All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[junienmomo]

Sunflower, great insights. I would have preferred a shorter marriage for Chris and Lorelai too. Waste of episodes IMO. 

Part of the destruction of Luke's character was necessary. Classical character development follows a path of the character from their "old world" into their "new world," with the new world being defined by a call to action that occurs somewhere in the story. 

 

For Luke, his old world was the sullen diner owner, all in all pretty satisfied with his life. He had 2 calls to action that I observed:

1. The horoscope (pre-show start), a call to get to know Lorelai
2. Taylor's constant imploring for him to be more active in the community activities

He accepted the first, but rebelled against the second until the Twickham House. Then he pretended to be a bigger part of the community, but didn't really join the way Taylor wanted him to. 

We all know what happened to the first call - he changed enough to ask her out, their relationship flourished and failed, but those changes stayed. 

In S7, I see that he first was mourning his loss of Lorelai and for me his darkest moment post-Lorelai was when Liz and TJ spent the night and talked about him while he overheard. That segment symbolized the change he chose to make to move forward. 

After that, he grew more open to other people and reached out more. After he'd repaired his friendship with Lorelai, he even had a moment when I think he was looking forward to the summer with her (after the karaoke and the cancelled trip with his daughter). 

Look at ep22 again. The change is shown most clearly here. He is Happy Luke, outgoing, friendly to the community members, joking and enjoying being closer to a traditional member of the SH community. He even calls and essentially runs a Town Meeting.

He did maintain his banter with Lorelai, which I agree with you is critical to his character, but the Happy Luke is for me a natural growth path for him and necessary for his story arc. 

Totally agree with you about him being surrounded by the wrong people for most of S7.

I think the edge was really taken away with the daughter and Lorelai's ultimatum/sleeping with Chris. While that carried into S7, I blame it primarily on S6. 

I still haven't decided if the daughter storyline was a call to action, or just a roadblock to the call to be with Lorelai. Since I hate that storyline like you, I'm choosing for roadblock.

 

In my post-S7 world, he gets his rants back, but he also takes his place (not the place Taylor thinks he should have) in leading the SH community. And he gets Lorelai, of course. So he fulfills both of his calls to action. 

[TyranAmiros]

Personally, I hope that Luke and Lorelai never did get together again because as much as I like the two of them as friends, I find them toxic in a relationship.  They seem to have a complete inability to be honest with each other about, whether it's Luke not telling Lorelai about April or Lorelai hiding her time spent with Christopher.  And then there's Lorelai's parents' world, that Luke doesn't fit into (and as much as Lorelai doesn't want to admit it, she'll be going to those things for the rest of her life), Luke's inability to say no to crazy family things (aka anything involving Liz and TJ), Luke's reluctance to go with Lorelai's enthusiasm for various projects/festivals, Lorelai treating Luke like a doormat or toy.  I liked the two-season arc they did with Luke and Lorelai because it gave the show space to develop the relationship, with time to explore all the problems, the reasons why great friends are not always great lovers.

 

Also, I have to argue that for Lorelai's story the Christopher story had to happen eventually.  As I mentioned a few months ago on the Unpopular Opinions thread, Lorelai would never be able to stick with any guy, even Luke, with the constant "what if" of Christopher in the background.  They should have used Season 4 to explore the relationship before embarking on a Lorelai/Luke relationship instead of the pointless Digger story.  I think the marriage was necessary because it was everything wrong--everything stuck at 16--about the relationship. Personally, I enjoy Season 7 as a whole and for its character development of Lorelai more than Seasons 4-6. 

[junienmomo]

Taryn, or anyone for that matter, I would love to hear more about Lorelai's story. I'm just really stuck trying to understand her, and I didn't see her make any emotional progress in S7, except:

• in her admission to Chris that she loves Luke
• being able to tell Chris that he wouldn't be the one anyway
• Admitting to Luke that sleeping with Chris was wrong

I get blinded when I hear her not be able to say what/who she wants, and she didn't seem to change that throughout the series. It just seems too childish for a successful business owner and mother.

 

I really really miss not having the arc of Lorelai building a mature relationship with her parents.

[TyranAmiros]

 One thing I love about the show is that some of these arcs are incomplete.  Sure, it's bookended by Rory entering Chilton and graduating Yale, but while entering Chilton does set things in motion, it's not the end of the story.  Especially not between Lorelai and her parents.  That's a relationship that's built on a foundation of stubbornness, poor communication, and different hopes and dreams. 

 

But it's undeniable that their relationship has changed, and grown over the course of these seven years.  Emily and Richard barely speak with Lorelai at the beginning of the show.  Throughout the first two seasons, we get constant reminders of this--Rory's Birthday Parties, anything to do with Chilton events, Mia's visit to Stars Hollow.  Slowly thing change.  Emily and Richard come to Lorelai's graduation, even making a big fuss about it, which sets the stage for things that happen later.  By season 5, Emily is coming to Lorelai for dating advice and to be thrown a bachelorette party.  The final bit--telling Lorelai they're proud of her parenting and admitting some of the mistakes they made--perhaps suggests that one of these layers of conflict is finally being addressed.

 

We also see things change on Lorelai's end.  She comes over unannounced, even trying to bond with her mother while gardening.  When Lorelai pays back the Chilton money and her mother freaks out that Lorelai has no obligations to her, Lorelai hasn't yet earned her parents' trust, but we revisit this with the Yale money in seasons 3-4 and again at the end of the show.  Lorelai--who wouldn't have stepped foot in her parents' neighborhood at the beginning of the show--now suggests continuing Friday Night Dinner, even though Rory's going to be away. And Emily believes her.   Lorelai's never going to be the daughter her parents wanted--she's not willing to put up the social veneer necessary to live in that world.  But by the end of the show, she's not so reactive, she doesn't automatically hate something just because her mother likes it.

 

Yes, there's the big fight.  And the big fight was bound to happen eventually.  One of my unpopular opinions is that from a storytelling perspective, Rory's fight with her mother was a good thing.  Lorelai is a pretty great parent in many ways, but she can be too protective of Rory when it comes to her parents.  Lorelai has sixteen years of bad blood, Rory doesn't.  Rory's story arc is about her finding her independence, the classic path through the teenage years to finding herself.  Chilton, Yale, the Life and Death Brigade, the Yale Daily News, the Pool House, these are all steps on Rory's path.  Each including mistakes that she had to make for herself. 

 

I know it was suggested in another thread that Harvard is Lorelai's dream, but I don't get that impression.  Lorelai's more okay with Harvard because it's not Yale, but it's Rory herself who's focused and determined.  I'm sure Rory pushed for Chilton as well, which Lorelai went along with because Rory wanted it.  Lorelai's pretty clear throughout the series that deep down she wants Rory not to be held back from going after her dreams.  Yes, Lorelai can be over-protective of Rory, especially about Richard and Emily, but even by season 2, Lorelai and Rory are getting into fights where Rory wants to do things in that world that Lorelai would never consider (e.g. Cotillion). 

 

In other words, it's not a new fight between the two, but it is an inevitable fight.  Lorelai is generalizing from her own experience about Emily and Richard--she keeps Rory from them, and it must hurt at a deeply personal level that Rory embraces and thrives in that world in a way Lorelai doesn't.  Rory doesn't have the baggage and, frankly, understands that her grandparents have connections and entrances into the schools and careers she wants.  They'll always be close, but Lorelai's story is that of any parent: learning that you can't make all the decisions for your child.

[junienmomo]

Thank you Taryn, for this eloquent and beautiful missive. I'll reread many times, I know, but it brought a tear to my eye. 

Two points to add to your assessment:

• Rory's decision to go into the unknown rather than the certain with Logan was a powerful statement that she arrived at the point of choosing her own path
• Lorelai said in season 1 that she bought Rory a Harvard sweatshirt when she was 4, so while I fully agree that Rory was as committed to Harvard as Lorelai, the idea didn't originate with Rory

Again, many thanks for the effort, I do appreciate it.

[TyranAmiros]

Just to add to your first point, it's the culmination of a story thread from the episode where Rory writes the story on the Life and Death Brigade.  Logan tells her she has to take risks and experience things.  The full circle comes when reject Logan because she's learned to follower her own path.

 

Dean was safe, Jess was a kindred spirit, Marty a friend.  But Logan's the one who pushes Rory to do things she otherwise wouldn't, pushes her away from being safe toward the unknown.  Rory doesn't have a hero's journey; she has a heroine's journey--her illusions about herself, her mother, her grandparents, her father, and her friends are stripped away over the course of seasons 4 and 5 until she reaches her lowest point in the middle of Season 6. 

[Aloeonatable]

 

But Logan's the one who pushes Rory to do things she otherwise wouldn't, pushes her away from being safe toward the unknown.

 

Jumping from a height may be symbolic, but I have to disagree that Logan was the one who pushed Rory into moving away from what is considered "safe." Nothing Rory did with Logan or because of Logan was life altering or even positive for growth. Stealing, dropping out of school, drinking and partying are hardly admirable. 

 

I do agree that a main theme of the show was Rory fitting into the life her mother ran away from. 

Edited October 18, 2014 by Aloeonatable

[txhorns79]

I do agree that a main theme of the show was Rory fitting into the life her mother ran away from.

 

I would switch that up a bit and say a theme was daughters rebelling against their mothers.  In some ways, Rory was to Lorelai what Lorelai was to Emily.  It doesn't surprise me that Roy fit in with her grandparents and their crowd.  She doesn't have any of the baggage her mother does with them, and they all seem to genuinely like each other.

[junienmomo]

Worthy of Dean-bashing lie or error?

In ep1.07, Kiss and Tell, Dean says to Lorelai he doesn't have a motorcycle.

In 1.15, Christopher Returns, Dean tells Chris and Rory that he has an '86 Suzuki,while discussing Chris' motorcycle.

[Kohola3]

Worthy of Dean-bashing lie or error?

 

I'm voting for the same lack of continuity that haunted the whole series.  Sometimes it seemed like the writers did a show and then threw away the script so that no one should go back to it for reference.

[Eeksquire]

Yeah, that isn't the only time Dean referred to having a bike - he does in S.1,ep 12. Lane and Rory force him to fix Lane up with his friend.  And after the kid turns out to be really dumb, Rory kind of gives Dean a look and he says something like, "We work on our bikes together.  He has the good tools." as a way of explaining why he would hang out with this kid.

[Aloeonatable]

Continuity never was a part of this show. In NN/SN Luke tells Lorelai that Jess's dad left he and his mom 2 years prior to Jess's arrival in Stars Hollow. Later we hear that Jimmy left right after Jess was born or "as soon as the cigar was lit (or smoked?)"

[scarynikki12]

That's an easy wank, though.  Dean didn't have a motorcycle at the time of his conversation with Lorelai.  He planned on getting one eventually but didn't want to mention it since this was the first time he was meeting The Mom and she was making it clear that she didn't yet approve of him and that he needed to earn said approval.  Once he had it he was more comfortable bringing it up. 

[JayInChicago]

The way I explained the Jess's dad difference was that there were two Jimmys.  YEP.

[junienmomo]

Season 1 - Just watched it again, and I like it much better than before. It is more cohesive than I remember, and I was quite satisfied by the last episode that they'd done what they needed to do.

 

We see Lorelai transition from mother of a schoolchild to a mother letting her daughter start to grow up. Lorelai faces challenges of seeing Rory behave like an adult, with adult foibles. She's no longer a precocious kid, more mature than her classmates thanks to her upbringing. Instead Rory is on the cusp of womanhood and reflects some of Lorelai's less-preferred traits back at her. Think the "I don't want you to have the same commitment issues I have" theme, when Lorelai discovers that Rory pulled away from Dean rather than the opposite.
Lorelai also crosses the threshold of the adventure with her parents, mostly her mother. She faces challenges, goes one step forward, several steps back. With the Chilton financial commitment, Lorelai has let herself in for much more than she bargained for. She fights this challenge almost every step of the way.
More willingly, Lorelai enters the marriage game. She clearly has the desire to have a happy marriage, and the more Rory behaves like an adult, the more Lorelai behaves like a single woman open to a relationship. However, she has LOTS of commitment issues, and frequent prodding by Sookie and Emily and Rory seems to leave her bouncing back and forth between possibilities, never following her own heart, actually not really deciding what is in her heart.

 

Rory goes hesitantly into the relationship with Dean, jumping only when she realizes she must tell him that she wants to see more of him. It even endangers her mother's dream of Rory going to Harvard when Rory doesn't want to go to Chilton after Lorelai has made the deal her parents. Rory begins her separation from her childhood, first by distancing herself from Lane, then running to her grandparents when she fights with her mom. She struggles to find her place in the more challenging world of elite school Chilton, in the society which draws her inevitably closer. She makes good progress, developing courage as she grows.

 

Luke, after the first few episodes, starts to show that there is something more than a simple diner buddy relationship to the Gilmore girls. We see him interested, we see Lorelai considering the possibility, but drops the notion when Rory uses her "the town Luke, where will we eat if it goes wrong" argument for the first time. His ersatz father role plays itself out mostly out of Lorelai's view, keeping an eye on her as she studies in the diner, baking her a birthday coffee cake, letting Rory tease him about Lorelai. His ersatz husband role isn't very visible until the end of the season, with him being the fix-it guy. He shines in the husband role as the sounding board for Lorelai during Kiss and Tell, but falls back to friend during Richard's hospital stay, then peaks when we meet Bert for the first time, and Luke challenges Max openly enough for even Lorelai to notice. He starts to ask Lorelai out a couple of times, but is always foiled, sometimes by his own hesitance. Rachel sharpens our perspective of his feelings for Lorelai, and Luke ultimately can't let those feelings go in exchange for an actual romantic relationship with Rachel. By making that choice, he crosses the threshold into his designed-for-TV unrequited lover role.

Luke is under frequent pressure to have a more Taylor-like role in town affairs, but he adamantly refuses this call. His only moment of weakness comes at a price - Rory teases Luke affectionately when she recognizes he has allowed her mother to talk him into encouraging the town rummage sale by posting a sign in his window. Actually another good ersatz father-child moment: that time in which a kid can safely tease an adult without feeling like she's crossed a line. 

 

All three have started new adventures. While I'm indifferent to Lorelai's thousand daisies ending, because Max is frequently petulant and always pretentious to me, both Rory's and Luke's stories have me looking forward to the next round.

Edited October 20, 2014 by junienmomo

[Taryn74]

LOVE reading such detailed analyses! 

[junienmomo]

And I love analyzing the heck out of this story! I'll be putting it up on my website, I've got some ideas how to make it more interesting, maybe interactive. I'll post a link when it's done. 

[TeeVee329]

Just curious what the fandom's opinion is on Paul Anka (the dog, not the human).  I heart him, but then again, I'm a dog person.

[junienmomo]

Love dogs, understand that he was a substitute for Rory, could not understand how Lorelai could not discuss this with her fiance' first. It's still hard for me to understand someone who makes a big commitment like a pet first, then expects everyone to jump on board. 

Cute dog, ridiculous premise that he was uncannily smart. 

Oh, and was a catalyst for one of the sweetest moments in the show, when Luke comforted Lorelai after she stayed up all night with Paul Anka. 

Edited October 20, 2014 by junienmomo

[Taryn74]

Honestly?  I kinda hate Paul Anka.  IMO he was the wackiest, most annoying character on a show that already had plenty of wacky, annoying characters.  I feel bad saying that about a DOG, heh, but there you go.

[JayInChicago]

While I guess sometimes Paul Anka is shown to do the weird things Lorelai suggests he does, for a darker show he could have been a clue that Lorelai was losing her mind.  :)

[Kohola3]

Loved Paul Anka the dog because he was adorable. But the whole canine idiot savant was just a little over the top for me.  I'm really not sure of point of bringing him on at all except to make him a substitute for Rory.  And then he just sort of disappeared once she was back.

[txhorns79]

While I guess sometimes Paul Anka is shown to do the weird things Lorelai suggests he does, for a darker show he could have been a clue that Lorelai was losing her mind.

 

I kind of love the idea of Paul Anka as being symbolic of the show's overall detachment from reality. 

[jb0495]

Lost and Found/There's The Rub were on ABC Family today. They are probably 2 of my favorite episodes. I just love Luke & Lorelai apartment shopping and all the Jess & Rory scenes.

[junienmomo]

Aah, Lost and Found - one of the funniest episodes. I love the apartment sequence too. Here are a few screenshots, just for fun. 

[scarynikki12]

I've been rewatching the series and I realized something: I like the series finale a lot when I watch it after season 4's finale.  I remember hating it when it aired, but I still had the bitter taste in my mouth left from seasons five, six, and everything I'd read about seven.  That bitterness ruined the finale.  When I watch the first four seasons and then skip straight to the finale it all kind of comes together.  The bulk of the character assassinations get passed over, the inane plots can be ignored, and everything just feels more genuine and consistent.  Then, when Richard expresses his appreciation for Lorelai and Emily works hard to continue Friday Night Dinners, it actually seems like they actually like Lorelai and want her in their lives.  Even Rory getting that job at the last minute feels earned in a way that it didn't after experiencing the final few seasons.  It just worked for me this way.  I think I'll do this from now on whenever I rewatch the seasons.

 

Also, and this is so random, my rewatch has resulted in noticing how Lauren Graham walks.  When she walks her left foot is turned in while her right remains straight and forward.  I can't decide if that's the result of genes, an ankle injury, or if it's just a by product of being directed to walk diagonally so often.  It's super distracting now that I've seen it.

[junienmomo]

Does anyone understand the interchange between L&L underneath Kirk's Lucite box in 7.21, Unto the Breach?

I've read and seen it multiple times, but can't figure out who is trying to say what to whom.

It's post-karaoke, so Lorelai has already made the dumb mistake of not letting Luke know the karaoke did mean something to her.

 

Here's the last critical bit of the dialog. They've been talking about Rory's proposal from Logan.
 

LORELAI: Oh, uh, no. I'm not really leaning. I'm kind of upright.

LUKE: Oh well I just, I could understand if you were leaning away from "yes."

LORELAI: Why?

LUKE: Well I mean she’s really young and it’s the most important decision of your life -- you know, her life.

LORELAI: Well, they love each other. He’s been great. Maybe they got it together young. Some people do.

LUKE: Right and others need time.

LORELAI: Sure. Or they're never ready.

LUKE: I wouldn't say "never." Just they want to be a little more careful. They're a little slower, you know, just to make sure it’s right.

LORELAI: Well you can't always be 100% sure it’s right. Sometimes you just have to take a leap of faith.

LUKE: You got to know what you're leaping into.

LORELAI: After all this time, how could you not know?

LUKE: How could who not know?

LORELAI: Rory.

LUKE: Right.

LORELAI: Right.

LUKE: Rory.

 

[Kohola3]

I think it was their roundabout way of discussing their own situation while referring to Rory and Logan.  They both have so many doubts but also have hopes – too bad direct communication was so absent from their relationship so much of the time.

I always sort of tied that conversation into what Luke said to her at the end of the finale. Lorelai was trying to decide on what to have for breakfast and Luke looked at her and said "take all the time you need”.  And in my romantic version of the finale, I saw them together.

[junienmomo]

So they were kind of testing the waters with each other? That makes sense, except for the finale statement from Luke for Lorelai to take all the time she needed. Luke was the one who always needed time and Lorelai was the now-now-now person, except for the wedding plans while Rory was away. 

Today I noticed that I placed a LOT of importance on Lorelai's "it didn't mean anything" after Karaoke, more than the writers probably intended, because Luke seemed to open his mind again after that first curt reply with the coffee and the muffin. LOL, looks like I was the one holding the grudge.

Table for two, Kohola on the post-finale outcome. I've thought WAY too much about what I would expect in the days after Rory leaves.

[Aloeonatable]

 

Aah, Lost and Found - one of the funniest episodes

 

It's probably one of my very favorite episodes in the whole series. I love the tension between Lorelai and Jess. And I totally agree that the apartment hunting with Luke and Lorelai is laugh-out-loud funny. 

[BC Mama]

A favourite Luke moment of mine is when he goes to the Gilmore mansion to "meet" Emily, after she discovers that him and Lorelai are dating, and he introduces himself to the made and shakes her hand. So genuine.

[Gooey]

Also, and this is so random, my rewatch has resulted in noticing how Lauren Graham walks.  When she walks her left foot is turned in while her right remains straight and forward.  I can't decide if that's the result of genes, an ankle injury, or if it's just a by product of being directed to walk diagonally so often.  It's super distracting now that I've seen it.

 

OMG I've thought that for years haha. I actually assumed she had an artifical leg until I first saw her in a scene with her legs exposed. Seriously!

[G. Coop]

So I'm watching Wedding Bell Blues and Christopher just said, to Rory, that Lorelai kissing him for the first time, at fourteen, was the best day of his life. I kind of think that's an insensitive thing to say to your daughter, no? I'd figure her birth, and GiGi's, would rank higher than a teenage smooch in the parking lot of a convenience store. But maybe I'm just not the romantic Christopher is.

[Kohola3]

Yes, Christopher just exudes romanticism.  Watches his parents tear apart Lorelai and comforts her with a quickie on the balcony followed by a proposal.  Breaks up with Sherry after dragging her to Stars Hollow to gush all over Rory and immediately takes Lorelai on a ride of passion complete with declarations of eternal love only to drop the whole thing a few hours later.  Lorelai heads for his bed as soon as she breaks up with Luke and he, naturally, takes advantage of her   A true friend and soul mate would have helped her through it but he is such a spoiled brat he’s like a kid with candy.

And yes, wouldn’t you think the birth of his only child would rank up there somewhere as a big moment in his life?  I bet he made buying a motorcycle number two and Rory somewhere further down the line.  He never managed to grow emotionally past his teens. Dolt.

[txhorns79]

Lorelai heads for his bed as soon as she breaks up with Luke and he, naturally, takes advantage of her

 

Chris has made plenty of poor decisions throughout the series and he deserves the criticism, but in this particular case, I have to disagree with this suggestion.  Lorelai is, I think, 37 by this point and entirely capable of making her own bad choices.  She went to him.  He didn't manipulate her into bed or otherwise use his special voodoo on her.  She knows how Chris feels about her, she made her choice and she has to live with that.  If anything, you could say Lorelai took advantage of Chris, because she played on his feelings for her when she went to him. 

[junienmomo]

While I agree that the decision to go to Chris is 100% Lorelai's, and she bears full fault for it, a person of stronger moral character than Chris would not have followed through. Chris only figured out weeks later that he didn't want to be her rebound. For me, it's sort of a 100%/20% fault situation.

[Kohola3]

While I agree that the decision to go to Chris is 100% Lorelai's, and she bears full fault for it, a person of stronger moral character than Chris would not have followed through.

 

I agree.  If he truly loved her he would have waited for her to come to a realization on what was best, not have jumped in and taken advantage of the situation. But Christopher was always a Me First dude from the get go. 

[Guest]

Eh, one could argue that Lorelai was feeling fragile and rejected by Luke, the man she wanted to spend the rest of her life with.  Long term, she would have been better off not sleeping with Christopher probably, but short-term, it may have devastated her further.  Christopher has always seemed to have a short-term view of fixing problems.  

[junienmomo]

Rory got it right, I think:

"RORY: You know what, mom? If you're heartbroken, rent "An Affair to Remember," have a good cry, and drown your sorrows in a pint of ice cream. You get a hideously unflattering breakup haircut. You don't sleep with dad."

[junienmomo]

This is my last hurrah on Bracebridge (see Nitpick thread for that discussion). ;)

Here's a split-second character development for L&L in S2. Mostly I see S2 as a strong growth in their friendship, and no romance. 

But when Sookie gets the idea to invite everyone to the Bracebridge dinner, they invite Luke, then try to get him to start telling everyone. He starts to protest that he hadn't even accepted yet and why should he be the messenger. 

Then Lorelai does a 1-second eyebrow wrinkle and Luke caves. It's an odd little moment in light of this being a friendship year, makes me think about how often he tried to get out of the Career Day speech in S3. 

 

Here are before and with the wrinkle pictures.

 

[junienmomo]

Lane's arc in the series crashed and burned with the double whammy of Rory going to Yale and Dave to California. We were left with the shreds of a life, and Lane ended up stuck in the "married with twins" cliche of modern television. 

Mag68 over at FanFiction posed an alternative that I think would have been a great arc for Lane. 

In chapter 36 of That Couple Life (link: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/4064341/36/That-Couple-Life ), Lane acts as a truth-teller to Luke, giving him information that he needed to hear. Beautifully done. 

Think about it - if Lane had stepped into this role earlier, Stars Hollow would have had a mentor/guide that would have rivaled Taylor. And she would have challenged him in ways that Jackson and Luke could not. I don't see Lane ever running for town selectman, but rather leading the town to be better than they were before. What would SH have been like if she'd started a music festival? Or pulled Dean back into the real world? Maybe Jess could have stayed longer, or returned, if there had been a cultural event (organized by Lane, natch) that could have involved him. Where would Rory have grown if SH had been more competitive as a real place for her to live and work? And in my book, Lane would have gotten Dave back, they were MFEO.

Edited November 1, 2014 by junienmomo

[MaiSoCalled]

Lane's arc in the series crashed and burned with the double whammy of Rory going to Yale and Dave to California.

 

I'm currently rewatching season 4, and I like a lot about Lane's arc in this season. Her relationship with her mother is a wonderful contrast to Lorelai and Rory, and Lane leaving home pushes her to truly discover who she is.

 

While I prefer Dave, I don't mind her relationship with Zack. i really enjoy her realization that she wants to wait until marriage. It's somewhere after that where I feel her arc goes downhill. I love the idea of her creating a music festival in Stars Hollow or becoming further involved with the town. Or send her to New York for a while, let her really see of rock & roll is her future. 

 

For me it's less that Lane ended the series married with twins, and more that she never really had a chance to find her place like Rory, Paris, Logan, or Jess did. 

[junienmomo]

It was thought-provoking to observe the contrasts Mrs. Kim - Lane to Lorelai-Rory. 

Both girls were remarkably self-driven, both mothers had a touch of the crazy. 

Mrs. Kim's parenting style was controlling, Lorelai's was hands-off after the first years. 

While it might be argued that Mrs. Kim's style produced better results, I believe it was simply that Rory had more opportunities to screw in dramatically scandalous ways than Lane did. 

How much do you think the daughters turned out to be like the mothers as adults?

[Kohola3]

I am thinking that Lane would be a kinder, gentler version of her mom with significantly less religious fervor.  She is sort of stuck in the Mom role and knows it (since she sent her hubby on tour knowing she couldn't go) and I think she would eventually give up music all together.  Zack would be unlikely to become a huge rock star which means little to no money;  thus she would probably end up working a job at least part time while Mama Kim did the baby sitting,  Without a college degree she would be in a low paying job of some sort.

 

Cripes, as I right this I am becoming increasing depressed!

 

Rory will follow her mother using her higher education to follow her dreams provided she did will on her first job. She showed that she was capable of understanding the consequences of walking away from a sure thing when she turned down Smirky McSmirk with his marriage ultimatum.  The Gilmore Girls never responded well to ultimatums!

[txhorns79]

Rory will follow her mother using her higher education to follow her dreams provided she did will on her first job. She showed that she was capable of understanding the consequences of walking away from a sure thing when she turned down Smirky McSmirk with his marriage ultimatum.  The Gilmore Girls never responded well to ultimatums!

 

I thought that was one of Rory's best decisions.  I didn't get why Logan tried to pressure Rory into accepting, and it seemed brave to walk away from him.  Though I would say Rory would adopt more of the trappings of her grandparents, while being able to keep things much looser than they were ever able to, as a nod to her mother's influence.

 

I would wonder if Lane might go into her family's business.  It seems like running or helping to run the antique store would be a somewhat flexible job that could allow Lane some freedom with raising her kids. 

[junienmomo]

The story needed Logan's ultimatum for several reasons. 

• both girls would be in permanent relationships
• they were planning for the 8th season, a pursuit and follow-on engagement is nice drama
• Rory hadn't completely embraced the live-with-uncertainty mindset
• LOL, the producers had already found out how much it cost to run a series in California with Jess' series
• San Jose is just plain undramatic as a location
• Rory knew that Logan still had some issues

In my mind, Logan goes through the "I was wrong" thing again and builds a relationship on Rory's terms, maybe even proves himself worthy. 

Edited November 2, 2014 by junienmomo

[blueray]

Just curious what the fandom's opinion is on Paul Anka (the dog, not the human).  I heart him, but then again, I'm a dog person.

I liked Paul Anka (probably because I'm a dog person). Though they could have made him less "weird" and just have the normal habits of a dog.

 

 

My take on Lane's future is more happy then most I guest. I can see her taking of "Carole King's" music store. Throughout the show she keeps saying she wants to retire, why not leave it to her regular customer. I like to thing that Mrs. Kim and maybe Loreali/ Luke help with watching the twins. Zach isn't a dead beat dad, he goes on a few tours (they see him when he's close to home) and the rest of the time he is home with his family.  While they both still love their music, most likely Zach doesn't hit it big and does get a real job back in star Hollow.  I also like what someone said about her (them) starting a music feasible in star's Hollow.

Edited November 2, 2014 by blueray

[lulu1960]

San Jose is just plan undramatic as a location

 

This made me giggle. Any guesses to where I live? 

[junienmomo]

Junie: San Jose is just plan undramatic as a location

Lulu: This made me giggle. Any guesses to where I live?

 

 

LOL, Lulu, I worked there so often in previous years, I know what you mean.

I get that Logan's future is in tech, but honestly, he's a business guy, not a tech guru. He ought to be out schmoozing investors. Plenty of dramatic locations for that. 

[JayInChicago]

I love the beginning of season two "Lane's going to Korea" subplot. No matter how many times I see it, I crack up at her standing next to the suitcase that is larger than she is.  Is that a real suitcase?  did they mock it up specifically for this show?

I also love the Lane Kim retrieval envelope, and "A Connecticut Yankee in Pusan".