S08.E11: Invitation Interrupted

[pbutler111]

13 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Yes, 25 year age gaps always work out well!

Maybe you're a hopeless romantic, but I wouldn't go into a relationship in which I knew there was a huge black mark against it from the outset.  I wouldn't go into a relationship in which I had to worry every time I saw a wrinkle on my aging face and compare that to my youthful mate.  Or had to plump my face full of fillers to keep aging at bay.   Maybe you're optimistic, but I don't think a guy who will reach his prime in his mid-30s is going to be as enthralled with her when she hits 60.

Yes, she's brilliant, exciting, adorable, secure in herself (maybe).  But you can't fence time.  She wistfully admitted that a few episodes ago with her "5 summers" comment (which seems generous at best in terms of her relationship).  If you date someone closer to your age, you don't wistfully talk about 5 summers left.  

I think she started this relationship with him thinking it was just a fun fling.  And now she's looking at it being more permanent.  Therefore, I think she will set herself up for a fall when he suddently meets the 30 year-old beauty who saddles up to him and offers him just about everything Carole does.  

Juliet Mills is 18 years older than Maxwell Caulfield.  He was 21, and a rising beefcake actor, and she was 40 when they got together.  Everyone said it had no hope of lasting. They've been married for 36 years now.  Wouldn't it have been a shame if they'd listened to the naysayers and not even tried?

[ryebread]

47 minutes ago, DelicateDee said:

I don't understand the desire to have to be right about this and to make snark about it when it's already been determined that it's a regional thing or maybe it's just the Correct way to pronounce some words.  If you take a word with 2 Ts and actually pronounce both Ts hard, it comes off as sounding like two words, i.e. kiT Ten, coT Ten, etc.. as you actually have to pause to hear the 2 Ts.  I don't hear anybody saying those words like that.  And I was taught the phonics way also, albeit in a public, non-denominational neighborhood schools in Massachusetts.

Agreed. However, the point is, Carole doesn't bother to pronounce even one of the 'T's.  She says:  kih-n. Hard emphasis on the Kih. No need for any stinkin' Ts. Just like my niece who has a full set of braces.  On her, it's cute.  On Carole, she just thinks it is. The rest of us cop to using one soft T.  Midwesterner, here and it's Kit-n.  Not Kit-ten.  And not Kih-n.  Sounds like you say it the same way in Massachusetts as we do here in Michigan.  And the way other New Yorkers do.  Just not Carole.  Or kids with mouths full of orthodontia.

I don't think anyone has a desire to be right about this - just a desire to snark on one more thing Carole does that annoys some of us. My list is long.

KIH-N    KIH-N    KIH-N

[sasha206]

45 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

Juliet Mills is 18 years older than Maxwell Caulfield.  He was 21, and a rising beefcake actor, and she was 40 when they got together.  Everyone said it had no hope of lasting. They've been married for 36 years now.  Wouldn't it have been a shame if they'd listened to the naysayers and not even tried?

I change my mind completely now that you were able to find one example of May-December romance that has worked well.  :)  Let's have this same discussion two years from now when Adam is with his new 30 year-old love.

Again, my point here isn't to say that only relationships that are close in age work.  Or that May-December romances don't work.  But I would bet they work less when the male is signficantly younger than when it is a female that is the signficantly younger one. In my personal view, I'd rather not start off a romance with a big black mark against it.  Maybe Carole is the most secure woman on the face of the earth with her age, the age difference, etc.  But I'd certainly wouldn't want to let my heart open up and have it crushed when the more than likely inevitable happens.  Several episodes ago she had that awareness that I'm espousing.   Several episodes ago, my heart felt for her because she was keenly aware of that more than likely inevitability.  My heart feels for her even more now because she's now convinced herself (or is open) to having permanency with him.  I just don't think he'll stick around.  And this is no reflection on her fabulousness, but he's more than likely going to want that family.    I don't picture Carole wanting to become a mom when he's ready for a family.

50 minutes ago, ElDosEquis said:

I 'dated' a woman who was 17 years older that I was.

We were together for 13 years and we spoke about getting married. I wanted kids, she was past her expiration date, so when the story of marriage, kids and other grown up shit came up, we decided against marriage (Another reason was her daughter hated me because I was tall, had dark hair and was schtupping her mom).

Age is just a number and in NO way determines how a relationship will work. THAT is something you can't put a number on.

And yet the reason you broke up is because what -- AGE-RELATED ISSUES.  You wanted kids, she was "past her expiration date."  Your words.  So yeah, age is more than a number.  I'm not trying to be disrespectul but you made my point.  You had more longevity than what I'd expect, but the eventual breakup as you described had to do with life experiences and stages.  

Edited June 20, 2016 by sasha206

[ryebread]

36 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

And what characteristics does someone have to exhibit for you to know that they're a "real" writer?  It constantly astounds me that people think that "real" writers never misspeak, always use perfect grammar and diction, never argue with people, and apparently never do crass things like poop.  While there are some (very few) writers who may fit that description (aside from the not pooping, one hopes), it's not the norm.  Writers have the luxury of sitting in a quiet room, all alone, writing things down, and then spending hours, days, weeks, months, even years rewriting and reworking and polishing and discarding and rewriting again until the can produce a perfect piece of prose.  Someone can be a verbally bumbling, conversational nitwit in person, but turn out the most beautiful writing you've ever read.  "Real" writers are also real people, with all the flaws that implies.  And the fact that Carole misses deadlines just makes her pretty much your average writer.  The thing that separates Carole from many of us is that she isn't dependent on getting that paycheck that comes with hitting your deadlines.  (I am, and I still miss deadlines.)  The less you need the money, the easier it is to simply let things go.  Carole has enough irons in the fire that she can afford to be careless in certain areas.  It doesn't mean she hires people to write for her (I wish people would let that go already; it's beyond offensive), it just means that she can afford to be careless.

All this.  And that's why when Carole said that Aviva was wrong when she said writing her book was like writing a long email, she showed herself to be a condescending and small minded nincompoop.  I don't remember exactly what she said to Lu when she told her that SHE wasn't a 'real writer' either.  But I think what she said to Aviva was, "You're crazy.  Writing a book is NOT like writing an email."

Says WHO?  I just read a story about a young man who's dad had just passed.  Right before the dad died, he gave his son a password to an email account.  In it were all these emails the dad wrote while he was sick - life lessons he wanted to pass on in writing since he wouldn't be there in person. 

Like a book, I'm sure the dad rewrote, polished, discarded and rewrote those emails.  Who knows?  Maybe the son will publish it into a book one day. Carole is too defensive about her craft.  She needs to sit back, and worry about her own book and deadline and not worry about what or HOW other people write theirs.

[Mondrianyone]

3 minutes ago, ryebread said:

All this.  And that's why when Carole said that Aviva was wrong when she said writing her book was like writing a long email, she showed herself to be a condescending and small minded nincompoop.  I don't remember exactly what she said to Lu when she told her that SHE wasn't a 'real writer' either.  But I think what she said to Aviva was, "You're crazy.  Writing a book is NOT like writing an email."

Apparently Carole has never heard of epistolary novels.  She could Google it on her laptop.

Also, can we have a show of hands from anyone who believes that she's really worth $50 million and isn't doing this show at least in large part because she needs the paycheck?

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, Mondrianyone said:

Apparently Carole has never heard of epistolary novels.  She could Google it on her laptop.

Also, can we have a show of hands from anyone who believes that she's really worth $50 million and isn't doing this show at least in large part because she needs the paycheck?

You mean you really don't believe she's doing all of this as the social experiment she claimed she was doing it for?  She's really not above it all?  

Yes, I don't think she's anywhere close to being worth that much. 

[Umbelina]

I don't think she's ever said what her net worth is, has she?  Just one of those sites that think they know telling us the same kind of BS they tell about all the celebrities.

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

I don't think she's ever said what her net worth is, has she?  Just one of those sites that think they know telling us the same kind of BS they tell about all the celebrities.

She hasn't. In fact, I remember when she was asked about it (reunion show?) she laughed it off and talked about how wildly inaccurate that was.

I would guess she does well enough to live a comfortable lifestyle in New York, but took the job to promote whatever books she plans to write.  And to have access to hot young men.  Okay, I'm just kidding people.

Edited June 20, 2016 by sasha206

[Mondrianyone]

7 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I don't think she's ever said what her net worth is, has she?  Just one of those sites that think they know telling us the same kind of BS they tell about all the celebrities.

Oh, no, I didn't mean she ever said anything like that.  That would be beyond tacky.  Yes, just one of those dopey sites that claim to know celebrities' net worth, whose crazy claims are then taken as gospel by people who should know better, for reasons I can't quite fathom.  I read it on the Internet, so it must be true.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

It isn't "Sonja's" restaurant or even her drink, she is only the face of it. Peter has real partners for both and tried to get Ramona as the face initially but rumor has it that she declined out of fear of incurring Bethenny's wrath over it. LOL

I do think Sonja would be a great hostess at a restaurant but she is too lazy to be the owner of one. LOL

Lol, TipsyGirl spokesmodel is the perfect job for Sonja.  She can still feel free to talk up her awesome financial and business acumen (meeting with distributors, all of them), while really only having to show up looking pretty at parties and events, and playing to the press.

[ElDosEquis]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

And yet the reason you broke up is because what -- AGE-RELATED ISSUES.  You wanted kids, she was "past her expiration date."  Your words.  So yeah, age is more than a number.  I'm not trying to be disrespectul but you made my point.  You had more longevity than what I'd expect, but the eventual breakup as you described had to do with life experiences and stages.  

I didn't want to end the relationship, I blame it on the cancer.

We got past the ARI and decided that we were better off living in the day, not mapping out our relationships according to 'summers'?

[sasha206]

Just now, ElDosEquis said:

I didn't want to end the relationship, I blame it on the cancer.

We got past the ARI and decided that we were better off living in the day, not mapping out our relationships according to 'summers'?

My apologies, but  your original post never mentioned cancer -- only that you wanted kids, she didn't.  She already had them.  So it appeared to me, based on your words, you were at two different stages in life: You wanted kids, she already had them.   I apologize if I sounded disrespectful and I know all too well the pain of your mate having cancer.  

[LIMOM]

3 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

Juliet Mills is 18 years older than Maxwell Caulfield.  He was 21, and a rising beefcake actor, and she was 40 when they got together.  Everyone said it had no hope of lasting. They've been married for 36 years now.  Wouldn't it have been a shame if they'd listened to the naysayers and not even tried?

There is always some exception however even Demi Moore had to face reality that time was not on her side.

Maxwell is now married to a 76 years old woman????

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, LIMOM said:

There is always some exception however even Demi Moore had to face reality that time was not on her side.

Maxwell is now married to a 76 years old woman????

Of course, he also had a lot of "bearding" rumors as well.

[ElDosEquis]

8 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

My apologies, but  your original post never mentioned cancer -- only that you wanted kids, she didn't.  She already had them.  So it appeared to me, based on your words, you were at two different stages in life: You wanted kids, she already had them.   I apologize if I sounded disrespectful and I know all too well the pain of your mate having cancer.  

Don't worry about it. We were in different arcs of our lives, but worked around the problems - and there were problems....

[sasha206]

Just now, ElDosEquis said:

Don't worry about it. We were in different arcs of our lives, but worked around the problems - and there were problems....

I hear you.  Again, I didn't mean to suggest those types of relationships aren't possible.  In the context of Carole and Adam, I just wouldn't be surprised if once he's used up all of her connections for his gain that he's out of there.

But this could all be my suspicious nature of relationships that begin after someone has found reality fame!

[LIMOM]

2 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I hear you.  Again, I didn't mean to suggest those types of relationships aren't possible.  In the context of Carole and Adam, I just wouldn't be surprised if once he's used up all of her connections for his gain that he's out of there.

But this could all be my suspicious nature of relationships that begin after someone has found reality fame!

Nah, he does not look at her with any sexual interest and their relationship seems really fake.

Carole and Adam act like friends not lovers, imo.

[Kiss my mutt]

The best part of this episode for me was watching the hair stylist's face as he was trying to install hair extensions for Luann. At one point he cupped his hands around her head like Stop moving the fuck around and then sharing a look with his assistant like wtf. He was hilarious. 

Bummer not getting to see his work if he was even able to finish it. 

I do worry that Luann is getting to cocky about Tom with her bragging that he wants to marry her. Wanting to marry is not the same as actually doing it. I guess we'll see!!

[pbutler111]

3 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I change my mind completely now that you were able to find one example of May-December romance that has worked well.  :)  Let's have this same discussion two years from now when Adam is with his new 30 year-old love.

Again, my point here isn't to say that only relationships that are close in age work.  Or that May-December romances don't work.  But I would bet they work less when the male is signficantly younger than when it is a female that is the signficantly younger one. In my personal view, I'd rather not start off a romance with a big black mark against it.  Maybe Carole is the most secure woman on the face of the earth with her age, the age difference, etc.  But I'd certainly wouldn't want to let my heart open up and have it crushed when the more than likely inevitable happens.  Several episodes ago she had that awareness that I'm espousing.   Several episodes ago, my heart felt for her because she was keenly aware of that more than likely inevitability.  My heart feels for her even more now because she's now convinced herself (or is open) to having permanency with him.  I just don't think he'll stick around.  And this is no reflection on her fabulousness, but he's more than likely going to want that family.    I don't picture Carole wanting to become a mom when he's ready for a family.

And yet the reason you broke up is because what -- AGE-RELATED ISSUES.  You wanted kids, she was "past her expiration date."  Your words.  So yeah, age is more than a number.  I'm not trying to be disrespectul but you made my point.  You had more longevity than what I'd expect, but the eventual breakup as you described had to do with life experiences and stages.  

I didn't really think it was necessary to list every successful May-December in the history of the world in order to make my point, which I'm guessing pretty much everyone else here got.  My husband is 17 years older than I am, and will most likely die first, which will suck.  Should I have just walked on by to save myself that heartache?  Some folks -- and Carole seems to be among them now -- think it's worth risking a broken heart tomorrow for happiness today.  I think that's admirable.

[sasha206]

3 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

I didn't really think it was necessary to list every successful May-December in the history of the world in order to make my point, which I'm guessing pretty much everyone else here got.  

I was just being silly.  Really, let's not get that worked up over differing view points about a show we all speculate about.

Edited June 21, 2016 by sasha206

[pbutler111]

48 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

There is always some exception however even Demi Moore had to face reality that time was not on her side.

Maxwell is now married to a 76 years old woman????

I believe she's 75 and he's 56.  Francesa Annis and Ralph Fiennes were together for about 12 years, I believe. She's 17 years his senior.  He left his wife, Alex Kingston (who is Feines' age), for Annis.

[Kiss my mutt]

I think the reason Carole and Adam won't work out is that he's just not into here anymore. He's into himself. He seems to give zero fucks about this cookbook. He's probably thinking crap, now I have to stay with her or the book won't sell. 

[sasha206]

17 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

I believe she's 75 and he's 56.  Francesa Annis and Ralph Fiennes were together for about 12 years, I believe. She's 17 years his senior.  He left his wife, Alex Kingston (who is Feines' age), for Annis.

You're up to two couples in which the female is signficantly older!  Hugh Jackman equal three. 

I'm so convinced. :)

[pbutler111]

2 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

You're up to two couples in which the female is signficantly older!  Hugh Jackman equal three. 

I'm so convinced. :)

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

[sasha206]

7 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

Do you ever actually laugh or are you always this serious?  I was clearly being silly.  I'll back off since this appears to be a sore topic for you.

Edited June 21, 2016 by sasha206

[bravofan27]

I actually think that Carole may feel a little stuck with Adam. I like Adam, and I don't have a huge problem with him-- he seems kind and caring even though IMO pretty hideous, but I'm not sleeping with him so who cares.

If he wanted children, he would not be with Carole, IMO. So she actually probably doesn't have that out.

But Carole is the one that said, "Men don't even get interesting until after 40" so I suspect she is bored to tears with Adam, but can't really get out of it cuz he loves her a lot or is at least very dependent on her and she feels bad or obligated to him, especially after all the hubub she made over their relationship to Luann. 

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, bravofan27 said:

I actually think that Carole may feel a little stuck with Adam. I like Adam, and I don't have a huge problem with him-- he seems kind and caring even though IMO pretty hideous, but I'm not sleeping with him so who cares.

If he wanted children, he would not be with Carole, IMO. So she actually probably doesn't have that out.

But Carole is the one that said, "Men don't even get interesting until after 40" so I suspect she is bored to tears with Adam, but can't really get out of it cuz he loves her a lot or is at least very dependent on her and she feels bad or obligated to him, especially after all the hubub she made over their relationship to Luann. 

Yeah, I don't think so.  

[bravofan27]

Thanks for sharing. 

[sasha206]

Just now, bravofan27 said:

Thanks for sharing. 

Sorry, I'm feeling slap happy.  

You make good points; I just think she's in love.  

[pbutler111]

7 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Do you ever actually laugh or are you always this serious?  I was clearly being silly.  I'll back off since this appears to be a sore topic for you.

You read an awful lot into other people's posts.  No, this isn't a sore topic for me.  I don't even know what that would entail.  We have a different opinion on something that doesn't make the least bit of difference to either of our lives, and about which neither of us really has enough information to even be expressing an opinion.  No one here has any idea what goes on between Adam and Carole, any more than Adam and Carole would have any idea what goes on in your relationship or mine, so it's all just so many flapping gums, pretty much signifying nothing.

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, pbutler111 said:

You read an awful lot into other people's posts.  No, this isn't a sore topic for me.  I don't even know what that would entail.  We have a different opinion on something that doesn't make the least bit of difference to either of our lives, and about which neither of us really has enough information to even be expressing an opinion.  No one here has any idea what goes on between Adam and Carole, any more than Adam and Carole would have any idea what goes on in your relationship or mine, so it's all just so many flapping gums, pretty much signifying nothing.

Absolutely.  We're all speculating.  On that I will agree.  

[ryebread]

31 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I think the reason Carole and Adam won't work out is that he's just not into here anymore. He's into himself. He seems to give zero fucks about this cookbook. He's probably thinking crap, now I have to stay with her or the book won't sell. 

Yeah.  There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of passion there.  He's so monotone. But maybe he's just stoned all the time.  He's got a passion for micro greens.  Yeah. Micro greens and cucumbers.

He had something like 400 followers on his Instagram the night he showed up on my TV in Lu's kitchen.  Within 2 weeks, he had over 3000.  A year later and he has 59,000 - so the exposure has definitely helped his social media presence.

I don't think they'll work out because he wants children.  While looking at his Instagram in the early days, there were many pictures of him and his toddler nephew.  Adam is clearly smitten by him.  Feeding him organic baby food that he made, playing with him in the yard.  This episode, when Carole walks into his apartment, there is a portrait of him on the wall. 

Did Carole mention that Adam wanted kids in her Five Summers Colloquy?

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, ryebread said:

Yeah.  There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of passion there.  He's so monotone. But maybe he's just stoned all the time.  He's got a passion for micro greens.  Yeah. Micro greens and cucumbers.

He had something like 400 followers on his Instagram the night he showed up on my TV in Lu's kitchen.  Within 2 weeks, he had over 3000.  A year later and he has 59,000 - so the exposure has definitely helped his social media presence.

I don't think they'll work out because he wants children.  While looking at his Instagram in the early days, there were many pictures of him and his toddler nephew.  Adam is clearly smitten by him.  Feeding him organic baby food that he made, playing with him in the yard.  This episode, when Carole walks into his apartment, there is a portrait of him on the wall. 

Did Carole mention that Adam wanted kids in her Five Summers Colloquy?

The exposure certainly helps!

I can't remember if Carole mentioned that he wanted kids as in he literally said, "I want kids" or she just assumed that someday, he'll most likely want kids.

[bravofan27]

Carole has been very vague. She makes it sound like she is assuming Adam will want kids, but maybe he told her that he did. That said, Carole is pretty private on her relationship, and she doesn't invite him out with her to the HW events, so I think she's a little embarrassed by him. John and Michael have shown up at places. I don't believe it's to simply keep him away Luann. 

[Trooper York]

She doesn't invite him because most limos don't have car seats.

[motorcitymom65]

8 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

I actually think that Carole may feel a little stuck with Adam. I like Adam, and I don't have a huge problem with him-- he seems kind and caring even though IMO pretty hideous, but I'm not sleeping with him so who cares.

If he wanted children, he would not be with Carole, IMO. So she actually probably doesn't have that out.

But Carole is the one that said, "Men don't even get interesting until after 40" so I suspect she is bored to tears with Adam, but can't really get out of it cuz he loves her a lot or is at least very dependent on her and she feels bad or obligated to him, especially after all the hubub she made over their relationship to Luann. 

She did say that about men only being interesting after 40. I think that the whole point in this relationship is that it took Carole by surprise. She didn't expect to fall for this guy, yet she did. 

[motorcitymom65]

6 hours ago, bravofan27 said:

Carole has been very vague. She makes it sound like she is assuming Adam will want kids, but maybe he told her that he did. That said, Carole is pretty private on her relationship, and she doesn't invite him out with her to the HW events, so I think she's a little embarrassed by him. John and Michael have shown up at places. I don't believe it's to simply keep him away Luann. 

And yet she is sharing her relationship with him with the world. Why would she do that if she was embarrassed by him? It is just as likely that he isn't interested in doing the dramatic group scenes. Maybe he is fine with the quiet moments just with Carole, but doesn't want to get down into the mud. We saw him with a few of the other other gals last season when Carole had the dinner party, so she is clearly not afraid to bring him around. 

[ryebread]

I don't think she's embarrassed of him because she could keep him under wraps entirely if she was.  Although I've been married a long time, my husband can still do things that are embarrassing. I don't know if I'd want him on camera often if I were a RHOMC.  I wonder, though, if after she views the film they're in together, if she ever wishes he was more attentive to her.  He may be just that private but I just don't sense a lot of heat between them. 

If they really ARE into each other, then it's smart to not have him featured very often.  That never, ever works for any of the couples across any of the franchises.

[Yours Truly]

14 hours ago, ryebread said:

All this.  And that's why when Carole said that Aviva was wrong when she said writing her book was like writing a long email, she showed herself to be a condescending and small minded nincompoop.  I don't remember exactly what she said to Lu when she told her that SHE wasn't a 'real writer' either.  But I think what she said to Aviva was, "You're crazy.  Writing a book is NOT like writing an email."

Says WHO?  I just read a story about a young man who's dad had just passed.  Right before the dad died, he gave his son a password to an email account.  In it were all these emails the dad wrote while he was sick - life lessons he wanted to pass on in writing since he wouldn't be there in person. 

Like a book, I'm sure the dad rewrote, polished, discarded and rewrote those emails.  Who knows?  Maybe the son will publish it into a book one day. Carole is too defensive about her craft.  She needs to sit back, and worry about her own book and deadline and not worry about what or HOW other people write theirs.

Exactly! Carole runs around and can't hide her intense disapproval for anyone who isn't "really" a writer according to her but then she turns around and exhibits such ridiculous behavior while on a deadline for a book. If you're going to be that protective about your "craft" and that condescending to others who dabble in it too then hello maybe the first thing we see out of your creative process shouldn't be giggling and bucking for the cameras about how you don't know what a deadline is. Carole is beyond the pale.

Oh and what other irons does Carole have in the fire I wonder?? That goes back to a question regarding what Carole does all day. Plus, being able to afford to be careless doesn't make it any less snarkworthy. Not very professional.

[Yours Truly]

10 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

You read an awful lot into other people's posts.  No, this isn't a sore topic for me.  I don't even know what that would entail.  We have a different opinion on something that doesn't make the least bit of difference to either of our lives, and about which neither of us really has enough information to even be expressing an opinion.  No one here has any idea what goes on between Adam and Carole, any more than Adam and Carole would have any idea what goes on in your relationship or mine, so it's all just so many flapping gums, pretty much signifying nothing.

Well maybe we have a little more to go on than they would have to go on about any of us. You see they actually share pieces of their relationship on a show soooooooo.

[pbutler111]

15 hours ago, ryebread said:

All this.  And that's why when Carole said that Aviva was wrong when she said writing her book was like writing a long email, she showed herself to be a condescending and small minded nincompoop.  I don't remember exactly what she said to Lu when she told her that SHE wasn't a 'real writer' either.  But I think what she said to Aviva was, "You're crazy.  Writing a book is NOT like writing an email."

Says WHO?  I just read a story about a young man who's dad had just passed.  Right before the dad died, he gave his son a password to an email account.  In it were all these emails the dad wrote while he was sick - life lessons he wanted to pass on in writing since he wouldn't be there in person. 

Like a book, I'm sure the dad rewrote, polished, discarded and rewrote those emails.  Who knows?  Maybe the son will publish it into a book one day. Carole is too defensive about her craft.  She needs to sit back, and worry about her own book and deadline and not worry about what or HOW other people write theirs.

You said "all this" in response to my post, then went on to pretty much ignore and negate every single thing I said in that post, so I'm not quite sure what it is you were agreeing with.  Writing a book is not like writing an email.  "Says WHO?"  Says anyone who's ever written a good book.  If anything, in the Aviva situation, Carole wasn't defensive enough.  And when and how did Carole ever express any concern about how other people write their books?  If she did, I didn't see it.

43 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Well maybe we have a little more to go on than they would have to go on about any of us. You see they actually share pieces of their relationship on a show soooooooo.

Yes, people who are aware they're being filmed do things in front of cameras, and then that footage is edited like crazy and then presented to a viewing audience, who end up seeing a sum total of a few minutes of the result.  If you think that gives any of us a fair representation of what these people's actual lives and relationships are, then I have some real estate in Florida you might be interested in checking out.

[Former Nun]

15 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

Juliet Mills is 18 years older than Maxwell Caulfield.  He was 21, and a rising beefcake actor, and she was 40 when they got together.  Everyone said it had no hope of lasting. They've been married for 36 years now.  Wouldn't it have been a shame if they'd listened to the naysayers and not even tried?

Yep...and add Audrey Hepburn, Merle Oberon, and Joan Collins for interesting stories.

[Yours Truly]

54 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

You said "all this" in response to my post, then went on to pretty much ignore and negate every single thing I said in that post, so I'm not quite sure what it is you were agreeing with.  Writing a book is not like writing an email.  "Says WHO?"  Says anyone who's ever written a good book.  If anything, in the Aviva situation, Carole wasn't defensive enough.  And when and how did Carole ever express any concern about how other people write their books?  If she did, I didn't see it.

Yes, people who are aware they're being filmed do things in front of cameras, and then that footage is edited like crazy and then presented to a viewing audience, who end up seeing a sum total of a few minutes of the result.  If you think that gives any of us a fair representation of what these people's actual lives and relationships are, then I have some real estate in Florida you might be interested in checking out.

Woah there, regardless of all the magical TV gymnastics involved in putting the show in front of the viewers eyes there are still things that are shared straight from the persons buck gummed mouth. Then there's also her blogs.  Not saying she's divulging relationship secrets only that  even as minuscule as some seem to think the information presented is it is still more to go on that anyone would have on any one of us viewers. Just pointing out that we see more about them than they do of us since ya know we aren't on reality tv. Nothing more, nothing less.

As to the bolded. I did. :-)

Edited June 21, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

16 hours ago, ryebread said:

All this.  And that's why when Carole said that Aviva was wrong when she said writing her book was like writing a long email, she showed herself to be a condescending and small minded nincompoop.  I don't remember exactly what she said to Lu when she told her that SHE wasn't a 'real writer' either.  But I think what she said to Aviva was, "You're crazy.  Writing a book is NOT like writing an email."

Says WHO?  I just read a story about a young man who's dad had just passed.  Right before the dad died, he gave his son a password to an email account.  In it were all these emails the dad wrote while he was sick - life lessons he wanted to pass on in writing since he wouldn't be there in person. 

Like a book, I'm sure the dad rewrote, polished, discarded and rewrote those emails.  Who knows?  Maybe the son will publish it into a book one day. Carole is too defensive about her craft.  She needs to sit back, and worry about her own book and deadline and not worry about what or HOW other people write theirs.

I don't necessarily disagree with Carole as it relates to Aviva and LuAnn.  I feel like Carole is to writing what Heather is to successful business.  Heather gets a lot of praise and credit for having a successful business before she was a housewife, as compared to say Bethenny, who found success based on her popularity or celebrity as a reality show "star".  Carole had a best selling book before RHONY, and a book deal for Widow's Guide and the book of essays before she was a housewife.  It was not dependent on her "reality tv fame" or appearance on the show.  I think it is different than Aviva or LuAnn (I think LuAnn was actually shown meeting with her ghostwriter).  I mean, just think about all the Housewives who have books they've "written".  Ramona, LuAnn, Aviva, Jill Zarin, Lisa Vanderpump, Kyle Richards, Brandi Glanville, Caroline Manzo, Teresa Guidice, Danielle Staub.  I mean, do I believe that all of these women are "real writers"?  Ummmmm, no. 

I believe it took Carole many years to write What Remains and it was almost a decade before Widow's Guide.  I believe writing has been a very intense and long process for Carole and she has said that she has needed to isolate herself to write and that she wasn't in a place where she wanted to do that, which is why she kept putting off the second book.  I think the cookbook is an interesting angle and it seems like a way that Carole can write and still be involved in her life without isolating herself, so it's a new approach for her.  I think Adam is more interested in the cooking part and Carole is more interested in the writing part, which makes sense, so it's a nice way that they can share their different passions. 

....and I've said it before and I will say it again, if you haven't read What Remains, I highly recommend reading it, especially if you have ever experienced grief or loss.  It's a beautiful book. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by shoegal

[sasha206]

4 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I don't necessarily disagree with Carole as it relates to Aviva and LuAnn.  I feel like Carole is to writing what Heather is to successful business.  Heather gets a lot of praise and credit for having a successful business before she was a housewife, as compared to say Bethenny, who found success based on her popularity or celebrity as a reality show "star".  Carole had a best selling book before RHONY, and a book deal for Widow's Guide and the book of essays before she was a housewife.  It was not dependent on her "reality tv fame" or appearance on the show.  I think it is different than Aviva or LuAnn (I think LuAnn was actually shown meeting with her ghostwriter).  I mean, just think about all the Housewives who have books they've "written".  Ramona, LuAnn, Aviva, Jill Zarin, Lisa Vanderpump, Kyle Richards, Brandi Glanville, Caroline Manzo, Teresa Guidice, Danielle Staub.  I mean, do I believe that all of these women are "real writers"?  Ummmmm, no. 

I believe it took Carole many years to write What Remains and it was almost a decade before Widow's Guide.  I believe writing has been a very intense and long process for Carole and she has said that she has needed to isolate herself to write and that she wasn't in a place where she wanted to do that, which is why she kept putting off the second book.  I think the cookbook is an interesting angle and it seems like a way that Carole can write and still be involved in her life without isolating herself, so it's a new approach for her.  I think Adam is more interested in the cooking part and Carole is more interested in the writing part, which makes sense, so it's a nice way that they can share their different passions. 

....and I've said it before and I will say it again, if you haven't read What Remains, I highly recommend reading it, especially if you have ever experienced grief or loss.  It's a beautiful book. 

Agreed on your points.   Writing to her is personal, it was her actual profession and it would irk me to no end if my work was then compared to one of those quick and dirty RH books written with much much help.

[Yours Truly]

3 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I don't necessarily disagree with Carole as it relates to Aviva and LuAnn.  I feel like Carole is to writing what Heather is to successful business.  Heather gets a lot of praise and credit for having a successful business before she was a housewife, as compared to say Bethenny, who found success based on her popularity or celebrity as a reality show "star".  Carole had a best selling book before RHONY, and a book deal for Widow's Guide and the book of essays before she was a housewife.  It was not dependent on her "reality tv fame" or appearance on the show.  I think it is different than Aviva or LuAnn (I think LuAnn was actually shown meeting with her ghostwriter).  I mean, just think about all the Housewives who have books they've "written".  Ramona, LuAnn, Aviva, Jill Zarin, Lisa Vanderpump, Kyle Richards, Brandi Glanville, Caroline Manzo, Teresa Guidice, Danielle Staub.  I mean, do I believe that all of these women are "real writers"?  Ummmmm, no. 

I believe it took Carole many years to write What Remains and it was almost a decade before Widow's Guide.  I believe writing is a very intense and long process for Carole and she has said that she needs to isolate herself to write and that she wasn't in a place where she wanted to do that, which is why she kept putting off the second book.  I think the cookbook is an interesting angle and it seems like a way that Carole can write and still be involved in her life without isolating herself, so it's a new approach for her.  I think Adam is more interested in the cooking part and Carole is more interested in the writing part, which makes sense, so it's a nice way that they can share their different passions. 

....and I've said it before and I will say it again, if you haven't read What Remains, I highly recommend reading it, especially if you have ever experienced grief or loss.  It's a beautiful book. 

I don't necessarily think that Carole is wrong to be proud of her accomplishment and status as an author. I also understand it if she has uber side eye about books written in the After Housewives timeline. It's the intensity that I'm not a fan of. It's the disapproval that she feels entitled to spray around. I get the disdain cause it's hard when people treat something like a fun hobby that you treat as something much more valuable but it's still not for anyone to express such extreme possession over something that isn't for any one person to own.

[ryebread]

1 hour ago, pbutler111 said:

You said "all this" in response to my post, then went on to pretty much ignore and negate every single thing I said in that post, so I'm not quite sure what it is you were agreeing with.  

I agreed with everything you said here:

Quote

And what characteristics does someone have to exhibit for you to know that they're a "real" writer?  It constantly astounds me that people think that "real" writers never misspeak, always use perfect grammar and diction, never argue with people, and apparently never do crass things like poop.  While there are some (very few) writers who may fit that description (aside from the not pooping, one hopes), it's not the norm.  Writers have the luxury of sitting in a quiet room, all alone, writing things down, and then spending hours, days, weeks, months, even years rewriting and reworking and polishing and discarding and rewriting again until the can produce a perfect piece of prose.  Someone can be a verbally bumbling, conversational nitwit in person, but turn out the most beautiful writing you've ever read.  "Real" writers are also real people, with all the flaws that implies.  And the fact that Carole misses deadlines just makes her pretty much your average writer.  The thing that separates Carole from many of us is that she isn't dependent on getting that paycheck that comes with hitting your deadlines.  (I am, and I still miss deadlines.)  The less you need the money, the easier it is to simply let things go.  Carole has enough irons in the fire that she can afford to be careless in certain areas.  It doesn't mean she hires people to write for her (I wish people would let that go already; it's beyond offensive), it just means that she can afford to be careless.

Who *IS* to say what constitutes a 'real' writer?  Like you, I don't assume that "real" writers never misspeak, always use perfect grammar and diction, never argue with people, and apparently never do crass things like poop.  While there are some (very few) writers who may fit that description (aside from the not pooping, one hopes), it's not the norm. "  Exactly, in agreement with ya.

Bottom line is, it's not Carole's job to describe what a real writer is.  Or how they should write.  Eveyone has their own method.  And I also agree that writers are real people with flaws.  And also agree that bumbling, conversational people can turn out beautiful writing.

So, see?  I do agree with you.  It seems like Carole, though, doesn't.  In her peabrain, there's only one way to write a book.  She told us that Aviva and Luann aren't doing it the way she did so therefore they can't write.

Edited June 21, 2016 by ryebread

[shoegal]

19 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I don't necessarily think that Carole is wrong to be proud of her accomplishment and status as an author. I also understand it if she has uber side eye about books written in the After Housewives timeline. It's the intensity that I'm not a fan of. It's the disapproval that she feels entitled to spray around. I get the disdain cause it's hard when people treat something like a fun hobby that you treat as something much more valuable but it's still not for anyone to express such extreme possession over something that isn't for any one person to own.

LOL, I guess she should do it anonymously on a message board like a normal person?  I dunno, I guess I can't really fault her for that.  Pot, kettle and all that jazz. 

[ryebread]

27 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Agreed on your points.   Writing to her is personal, it was her actual profession and it would irk me to no end if my work was then compared to one of those quick and dirty RH books written with much much help.

But who was comparing them?  I don't think I heard anyone, except Carole, compare books.  Everyone has a right to write.  If one of them was running around saying "My book is just as good as yours" then I'd be LMAO because, yeah, some of the HWs are just writing quick and dirty and comparisons between those and a well written and well received book shouldn't be made.

It's Carole's insistence that unless you pour YEARS into honing your craft and then MORE YEARS writing the book, that you can't possibly be a writer that is so condescending.

Do you guys want to continue discussing this in her thread?  I've had good behavior lately and I don't want to be nicked by our long suffering mods. :-)

Edited June 21, 2016 by ryebread

[Yours Truly]

18 minutes ago, ryebread said:

I agreed with everything you said here:

Who *IS* to say what constitutes a 'real' writer?  Like you, I don't assume that "real" writers never misspeak, always use perfect grammar and diction, never argue with people, and apparently never do crass things like poop.  While there are some (very few) writers who may fit that description (aside from the not pooping, one hopes), it's not the norm. "  Exactly, in agreement with ya.

Bottom line is, it's not Carole's job to describe what a real writer is.  Or how they should write.  Eveyone has their own method.  And I also agree that writers are real people with flaws.  And also agree that bumbling, conversational people can turn out beautiful writing.

So, see?  I do agree with you.  It seems like Carole, though, doesn't.  In her peabrain, there's only one way to write a book.  She told us that Aviva and Luann aren't doing it the way she did so therefore they can't write.

or more accurately shouldn't be considered legitimate authors.

I just think it's comical that Carole's whole persona is of someone who isn't bothered. That's what she force feeds us and yet she exhibits so many contradictions to this that it's comedy gold with her as the jester in the Real Housewives kingdom.

I believe she has zero fucks as much as I believe that she has perfectly aligned and proportioned mouth.. Bwahhaaahaaa.