Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Minivanessa]

49 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Actually Derick was a full-time employee at Walmart when Izzy was born and they went to TLC asking them to cover their out of pocket bills.

I think something was up by then. Maybe Ben and Jessa's partially TLC funded honeymoon. Or Maybe Jessa and Ben went to TLC and negotiated a new contact when they were married.

Something woke up and pissed off Derick prior to Izzy's birth.

IIRC Jill said in SHP that they hadn't wanted Izzy's birth to be recorded for the show, referring to Anna's labor/delivery scenes, and indicating she didn't want that for herself. But TLC insisted that they were obligated to have it by contract. I believe Jill said they negotiated to have a camera so they could do their own filming without a crew present (for at least some of the labor/delivery). So by the time Jill went into labor they were already getting pushback from TLC (or the production company) which I'm sure started them questioning what the heck was happening, even if they didn't rock the boat at that time.

I'm not sure at what point - perhaps when they requested reimbursement for their out of pocket costs - they got further into the dialogue with TLC, which led to their seeing the contract Jill signed on the day before her wedding without understanding what it was at the time. 

However the contracts were structured, I'm sure TLC's lawyers would be sure to get solid paperwork showing the consent of each of the participants to be shown on the show. Whether the contracts were between TLC and the individuals, or between TLC and a Duggar legal entity representing those persons (which would in its turn need to have signatures showing that permission from each person). 

ETA:  Jill has also said that when the DIllards were in Danger America [for SOS Ministries, IIRC], they hadn't wanted to come back to Arkansas, but again because of their contract, they had to fly home to record for the show. IMO they weren't destined to be missionaries, but if their time in the field was interrupted (I think more than once) by having to pack up and fly back to the States, they were practically set up to have a bad experience. Yes, Derick came across as a doofus and Jill was over-the-top anxious, but it's like they never got a chance to be really free of JB's circles of control including the show. Even if Derick's beefs with JB are only about the money (I don't share that view), in SHP Jill made comments about the IBLP life being controlling, and that having your own feelings and ideas was not something much allowed by IBLP or in her family. She also commented that IBLP appealed to her dad, IIRC when the subject was about control. She didn't say in so many words that JB was a control freak but the implications were clear to me. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jeeves

[Minivanessa]

Okay. Here's the info on the contract Jill signed on the day before her wedding. A screenshot of part of the first page, which appears around the 21 minute mark of Episode 3 of SHP. It looks like JB's company (Mad Family Inc. - not an LLC, BTW), acted as the provider of services for all the named Duggars, granting rights to Discovery Talent Services, LLC (TLC is part of Discovery corporate) for the show. I take this to mean that Discovery paid JB's company for the services of all those people. AFAIK this is the contract whose signature page we also saw - or at least the part showing Jill's signature on the day before her wedding. Because each named Duggar (or their parents in the case of legal minors) also signed this, I assume TLC wanted to be sure they documented the consent for each person to appear on the show. I'm not familiar with entertainment industry contracting practices; this was probably nothing out of the ordinary as to how it was structured. 

ETA: I played the episode just past the first page of the contract, where they panned down the signature page. Here are a couple of screenshots. Although the documentary didn't do so, I've blacked out the signatures in these images. The signatures are there to see if you watch the episode, but I'd rather not make life easy for anyone with evil intent by putting images of their legal signatures online. There was another shot of part of the contract, IIRC. These were shown as Jill was discussing how they didn't want to have their missionary stint in Danger America interrupted by trips back to Arkansas but TLC said they had to. Again, all this is about at 21 minutes into Episode 3.

 

Another edit: At about 18 minutes into Episode 4, Jill says they asked for all the TLC contracts involving her/Derick. She then says (and there are screenshots) that the found that well after she turned 18, JB and Michelle were signing contracts for her as a "minor child" - and for other kidults as well. She said that as kids reached 18 they didn't fix that but kept on signing as if they were minors. The signature page shown at that point is different from the ones I've posted above (from Episode 3).  

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jeeves
Better organized the shots of the signature page

[Salacious Kitty]

This contract is different than the one posted prior that listed Jill as a minor. 

[Minivanessa]

5 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

This contract is different than the one posted prior that listed Jill as a minor. 

Yes. I added an edit at the end of my post above, after re-watching Episode 4. In that episode, at about the 18 minute mark, Jill said they got copies of the contracts from TLC. That' when she learned that for years after she turned 18, her parents kept signing for her as a minor. There's a screen shot of the signature page of that document shown at that point, which is what was posted upthread. 

ETA: Of course we have just a glimpse into the contracts, not the whole picture. But based on what was revealed during SHP, I believe that (1) for a few years after Jill turned 18, her parents kept signing contracts on her behalf stating she was a minor child, and (2) this was also the case as to other kidults. We saw one of those signature pages on the show and a screenshot was posted upthread.

Jill said that it went on like that for awhile and "nobody fixed it." Until somebody wised up and prepared documents recognizing that Jill and others were now adults, which they had them sign. As to Jill, that was apparently the contract document she signed on the day before her wedding, of which I posted screenshots above. Note that it includes signatures of Jessa and Jinger as well as Jill. 

(We heard a long time ago that after their marriage, Jeremy and Jinger signed separate contracts for the show, and though I'm no fan of his, I've always respected him for that. It must have ground JB's gears to lose control, but under their doctrines, Jeremy became Jinger's headship, and when it came down to it, Jeremy didn't buckle under to JB. Heh.)

Edited June 15, 2023 by Jeeves

[Tuxcat]

10 hours ago, Jeeves said:

We heard a long time ago that after their marriage, Jeremy and Jinger signed separate contracts for the show, and though I'm no fan of his, I've always respected him for that. It must have ground JB's gears to lose control, but under their doctrines, Jeremy became Jinger's headship, and when it came down to it, Jeremy didn't buckle under to JB. Heh.)

Very interesting @Jeeves. Thank you so much!

So what's the timeline on this? The 2014 contracts were for a period of FIVE years IIRC, thereby locking Jill in and mandating that she comply with the show's travel and filming requests. 

If Jinger signed at the same time, when and how was Jeremy able to negotiate differently? 

And is this what made Derick so angry? Jeremy was (allegedly) able to negotiate and Derick seemingly was not able to? 

---------

Derick worked at Wal-mart Jan 2014

Jill and Derick married June 2014.

Dillard Ministries established 2014 (prior to Izzy's birth)

Opportunity to go to the mission field - prior to Izzy's birth (according to their blog)

Izzy born April 6 2015 (footage aired in the fall with first episode of new Jill and Jessa: Counting on)

May 2015 quit Wal-mart and moved to Central America and Dillard Ministries starts taking donations.

Jeremy and Jinger Courtship June 2016

Sam born July 2017

Derick leaves after twitter tirade summer 2017

Edited June 16, 2023 by Tuxcat

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Very interesting @Jeeves. Thank you so much!

So what's the timeline on this? The 2014 contracts were for a period of FIVE years IIRC, thereby locking Jill in and mandating that she comply with the show's travel and filming requests. 

If Jinger signed at the same time, when and how was Jeremy able to negotiate differently? 

And is this what made Derick so angry? Jeremy was (allegedly) able to negotiate and Derick seemingly was not able to? 

---------

Derick worked at Wal-mart Jan 2014

Jill and Derick married June 2014.

Dillard Ministries established 2014 (prior to Izzy's birth)

Opportunity to go to the mission field - prior to Izzy's birth (according to their blog)

Izzy born April 6 2015 (footage aired in the fall with first episode of new Jill and Jessa: Counting on)

May 2015 quit Wal-mart and moved to Central America and Dillard Ministries starts taking donations.

Jeremy and Jinger Courtship June 2016

Sam born July 2017

Derick leaves after twitter tirade summer 2017

Jessa and Ben were married in November 2014. Not long after the wedding but prior to Jill & Jessa: Counting On, Jessa and Ben were spotted at TLC headquarters. Speculation then was they were signing with them for the new show.

Also Jeremy was slowing creeping onto the scene starting in early 2015.

I have a question - wouldn't the cancelation of 19 Kids void the original contract? Wouldn't new ones need to be drawn up for J&J: Counting On?

[Minivanessa]

Even if Jinger was buttoned into a contract with a few years to go, when Jeremy showed up the show would have to sign him up if he were going to appear, especially as a featured participant. I could see Jeremy insisting that he would only sign a deal that was specifically for Jinger and himself. Which is no big deal legally, they just amend the main contract to reflect that Jinger's no longer there under the auspices of Mad Family, Inc. (JB's production company), and ink a separate deal with Jer and Jinge. I'm assuming here that Jeremy did NOT just add himself to the passel of people represented by Mad Family, Inc. - IOW that the 'separate contract' we heard about was indeed separate from JB's company. 

BTW, I've re-watched SHP. When Jill talks about JB giving out money to the kidults, she specifically mentions Mad Family, Inc. by name. That's where she says that after she got her money from JB, he decided that as the other kids were reaching adulthood, and the boys were wanting to start businesses, he'd pay each of them a lump sum representing their work over the years on the show. But only under the condition that they sign up for a long time (she said something like "the rest of their lives"), with JB's production company, Mad Family, Inc. She obviously did *not* do that, and her affect when talking about it is pretty scornful of JB for pulling that power move over his kidults.

[Notabug]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

 

I have a question - wouldn't the cancelation of 19 Kids void the original contract? Wouldn't new ones need to be drawn up for J&J: Counting On?

It depends on the wording of the original contract, I think.  It could've been worded to allow TLC options on any and all reality shows featuring the Duggars and also allowed them to change the name and premise of the show at any time should they wish to do so.

[Tuxcat]

3 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Even if Jinger was buttoned into a contract with a few years to go, when Jeremy showed up the show would have to sign him up if he were going to appear, especially as a featured participant

So did Derick ever sign his own contract? He maintains he never had one.

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jessa and Ben were married in November 2014. Not long after the wedding but prior to Jill & Jessa: Counting On, Jessa and Ben were spotted at TLC headquarters. Speculation then was they were signing with them for the new show.

So why would Derick not do the same?

[Lisa418722]

5 hours ago, Jeeves said:

That's where she says that after she got her money from JB, he decided that as the other kids were reaching adulthood, and the boys were wanting to start businesses, he'd pay each of them a lump sum representing their work over the years on the show. But only under the condition that they sign up for a long time (she said something like "the rest of their lives"), with JB's production company, Mad Family, Inc. She obviously did *not* do that, and her affect when talking about it is pretty scornful of JB for pulling that power move over his kidults.

When I heard that part (however it was phrased) I thought about Scientology forcing people to sign billion-year contracts.  

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

So did Derick ever sign his own contract? He maintains he never had one.

So why would Derick not do the same?

I think he did. There's no way TLC would film him without. It probably went down the same way. But it sounds better that Jill signed one and didn't know what it meant. Since she's undereducated and trusted her father. Then college boy Derick signed a contract that he didn't read. Plus it keeps Derick as the "victim" where nothing is his fault. He didn't do anything. JB lied and Jill signed the contract.  

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I think he did. There's no way TLC would film him without. It probably went down the same way. But it sounds better that Jill signed one and didn't know what it meant. Since she's undereducated and trusted her father. Then college boy Derick signed a contract that he didn't read. Plus it keeps Derick as the "victim" where nothing is his fault. He didn't do anything. JB lied and Jill signed the contract.  

Jill signing something she didn’t understand because her father asked her to wasn’t wise, but was very understandable, especially given her age, sheltered upbringing. JB was the scumbag in that situation. 
 

Derick signing something without reading it I have less sympathy for- 1. JB wasn’t his parent who had the emotional pull and expectation of loyalty with him, 2. Yes he and Jill were the same chronological age but he had a lot more life experience. JB was still in a position of power, but Derick SHOULD'VE known better; and it seems Jill realizes she should’ve know better but Derick wouldn’t dare admit that. 

[GeeGolly]

I think Derick is once again fudging timelines and facts in an effort to defend himself and repair his image.  Izzy's first appearance on TV was actually on what turned out to be the last episode of 19 kids. The episode was a family talking heads of sorts. If I'm remembering right the episode featured JB&M, FF & Anna, Jessa & Ben and Jill and I think Josie. Derick wasn't there because he was recovering from his mouth surgery.

• We know that show was filmed and aired close to real time because Izzy was born in April of 2015 and the show aired in May.
• Then Scandal #1 breaks in the same month.
• Then the Kelly interview in June.
• And finally TLC announces 19 Kids is cancelled in July.
• July is also the month the Dillards left for their "10 month" stint in El Salvador.
• Then, a few months later in October TLC announces their 'new' show Jill & Jessa: Counting On.
• In December  of 2015 the first episode of J&J airs.

So Derick is saying all the shit starting hitting the fan shortly after Izzy's birth (or before if you count the Dillards refusing the crew to film his birth), yet TLC decided to rebrand the show in Jill's name. Why would TLC go in that direction if Derick and Jill were already pushing back?

What really has me curious is Derick's first IG rant. That happened over two years later. The Dillards had already moved back home. Sam was already born. We're supposed to believe Derick sat on his anger for two years? I'm not saying Derick's saga is all straight up lies but I think they're fudging here and there. I don't know, maybe they hit up TLC for a bonus for Izzy's birth, were denied and then tried again when Jill was pregnant with Sam and that is when it all started. By then Derick hadn't worked in two years and the Dillard Family Ministries went bust.

Edited June 17, 2023 by GeeGolly

[Meow Mix]

At one point someone asked Derick on social media when their association with TLC ended.  He actually gave a straight answer of May 31, 2017 which is rare for him.  Usually he gives some word salad so he can walk it back later by saying he didn't say a particular thing.  That may be technically true, but he knew what kind of impression he was giving people.  Anyway, 

I do think the May date was actually true because Joy was married shortly before then.  Even though Jill was matron of honor, she was hardly in the episode.  There was a catch-up episode with some of the married or going to be married couples filmed in June (we know that because Joy said on that show that she and Austin had only been married for something like 25 days) and Jill and Derick were absent.  TLC was trying to keep it quiet maybe in hopes that they would change their minds.  However, in August around the time a new season of Jazz's show was being promoted, Derick made his first bigoted tweet.  TLC then made a week statement that his opinions were his own.  It wasn't until November when he doubled down on the bullying that they finally came out and said he was out.

So, they were done with TLC before Sam was born.  What I wonder was how the five year contract Jill signed played into that.  I could see TLC once they realized what JB had done letting Jill off the hook for filming Sam's birth because they didn't want to be implicated in JB's shenanigans around getting her to sign something without showing her what she was signing.

As for Derick, he's a typical conservative who just makes things worse by not admitting his own mistakes.  He signed something with TLC or JB or he wouldn't have been filmed.  If he had just admitted that he made a mistake in not understanding what he was signing, most people would have understood.  Yes, he was old enough to know better, but he was around 25 and probably a bit naive.

[GeeGolly]

Jill appeared on the show until 2020 although infrequently, but Derick did stop in 2017. For comparison Jessa appeared in 111 episodes, 2015 - 2021 and Anna appeared in 40, 2015 - 2021. 

[Salacious Kitty]

I think Jill was seen (see Giddy's labor) but didn't speak. Or if she spoke it wasn't germane to the main characters. I think she spoke to Joy's sad midwife, but not directly to camera. I think this happened several times. Or she didn't speak at all. 

[LilJen]

On 6/16/2023 at 8:57 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Jill signing something she didn’t understand because her father asked her to wasn’t wise, but was very understandable, especially given her age, sheltered upbringing. JB was the scumbag in that situation. 
 

Derick signing something without reading it I have less sympathy for- 1. JB wasn’t his parent who had the emotional pull and expectation of loyalty with him, 2. Yes he and Jill were the same chronological age but he had a lot more life experience. JB was still in a position of power, but Derick SHOULD'VE known better; and it seems Jill realizes she should’ve know better but Derick wouldn’t dare admit that. 

Derrick should have known better but 1. He lost his dad when he was 16, and 2. He trusted JB.

[ginger90]

3 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Derrick should have known better but 1. He lost his dad when he was 16, and 2. He trusted JB.

I believe Derick was 18?

[Scarlett45]

7 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Derrick should have known better but 1. He lost his dad when he was 16, and 2. He trusted JB.

I can see that. And his Mom was very sick, that’s a lot on someone. JB was scum to abuse the trust of both of them. I have less sympathy for Derick than Jill but I do have some. 

[Salacious Kitty]

14 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I believe Derick was 18?

Yes, almost 19. A freshman at OSU.

[auntieminem]

Jill has posted belated father's day wishes on FB and IG. She also included a HFD to JB.  https://www.instagram.com/p/CtsVS7wMjHy/

Wonder what he thinks when he sees she can still love him but not agree with him.?  

[GeeGolly]

[Salacious Kitty]

Like I alluded to in another thread, Jill's taking the high road. Her feelings for her father have to be so messed up.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Jill has posted belated father's day wishes on FB and IG. She also included a HFD to JB.  https://www.instagram.com/p/CtsVS7wMjHy/

Wonder what he thinks when he sees she can still love him but not agree with him.?  

I doubt he even uses Instagram, so he probably didn’t even see it. 

[Salacious Kitty]

22 minutes ago, AstridM said:

I doubt he even uses Instagram, so he probably didn’t even see it. 

I'm sure James or Jed! told him about it. 

[Minivanessa]

9 hours ago, auntieminem said:

Jill has posted belated father's day wishes on FB and IG. She also included a HFD to JB.  https://www.instagram.com/p/CtsVS7wMjHy/

Wonder what he thinks when he sees she can still love him but not agree with him.?  

Good question. In one of the SHP episodes (I think it was Episode 1), both Jill and Derick commented on the way that the IBLP thinking doesn't recognize that you can disagree with someone (from the context I believe they were talking about authority figures) without disrespecting them.  Jill said, "Honor, respect, and obey were on the same level back then" and Derick agreed. 

Also, in SHP Jill shared a memory of her father that was positive. She talked about how in the early days he worked multiple jobs to support the family. He had a tow truck service, and she remembers riding with him. She said the smell of diesel fuel reminds her of the tow truck, with JB and his cup of sweet tea, going out on a call. 

[GeeGolly]

I think the entire situation with Jill is sad. Derick, with a little sprinkle of Amy, are the only reasons I can think of to keep this feud going. JB made a huge asshole move in not compensating his children early on and Jill's siblings have Derick to thank for getting payouts, but why retell the story again and then again in the book? Other than money from the book and some fandom love for her and Derick, what is Jill gaining?

Also, I think she needs to be careful because she continues to shill kid products on IG. Sure, the boys get swimming lessons, etc out of it, but using that theory, Jill got a lot of benefits from filming. I know the comparison is a reach, but history shows us the rise to the top is often the last step before the fall. The SM keyboard warriors for Jill can become anti-Jill in a hot minute.

For Jill's sake I hope the book is a thoughtful book about the perils of being raised in a restrictive faith based atmosphere by authoritarian parents and not chapter after chapter about the money feud.

[BetyBee]

One difference between the sisters' books for me is that I would never waste money on Jinger's book or even get it from the library. I might buy Jill's book, unless reviews show that it reveals nothing new. 

[GeeGolly]

13 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

One difference between the sisters' books for me is that I would never waste money on Jinger's book or even get it from the library. I might buy Jill's book, unless reviews show that it reveals nothing new. 

I didn't read Jinger's and likely won't read Jill's either. But I come from a different place as I don't see many differences between Jill and Jinger. I feel a lot of empathy for both of them and also some disgust due to their beliefs. But overall they had the same childhood struggles and are both doing the best they can as stunted adults.

[Lisa418722]

I haven't read Jinger's and at this point, I have no desire to read Jill's.  I might be willing to read either one of them if I find them at the library or for .99 cents on my Kindle (since I don't want to kill any more trees if I can help it).  

 

[AstridM]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I didn't read Jinger's and likely won't read Jill's either. But I come from a different place as I don't see many differences between Jill and Jinger. I feel a lot of empathy for both of them and also some disgust due to their beliefs. But overall they had the same childhood struggles and are both doing the best they can as stunted adults.

Jinger just did an interview with the hateful extremist Kirk Cameron 😡. I can’t see Jill doing the same. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by AstridM

[Zella]

I seriously doubt that Jill and Derick have a problem with Kirk Cameron, TBH. 

[dariafan]

I think Jill may have been more pro jb if he hadn’t been such an ass at felons trial    I can’t imagine how painful it would be to have your father know what he did and lie about it on the stand to get him off ( phrasing I know..)

[GeeGolly]

39 minutes ago, AstridM said:

Jinger just did an interview with the hateful extremist Kirk Cameron 😡. I can’t see Jill doing the same. 

I'm curious why you think Jill wouldn't talk with Kirk.

[Zella]

13 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Like I alluded to in another thread, Jill's taking the high road. Her feelings for her father have to be so messed up.

She seems to be approaching it more healthily than anyone else in the family, at least when she comments publicly. I don't think she likes being estranged from her family at all, but she does a good job publicly of not appearing petty about it or desperate for their attention. I've always thought she handled it better on social media than Derick, to be perfectly frank, and she also seems to be doing a better job with it than her brothers when they go off on social media. I suspect it affects her a lot more than she lets on and that she wishes for a reconciliation of some sort far more than snarkers do, and that's a big part of why she tries to keep it civil on her end. 

Edited June 20, 2023 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

I'm going to guess not one Duggar or Duggar adjacent approve of drag queen story time. I'm also going to guess they all have already read Kirk's books to their kids, or certainly wouldn't object to reading them.

[AstridM]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm curious why you think Jill wouldn't talk with Kirk.

She might well talk to him, but I just don’t see her giving him a public interview to use to spread his hateful propaganda (even though she undoubtedly agrees with him on too many things).

[Tuxcat]

7 hours ago, AstridM said:

She might well talk to him, but I just don’t see her giving him a public interview to use to spread his hateful propaganda (even though she undoubtedly agrees with him on too many things).

I think we're forgetting that Derick and Jill still have a "mission heart" and an evangelical calling. They want to reach as many people as they can to spread the word (and their literal interpretation). They view it as their mission as Christians to be public. I don't see Jill retreating from that. I think she'd have Kirk on in a hot second - as long as he endorsed her book. Cause Tit for Tat of course.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Tuxcat

[SnapHappy]

I imagine the first thing Dildo did when he heard about Jinger's interview with KC is to track down how to contact the show so Jill can get interviewed too.  Preferably with him sitting there too. 

Though Jinger's book was more jesus-focused than Dildo & Jill's sour-grapes, dirty laundry saga, so Kirk may not be that interested.  But you never know.  

Edited June 21, 2023 by SnapHappy

[Minivanessa]

9 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

Jinger's book was more jesus-focused than Dildo & Jill's sour-grapes, dirty laundry saga,

Have you read both books? I'd be interested in the deets behind that opinion.

[SnapHappy]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

Have you read both books? I'd be interested in the deets behind that opinion.

I've read Jinger's book.  It was non-judgmental and extremely focused on her beliefs.  She said prior to release it was not a tell-all, and that is a fact. It's not.

Jill's book has been described as the tell-all her husband has been threatening to write for years.  Neither of them deny it, and they've had ample opportunities since their book was announced in the media.  

Of course I haven't read it, but I believe them when they indicate it is exactly the tell-all Dillwad has been yammering about. They lie about a lot, but I believe this. 

[Future Cat Lady]

We don’t really know what will be in the Dillards book, but I don’t think it will be a promotional product for their church like Jinger’s book. I think Jinger’s book was her church’s idea. They basically used her for publicity.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Future Cat Lady

[Tuxcat]

I think Jinger's book was influenced by her husband. A vehicle to sell his church and display her conversion to his beliefs. They spared her family the direct hit and merely pushed back on the IBLP. Jeremy gets his wish with minimal collateral damage. 

I think Jill's book will be influenced by her husband. Promised revenge on JB for playing dirty and a vehicle to redeem Derick in the public eye (he was bottom of the barrel in 2017 but people seem to be forgetting - the book will seal the deal). I think Jill will attempt to moderate the damage to her family and speak generally about forgiveness, boundaries and hope. But this will be more Derick's direct shot. Derick will get his wish, with moderate collateral damage.

Edited to Add: I struggle with the idea that both of them are still heavily influenced by the men in their lives. I have to work that out. In one way it is positive. In another way, it is not at all.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Tuxcat

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

I think Jinger's book was influenced by her husband. A vehicle to sell his church and display her conversion to his beliefs. They spared her family the direct hit and merely pushed back on the IBLP. Jeremy gets his wish with minimal collateral damage. 

I think if Jeremy was driving that book, he would have been involved more in the promotion, and I think there would have been a lot more content about him. I never read the book, but what was shared about Jeremy truthfully didn't strike me as very flattering.  

I could definitely see him bringing the possibility of a book to the powers that be at the Church of the Hateful Old Fucks with one vision for it in his mind, and them jumping in with a very different focus  that removed him largely from the process, much to his bewilderment. That scenario actually makes me laugh pretty hard. 

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think if Jeremy was driving that book, he would have been involved more in the promotion, and I think there would have been a lot more content about him. I never read the book, but what was shared about Jeremy truthfully didn't strike me as very flattering.  

I could definitely see him bringing the possibility of a book to the powers that be at the Church of the Hateful Old Fucks with one vision for it in his mind, and them jumping in with a very different focus  that removed him largely from the process, much to his bewilderment. That scenario actually makes me laugh pretty hard. 

I agree. I think TPTB understood that a Jinger memoir would be an easier sell than attaching Jer's name to it. The Duggar name still moves product. At least as far as the girls are concerned. 

[Zella]

Just now, Salacious Kitty said:

At least as far as the girls are concerned. 

Yes I don't think any of the other kids have the same potential for public draw as the oldest girls. The oldest girls are all fairly conventionally attractive and just distinctive enough in their own way that there's an OK chance that the general public can at least keep them straight. 

3 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I agree. I think TPTB understood that a Jinger memoir would be an easier sell than attaching Jer's name to it. The Duggar name still moves product. At least as far as the girls are concerned. 

I think this has been a sticking point for some of the men who married into the family too. I suspect a few of them married in with the idea that they could parley that fame, such as it was, into its own thing for themselves separate from the Duggar brand. But none of them are going to be really notable in their own right for anything beyond being Mr. J. Duggar. 

[Tuxcat]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I think if Jeremy was driving that book, he would have been involved more in the promotion, and I think there would have been a lot more content about him. I never read the book, but what was shared about Jeremy truthfully didn't strike me as very flattering.

Jeremy is still the protege for John MacArthur isn't he? And essentially everything that Jinger said regarding her new beliefs was from John MacArthur's teachings. So I don't think the book was self serving - like Jill's is for Derick - but I definitely believe that Jinger's book was directed by Jeremy and MacArthur. And they surely did know that Jinger's alone would be more effective because she was supposed to be "free" after all. Still - the book functions as a call to MacArthurism (Vuoloism).

Edited June 22, 2023 by Tuxcat

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Jeremy is still the protege for John MacArthur isn't he? And essentially everything that Jinger said regarding her new beliefs was from John MacArthur's teachings. So I don't think the book was self serving - like Jill's is for Derick - but I definitely believe that Jinger's book was directed by Jeremy and MacArthur. And they surely did know that Jinger's alone would be more effective because she was supposed to be "free" after all. Still - the book functions as a call to MacArthurism (Vuoloism).

I think Jeremy has grander ambitions for fame than being MacArthur's lap dog or Jinger's husband. Otherwise, he wouldn't have tried courting people like Kanye (and failing miserably but still) or all of those pathetic influencer attempts, like Fonuts. He's also sometimes seemed irritated when the attention is on her and not him. That's why I don't buy that if it was his idea, his only motivation was to promote MacArthur. In fact, he's often been quite slippery concerning MacArthur, like when he signed that bigoted bullshit a few years ago but didn't try to advertise his position on it. 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Zella

[andromeda331]

4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think Jeremy has grander ambitions for fame than being MacArthur's lap dog or Jinger's husband. Otherwise, he wouldn't have tried courting people like Kanye (and failing miserably but still) or all of those pathetic influencer attempts, like Fonuts. He's also sometimes seemed irritated when the attention is on her and not him. That's why I don't buy that if it was his idea, his only motivation was to promote MacArthur. In fact, he's often been quite slippery concerning MacArthur, like when he signed that bigoted bullshit a few years ago but didn't try to advertise his position on it. 

He does he just can't figure why he's not as famous as he wants to be.

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, Tuxcat said:

Edited to Add: I struggle with the idea that both of them are still heavily influenced by the men in their lives. I have to work that out. In one way it is positive. In another way, it is not at all.

I think Jill and Jinger are both strong women, but in different ways. But even with their strength, they were raised to honor their headship.

Jill thrived in the Duggar environment because it fit her personality and because she didn't dig to deep into their faith. Jinger, on the other hand, seemed to be peeking over the edge knowing their is more beyond the Fundy circle, but was deep into the weeds of their constricting and fear based faith.

Jill struggled with adulthood because life beyond the TTH crushed her fairytale dreams with the reality of life, including complicated births, unsuccessful missions, etc. Jinger struggled with adulthood because everyday normal things interfered with her faith, like going to the laundry room in their apartment without an accountability partner, wearing pants, etc.

But anyway, both Jill and Jinger relied on their husbands because they were supposed to and because they needed to, to learn how to live outside of the Duggar bubble, but IMO, not because they are weak women.