put the world back into the dark ages causing all sorts of suffering.  We are too dependent on modern tech to ever be prepared for an abrupt loss of it all over the world.  A movie about the effort to stopping Judgement Day causing worse consequences and characters having to go back in time to ensure that Sarah's and John's efforts to stop Judgement day is blocked could be an interesting plot.

 I think stopping judgement day wasn't likely and so the key is humanity's survival after and John's growing into the leader  that ultimately beats the machines. John's knowledge of what is to come the the training he was raised with because of Sarah gave him a tremendous advantage.  The effort to getting a head start preparing for the battle to come (like stocking up on weapons, medical supplies, recruiting skilled people, etc) should have gotten more attention.   

There's an interesting critic of Kyle Reese.  He was a great character and his love story with Sarah is one of my all time favorites.  Micheal was perfectly cast.   I bought him as a solider and also in that moment when he's so vulnerable in admitting his love for Sarah.  The parallels between Kyle and the Terminator  and how ruthless and robotic Kyle could be really showcase how much Kyle had been through growing up after Judgement Day.

It was interesting to find out that Arnold had wanted the Kyle Reese role.  The video makes a fascinating observation of how Arnold's continued presence in the series allows him to be in that hero/father role that was Kyle's. 

[Perfect Xero]

I think the ultimate problem with the Terminator Saga is that T2 should be the end of it. Everything after it has just felt like an artificial cash grab to me. Once the basic premise is that nothing they do can actually stop Skynet and will just, ultimately, make it stronger and lead to it having even more advanced Terminators so they can keep making more movies, then what's the point?

[Luckylyn]

31 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

I think the ultimate problem with the Terminator Saga is that T2 should be the end of it. Everything after it has just felt like an artificial cash grab to me. Once the basic premise is that nothing they do can actually stop Skynet and will just, ultimately, make it stronger and lead to it having even more advanced Terminators so they can keep making more movies, then what's the point?

I think it's realistic that T2 wouldn't be the end because the progress of technology in general is hard to stop.  They stopped one company from developing Skynet but other companies could easily be working on the same type of technology.  I just don't buy that destroying one company is enough to stop the creation of a sentient AI.   So I think there was room for sequels but that the sequels we got weren't executed well.   The right story could continue the saga quite well. 

[Perfect Xero]

I think that while an AI would come about eventually, I would think that another company or lead scientist might, at the least, be better at building an AI that wouldn't instantly decide to kill all the humans the moment it came online. Finch on Person of Interest, for example, was keenly aware that a non-benevolent AI could be dangerous to humanity and took measures to ensure that. If the only road is Humanity creates AI/AI becomes Skynet/Skynet instantly turns on humanity because lol!Technology and the only possible solution is to save humanity is to simply wipe out all technology, then what's the point?

TSCC was more interesting than any of the movie sequels to me, as John Henry presented an alternative possibility to all AI roads leading to Skynet.

[magdalene]

21 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

SCC was more interesting than any of the movie sequels to me, as John Henry presented an alternative possibility to all AI roads leading to Skynet.

Nods.  I really only love the first movie and the too soon canceled TV series.  None of the other movies grab me at all and some are pretty crappy.

Edited September 3, 2016 by magdalene

[Luckylyn]

That's a good point that a sentient AI does not automatically have to lead to humanity's destruction.  T2 delaying Judgement Day could have given people time to create other AIs that are more inclined to support humanity.  Skynet doesn't have to be the only AI that gets created.  The John Henry subplot on The SCC had a lot of potential.  I don't think they'd be able to stop the creation of an AI but could affect whether the AI is geared to aid or destroy humanity.  They should have made Kate someone who works in the tech industry involved in creating something similar to Skynet instead of a vet.  John would have had a "Let's destroy all potential AIs just in case" mentality while Kate would argue that an AI could be made that would help save humanity rather than doom it.  They would meet when John shows up to blow up her lab but then a terminator shows up to kill Kate. They could have had a terminator targeting Kate because she was on the verge of making an AI that could defeat Skynet and save everyone. That could have been a fascinating conflict where John's distrusts the tech while Kate sees how it can be used and Skynet would have to deal with competition from a similar kind of tech.   John and Kate would go from opponents to allies to lovers while on the run from the terminator. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

11 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

I think the ultimate problem with the Terminator Saga is that T2 should be the end of it. Everything after it has just felt like an artificial cash grab to me. Once the basic premise is that nothing they do can actually stop Skynet and will just, ultimately, make it stronger and lead to it having even more advanced Terminators so they can keep making more movies, then what's the point?

Admittedly, I'm biased because IMO Nick Stahl did such a good job as Adult!John in the third movie - the fucked-up loser who has been drifting since his mother's death finally confronting a destiny that he's been fleeing from really affected me emotionally, and while Rise of the Machines ends with the beginning of the destruction, it also brings about John's acceptance, the realization that he can do what Sarah and the long-dead Kyle meant for him to do. The sequels are lower quality than the first two, obviously, but Machines was what turned John into the leader he was meant to become.

[benteen]

I liked SCC but hated Emo John (hated wimpy T3 John too).  Love Lena Headey but didn't care for wishy-washy Sarah.  It was freakin Brian Austin Green that gave that show a kick in the ass when he joined it.

[Luckylyn]

I liked John in SCC and T3.  I felt like I understood where he was coming from.  I always remember that flashback in SCC when Sarah is tucking John in as a child and instead of a teddy bear he sleeps with a gun.  Knowing since you were a child that people wanted you dead and that the fate of humanity is on your shoulders is traumatic.  John's future was decided before he was even conceived, and so much pressure is on his shoulders.   If he fails, humanity as a whole is extinct.  He can't just live in the present and be a kid.   His whole life is about either about being hunted, preventing Judgement Day, or saving what's left of humanity if stopping Judgement Day fails.

Brian Austin Green was fantastic as Kyle Reece's brother.   I totally bought him as a ruthless solider who still did have a heart he tried to bury to survive.  The scene where he watches terminator Cameron perform ballet and is shaken and horrified by her ability to mimic humanity was quite effective.   One thing Sarah/Derek shared was their discomfort over Cameron and her usefulness to protect John vs. the danger of John trusting and depending on her too much.

The tension between Derek and Sarah over who should influence John was really compelling to watch.  There was so much conflict between them, but they are both so alike in how battle hardened they were.  I remember someone describing the Sarah/Derek dynamic like they were exes struggling to be co-parents to their kid.   They had wonderful chemistry but were never ever romantic.  That moment where they are at Kyle's grave and Derek resents Sarah's refusal to fully trust him was frustrating but understandable because she had good reasons for being hyper protective of John.  The scene where Derek takes John to the park and John realizes the boys playing in front of him is Derek and little Kyle was one of my all time favorite tv moments.  I'm sad that Derek was never included in the films.

And that scene where Derek tells John that "We all die for you" really had an impact.  So much weight is on John's shoulders since he was a child. 

I like that John isn't perfect, that he has some resentments for what his life has been, that the pressure strains him, and that he has a learning curve.  He has to grow into being the Icon John Connor and that doesn't happen overnight.  

I sympathized with Sarah being confronted with the possibility of death from cancer which is something she couldn't fight her way out of.  Her worry about leaving John and who would be there for him once she was gone was well done.  Her distrust of everyone and the tension between being John's mother/military trainer was understandable.  She really struggled with the idea of stepping back and letting John lead.  Although John at times didn't seem ready, Sarah trying to  control him would delay him being ready to lead.  She  could be his greatest helper or his greatest obstacle to gaining leadership because she wouldn't let go of the reins.  He had to stand on his own at some point which is why the final episode separating them made sense.  John needed to be dropped into the deep end without knowing Sarah would always be there to charge in if he needed help in order to become the leader he needed to be.  Lena Heady was a great choice to play Sarah.

I really miss SCC.  I think there was so much story to tell if done right and that SCC got it more right than wrong.  The conflict over who thought technology could be helpful and those who were anti tech through the Jesse story was promising even though I thought Jesse's plan was idiotic.   Plus the whole John Henry thing and the concept of an AI who is anti Skynet was a worth exploring.   

Also the episode Allison From Palmdale might be the best work Summer Glau ever did.

[BooBear]

On 9/3/2016 at 3:46 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Admittedly, I'm biased because IMO Nick Stahl did such a good job as Adult!John in the third movie - the fucked-up loser who has been drifting since his mother's death finally confronting a destiny that he's been fleeing from really affected me emotionally, and while Rise of the Machines ends with the beginning of the destruction, it also brings about John's acceptance, the realization that he can do what Sarah and the long-dead Kyle meant for him to do. The sequels are lower quality than the first two, obviously, but Machines was what turned John into the leader he was meant to become.

I always liked T3 the best because of that. I mistakenly saw T3 after the movie I wanted to see what sold out so I hadn't wanted to see it. But I was just captivated by the portrait and it seemed to make the most sense to me how John would be. I didn't love his "love interest" but I liked the entire that almost the entire movie was an exercise in John accepting his role. 

But for my money the end was an emotional kick in the gut. Didn't see it coming. But was happy it did. I didn't love T2 becuase I never bought that skynet would not happen. So it seemed like the characters shouldn't have thought that either.   So when it happened anyway at the end of T3 and perhaps the characters nievete about it happening  -- allowed it to happen -- it seemed like the way it was supposed to be. 

[revbfc]

I'll join in with the love for T3.  A totally underrated movie.  Nick Stahl and the ending really made it great.

[azshadowwalker]

Finally saw the Genisys mess on TV today. Wow, did that piss me off. Like Star Trek, the alternative time line thing is the most infuriating. They throw out important elements of the universe so they can do a completely unrelated story  while clinging to the built-in audience of the franchise. The original story was compelling. This? Was boring as hell. 

As for the actors, what horrible, dry performances. That's not Kyle. That "Sarah" is wooden and makes me happy that I don't watch Game of Thrones. Schwarzenegger was never an actor, and this requires far too much talking from him. 

I need to find a stream of the original, and wipe this dreck from my mind. 

[benteen]

Lena is a LOT better on Game of Thrones than she ever was on Sarah Connor.  Like, loads better and she's been nominated for an Emmy at least twice.

[xaxat]

On 10/12/2016 at 8:38 AM, benteen said:

Lena is a LOT better on Game of Thrones than she ever was on Sarah Connor.  Like, loads better and she's been nominated for an Emmy at least twice.

I thought Lena was great in Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Her GOT castmate Emilia Clarke, not so good in Genysis.

[millennium]

I generally don't like the Terminator movies.   Never was an Arnold fan, couldn't stand Edward Furlong, nothing remotely attractive or sympathetic about Linda Hamilton, and so on.

When the SCC turned up on Hulu or Netflix (or wherever I saw it) I watched only because I had already binged everything else.   Have to admit, it took me by surprise.   I liked it a lot.   Summer Glau was great.  I second everybody else's praise of Bryan Austin Greene.  And there were special touches that blew me away: the destruction sequence with Johnny Cash's "When the Man Comes Around" (first time I heard that song) and even Shirley freaking Manson as a terminator.   The show was canceled way too soon.

[supposebly]

On 10/12/2016 at 6:38 AM, benteen said:

Lena is a LOT better on Game of Thrones than she ever was on Sarah Connor.  Like, loads better and she's been nominated for an Emmy at least twice.

I love her in both. And the Sarah Connor Chronicles wins hands down over all the movies in my opinion. While I like Linda Hamilton's take a lot too, for me anything that lacks Schwarzenegger is already better in my head. Quips and an accent do not a character make in my opinion. I think T2 still works today not because of him but despite of him.

It's too bad this latest movie doesn't spend more time on the characters in order to make the umpteenth action movie where character development takes somewhat of a backseat. Or maybe I missed something because the acting and characters were so incredibly bland. I just don't remember much. 

For me, there are a lot of interesting stories that a TV show can explore but if you make a movie, there are two interesting stories in this franchise. Sarah Connor's development and John's development along with her. What happened to uncle Terminator is not one of them.

The terminators are the least interesting. I think that's what the Christian Bale movie got very wrong. Unless they start explaining better why Future John trusts a terminator so much. The TV show gave us glimpses how that could happen but then, it got canceled. I'm still bitter about that.

[Luckylyn]

14 minutes ago, supposebly said:

For me, there are a lot of interesting stories that a TV show can explore but if you make a movie, there are two interesting stories in this franchise. Sarah Connor's development and John's development along with her. What happened to uncle Terminator is not one of them.

The terminators are the least interesting. I think that's what the Christian Bale movie got very wrong. Unless they start explaining better why Future John trusts a terminator so much. The TV show gave us glimpses how that could happen but then, it got canceled. I'm still bitter about that.

That's how I view it too.  The story of how Sarah adapted and trained her son for the coming war and John's evolution as a leader are the most interesting stories.  The Terminator making quips is not essential.  I will say Cameron on SCC was interesting and her dynamic with John really had some fascinating moments.  She was his protector but could be intensely manipulative.  There was that episode when John brought his girlfriend over and later Cameron goes in his room wearing something skimpy, gets into bed with him,  then gives him a huge guilt trip about how he's bringing danger into his girlfriend's life, and hints at how much the future version of him trusts her.  John was weary and drawn to her simultaneously. 

The Shirley Manson and John Henry plot was a new way to view the AI side of the story.   I wish the movies had taken up that story.

[supposebly]

2 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

She was his protector but could be intensely manipulative.  There was that episode when John brought his girlfriend over and later Cameron goes in his room wearing something skimpy, gets into bed with him,  then gives him a huge guilt trip about how he's bringing danger into his girlfriend's life, and hints at how much the future version of him trusts her.  John was weary and drawn to her simultaneously.

I loved that about their relationship. I came to the Terminator movies through the Sarah Connor Chronicles. I remember seeing the first one and what I remembered most was the terminator at the end, flesh burnt off, crawling out of some contraption. I barely remembered Sarah despite her memorable terrible hair.

So I never watched TS2 until I saw the SCC. So, Arnie quipping at young John Connor did not make any impression on me. I only got interested because SCC showed me how this could be about an interesting female character that was tasked to get her son ready for some future war. Some discussions about Linda Hamilton's portrayal on TWOP made me check it out. And it's a very courageous portrayal. So, Lena Headey is less out there but it's also coming from a different place.

That is what is compelling for me. Not Kyle who comes to save her to become John's father. Not even John except in relation to her. It upended the standard, woman-becomes-reason-for-man-to-act (either by getting fridged or being a new love interest) standard action movie plot at the time. John became her reason, not the other way round. And not in a sacrificing Holy Mother kind of way. More like a badass mother kind of way.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And someone who isn't me said it, but Sarah isn't particularly likable in the second movie. Not without reason, mind - losing the man she'd loved for such a short time, then having to raise her son by herself while getting him ready for a war no one else - including John - really believes will happen, then getting chucked into the loony bin and being marked as crazy for insisting that everything she says is true is ample reason for her to no longer be the uncertain, hesitant version of herself we saw in the first film. But she lacked any sort of parental bond with John, at least in the way others would think of her as being parental. She scolds him sharply for trying to break her out of the hospital, and while she checks to make sure he isn't hurt before she starts snapping at him, its the Terminator who realizes that John is crying. Hell, Sarah doesn't even turn around in her seat when the cyborg makes note of it, I don't think. 

Personally, I enjoy that Sarah is combative and abrasive, just like I enjoy the screwed up adult that John becomes after she's gone. Because as harsh as she seems, that was what she was afraid of, that without her, he would never be able to lead the resistance humanity would  need one day. And he almost wasn't able to.

[Raja]

5 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

That's how I view it too.  The story of how Sarah adapted and trained her son for the coming war and John's evolution as a leader are the most interesting stories.  The Terminator making quips is not essential.  I will say Cameron on SCC was interesting and her dynamic with John really had some fascinating moments.  She was his protector but could be intensely manipulative.  There was that episode when John brought his girlfriend over and later Cameron goes in his room wearing something skimpy, gets into bed with him,  then gives him a huge guilt trip about how he's bringing danger into his girlfriend's life, and hints at how much the future version of him trusts her.  John was weary and drawn to her simultaneously. 

 

The Shirley Manson and John Henry plot was a new way to view the AI side of the story.   I wish the movies had taken up that story.

When John went through with Terminator  Catherine Weaver and knowing it was the series finale what I wanted most was for Terminator Salvation to pick up at that point only we got a world were somehow humans had 70 year old helicopters and 60 year old fighter jets still flying somehow.

[ShadowHunter]

James Cameron bought the rights back to the series. It seems he will produce  and conclude the series along with 'Deadpool' Director Tim Miller.  I have some hope since James will be back.

The first movie holds a special place in my heart. I saw it when I  was 14 and when Kyle tells Sarah about how he came across time for her that was so beautiful to me.  It was frankly more romantic to me then some romance movies or relationships claim to be.

[Luckylyn]

10 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

James Cameron bought the rights back to the series. It seems he will produce  and conclude the series along with 'Deadpool' Director Tim Miller.  I have some hope since James will be back.

The first movie holds a special place in my heart. I saw it when I  was 14 and when Kyle tells Sarah about how he came across time for her that was so beautiful to me.  It was frankly more romantic to me then some romance movies or relationships claim to be.

This news makes me happy.  James really created something wonderful and thought provoking with the first two movies.  And I agree that Kyle's "I came across time for you" speech is one of the most romantic scenes on film.  It was really touching how he talked about wondering what Sarah was thinking in the picture John gave him and finding out at the end she was thinking of Kyle.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Luckylyn

[xaxat]

NO.MORE.SCHWARZENEGGER!

He was great in the first three, but it's time to move on.

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

NO.MORE.SCHWARZENEGGER!

He was great in the first three, but it's time to move on.

The franchise's efforts to force him into the story post Terminator 2 were mistakes.   He was never the draw for me.  It was always Sarah and John's journey that were compelling.

[ShadowHunter]

I echo the Schwarzenegger opinion he is not needed anymore. Though I cant imagine James not giving him something.

Even though I know they wont be back I would still like to say that I don't want  to see Jai Courtney, Christian Bale, and Emilia Clarke either.

[ribboninthesky1]

What is there to conclude, though? Maybe things could have been salvaged after Terminator 3, but the idiom"beating a dead horse" describes this franchise to a tee. Plus, unless Linda Hamilton returns as Sarah, I don't have much interest.  I can't see him doing that. 

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Plus, unless Linda Hamilton returns as Sarah, I don't have much interest.  I can't see him doing that. 

While I agree, I don't see it happening ?. Sad because I loved her turn as Sarah in both movies. 

[Joe]

2 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

What is there to conclude, though? Maybe things could have been salvaged after Terminator 3, but the idiom"beating a dead horse" describes this franchise to a tee. Plus, unless Linda Hamilton returns as Sarah, I don't have much interest.  I can't see him doing that. 

She was married to Cameron for a while, and subsequently swore off having anything to do with him or his creations. That's why she wasn't in T3. So unless she changes her position, she won't come back.

[benteen]

Cameron returning might be the only thing capable of saving this sad, old series.

[dwmarch]

On 1/20/2017 at 8:36 PM, ShadowHunter said:

James Cameron bought the rights back to the series. It seems he will produce  and conclude the series along with 'Deadpool' Director Tim Miller.  I have some hope since James will be back.

The first movie holds a special place in my heart. I saw it when I  was 14 and when Kyle tells Sarah about how he came across time for her that was so beautiful to me.  It was frankly more romantic to me then some romance movies or relationships claim to be.

Gunnery Sgt. Hartman was watching me when I found out this news and he commented "Jesus H. Christ, I think you've got a hard-on!" While there are certain charms to all three non-Cameron Terminator flicks, having him come back to the franchise could quite possibly be the best thing ever. Agreed on not needing Arnie for future installments; the TV show gave us a few memorable Terminators like Cromartie, Myron Stark and of course Cameron.

There are many directions a Terminator story could go in, particularly since each movie seems to represent a different timeline and Genisys established that Terminators will happily hop from one timeline to another if given the chance. But Cameron started it all so I trust him to know where to finish it. And if Tim Miller is involved I can't help but wonder how a Terminator will react to being called a "chrome cock-gobbler".

Edited January 23, 2017 by dwmarch

[Danny Franks]

On 23/01/2017 at 4:39 AM, benteen said:

Cameron returning might be the only thing capable of saving this sad, old series.

I thought you meant Cameron Phillips, from the Sarah Connor Chronicles, then, and I was going to agree with you.

Honestly I think James Cameron will just doom us to more crappy, franchise diluting movies. The original idea was quite limited, in scope. How many times can you tell the story of a robot coming back in time to kill someone, and make it good (three times seems to be the answer so far, if you include the aforementioned TV show). Trying to move beyond that original concept has been a complete failure.

[supposebly]

For me, the best "adaptation", whatever was the TV show The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It put the characters and their story/relationships in focus that I find the most interesting and since this won't be rebooted with the same actors, I don't think I'm very interested in what Cameron has to say about them at this point.

Apologies for the Hamilton fans (and I do like her take too) but Lena Headey is my definite Sarah and Summer Glau is my favorite terminator. Together with Robert Patrick and Garret Dillahunt who killed as Cromartie and John Henry.

And Thomas Dekker as John didn't suck either. I think they and Terminator 2 had the best material to work with and it shows.

I don't really see what is there to conclude. The conclusion is that John saves the world somehow. The world ended, John needs to save it. Obviously, Sarah couldn't prevent it. How the future and the past influence each other is interesting. The "conclusion", not so much.

[ShadowHunter]

4 hours ago, supposebly said:

For me, the best "adaptation", whatever was the TV show The Sarah Connor Chronicles. It put the characters and their story/relationships in focus that I find the most interesting and since this won't be rebooted with the same actors, I don't think I'm very interested in what Cameron has to say about them at this point.

Apologies for the Hamilton fans (and I do like her take too) but Lena Headey is my definite Sarah and Summer Glau is my favorite terminator. Together with Robert Patrick and Garret Dillahunt who killed as Cromartie and John Henry.

And Thomas Dekker as John didn't suck either. I think they and Terminator 2 had the best material to work with and it shows.

I don't really see what is there to conclude. The conclusion is that John saves the world somehow. The world ended, John needs to save it. Obviously, Sarah couldn't prevent it. How the future and the past influence each other is interesting. The "conclusion", not so much.

I enjoyed the TV series and was sad when it was cancelled. Yes Lena was very good though for me Linda Hamilton remains the #1 Sarah Connor.  I was surprised at how much I liked Brian Austin Green.  I use to watch and love General Hospital long ago before it was destroyed by machines ( Jason, Sonny, Carly and Guza) so to see Jonathan Jackson as Kyle and the character was a nice treat. 

That was also one of the few things I liked about Terminator Salvation seeing the character of Kyle Reese I loved him.  I thought Anton Yelchin did a good job I could see some of Michael Biehn as Kyle in him.

[xaxat]

I've been on a Johnny Cash kick, so I'll use that as an excuse to post one of my most memorable music moments on TV. (Right up there with "In the Air Tonight"/Miami Vice)

[Joe]

So there's re-release of T2 coming. However, look at that picture. It's just too bright, it looks unnatural. It reminds me of the Star Wars special editions and prequels. Not sure I'm going to see this.

[ribboninthesky1]

I just watched it on Hulu a week or so ago.  Still a great movie, and I'll always believe it should have ended there.  The others to follow weren't awful, but they got too convoluted. Time travel is a tricky subject anyway, and Cameron's films managed to keep it relatively simple. Plus, Linda Hamilton!

In any case, I doubt I'll pay to see it in theaters again.  

[MrsR]

The post T2  film franchise fuck up of the series pissed me off more than whiny Anikain Skywalker.

 

I loved, loved, loved the series though. EXCELLENT cast. Well defined new characters.

Oh yeah there were a few weeks in season 2 when I bitched and moaned about the seemingly tangential episodes and especially about John's girlfriend but they made all that pay off! 

I loved all the moral dilemmas they deal with. How many people have to die now to save even more people in the future and which ones have to go. 

They loved Garrett Dillahunt so much he played 4 characters!!

I cried for Andy Good/Billy Wisher and dropped my jaw at John Henry.

I know James Cameron had mad respect for the TV show, I hope some of it is incorporated in future projects.

Best season finale of a show ever!

[xaxat]

Well crap. Arnold Schwarzenegger Will Reteam With James Cameron for the Next Terminator Movie.

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

Well crap. Arnold Schwarzenegger Will Reteam With James Cameron for the Next Terminator Movie.

Why!  The insistence in clinging to Arnold when he's the least interesting aspect baffles me.  There was interesting things to explore about John and his Daddy issues in T2 but taking it beyond that is so forced.  His end should have been T2.   The Sarah Connor Chronicles showed there was a ton of story to tell without relying on Arnold's Terminator.   I'd rather see a Terminator like manipulative Cameron or  anti-Skynet Shirley Mason in particular. Do we really need Arnold making lame quips again?   He's gone from scary to comic relief, and it doesn't help the franchise to make him a focal point.

 I was so happy to find out that James Cameron was at the helm again but this news makes me concerned.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Luckylyn

[ribboninthesky1]

According to comments in that article, Cameron had a fair share of praise for Genisys (which, to be fair, the plot wasn't the problem as much as all of the main characters were totally miscast).  So, I don't have much faith.  I really can't understand why the film franchise won't die already.  

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Why!  The insistence in clinging to Arnold when he's the least interesting aspect baffles me.  There was interesting things to explore about John and his Daddy issues in T2 but taking it beyond that is so forced.  His end should have been T2.  

I know that the decision to have Sarah not be in the third movie was because Linda Hamilton didn't want to work with Cameron again, but unless they do a similar thing that happened with Nick Stahl's John, I'm not sure what the point even is of having Arnold around.  It's Sarah's story first, John's second, with Kyle as the long-absent linchpin who hovers like a ghost over both of them. What's the point of having the original cyborg back, if that's what this means?

[supposebly]

That's just stupid. Who is actually interested in quipping Uncle Arnold Terminator at this point? T2 concluded his story, what little story there was.

7 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

It's Sarah's story first, John's second, with Kyle as the long-absent linchpin who hovers like a ghost over both of them.

Well said.

[xaxat]

7 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

 I really can't understand why the film franchise won't die already.  

While the franchise box office is moribund in the US, I suspect that it's still increasing globally. Genesis Genysis Genisys did a solid $350 million overseas and it's China BO was bigger than the US'.

[ribboninthesky1]

Ah! Didn't realize the last one did so well overseas. 

[dwmarch]

15 hours ago, Luckylyn said:

Why!  The insistence in clinging to Arnold when he's the least interesting aspect baffles me. The Sarah Connor Chronicles showed there was a ton of story to tell without relying on Arnold's Terminator.

Agreed, there were some great Terminators on the show, none of whom played the role anything like Arnie. Cromartie of course. Myron Stark, the Terminator who accidentally teleported to the roaring twenties and had to bootstrap an assassination attempt because he accidentally killed the architect of the building where the assassination was supposed to happen... so he ended up starting a construction company and building the place himself! (One of my favorite scenes of all time was the reporter marveling at how Stark would be right there alongside his multi-ethnic work force, completely ignoring the racial politics of the day. He might be out to exterminate the human race but he's not going to be a dick about it!) Cameron and Weaver were obviously memorable and who can't love a T-1000 that lets someone piss on it before termination? It was easy to imagine that the Bedell Terminator came out of the same factory as Arnie's model 101, with Bedell-T being the 106 or something. The first movie declared that the T-600s were easy to spot because of their rubber skin. Well, the T-800s would be equally easy to spot if they were all hulking Austrian bodybuilders who dress from head to toe in black leather. I loved how the show would put Terminators in situations where they actually were doing infiltration work: Cromartie as a cop, Weaver as a corporate CEO, Cameron as a pool hustler, etc. Long story short, there's more to Terminators than just Arnie (and FWIW the movies have shown us this to a degree as well, with Robert Patrick's T-1000 being the most memorable example. I also personally enjoyed the performances of Kristanna Loken and Sam Worthington although I know they aren't everyone's cup of liquid metal). The TV series Designated Survivor has had a couple of actors playing mooks who could easily turn their cold menace into the laser stare of a Terminator. I'd much rather see new talent than a T-800 that bitches about the Terminator equivalent of arthritis!

15 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

According to comments in that article, Cameron had a fair share of praise for Genisys (which, to be fair, the plot wasn't the problem as much as all of the main characters were totally miscast).  So, I don't have much faith.  I really can't understand why the film franchise won't die already.  

The thing I liked the most about Genisys was the scale of it. We finally get to see that assault on Skynet, a great big battle with all kinds of stuff flying in all directions. We get to see that there are two Skynets: the Big Dumb Skynet that almost won the war and Sophisticated Skynet that wants to bootstrap itself to be even more powerful as Judgment Day gets pushed back a few years. This continues a trend seen in the movies where each "victory" just made Skynet stronger. I think there are still some good stories to tell in this universe, with conflicts between various Skynet versions and some plucky heroes caught in the middle. It doesn't require Arnie or Linda Hamilton or any of the seven or eight John Connors. The Terminator series could definitely do a Rogue One type of story and make it great. Let's hope (James) Cameron feels the same way.

[xaxat]

In a recent interview James Cameron said he wanted to make a new Terminator trilogy.  I hope that the reference to "reinventing" the franchise means that he is moving beyond Arnold.

However, given his involvement in Avatar and his . . . deliberative. . . working style I wonder if we will see this before 2030. (Given the progress in AI, Skynet itself might get a writing credit by then.)

[methodwriter85]

I mean, no offense...but Arnold is in his 70's now. They really need to let it go. 

[BetterButter]

Linda Hamilton Set to Return to 'Terminator' Franchise

[ShadowHunter]

I am thrilled Linda is returning. When I saw Terminator trending I thought it was something stupid. Happy it was news I love.

The response has been positive so far.

[xaxat]

But Arnold is coming back as well. 

I have mixed feelings about this news.