Escaping Polygamy - General Discussion

[KBrownie]

I'm not sure if I mentioned this when the episode with Jennifer, Andrea and Jessica's sister, first aired on A&E, but seeing the update at the end of the most recent airing that she cut off contact with her sisters when she went back to the Order, I found Jennifer to be sort of cruel and manipulative.  She played everyone, and I mean everyone, perfectly to get exactly what she wanted:  to marry her first cousin. 

Don't get me wrong, she was 100% right that she should have the freedom to choose whoever she wanted to marry, but the way she went about it was not cool at all.  She took complete advantage of the fact, knowing that Andrea and Jessica help people escape the Order, that her sisters would jump at the chance to help her, the baby sister they had to leave behind when they themselves escaped.  All she had to do was play up that the was scared and wanted her freedom and she would have their help guaranteed.  Jennifer also took advantage of the fact that her parents wouldn't want to lose another daughter/member to Jessica and Andrea's cause, so they would likely give her what she wanted in exchange for her coming back.  

 

 And then she cuts Jessica and Andrea off.  That shows, to me at least, that she was never interested in re-establishing sisterly/familial bonds with them whereas you could tell that both Jessica and Andrea were genuinely glad to help her and have her back in their lives again.  I found it telling that there were no interviews with either Jessica or Andrea about Jennifer going back.  They've commented before when people that they'd helped went back.  That probably was a punch in the gut for them both.  No matter what their rational mind told them about the chances of her going back, it must have meant a lot to have their sister back only for her to use them as she did.

Oh well.  I take some small solace in the fact that Jennifer won't ever see any more of that $60,000 she put into the Order's "bank."  That money was long gone.  It was probably gone as soon as she put it in there.  Not a smart move at all.  She was lucky to get as much as she did when she and Andrea had to haggle for that $5,000 of her own damn money when she was still planning on leaving.  What kind of bank can't cash one of its own checks?  A fake and illegitimate one, no doubt. 

[Galloway Cave]

55 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

I found it telling that there were no interviews with either Jessica or Andrea about Jennifer going back.

Wasn't there some video sent to them by The Insider that showed Jennifer's wedding? It was held in some rec hall-looking place with paper streamers every where. They watched it and pointed out various people they knew and they saw Jennifer dancing with their father. They were very disappointed in Jennifer and talked about how their father gave her exactly what she wanted to draw her back to The Order. But I agree with you; Jennifer played her sisters to get married to her boyfriend/cousin/half-brother. She wasn't a good enough actress to pull off the anguish of wanting to REALLY leave.

[KBrownie]

2 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

Wasn't there some video sent to them by The Insider that showed Jennifer's wedding? It was held in some rec hall-looking place with paper streamers every where. They watched it and pointed out various people they knew and they saw Jennifer dancing with their father. They were very disappointed in Jennifer and talked about how their father gave her exactly what she wanted to draw her back to The Order. But I agree with you; Jennifer played her sisters to get married to her boyfriend/cousin/half-brother. She wasn't a good enough actress to pull off the anguish of wanting to REALLY leave.

You're right.  I forgot about that.  It just sucks that they are doing real good trying to help people who really want the help for their own flesh and blood to manipulate them like that.  And they'd do it again in a heartbeat to help her if she asked.

[kassa]

Well, if she "won" I hope she enjoys her prize, because as KBrownie points out, her money is gone and so is her chance for freedom. If her husband is devout they may not take it out on him, but could still punish her by giving him another wife pronto. I'm sure her sisters would still help, but starting over broke with little kids will be a hell of a lot harder than being college age with 60 grand in your pocket.

I'm sure production will be harder now by the order deliberately spamming them with phony escape requests. Remini has the advantage of dealing with people who are already out and functional (and zillions to pick and choose from).

[Court]

Did anyone watch the premiere? That girl seemed legitimately terrified. But I never understand why they just don't leave their stuff and run. They spend too much time getting it.

Also, this is listed as episode 3 but only 2 have aired? Really one since the other one wasn't new at all. I saw a commercial for after the escape but can't find it on demand. 

[KBrownie]

2 hours ago, Court said:

Did anyone watch the premiere? That girl seemed legitimately terrified. But I never understand why they just don't leave their stuff and run. They spend too much time getting it.

Yeah, she was terrified.  She was only 17, but was so softspoken and scared as if she had spent her entire life being beaten and subdued into complete submission.  That kind of terror doesn't come from a situation/religion where everything is hunky dory like they try to make it out to be.  Hopefully, she can build a bond with the family she has outside of The Order.  I felt so much for her when she was describing being beat with a board and when she broke down and the interviewer came over and hugged her.  

But despite all that, she knew what she needed to do and was determined to get out.  She knew that this was her only chance to not be stuck married to a first cousin and pregnant within a year when that's not what she wanted for herself.  And to have that added pressure of being the first of her father's 150 (or whatever ridiculous number it was) kids to leave The Order.  She was such a contrast to Jennifer who came off as spoiled and manipulative.  I wish her nothing but the best.  I hated the "To be continued" at the end.  I hope she was able to be emancipated from her parents.  She was almost 18, had a place to go, there was no reason to send her back to her parents.  And she said her father was her mother's uncle?  So her father was also her great-uncle and her mother was also her cousin?  Ugh.  It's no wonder the genes in that family are so strong and they all resemble each other.  They're reproducing with each other.  I thought "Ava" looked exactly like Andrea, Jennifer, Shanell, and Jessica even though they were cousins and not sisters, but Andrea, Jessa, et. al are probably related to Ava's mother as well since the mother was the niece of the father who is Andrea, Jessica, etc.'s uncle.  I would LOVE to get a look at that family tree they keep in their office.

Edited June 29, 2018 by KBrownie

[Court]

20 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Yeah, she was terrified.  She was only 17, but was so softspoken and scared as if she had spent her entire life being beaten and subdued into complete submission.  That kind of terror doesn't come from a situation/religion where everything is hunky dory like they try to make it out to be.  Hopefully, she can build a bond with the family she has outside of The Order.  I felt so much for her when she was describing being beat with a board and when she broke down and the interviewer came over and hugged her.  

But despite all that, she knew what she needed to do and was determined to get out.  She knew that this was her only chance to not be stuck married to a first cousin and pregnant within a year when that's not what she wanted for herself.  And to have that added pressure of being the first of her father's 150 (or whatever ridiculous number it was) kids to leave The Order.  She was such a contrast to Jennifer who came off as spoiled and manipulative.  I wish her nothing but the best.  I hated the "To be continued" at the end.  I hope she was able to be emancipated from her parents.  She was almost 18, had a place to go, there was no reason to send her back to her parents.  And she said her father was her mother's uncle?  So her father was also her great-uncle and her mother was also her cousin?  Ugh.  It's no wonder the genes in that family are so strong and they all resemble each other.  They're reproducing with each other.  I thought "Ava" looked exactly like Andrea, Jennifer, Shanell, and Jessica even though they were cousins and not sisters, but Andrea, Jessa, et. al are probably related to Ava's mother as well since the mother was the niece of the father who is Andrea, Jessica, etc.'s uncle.  I would LOVE to get a look at that family tree they keep in their office.

Yes! I noticed the resemblance too. The family tree fascinates and horrifies me.

 

In one of the episodes, they did show a part of it but it would take hours to go through it.

[TanyaB812]

I don't know if this  question ever crossed into anyone's mind.  Does anyone believe these polygamist leaders KNOW it's wrong what they're doing, such as a 40 something year old man courting a 14 year old girl?!  Don't the young girls ever wonder WHY their to-be husband cannot be someone who is under the age of 25?  Don't these young girls find it creepy to be with a man who is older than the age of their father?  I imagine some do, and that's why they want to escape bc they know it's wrong, the older man business, and the polygamy.  But doesn't the thought of marrying someone you were brought up with, sharing so much in common (half-brother, cousin), ever creep them out?  I personally would vomit if my cousin showed any sexual attraction to me.  

[Galloway Cave]

3 hours ago, TanyaB812 said:

Does anyone believe these polygamist leaders KNOW it's wrong what they're doing, such as a 40 something year old man courting a 14 year old girl?!

Yes, they know it's wrong. That is why everything is hidden and the people in the sects are forbidden to speak out about it. That is why those who DO speak out or try to escape are beaten, separated from their families, sent away to secret places or any number of other soul-crushing behaviors to keep them in line with The Principle. The leaders want power, control, money and young bodies. They don't care what the cost is to the followers. They are sick, sick men. The followers are brainwashed into thinking they can only get to heaven by doing what they are told but they know in their hearts and mind what they are asked to do is wrong. In this day and age of technology more and more are learning that their leaders are wrong and they can leave. There are more groups out there to assist them in leaving, more "out" relatives to help.

As the older leaders die or are imprisoned, hopefully the sects like The Kingstons and FLDS will dwindle in size as the younger men don't want to carry on the shameful practices. Even in the milder sects like AUB and independent groups, the younger generation is not practicing polygamy. I bet within 20-30 years or so, we will see the polygamist population shrink considerably in the US.

[Evil Queen]

Not all know its wrong though. The thing is like Galloway Cave said they are brainwashed. From the time they are old enough to understand anything at all they are going to be taught this is the way it is. In the case of the Kingstons, they think they need to keep bloodlines pure. So they basically create the most twisted inbreeding you can think of. Not like this is the only people that have ever done it (think royalty, etc). The difference is that these people are not what they believe they are or try to make others believe. Those of us never raised in such disgust can see it for what it is but those in it are not always going to. Most go along with it because of being told they won't get into heaven if they don't do this or that. If there are to many younger boys they dump them out in the middle of nowhere with very little to fend for themselves. They showed one of the boys that it happened to and sadly he is one of the many that ended up homeless junkie. They tried to help him a few times. I wonder what has become of him since they did that last update on him. From what we have seen of some of the girls that have left, they didn't leave because of thinking it was wrong but they weren't going to be able to marry who they wanted. There has been a few of them they helped leave only to return at some point after because they are told they can marry whichever cousin or whoever. In a sick twisted way its almost like a spoiled brat having a fit over not getting something they wanted so they behave a certain way until they get their way. Those girls are obviously not running away to get out of that disgusting lifestyle but to get the husband they want. Which those few I have a bit of an issue with it being shown. On one hand it shows the hold these groups have on these people but on the other it may encourage others to do the same and waste the time of those that could use the help that want to honestly leave for good, kwim? There is really a lot of questions that are thought of when it comes to the way they are. I always wonder what excuse they give when a boy is not around anymore (because they dumped him) or someone runs away. You can only use the same bs so many times before some (at the very least) might start questioning what is said, right? Yet maybe not because of the brainwashed ways of life. I don't know since I have never lived that kind of life.

I wish I could say the same about the hopes of these groups dying off as they all get older but I doubt it. The amount of children that are born in these groups is not a small number. As long as they can keep the brainwashing going and keep going the way they do there isn't much that will change. Hell even Warren Jeffs is still controlling his group and he is in jail for life. Yet they believe he will get out one day. They still listen to his bs he spouts to whoever visits him and records it. These are 2 groups. There more of them out there as well. When you have disgusting shows like they have on TLC acting like its just a wonderful lifestyle to live its a bit hard to get those watching and buying that crap to see the truth that is really going on. Which btw, I will NEVER EVER watch the bs shows on that channel and am beyond disgusted with them being on. 

[Evil Queen]

On 6/20/2018 at 4:23 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

The escape in that second episode was definitely on before.  That's the family that tried to sue saying the girls and the production company invaded their house.   Their version of the events is pretty different than what we saw and, editing not withstanding, some of what they said paints them in a very good light and is pretty doubtful.......That the girls got in by reaching through a doggy door to unlock the door even though that's pretty hard to do and we saw the girls just walk into the house.  And that the family was "discussing alternatives" even though you could hear the screaming and arguing from the street as soon as the girls pulled up.  They also insist the film crew came back into the house after the police arrived while we saw them on the street filming through the front door.  That could have been left out but I have doubts the police would have let that happen or if they did try to come in and the family said No the police would have kicked them out to make sure nothing escalated and they had control of the situation.

The lawsuit was dismissed by the way - the family just stopped filing the paperwork/complaints they needed to submit.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3693106&itype=CMSID

Yea they weren't going to get any place with that so called lawsuit. I can imagine there are reasons they stopped doing what they should to try to keep it going but I would bet anything it was being done in hopes it would not only stop the show (which it wasn't going to happen) but also to try to scare the girls into stopping with the help they give to those that want out (which it wasn't). 

On 6/20/2018 at 2:34 PM, KBrownie said:

I'm not sure if I mentioned this when the episode with Jennifer, Andrea and Jessica's sister, first aired on A&E, but seeing the update at the end of the most recent airing that she cut off contact with her sisters when she went back to the Order, I found Jennifer to be sort of cruel and manipulative.  She played everyone, and I mean everyone, perfectly to get exactly what she wanted:  to marry her first cousin. 

Don't get me wrong, she was 100% right that she should have the freedom to choose whoever she wanted to marry, but the way she went about it was not cool at all.  She took complete advantage of the fact, knowing that Andrea and Jessica help people escape the Order, that her sisters would jump at the chance to help her, the baby sister they had to leave behind when they themselves escaped.  All she had to do was play up that the was scared and wanted her freedom and she would have their help guaranteed.  Jennifer also took advantage of the fact that her parents wouldn't want to lose another daughter/member to Jessica and Andrea's cause, so they would likely give her what she wanted in exchange for her coming back.  

 

 And then she cuts Jessica and Andrea off.  That shows, to me at least, that she was never interested in re-establishing sisterly/familial bonds with them whereas you could tell that both Jessica and Andrea were genuinely glad to help her and have her back in their lives again.  I found it telling that there were no interviews with either Jessica or Andrea about Jennifer going back.  They've commented before when people that they'd helped went back.  That probably was a punch in the gut for them both.  No matter what their rational mind told them about the chances of her going back, it must have meant a lot to have their sister back only for her to use them as she did.

Oh well.  I take some small solace in the fact that Jennifer won't ever see any more of that $60,000 she put into the Order's "bank."  That money was long gone.  It was probably gone as soon as she put it in there.  Not a smart move at all.  She was lucky to get as much as she did when she and Andrea had to haggle for that $5,000 of her own damn money when she was still planning on leaving.  What kind of bank can't cash one of its own checks?  A fake and illegitimate one, no doubt. 

I mentioned this in the other thread about these ones and how I feel about it. Its like one one hand its good to show but on the other how many find out about it and will try to take advantage of them or any other group helping those to escape to use and abuse for their own selfish wants. They used this help like a spoiled brat wanting a toy they couldn't have and throwing the tantrum until the sucker parent gives in. I have to hope that the girls would think twice about helping her again in the future if she was to ask. And you are right on about that money she got. There is no way she was ever going to see that 60k. She is lucky to have seen what she did and I bet it was right back in the Order's bank the second she got back....whatever may not have been used that is. 

On 6/28/2018 at 8:49 PM, Court said:

Did anyone watch the premiere? That girl seemed legitimately terrified. But I never understand why they just don't leave their stuff and run. They spend too much time getting it.

Also, this is listed as episode 3 but only 2 have aired? Really one since the other one wasn't new at all. I saw a commercial for after the escape but can't find it on demand. 

Yes I watched. I am not sure why they decided to list repeated ones as new and part of the season. I am a little annoyed about that since they are not new. I know it was explained why they did it but they should have instead done a marathon of the show or played 2-3 each week leading up to the new season. So we see a new one now then a repeat of another right after it but they are calling it part of the season it looks like. SMH 

I always wonder why they need whatever as well. In some cases I can see making sure to have a little more then paper work/ids they should have but I would think a bag or 2 packed with clothes and the papers you need to take with is good enough to start with. It could just be that they feel they need more then they do to get started in life outside there and its more of a comfort thing to them, does that make sense? Yet I know I have never understood why the girls never tell them pack 2 bags/papers needed and that is it so its a quick easy in and out in many of these situations.

On 6/28/2018 at 11:11 PM, KBrownie said:

Yeah, she was terrified.  She was only 17, but was so softspoken and scared as if she had spent her entire life being beaten and subdued into complete submission.  That kind of terror doesn't come from a situation/religion where everything is hunky dory like they try to make it out to be.  Hopefully, she can build a bond with the family she has outside of The Order.  I felt so much for her when she was describing being beat with a board and when she broke down and the interviewer came over and hugged her.  

But despite all that, she knew what she needed to do and was determined to get out.  She knew that this was her only chance to not be stuck married to a first cousin and pregnant within a year when that's not what she wanted for herself.  And to have that added pressure of being the first of her father's 150 (or whatever ridiculous number it was) kids to leave The Order.  She was such a contrast to Jennifer who came off as spoiled and manipulative.  I wish her nothing but the best.  I hated the "To be continued" at the end.  I hope she was able to be emancipated from her parents.  She was almost 18, had a place to go, there was no reason to send her back to her parents.  And she said her father was her mother's uncle?  So her father was also her great-uncle and her mother was also her cousin?  Ugh.  It's no wonder the genes in that family are so strong and they all resemble each other.  They're reproducing with each other.  I thought "Ava" looked exactly like Andrea, Jennifer, Shanell, and Jessica even though they were cousins and not sisters, but Andrea, Jessa, et. al are probably related to Ava's mother as well since the mother was the niece of the father who is Andrea, Jessica, etc.'s uncle.  I would LOVE to get a look at that family tree they keep in their office.

Sadly these people in the Kingston group are all related to each other in some way, shape or form. Remember they are the ones that want to "keep the bloodlines pure" so they marry within their group and not from out of it. I can't imagine going through all that kind of a tree to figure things out. Its hard enough doing my own genealogy but doing one from a group like Kingstons. YIKES! Heck I have seen some crazy stuff in my own and my husband's lines way back. Something else with the mixed relations with this group, how many have medical issues from it? I know Jessica has brought that up before about worries on that when she had her own kids. Even though she married outside that freak group there is always the worry of something when you don't know what your own genes could hold. Its sad for those like her that have to think about that and are trying to lead a normal life away from that crap. 

"Ava" broke my heart. I am glad the producer got up and hugged her when she did. How could one not? I wish she would have left when she had the marks from being beaten with the paddle. I am hoping we see she is allowed to get emancipated. I can't imagine what would come if she had to go back. 

This is something that has bugged me from the time we heard Jessica talk about how she got out with her sister. Considering it was over being physically abused, how do these courts allow for the other kids to stay in the homes of those that it ends up going that way? I take it this is why these parents don't keep the fight up over the ones that end up in court over it but if this was any of us in a life outside of this sick twisted group, child services would be at the door taking the others. So why not with them as well? Its something that bothers me so much because you know they just move to another one of the kids. 

[Galloway Cave]

53 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

Which btw, I will NEVER EVER watch the bs shows on that channel and am beyond disgusted with them being on. 

Well, the good news is that the kids on those shows all say they are not living polygamy and the ones that have married so far aren't. And the shows aren't showing the lifestyle to be wonderful. In fact, just the opposite. I lived in a polygamist town (independents) for eight years and none of the descendants of the original patriarchs are practicing polygamy. So that is where I am getting my hope on the situation! The old leaders will die, their brothers will die and there may or may not be anyone as charismatic as them waiting in the wings to take over. Warren Jeffs has prohibited couples from having children in his sect for a while, so that may slow down the continuation of the FLDS. It may take longer for the Kingston sect due to the large number of children, as you said Evil Queen. Something really does need to happen with the Kingstons to blow that sect apart. 

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Galloway Cave said:

Well, the good news is that the kids on those shows all say they are not living polygamy and the ones that have married so far aren't. And the shows aren't showing the lifestyle to be wonderful. In fact, just the opposite. I lived in a polygamist town (independents) for eight years and none of the descendants of the original patriarchs are practicing polygamy. So that is where I am getting my hope on the situation! The old leaders will die, their brothers will die and there may or may not be anyone as charismatic as them waiting in the wings to take over. Warren Jeffs has prohibited couples from having children in his sect for a while, so that may slow down the continuation of the FLDS. It may take longer for the Kingston sect due to the large number of children, as you said Evil Queen. Something really does need to happen with the Kingstons to blow that sect apart. 

I have wondered how Jeffs thinks he can keep the couples from having kids or sex at all? Or why when like you said it does slow down how it keeps his sick group going. I am a bit surprised they haven't had someone step up and do what he did to become the so called "prophet". There are some that have to know he will never get out of jail. Which not like I would want someone else dictating whatever for them and wish they would wise up to the fact he is not getting out. Sadly there are how many of these sects out there that fall under the FLDS? There are ones in other countries as well if I remember right. At least I know in Canada and Mexico. With Kingston I figured that at some point sadly the way they will end up going down to nothing is because of what may happen with issues that come up over time from mixing up the gene pool like they do within themselves. Otherwise it will really take many to just take the stand and do something to stop it all. Sadly the government is doing nothing that they should on it to put a stop to this disgust. 

[Galloway Cave]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Sadly the government is doing nothing that they should on it to put a stop to this disgust. 

With the Kingstons, I think a bunch of them are in local and State government in Salt Lake City. So they may be influencing, behind the scenes, anything that deals with someone in The Order. In Short Crick, Mohave County Sheriff's Office finally was able to take over law enforcement from the marshal's office, which was just staffed with FLDS and God Squad members. Unfortunately, they are keeping their horrible behavior behind locked doors and compound walls and if any word of it leaks out, the brainwashed are told to lie to law enforcement that everything is alright. It's only when someone cooperates (Jessica, for example) that LE and the justice system can do their job. Even then, witnesses will lie and other family members remain in danger.

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Sadly there are how many of these sects out there that fall under the FLDS?

FLDS is located in Arizona, Utah, Texas, North and South Dakota, British Columbia and Mexico. The Order is mainly in Utah. AUB is in Utah and Montana. The rest are Independants. More and more polygamists are either AUB or Independants, since they can live more like everyone else and not draw attention to themselves. The AUB claims to be "not like the FLDS" but they are just as oppressive towards the women and children, only in street clothes. Independants are all over the spectrum, from polyamorous folks to brutal, deadly cults (Rock Theriault sect in Canada). There used to be a wonderful blog on Tumblr named The Principle, run by someone whose parents had left one of the sects. It had all the sects mapped out, family wreaths for many of them and lots of scanned documents. Sadly, people on Pinterest started using the data without consent and the site shut down. So much polygamy history, gone.

[njbarmaid]

July 8, marathon on lifetime going until 4am eastern

[Court]

Lifetime needs to stop with their shenanigans. Skipping episode numbers and packaging episodes as new when they're not or only some of it is.

This latest one was mainly an old episode where Rachel Jeff's tries to talk to her sister and maybe about 10 minutes of Ava. I would have liked to see and hear more about her and how she's adjusting to everything. I'm thrilled they granted her emancipation. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I saw a little bit the other day. The part that I saw was pretty old, as I discovered that I had seen it some time ago.   So, are there new episodes coming on later this month?  Maybe, I misread the LIfetime website. 

[gesundheit]

I was under the impression that one of last night's two episodes was brand new, but to be fair I only got hooked on this show during the promotional marathon so I wouldn't recognize a new one from a rerun!

[Galloway Cave]

The first episode is new, the second episode is a rerun, but with a 5 second update at the end. That appears to be the format this season.

[Scarlett45]

Hello everyone- I just got into this show. Watching episode 1 of season 4 now after seeing little bits here and there. 

[buttercupia]

the repackaging of old episodes as new is really annoying.

[cajpgh]

Just watched the episode with Issac finding his mother....it was pretty unsettling to see Issac's inability to truly break out of all the years of oppressive isolation and speak honestly to his mother..but i guess his "flight" away from her was a little hopeful that he wasn't ready to give back in  to the pull of the religious routine of obedience. I was struck by Issac's affect...never sure if he was acting or it was truly him struggling to figure out how to be his own person....i am never sure how "real" any of these shows are.

One question i had throughout ...what happened to his brother who reached out for the help to get him out originally...did he ever meet up with him and wouldn't the brother be interested in seeing his mother again too?

[renatae]

I feel like Isaac definitely felt like his mother's parroting of the gospel according to Warren was going to draw him back in, or at least he felt he didn't have a comeback that he was confident in delivering. They've never shown anyone before getting subjected to that, and I imagine it's very hard to resist the "logic" of something you've had drilled into your mind since you were a toddler. It's too bad, but I hope he will be OK. Maybe he just needs to write her a letter. I'm not good at verbal gymnastics as everything I know departs me when most needed, but I'm great at expressing my convictions on paper.

He did meet up with his brother and lived with him for a time, as I recall, before going out on his own. It would be cool if they both see their mother again and get her out!

[renatae]

On 7/1/2018 at 2:41 PM, Evil Queen said:

This is something that has bugged me from the time we heard Jessica talk about how she got out with her sister. Considering it was over being physically abused, how do these courts allow for the other kids to stay in the homes of those that it ends up going that way? I take it this is why these parents don't keep the fight up over the ones that end up in court over it but if this was any of us in a life outside of this sick twisted group, child services would be at the door taking the others. So why not with them as well? Its something that bothers me so much because you know they just move to another one of the kids.

This bugs me to death as well. I just don't understand how they get away with keeping the other kids when they have others who have testified to the abuse and the guy is in jail because of it. Probably they have to assume all is OK because he is gone, and someone from inside would have to bring charges. It would be hard to get any of the other members to testify to the abuse. Also, the original girls were granted emancipation, instead of there having been a trial, so their experience is not enough to bring more charges. Upsets me a lot.

[renatae]

Actual new episode alert! (I think!)

The 7/30 episode with Chris and Amanda was very troubling. I really got the "user" vibe from Amanda, whose deal seemed more about getting the guy she wanted than conviction that the sect was evil. There was something very devious about her. She wouldn't look the girls in the eye, and her insistence that Chris "for sure" wanted to leave yet she hadn't told him her plans was odd.

When he came along and started spouting all that stuff about how Warren was perfect, I wanted to vomit. I didn't like his angry vibe either.

My guess is they are not really safe in Utah away from the group as someone apparently communicated. If so, why didn't Amanda answer the girls' calls or ever contact them? I think having some unknown person tell them this is suspicious. I feel it was Chris' intention all along to do what was necessary to get her back into the cult and that he was stringing her along with the ranch in Colorado idea. It's scary to think how they may be punishing her.

Edited August 2, 2018 by renatae

[Galloway Cave]

13 minutes ago, renatae said:

The 7/30 episode with Chris and Amanda was very troubling. I really got the "user" vibe from Amanda, whose deal seemed more about getting the guy she wanted than conviction that the sect was evil. There was something very devious about her. She wouldn't look the girls in the eye, and her insistence that Chris "for sure" wanted to leave yet she hadn't told him her plans was odd.

The whole episode was odd and so was the girl's reaction to Amanda. I can't remember who was THing toward the end, but she said something about how she hopes they can still make "their" dreams of a life in Colorado come true. It was Amanda's dream, not Chris's! He sat there in the car looking stone cold, spouting that fundy shit. He did every thing he could to shut the girls down, talking over them, snapping at them. And Amanda never said a word. THAT really was telling for me. Never said "Please don't speak that way to them, they are helping me, I asked them here." 

Once the girls find out that someone really doesn't want to leave (or in Chris's case, never did want to leave), they should immediately cut loose and go. They aren't going to change anyone's mind staying and talking. I know they felt guilty bringing Amanda to Chris, but she just used them for the airfare. Plygs are expert grifters and Amanda was just doing what came naturally. They shouldn't feel guilty or try to keep up with her.

[renatae]

5 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

They aren't going to change anyone's mind staying and talking. I know they felt guilty bringing Amanda to Chris, but she just used them for the airfare.

Yes, and it was a sad evening to watch all the way around, what with Lori deciding to go back and treating her daughter like she was somehow at fault. :headsmack:

[Evil Queen]

On 7/26/2018 at 8:28 AM, cajpgh said:

Just watched the episode with Issac finding his mother....it was pretty unsettling to see Issac's inability to truly break out of all the years of oppressive isolation and speak honestly to his mother..but i guess his "flight" away from her was a little hopeful that he wasn't ready to give back in  to the pull of the religious routine of obedience. I was struck by Issac's affect...never sure if he was acting or it was truly him struggling to figure out how to be his own person....i am never sure how "real" any of these shows are.

One question i had throughout ...what happened to his brother who reached out for the help to get him out originally...did he ever meet up with him and wouldn't the brother be interested in seeing his mother again too?

On 7/27/2018 at 3:34 PM, renatae said:

I feel like Isaac definitely felt like his mother's parroting of the gospel according to Warren was going to draw him back in, or at least he felt he didn't have a comeback that he was confident in delivering. They've never shown anyone before getting subjected to that, and I imagine it's very hard to resist the "logic" of something you've had drilled into your mind since you were a toddler. It's too bad, but I hope he will be OK. Maybe he just needs to write her a letter. I'm not good at verbal gymnastics as everything I know departs me when most needed, but I'm great at expressing my convictions on paper.

He did meet up with his brother and lived with him for a time, as I recall, before going out on his own. It would be cool if they both see their mother again and get her out!

I do think Isaac knew his limits on things and his gut told him to get away from her. As sad as it is his mother is so far gone that there is no pulling her away from that and getting her out. Her talking like she was to him with all her quotes and such said it all. I'm glad he got out of there as he did. She wasn't going to understand and how was he going to explain he left to someone with that kind of mindset? Its sad but at least he was able to see her...if even for a short time. As for his brother, maybe his brother has moved on when it comes to their mom. He may not have wanted to be a part of it. Which after seeing that I wouldn't blame him. And Isaac did see his brother when he left. Like Renatae said, he lived with him but he was able to get himself set up now so moved. I am glad Isaac is going to school and doing what he is to move on with his life. He obviously is still adjusting but seems to be doing well thanks to those that have helped him. 

 

On 7/27/2018 at 3:50 PM, renatae said:

This bugs me to death as well. I just don't understand how they get away with keeping the other kids when they have others who have testified to the abuse and the guy is in jail because of it. Probably they have to assume all is OK because he is gone, and someone from inside would have to bring charges. It would be hard to get any of the other members to testify to the abuse. Also, the original girls were granted emancipation, instead of there having been a trial, so their experience is not enough to bring more charges. Upsets me a lot.

With the original girls, I think it was said they were granted it because their parents didn't fight it. Which I can imagine they don't fight it to a certain point if it looks like child services or someone might come looking into their homes a bit more. So its easier to just give up on 1-2 kids then lose them all in their eyes. Either way it still does bug me when there is proof of the abuse. I wish the one had done her escape when she had the marks on her body. How could they turn a blind eye to NOT look into the home if one has marks on their body from a beating? 

16 hours ago, renatae said:

Actual new episode alert! (I think!)

The 7/30 episode with Chris and Amanda was very troubling. I really got the "user" vibe from Amanda, whose deal seemed more about getting the guy she wanted than conviction that the sect was evil. There was something very devious about her. She wouldn't look the girls in the eye, and her insistence that Chris "for sure" wanted to leave yet she hadn't told him her plans was odd.

When he came along and started spouting all that stuff about how Warren was perfect, I wanted to vomit. I didn't like his angry vibe either.

My guess is they are not really safe in Utah away from the group as someone apparently communicated. If so, why didn't Amanda answer the girls' calls or ever contact them? I think having some unknown person tell them this is suspicious. I feel it was Chris' intention all along to do what was necessary to get her back into the cult and that he was stringing her along with the ranch in Colorado idea. It's scary to think how they may be punishing her.

16 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

The whole episode was odd and so was the girl's reaction to Amanda. I can't remember who was THing toward the end, but she said something about how she hopes they can still make "their" dreams of a life in Colorado come true. It was Amanda's dream, not Chris's! He sat there in the car looking stone cold, spouting that fundy shit. He did every thing he could to shut the girls down, talking over them, snapping at them. And Amanda never said a word. THAT really was telling for me. Never said "Please don't speak that way to them, they are helping me, I asked them here." 

Once the girls find out that someone really doesn't want to leave (or in Chris's case, never did want to leave), they should immediately cut loose and go. They aren't going to change anyone's mind staying and talking. I know they felt guilty bringing Amanda to Chris, but she just used them for the airfare. Plygs are expert grifters and Amanda was just doing what came naturally. They shouldn't feel guilty or try to keep up with her.

Agree with you both. From the get go something didn't feel right about this at all. As things went on it was obvious more and more. Sadly its hard to really weed out these types I am sure. This isn't the first one we have seen like this. The one half sister did it as well because she wanted to marry a certain cousin (if I remember right) and she went to go with the one back to Seattle. It seems that whenever involves these girls wanting to be with the guy they want they use leaving or being out to get their little way about it. Its disturbing and disgusting because these girls are trying to help get others out of this horrible life only to have a few that end up using it to get what they want in the end and go back. I have to wonder how well they are treated after they go back. Can't be to nice I am sure. 

 

With the episodes that are repeating but are coming up new with the season, it was said when the show started that they were doing this because of those that might not have seen it before but many of us are obviously not happy that Lifetime decided to mess with it like this. I can't imagine the girls decided to have the show like this. When this show started it was on Lifetime btw, so I don't know why this is going on and they didn't just do a big marathon of the episodes leading up to it or after it started. Then take and create just a few episodes of updates on those they have helped in the past. It would have been a better way to do it IMO. The mix of old and new in one episode is just not ok when they could be giving us so much more on the new escape instead and how they are doing. 

[Galloway Cave]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Then take and create just a few episodes of updates on those they have helped in the past.

I wouldn't mind a half hour of a recap of their escape, to refresh our memories of what happened, then a half hour of how they are doing now. Even if they have gone back, show what it is like for them, if they can. Five seconds of the BSOJ just doesn't work for me.

[Court]

Her name was Megan. Amanda was one of the girls that was helping. 

 

Anyways, I agree with everyone else that Megan just wanted to be with Chris. She was willing to go back if she could be with him. She definitely wanted a free way up there.  It was so creepy when Chris was spouting off about how perfect Warren Jeffs is and how he just knows Jeffs will get out. 

[Galloway Cave]

15 hours ago, Court said:

Her name was Megan. Amanda was one of the girls that was helping. 

Gah, thanks. I can never remember anyone's name five minutes after the show airs.

It used to creep me out to listen to the various wives in the plyg town I lived in talking about their husband. Their voices would get all silky and soft, and they got that 1000 yard stare that Chris had when he was talking about "Father". Those people are deeply, deeply brainwashed.

[sixlets]

Did anyone else watch last night's episode?  Lorin really surprised me but in a good way.  I think he has a good chance of making it on the outside, and I hope he's able to live his new life in peace.  

I also liked the new security guy.  They all seem to care about the girls and their safety.  I'm wondering if they're former police officers.  Next week is the season finale, and from previews, it looks like a woman could be in danger.

[Galloway Cave]

19 minutes ago, sixlets said:

I'm wondering if they're former police officers.

Yes they are. I agree, it was a good episode. I wonder where he ended up parking his trucks. It had to be close by, rather than across the border in Utah. But the poor guy only has a third grade education. I hope he can get a GED and do well in life.

One thing I have noticed with some of these people who have been on the show or related to the show folks. They tend to stay in the Utah/Arizona area (except for the one girl who rescues and lives in Seattle and Kolleen in Las Vegas). If I were to escape from a religious cult, I would want to move as far away as possible. They know they can't see their family for at least a while. Might as well get established in a place that isn't full of other plygs or Mormons, then go back and help other family out if need be. 

[gesundheit]

My guess is culture shock -- since these people are saying goodbye to the only family and way of life they've ever known, a massive regional shift would just add to the paradigm shift and it's just too much for most of them.

[renatae]

I think Lorin will do well. He's pretty well spoken and he said he was responsible for repairing any thing that needed repair, and he's good with auto mechanics as well. I really had to respect that he went in front of the whole congregation to say he was leaving.

I must be a glutton for punishment for again watching the episode where Julie basically dictates to her mother and everyone else what should happen. I noticed at the end it stated Julie and her family were removed to a different place of "repentance" and then moved from there to another location after that, but it didn't say whether they were in or out of the cult in the latest place. Wonder how Julie feels knowing she is being acted against just like the others and if this new arbitrary justice has her thinking twice about the wisdom of the grand poobahs.

Edited August 16, 2018 by renatae

[Galloway Cave]

10 hours ago, renatae said:

I must be a glutton for punishment for again watching the episode where Julie basically dictates to her mother and everyone else what should happen.

Same here and I don't know how Matt and the girls (especially Kolleen) didn't just flat out tell that girl to knock it off. I know she was brainwashed to think the was God's Chosen one and she shits glitter, but once off the compound her mother was the decision maker and in control. That would have helped the mother feel more empowered to control the situation and make a better decision over their future, instead of going back. 

[lb60]

5 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

.....and she shits glitter.....

lol  So sparkly!!

Add me to the glutton for punishment list because I also watched again.

Edited August 16, 2018 by lb60

[Galloway Cave]

Last night's new episode was proof that Warren Jeffs needs to die an early death in prison. It is just amazing he still has such a grip on the members. MaryAnn's mother and sister were so deeply brainwashed and creepy. To watch the 86 year old grandmother be taken away for some random violation she allegedly did when she was young was horrible. And the sisters wouldn't even say goodbye to MaryAnn when she was standing there. What a horrible cult.

MaryAnn's father reminded me of Hyrum from the Centennial Park show. Probably related.

Warren's brother Lyle was a local leader when Warren went to jail, but then he was sent to jail for the food stamp fraud case. The mayor is an Allred (and the mayor in Hilldale is a non-FLDS woman!). I don't think there is anyone else as charismatic and hypnotizing in the cult that can take over as prophet and be as effective as Warren. Hopefully as more and more kids grow up and realize the religion is bonkers, more will break free of that sing-song voice that prohibits pineapple, potatoes and procreating.

[toodles]

26 minutes ago, Galloway Cave said:

Last night's new episode was proof that Warren Jeffs needs to die an early death in prison. It is just amazing he still has such a grip on the members. MaryAnn's mother and sister were so deeply brainwashed and creepy. To watch the 86 year old grandmother be taken away for some random violation she allegedly did when she was young was horrible.

 prohibits pineapple, potatoes and procreating.

There is a really special place in hell for Warren Jeffs.  I hope it's extra toasty.  Sending away an old lady?  EXTRA toasty.

I left the 4 Ps alone.  They just seem so odd together.

[kassa]

See link below, but multiple Kingston leaders (not Daniel from what I saw, but his sons/so the girls' brothers?) have been arrested in connection with Russian mob money laundering. This may tie in with the bank raid we saw a while back. Not sure how it will affect the show - these women have young families. This may be more than they need to publicly be taking on at present, especially if they are cooperating with law enforcement as former insiders.

Which brings me back to that scene where they had everybody in the group listed in charge on the wall, family by family, like cops do with mob families...

https://medium.com/@ninaandtito/a-511m-fuel-tax-credit-fraud-indictment-in-utah-connects-a-polygamous-mormon-cult-to-mike-flynn-402e1f7a0fb5

[Peper81]

Looks like a four-week event will be happening for this show starting on Monday, April 1.

[anniebird]

I was sure Carole would have been one to go home after a week so I was surprised to see she made it a year. And has a boyfriend! It was nice to see her cousin got out also. 

I had hoped that Warren Jeffs’ daughter would be an interesting addition to the cast but she doesn’t exactly have a sparkling personality does she?

[CindyBee]

I stumbled upon this show a few weeks ago and since then have been binge watching all the episodes on the LIfetime TV website.  

All the escapee stories touched me one way or the other (well except Jennifer who just wanted to marry her cousin and the Poly guy Jesse who I found creepy) that I'm glad there were updates now and then.  

One of my favorite escapees is Yolanda so was happy to see at the end of her sister Rosie's story that she was still going strong though it must have been terrifying when Rosie almost died from alcohol poisoning.  

And agree with those that wrote above that we need an update on Ava but I can see Jessica, Andrea, Shanell and the producers wanting to protect her since she's the first of her branch to have left the Kingston cult.   And I too wonder why Raymond Jeffs wasn't on Issac's second episode.   Maybe he wanted to go back to being anonymous.  

[Galloway Cave]

I like the new format better, where we see an update several months to a year later, at the end of each episode. I also enjoyed the Top Ten episode last week; their own updates showed how far they have come since leaving The Order.

[KBrownie]

1 hour ago, CindyBee said:

I stumbled upon this show a few weeks ago and since then have been binge watching all the episodes on the LIfetime TV website.  

All the escapee stories touched me one way or the other (well except Jennifer who just wanted to marry her cousin and the Poly guy Jesse who I found creepy) that I'm glad there were updates now and then.  

One of my favorite escapees is Yolanda so was happy to see at the end of her sister Rosie's story that she was still going strong though it must have been terrifying when Rosie almost died from alcohol poisoning.  

And agree with those that wrote above that we need an update on Ava but I can see Jessica, Andrea, Shanell and the producers wanting to protect her since she's the first of her branch to have left the Kingston cult.   And I too wonder why Raymond Jeffs wasn't on Issac's second episode.   Maybe he wanted to go back to being anonymous.  

The Top Ten escapes episode this past week did an update on Ava.  If I'm recalling correctly, she was expecting a baby and I think married to a man of her choosing.  

While I'm happy for Ava that she got out as you could tell she was absolutely terrified of her father and beat down emotionally and physically by his abuse, it's sort of disheartening how she, and some other of these young girls who get out of these cults end up pregnant and married, if not engaged, so soon after getting out.  For some of them it isn't even a year before they are married and pregnant.  I'm happy for them if that's their choice, but it would have been good for them to live  a little and see what else life on the outside had to offer before tying yourself down with a baby and a the first man you interact with.  It's like, wasn't that a big part of wanting to get out, to see what else the world had to offer?  I mean, they don't have to go to such extremes as Rosie, with the clubbing and alcohol, but there has to be a happy medium between that and Ethel who was engaged and pregnant from what looks like the first guy she had sex with less than a year after escaping.  

Of the most recent escapees, I like Yolanda's approach the best.  She's in school, and dating yes, but letting herself experience life as it comes.

The Kingstons must've really cracked down on anyone trying to get out and away from them.  Almost all of the recent escapes have been from the FLDS.

[Misslindsey]

Not necessarily about the show, but sort of show adjacent I stumbled across a preview for the CBS show Whistleblower. It is about a woman named Mary who was a part of the Kingston family who, with her husband, were whistleblowers in trying to take down the Kingston clan.

[sigmaforce86]

Whistleblower was on last night - what I thought was interesting was how it meshed with what we've seen on Escaping Polygamy.  I always thought that like all "reality" shows the things we saw on Escaping were inflated or re-enacted, and maybe they still are at times but......They showed the raids on the Kingston businesses and twice I saw Jessica, Andrea and Shanell there watching; it was from the back but very obviously them.  They also heavily covered Washakie and what goes on there which I remember really affected one of the girls (I think it was Jessica?) when they went back, again the work done there talked about on Whistleblower matched with what Jessica said was her experience.  The living conditions of their Mom and the pictures they showed last night of homes owned by Kingston families, some of which looked even worse than the Mom's home if that's possible.    And the banks, I remember the episode where the tried to get an escaped girls settlement money and, like that girl, Mary the Whistleblower last night had $17,000 in a Kingston bank that she was denied when she left.

It did make me wonder who the anonymous source in the clan that was featured on Escaping is.  Is that person real and still in the cult, still collecting evidence, are they out now that the arrests took place and the trial is this summer?  Did Mary the real Whistleblower know the person?  The whole thing was really interesting, I feel sorry for Mary having to testify and have no doubt the Kingston lawyers will try to paint her as some disgruntled former member mad at her family and money hungry (she gets a cut of what the government recovers if the clan is found guilty) but I also thought it was really interesting how her experience and evidence actually made the Escaping Polygamy team that much more credible.  I'd really like to know what they thought of the episode.  Also if I have the family relations right the whistleblower girl Mary is probably a first or second cousin of the Escaping team.  

Edited June 1, 2019 by sigmaforce86

[toodles]

I saw a really interesting episode on American Greed all about Lyle and Warren Jeffs.  I'm case you're unfamiliar with the show, it's on CNBC.

I won't go into detail, but it's about how the FBI caught the scum brothers.  It's also about the bravery of the Short Creek people who said enough is enough.  It's really uplifting at the end.

I have direct TV and it's in on demand.  It's worth your time.

ETA:  the episode is called Prophets and Cults, I think.  Or Prophets and Greed.  I just watched it and I already forgot the title.  Lol.

Edited September 10, 2019 by toodles

[JenMcSnark]

On 9/10/2019 at 3:40 PM, toodles said:

I saw a really interesting episode on American Greed all about Lyle and Warren Jeffs.  I'm case you're unfamiliar with the show, it's on CNBC.

I won't go into detail, but it's about how the FBI caught the scum brothers.  It's also about the bravery of the Short Creek people who said enough is enough.  It's really uplifting at the end.

I have direct TV and it's in on demand.  It's worth your time.

ETA:  the episode is called Prophets and Cults, I think.  Or Prophets and Greed.  I just watched it and I already forgot the title.  Lol.

I also recently saw an episode of Evil Lives Here that featured a couple of Warren's half brothers and talk about him at an early age and how he was raised to be an entitled,evil person.  

[Kuntrygal]

I thought these episodes were real life situations... Now I'm starting to wonder. The episode where they rescued Isaac, when they packed all his stuff up in their red/maroon vehicle, the back was full. As it showed them driving down the road with him, all that was in the vehicle, was one black trash bag. So I'm now a little confused about the show.