Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[BitterApple]

I see that Jana is on nanny duty. That didn't take long.

[poopchute]

Dr Jill is back in action!

 

[Fuzzysox]

At least Jill is doing something ^^^^^^ and enjoying helping to deliver vs. being all clingy.

[JoanArc]

Derrick must be relieved to be rid of her for a few hours. Hope the malpractice insurance is payed up.

[Sew Sumi]

She got her license last year around this time, then pretty much immediately went back to Danger America. I think this is the first baby she's helped deliver (of course she wasn't the primary; she hasn't been home long enough) since she graduated. I think the Query woman is also licensed now; I bet Jill tagged along with her. 

[Pollypam]

Ok, something is fishy. Was Iz on a plane with Jana and Michelle while Jill was at home "delivering" a baby???

[lascuba]

55 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Derrick must be relieved to be rid of her for a few hours. Hope the malpractice insurance is payed up.

Who needs malpractice insurance when Jesus is on your side?

[Sew Sumi]

Well, I called the midwife wrong. JILL WAS WITH VENESSA! You remember her; she's the one who Jill apprenticed under and was later run out of AR due to her dangerous practices.  Here's proof (the IG account checks back to Venessa, but it's private, so this is the best I can do):

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[lascuba]

Huh, wasn't it Venessa who criticized Jessa's birth? Is Jim Bob paying her to be Jill's friend again?

[Sew Sumi]

7 minutes ago, Pollypam said:

Ok, something is fishy. Was Iz on a plane with Jana and Michelle while Jill was at home "delivering" a baby???

Awwwww, give Jilly a break. She's so exhausted raising that kid that she needs a break!!!!!111 Seriously, who does this? 

[Readalot]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

Awwwww, give Jilly a break. She's so exhausted raising that kid that she needs a break!!!!!111 Seriously, who does this? 

Someone who is at her wits end with PPD? 

[Minivanessa]

18 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She got her license last year around this time, then pretty much immediately went back to Danger America. I think this is the first baby she's helped deliver (of course she wasn't the primary; she hasn't been home long enough) since she graduated. I think the Query woman is also licensed now; I bet Jill tagged along with her. 

IIRC Jill completed a course of study with an organization that granted her a certificate of some kind, but I didn't remember that she obtained an Arkansas Lay Midwife license as well. Even if she did, she's not licensed now.

I just looked at the Arkansas Department of Health website page about Lay Midwifery. There's link there to a list of licensed Lay Midwives as of September 1, 2016 - which is here. Jill's name is not on it. Nor is she on the list of Lay Midwife Apprentices. 

[Sew Sumi]

IANAD, but I think all of us here agree that Jilly Muffin suffered PPD to some degree, but Izzy is almost 17 months old. Shouldn't she be over something "post-partum" by now? 

Of course, she could suffer from "regular" depression, but it didn't stop her from hooking up with Venessa two weeks after returning to AR to deliver a baby. I can't believe anyone still uses Venessa; her malpractice was a well-publicized story. No way she got her license back in AR, unless they are stupid enough to suspend someone for a period of time, then allow them to come back. If that's the case, AR is a really, really stupid state in yet another way. 

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

IIRC Jill completed a course of study with an organization that granted her a certificate of some kind, but I didn't remember that she obtained an Arkansas Lay Midwife license as well. Even if she did, she's not licensed now.

I just looked at the Arkansas Department of Health website page about Lay Midwifery. There's link there to a list of licensed Lay Midwives as of September 1, 2016 - which is here. Jill's name is not on it. Nor is she on the list of Lay Midwife Apprentices. 

They claimed she got her lay midwife certification (can't remember the acronym off the top of my head). Yet another Duggar Lie, and they even threw a party for this one! 

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, Sew Sumi said:

IANAD, but I think all of us here agree that Jilly Muffin suffered PPD to some degree, but Izzy is almost 17 months old. Shouldn't she be over something "post-partum" by now? 

Of course, she could suffer from "regular" depression, but it didn't stop her from hooking up with Venessa two weeks after returning to AR to deliver a baby. I can't believe anyone still uses Venessa; her malpractice was a well-publicized story. No way she got her license back in AR, unless they are stupid enough to suspend someone for a period of time, then allow them to come back. If that's the case, AR is a really, really stupid state in yet another way. 

Plenty of lay midwives practice without being licensed. It's easy to get away with if they're lucky enough that they don't get reported. 

But do we know that Venessa is in Arkansas? Maybe Jill traveled to her. 

[Vaysh]

Quote

Awwwww, give Jilly a break. She's so exhausted raising that kid that she needs a break!!!!!111 Seriously, who does this? 

Venessa's malpractices aside, Jill being away from Izzy and Derrick is not a bad thing at all IMO. Israel is well over a year old and most children would be at daycare at this point because their parents go to work. Izzy still has daddy with him on this trip, plus nanny Jana. I do wish Jill had a different "job" where she wouldn't endanger other women's lives, but I do applaud her for leaving the fold and acting like an independent person, even just for a little bit.

[Minivanessa]

There's a chart here about the different kinds of midwife certifications in the US.

Jill may have received certification from the North American Registry of Midwives, which as noted on that page I cited, requires no college degree. I went to the NARM website but couldn't find a link to search their registry, so I don't know if Jill's on it. There may be some other association that certifies midwives, but as we know Jill doesn't have a college degree, and at most has a GED (if that) so whatever program she completed would at the very most provide a basis for her getting a lay midwife license in Arkansas. 

ETA: Venessa isn't a licensed lay midwife in Arkansas. A woman with the last name Query is licensed.  

And I recall a photo last year, of Jill clutching a certificate of some kind. IIRC Derick proudly captioned it and mentioned the certification. I don't recall any mention that she'd been licensed as well as getting that certification. (In my so-called career I've been involved in state licensure/regulation of various occupations so I'm usually quite alert to those issues. Just as a law degree doesn't equal a license to practice law, or an accounting degree doesn't equal a CPA license, a certification from a midwife association doesn't equal a state license to practice midwifery in Arkansas. In all three of those situations, you have to apply for and be granted the license to practice - as a lawyer, or a CPA, or a lay midwife - by the state.) Anyway, the Duggars probably didn't lie about her getting the certificate.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Jeeves

[Sew Sumi]

17 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

Venessa's malpractices aside, Jill being away from Izzy and Derrick is not a bad thing at all IMO. Israel is well over a year old and most children would be at daycare at this point because their parents go to work. Izzy still has daddy with him on this trip, plus nanny Jana. I do wish Jill had a different "job" where she wouldn't endanger other women's lives, but I do applaud her for leaving the fold and acting like an independent person, even just for a little bit.

Derick is not on the "wedding planning trip." The only people I've seen are Mechelle, Jana, Joy, Jinger, and Izzy. 

Isn't the OK border really close to them? I suspect that Venessa is practicing there, and Jill could very easily have traveled to her. 

eta: I am pretty sure Derick called her a lay midwife (or used the acronym that I still can't remember). That part would apparently, through your crack research, be the Duggar Lie to which I'm referring. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[SMama]

Was it CPM?

[TaxNerd]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Well, I called the midwife wrong. JILL WAS WITH VENESSA! You remember her; she's the one who Jill apprenticed under and was later run out of AR due to her dangerous practices.  Here's proof (the IG account checks back to Venessa, but it's private, so this is the best I can do):

 

Strange, isn't Plexus a mid level marketing scheme?

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, Plexus is the latest MLM craze amongst fundies. I guess they've moved on from the essential oils fad. 

And yes, CPM is the acronym I was looking for. I understand it as the equivalent to a lay midwife, but feel free to correct me. 

[Vaysh]

Quote

Derick is not on the "wedding planning trip." The only people I've seen are Mechelle, Jana, Joy, Jinger, and Izzy. 

Aside from not appearing on any photos, do we know Derrick isn't on the trip? Is there something I've missed, where he appeared elsewhere?

Letting your kid go off on a plane trip without either parent sounds like a strange thing to do but then again, it's the Duggars.

[Sew Sumi]

They specified that it's a "wedding planning trip." Why on earth would Dreck be with all the Duggar female kidults and his MIL? Makes no sense. Additionally, he has no ties to Jer's family; I don't think he's ever met them. 

Not there. I can guarantee it. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

I found this online....thought you all would get a kick out of this!

[lascuba]

It

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yes, Plexus is the latest MLM craze amongst fundies. I guess they've moved on from the essential oils fad. 

And yes, CPM is the acronym I was looking for. I understand it as the equivalent to a lay midwife, but feel free to correct me. 

Lay midwives refer to midwifes without formal, accredited education, so in the US everything except CNM and CM fall under the umbrella of lay midwifery. 

[JoanArc]

Who brings a random baby on a wedding planning trip. Maybe Michelle has gone around the bend and will only appear with babies in public from now on. The back muscle grew back.

[Arwen Evenstar]

12 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Is Jill sitting on Derrick's lap in that picture?  Should I be scandalized?

I was defrauded by it!

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

IIRC Jill completed a course of study with an organization that granted her a certificate of some kind, but I didn't remember that she obtained an Arkansas Lay Midwife license as well. Even if she did, she's not licensed now.

She finished her correspondence course and passed the lay midwife (er hm so-called certified professional midwife) organization exam.  I never found her listed as licensed in Arkansas either. 

 

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

They claimed she got her lay midwife certification (can't remember the acronym off the top of my head). Yet another Duggar Lie, and they even threw a party for this one! 

Not technically a lie this time.  She passed the ridiculously easy test.  I passed the practice test without ever opening a midwife textbook.  I even got a high score.  :)

35 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

And yes, CPM is the acronym I was looking for. I understand it as the equivalent to a lay midwife, but feel free to correct me. 

Yes, the lay midwives got together and came up with an organization and a title.

[Sew Sumi]

I see it as a deception, since as you guys are saying, she passed an exam, but never achieved licensure. Derick definitely implied that Jill could deliver babies that very day. I was thinking more of my grad school studies in education that would license me as a teacher as long as I passed the state test; all of the other requirements, including field work and student teaching, were built into the curriculum. 

But then, I attended a very highly respected, accredited university and not Diploma Mill U in Texas, which was Jill's overseeing body for her "studies," IIRC. 

[GeeGolly]

7 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I see it as a deception, since as you guys are saying, she passed an exam, but never achieved licensure. Derick definitely implied that Jill could deliver babies that very day. I was thinking more of my grad school studies in education that would license me as a teacher as long as I passed the state test; all of the other requirements, including field work and student teaching, were built into the curriculum. 

But then, I attended a very highly respected, accredited university and not Diploma Mill U in Texas, which was Jill's overseeing body for her "studies," IIRC. 

Same here. In my field of Social Work/Mental Health, we can't sit for a test without completing the requirements, which include graduating from an accredited Master's program and working full-time for a minimum of two years in the mental health field. Only then can one take the licensure exam. After that, over the course of every 2 years we need to fulfill education unit requirements before we can renew our licenses.

It's actually considered unethical to refer to oneself as a Clinician before completing a Master's. Until then the title of Counselor should only be used.

They toss the title of Midwife around so casually. I'm sure legit Midwives are bothered by that.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Same here. In my field of Social Work/Mental Health, we can't sit for a test without completing the requirements, which include graduating from an accredited Master's program and working full-time for a minimum of two years in the mental health field. Only then can one take the licensure exam. After that, over the course of every 2 years we need to fulfill education unit requirements before we can renew our licenses.

It's actually considered unethical to refer to oneself as a Clinician before completing a Master's. Until then the title of Counselor should only be used.

They toss the title of Midwife around so casually. I'm sure legit Midwives are bothered by that.

Midwife, concert pianist, high school graduate, barely married almost-teenage couples who go on national speaking tours as marriage and family experts, pilot Josiah who doesn't recognize the name of two key pieces of his own plane. They toss a lot of stuff around. And then there's Daddy JB, a one-term state rep who reportedly almost never showed up at the capital, who threw away a quarter mill on the belief that he could unseat a sitting U.S. Senator of his own party, while his kids ate groceries people left on their front porch. The family crest should depict Delusions of Grandeur Rampant.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Churchhoney

[laurakaye]

Maybe Josiah printed up Jill's midwife certificate on the old Duggar home printer, put it in a Dollar General frame, and voila - Jill is a certified midwife!

And if Jill is depressed, would she even really understand what's wrong, and that it's not only normal but treatable?  I don't see any of the Duggars walking around with enough self-awareness to realize that something might be wrong, let alone be able to classify the feelings as depression.  I'm guessing that depression, as we know it, is something not within their realm of thinking - therefore never diagnosed and never treated.  If Jill did have PPD, she may never "grow out of it," as long as she's not being treated, or allowed to talk about it.

[Minivanessa]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Same here. In my field of Social Work/Mental Health, we can't sit for a test without completing the requirements, which include graduating from an accredited Master's program and working full-time for a minimum of two years in the mental health field. Only then can one take the licensure exam. After that, over the course of every 2 years we need to fulfill education unit requirements before we can renew our licenses.

It's actually considered unethical to refer to oneself as a Clinician before completing a Master's. Until then the title of Counselor should only be used.

They toss the title of Midwife around so casually. I'm sure legit Midwives are bothered by that.

This expresses so well what I was getting at with my recent posts. I was kind of posting on the run and didn't have a chance to look closely at the Arkansas government rules for lay midwife licensing until just now.  Under Section 300, it's clear that the NARM certificate that we assume Jill earned last year, is just one part of the licensure requirements. Even if Jill had met all the experience/practice requirements, and then passed the NARM test and got that certificate? There's a state-administered licensure exam as well - and the Duggars/Dillards never ever mentioned Jill taking that. (Because I think she didn't.) It's like your licensing system - degree (or certificate) plus experience, then a state exam. 

I agree, there may be a culture among lay midwives of claiming the title without being actual nurses or doctors. I've met a few and read up on it a bit. IMO some of that stuff could be dangerous if pregnant women think one of those midwives is all they need.

Oh, wait. Look at Jill's own near-disaster of a birth. And Jessa's. 

It amazes me that after those two situations, Jill would not only help deliver a baby - with the awful Venessa no less - but brag about it on social media.

That is scary. stupid. sh*t.

[jcbrown]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

This expresses so well what I was getting at with my recent posts. I was kind of posting on the run and didn't have a chance to look closely at the Arkansas government rules for lay midwife licensing until just now.  Under Section 300, it's clear that the NARM certificate that we assume Jill earned last year, is just one part of the licensure requirements. Even if Jill had met all the experience/practice requirements, and then passed the NARM test and got that certificate? There's a state-administered licensure exam as well - and the Duggars/Dillards never ever mentioned Jill taking that. (Because I think she didn't.) It's like your licensing system - degree (or certificate) plus experience, then a state exam. 

I agree, there may be a culture among lay midwives of claiming the title without being actual nurses or doctors. I've met a few and read up on it a bit. IMO some of that stuff could be dangerous if pregnant women think one of those midwives is all they need.

Oh, wait. Look at Jill's own near-disaster of a birth. And Jessa's. 

It amazes me that after those two situations, Jill would not only help deliver a baby - with the awful Venessa no less - but brag about it on social media.

That is scary. stupid. sh*t.

And wouldn't it also be stupid sh*t that could expose her to liability should something go wrong? Jill is just. not. bright.

[Absolom]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I agree, there may be a culture among lay midwives of claiming the title without being actual nurses or doctors. I've met a few and read up on it a bit. IMO some of that stuff could be dangerous if pregnant women think one of those midwives is all they need.

There absolutely is among some people and areas.  The lay midwives themselves feed that idea and do tell women that giving birth is all natural and and no outside assistance is required.  Not all lay midwives are like that, but Venessa is one of those. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Midwife, concert pianist, high school graduate, barely married almost-teenage couples who go on national speaking tours as marriage and family experts, pilot Josiah who doesn't recognize the name of two key pieces of his own plane. They toss a lot of stuff around. And then there's Daddy JB, a one-term state rep who reportedly almost never showed up at the capital, who threw away a quarter mill on the belief that he could unseat a sitting U.S. Senator of his own party, while his kids ate groceries people left on their front porch. The family crest should depict Delusions of Grandeur Rampant.

19 Rampant Delusions and Counting.

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Benessa has moved her base of operations across the border to OK, so she probably practices close to the AR border if she does house calls. For some reason, I can't paste my screenshot of Venessa's FB bio, but she lists Tulsa as her residence. It's about a 2 hour drive for Jilly from Springdale.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[emma675]

Quote

Strange, isn't Plexus a mid level marketing scheme?

I thought Plexus was some kind of weight loss thing? What the hell is #PlexusMidwife and #PlexusBaby? That makes zero sense to me.

[Sew Sumi]

Venessa looks like she's lost weight. She calls herself a midwife.  I get that. But not #PlexusBaby. That makes no sense at all.

[louannems]

15 hours ago, TaxNerd said:

Strange, isn't Plexus a mid level marketing scheme?

Isnt that the product JillRod is hawking?

[Sew Sumi]

Yup.

[laurakaye]

Isn't the hashtag #PlexusBaby the same thing as hashtagging #SlimfastBaby or #JennyCraigBaby?  None of which make a lick of sense?  What do weight loss products have to do with newborn babies?

I don't get it.

[MargeGunderson]

I'm guessing that it's to promote the product that the mom is going to use to lose the dreaded baby weight. Does it make sense? No, but what does in the Duggar world?

[TaxNerd]

Wow, the pressure to be super thin and perfect has now reached the point the Moms are taking diet pills AS they push out the next miracle!

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Isn't the hashtag #PlexusBaby the same thing as hashtagging #SlimfastBaby or #JennyCraigBaby?  None of which make a lick of sense?  What do weight loss products have to do with newborn babies?

I don't get it.

Thank heavens I live in a world where these hashtags are foreign to me. #realwomenrule I say that not even being overweight. I just want women to be comfortable in their own skin and not cave in to fad diets/supplements.  

[laurakaye]

6 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Thank heavens I live in a world where these hashtags are foreign to me. #realwomenrule I say that not even being overweight. I just want women to be comfortable in their own skin and not cave in to fad diets/supplements.  

Exactly, and to hashtag a weight-loss gimmick in the context of delivering a healthy baby - and suggesting that the newly exhausted mom should immediately start thinking about dropping that pesky baby weight - when the baby has been out of her body for mere minutes - is tacky and disgusting in the extreme.

[Arwen Evenstar]

8 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Maybe Josiah printed up Jill's midwife certificate on the old Duggar home printer, put it in a Dollar General frame, and voila - Jill is a certified midwife!

And if Jill is depressed, would she even really understand what's wrong, and that it's not only normal but treatable?  I don't see any of the Duggars walking around with enough self-awareness to realize that something might be wrong, let alone be able to classify the feelings as depression.  I'm guessing that depression, as we know it, is something not within their realm of thinking - therefore never diagnosed and never treated.  If Jill did have PPD, she may never "grow out of it," as long as she's not being treated, or allowed to talk about it.

Bingo! She would never be allowed to admit to such a "spiritual failing", and would be told I o simply "pray it away".  Depression is a serious illness; it should not go untreated, particularly PPD.

[Sew Sumi]

Okay, the grammar is pretty awful, but this person got the point across! 

 

[Abstract]

Unfortunately, I have had enough exposure to Plexus people to be able to tell you all that Plexus is not just about weight loss. It's touted as a miracle cure for everything. So Venessa is probably selling Plexus to all her clients, telling them it's super-duper good nutrition for mom and baby. 

[jcbrown]

14 hours ago, Abstract said:

Unfortunately, I have had enough exposure to Plexus people to be able to tell you all that Plexus is not just about weight loss. It's touted as a miracle cure for everything. So Venessa is probably selling Plexus to all her clients, telling them it's super-duper good nutrition for mom and baby. 

Snake oil, eh? Seems an appropriate thing for a Duggar to be involved with.

[BitterApple]

MLM scams plus prenatal care? Sounds totally legit.