All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[Aloeonatable]

Just watching some the season 6 episodes and cannot for the life of me understand why Rory ,and to a lesser extent, Logan hang out with Colin, Finn and the girls they seem to gravitate toward. Was Rory really that shallow? 

[Kohola3]

Was Rory really that shallow?

 

And simpering and baby-voiced and flighty?  Apparently that's ASP's version of society Rory.  Gag.

[junienmomo]

Was Rory really that shallow?

 

I think she was attracted to the L&D Brigade because of the romantic nature of the group. Very Great Gatsby, which is generally a big draw for young people trying out their wings. Nothing says that any of these people were shallow, it was simply their sport, their fraternity, their club, the group they chose to belong to while in college. 

[Eeksquire]

Yeah, I don't know what happened with the Life & Death Brigade storyline - initially, it seemed promising when Rory went to their "glamping" party in the woods and people were playing stupid games (having conversations without words containing ... was it the letter 'i'?) but stupid games that did require some quick intellectual work.  Unfortunately, it devolved almost immediately into "Look how charming we are, with our constant alcohol abuse, but it's ok because we're rich and will face no consequences."  I thought it was a wasted opportunity.

[junienmomo]

Someone noticed that the Palladinos used a lot of references to gory killers in GG. (Sorry, search in the forum is particularly stupid today and I cannot find out who)

However, here's one to add.

Chilton school - Chilton is a major character in Silence of the Lambs, and apparently is killed and eaten by Lecter.

[Guest]

Yesterday, I watched P.S. I Lo.... and was bothered yet again by how rude Lorelai was to Emily.  It's episodes like that that make me hesitate from putting the majority of blame for their relationship on Emily. It seems pretty equal (until Season 5 where ASP turned Emily into a super-villain).  Emily and Richard cancelled plans to stay and tend to their granddaughter, called Lorelai pretty much immediately so she wouldn't worry, and did nothing wrong.  Lorelai couldn't have been ruder if she tried to Emily about it.  I get that she was upset, but lash out at your teenager who ran away to her grandparents, not the people who actually tried to make the situation better!

[junienmomo]

 Emily and Richard cancelled plans to stay and tend to their granddaughter, called Lorelai pretty much immediately so she wouldn't worry, and did nothing wrong.  Lorelai couldn't have been ruder if she tried to Emily about it.  I get that she was upset, but lash out at your teenager who ran away to her grandparents, not the people who actually tried to make the situation better!

 

Now translate that to Mia/Emily/Lorelai. Same runaway principle, although not a permanent situation. Emily did communicate to the mother where Rory was, which was more than Mia or Lorelai did at the time. Lorelai had no place to be so upset about it. 

 

Rory ran away to her grandparents two more times as well, first to Emily when Lorelai didn't approve of her sleeping with Dean, then later when Lorelai didn't approve of her quitting Yale. Rory didn't ever learn that lesson as far as I can tell. Running to the grandparents seemed to work very well for her.

[Guest]

Now translate that to Mia/Emily/Lorelai. Same runaway principle, although not a permanent situation. Emily did communicate to the mother where Rory was, which was more than Mia or Lorelai did at the time. Lorelai had no place to be so upset about it. 

 

Rory ran away to her grandparents two more times as well, first to Emily when Lorelai didn't approve of her sleeping with Dean, then later when Lorelai didn't approve of her quitting Yale. Rory didn't ever learn that lesson as far as I can tell. Running to the grandparents seemed to work very well for her.

I wouldn't say Rory ran to them that time.  More like Lorelai pushed her into going.  It didn't even seem like she really wanted to go.

[junienmomo]

I wouldn't say Rory ran to them that time.

 

 

 

Good point, Deaja, I'd forgotten that Lorelai suggested Rory go. Rory would have stayed with Dean and broken up his marriage really dramatically. Yikes, can you imagine what those shows would have been like? Rory walking around town, looking for a job and dating a married man while Lindsay's mom whaled on her character. 

[dustylil]

With respect, I don't think Mia was under any obligation to notify Emily  that Lorelai was in Stars Hollow at the Independence Inn. There was no missing persons report concerning Lorelai and Rory - to the best of my recollection - so  there were no police departments needed to be told. In any event, how would Mia know what type of environment Lorelai had left or what kind of parents Richard and Emily were? Until more facts were known, it would seem to me to be something of a betrayal of  the teenager  she had taken in to immediately contact the senior Gilmores. That said, I would presume she would encourage Lorelai to allow her parents at the very least  to be informed that she and the baby were safe and well - even if their exact whereabouts were not revealed.

 

Now, I apologize for this and it may well be just me, but I find it  highly entertaining  that a twenty year old leaving home (especially to move in with her grandparents) is called running away.

Edited December 30, 2014 by dustylil

[Betweenyouandme]

I thought the show portrayed adolescent rebellion in a most peculiar manner. The fractious teenage Lorelai was an excellent student on track to attend a prestigious college. Her love interest was a boy from the social circle in which she was raised, the son of close friends of her parents. No evidence of promiscuity, truancy, heavy drug or liquor use, or unsuitable friends with her. Jess, the other main adolescent insubordinate may have disliked the strictures of Stars Hollow High but chose to work at Walmart, not exactly a bastion of free spiritedness. Or great pay, for that matter, that might have made his embrace of the corporate world more understandable.

In season 7, Emily reveals that Chris and Loralai stole a bottle of Richard's wine, broke off the top with a brick, and drank what was left on the porch.

[dustylil]

There is no doubt that Lorelai did drink when she was a teenager, She herself mentioned it on more than one occasion. But my earlier  post specifically referenced "heavy" drinking. And there was no evidence given that alcohol interfered with her day-to-day functioning. She was the top student in her prep school class. Of course, she shouldn't have been drinking at all. But for whatever reason, alcohol consumption seemed to be part of the lifestyle among the teenage children of the well-to-do in the Gilmore Girls universe. 

 Lorelai was clearly reckless and willful as a young teen but she scarcely seemed ready to join the ladies auxiliary of the Hell's Angels.

[Betweenyouandme]

Was just trying to add to the conversation. I saw the episode today and remembered about the conversation.

I've been watching on Netflix, and I never stop loving Rory. I especially like the later seasons seem to have less about Stars Hollow. Babette is the only towns person I like besides the very main characters who live there. I might be wrong about there being less town stuff, but I like that there are lots of scenes of Yale and just out and about away from SH.

[dustylil]

Sorry, Betweenyouandme, my post came out far more obstreperous than I had intended. Still recovering from last night's champagne, I guess :)

[txhorns79]

With respect, I don't think Mia was under any obligation to notify Emily  that Lorelai was in Stars Hollow at the Independence Inn. There was no missing persons report concerning Lorelai and Rory - to the best of my recollection - so  there were no police departments needed to be told. In any event, how would Mia know what type of environment Lorelai had left or what kind of parents Richard and Emily were?  In any event, how would Mia know what type of environment Lorelai had left or what kind of parents Richard and Emily were? Until more facts were known, it would seem to me to be something of a betrayal of  the teenager  she had taken in to immediately contact the senior Gilmores. That said, I would presume she would encourage Lorelai to allow her parents at the very least  to be informed that she and the baby were safe and well - even if their exact whereabouts were not revealed.

 

I'd like to think any decent, responsible adult would immediately demand to know what was going on when a random teenager and her baby show up on their doorstep seeking a job and shelter.  I also can't imagine under what scenario presented by the show it would be a "betrayal" of Lorelai to let her parents know where she was and that she and Rory were safe.  I mean, could you imagine if your kid had pulled a Lorelai, and the adult they were with simply left it to your teenage daughter to eventually inform you of her whereabouts on her own schedule?  I can't speak for other people, but I would be furious with that person for that kind of irresponsibility.  Lorelai was running away from home, she wasn't traumatized by some awful thing in her past.  Lorelai wasn't being abused, her parents weren't neglecting her or threatening to throw her out of the house.  She was just an unhappy teenager who blamed her parents for everything.  That's not exactly something out of Dickens.  Heck, one thing Emily had right (and the show was never able to adequately justify) was that Mia should never have interfered in the manner she did with Lorelai.                   

 

 

Was just trying to add to the conversation. I saw the episode today and remembered about the conversation.

 

You are always free to share your opinion here.  We don't really know what Lorelai was like as a teenager.  No one can say for certain, so your point is well taken.

Edited January 2, 2015 by txhorns79

[dustylil]

With respect, how would Mia know whether or not Lorelai was being abused or neglected? That she had not been traumatized? Or what kind of home she had come from? All she saw on her porch was a distraught teenager and a small baby. Their safety and well-being were her first concerns. Once those two matters were attended to, other issues could be addressed.

There was no evidence that Mia hid the pair, declined to call the senior Gilmores, refused to notify the authorities of their presence (if indeed they had been involved in the first place) or discouraged Lorelai from contacting her parents as to their location. Even Emily herself  made no such suggestion when she finally met Mia years later.

 

And yes, if a family member was that upset and alienated to the point of leaving home at a young age, I would hope someone like Mia would take him or her in and help them get their bearings. Particularly so, given the generally dire options for runaways.

Edited January 2, 2015 by dustylil

[txhorns79]

With respect, how would Mia know whether or not Lorelai was being abused or neglected? That she had not been traumatized? Or what kind of home she had come from? All she saw on her porch was a distraught teenager and a small baby.

 

 

I'm not sure where you are getting that Lorelai showed up at Mia's in a distraught state.  Which episode is that from? 

 

As to what Mia would know, I would think the first thing a responsible adult would ask would be: "Lorelai, are you in trouble?  Where are your parents?  Do they know where you are?  Why are you running away?  Please tell me what happened, or I won't be able to help you."   

 

 

There was no evidence that Mia hid the pair or discouraged Lorelai from contacting her parents as to their location. Even Emily herself  made no such suggestion when she finally met Mia years later.

 

Who said Mia hid Lorelai or discouraged her from contacting her parents?  My point was that a responsible adult wouldn't leave the option to the runaway teenager to eventually contact her parents on her own timetable, once the actual reasons for Lorelai's having run away were established.      

 

 

And yes, if a family member was that upset and alienated to the point of leaving home at a young age, I would hope someone like Mia would take him or her in and help them get their bearings. Particularly so, given the generally dire options for runaways.

 

I would want the well meaning stranger, who knew nothing of me or my family, to send my child home.  Unless it was a case of abuse or neglect, I can't really fathom a situation where a stranger feels they have the right to intervene that way into my family life.  This is particularly true given Lorelai's issues with her parents appeared to be pretty typical teenage angst.  As I said, it was a weakness of the series that they never really were able to justify Lorelai's actions.  Heck, even when Richard directly confronted Lorelai in Christopher Returns as to what he and Emily had done to possibly justify Lorelai's running away, she was unable to point to anything. 

[BC Mama]

In Rory's Birthday Parties, when Lorelai is freaking out to Sookie about her parents being in Stars Hollow, she makes a comment about how her parents visited a couple times when they they lived at the inn but had never been to their home. So, Mia might not have sent them home, but she may have encouraged lorelai to contact Richard Nd Emily or called them herself.

[AlinaRay]

Did Mia know Lorelai was 16? I can see Lorelai fudging things a bit and making herself 18, and then Mia not finding out for many years Lorelai's true age.

[txhorns79]

Did Mia know Lorelai was 16? I can see Lorelai fudging things a bit and making herself 18, and then Mia not finding out for many years Lorelai's true age.

 

I think Lorelai was 17 when she left home.  In Dear Emily and Richard, Emily makes a comment about Lorelai having taken a year (or something like that) to finally move the stroller from the entryway, before they find Lorelai's note. 

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

What bugged me about the Mia thing is this supposed saint of a woman let a teenage mother and baby live in a shed. For Years! Like, she couldn't help her find a cheap apartment or something. Considering how beloved Mia was and then later on Lorelai, Not one person could help them out with cheap rent?

 

I really wish they would have said she let her use some room not attached to the inn or something kind of like what Lorelai had Emily and Richard staying in during the opening. It would have made Mia sound more benevolent and less like the girls would have died of hypothermia during a harsh winter. I can't right off remember what it looked like, It's been awhile since I've seen the episode, so maybe the shed was nice but the imagery of the word shed puts me off.

[txhorns79]

I really wish they would have said she let her use some room not attached to the inn or something kind of like what Lorelai had Emily and Richard staying in during the opening. It would have made Mia sound more benevolent and less like the girls would have died of hypothermia during a harsh winter. I can't right off remember what it looked like, It's been awhile since I've seen the episode, so maybe the shed was nice but the imagery of the word shed puts me off.

 

I think the shed was heated and had plumbing, but you are essentially right.  For all her benevolence, it was kind of weird Mia never helped Lorelai to get into a one bedroom apartment or something similar, given she treated Lorelai as though she was almost a daughter.   

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I think the shed was heated and had plumbing, but you are essentially right.  For all her benevolence, it was kind of weird Mia never helped Lorelai to get into a one bedroom apartment or something similar, given she treated Lorelai as though she was almost a daughter.   

 

I just looked at the transcript and this Rory quote makes it worse for me:"RORY: I know it's looks small, but it's really pretty. Come on. See we had our bed right over there, and mom put up this really pretty curtain around the tub so that it looked like a real bathroom. And we would just sit outside at night when the Inn would have parties and we'd just listen to music and feed the ducks and. . . [Emily walks away] Grandma? Grandma wait, what's the matter?"

 

I don't mean to sound crass but there is no mention of a toilet so I went to look at some screencaps and there is a pretty good pan of the room and I still didn't see one. Where did they go to the bathroom?!? But yeah, the room itself is aesthetically nicer than I remember. Still, though C'mon SaintMia!

[txhorns79]

I don't mean to sound crass but there is no mention of a toilet so I went to look at some screencaps and there is a pretty good pan of the room and I still didn't see one. Where did they go to the bathroom?!? But yeah, the room itself is aesthetically nicer than I remember. Still, though C'mon SaintMia!

 

I think a lake was mentioned, wasn't it?  More seriously, I will admit that I never really pondered that issue.  I'm just going to assume it was out of the shot, or the girls adopted Melissa McCarthy's method from Bridesmaids.   

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

I think a lake was mentioned, wasn't it?  More seriously, I will admit that I never really pondered that issue.  I'm just going to assume it was out of the shot, or the girls adopted Melissa McCarthy's method from Bridesmaids.   

 

LOL! Maybe that was why Luke would take his shirt off at the lake but never actually get in to swim.

[dustylil]

As one who had long queried Mia's decision to all a teenage girl and her small child to live in an out building, I charitably attributed  ASP's peculiar choice of a potting shed as a place of residence to her being a native of Southern California. I know years ago (and it may still be the case, for all I know) it was not uncommon - particularly during severe  housing shortages - for people to live in car garages in that region. Perhaps ASP felt a shed -although offbeat- would  seem  warmer and homier, romantic even.

As far as I can figure,  that the weather in Connecticut bore no resemblance to that of Southern California did not enter her thinking.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

As one who had long queried Mia's decision to all a teenage girl and her small child to live in an out building, I charitably attributed  ASP's peculiar choice of a potting shed as a place of residence to her being a native of Southern California. I know years ago (and it may still be the case, for all I know) it was not uncommon - particularly during severe  housing shortages - for people to live in car garages in that region. Perhaps ASP felt a shed -although offbeat- would  seem  warmer and homier, romantic even.

As far as I can figure,  that the weather in Connecticut bore no resemblance to that of Southern California did not enter her thinking.

 

You know I can see what your saying about the quirky narrative of it and the fact that they live there for so long during the formative years of Rory childhood helps establish their freaky bond. But I just keep thinking everybody needs space, even kids. It makes me wonder if some of her intense focus when reading might have developed as a way for at least in her mind, sort of make her own space and escape from the situation as a child.

[txhorns79]

But I just keep thinking everybody needs space, even kids. It makes me wonder if some of her intense focus when reading might have developed as a way for at least in her mind, sort of make her own space and escape from the situation as a child.

 

This is very interesting.  Rory did sometimes seem like someone who'd rather just be in her own world, than deal with the situation around her.  I'd think the way she grew up while at the Inn was probably pretty isolating, since Lorelai wouldn't have had the time or resources to schedule playdates, make friends with the other moms, etc.   

[BC Mama]

This is very interesting.  Rory did sometimes seem like someone who'd rather just be in her own world, than deal with the situation around her.  I'd think the way she grew up while at the Inn was probably pretty isolating, since Lorelai wouldn't have had the time or resources to schedule playdates, make friends with the other moms, etc.

Maybe living such an isolated childhood is what lead to Rory wanting to travel so badly.

[ghoulina]

I don't know that them starting out in the inn would have necessarily meant Rory was "isolated" as a child. That's just where they lived. Rory attended public school, I'm assuming starting at age 5. She and Lane were apparently friends from a very young age, and I'm guessing the girls were involved with town functions for quite a long time to have the rapport they did with everyone. I think Rory is just a bit introverted by nature, but I don't think they were just constantly stuck out in that potting shed with no interactions with anyone else. 

 

Is there any indication of how long they lived there anyhow? Obviously it was long enough to establish a real fondness for the place, but when Rory brought Lucy and Olivia home to SH, didn't they find one of those doorways where parents mark their child's height over the years? I need to rewatch and see how far back that went.

[txhorns79]

I don't know that them starting out in the inn would have necessarily meant Rory was "isolated" as a child. That's just where they lived. Rory attended public school, I'm assuming starting at age 5. She and Lane were apparently friends from a very young age, and I'm guessing the girls were involved with town functions for quite a long time to have the rapport they did with everyone. I think Rory is just a bit introverted by nature, but I don't think they were just constantly stuck out in that potting shed with no interactions with anyone else.

 

I don't think Rory was stuck out in the potting shed all the time.  However, I would think, just based on her mother's age, full time job, living arrangements and lack of opportunites for Lorelai to make friends with other young mothers, that Rory would not have had much interaction with other kids until she started school. 

[HeySandyStrange]

 

I really wish they would have said she let her use some room not attached to the inn or something kind of like what Lorelai had Emily and Richard staying in during the opening.

 

Honestly, this has annoyed me for years.  I can't believe in that big inn that there wasn't one room that Lorelai and Rory could've had. Or a cheap (or no cost) apartment in town that Second Mother Mia could have gotten them because she is know and loved by all. 

 

I also wonder how long they actually stayed in that shed. Given that Lorelai seemed to have risen quickly in the ranks, you'd think at some point she would have gotten herself an apartment. I guess we could believe they stayed there until Lorelai could save up for the house, or more likely because ASP was more interested in quirkiness then a more logical approach. Sometimes I really wish we would have gotten some more insight into the before GG years.

Edited January 4, 2015 by HeySandyStrange

[Eeksquire]

I always figured that the potting shed accommodations were Lorelai's choice - not ideal, but not charity.  Throughout the series, she seems to feel very strongly about not taking charity from people and earning her own way.  It's possible that Mia *did* offer to let her stay in the Inn somewhere, but Lorelai refused because she didn't want to feel indebted to anyone.  (Also, the only time we see it, we can assume that multiple years have passed between when they lived there and when it resumed life as a potting shed.  It's hard to judge what we see versus what may have been 10 years earlier, even taking into account Rory's romanticized soliloquy about it.)

 

Aside from the "real-world" (versus "tv-world") practicalities, I think this is a clear case of something that ASP feels romantical about - the potting shed is copied almost feature-for-feature in the "guest house" that showed up in Bunheads, complete with a bathtub in the middle of the room.  And truthfully, I can see the appeal myself - I would certainly like to run away from my life to a more-or-less isolated cabin in the woods somewhere with a fire place and a random bathtub in the middle of the room.  It's fantasy-land.

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

 

I always figured that the potting shed accommodations were Lorelai's choice - not ideal, but not charity.  Throughout the series, she seems to feel very strongly about not taking charity from people and earning her own way.  It's possible that Mia *did* offer to let her stay in the Inn somewhere, but Lorelai refused because she didn't want to feel indebted to anyone.

 

That would be fine if she was alone making her way in the world, to have that certain level of pride. But if she turned down a room while raising a baby? For me, I would rather think Mia that thoughtless, than Lorelai that prideful.

[txhorns79]

Throughout the series, she seems to feel very strongly about not taking charity from people and earning her own way.  It's possible that Mia *did* offer to let her stay in the Inn somewhere, but Lorelai refused because she didn't want to feel indebted to anyone.  (Also, the only time we see it, we can assume that multiple years have passed between when they lived there and when it resumed life as a potting shed.  It's hard to judge what we see versus what may have been 10 years earlier, even taking into account Rory's romanticized soliloquy about it.)

 

If it had just been Lorelai, I would agree with you about her being hardheaded and set on not accepting help.  However, I can't imagine Lorelai honestly turning down a more normal living arrangement to live in a potting shed with her baby based on a general principle of refusing assistance.  That would just be so selfish, and honestly, it would make Lorelai look like kind of a terrible parent.   

Edited January 4, 2015 by txhorns79

[BC Mama]

Honestly, this has annoyed me for years.  I can't believe in that big inn that there wasn't one room that Lorelai and Rory could've had. Or a cheap (or no cost) apartment in town that Second Mother Mia could have gotten them because she is know and loved by all. 

 

I also wonder how long they actually stayed in that shed. Given that Lorelai seemed to have risen quickly in the ranks, you'd think at some point she would have gotten herself an apartment. I guess we could believe they stayed there until Lorelai could save up for the house, or more likely because ASP was more interested in quirkiness then a more logical approach. Sometimes I really wish we would have gotten some more insight into the before GG years.

I was under the impression that Rory was ten when they moved into the house. I can't think of when it was mentioned, but in the season 3 DVD's bonus features, there is a cut out flashback scene from Richard and Emily, young Lorelai and Rory looking about 10 are dancing around in celebration of moving to their own home.

[dustylil]

I too think Rory was 10 (or possibly 11) when the moved into their home.

I never could figure out why Lorelai would even want to buy a house (charming as that particular one was). It was not that she was particularly domestic in her interests. Rory was pretty much beyond the age to run  around and  play  in a yard. And a house involves a lot more upkeep and expense than an apartment (like the one she and Luke looked at) ever would.

Yes, I know about mortgage interest deductibility (sob!), but still ...

Edited January 4, 2015 by dustylil

[Ms Blue Jay]

Sorry to completely change the subject.

 

Max Medina creeps me out so much in the episode where Lorelai and Max are hanging out, and so are Rory and Dean.  And Max keeps bringing up what Rory is doing with Dean, and Lorelai just kind of shrugs it off.  I feel like Max is so creepy about wanting so badly to have a say in what Rory does, and control her.  I think Lorelai is totally in the right to respond like, I'm the one who raises her, and I've raised her.  And it's even weirder that Max is insulted by this.  It's like he felt hurt or emasculated by Lorelai saying, you don't need to be involved in raising my teenager and what she does has zero to do with you (all true things).  I already don't see the appeal in Scott Cohen or Max Medina at all, and this just makes it all the worse.  Not saying Lorelai is some perfect parent or anything trust me.  But I'm totally on her side about this; I'd just me way more creeped out and turned off than she was.   I swear, this is probably why people hate step-parents..... I wouldn't know... maybe it's a very realistic depiction !(?)

Edited January 6, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[RoyRogersMcFreely]

Sorry to completely change the subject.

 

Max Medina creeps me out so much in the episode where Lorelai and Max are hanging out, and so are Rory and Dean.  And Max keeps bringing up what Rory is doing with Dean, and Lorelai just kind of shrugs it off.  I feel like Max is so creepy about wanting so badly to have a say in what Rory does, and control her.  I think Lorelai is totally in the right to respond like, I'm the one who raises her, and I've raised her.  And it's even weirder that Max is insulted by this.  It's like he felt hurt or emasculated by Lorelai saying, you don't need to be involved in raising my teenager and what she does has zero to do with you (all true things).  I already don't see the appeal in Scott Cohen or Max Medina at all, and this just makes it all the worse.  Not saying Lorelai is some perfect parent or anything trust me.  But I'm totally on her side about this; I'd just me way more creeped out and turned off than she was.   I swear, this is probably why people hate step-parents..... I wouldn't know... maybe it's a very realistic depiction !(?)

 

I agree with you. And I think since she was already 16 or so he should have let Rory lead the way in whatever relationship she was comfortable with them having instead of trying to force a place for himself..

 

I honestly hated the times Luke overstepped those boundaries too. The putting Dean in a head lock and the bop-it incident, and the walking in on the state of undress during the vow renewal and loosing it. Because while I understand he loved her and wanted good things for her, it wasn't his place and not to mention assaulting a teenager over a break-up is messed up. The only time I liked his stepping in on the Rory/Lorelai relationship was during the feud because it was directly affecting his relationship with Lorelai so he deserved a say.

[txhorns79]

I agree with you. And I think since she was already 16 or so he should have let Rory lead the way in whatever relationship she was comfortable with them having instead of trying to force a place for himself..

 

I kind of blame Lorelai for all that.  It was up to her to sketch out what kind of relationship she envisioned for Max as a step-parent to Rory, and for them to discuss the issue.  I would agree Rory herself should have been part of that conversation.  They never discussed things, so Max had no guidance in how to deal with Rory in a parent role.   

[takalotti]

I remember the episode being discussed, but I don't remember the WAY Max was making his points to say if he was being creepy about it.

But coming from a childhood with two step parents, I'd say his basic points were fair. Lorelai and Max did need to talk about roles and boundaries when it came to parenting Rory. They didn't need to get it all figured out that night, but getting on the same page is almost always a good thing.

Sure, Rory was mostly grown up and was responsible and trustworthy, so she could manage herself pretty well. But I think Lorelai was being naive if she thought Max wouldn't have any involvement. Would Lorelai really be home any time Max was home with Rory? Would there never be the case where Lorelai was working late and Rory said she was going out to ____? Is Max supposed to always say, "Sure, see ya when I see ya," even if he sees a red flag just because Lorelai preapproved all of Rory's decisions? Is he supposed to call Lorelai first? Is Rory supposed to behave as she would have if Max weren't there, either calling her mom for the permission or leaving a note? What does it say about your relationship with your husband if you're telling him the household is going to carry on as if he weren't there?

Max's idea of what's appropriate for dating teenagers doesn't have to trump Lorelai's by any means, or even carry equal weight. But I think he should feel like he can at least voice his ideas without getting automatically shutdown.

All that said, I don't think the episode was meant to take that deep of a look at step-parenthood. I think the point was just to make it obvious that Lorelai liked the IDEA of being married to Max but hadn't actually thought about the reality of it. Or even wanted to think about the reality of it, it appeared.

[Ms Blue Jay]

But that's what the scene is literally all about.  Max demands that Lorelai talk about his involvement.  And she clarifies that it's basically almost none.  And I like that.   Max seemed really hurt by her opinion/decision though.  I find that weird.  Why would he care?  It was like he was just waiting for this opportunity to control a 16 year old girl in the way he wanted.

 

I kind of hypothetically thought about them being married, and then I kind of understood the conundrum more.  I just really didn't like his personal parenting ideas and his questions, or the way he was all butthurt that he couldn't admonish or control Rory in these weird ways.  Like, he mentioned getting upset if Rory was kissing Dean.  Jeez!  Red flag I think.

 

Going to another side of the coin, I just watched how Lorelai dumped Max and she handled it so awfully and immaturely.  Really shamefully.  But I'm sure that opinion will be much less controversial.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Ms Blue Jay

[txhorns79]

But that's what the scene is literally all about.  Max demands that Lorelai talk about his involvement.  And she clarifies that it's basically almost none.  And I like that.   Max seemed really hurt by her opinion/decision though.  I find that weird.  Why would he care?  It was like he was just waiting for this opportunity to control a 16 year old girl in the way he wanted.

 

I would entirely agree that with a 16 year old, Max's role as a parent would be limited. Having said that, I don't think it's weird to expect you'll have some kind of parental involvement in this situation.  I can also see why it would be hurtful to be told your only role as a stepparent is to say "Wait until your mother gets home."  To me, I would see that as a declaration that my opinion was not valued, and that I had nothing to offer regarding that subject.  I also don't think it is a very realistic outlook, even with the most well behaved of teenagers.       

 

Also, if this was about Max's desire to control a teenager, he could easily do that at Chilton by making life miserable for his students with harsh rules and expectations for his class.          

[Kohola3]

Max seemed really hurt by her opinion/decision though.

 

I think it was less an issue of controlling a teen and more a issue of Lorelai blithely blowing him off about what he felt was an important issue.  This came after the whole key conundrum so he must have been feeling like a piece of extra baggage at that point.  They had never talked about anything of substance and the wedding was imminent.  They were both idiots.

[Guest]

I don't think there is anything wrong with a stepfather wanting to know if he can tell his teenage stepdaughter "No, you can't go out. It's 11 o'clock at night" if her mom wasn't around.  Also, what about issues that would affect him directly?  Rory decides to have friends over and they keep him up til 2 a.m.?  Lorelai is at the inn working a wedding. Sorry, he can't say he'd prefer them to leave.  He can only wait til Lorelai gets home.  Rory decides to listen to loud music while he's trying to work.  No, can't tell her to turn it down.  Has to wait for Lorelai. These are small examples, but not outside the bounds of teenage behavior.  It's not unreasonable for him to want to at least discuss how they would handle these things and not to appreciate when the answer was "you get no say."

 

Honestly, Lorelai didn't want to make room for him in her and Rory's life. It was like she said in Season 2 that she had her Stars Hollow World and her Chilton World (in Like Mother, Like Daughter) and she didn't like the two mixing. In this case, it was like she had her Max World and her Rory World, and she didn't want them to mix. And the Rory world would always take precedent.

 

TBH, I thought she had the same problem in Season 7.  God forbid Christopher try to create new Christmas traditions for their family of 4. Things needed to be how they were with Rory.  And Gigi needs a room?  Silly, terrible, monstrous Chris assuming they would give her a room  - maybe the one that belonged to the daughter who moved out?  

[Betweenyouandme]

In a season 7 episode, Rory's two artsy friends are over at her house in SH. One opens the broom closet door, and says "here's Rory through the ages"- it's marks on the door, showing her height through the years. They point out one- 1991. She says, awww. 7 year old Rory.

[txhorns79]

Honestly, Lorelai didn't want to make room for him in her and Rory's life. It was like she said in Season 2 that she had her Stars Hollow World and her Chilton World (in Like Mother, Like Daughter) and she didn't like the two mixing. In this case, it was like she had her Max World and her Rory World, and she didn't want them to mix. And the Rory world would always take precedent.

 

In that sense, Lorelai was a clone of her mother.  She wanted her life to be a very specific way, and had a lot of difficulty dealing with anything or anyone who threatened to change whatever arrangement she had in place.  It helped doom her relationship with Max.      

[ghoulina]

All that said, I don't think the episode was meant to take that deep of a look at step-parenthood. I think the point was just to make it obvious that Lorelai liked the IDEA of being married to Max but hadn't actually thought about the reality of it. Or even wanted to think about the reality of it, it appeared.

 

That's really what it was. I think Max may have had a sense that Lorelei wasn't all that committed to the idea, and the issue with Rory gave him the impetus to bring the topic up. Yea, I do think that for the most part Rory was raised, and being such a good kid, she didn't really need any extra parenting. But....Max was going to be living there and I think it would be ridiculous for him to have NO say, EVER, in what goes on around there. Some basic guidelines should have been established. And it's both of their faults, really, that the topic was never brought up - but I think what hurt him more than anything was that when he asked Lorelei if she'd ever thought about these things she was all,  "No, not really". Wow. I never liked Max, not for her anyhow, but what a blow. It just showed she was, as you say, in love with the idea of Max and being married and all that - but she wasn't truly in love with him or ready to share her life with him. 

 

Lorelei actually had a really hard time sharing her life with anyone. I think that's often par for the course when a parent has been single for SO long. She never lived with a man. Ever. A lot of single parents lived with the father/mother of their child initially, but Lorelei never did. She was on her own from day one and always did things her way. After 16 years, that's a hard habit to break. So I don't really find it odd that she had such a hard time with it, but with Max she didn't even seem to WANT to try. 

[dustylil]

Betweenyouandme, I have known some families that have moved their children's height measuring board from house to house. Given how sentimental Lorelai was regarding all things Rory, it wouldn't surprise me that she too might do something like that.

[Betweenyouandme]

Betweenyouandme, I have known some families that have moved their children's height measuring board from house to house. Given how sentimental Lorelai was regarding all things Rory, it wouldn't surprise me that she too might do something like that.

Sure, I thought about that. It looked like it was on the actual closet door, though, and not sure if it would have been obvious if she swapped out a door from the shed. Maybe she did and it fit, and she just painted it to match. Not sure how many inside doors the shed had.