S06.E09: Battle Of The Bastards

[RedHawk]

I imagined Shireen holding the stag close as the fire rose and then tossing it away rather than having it burn with her. 

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Drogo said:

I think so.  He seemed to have a moment during the Ramsay beatdown when he realized it should be Sansa who passes the sentence and swings the sword.

Oh, I definitely think he stopped because he knew/felt that Sansa should be the one to end Ramsey. I was more wondering on the manor of death. Did Jon think Sansa would order a beheading or hanging?  Or did he realize that Sansa was going to use Ramsey's own vile ways against him?   It's just something i found interesting.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[minirth]

GoT in a nutshell: even when you see the death coming, it guts you -- and there's always an extra touch of nasty.  Poor poor Rickon -- it looked to me that he was wearing (not at all by choice) Shaggydog's pelt.

I couldn't help but mutter "What is dead can never die" when Jon was crushed under the weight of the bodies -- I'm not sure he can die now.  

The only thing keeping me sane is the continued existence of Davos and Tormund -- bless his bearded, Brienne-lusting soul!  I thought Tomund was done for!  

Edited June 20, 2016 by minirth

[RedHawk]

I really wonder where Jon Snow's character is going from here. He's back from the dead and somewhat invincible. He's helped re-take Winterfell but Sansa is the true leader in the North now. It will be interesting to see how he develops going forward, if he's learned anything from this near-debacle.

[HumblePi]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh, I definitely think he stopped because he knew/felt that Sansa should be the one to end Ramsey. I was more wondering on the manor of death. Did Jon think Sansa would order a beheading or hanging?  Or did he realize that Sansa was going to use Ramsey's own vile ways against him?   It's just something i found interesting.

It did occur to me as Jon was beating Ramsey and violently plummeting his fists into Ramsey's face that his jaw would be shattered, he'd have no teeth or eye socket left and it would most likely have caused his death. I know that Jon left him alive for Sansa to deal with in her own way, he owed her that much gratification. But really, he wouldn't have survived that intense fist thrashing and still be able to speak. In that respect, I feel that the director just took it a bit too far with the fist beating, but they knew that fans would cheer and want more because Ramsey was such a reviled character.

[DarkRaichu]

9 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I imagined Shireen holding the stag close as the fire rose and then tossing it away rather than having it burn with her. 

For a split second I had a thought of checking that scene.  However, out of every scene in GoT, Shireen's end is the one I can never bring myself to re-watch :(

Just now, RedHawk said:

I really wonder where Jon Snow's character is going from here. He's back from the dead and somewhat invincible. He's helped re-take Winterfell but Sansa is the true leader in the North now. It will be interesting to see how he develops going forward, if he's learned anything from this near-debacle.

My money is on him traveling south to get reinforcements against winter that is cummin'

[RedHawk]

I guess Wun-Wun was indeed The Last of the Giants, so it was heart-breaking to see him fall after his magnificent battle. Would have been great to see the funeral honors they gave him. 

Because I'd just seen that tragic end of a great character, it made Jon's advance on Ramsay even more thrilling. I haven't cared much about Jon Snow lately, but seeing him charge right into the sadistic bastard's arrows was awesome. The gradual dawning realization on Ramsay's face was great as well. 

[HumblePi]

2 minutes ago, minirth said:

GoT in a nutshell: even when you see the death coming, it guts you -- and there's always an extra touch of nasty.  Poor poor Rickon -- it looked to me that he was wearing (not at all by choice) Shaggydog's pelt.. 

I think that the directors were aware that Rickon would be sacrificed and intentionally kept his character repressed. He was never developed as a character for that reason, people would have been angered at the death of the youngest and weakest Stark if we had been given more attachment to his character personally.

[MissLulu]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

  Or did he realize that Sansa was going to use Ramsey's own vile ways against him?   It's just something i found interesting.

They would have to know, who do you think put him in the kennel and told her the dogs had not eaten in 7 days? When Ramsey announced that at the meeting the day before after she had galloped off. She asked Jon "where is he" then the next thing we see is where he is, in the kennels. They (Jon and his crew) set it up for her and yes, possibly at her request, then let have her final say. 

From the previews for next week it looks like Sanza and Jon will have a conversation about how or when the Vale showed up... this portion is not finished yet. And whether it was calculated on Sanza's part or not. I have much respect for her outwitting Ramsey at whatever cost. Had Jon done the same, I don't think most would have had issue with it. As a few others mentioned, had it not happened that way, they all may have died. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by MissLulu

[RedHawk]

4 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

For a split second I had a thought of checking that scene.  However, out of every scene in GoT, Shireen's end is the one I can never bring myself to re-watch :(

My money is on him traveling south to get reinforcements against winter that is cummin'

Oh no, I won't ever watch that scene again either! 

What about Riverrun? What's going to happen once Brienne returns and tells Jon, Sansa, and Littlefinger what happened there? If I were Sansa I'd leave weak Uncle Edmure to rot there. She has other fish to fry -- ha!

[Dobian]

29 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

Ramsey's death by dog doesn't make Sansa anymore cold and sadistic that it did Jon almost beating him to death. It bothers me that we cheer when men kill the bad guy but when a woman does it (mind you a bad guy that raped and brutalized her, who sent the very dogs who killed him to kill her, and who'd just killed her little brother), she's disturbed/gone dark/changed and other such things. 

Correct, she isn't dark and disturbed, she is simply RUTHLESS.  And that is a good thing.  You have to be ruthless if you want to rule any part of Westeros.  This character has grown from a sad damsel in distress into a true leader.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dobian

[MsChipper]

Yeah, I just had to screen cap the awesomeness of Lady Bear giving Ramsey that look.

Edited June 20, 2016 by MsChipper

[proserpina65]

As a devotee of medieval history, and medieval warfare in particular, this episode captured the absolute fucking brutality of it brilliantly.  That battle was like nothing I've ever seen on tv, or, quite frankly, the movie screen.  (Braveheart's battles are the only ones which come close, in a brutality sense.)  This was by far the best episode of season six, and possibly the best of the entire series.  Can Miguel Sapochnik just direct every episode from now until the end of the series?

[Oscirus]

Quote

Kit Harrington said that Jon stopped beating Ramsay because he knew it should be Sansa who was allowed to kill Ramsay. 

So basically, fan service, since that's not the way that Jon thinks or acts.

Quote

Ramsey's death by dog doesn't make Sansa anymore cold and sadistic that it did Jon almost beating him to death. It bothers me that we cheer when men kill the bad guy but when a woman does it (mind you a bad guy that raped and brutalized her, who sent the very dogs who killed him to kill her, and who'd just killed her little brother), she's disturbed/gone dark/changed and other such things. 

Let's not turn this into a man woman thing.  What Jon did was heat of the moment. Sansa actually had time to think about what she was doing and enjoyed watching him suffer. That's not to say that Ramsey didn't deserve it, just that it was a very cold and sadistic act.

[Constantinople]

33 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

I know from my limited knowledge of the Salem, Mass. witch burnings that a witch can be burned at the stake

The people convicted of witchcraft during the Salem Witch Trials were hanged, not burned.

[hks]

As is everyone else, I was trying to figure out why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Vale army before the battle began.  Either, she didn't trust Jon, or thought it was better strategy to keep the army a secret, OR had no idea if they'd actually show up:

14 hours ago, Advance35 said:

She told him they needed more men and he wouldn't wait.  Jon and Sansa were expecting The Blackfish and before Brienne even learned of the siege of Riverrunn Jon was all "We fight with the army we have."  He wasn't waiting.   And I don't think Sansa was sure LF would come until she met up with him wherever.

If Sansa had told Jon about LF's control of the Vale army and his willingness to help them, would Jon have waited?  I'm not sure he would have.  I don't think he would have been willing to wait on the chance (as he see's it) that LF would show up.  I think his unwillingness to go and court "House Cerwyn" show's that.

6 hours ago, Geneve138 said:

I'm choosing to view Sansa keeping the Vale army a secret from Jon as pure strategy. If John had known, he would have incorporated them in his battle plan and lost the element of surprise. I think Sansa knew that to beat Ramsay, she had to outsmart him and to do that she had to keep Jon in the dark. She needed Jon to behave as he would if he were fighting without reinforcements (which he did, since he didn't know there were any) to ensure Ramsay believed he had won before swooping in and taking him down. I don't think the secret was a lack of trust in Jon as a person, I think it was a necessity in order to outplay Ramsay.

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

As I understand it, she didn't KNOW the Vale was coming. There was a possibility that Littlefinger would help but, no guarantees 

I think it might have been a combination of 1 and 3. She didn't fully trust Jon AND she didn't know for sure that LF was coming.

ORRRR....

57 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Like I said before, I think that the writers just had Sansa stay silent to ramp up the drama when all hope appeared to be lost for Jon because it makes no sense for her to stay quiet. People are just trying to rationalize that plot device.

That makes sense too. :)

Also, I know the battle was the big highlight, and also Dany using the dragons, but this might have been my favorite part of the episode:

10 hours ago, rozen said:

I love Grey Worm's smug face when the 2 Masters threw the low-born one under the bus. It was exactly what he wanted, wasn't it? 

Just. Him slicing both necks with one motion. I gasped, then clapped. Some of the other parts of the episode were too gory for me, but that part felt like poetry. 

[MsChipper]

I just saw the trailer for the next epi and it showed Jon telling Sansa that they needed to trust each other now because she's gonna have so many enemies....So I'm guessing he'll be confronting her about the withholding of LF info....Which I don't blame him, really.

And then it shows him kissing her head, and I'm reminded of someone upthread who had that thought about shipping Jon and Sansa? LOL.Well, that scene probably isn't going to help you move past that notion.

Edited June 20, 2016 by MsChipper

[Constantinople]

People are overlooking how romantic last night's episode was.

Myranda and Ramsay are now reunited in the afterlife...

 

            ...as dog shit.

 

I could almost shed a tear.

[HumblePi]

24 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

The people convicted of witchcraft during the Salem Witch Trials were hanged, not burned.

I believe we both may be correct.

"Many of these victims were hanged or beheaded first, but their bodies were typically incinerated afterwards to protect against postmortem sorcery. Other condemned witches were still alive when they faced the flames, and were left to endure an excruciating death by burning and inhalation of toxic fumes." http://www.history.com/news/ask-history/were-witches-burned-at-the-stake-during-the-salem-witch-trials

[Lady S.]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I have a feeling it was done for dramatic effect, but the dogs took their own sweet time attacking Ramsay, especially if they hadn't eaten in a week.  I mean I used to have a tom cat who would run into the kitchen if he heard the cutting board come down and knew he was going to get turkey.  Besides, Ramsay was probably mean to those dogs.

Yes, those dogs had good dramatic timing. Very considerate of them to wait until Sansa was done talking before chowing down.

I'm disappointed that Varys's departure to parts unknown meant we were deprived of seeing him with Grey Worm and Theon, all the eunuchs on the show together on Team Dany.

If Tyrion was trying to make a point about Theon's trustworthiness, he could have started with Theon's actual crimes at Winterfell rather than any dwarf jokes he made. I really don't see how that would be relevant to whether Dany should ally with the Greyjoys.

[Mathius]

Now, while whether Sansa should have told Jon or why she didn't can be debated, I must put my foot down when people somehow act as if her telling Jon would have made a huge impact and spared the lives of most of those who died.  HUH?  If she had told him and he was aware of it, it would not have changed a damn thing because he still would have flipped his lid when Rickon died and had his army charge the Boltons like a damn fool.  Personally, if there was any difference in how he did things because he knew, I think Ramsay would have been tipped off and found a way to counter it.   IMO, Jon not knowing was the best course to take, since that way Ramsay wouldn't know either.  And even IF her not telling him somehow DID lead to all those people's deaths, it also led to victory, and in this world sometimes lives have to be sacrificed for that.

Sansa's not trying to be a "good guy", she's trying to be a survivor.  She's avoiding the mistake most of her family has made.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Mathius

[proserpina65]

Quote

Another thing I loved was that Theon was very straightforward in supporting his sister's claim to the Iron Throne and said he wasn't fit to be king. Although I believe that Yara intends to keep her word (no more raping and pillaging), I don't think that her subjects will take the news very well. I can already see them grumbling, "Well, what are we supposed to do with all our spare time now?"

OMG, they might have to SOW!!

[proserpina65]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

My main concern for Sansa is how long before word gets out that she and Jon have taken back Winterfell and then how long before Cersei, Tommen, or the High Sparrow sends the Kingsguard to arrest her for Joffrey's murder?

Cersei and the High Sparrow have other things to worry about and Tommen has no standing army (Jaime has the Lannister army in the Riverlands, and do you really think the Tyrell army would help?), so even if/when he cares, he can't do much about it.

[Moon Martini]

This is for the ladies...Yara, Dany, and Sansa.  

RIP Wun Wun. I'll miss you, you glorious giant. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Moon Martini

[LittleIggy]

My name is Lord Baelish, and I loved this episode!

[terrymct]

"There's no indication that Brienne's raven stating her failure has even reached them yet." Jon did say specifically that the Blackfish and the Tully army weren't coming.

[dramachick]

I don't see Sansa as being smarter than Jon, and at this point I don't see the north or anybody else following her anywhere unless she's got Jon by her side. Like Varys said, power resides where men think it resides.  Ramsey was talking shit, but he was scared of Jon underneath the crazy. He said he'd heard that Jon could walk on water, so the word is out that Jon Snow is Somebody. Just like Grey Worm told that surviving master to go tell his friends what he witnessed of Danerys and her dragons, survivors of the Batttle of the Bastards will tell others what they witnessed when Jon Snow stood his ground and faced the onslaught of charging soldiers on horseback.  That is the stuff of which legends are made.

It'll be interesting to see how it ends for Littlefinger because I don't see a role for him in the story going forward. Neither Jon, nor the Vale army needs him, and quite frankly, it only makes sense for him to be taken out surreptitiously by the lords of the Vale just as it should have been done to Ramsey by the northern lords. I suspend disbelief for a lot of contrivances that I chalk up to the fantasy genre, but I believe that human emotions and actions should be honest and organic.

Sansa was right about Ramsey because she had lived with him, which is the same reason she has insight into Littlefinger, who is sexually attracted to her when he doesn't need to use her for something else. Otherwise, she's not good at reading people as we saw in her interactions with Mormount and Glover, and her condescending attitude towards Davos. It's understandable because she sees everything through the prism of her own experience, which does not include working with others to achieve desired goals. She wasn't raised to lead, and it doesn't come naturally to her. She's like Danerys in some ways, but Danerys now has Tyrion to help her.

But it doesn't matter because its not about Sansa. 

It's about Tyrion, Danerys and Jon.

[annsterg]

1 hour ago, Constantinople said:

People are overlooking how romantic last night's episode was.

Myranda and Ramsay are now reunited in the afterlife...

 

            ...as dog shit.

 

I could almost shed a tear.

I would kill all those hounds after Ramsay's death. They are monsters.

I love the dragons so so very much. The dragonback battle scenes are what I have been waiting for all these years. And they are the PERFECT weapon against the Army of the Dead. Dying to know who -- if anyone -- will get to ride the other 2 dragons. Wow, are they ever are stunted by their incarceration. Hope they get a big growth spurt with all the fresh air and exercise.

I have not read any of the books except part of 1 (will read when the series is done) so I know so much of the detail I want to know may be there but....

So...seems like there are a whole lot of great houses that have bitten the dust. It is interesting to think about who or how will fill those vacuums: is the entire Martel family gone in Dorne? Are there any Baratheons left? Any Bolton cousins? I think Tormund should get the Dreadfort for his own, and the remaining wildlings can settle there too. Are there any Umbers or Karstarks left? Are the Starks going to allow a cousin to inherit or will they go all Reynes of Castamere on those houses and grant those lands to others?

The Red Woman can't die until she encounters Arya again.

[RCharter]

25 minutes ago, dramachick said:

I don't see Sansa as being smarter than Jon, and at this point I don't see the north or anybody else following her anywhere unless she's got Jon by her side. Like Varys said, power resides where men think it resides.  Ramsey was talking shit, but he was scared of Jon underneath the crazy. He said he'd heard that Jon could walk on water, so the word is out that Jon Snow is Somebody. Just like Grey Worm told that surviving master to go tell his friends what he witnessed of Danerys and her dragons, survivors of the Batttle of the Bastards will tell others what they witnessed when Jon Snow stood his ground and faced the onslaught of charging soldiers on horseback.  That is the stuff of which legends are made.

It'll be interesting to see how it ends for Littlefinger because I don't see a role for him in the story going forward. Neither Jon, nor the Vale army needs him, and quite frankly, it only makes sense for him to be taken out surreptitiously by the lords of the Vale just as it should have been done to Ramsey by the northern lords. I suspend disbelief for a lot of contrivances that I chalk up to the fantasy genre, but I believe that human emotions and actions should be honest and organic.

Sansa was right about Ramsey because she had lived with him, which is the same reason she has insight into Littlefinger, who is sexually attracted to her when he doesn't need to use her for something else. Otherwise, she's not good at reading people as we saw in her interactions with Mormount and Glover, and her condescending attitude towards Davos. It's understandable because she sees everything through the prism of her own experience, which does not include working with others to achieve desired goals. She wasn't raised to lead, and it doesn't come naturally to her. She's like Danerys in some ways, but Danerys now has Tyrion to help her.

But it doesn't matter because its not about Sansa. 

It's about Tyrion, Danerys and Jon.

I don't think smarter is the word.  I think Sansa is more cunning and more strategic than Jon.  And I think she has always been that way, Arya was more like a battle axe to get what she wanted and Sansa was more like a velvet glove.  However, she now has an iron fist in her velvet glove.  

I think the North still remembers and will want to follow another Stark, especially once that got rid of Ramsay.  It also seems like the people of the North don't have a problem following the adorable Lady Bear, so I don't know that they have an issue with women leaders.  I think Ramsay was scared of taking anyone on in one-on-one combat.  Especially someone that has been fighting at the Wall.  Ramsay was basically a coward -- he fought people who had no power, servants and peasants, and Sansa when she couldn't leave him, Ramsay wants to have his dogs do the killing, and shoot an arrow.  I don't think he would have wanted to do a one on one fight with anyone.

And honestly, I don't think Jon wants particularly wants Winterfell.  I think he knows that he needs to fight the WightWalkers, and ultimately his home may be with the wildlings beyond the Wall.  That is where he was his happiest.  Winterfell is his home, but he was never "good enough" for Winterfell.

I do think the North will have a problem with LittleFinger.  And I think he likely arranged some sort of marriage to Sansa in exchange for the Arryn Army.

But I also think LF has a lot of power.  He still pretty much rules the Vale, since Lord Robin relies on him.  He will certainly have exchanged something for his help in this battle.  And I think Sansa was so desperate to get her home back she would have promised him anything.  So, I think he has a role in both Winterfell and the Vale.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by RCharter

[Moon Martini]

4 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I don't think smarter is the word.  I think Sansa is more cunning and more strategic than Jon.  And I think she has always been that way, Arya was more like a battle axe to get what she wanted and Sansa was more like a velvet glove.  However, she now has an iron fist in her velvet glove.  

I think the North still remembers and will want to follow another Stark, especially once that got rid of Ramsay.  It also seems like the people of the North don't have a problem following the adorable Lady Bear, so I don't know that they have an issue with women leaders.  I think Ramsay was scared of taking anyone on in one-on-one combat.  Especially someone that has been fighting at the Wall.  Ramsay was basically a coward -- he fought people who had no power, servants and peasants, and Sansa when she couldn't leave him, Ramsay wants to have his dogs do the killing, and shoot an arrow.  I don't think he would have wanted to do a one on one fight with anyone.

And honestly, I don't think Jon wants particularly wants Winterfell.  I think he knows that he needs to fight the WightWalkers, and ultimately his home may be with the wildlings beyond the Wall.  That is where he was his happiest.  Winterfell is his home, but he was never "good enough" for Winterfell.

I do think the North will have a problem with LittleFinger.  And I think he likely arranged some sort of marriage to Sansa in exchange for the Arryn Army.

But I also think LF has a lot of power.  He still pretty much rules the Vale, since Lord Robin relies on him.  He will certainly have exchanged something for his help in this battle.  And I think Sansa was so desperate to get her home back she would have promised him anything.

Littlefinger was practically jizzing himself when he was next to Sansa on the battlefield. He gonna be owned big time, and he knows this. 

[dramachick]

Perfect shot.

[DarkRaichu]

1 minute ago, dramachick said:

Perfect shot.

All real (no green screen) per 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

even though we didn't see what was happening, we heard it.

Just like Ramsay and Sansa's horrific wedding night.

[Cynna]

7 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I hope that Sansa tells Jon the truth about Littlefinger, the whole truth, including the truth about him poisoning Joffrey.

Whawhawhat? I thought that was Olenna Tyrell?

5 hours ago, ToniG said:

Right before running, it looked as though Rickon was attempting to warg. 

I missed this! I plan to rewatch today, so I'll look for it, thanks for pointing it out!

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Part of me understands Sansa's frustration but the 2016 in me is like girl, if you want to be heard, then SPEAK UP. No one else in that battle meeting was waiting for Jon to say, "Would you be so kind as to tell me your thoughts on the matter?" And when she flat out told him that Jon should listen to her because she knew Ramsay better than anyone else, she then didn't give any specific details that would help him. He was ready to listen but she got all soap opera and wouldn't tell him anything that would help him plan. Her generic statements about how Ramsay likes to hurt people and he likes to lure people into traps. No shit, that's what happens in battle. People get hurt. "You don't know him" isn't really strategic advice.

 

3 hours ago, Bean421 said:

 Jon didn't listen because you didn't tell him this was a possibility. He asked for another way and you just sat there like, "I don't know anything about battle I just know you're wrong."

Both of these ^^. From the very first episodes, Sansa acted like an entitled princess: selfish as hell, foot stompy and pouty. I've disliked her a lot until last season. Seeing her lie to Jon (loved Brienne calling her out for it), and then last night avoid telling him about the other army while getting huffy that he couldn't read her mind - it's early Sansa all over again.  :(

[SimoneS]

Just now, Cynna said:

Whawhawhat? I thought that was Olenna Tyrell?

It was Olenna and Littlefinger conspiring together. 

[dramachick]

28 minutes ago, RCharter said:

But I also think LF has a lot of power.  He still pretty much rules the Vale, since Lord Robin relies on him.  He will certainly have exchanged something for his help in this battle.  And I think Sansa was so desperate to get her home back she would have promised him anything.  So, I think he has a role in both Winterfell and the Vale.  

Littlefinger owed Sansa.  They are now even.

If Littlefinger dies, Robin will rely on Lord Royce. 

[RedHawk]

32 minutes ago, annsterg said:

I would kill all those hounds after Ramsay's death. They are monsters.

I love the dragons so so very much. The dragonback battle scenes are what I have been waiting for all these years. And they are the PERFECT weapon against the Army of the Dead. Dying to know who -- if anyone -- will get to ride the other 2 dragons. Wow, are they ever are stunted by their incarceration. Hope they get a big growth spurt with all the fresh air and exercise.

I have not read any of the books except part of 1 (will read when the series is done) so I know so much of the detail I want to know may be there but....

So...seems like there are a whole lot of great houses that have bitten the dust. It is interesting to think about who or how will fill those vacuums: is the entire Martel family gone in Dorne? Are there any Baratheons left? Any Bolton cousins? I think Tormund should get the Dreadfort for his own, and the remaining wildlings can settle there too. Are there any Umbers or Karstarks left? Are the Starks going to allow a cousin to inherit or will they go all Reynes of Castamere on those houses and grant those lands to others?

The Red Woman can't die until she encounters Arya again.

Eh, Arya can't have all the kills on her list. I say feed the Red Woman to those monster dogs as their last meal.

[Cynna]

11 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

It was Olenna and Littlefinger conspiring together. 

I'd either missed or forgotten that - thanks!

@DarkRaichu - great clips, love the info on the battle filming. I do hope they get Rheon some counselling, that haunted look on his face at 10:04 is no good. :/ 

[nitrofishblue]

I loved this episode!! I admit that had my hands over my eyes for most of the battle. That was rather harsh and it was hard to tell who was going to survive. Jon climbing his way out of the body pile was awesome. So sad that Rikon got used for target practice by Ramsey. I kept yelling at the tv for him to run zig-zag =(   Hard to watch. Then I so wanted Sansa to kill Ramsey herself out in the field. It turns out that by waiting I got a sense of revenge. Loved the way that the dog sniffed over Ramsey's face before taking a big gulp. The look of satisfaction on Sansa's face was PERFECT!!!!!!!

Since Sansa was Ramsey's legal wife won't she gain control of whatever lands he owned??

[RCharter]

4 minutes ago, dramachick said:

Littlefinger owed Sansa.  They are now even.

If Littlefinger dies, Robin will rely on Lord Royce. 

I don't think thats how Littlefinger will see it at all.  And I also don't see Littlefinger as the sort who is so honor bound that he wouldn't demand something in advance for his army.  Especially since he would know just how desperate Sansa was for his help.  I think thats just who LF is....he is that guy that doesn't see the world in terms of honor or owing a debt or whatever.  He sees an opportunity as golden as Sansa needing his help and he seizes it.  

IF Littlefinger dies, but Littlefinger is cunning, manipulative, strategic and has no problem spilling blood.  He almost had Robin put someone through the Moon Window for even daring to question his authority.  I think Littlefinger is smart enough to keep Robin as close to him as possible, and as he grows to make Robin more and more dependent on him and distrustful of anyone else.  I think he will isolate Robin more and more and teach him to rely only on LF, because its only LF that is looking out for his best interests after all.

[annsterg]

6 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Eh, Arya can't have all the kills on her list. I say feed the Red Woman to those monster dogs as their last meal.

I am going by what Mel said when she and Arya spoke (when the BoB was selling Gendry to her) -- that she and Arya would meet again. Now we all know that sometimes the Red Woman's mojo is ...flawed but I think she spoke truly this time. So...not saying Arya is the one to kill her, only that anyone killing her has to wait until Arya sees her again.

I want Arya to kill all the Freys...or at least Walder. Bonus if she tells him who she is before delivering the coup de grace. Double bonus if she gets to kill some of his family in front of him first.

[RedHawk]

12 minutes ago, nitrofishblue said:

I loved this episode!! I admit that had my hands over my eyes for most of the battle. That was rather harsh and it was hard to tell who was going to survive. Jon climbing his way out of the body pile was awesome. So sad that Rikon got used for target practice by Ramsey. I kept yelling at the tv for him to run zig-zag =(   Hard to watch. Then I so wanted Sansa to kill Ramsey herself out in the field. It turns out that by waiting I got a sense of revenge. Loved the way that the dog sniffed over Ramsey's face before taking a big gulp. The look of satisfaction on Sansa's face was PERFECT!!!!!!!

Since Sansa was Ramsey's legal wife won't she gain control of whatever lands he owned??

Hmmm... interesting point. Ramsay made sure he was his father's only heir, and his father made him the heir because there was no other legitimate heir available. Sansa Stark Lannister Bolton wins again! 

Except now she owes Littlefinger. Perhaps he'll take those lands as his reward and f*&% right off.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RedHawk

[RedHawk]

The one reunion I most want to see likely won't happen until well into next season, but I can't wait for Tyrion and Sansa to have a quiet chat to catch up on all that's happened with them since their "separation". "Hello, wife, how's the world been treating you? Married again, eh? No, no, everyone thought I was dead, or a traitor, or a dead traitor. Widowed after a major battle, and fed your sadistic husband to his own dogs? Wonderful! Remind me, dear, never to get on your bad side." 

Edited June 20, 2016 by RedHawk

[HumblePi]

39 minutes ago, Cynna said:

Whawhawhat? I thought that was Olenna Tyrell?

I missed this! I plan to rewatch today, so I'll look for it, thanks for pointing it out!

 

Both of these ^^. From the very first episodes, Sansa acted like an entitled princess: selfish as hell, foot stompy and pouty. I've disliked her a lot until last season. Seeing her lie to Jon (loved Brienne calling her out for it), and then last night avoid telling him about the other army while getting huffy that he couldn't read her mind - it's early Sansa all over again.  :(

Sansa has been like a pimple since the first season. She's been annoying and well... dumb as dirt. She's the one that wanted to marry a King, even though it was sick puppy Joffrey. It was okay with her that he was cruel to others and even when he chopped off her father's head she was pretty okay with that too since she didn't have the guts to leave on her own. Knowing her aunt got pushed down the moon hole and still doing nothing but put on a pout was way beyond my tolerance of her. Her sad and desperately weepy eyed closeups made me want to slap her around a little. Okay, in my mind only, I'm non-violent. But still....maybe

So now that she has developed a little bit of brain matter and shuts her mouth except to speak a few words of sense, I like her a little bit now. As long as she doesn't get carried away with her own self-importance.

Edited June 20, 2016 by HumblePi

[dramachick]

21 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I don't think thats how Littlefinger will see it at all.  And I also don't see Littlefinger as the sort who is so honor bound that he wouldn't demand something in advance for his army.  Especially since he would know just how desperate Sansa was for his help.  I think thats just who LF is....he is that guy that doesn't see the world in terms of honor or owing a debt or whatever.  He sees an opportunity as golden as Sansa needing his help and he seizes it.  

IF Littlefinger dies, but Littlefinger is cunning, manipulative, strategic and has no problem spilling blood.  He almost had Robin put someone through the Moon Window for even daring to question his authority.  I think Littlefinger is smart enough to keep Robin as close to him as possible, and as he grows to make Robin more and more dependent on him and distrustful of anyone else.  I think he will isolate Robin more and more and teach him to rely only on LF, because its only LF that is looking out for his best interests after all.

It doesn't matter how Littlefinger sees it.  They're in the north.  He can't make Sansa do anything.

She's Lady Stark at home in Winterfell with her brother.

She's Lady Bolton of the Dreadfort.

Lord Robin Arryn is Sansa's kin just like the Blackfish, so he was just as duty bound to help Sansa as their uncle was.

Sansa doesn't have to do shit for Littlefinger. 

Anything otherwise is pure contrivance.

Edited June 20, 2016 by dramachick

[RCharter]

5 minutes ago, dramachick said:

It doesn't matter how Littlefinger sees it.  They're in the north.  He can't make Sansa do anything.

She's Lady Stark at home in Winterfell with her brother.

She's Lady Bolton of the Dreadfort.

Sansa doesn't have to do shit for Littlefinger. 

Anything otherwise is pure contrivance.

For one, he could have already had Sansa do something.  If he married her he could have had a quickie ceremony before they rode out.  For that matter he could have had her sign any document promising whatever before they rode out.

If she already did something for Littlefinger than its already done.  

Not to mention that right now Littlefinger has an army much, much, much larger than the one that Sansa has.  

Does she have all the men that Ramsay had?  At best...thats debatable, and depends upon whether there is some distant Bolton relative that can make a claim.  Does she have all the houses of the North?  Not right now, because there are still some of the homes that distrust the Starks.  

 She has a lot fewer men than Littlefinger has at his control.  Not to mention that the wildlings were just into fighting this one fight -- so the are pretty much lost to her now.  They came to fight for Jon Snow, and so that Ramsay couldn't get to them.  They aren't about to get involved in what they would consider -- some petty land argument, when they don't even really believe in land ownership.  

So really, how many men does she have to fight against Littlefinger's army? An army of men that can enforce whatever agreement Sansa and Littlefinger came to.

So yeah.....just logically, if Sansa promised Littlefinger something, she may have to do shit for him.

Edited June 20, 2016 by RCharter

[arjumand]

3 hours ago, ElleMo said:

A large number of them deserted overnight after Shireen was burned at the stake. They probably returned home as fast as they could and along the way would stay away from people as much as possible simply because they would be slaughtered by any Lannister soldiers they ran into

 

It struck me that there's a reason Davos had to find out about Shireen during this episode in particular, rather than at any point in season 6: because the audience had to be reminded of Shireen and the choices Stannis made, because Jon is going to make exactly the opposite choice.

Stannis chose to sacrifice his family to get what he wanted, and lost everything.

Jon refuses to sacrifice his family, even if it's to gain a crucial advantage, and he wins. It couldn't have gone any other way. Even if we're talking about it in meta terms, there's no way you can have the hero of a tv show sit on his horse, stone-faced, while the villain uses his little brother for target practice. No way.

I personally don't believe Sansa will be 'punished' in the show for what she did to Ramsey - first of all, it has that karmic death which many bad guys get in GoT: he used his dogs to murder people - gets killed by his dogs.

Also, in a way, he killed himself, as Sansa pointed out. These were his loyal pets, who'd been his companions forever. Except he starved them for a week. If he hadn't, they wouldn't have killed him. He didn't have to do that - he's trained them to do his bidding. He was just being his usual, over-grandiose mustache-twirling villain self, and it's finally backfired.

[dramachick]

18 minutes ago, HumblePi said:

Sansa has been like a pimple since the first season. She's been annoying and well... dumb as dirt. She's the one that wanted to marry a King, even though it was sick puppy Joffrey. It was okay with her that he was cruel to others and even when he chopped off her father's head she was pretty okay with that too since she didn't have the guts to leave on her own. Knowing her aunt got pushed down the moon hole and still doing nothing but put on a pout was way beyond my tolerance of her. Her sad and desperately weepy eyed closeups made me want to slap her around a little. Okay, in my mind only, I'm non-violent. But still....maybe

So now that she has developed a little bit of brain matter and shuts her mouth except to speak a few words of sense, I like her a little bit now. As long as she doesn't get carried away with her own self-importance.

Yeah, her basic personality isn't that great, especially when compared to her siblings. However, she's been through hell and grown up a lot, so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and believe that she's devoted to Jon, the only person for miles around who loves her.

Edited June 20, 2016 by dramachick

[MissLulu]

Well I am battling a big ant infestation in my bathroom on the hottest day of the year (so far). I almost know how Jon Snow must have felt and could use Sanza and the Knights of the Vale right about now! 

[MissLulu]

29 minutes ago, RCharter said:

 

So yeah.....just logically, if Sansa promised Littlefinger something, she may have to do shit for him.

 I guess you did not watch the preview for next weeks episode at the end of the show? 

Spoiler

It is a short clip but he states his intentions were always clear while she seems clueless to what he is implying. She clearly did not promise him anything before the battle but he clearly believes she owes him... 

Edited June 20, 2016 by MissLulu