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Rugby Sevens: A Sport, Apparently

SnideAsides

By SnideAsides
in 2016 Olympics

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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

(edited)

So happy rugby is Olympics again especially the 7 version of that sport. Fun to watch, easier to understand than 15, and I think it's gonna fit well in the Olympics. For people who don't understand the rules, it is not that complicated. Trust me I am a rugby player.

Great showing from the women today. Good individuals technical skills, good tackles (especially from Fiji), good run and sportsmanship. Australia should take the gold home but New Zealand or Canada  (and maybe Great Britain) can still surprise them. I hope France will get a medal but it's gonna be hard. 

For the men I will advise to watch a game with Fiji they are the magicians of that game and I am always amazed by their skills. I hope they get the gold medal.

Edited by FrenchCheese
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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

(edited)
Quote

The problem with international rugby has always been the massive disparity between good and bad teams. Women's rugby sevens seems to take that disparity to the extreme. I hope the elimination rounds are more closely contested

While it is true for the 15 rugby it is not that true for the men 7 version. For the women 7 it is partially true but it is due to the Olympics qualifications system. 

Only 12 teams are qualified (including the hosting team) with some teams from all continents. Columbia is for example the qualified team from south America but they are way better team in Europe or Oceania. For Africa, the qualified team was South Africa (far better team than Kenya) but the South African Olympic committee did not allow the team to go to Rio. 

The competition should be closer wit the elimination rounds as those teams will be eliminated. 

Edited by FrenchCheese
candall

candall

5 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:

Only 12 teams are qualified (including the hosting team) with some teams from all continents. Columbia is for example the qualified team from south America but they are way better team in Europe or Oceania. For Africa, the qualified team was South Africa (far better team than Kenya) but the South African Olympic committee did not allow the team to go to Rio. 

Very interesting!  That's amazing about doling out the spots evenly among the continents--do any other sports do that??

Why wouldn't South Africa want their team at Rio?

Tell us a couple of things to watch for, please, @FrenchCheese.  I saw a women's match today and "badass" barely covers it.  WOW.  OW!

Arynm

Arynm

(edited)

I love Rugby! I am so happy that it's in the Olympics. I hope it does well, I really enjoy it. I am American, but I am rooting for Fiji. They have a real chance and I don't think they have ever won a medal

ETA: I prefer 15 but I will take 7s if that's all I can get. In real life I cheer on the New Zealand All Blacks, but I am not sure how they are doing in these Olympics. I have never watched womens rugby, it's just as brutal and fast paced as mens.

Edited by Arynm
more love for rugby!
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SnideAsides

SnideAsides

  • Author
2 hours ago, candall said:

Very interesting!  That's amazing about doling out the spots evenly among the continents--do any other sports do that??

Yes, most sports do (with some individual sports frequently also limiting the number of athletes from any one country in an event). Aside from being how most of the athletes from those teeny-tiny African and Oceanian teams tend to qualify, it's how (for instance) Australia's completely overmatched men's water polo team has qualified for every non-Atlanta Olympics since 1948.

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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

(edited)
13 hours ago, candall said:

Very interesting!  That's amazing about doling out the spots evenly among the continents--do any other sports do that??

Why wouldn't South Africa want their team at Rio?

Tell us a couple of things to watch for, please, @FrenchCheese.  I saw a women's match today and "badass" barely covers it.  WOW.  OW!

All sports do that it is a way to limited the total number of athletes in the Olympics. It is more obvious with the team sports as only 12 teams are qualified. 

South Africa Olympics committee said they did not have enough money to take all the athletes that made the cut. Their explanations was that as a lot of their teams are selected thanks to the Africa quotta it does not mean they have a shot at the medal. So to selected in a team sports for the Olympics in South Africa you had to qualified through the world competition and thus be a good chance of medal. The men team did finish in the top four of the world series and are then a good chance of medal. The women team did not finish in the top four of their world series and thus had to qualified by winning a tournament for african team only. The won that tournament easily but still the committee said no. So the quotta went to the second best team: Kenya. It is a shame for the South African girls who don't have a quarter of the money the guys get and did their best to qualified. 

For the end women tournament, you can look forward for all the semi-finals as it is the 4 best team in the world. Australia has the speed, New Zealand has the game, Great Britain and Canada have the strength. 3 different types  of game but all very interesting to watch. Australia is still my favories but it is gonna be very close. USA will battle for the 5th place against France normally but I doubt it will be shown on television. USA and France have the same profiles. They are not too far from the top teams but they always end up losing. Maybe they are missing some key players.

For the rugby part:

To be simple in the rules: You pass the ball backward with your hands (you can only go forward by kicking the ball), you can only tackle the player with the ball (and it has to be bellow the shoulders) and once you are lying on the ground you can not play the ball anymore. After a forward you restart the game with a scrum (7s is mainly a restart, in 15s it is a rough battle of 8 vs 8), and more important fault you get a penalty. The defense has then to go back 10 meters from the penalty before being able to defend again. Main difference between 15s and 7s is that 15s is a game of territory (you want to be in the adverse part ofthe field), 7s is a game of possession (you want to have the ball all the time). That explains some of the tactical differences. But in the end if you want to score a try you want to create a situation where the attack side has a number superiority to the defense side (or play a 2 against 1).

But as a 7s spectator you want to look for the tackles (the one were the tackler keep moving forward after the hit) I have seen some great ones already (by Fiji, USA and France). It is funny because on TV it seems like hurting as hell but when you play you barely noticed them. You can also look for the offload, it means passing the ball while you are being tackle and before hitting the ground (Great Britain did some great offloads against Canada). Offloads are very hard to master (Fijian men are the best) and they are the main differences between a good team and a great team. After you can also look for the loop and swith combinaison that you mainly see after a penalty. It is a way to create a number superiority on one side of the pitch. With a loop you follow the sense of travel of the ball, and with a switch you go back from it (I am not sure it make sense for a non-player). Those 2 tactics are always the ones used even as bait. The player with the ball in hand has to adapt to the defense which can either take the bait or not.  And all the attack players need to have convincing run to trick the defense. New Zealand is the best at it (men and women) as they played and watch rugby before they can walk. And as a player that is always what I am the most proud of when we managed it (that means not so often at my level). 

I will do another post (if there is an interest) to present the men competition that is starting on Tuesday.

Edited by FrenchCheese
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candall

candall

Okay!  That helps a LOT!  Thank you for taking the time.  I realize the commentators would insult most of the audience if they started way back with those basics, but it's really, really helpful for people like me, who aren't familiar.  (Ha, I'm printing out your post, for reference material.)

So both teams are actively finessing some of their most complicated strategy on each other with those massive pileups--I wouldn't ever have figured that out.

 

Too bad about the South African women's team--old, old, old, old story.

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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

No problem, rugby is one of my passion and I like to help people understand it. Especially if you only know rugby from that Friends episode (as much as I like the serie, the rugby episode is garbage on the rugby part). I could talk for hours about it if you need more info I can send you private message. 

Those big pileups are called rucks and they are in fact a big part of rugby strategy. In 7s when you attack you want to avoid them but sometimes they are a necessary evil. And when played smartly they can lead to tries. 

And there is a lot of individual skills to learn to master the ruck art. If you are the tackle ones, you need to release the ball to your side quickly but you also need to wait for the support of your team (not releasing the ball while on the ground is a foul). If you are the tacklers you want to either get back on your feet as fast as possible or try to smartly disturb the release of the balls to let some of your teammate try to steal the ball (again it is also a foul to block the release of the ball). And if you are not involved with the ruck you want to reset your position to be able to either attack or defense once the ball is released. Canada won against France yesterday because they were better in that area of the game. 

One more tips: once you score a try you can try a transformation for 2 extra points ( it can make a big difference in some close games). In 7s the transformation is extra hard as you have to do a drop goal. That means you have to make the ball bounce to the ground before kicking it. 

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photo fox

photo fox

@FrenchCheese, thanks for all the info! 

I caught some of the US/NZ match. I was flipping through channels, and initially thought it was soccer/football. And then they picked up the ball and started tossing it around, and I realized, "whoa, this is rugby!" I love when the unusual sports get a chance to shine. 

It looked intense. I bet it's lots of fun to play. I loved when the teams would "boost" one player up in the air to get the ball. Hopefully they show more of it, now that I understand a little more about the strategy and gameplay.

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candall

candall

2 hours ago, photo fox said:

I loved when the teams would "boost" one player up in the air to get the ball.

I bet there's a word for that, too. <grin>

 

I have no streaming so I checked the broadcast schedule and NBC is dedicating a lot of airtime to Rugby.  The women wrap up today (Monday) but the program descriptions have men's qualifying rounds starting first thing on Tuesday and going, here and there, all the way through to an hour on Thursday afternoon about the medal games.  Not full games, but when NBC pairs the ever-popular women's gymnastics team medal finals with men's rugby in a specific segment, there's some respect.  (Surprising, considering they're looking a little bit like the All Phelps channel.)

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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

2 minutes ago, candall said:

I bet there's a word for that, too. <grin>

 

In fact it is called a lift. We have a name for everything. I have been both the lifter and the one lifted. I tell you it's much better to lift someone than to be lifted.  

Don't get me started on the names of the position of the player on the field but I can ;-) 

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legaleagle53

legaleagle53

2 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:

In fact it is called a lift. We have a name for everything. I have been both the lifter and the one lifted. I tell you it's much better to lift someone than to be lifted.  

Don't get me started on the names of the position of the player on the field but I can ;-) 

Rugby sounds almost as homoerotic as water polo.  ;-)

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photo fox

photo fox

2 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:

In fact it is called a lift. We have a name for everything. I have been both the lifter and the one lifted. I tell you it's much better to lift someone than to be lifted.

Hey, I almost called it a lift!  *pats self on back*

I think a big part of my enjoyment is that everyone seems to be having fun. Even after the US loss, they and NZ were all milling around congratulating each other, and it all looked so genuine. Stark contrast with some of the other "big name" events, where there seem to be one or two "stars" and all the other teammates or competitors are nameless fodder. 

This is much more "Olympics" to me - watching a bunch of people I've never heard of, playing a sport I don't understand, getting their moments in the sun. :-)

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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

(edited)

A hooker hooks the ball in scrum. It's the ones in the middle of the row of 3. It is also either lifting during lineout  or throwing the ball in. It is one of the dumbest position on the pitch but you need a smart player to play it. It happens to be my position and I am proud of it. 

Rugby is plenty homoerotic and you did not see training exercises. They are worse. 

Sportsmanship is a big part of rugby. You always show respect to the other team and the referee. And at the end of tournament you all share a beer all together. A very Olympic game indeed. 

Edited by FrenchCheese
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Rickster

Rickster

3 hours ago, candall said:

I bet there's a word for that, too. <grin>

 

I have no streaming so I checked the broadcast schedule and NBC is dedicating a lot of airtime to Rugby.  The women wrap up today (Monday) but the program descriptions have men's qualifying rounds starting first thing on Tuesday and going, here and there, all the way through to an hour on Thursday afternoon about the medal games.  Not full games, but when NBC pairs the ever-popular women's gymnastics team medal finals with men's rugby in a specific segment, there's some respect.  (Surprising, considering they're looking a little bit like the All Phelps channel.)

NBC seems to be making a corporate gamble betting on increasing the popularity of rugby with American viewers. They have shown quite a lot of mens sevens tournaments over the past two years, as well as some regular college matches and I can remember seeing NZ vs. the US in 15s from Chicago a while ago. Plus this fall they will be showing English League 15s rugby on NBC sports network, like they have been doing for English soccer.

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candall

candall

3 minutes ago, Rickster said:

NBC seems to be making a corporate gamble betting on increasing the popularity of rugby with American viewers. They have shown quite a lot of mens sevens tournaments over the past two years, as well as some regular college matches and I can remember seeing NZ vs. the US in 15s from Chicago a while ago. Plus this fall they will be showing English League 15s rugby on NBC sports network, like they have been doing for English soccer.

I was thinking about this last night.  In my lifetime, I've seen soccer become part of the American landscape--interesting if rugby extends our globalization further.  (Maybe one day we'll get to see the damn Eurovision Song Contest.)

Right now I'm watching Great Britain and New Zealand--or more specifically, Portia "Powerhouse" Woodman.  I'm about an hour behind the broadcast and I keep rewinding to figure things out, but I grasp much, much more now.

So that second yellow card from "the assistant referee" was pretty controversial--scorned as a harsh call by the commentators.  I'm thinking something like that could toll the bell in "7's."  Too late to call my bookie?

FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

1 minute ago, Superpole2000 said:

Heading into the women's final, there have been 33 matches played:

  • 5 matches decided by less than 10 points = 15%
  • 28 matches decided by 10+ points = 85%
  • 23 matches decided by 15+ points = 70%
  • 17 matches decided by 20+ points = 52%

I have watched eight matches on TV, and all were not close. Kind of disappointing.

But it is an unfair logic to apply to 7s rugby. If it was 15s we were watching I will understand your remark but we are talking about 7s. They are very rarelly close game as it fast paced. The dominating team is usually scoring tries at the end but that does not mean the game was not close. Like USA did with France for the 5th place. Or Canada did also against France in the quarter final. 

Well deserved from Canada. They lost in the pool against Great Britain but they were clearly the best team today.

 

2 hours ago, candall said:

that second yellow card from "the assistant referee" was pretty controversial--scorned as a harsh call by the commentators.  I'm thinking something like that could toll the bell in "7's."  Too late to call my bookie?

The second yellow card was well deserved. Tackling somenone who is still in the air is very dangerous. But we see the referee call as harsh because they already had a yellow card. And the english player was lucky that the new zealand did not fell on her head or it will be a red card.

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Trey

Trey

(edited)

Yay for Canada! What a great game to watch! Way to go! to all the women who participate in this exciting sport!!

Unfortunately, it appears Canada doesn't have a men's team in Rugby Sevens. That is according to the schedule on CBC Olympics site.

I just googled it and apparently Russia eliminated us in Monaco back in June.  Boo, hiss.

I think this is a worthy sport to add to the Olympics.

Edited by Trey
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FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

Congrats Australia who was the best team. I am very sad for Porti Powerhouse Woodman who is a very good rugby player for New Zealand. She did a big mistake and get a deserved yellow card. Great player makes dumb mistake sometimes too. I will think about that for my next mistake this week-end.

For the men competition

For info the World Series are a series of 10 rugby 7s tournament all around the world.

12 teams are qualified: Fiji (current winner of the World Series), South Africa, Australia, Great Britain, New Zealand, Kenya, USA, France, Argentina, Japan, Spain and Brazil.

  • Potential gold winner: Fiji, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and maybe Great Britain
  • Can pull a surprise win or a medal: USA, Kenya and maybe France, Argentina.
  • Will try to reach the quarter finals: Japan, Spain and Brazil

There are 3 pools of 4. That means all firsts and seconds of pools are qualified and the 2 best 3rd are going through the quarter finals.

Pool A:

  • Argentina (5th in the World Series): Good solid team with regular results but still no win in a World Series tournament (2nd place at best this year). They can make a medal but they are not the front runner. Player to watch: Juan Imhoff is one of the best 15s players in the world and has been selected especially for the olympics.
  • Brazil (not part of the World Series): They are here because they are hosting. I don’t know more about them.
  • Fiji (1st in the World Series): Magicians of this game and big favorite. They won the last 2 World Series and they have incredible skills. I hope they are in a good day as I am supporting them after France. Players to watch: All of them especially Osea Kolinisau who was the flag bearer for Fiji. He has been elected best player in the world of the 2014-2015 season.
  • United States (6th in the World Series): One win in the series in 2015 in London. It is a mixed team between experienced rugby players and very athletics ones. If they manage to get the hold on the ball they will be dangerous. Players to watch: Perry Baker and Carlin Isles are the fastest runners in the world but sometimes they miss their tackles. Zack Test is in my opinion the best player in that team.

Pool B:

  • Australia (4th in the World Series): Surprisingly they did not win one tournament this year but they are still a very dangerous team. Player to Watch: Ed Jenkins is the Captain and one of the top try scorers in the world too.
  • France (11th in the World Series): As for all sports France is highly unpredictable. They can win or lose to everyone. That stresses a supporter like me. I hold hope for the medal but not too much. Player to watch: Virimi Vakatawa is the x factor on that team. He has this “je ne sais quoi” that makes him great to watch. Everything looks easy with him.
  • South Africa (2nd in the World Series): One of the quickest team in the world with some incredible foot works to fool the defenses. They will play for the gold for sure. Players to watch: Cecil Afrika and Seabelo Senatla have the quickest feet. You think they are gonna run zig and they go zag and you did not see anything. Slowmotion has been inviented for them.
  • Spain (not in the World Series): They pulled a big upset by managing to get the last ticket to the Olympics. I do not know their level but they managed to beat Samoa for that ticket. I guess we will see their level soon.

Pool C:

  • Great Britain (England 8th in the World Series): It is mixed team between Wales, Scotland and England but mainly England. It is always a very solid team that makes few mistakes. I am just curious about the mix of players of different teams. Players to watch: Tom Mitchell is the captain and a typical English player. Dan Norton may be their X-factor.
  • Japan (not part of the World Series): Last year in 15 they surprised everyone by winning against South Africa. Can the 7s team do the same? I do not know the players enough to have a player to watch. But fun fact the player Lote Tuqiri shares the name of a famous Australian 15s player (they are cousins).
  • Kenya (7th in the World Series): they won for the first time a World Series tournament this year and there are in constant progress. It is a very physical team with a lot of power player. But they almost lost the qualifying African tournament. Maybe the pressure of the Olympics will get to them. Player to watch: Collins Injera best try scorer in the World Series history. That’s it. Cool fact to tell to your friend who is watching with you.
  • New Zealand (only 3rd in the World Series): They did not create that sport but they are the closest to perfection. At one point they hold all the world titles for both women and men in 15s and 7s. They have a difficult year but they are still very dangerous. Players to watch: Sony Bill Williams is simply a 2 times world champions in 15s and was also elected best rugby league (13s with slightly different rules) player. Well known for is offloads. He is here to make the difference and bring the gold medal home. Tim Mikkelson and DJ Forbes are also some more installed 7s players that can make the difference.

I will obviously cheer for France but Fiji is a close second. 

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TobinAlbers

TobinAlbers

(edited)

Thanks for the breakdown above @FrenchCheese !

France is off to a darn good start. Not that the ladies didn't have speed and power, but the game is definitely faster with the men charging and running over each other. 

Love all the rugby jerseys. I want to start a collection, LOL.

Edited to add: And now Australia is powering back. I love this game.

Edited by TobinAlbers
Arynm

Arynm

(edited)

What the hell New Zealand! I'm gonna need you to come strong in this tournament.

Lots of upsets in just the first couple of games with Japan winning against NZ and France beating Australia.

Can't wait for the Fiji game

Terrible call in the USA Argentina game. Never should have been called a try.

ETA: I love the phrase "sin bin" I enjoy when they send players there.

Edited by Arynm
DIsgust for a bad call
FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

YEAh France, now I want a medal. 

USA-Argentina, some weird calls from the ref (both the trys and the third yellow card for Argentina) but that is not the reason for USA lost. They did not manage to score a try for the first 2 minutes at 7vs6 and the last kick-off offered Argentina a try.  For information, a kick off is valid if it is at least 10m long and stay inside the pitch.

Sin bin is an horrible place to be send. It's like a kid being punish at school. You have to sit on those folding chairs and you have to wait for the referee to let you back in. 

What happened to you New Zealand ? You were so good last year? Japan did it again then after last year 15s World Cup. Let's see if they can hold the rythme for 3 days.

caprice

caprice

I've spent some time over the last 15 years being very slowly introduced to rugby, although m. caprice has YET to explain any of how it is played. Thanks for that, @FrenchCheese! While we mostly watch Six Nations, I've grown to love this game for its incredible pace and athleticism. I do hope we'll be able to see more of it here in the states.

Actually, m. caprice and I will be joining some of his coworkers to see Ireland and the All-Blacks in Chicago this November!

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Snipsa

Snipsa

I am very happy with the Bokke's performance thus far. Haven't yet conceded a point - I feel, especially in Sevens, that it is defence that makes or breaks a team, so I am very happy with the strong defence our boys have shown thus far.

 

Still a couple of sloppy handling errors, but the game against the French seemed to smooth out a lot of the edges they showed in the earlier match.

 

Here's to hoping their form continues in the same vein tomorrow.

 

Ps. I am shocked that Japan beat NZ. I am usually all for the underdogs, but not at the expense of a team like NZ!

Constantinople

Constantinople

11 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:
  • United States (6th in the World Series): One win in the series in 2015 in London. It is a mixed team between experienced rugby players and very athletics ones. If they manage to get the hold on the ball they will be dangerous. Players to watch: Perry Baker and Carlin Isles are the fastest runners in the world but sometimes they miss their tackles. Zack Test is in my opinion the best player in that team.

For what it's worth, the USA is also the defending Olympic champion.

ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

22 hours ago, FrenchCheese said:

YEAh France, now I want a medal. 

USA-Argentina, some weird calls from the ref (both the trys and the third yellow card for Argentina) but that is not the reason for USA lost. They did not manage to score a try for the first 2 minutes at 7vs6 and the last kick-off offered Argentina a try.  For information, a kick off is valid if it is at least 10m long and stay inside the pitch.

Sin bin is an horrible place to be send. It's like a kid being punish at school. You have to sit on those folding chairs and you have to wait for the referee to let you back in. 

What happened to you New Zealand ? You were so good last year? Japan did it again then after last year 15s World Cup. Let's see if they can hold the rythme for 3 days.

When you accept responsibility for your actions, Then you can accept the fact that you have erred.

When I'd get in trouble and went to my mom for help or guidance, She'd remind me of my stupidity by asking me "Who sent you (to get into this mess)?"

The same principles apply here?

FrenchCheese

FrenchCheese

54 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

When you accept responsibility for your actions, Then you can accept the fact that you have erred.

When I'd get in trouble and went to my mom for help or guidance, She'd remind me of my stupidity by asking me "Who sent you (to get into this mess)?"

The same principles apply here?

I was talking as a player who have been sent to the sin bin. You are high up on adrenaline. You don't think straight. And those chairs are uncomfortable on purpose. And last punishment you get to see the team you let down struggle without you.

But I did deserve to get sent there. 

I do not consider the USA reigning champion because we are talking about 15s instead of 7s. It is like saying you are softball champion instead of baseball. Close games but not really the same. 

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ElDosEquis

ElDosEquis

53 minutes ago, FrenchCheese said:

I was talking as a player who have been sent to the sin bin. You are high up on adrenaline. You don't think straight. And those chairs are uncomfortable on purpose. And last punishment you get to see the team you let down struggle without you.

But I did deserve to get sent there. 

 

And I was speaking as a student in a Catholic school.

The only difference is the person in the black and white uni running the game is a nun?

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