S07.E04: Hit and Run, Run, Run

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, Lii said:

I thought she broke up with him, but then it seemed like she didn't, because all his crap was still there and everyone was acting like they had a fight but were still together. So I think it was the millennial version of they're on a break. Either way, you don't get to hook up with someone the day after you break up with a guy you supposedly love, then get back together with him the next day. I got busted doing that once when I was 23, and was told unequivocally by everyone who found out that it definitely counted as cheating. At the very least, it's probably a sign that maybe you're not as deeply in loooooooove as you thought. Maybe that magical night in Madrid wasn't so magical after all? Color me shocked.

Is it okay to just ship Hanna and Mona instead? Spencer can have Liam. There, I fixed it.

i think she definitely did break up, but Caleb was coming over to find a way to make it up to her. I think she was definitely more than drunk when she tried to hook up with Marco, but even she realized that she couldn't, and she wasn't that person anymore. She even admitted that she was a little more than messed up over the whole situation. I don't ship Spencer/Caleb anymore, but I'm not putting the blame on Spencer for being so messed up and making a huge mistake. Emily reamed her out over it, so she didn't go consequence free. Personally, I don't find it cheating when you are clearly broken up with somebody, but different people have different standards. It's wrong, yes, but not cheating. 

But I'm on board with shipping Hanna/Mona, the true OTP of the show, and Spencer/Liam. Also ideal pairings? Aria/Jason, Emily/Paige (hey, I liked Paige!), and Alison/Bitch In Charge. 

[Lii]

I loved Paige with Emily. She was supportive without being overbearing, and her sleuthing buddy scenes with Caleb were awesome. She was the only one smart enough to get the hell out of rosewood and stay out. Haven't we been getting spoilers that she is going to come back in some capacity since like 6A? I'm so sad that it hasn't ever worked out. If we don't get Paige for the season of romance I'm going to be so sad.

[kitmerlot1213]

50 minutes ago, Lii said:

I thought she broke up with him, but then it seemed like she didn't, because all his crap was still there and everyone was acting like they had a fight but were still together. So I think it was the millennial version of they're on a break. Either way, you don't get to hook up with someone the day after you break up with a guy you supposedly love, then get back together with him the next day. I got busted doing that once when I was 23, and was told unequivocally by everyone who found out that it definitely counted as cheating. At the very least, it's probably a sign that maybe you're not as deeply in loooooooove as you thought. Maybe that magical night in Madrid wasn't so magical after all? Color me shocked.

Is it okay to just ship Hanna and Mona instead? Spencer can have Liam. There, I fixed it.

I LOVE THIS!!  Not only was the night they were drinking together in Madrid the most magical night ever, but apparently, all the time Spencer and Caleb hung out together in DC was also the best moments of their lives.  Seriously, the writers need to dial back on "Spencer and Caleb have this intense connection" drama because it's just not believable and it's extremely forced and makes both parties involved look like 12 year old girls with their first crush.

[Astapasta]

While I completely agree the Spaleb storyline seems forced as all of Spencer and Caleb's "intense moments" we keep getting forced fed have occurred off screen, I don't understand the Spencer hate. 

Before Spencer and Caleb moved forward, Spencer asked Hanna for her permission. Hanna would have been well within her rights to say "I wouldn't be comfortable with that" given Caleb was her first love. This episode proved Spencer would have understood that stance as she talks about the "dull ache" with Toby being engaged. Instead Hanna pretends to be noble and then once Caleb and Spencer move on, THEN she's heartbroken. 

Also, people keep bringing up how Spencer "cheated" on the elevator. Firstly, she had broken up with Caleb. Secondly, Hanna cheated on her FIANCÉ when she kissed Caleb and no one is giving her any grief for that. Hanna's actions were way more egregious  

And why should Spencer just automatically forgive Hanna because she's had a bad week? Regardless of Hanna and Caleb's past, he was Spencer's boyfriend when they kissed and Hanna had given Spencer her blessing... To then go and kiss him was conniving and wrong. She was "stressed" so she gets a pass? No. If you're going to give Spencer grief for her elevator tryst, then Hanna deserves it too, if not more, for cheating on her fiancé - who as far as we can tell is a good man who genuinely loves her AND for betraying her best friend - who she told to go ahead and move ahead with Caleb. Also, Spencer hasn't been horrible to Hanna. She was pleading with Caleb to stop his story and even before then had been very sensitive to the fact that Hanna had been through a lot. If my best friend made out with my boyfriend you can best believe my reaction would not have been as calm and reasonable as Spencer's. 

Finally, yes Spencer made some dumb decisions in HIGH SCHOOL with Melissa's boyfriends. I'm sure most of us have made mistakes when we were that age and would prefer not to be judged by them as adults. With Caleb, however, she did everything by the book. If you just hate it because you love Haleb then fine. But Hanna, in my opinion, has been the real grimey one here. She didn't want Caleb until she saw him happy with Spencer. She was happy with her rich, English/Australian bland guy because he was rich and she got to live the NY lifestyle. Then Caleb and Spencer move on and BOOM, now is the time to tell him about how she came back to the apartment. If Hanna was so in love and so hurt by this after 5 years, why did she not reach out to him to say this at any point over the last FIVE YEARS?! I call bull crap.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Astapasta

[dmc]

While I completely agree the Spaleb storyline seems forced as all of Spencer and Caleb's "intense moments" we keep getting forced fed have occurred off screen, I don't understand the Spencer hate. 

Before Spencer and Caleb moved forward, Spencer asked Hanna for her permission. Hanna would have been well within her rights to say "I wouldn't be comfortable with that" given Caleb was her first love. This episode proved Spencer would have understood that stance as she talks about the "dull ache" with Toby being engaged. Instead Hanna pretends to be noble and then once Caleb and Spencer move on, THEN she's heartbroken. 

Also, people keep bringing up how Spencer "cheated" on the elevator. Firstly, she had broken up with Caleb. Secondly, Hanna cheated on her FIANCÉ when she kissed Caleb and no one is giving her any grief for that. Hanna's actions were way more egregious  

And why should Spencer just automatically forgive Hanna because she's had a bad week? Regardless of Hanna and Caleb's past, he was Spencer's boyfriend when they kissed and she had given Spencer her blessing... To then go and kiss him was conniving and wrong. She was "stressed" so she gets a pass? No. If you're going to give Spencer grief for her elevator tryst, then Hanna deserves it too, if not more, for cheating on her fiancé - who as far as we can tell is a good man who genuinely loves her. Also, Spencer hasn't been horrible to Hanna. She was pleading with Caleb to stop his story and even before then had been very sensitive to the fact that Hanna had been through a lot. If my best friend made out with my boyfriend you can best believe my reaction would not have been as calm and reasonable as Spencer's. 

Finally, yes Spencer made some dumb decisions in HIGH SCHOOL with Melissa's boyfriends. I'm sure most of us have made mistakes when we were that age and would prefer not to be judged by them as adults. With Caleb, however, she did everything by the book. If you just hate it because you love Haleb then fine. But Hanna, in my opinion, has been the real grimey one here. She didn't want Caleb until she saw him happy with Spencer. She was happy with her rich, English/Australian bland guy because he was rich and she got to live the NY lifestyle. Then Caleb and Spencer move on and BOOM, now is the time to tell him about how she came back to the apartment. If Hanna was so in love and so hurt by this after 5 years, why did she not reach out to him to say this at any point over the last FIVE YEARS?! I call bull crap.

I don't hate Spencer but I think she puts herself in a bad position by constantly pursuing people that have past relationships with her friends/sister. Yes, I realize that once in awhile you are attracted to someone that may be tied to someone you know. However, three times is a pattern. Actually four times, because Toby first was attracted/went on a date with Emily. Also, not giving her pass because it was high school. In high school, I wouldn't have made out with two of my sister's fiances. Spencer isn't an idiot, she knew it was wrong. She obviously has some issues with this. Maybe because of her dad, who knows? In addition, Caleb wasn't a fly by night relationship for Hannah. They were serious, Hannah lost her virginity to him. Spencer does ask for permission but quite frankly since Hannah was engaged she probably didn't think she could say no to her. But really, what good friend would even ask?

[kitmerlot1213]

Actually, I can completely understand why Hanna never reached out to Caleb again.  The man gave her an ultimatum to choose him or choose her job and either way, he was going to Europe that night.  He wasn't interested in making a compromise because he had zero respect for her or for her career.  Yes, we know that she did try and make it back to their apartment before he left, but she was too late.  Knowing that someone who claimed to love you was capable of pulling that type of emotional blackmail would give anyone pause.

So Hanna attempted to move on with Jordan, she probably convinced herself she was happy but then seeing Caleb again brought her old feelings back.  But she still tried to do the right thing and encourage Spencer and Caleb to get together.  Hanna's isn't the bad guy in this either--she is just as emotionally confused as Spencer is.

My problem is that Spencer is holding Hanna responsible for Caleb's feelings.  Hanna kissed Caleb in a moment of high emotion and fear when she was about to serve herself up to their stalker, while Spencer kissed the guy in a bar because she was lonely.  Neither one is a healthy choice but Spencer is acting as if  Hanna's been coming onto Caleb the entire time they've been together which has been how long has it been, three weeks?  Hanna hasn't done anything to get in the way of the epic Spaleb romance and if Caleb is still in love with Hanna, that's on Caleb and Spencer needs to stop blaming Hanna for his waffling.

[Astapasta]

19 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Actually, I can completely understand why Hanna never reached out to Caleb again.  The man gave her an ultimatum to choose him or choose her job and either way, he was going to Europe that night.  He wasn't interested in making a compromise because he had zero respect for her or for her career.  Yes, we know that she did try and make it back to their apartment before he left, but she was too late.  Knowing that someone who claimed to love you was capable of pulling that type of emotional blackmail would give anyone pause.

So Hanna attempted to move on with Jordan, she probably convinced herself she was happy but then seeing Caleb again brought her old feelings back.  But she still tried to do the right thing and encourage Spencer and Caleb to get together.  Hanna's isn't the bad guy in this either--she is just as emotionally confused as Spencer is.

My problem is that Spencer is holding Hanna responsible for Caleb's feelings.  Hanna kissed Caleb in a moment of high emotion and fear when she was about to serve herself up to their stalker, while Spencer kissed the guy in a bar because she was lonely.  Neither one is a healthy choice but Spencer is acting as if  Hanna's been coming onto Caleb the entire time they've been together which has been how long has it been, three weeks?  Hanna hasn't done anything to get in the way of the epic Spaleb romance and if Caleb is still in love with Hanna, that's on Caleb and Spencer needs to stop blaming Hanna for his waffling.

Hanna kissing Caleb absolutely is her getting in the way of their romance given that is what threw Spaleb's relationship into turmoil. Hanna waiting until Caleb is with Spencer to confess she came back is also getting in the way of their romance. Why confess now when he is with someone else? Your best friend at that? I'm not saying Caleb isn't to blame here too, but completely absolving Hanna of what she did is absurd to me. She cheated on her fiancé, lied to her best friend about her feelings about Spaleb, and then went behind her back to NOW confess she went back to the apt and to kiss him. The whole "she was stressed and scared" thing doesn't move me, plus it was her idea to serve herself up on a silver platter to begin with.

Also, Spencer is holding Hanna responsible for kissing Caleb. Not for Caleb's feelings. Spencer has every right to be mad at Hanna for kissing Caleb.. It befuddles me as to why people assume she should be OK with Hanna and Caleb making out because they dated in high school... It's Spencer's boyfriend now thanks to Hanna's blessing. Regardless of why Hanna gave it, she gave it. So making out with Caleb after that makes her wrong and Spencer has every right to be angry with her. 

and did everyone miss the scenes where in front of Spencer Hanna was holding hands with Caleb and being all over him? To the point Spencer told Emily "what do you want me to do, pry myself between them on the couch." 

The point is... Hanna has done A LOT wrong in this scenario. And the only reason I'm pointing that out and giving Spencer and Caleb a break is because everyone is already ragging on them. You don't get a free pass to make out with your best friend's boyfriend because you're scared. You don't get a free pass to cheat on your fiancé because you're scared. Sorry. And if you DO, by that logic Spencer had just committed multiple felonies on top of having that moment with Caleb so she was probably freaked out too when she hooked up with Marco and, on top of that, incredibly drunk.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Astapasta

[Lady Calypso]

I agree with everything you said. Hanna is absolutely responsible for her actions. We've been ragging a lot on Caleb, and we've ragged on Spencer and both deservedly so. We know better for each character. Hanna does need to hold some responsibility, although the reason I don't want Spencer this mad at her is because I think Hanna was trying to move on and things got confusing. I totally get and sympathize with Spencer's anger at Hanna, though. It was really wrong for Hanna to do that (I actually ended up missing the last four episodes of 6B so I've had to go back and look at the scene in itself), especially knowing that Spencer and Caleb are together and that she gave them her blessing.

It's why this love triangle freaking sucks. I think it sucks more because we all know Marlene King is just going to put all the high school pairings back together, so what is even the point? If I knew for sure that Hanna and Caleb were done with each other since now they've been broken up longer than they've been together, I'd be ok with Spencer/Caleb. People move on, they grow, and they change. However, since it's obvious what the endgames are and it'll always be Hanna/Caleb, Ezra/Aria, and Toby/Spencer (who knows what the hell's going on with Emily's love life), this love triangle is just creating hate between three characters who used to be fan favourites. Because look, we're now getting Spaleb fans being pissed at Hanna for getting in the way, Haleb fans are pissed at Spencer for dating Caleb and hurting her very best friends. and Spoby fans are pissed at both Hanna and Caleb, but mostly Caleb for daring to sleep with his best friend's ex girlfriend, even though they've been over for three years. 

[Astapasta]

TOTALLY AGREE! I don't like Spaleb because it completely ruins what was so amazing about this show to begin with and that was the amazing friendship of the girls. No matter what A threw their way they were able to get through it because they have such an incredible bond. So to drag Spencer, Hanna and Caleb's characters through this just to end up with the original ships is a cheap tactic and totally unnecessary. I guess since this is the "season of romance" they needed to up the drama? Boo. 

[Perfect Xero]

Jenna raped Toby, right? Why does the show act like they're just estranged (step)siblings.

 

15 hours ago, mac123x said:

Caleb the drama queen running out on Spencer like he ran out on Hanna.  I repeat my call for Caleb to eat a dick.

 

I thought she broke up with him?

When someone breaks up with you and then doesn't even want to open the door for you moving your clothes and personal items out of their home isn't "running out on" them or being a drama queen, it's respecting their wishes and giving them their space.

What's the alternative? Caleb doesn't move his stuff out and expects to just keep living with Spencer after kissing one of her best friends/his ex?

[nara]

Spencer herself said she would forgive Hanna and just needed a little more time, so hopefully this is all moot.  

I am curious about whether Caleb left town or just went to a hotel. Also, will he move on to Aria next? Or perhaps Emily will be revealed to be bisexual. Kidding, but not really.

[Writing Wrongs]

I cracked up at the looks on the Liars' faces when they heard Jenna's tap-tapping.

Mona was the highlight of the episode. 

[DigitalCount]

8 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

Jenna raped Toby, right? Why does the show act like they're just estranged (step)siblings.

 

 

I thought she broke up with him?

When someone breaks up with you and then doesn't even want to open the door for you moving your clothes and personal items out of their home isn't "running out on" them or being a drama queen, it's respecting their wishes and giving them their space.

What's the alternative? Caleb doesn't move his stuff out and expects to just keep living with Spencer after kissing one of her best friends/his ex?

Yeah, I agree on both of these. The show does not demonize Jenna as she deserves to be. Even when Emily blasted her it was more in the sense of "you're a bad person who hurt my friend in a romantic context" rather than "you forced a person to have sex with you against his will." Jenna is a monster who got hurt for unrelated reasons. Really, all of the former villains get a kind of rose-colored edit for whatever reason. Mona, Jenna, Ezra, Charlotte, Ali, Pigtunia...the list goes on.

Furthermore, if Spencer broke up with Caleb, it does make sense for him to move out. If she didn't, then she was kissing another man while still in a relationship with Caleb.

And finally, Hanna most definitely was trying to break Caleb and Spencer up last season, blatantly and frequently. The most common defense, even here, was that it was Spencer's fault for getting with Caleb, and Ian and Wren were brought in as proof of modus operandi. I see no proof there other than proof that Melissa seems attracted to grown men who are attracted to teenage girls. Furthermore, as has been said, Hanna committed the bigger infraction of cheating on her actual fiance. In-story, it doesn't matter that the audience doesn't care about Jordan, because Hanna did (or said she did). He didn't deserve any of Hanna's treatment of him that we've seen. You can't call dibs forever, even after you ostensibly move on. Should it be expected for Hanna to get married and still have a say in who her high-school ex dates years later?

[RachelKM]

6 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

Jenna raped Toby, right? Why does the show act like they're just estranged (step)siblings.

 

 

I thought she broke up with him?

When someone breaks up with you and then doesn't even want to open the door for you moving your clothes and personal items out of their home isn't "running out on" them or being a drama queen, it's respecting their wishes and giving them their space.

What's the alternative? Caleb doesn't move his stuff out and expects to just keep living with Spencer after kissing one of her best friends/his ex?

I guess you're right that it was appropriate that he move out.  It just seemed pretty complete, every trace of him out, considering just the night before he was begging to talk to her and she said she wanted to let him in but she couldn't yet (granted he had no way of knowing her "not right now" was due more to external circumstance than her feelings).  But I guess it really will depend on where he went and what he does next.  The last few episodes dating back to the end of 6B have prejudiced me against Caleb pretty heavily.  So... I guess I can put away my pitchfork for a week and wait and see.

I don't think Spencer has a pattern of going after other people's men.  Toby doesn't count at all,.  He had a crush on and was friends with Emily first, but they were never actually a couple.  They went on one half a date during which she became afraid he might be attacking her. And that sort of ended things.   And, as has been noted before, both the things with Melissa's fiances were when she was a high school and they were grown men and they specifically related to her dynamic with her sister, which was it's own thing.  Heck, the thing with Ian was pre the start of the show which would make her, like, 14. 

As for Caleb, it was 3 or 4 years since Caleb and Hanna broke up and Hanna was engaged to someone else and gave the okay.  I genuinely think that if Hanna had said it wouldn't be okay, Spencer would have continued to keep her distance as she had apparently been doing for years even without Hanna being present to see it. 

Hear, Hear! to the sentiment of "Why did they do any of this at ALL?"  They took my three favorite characters and made them all look bad. 

On a brighter note, Mona's "You didn't" to Hanna about leaving the bracelet in Wrollins' car made me smile.  So there's that. :)

[Astapasta]

I'm rewatching the episode now and laughing hysterically at how stupid these girls are.

Mona "torching the car  would have been a bonehead move."

Hanna "why?! It would have erased blood and fingerprints!"

Mona "a torched car in the middle of the woods tends to raise questions. What did you do with the burner phone?"

Hanna and Aria *deer in headlights look*

Why are they so clueless?! You really think an abandoned, torched car doesn't raise eyebrows?! I mean I know the Rosewood PD is incompetent, but gimme a break. Hanna was smarter 4 seasons ago when she at least dumped Wilden's car in the river where it was less likely to be found. Also Aria and Hanna were shocked at the concept of a burner phone.  As if they aren't living in a world where people can steal your face and psychics pull you from shallow graves. 

I think Mona needs to be in every episode from here on out. She's the only one with a functioning cerebrum. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

It's So Cute When Toby Thinks He's Sharing A Big Reveal Everyone Already Knows On Pretty Little Liars

Yet again, murder is making the Liars all weird, the weenies.

[mercfan3]

Caleb hasn't been ruined for me, because he's one of the girls..if that makes sense. 6 seasons of him has earned that. So I'm not happy with him, in the same way I'm not happy with Hannah and Spencer, but he's not ruined. He hasn't done anything awful yet. He's just been overall annoying. In the same way that all the girls have at some point. (I also don't really blame him for the Hannah/Caleb break up. I don't see it as a "not on his timelines"..I see it more as Hannah and Caleb growing a part because of lack of time together and both forgetting their priorities.) I just want the stupid storyline to be over. We all know he's ending up with Hannah..so quit trying to make this dramatic, and just get us there. (And for that matter, get Toby and Spencer together..) 

[Jack Shaftoe]

My soul is hurting from all the contrived melodrama in this episode.

Spencer and that guy in the elevator was the kind of scene that makes you embarrassed to admit you are watching a certain show. I have nothing against porn porn-style scenes but combining all this melodrama and "time is of the essence" with Spencer hooking up with some random guy in an elevator is so silly and character-assassinating. And I refuse to believe Spencer would be dumb enough to get so drunk at that particular moment.

So sick of Mona always being shown as so much smarter than the Liars. Not this is much of an achievement these days.

Also, what was with all the meta anvils? "We are back where we started" repeated like ten times? You are not back because in season 1 and 2 the show was actually good and the characterization made sense. Now they are just rehashing plots with 400% more murders, 6789% more melodrama and 5894684648% more alcohol. Problem is, that doesn't make said plots any less rehashed and silly.

Last but not least, we have the incredibly stupid rationale for covering Rollins's death. Let's say Hanna did speed up. The guy had locked up his wife and then kidnapped her. A quick examination would show that Ali is not actually crazy and that he gave her all kinds of drugs different than listed in his reports. I mean, as stupid as the Rosewood police is they did buy Emily's version when she killed Cousin Nate and this time there are even more witnesses who can tell the same version of events.

What's the deal with Elliot's stolen identity? What use is stealing the identity of someone much older than you?

Unintentionally hilarious moments - Spencer looking for Caleb in the closet, everyone looking at the cameras and me saying "Sorry, the Machine won't help idiots like you", Spencer and Emily loudly discussing destroying evidence in a bar (these girls never learn a thing, do they?).

All in all, some decent acting but I can't help but think some of the actors might as tired and bored of the plots of the show as I am.

[kitmerlot1213]

Hanna's hasn't been trying to break anyone up--when she grabbed Caleb's hand, she was simply reaching out to someone she used to rely on.   And if Hanna has been plotting this entire time to break up Spencer and Caleb, then why hasn't she swooped in and claimed Caleb for her own?  Why is she pretending to be engaged to Jordan?  Why is she encouraging Spencer to talk to Caleb and to work things out?

I will always enjoy Mona showing up and pwning everyone in the room--yes, it's over the type, but it still makes me smile.

[RachelKM]

46 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

Hanna's hasn't been trying to break anyone up--when she grabbed Caleb's hand, she was simply reaching out to someone she used to rely on.   And if Hanna has been plotting this entire time to break up Spencer and Caleb, then why hasn't she swooped in and claimed Caleb for her own?  Why is she pretending to be engaged to Jordan?  Why is she encouraging Spencer to talk to Caleb and to work things out?

I will always enjoy Mona showing up and pwning everyone in the room--yes, it's over the type, but it still makes me smile.

I don't think anyone said that they thought Hanna was actively trying to break Spencer and Caleb up, just that grabbing his hand and being so casually closed to him was inappropriate vis-a-vis her relationships to Caleb, Spencer, their relationship with each other, and her own fiance at the time.  Whether or not it was conscious, she was placing herself in position to rely inappropriately on one of her best friends' boyfriends while herself engaged to another man.  And I actually think that Hanna didn't really face or acknowledge the reality of her actions until Caleb approached her after the kidnapping with what seemed to be an opening to start again while he was still technically her best friend's boyfriend.  

But we can definitely agree that Mona showing up and taking care of shit (along with her near audible eye-rolls) is the best. 

ETA: I forgot to say that I agree with you mercfan3 to the extent that Caleb breaking up with Hanna seemed justified by the story telling, even if I didn't love his method.   That said, his arsing off here again on Spencer cast a slightly different hue on my view of the his leaving Hanna.  Still think it was clear that they'd grown apart and it had been brewing for quite some time, I just think his tendency to bail without a trace once he decides it's truly over kinda sucks along with his other assy behavior in the last several episodes.   

Edited July 13, 2016 by RachelKM

[Black Knight]

What was that nonsense Spencer was spewing at the beginning about how this was a well-thought-out plan and so that made it first-degree murder? Ali on her own initiative dropped a pin on Rollins's location and sent it to the Liars, and they got in the car and chased off after Ali and Rollins. It wasn't a plan, much less a well-thought-out one!

It's weird when Aria is basically the one being right about everything. She was right in the beginning when she wanted to go to the cops, and she was right the morning after about those visuals, considering that they were all sitting there obviously stressed - if they'd been pretending to have a cheery brunch, it would've looked okay, but they just looked like the guilty co-conspirators that they are.

All of Mona's looks and sighs of exasperation at how stupid the PLLs are were just gold.

It's refreshing to see Ali get some of her edge back. I understand that she spent years keeping her head down because being the assholish, conniving bully that she was before led to her having to spend so much time on the run, afraid for her life. It made sense that after all of that she just wanted her life to be quiet and peaceful, however boring as it was as a viewer to watch her be so vanilla. But now that she can see that didn't really work out any better for her - she got conned, gaslighted and tortured by Rollins, and was still a prime suspect in the death of the sister she loved and tried to help - hopefully vanilla Ali is gone for good.

And Aria's comment to Spencer about not wanting Ali ever to know that they were the ones who ratted her out as Charlotte's supposed murderer was probably foreshadowing. When Ali finds out, she's not going to be thrilled with the PLLs in general or Emily in particular. I figure that'll be the next roadblock for Emison - they'll start getting closer and then Ali finds out Emily thought she had killed her sister and pulls away.

[WhosThatGirl]

I still think Spencer is acting kind of bad, but hey I'm allowed to have my own opinion and so is everyone else. I also think Hanna leaning on Caleb, she was going into a life or death situation and not thinking clearly. I think her telling Caleb she came back before he left on his trip was more because she wanted him to know. She wanted him to know that she didn't just give up. At this point I take it as she just felt he needed to know. She has since owed up her behavior. Which makes me mad about this whole thing is how Spencer is also now just saying things that make me want to punch her-causing friction with the other liars, the "She kissed him. Recently!" to Emily, leaving out the bit where it was when Hanna was about to go into the A plan last season. That's actually a pretty big thing to not mention. Also.. when she said something about giving Hanna "years" to come to her feelings about Caleb. From my understanding didn't the liars like not connect for 4 years before PART B last season? How was Hanna supposed to know Spencer and Caleb were having magical nights when they didn't really talk? Hanna first hearing about their feelings was last season. 

And Spencer is ruined. I blame the hair. And also, the way these two talk about how magical and memorable their stupid nights were. No one talks like this ever, Unless you are in a romantic comedy. Which PLL ain't.  Or wasn't.

I hate everyone. Except Mona. And Jenna. I hope she starts playing a flute to get people off her porch again. 

[RachelKM]

9 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I still think Spencer is acting kind of bad, but hey I'm allowed to have my own opinion and so is everyone else. I also think Hanna leaning on Caleb, she was going into a life or death situation and not thinking clearly. I think her telling Caleb she came back before he left on his trip was more because she wanted him to know. She wanted him to know that she didn't just give up. At this point I take it as she just felt he needed to know. She has since owed up her behavior. Which makes me mad about this whole thing is how Spencer is also now just saying things that make me want to punch her-causing friction with the other liars, the "She kissed him. Recently!" to Emily, leaving out the bit where it was when Hanna was about to go into the A plan last season. That's actually a pretty big thing to not mention. Also.. when she said something about giving Hanna "years" to come to her feelings about Caleb. From my understanding didn't the liars like not connect for 4 years before PART B last season? How was Hanna supposed to know Spencer and Caleb were having magical nights when they didn't really talk? Hanna first hearing about their feelings was last season. 

And Spencer is ruined. I blame the hair. And also, the way these two talk about how magical and memorable their stupid nights were. No one talks like this ever, Unless you are in a romantic comedy. Which PLL ain't.  Or wasn't.

I hate everyone. Except Mona. And Jenna. I hope she starts playing a flute to get people off her porch again. 

I don't understand what Hanna knowing or not knowing Spencer and Caleb were spending time together has to do with the fact that Hanna never reached out in 4 years. She had 4 years and the whole point is that it shouldn't have taken specific knowledge that Caleb was moving on to prompt her to do it, if she wanted to do it at all.  And personally, I think that the fact that she had knowledge he was moving on is why you do she shouldn't tell.  What good is that information to him now? It didn't seem he was spending time dwelling on it and beating himself up.  So there wasn't much upside to telling him except to repair their bond. 

As for the circumstances of the kiss, I don't really think it's all that relevant considering Hanna's behavior leading up to that night.  She was sitting too close and holding Caleb's hand the whole lead up and even came up with the plan and first confided in Caleb. Maybe she was falling into old patterns, but they were the patters from when they were a couple. Even if it was just the circumstances, I still think  Spencer gets at least a few days to be upset.  She just found out like a day before. Yes they have pressing ish going on, but there's only so much compartmentalizing a person can do and I think Spencer was trying her best to keep her upset out of the situation. 

I get the Hanna feels bad and is trying to do what she thinks is the right thing now, but all Spencer asked for was a little more time.  Now, if Spencer is still demonstrably upset with Hanna a few episodes from now, I will probably be irritated with her too. I need Spencer to at least hug Hanna and tell her that, whether or not it still hurts, she loves her and isn't angry anymore soon. 

[Mabinogia]

I would rather have suspended my disbelief that these clearly 20 something women are high school girls than have gotten any of the crap we have gotten since the time jump. All of it sucks. I would rather have Jessica than Mary. I would rather have the girls as friend than the terrible triangle. I would rather see high school girls with their high school (in some case teachers but still, school related) boyfriends than a bunch of 20 something women all falling back into their childhood relationships.

Mona was the only good thing about this mess.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Mabinogia

[nara]

I wish that Hanna had accidentally hit and killed Allison and the Liars spent the rest of the season framing Rollins for it. I think that would have been a better story, with the twist that they turned the tables on the predator.

[NeenerNeener]

That door scene was the first time all season that I could believe in Spencer and Caleb as a couple, rather than just two old friends having sex for lack of anything better to do. And then he left. So much for that.

If it wasn't for Mona I would have stopped watching this show about midway through Season 2.

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, nara said:

I wish that Hanna had accidentally hit and killed Allison and the Liars spent the rest of the season framing Rollins for it. I think that would have been a better story, with the twist that they turned the tables on the predator.

This is everything. But the show does seem stuck on Alison being alive. For various reasons. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Thank goodness for Mona -- who else can steal a car from the middle of the woods, manage to get a guy to change out the windshield no questions asked, and then sneak the car back to its original spot all while looking gorgeous.

If all the PLLs tragically died in a barn fire while dressed in ball gowns in the S7 finale due to their own stupidity (Alison kicked over a lamp near some straw, for example), while Mona watched from afar and opted not to call 911 -- I would be ok with that.

[insubordination]

Quote

And also, the way these two talk about how magical and memorable their stupid nights were. No one talks like this ever, Unless you are in a romantic comedy

This one time, at band camp....

 

My only prob. with the elevator scene was that it looked like 50 Shades of Grey movie (even the hair). I think it's in character for Spencer to do something self-destructive at the point she was at (turn to alcohol, do something unwise).  Not that she has a history of one night stands exactly, but she can flip out.

Someone mentioned Daddy/parental issues. Maybe Melissa was always the #1/golden child, and Spencer tries to be perfect to keep up. The perfect act and rigorous standards take too much of a toll on her, and she is unable to maintain it - enter self-destruction phase (pills or whatever). I think she wants to be special to someone.  She told Caleb she loved him, and he doesn't feel the same way.  She is probably feeling really small right now and is angry with Hanna because Hanna is the one who is loved. Maybe even kissing Melissa's boyfriends was a way of feeling special.

Eh! I know she's a fictional character and the writers probably don't think this deeply about it, but Troian is a good actress and raises the material they give her. And they sure have given her some shit this year.

Now I just want her Spencer to realise that she is special and loved by Hanna/Emily/Aria. I hope the show ends by showing indestructibility of the powerful friendship. I could forgive it just a little if it did.

That's why Mona was the perfect 'A' with believable motivations. She wanted 'in', but would never get it.

Edited July 14, 2016 by insubordination

[Astapasta]

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I still think Spencer is acting kind of bad, but hey I'm allowed to have my own opinion and so is everyone else. I also think Hanna leaning on Caleb, she was going into a life or death situation and not thinking clearly. I think her telling Caleb she came back before he left on his trip was more because she wanted him to know. She wanted him to know that she didn't just give up. At this point I take it as she just felt he needed to know. She has since owed up her behavior. Which makes me mad about this whole thing is how Spencer is also now just saying things that make me want to punch her-causing friction with the other liars, the "She kissed him. Recently!" to Emily, leaving out the bit where it was when Hanna was about to go into the A plan last season. That's actually a pretty big thing to not mention. Also.. when she said something about giving Hanna "years" to come to her feelings about Caleb. From my understanding didn't the liars like not connect for 4 years before PART B last season? How was Hanna supposed to know Spencer and Caleb were having magical nights when they didn't really talk? Hanna first hearing about their feelings was last season. 

And Spencer is ruined. I blame the hair. And also, the way these two talk about how magical and memorable their stupid nights were. No one talks like this ever, Unless you are in a romantic comedy. Which PLL ain't.  Or wasn't.

I hate everyone. Except Mona. And Jenna. I hope she starts playing a flute to get people off her porch again. 

I guess I am confused as to how people want Spencer to be acting. So far these episodes have occurred over what, a couple of days? In that time she has watched her boyfriend and her best friend cuddle up together before her very eyes and was clearly uncomfortable, but didn't say anything because they had bigger issues. Then she finds out they kissed and still hardly mentions it except in passing... Her discussion with Hanna outside of Ali's house was quite calm and rational. But what, the next day she should be buddy buddy with Hanna again? On what planet would that make sense??? She just found out that she was betrayed by her best friend and boyfriend while being stalked again and committing multiple felonies again. She has a right to feel upset. And telling Emily that Hanna kissed him is the truth. This whole "but it was a tense moment!" disclaimer doesn't matter. She kissed him. Period. Also, she didn't just clear the air. She specially said "I never stopped loving you." How is that defensible when he has a girlfriend and she is engaged??? Why would he need to know that at this juncture? What good could possibly come from it? "Oh heyyyy I know you're in a relationship now and I'm engaged and I had 5 years to have this conversation , but by the way I still totally love you! K bye. Good luck with Spencer!" If she really cared about Caleb knowing she didn't give up she would have told him at some point in the last 5 years. It's tantamount to emotional manipulation to wait until someone moves on to now profess your love. Also, it shouldn't matter if Hanna knew about Caleb and Spencer getting close. If her feelings are genuine they would not be dependent upon Caleb's relationship status and so Caleb and Spencer's burgeoning friendship over the last few years would be moot  

Also, this life or death situation was completely self imposed. Not lessening the impact of the stress upon Hanna but she opted to do this. As a team with Caleb. I wonder why she opted to do this as a  team with Caleb?

I don't think Hanna is a bad person and, in fact, she is one of my favorite characters, but people are making some quantum leaps to justify her bad behavior while saying Spencer is ruined for having hurt feelings and needing time to heal. She even told Hanna in this episode that she would forgive her but she needed more time. I think it's fair to ask for more than a day to process a major betrayal... Personally I think Spencer has handled this with a lot more grace than either Caleb or Hanna deserve. Whether we like Spaleb or not, they are a couple. So.. Hanna betrayed her best friend and fiancé and Caleb betrayed his girlfriend. Those are just facts. You can say they don't matter to you because you love Haleb, but there is no changing them either. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Astapasta

[Lii]

Man, I wasn't trying to say Hanna and Caleb should be let off the hook for their various crimes of selfishness and assholery. I was just pointing out that Spencer had some serious splaining to do as well. 

Anyone feel like suffering through last week's episode again to put to rest the question of whether or not they were all the way broken up or just on a break? I still feel like the show left that really unclear, until Caleb's abrupt peace out at the very end.

[WhosThatGirl]

I feel like we're all entitled to our opinions but I don't think Hanna was activity trying to create a wedge. Something was happening and it was a life or death situation, so in my opinion, I think she was just acting on impulse. She even clarified that more than once and I still stand by that when Spencer said she gave Hanna years to figure out her deal with Caleb didn't make sense to me. Obviously, Hanna didn't know Spencer was growing feelings for Caleb until she returned back to Rosewood and talked to her and it's obvious that none of the girls know how Caleb and Hanna's breakup went down. It paints a very different picture knowing he gave Hanna "come on this trip with me" or "we're over". But whatever, moving on cause honestly I don't want to talk about this stupid triangle anymore. It's on the list of one of the worst things the show has done on my list. Charlotte being uber a will forever be number 1. 

So moving on. I really don't have any interest in the big mystery at all this season and that's a problem. But like I said, I can see why most of the actors are bored, we do seem to running around in circles. I think we're supposed to get why the liars are so bad at covering up the tracks and worse off because it's been years since they had to do anything like this and I get that, sort of. Like, with Spencer's monologue about her life and how she was done with all this, but.. they are making worse mistakes than they did at 16. Even when this wasn't the norm for them, they were better than what they are doing now. Covering up an actual accidental murder that they really had no intention of causing harm makes no sense and I think it's supposed to mirror The Jenna Thing, but the difference is, even if Jenna becoming blind wasn't the actual intent, they wanted to cause harm when they went to plant the sting bomb, they wanted to cause Toby harm-not physical harm but, you know what I mean. This was a genuine accident. And also something I feel they could have explained. 

Aria has been the awesome the last two episodes. It really is a shame she's probably going to get proposed next week and then she's going to be all, "I can't help on the plan guys, I have to pick the best sonnet to put in my vows with Ezra". 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

I guess I am confused as to how people want Spencer to be acting.

Not getting drunk right before performing a very important task that involved driving would be a good start.

Quote

Covering up an actual accidental murder that they really had no intention of causing harm makes no sense and I think it's supposed to mirror The Jenna Thing, but the difference is, even if Jenna becoming blind wasn't the actual intent, they wanted to cause harm when they went to plant the sting bomb, they wanted to cause Toby harm-not physical harm but, you know what I mean. This was a genuine accident. And also something I feel they could have explained. 

Well, I think Alison caused that fire quite deliberately but the Liars should have learned their lesson - lying in such occasions tends to land them in even bigger trouble. Spencer yelling that "they had no choice" was laughable. She might as well have broken the fourth wall and said "Okay, we know we have a much better choice but if we had even a bit of common sense the show would have been over long ago, so deal with it". The only thing this story has going for it is that the "OMG, what if Sara tells the police she electrocuted herself?!?" plotline was even dumber.

Quote

My only prob. with the elevator scene was that it looked like 50 Shades of Grey movie (even the hair).

Now we finally know why they changed Spencer's haircut - to try to cash in on the (inexplicable for me) popularity of 50 Shades of Abuse, I mean, Grey. I really wouldn't put it past them. They have been so desperate to make the show edgier and more adult.

Quote

And also, the way these two talk about how magical and memorable their stupid nights were. No one talks like this ever

Yes, not even Aria and Ezra talk like that about their precious relationship.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[mac123x]

I'm wondering when and how Marco will come back to haunt them.  He probably works for Tanner, right?  Or the FBI, who really should have been setting up camp in Rosewood years ago. 

[Lady Calypso]

6 hours ago, Lii said:

Anyone feel like suffering through last week's episode again to put to rest the question of whether or not they were all the way broken up or just on a break? I still feel like the show left that really unclear, until Caleb's abrupt peace out at the very end.

I mean, I remember from last week about Caleb trying to beg Spencer that he really did want to be with her, but Spencer shut that down, saying that Caleb didn't love her and she didn't know if she wanted to stay in the relationship. I honestly took that to mean as they were breaking up, since she never said anything about taking a break to figure this out. Caleb seemed to take it in that way too. I am rewatching the scene now for the wording. Spencer does say that she wants to be with someone who loves her. Caleb then begs for another chance to make it work, and Spencer's reply is that 'maybe [she] can't'. So, I took that as an ending to their relationship. 

I mean, I get that Caleb seemed to have just moved out (if he's not in next week's episode, then I'll seriously side-eye him), but hopefully it doesn't mean that he's running away. Spencer just said that she couldn't talk to him right that second, and that she needed more time. Honestly, if Caleb moved out just to give Spencer space, but he continues to be there and not leave town, that'll be on the road to redemption for his character, in my eyes. If he fights to at least try to make it work, I'll start to see him as old Caleb again. 

Again, this love triangle messes up everyone involved. I also think it's been starting to mess with Toby's relationship a little bit. Not that he's just spending all this time on investigating Rollins, but that there are hints of Toby still being in love with Spencer, and now I'm afraid that Toby's going to do something stupid, or his fiancee will turn out to be super evil and that'll pave the way for a Spoby reunion. Which...no, thank you. I'd like to have one of the regulars/semi-regulars not end up with their original pairing. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Which...no, thank you. I'd like to have one of the regulars/semi-regulars not end up with their original pairing. 

This should be easy enough since the chances of Alex, Ben and Sean coming back are rather slim.

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

This should be easy enough since the chances of Alex, Ben and Sean coming back are rather slim.

Heh, very true. I guess 'original' pairing is a poor choice of words! 

[peterdonovan]

I love how they just happened to have shovels in the car and Hanna's extensions get worse every episode.

[Jack Shaftoe]

One of the reasons the show is in such dire straights is that seven seasons of the same main cast (well, 3 of them, Aria, not so much) being tormented by near-omnipotent maniacs and having other bad stuff happen to them is just too much. I mean, in season 1 alone Hanna had to experience the following misfortunes:

- the body of her friend being discovered (well, at least she thought so)

- her mother slept with a detective to keep her from being arrested

- she started being cyberbullied

- her dad openly favoured her new stepsister

- she wrecked her boyfriend's car

- Lucas Nice Guy-ed her then she had to dance with him and give him false hope

- Her mother stole some money, giving her cyber tormentor more blackmail material and at some point Hanna was sure her mother was headed for jail.

- She was run over by a car, resulting in a broken leg.

- A made her experience the bulimia nightmare all over again.

- Her boyfriend dumped her, then the guy who took her virginity turned to be spying for Jenna.

I am sure I am missing some other traumatic events but I am sure you get the drift. Emily and Spencer have had rather similar lists of traumatic experiences. It's way too much. This season in just 4 episodes Hanna was kidnapped, dumped her fiancee and killed a guy. The fact that the Liars hardly ever score even small victories against their enemies makes this an even bigger problem.

In short - heaping misery on the protagonists alone does not make for a good drama.

[kat165]

I can't tell one season apart from another, meaning with all the "a" and "b" parts of a season I have no idea where one season ended and another started. I have no idea what season we're on now. I just hope it's the last. I am so tired of watching this show, but I've stuck it out this long I guess I'm in it until the end. Which I hope we're in sights of. Soon.

One of the few things I've liked about the series is the friendship between the girls and now we've got this ridiculous triangle. So that's ruined. And Alison was more entertaining dead. She's been a dud these last few yrs.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yup Ali should have always stayed dead. I have no idea why the hell the show brought her back and then pretty much runied her. At first I thought that she was playing possum with he girls pretending to be all sweet and fragile but apparently that's her MO now. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[JenMcSnark]

On 7/12/2016 at 6:00 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Man I wish it was 2010 again and when I liked this show and most of the people on it. Everyone sucks. That Caleb spouting "remember that night in DC" speech through the door to Spencer with Hanna also there, it's like, what show am I watching? And Spencer is oh so terrible. I really hate her now and that pains me. why is Spencer being such a bitch about the whole thing? She really is. I really want to hit her. 

 

This.  So much this.  

[Lii]

10 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yup Ali should have always stayed dead. I have no idea why the hell the show brought her back and then pretty much runied her. At first I thought that she was playing possum with he girls pretending to be all sweet and fragile but apparently that's her MO now. 

Dead Ali was best Ali. I don't know if it's because of the mystique she used to have or if the actress just can't handle being a bigger part of the show or what, but it's awful. I enjoyed the flashes of Boss Bitch Ali we got this week until they decided to neuter her again in her hospital scene with Aria, but I'm sure that's all past us now that she's back to being someone's bitch again. Stop trying to make Alison a sympathetic character with feelings and shit, Show! No one cares about that shit! Bring back the stone cold bitch who blinds girls for the lulz and flies tiny airplanes wearing masks of her own face and creates Dark!Ali personas with wigs and fake names because why not, and also hangs out with ghost whisperers and talking parrots. Otherwise just kill her off again to free up the budget for more Mona.

[Bwill3133]

Aria you are so helpful and active with no Ezra around. Keep it up! The writers have to know at this point they do this right? 

Welcome back Jenna!

I miss sociopath Ali. At least she was entertaining. I mean I get she was trying to become a better person but that does not make good television. 

So Hanna ran over a crazy imposter who was torturing their friend and taking her God knows where and these geniuses decide to cover it up? They actually should have called the police on this one. Go figure. Thank you Mona for trying to help them. I always like that she has Hanna's back no matter what. And  of course she's the first one to know her ring is fake. Don't leave Mona! They clearly need you. 

Which brings us to this shitty triangle. My 2 favorite Liars loving the same guy. No thank you. As someone who didn't hate the idea at first, it sucks now. The storylines have gotten worse but the Liars friendship has always been the highlight for me and many others and Caleb/Spencer/Hanna has ruined it. I understand Spencer's anger at both and I liked she told Hanna, "give me some time," or whatever and she agreed. Hopefully they work through this and Caleb is off doing whatever. ( I know there's little chance of that happening) 

[mac123x]

4 hours ago, Bwill3133 said:

miss sociopath Ali. At least she was entertaining.

I watched a fan video on the YouTubes that was a supercut of all the Vivian Darkbloom related scenes.  It was a great reminder of how well this show used to do mystery, and what an amazing actress Sasha P is when she's given good material.

 

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 11:43 AM, Perfect Xero said:

When someone breaks up with you and then doesn't even want to open the door for you moving your clothes and personal items out of their home isn't "running out on" them or being a drama queen, it's respecting their wishes and giving them their space.

You're right, that's a good point.  My initial reaction was to assume that the writers were doing a George Lucas ("It's like poetry, it rhymes") repeat of Caleb ghosting on Hanna.  I guess we'll see next week if he's still in Rosewood. 

1.  "I wanted to give you the space you need, but I'm here when you're ready to talk"

2.  "I poured my heart out to you through a chained door and you didn't immediately rush into my arms so I vanished into the dark Pennsylvania night and left the picture I bought in Madrid of dogs playing poker behind just to taunt you."

Hopefully the writers chose option 1.  It would make Caleb look like an adult, and would make me think that he was more invested emotionally.  the last couple of episodes he was coming across as using Spencer as a fall-back girlfriend because he couldn't have Hanna.

[RHJunkie]

On 7/13/2016 at 0:02 PM, dmc said:

I don't hate Spencer but I think she puts herself in a bad position by constantly pursuing people that have past relationships with her friends/sister. Yes, I realize that once in awhile you are attracted to someone that may be tied to someone you know. However, three times is a pattern. Actually four times, because Toby first was attracted/went on a date with Emily. Also, not giving her pass because it was high school. In high school, I wouldn't have made out with two of my sister's fiances. Spencer isn't an idiot, she knew it was wrong. She obviously has some issues with this. Maybe because of her dad, who knows? In addition, Caleb wasn't a fly by night relationship for Hannah. They were serious, Hannah lost her virginity to him. Spencer does ask for permission but quite frankly since Hannah was engaged she probably didn't think she could say no to her. But really, what good friend would even ask?

I don't hate Spencer either but I do lack sympathy for her when I see her in troubled romantic relationships because of this exact reason. She has created a pattern of developing feelings/attractions to the people who are already in her life by means of those closest to her. I think she has some serious daddy issues. I feel Spencer looks at relationships around her and doesn't just think 'I want something like that'...she actually wants exactly what she sees. That's not an excuse for what Hannah did but it seems like poetic justice that Spencer got a taste of her own medicine. In high school you may be young and naive enough to believe you're in love with some guy you just met, you may choose a guy that you know isn't good for you but are hopeful enough to think you can change him. You may make a slew of stupid decisions when it comes to guys but engaging with men who are in relationships with your family or friends - that isn't a stupid high school decision. That's just a stupid decision and major betrayal. Spencer doesn't get a pass for that.

[Lii]

I've been wondering this... how long ago did he break up with Hanna? Before the magical night in Madrid? Before the magical night in (D.C.? New York? I already forgot the second magical magical night's location, not gonna lie.)? I mean, the original plan was for Hanna to go to college, which I assume she did before getting the shitty job he hated. That would mean they broke up a year or less ago. Not much time for all these magical nights. I'm wondering if that's not part of why Hanna looked like she wanted to puke during that scene. 

[RachelKM]

49 minutes ago, Lii said:

I've been wondering this... how long ago did he break up with Hanna? Before the magical night in Madrid? Before the magical night in (D.C.? New York? I already forgot the second magical magical night's location, not gonna lie.)? I mean, the original plan was for Hanna to go to college, which I assume she did before getting the shitty job he hated. That would mean they broke up a year or less ago. Not much time for all these magical nights. I'm wondering if that's not part of why Hanna looked like she wanted to puke during that scene. 

I'm pretty sure the the dialogue has confirmed it's been 4 years and that Caleb and Spencer have been spending time together for 2 or 3.  But I could be wrong. And in that same time Hanna met Jordan and got engaged. 

ETA:  I don't recall how or whether they addressed Hanna and college.  I got the impression she decided not to go.

Edited July 15, 2016 by RachelKM

[fitzcarraldo]

Quote

I think Melissa was very much a part of Ian and Wren attraction. But Spencer didn't like that about herself. She doesn't only want guys she knows by that avenue, and held off attraction to Caleb for a long time. If she had this motice of what other girls have wouldn't she have liked Caleb in hs? I wish the show would explore if they liked each other because they were separated from their trauma. No liars in her life but here is Caleb who knows her.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

ETA:  I don't recall how or whether they addressed Hanna and college.  I got the impression she decided not to go.

As far as I remember, she went to college but somehow long before graduating she was able to already have a career that involved working such long hours and going to so many stupid parties that Caleb decided to leave her. Sure, that makes no sense but since when has this stopped these writers.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe