Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[saylubee]

2 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

But I have to say how struck I was by how Jill just left Izzy by the clothes rack like he was  an article of clothing that had fallen down off one of the hangers.  Could have been editing making it look bad, but we are talking about Michelle 2.0 here.  Izzy is a Giant White Baby and might have been too heavy to lift, but she could have at least told him it was time to go.  I guess she figured that Driftwood, Mima, or one of The Lost Girls would watch over him/was already in the room with him?  You don't  just go shopping and leave your baby on the floor like that!

Jill did say "Chacho vamos" or "vamanos".  Now she didn't stop and turn around to make sure he was following.  Joy did turn and look down but didn't stop forward movement.  It's not the best parenting she could have done, but she didn't straight up ignore him.

[RazzleberryPie]

I just had a thought: Dear Jenni and Jordyn, even Jana, 

When you're legal, you can come and live with us, and we will help you finish high school and then hook you up with a hospital near us that pays its CNAs to go to a 2 yr RN school in exchange for a 3 year commitment to the hospital. You can then go on to become a REAL nurse midwife while you are working. A REAL nurse midwife with a real master's degree and certification. Eat that, Jill, and your ridiculous drop out lay midwifery BS. 

Sincerely,

The Razz Family

Jill seems to have zero affection or attachment to Izzy. I wish they'd just leave him with Cathy. 

[Christina87]

3 hours ago, Normades said:

Have to jump in here with my own son's experience.  Believe it!!  My son had vomiting/gastro problems since he was a teen.  We went from doctor to doctor and had many tests without diagnosis, except keep trying to eat, calm down, it's stress.  Finally when things really got bad and  he was in and out of the ER, a urologist saved his life by noticing a finding on a CT scan.  He told us to look into that finding.  It was not something we would have know to look at and doctors wrote it off as a positional finding because the problem he ended up being diagnosed with is so rare and usually found in teenage girls.  He got to the point of being unable to eat solid food or keep himself hydrated and we almost lost him a couple of times last year.  It took one smart doctor who wasn't even a specialist in that field to point out the strange finding and for us to basically tell the doctors what to look for to get him the help he needed.  Even armed with those test results there were doctors who told us there was no way he had that condition.  Eventually after going to high profile hospitals and pushing hard for help, he had surgery and is doing very well.  Getting good healthcare isn't easy and don't always think it's the patient/family who is not trying to get help.  There are a lot of condescending medical staff out there who will act like you know nothing.  I can't tell you how many times I've told healthcare workers about his conditions and they act like they know all about it, but then they say things that I know are completely wrong.  When you get a doctor that admits he doesn't know it all, that is someone who is good.  

I hope D gets the help he needs.  He certainly has some of the symptoms my son had, but who knows what's going on with him.  Many people heaped judgement on my son and myself for not "fixing" it right away.  Our society has just so much patience for health issues and when they're aren't resolved after a short time, people seem to get tired of hearing it and want to move on.  It's a hard situation to be in, and I feel a lot of guilt because my son had to suffer for so long, but honestly I don't know what else we could have done.  My point is, maybe D and his mother have been trying to figure out what's wrong (I hope so).  I do doubt Duggar influence will help his (or any) health situation, tho.

YES to your last paragraph!!!! I have extremely severe migraines (pain, nausea, vomiting, can't see, can't move my arm or most of my face, pain in those locations also, dizziness that persists for days after said migraine, or months if I get more than one in a week), and you're right...people only have so much patience. Sometimes I'll have a horrifying outbreak where I have two migraines a day for three or four days, which messes me up for weeks. Everybody at work is so sympathetic, but the sympathy ends when I come back, feeling like I've been through a war, with vision problems and constant dizziness, and of course the fear that I'll get another one. I hate having to do my (exhausting) job like nothing's wrong, and having to worry about what happens when another one comes. Going to the chiropractor regularly helps prevent outbreaks, and Imitrex usually helps tame it substantially, but outbreaks will leave my body ravaged. Sometimes I cry hysterically because I am just too tired to suffer through another one. The attitude that everything should be "fine" after a three-day absence from work is irritating. I had a bad outbreak last fall, and spent the first four months of the school year feeling constantly dizzy, with a different visual surprise every day (everything looks too close or far away, objects change shapes, colors are off in one of a dozen ways, etc.). I so wish people would understand it's not just a headache that I'm too much of a wimp to deal

with!

9 hours ago, Nysha said:

This is my fear. Both parents seem to resent Israel. If they bond with Samuel, he'll be the golden child and Israel will be the scapegoat who just can't get anything right no matter how hard he tries. Since he's the oldest, it will be easy to justify punishing him more severely and for things the younger one does, since he should have known better and stopped him. 

Or, I may be projecting my role as the resented child onto Israel and in reality he's loved and cherished as all children should be.

I totally see this happening, and in this case, Cathy will have to step up and be his solace. I was loved equally as much as my sister, but my parents were so guilty of the trap of, "you're in trouble, but she's too young to know better," when she was only two years younger. Talking to my grandma about it always helped, because she always agreed that it was unfair. It was never a serious enough issue for her to step in, I don't think, but having a family member on my side meant the world. 

[Marigold]

43 minutes ago, saylubee said:

Jill did say "Chacho vamos" or "vamanos".  Now she didn't stop and turn around to make sure he was following.  Joy did turn and look down but didn't stop forward movement.  It's not the best parenting she could have done, but she didn't straight up ignore him.

I did hear her say "vamanos" so she did direct him to come along.

What got me was how emotionally disconnected she was to Izzy and even the sisters

[humbleopinion]

Jillus is jealous of anyone who takes any of Djerick's love/attention away from her...even her own kid.

Djerick and his brother went through a death of a parent together and now the illness of their mother...so there is a depth of sibling shared past that Jilly has no clue.

Jill had Djerk's total affection for about a minute from courtship until the wedding until she got preggers.

Resentment, disappointment, and envy affects Jill's parenting...that is why you see the camera catching her not always smiling that pasted on grin...

[Marigold]

7 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Jillus is jealous of anyone who takes any of Djerick's love/attention away from her...even her own kid.

 

Good observation. 

[Pinke]

23 hours ago, WhineandCheez said:

It's been oh-so-very vague and hard to pick up.  Not like Derrick posted on how MANIPULATIVE AND SINFUL his toddler child was for asking for a cookie while telling him he loved Daddy, or anything like that.  (shudders at Izzy's horrible human nature)

Fair point. I agree that one is very blatant. I didn't have this in mind when I wrote my post. Was this from a blog post/something from social media? It seems like they are revealing more of their general assholery and how fucked up they (and their beliefs/notions) are on those platforms, whereas with TLC we get scenes where a lot is unsaid but it still manages to raise a lot of red flags.

[Christina87]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Still not finished watching the Joy wedding episode.  Have to send my headship out on an errand or something to get the last half hour of it.

But I have to say how struck I was by how Jill just left Izzy by the clothes rack like he was  an article of clothing that had fallen down off one of the hangers.  Could have been editing making it look bad, but we are talking about Michelle 2.0 here.  Izzy is a Giant White Baby and might have been too heavy to lift, but she could have at least told him it was time to go.  I guess she figured that Driftwood, Mima, or one of The Lost Girls would watch over him/was already in the room with him?  You don't  just go shopping and leave your baby on the floor like that!

Got so tired of hearing Moaning Muffy just droning on with that dead eyed wooden stare and nothing interesting to say.  She's hard to watch.  The fact that she's boring, preachy, sanctimonious, and all around tiresome doesn't keep me from noticing that there's something very off kilter about her.

Last paragraph is so true. She reminds me sooooo much of that awful Grace character from the Secret Life of the American Teenager. They should have just let Jill play the part, because she is so preachy, one-note, and wooden, just like the character was supposed to be...that is, before she became a skank and all of the characters basically turned into one person. But I digress. When that show was on, I didn't think anyone in real life was actually like that. Oh how wrong I was!

[Natalie68]

10 hours ago, Nysha said:

This is my fear. Both parents seem to resent Israel. If they bond with Samuel, he'll be the golden child and Israel will be the scapegoat who just can't get anything right no matter how hard he tries. Since he's the oldest, it will be easy to justify punishing him more severely and for things the younger one does, since he should have known better and stopped him. 

Or, I may be projecting my role as the resented child onto Israel and in reality he's loved and cherished as all children should be.

This could be complete bs and I am pulling this out of my rear but would Izzy being the oldest boy be part of it?  Jill had a very bad experience with the oldest boy of her family.  I am leaning towards this being bs but it did pop into my head.

[sometimesy]

Jill and Derp go get your heads fixed. If you don't, ok, live in misery I don't give a shit, but now you are not a victim. You are victimizers. Take care of your helpless child. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by sometimesy

[Scarlett45]

13 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

This could be complete bs and I am pulling this out of my rear but would Izzy being the oldest boy be part of it?  Jill had a very bad experience with the oldest boy of her family.  I am leaning towards this being bs but it did pop into my head.

It could be? Jill could see him as a potential abuser- didn't she mention that she was going to put practices in place to stop that from happening in her own family. 

 

Again, I don't have any personal experience with that type of situation (thankfully) but I have seen cases of mothers making normal child development hyper sexual (pre-pubescent kids of the opposite sex playing alone together, an innocent pre-teen crush as a violence) because they were sexually abused as children so they project in an effort to keep their children safe?

[JoanArc]

Quote

It could be? Jill could see him as a potential abuser-

 No could about it, she was already talking about putting safeguards in place to prevent him from abusing other children she might have when he was a month old. Her isssues with Izzy started at birth. Michelle was not a good role model. Remember when everyone thought Jill was going to be ultra mom? I 'member.

[Marigold]

25 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

This could be complete bs and I am pulling this out of my rear but would Izzy being the oldest boy be part of it?  Jill had a very bad experience with the oldest boy of her family.  I am leaning towards this being bs but it did pop into my head.

That is interesting.  Jill has always been close with her SISTERS in her buddy group. 

Now that I think about it, has Jill been emotionally close with a brother?????   I'm going through all the J names and I can't remember her goofing or laughing or sharing life with a brother. 

Izzy is a male.  Maybe she would've preferred a daughter? 

[Natalie68]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

It could be? Jill could see him as a potential abuser- didn't she mention that she was going to put practices in place to stop that from happening in her own family. 

 

Again, I don't have any personal experience with that type of situation (thankfully) but I have seen cases of mothers making normal child development hyper sexual (pre-pubescent kids of the opposite sex playing alone together, an innocent pre-teen crush as a violence) because they were sexually abused as children so they project in an effort to keep their children safe?

She did speak about that.   Girl needs some therapy.  Not construction work or other non therapeutic treatment but REAL therapy.  She has more to think of that just herself these days.  No life in those eyes.

1 minute ago, Marigold said:

That is interesting.  Jill has always been close with her SISTERS in her buddy group. 

Now that I think about it, has Jill been emotionally close with a brother?????   I'm going through all the J names and I can't remember her goofing or laughing or sharing life with a brother. 

Izzy is a male.  Maybe she would've preferred a daughter? 

I don't recall her being close to brothers either.  Hmmm...

[Marigold]

6 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

She did speak about that.   Girl needs some therapy.  Not construction work or other non therapeutic treatment but REAL therapy.  She has more to think of that just herself these days.  No life in those eyes.

Gosh, i had forgotten about that.  How freaking disgustingly disturbed to see your infant son as a potential molester! 

I am seeing things in a new light with Jill and Izzy. 

I feel sick for all of them. This is how abuse just keeps cycling through generations. 

To have your mother say, on camera, that she will be putting safety guards in place so her son doesn't molest anyone??????  That is so disturbed.  Such an unhealthy mother...so emotionally abusive to have your own mother think that of you, as an infant. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Marigold
confusing sentences

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, Marigold said:

I was just thinking about Jill/Derick and Jinger/Jeremy.

Really, aren't they doing the same thing, just in different locations?

Jeremy stays in the apartment and writes his masterpiece sermon while Jinger cooks and does some laundry. Jeremy doesn't appear to be "ministering" much to anyone or maintaining the church building etc. 

Derick seems to lurk around in Danger America most of the day.  Jill has posted that Derick preaches once a week.  It appears that they do little in terms of humanitarian work.  Jill is home with Izzy, cooks and does laundry.  

It's really the SAME life!  OK, that's really bizarre when you think about it. 

Not to mention Jessa/Bin, who are also doing the same thing. It's just that Bin doesn't even have the level of job that Der and Jer have, so he has to flit out and clean a toilet every now and then before he comes back to post his pastoral homework on Instagram and Twitter, where he preaches (except for the occasional foray out to a podium with Voddie Baucham on it)

Any time we fool ourselves into speculating that maybe Jer, Bin and Der didn't really want this kind of life or that Jim Bob didn't really choose this for his daughters, we should think of these three nearly identical images. Obviously all four of these headships envisaged this deep down inside, and they made it happen.     Why they would all want it, especially Jim Bob for whom it could end up being a superhuge financial burden, I can't really figure it. But want it they did, seems to me. 

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I completely believe it. That's pretty much been my experience when it comes to doctors and my family's medical problems or my own. It is incredible how hard it is to find doctors who will listen and help.

Plus the fact that we -- and the medical community -- want to believe that modern medicine has a quite complete understanding of the possibilities of the human body. But of course they don't. It's too darned complex for that, too much opportunity for individual differences, too much for any one practitioner, no matter how good and well intentioned, to be aware of. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

This could be complete bs and I am pulling this out of my rear but would Izzy being the oldest boy be part of it?  Jill had a very bad experience with the oldest boy of her family.  I am leaning towards this being bs but it did pop into my head.

Well, you know, I don't think it's out of the question that this could play a role. Just like I have a feeling that postpartum depression may have played a role. Anything like this is going to be dang complicated, and especially so in a family and cult that doesn't believe in psychology or being honest about your feelings or talking things through. I expect that a pile of things made Jill behave the way she's behaving. Because I really don't think it could possibly be intentional in any way. She was the good sister mom -- and we know that because her sibling-kids attest to it. Neither Jill nor Derick would have set out to be a cold parent. Tragedy is that in the milieu they live in they'll probably never get any counseling or help for it or even good useful conversation with other parents they know about the problems they face. 

Just like the rest of the gang, it would help them and their kids immeasurably if they would walk away from this cult and its crippling shit and find out how other people handle things. They won't, however. ........At least not until TTH STOPS AIRING THE DAMN SHOW and the MONEY stops flowing in!!!

1 hour ago, Marigold said:

That is interesting.  Jill has always been close with her SISTERS in her buddy group. 

Now that I think about it, has Jill been emotionally close with a brother?????   I'm going through all the J names and I can't remember her goofing or laughing or sharing life with a brother. 

Izzy is a male.  Maybe she would've preferred a daughter? 

I forget which of the brothers was in her group. James maybe? But she was pretty close with her little sibling brother, too, as I recall. And after she was courting and married, they were shown together, she worked with him on his (three-years-behind-schedule) math flash cards and so on. .... Now whether she was as comfortable with him as she was with the little sisters, I don't know. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Marigold]

32 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, you know, I don't think it's out of the question that this could play a role. Just like I have a feeling that postpartum depression may have played a role. Anything like this is going to be dang complicated, and especially so in a family and cult that doesn't believe in psychology or being honest about your feelings or talking things through. I expect that a pile of things made Jill behave the way she's behaving. Because I really don't think it could possibly be intentional in any way. She was the good sister mom -- and we know that because her sibling-kids attest to it. Neither Jill nor Derick would have set out to be a cold parent. Tragedy is that in the milieu they live in they'll probably never get any counseling or help for it or even good useful conversation with other parents they know about the problems they face. 

Just like the rest of the gang, it would help them and their kids immeasurably if they would walk away from this cult and its crippling shit and find out how other people handle things. They won't, however. ........At least not until TTH STOPS AIRING THE DAMN SHOW and the MONEY stops flowing in!!!

I forget which of the brothers was in her group. James maybe? But she was pretty close with her little sibling brother, too, as I recall. And after she was courting and married, they were shown together, she worked with him on his (three-years-behind-schedule) math flash cards and so on. .... Now whether she was as comfortable with him as she was with the little sisters, I don't know. 

That is true.  James was in her buddy group. She was warm and affectionate with him.

No older brothers though, right?  Like Jana & JD are close.  Jinger seems to be close with a few of her peer brothers who I can't tell apart.  Joy was always close with that what's his name J brother, the boy that is almost her age? Also, Joy was obviously comfortable with Joe, letting him propose at her wedding. 

Jill?  i can't remember Jill having a peer brother like a friend.  Just clinging onto the little girls and tight with the olders.  Come to think of it, I don't remember her speaking to Ben or Jeremy either.  Jinger and Ben are friendly.  jessa and Jeremy are friendly.  Joy seems to be friendly with everyone and was comfortable with meeting Jeremy at the airport alone.  Jill?  She avoids men and male friendships.   Wow. I never noticed that before...interesting stuff.   

Who knows, maybe that is why Jill is known as a tattle tale.  She must like rules and order; gets upset when rules are broken.  Can't imagine why.  :(

[Scarlett45]

14 minutes ago, Marigold said:

That is true.  James was in her buddy group. She was warm and affectionate with him.

No older brothers though, right?  Like Jana & JD are close.  Jinger seems to be close with a few of her peer brothers who I can't tell apart.  Joy was always close with that what's his name J brother, the boy that is almost her age? Also, Joy was obviously comfortable with Joe, letting him propose at her wedding. 

Jill?  i can't remember Jill having a peer brother like a friend.  Just clinging onto the little girls and tight with the olders.  Come to think of it, I don't remember her speaking to Ben or Jeremy either.  Jinger and Ben are friendly.  jessa and Jeremy are friendly.  Joy seems to be friendly with everyone and was comfortable with meeting Jeremy at the airport alone.  Jill?  She avoids men and male friendships.   Wow. I never noticed that before...interesting stuff.   

Who knows, maybe that is why Jill is known as a tattle tale.  She must like rules and order; gets upset when rules are broken.  Can't imagine why.  :(

Yeah I have noticed this too. Jinger and Joe are close. Joy is close with Joe and was BFFs with Josiah. Jana and JD are close. 

You are right that both Jinger and Jessa can have a "small talk" conversation with a male peer and be comfortable. I have NOT seen Jill do that at all. Yes we do only get a snippet of screen time with each person but we have been watching them for years. I wonder how she acts around Derrick's brother. 

[GeeGolly]

If Jill is going to be triggered by parallel events it's more likely to happen when her children are at a similar age she was when the molestation happened or she observes a similar (improper or innocent) behavior between her children.

Like Churchie said, it's likely not one thing. I'm thinking the first 2 years of Jill's marriage was filled with many realities that disappointed her. I think the first year was manageable because she was so involved in her pregnancy and she probably assumed Derick would stop working the minute Izzy was born, because, well because I think Jill has a poor grasp of the way the real world works.

Jill's delivery was not what she expected and I thinks it's likely she had PPD and could possibly still be depressed. Also, she was isolated very early in Izzy's first year of life, in a foreign country.  I'm guessing true motherhood also isn't what Jill expected, because it's not the same as being a sister mom.

And Michelle totally detached from her children at 6 months and Jill is probably, and I think unknowingly, emulating her mother.

Of all the sisters I think Jill was/is the most immature.

[Clemgo3165]

2 hours ago, PinkyCupcake said:

Fair point. I agree that one is very blatant. I didn't have this in mind when I wrote my post. Was this from a blog post/something from social media? It seems like they are revealing more of their general assholery and how fucked up they (and their beliefs/notions) are on those platforms, whereas with TLC we get scenes where a lot is unsaid but it still manages to raise a lot of red flags.

I don't remember Derick calling Izzy sinful in that message. He did use manipulative, and toddlers generally ARE manipulative. I've always read his tweets and instagrams as someone who has little experience with small children and so is surprised/confused/bothered by his child's actions even though his behavior is completely normal. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

Remember when we had hopes that Derrick would sort of help 'normalize' Jill since he had graduated from a real college and had an actual job working for corporate Wal-Mart? But then he quickly threw that away when he realized he'd make a more comfortable living scamming people out of money for a 'ministry'.  Wow, he's so far the most disappointing mate to marry into the clan. We all knew Ben was a horny teenage idiot, so the bar for him was low. Jeremy seems like a douchebag who gets off on having his ego stroked with 'his' church. Jury is out on Austin and Kendra since we haven't seen much of them on the show. And Anna... well Anna is a whole other topic. 

[PikaScrewChu]

I believe Jill thought married life would be just like her parents'. Kim Jong Bob and Michelle can be criticized for a lot of things but they are still clearly in love with each other. She fails to realize that JB and Michelle were free to pick each other and had a relatively normal dating experience. Yes, Michelle brings up the guilt about sinful things she did but at least Michelle clearly had other opportunities. They didn't have to have chaperones or accountability buddies. And had JB and Michelle found they were not compatible after a bit they could have gone their separate ways.

Jilly Muffin married the first man she came into contact with that Daddy Dearest approved of. Once she said yes to the courtship, she said yes to being married. She had to have supervised visits with him so they couldn't really get to know each other. They rushed into marriage. She got pregnant on essentially the first try. So she's dealing with a pregnancy and "getting to know" Dullard without someone peering over her shoulder to make sure none of that front hugging business is going on. Dullard was dealing with his mother being diagnosed with cancer. They had basically no time to get to know each other. Add that onto Jill's upbringing which was to keep her as under-educated and sheltered as possible and it was a perfect storm.

I don't think they are happy with each other but will never admit it. Had this been the "real world" Jill and Dullard would have gone on a few dates, realized they weren't compatible, and gone their separate ways. Jill was denied the experience and freedom her parents had in choosing her partner. She can barely do math so I doubt she'd ever put two and two together.

Yet another failure of the "courtship" system.

Edited June 16, 2017 by PikaScrewChu

[Churchhoney]

45 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Of all the sisters I think Jill was/is the most immature.

And when you add that to the fact that she had the most to deal with because she moved to another country where she doesn't speak the language and because, unlike Jessa, she didn't have a stay-at-home husband early on, that could become a pretty big deficit, even if she's only a little bit less mature. 

[Marigold]

Jill and Jessa have different coping skills.  

jessa's bitchiness is how she handles things.  She represses her stuff. Fights it off.   Jill is more fragile.  Maybe emotionally stunted from her trauma. 

[Pinke]

31 minutes ago, Clemgo3165 said:

I don't remember Derick calling Izzy sinful in that message. He did use manipulative, and toddlers generally ARE manipulative. I've always read his tweets and instagrams as someone who has little experience with small children and so is surprised/confused/bothered by his child's actions even though his behavior is completely normal. 

I don't remember the exact wording myself (except for manipulative); was just replying to the general idea of WhineandCheez's post.

There is definitely some of that, however I do feel like there is also an undercurrent of hostile rigidity with Derick (regarding Israel). Hopefully he'll improve as a parent and adjust his expectations (I'm not holding my breah though).

[GeeGolly]

9 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Jill and Jessa have different coping skills.  

jessa's bitchiness is how she handles things.  She represses her stuff. Fights it off.   Jill is more fragile.  Maybe emotionally stunted from her trauma. 

Except really, what has Jessa had to cope with. Moving a few miles away from home into a house and neighborhood she's familiar with? Going home daily for help with her kids? Having a husband who pauses school to stay home with her? Having her 'friends' nearby?

I think we'd be seeing a different Jessa if she was over in CA during Spurgie's first year.

[Natalie68]

27 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I believe Jill thought married life would be just like her parents'. Kim Jong Bob and Michelle can be criticized for a lot of things but they are still clearly in love with each other. She fails to realize that JB and Michelle were free to pick each other and had a relatively normal dating experience. Yes, Michelle brings up the guilt about sinful things she did but at least Michelle clearly had other opportunities. They didn't have to have chaperones or accountability buddies. And had JB and Michelle found they were not compatible after a bit they could have gone their separate ways.

Jilly Muffin married the first man she came into contact with that Daddy Dearest approved of. Once she said yes to the courtship, she said yes to being married. She had to have supervised visits with him so they couldn't really get to know each other. They rushed into marriage. She got pregnant on essentially the first try. So she's dealing with a pregnancy and "getting to know" Dullard without someone peering over her shoulder to make sure none of that front hugging business is going on. Dullard was dealing with his mother being diagnosed with cancer. They had basically no time to get to know each other. Add that onto Jill's upbringing which was to keep her as under-educated and sheltered as possible and it was a perfect storm.

I don't think they are happy with each other but will never admit it. Had this been the "real world" Jill and Dullard would have gone on a few dates, realized they weren't compatible, and gone their separate ways. Jill was denied the experience and freedom her parents had in choosing her partner. She can barely do math so I doubt she'd ever put two and two together.

Yet another failure of the "courtship" system.

I read here the other day (and I think I had heard it before) that Derrick (I can never remember how to spell his name, so from here on out its Big D) had asked about Jana first.  I wonder if this ever bothers Jill?  If Mr. Natalie had asked for my sister first I couldn't help but feel like a runner up/less than.  I wonder if Big D has impure thoughts for Jana?

[GeeGolly]

13 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I read here the other day (and I think I had heard it before) that Derrick (I can never remember how to spell his name, so from here on out its Big D) had asked about Jana first.  I wonder if this ever bothers Jill?  If Mr. Natalie had asked for my sister first I couldn't help but feel like a runner up/less than.  I wonder if Big D has impure thoughts for Jana?

I think that was speculation.

[Natalie68]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think that was speculation.

I hope so!

[humbleopinion]

Calling the ever shrinking, wasting away Djerick The Big D is just mean...

Edited June 16, 2017 by humbleopinion

[Christina87]

It would have been weird if he'd asked for Jana and she'd said no, and then she stood there during the wedding thinking she'd dodged a bullet!

[humbleopinion]

Jana is sitting in the catbird seat and has a jaded eye as the marriages of her sisters play out in front of her eyes.

She not impressed yet.

Jana  avoided Josh's transgressions and marriage to anyone like her BILs.

She's good for the next 3months because JoeBlob and Kendy's wedding will suck up the attention away from her.

[ginger90]

53 minutes ago, PinkyCupcake said:

I don't remember the exact wording myself (except for manipulative); was just replying to the general idea of WhineandCheez's post.

 

Found it in a People article

“We really love being parents and I think just seeing, as a father specifically, like I enjoy seeing his development and being able to teach him new things,” Derick, 28, chimes in about the best part of watching their son grow up.

 

“He says ‘thank you’ now and he’s practicing his manners a lot more now,” Jill reveals.

 

But while their little boy is learning to say “no thank you” and “I love you,” he’s also mastered manipulation.

 

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-love-being-parents-far-from-mastering-it/

[GeeGolly]

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

 

Well Let's get rid of that right quick.

[ginger90]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

 

Well Let's get rid of that right quick.

That's the way It reads , doesn't it? Ugh

I liked how in the article, Derick "chimed in", while Jill, "reveals" !

[JoanArc]

You cannot expect adult cognition or behavior from a two-year-old.  Full. Fucking. Stop.  They are on a completely different plane than adults.  They will not respond in the same way as adults.  They can not. 

 I'd like to hollow out a Bible in place a child development textbook inside. Derick might accidentally read it!  These assholes have no grasp of reality whatsoever.

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

You cannot expect adult cognition or behavior from a two-year-old.  Full. Fucking. Stop.  They are on a completely different plane than adults.  They will not respond in the same way as adults.  They can not. 

 I'd like to hollow out a Bible in place a child development textbook inside. Derick might accidentally read it!  These assholes have no grasp of reality whatsoever.

Might be better to Tweet simple quotes and #derick.

[Celia Rubenstein]

58 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Except really, what has Jessa had to cope with. Moving a few miles away from home into a house and neighborhood she's familiar with? Going home daily for help with her kids? Having a husband who pauses school to stay home with her? Having her 'friends' nearby?

I think we'd be seeing a different Jessa if she was over in CA during Spurgie's first year.

Heaven forbid I disagree with anything you say, Baaaaaabe,  but I have to wonder about this.

I do think that you are right about how Jessa has not been nearly as challenged as Jill.  But another part of me thinks Jessa would just grab Danger America by the balls and have local people in as volunteers to clean her house and bringing her banana bread and fanning her with a palm frond, etc.  She would have ordered Bin to catch that shower rack before it hit the ground!  Cuz' she's kind of bossy and controlling and demanding strong like that.  She has a powerfulness about herself that Jill completely lacks.  

I actually think of all the grown kids, Jill is the most unsuited for this life as a (pretend) missionary which she has embarked upon.  Jana, Jinger ... hell even Joy would be better at it than Jill.  

 

4 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 Remember when everyone thought Jill was going to be ultra mom? I 'member.

Yeah, I remember that.  And I believe Jill thought she would be an ultra mom, too.  The reality has sure worked out quite differently, hasn't it?  She's not at all the baby machine Michelle is.  And she doesn't seem to enjoy being a mom at all, much less really rock as one.  It must suck to realize that the entire basis of the life you anticipated for yourself is one big groaning drag.  Add to that a "job" which has isolated her within a pseudo-ministry that she obviously dislikes, a crappy husband who doesn't treasure her the same way her father treasures her mother.  A history of abuse she cannot manage to put behind her. 

No wonder she is so visibly down in the dumps all the time.  

If she wasn't such a sanctimonious cow, I would be inclined to start a "free Jill" movement. 

[Mollie]

43 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

“We know that human nature is still there because he’s very manipulative,” says Derick. “He’ll say, ‘I love you, papi,’ like if he’s really trying to get something to butter you up right before he asks for something.”

 

Well Let's get rid of that right quick.

According to their way of thinking, humans are born sinful.  They stay sinful creatures until they are 'born again', when they are old enough to accept the Dillard's religion.  Remember that Jim Bob and Michelle used to beat the kids with a rod to get rid of their sinful nature and make them totally obedient to them.

[JoanArc]

6 minutes ago, Mollie said:

According to their way of thinking, humans are born sinful.  They stay sinful creatures until they are 'born again', when they are old enough to accept the Dillard's religion.  Remember that Jim Bob and Michelle used to beat the kids with a rod to get rid of their sinful nature and make them totally obedient to them.

I really wonder what they think about infants or toddlers going to hell. When's the age of accountability? Keep in mind they seem to consider 13 year olds full adults.

[queenanne]

13 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I really wonder what they think about infants or toddlers going to hell. When's the age of accountability? Keep in mind they seem to consider 13 year olds full adults.

I don't guarantee everyone thinks the same thing, but I read somewhere it's at least teenaged.  It can't be infants, I don't think even the Duggars could be that stupid.  A baby neither possesses nor can articulate thoughts and beliefs, which would logically be by intelligent design if you believe in that.

[JoanArc]

Quote

A baby neither possesses nor can articulate thoughts and beliefs,

Yet here they are criticizing a baby's capacity for sinfulness. I know Ben is a Calvinist so he's cool with infants in hell, but Derick is a bit more blurry.

[queenanne]

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

Yet here they are criticizing a baby's capacity for sinfulness. I know Ben is a Calvinist so he's cool with infants in hell, but Derick is a bit more blurry.

Yes, but I believe the person has to be deemed capable of at least understanding the difference between the constructs and consequences of a heaven or a hell, before they can be deemed to have "chosen" one or another.  I mean, we all know these people think God can read minds and wouldn't be posed by what a baby is "thinking", but a deity who created human nature would know a baby isn't capable of thinking anything, and would just assume the baby was a "win" in the plus column.

[Christina87]

I'm not sure why derrick is bothered that the human nature is "still" there. Still, at the ripe old age of two!!! Did he think it was as easy as one slap on the butt, and any trace of humanity would be gone for good?

[farmgal4]

57 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

I really wonder what they think about infants or toddlers going to hell. When's the age of accountability? Keep in mind they seem to consider 13 year olds full adults.

Most of the Baptists I know think the age of accountability is somewhere around 6-years-old.  I personally witnessed a 5-year-old go to the altar and "get saved".  I also heard the testimony of a pastor who claimed he was "saved" at age 4.

[Sew Sumi]

TFDW has them all beat. He claims that he was saved at age 3! Seriously. The only thing I remember doing when I was 3 was smashing a loose window pane against my shin, necessitating stitches and leaving a permanent scar to this day. 

[ginger90]

I "remember" being 3 years old because there are pictures!

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Yeah, I remember that.  And I believe Jill thought she would be an ultra mom, too.  The reality has sure worked out quite differently, hasn't it?  She's not at all the baby machine Michelle is.  And she doesn't seem to enjoy being a mom at all, much less really rock as one.  It must suck to realize that the entire basis of the life you anticipated for yourself is one big groaning drag.  Add to that a "job" which has isolated her within a pseudo-ministry that she obviously dislikes, a crappy husband who doesn't treasure her the same way her father treasures her mother.  A history of abuse she cannot manage to put behind her. 

No wonder she is so visibly down in the dumps all the time.  

If she wasn't such a sanctimonious cow, I would be inclined to start a "free Jill" movement. 

Jill is damned if she does here, damned if she doesn't. She's admitting defeat if she doesn't act sanctimonious. The best mom! The best wife! The best missionary! Anything less is admitting everything is wrong.

Jill is a prime example of everything wrong with the Duggars' system. It damns women to a pre-determined fate that they probably will not enjoy.

That being said she is an adult and can use the internet without supervision. She can start trying to think for herself at this point. The best we can hope for is that Dullard stops playing Mr. Missionary and lets Jilly Muffin be 5 minutes away from her family. At least for Izzy and the new baby's sake.

[Celia Rubenstein]

7 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Jill is damned if she does here, damned if she doesn't. She's admitting defeat if she doesn't act sanctimonious. The best mom! The best wife! The best missionary! Anything less is admitting everything is wrong.

I get that Jill can't actually come out and complain about anything because that would be tantamount to admitting her little cult-system is less than perfect.  But hell, man ...  does she have to be so freakin' condescending? She doesn't have to come out and admit she hates being a wife, mother, whatever ... just maybe just dial down the hubris a notch, like when talking about the smelly heathens she is forced to contend with in DA.  That would be a good start! 

 

Quote

That being said she is an adult and can use the internet without supervision. She can start trying to think for herself at this point. The best we can hope for is that Dullard stops playing Mr. Missionary and lets Jilly Muffin be 5 minutes away from her family. At least for Izzy and the new baby's sake.

But that, too, would be admitting that something is wrong.  Exploring the world online is to suggest she needs or wants more than life has handed her.  Can't have that!  Doing her own thinking suggests that her headship is inadequate.  Oh, the horror.  Such thinking is forbidden! 

Funny how the whole system is set up to keep her a prisoner, isn't it? 

It would take someone with real guts to risk the blowback that would be incurred by questioning how things work or trying to step out of that little box.  Jill doesn't have that kind of guts.  And the only way Dullard will give up his Missionary Man fantasies is if Jill put her foot down hard.  She doesn't have that kind of feet, either, unfortunately. 

I wish there was a way to DONATE! some feet or guts to her via that little red button on her website.  That's what she really needs!