Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Miss Dee]

There's a whole thread devoted to arguing about Sansa and her motivations. Just pointing that out....

[Eyes High]

Didn't Frikidoctor say that Arya plays the lying game with Sansa (minus the stick) in 7x06? That may be what the "What are you scared of?" line from the 7x06 promo is about.

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Didn't Frikidoctor say that Arya plays the lying game with Sansa (minus the stick) in 7x06? That may be what the "What are you scared of?" line from the 7x06 promo is about.

Yeah, that's what it looks like.

Perhaps we'll get the outline mid-week for more detail.

[Wouter]

On 13/8/2017 at 2:22 AM, WindyNights said:

I mean GRRM pretty much spelled out that Jon is coming back as a fire wight in his recent interview so that's definitely not as cliche as what the show did

GRRM often puts a new spin on things, or subverts clichés. But he's still writing a fantasy story, and some fans went too far in thinking he was out to subvert the entire genre (with the supposed saviour dying midway through, after all that build-up...).

[YaddaYadda]

Wasn't there something about Tyrion having feelings for Dany? Because I don't see it. If it's there I don't see it being played up. He clearly knows that something is developing between she and Jon, but beyond that, I haven't see the stuff that was talked about before.

[Eyes High]

12 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Wasn't there something about Tyrion having feelings for Dany? Because I don't see it. If it's there I don't see it being played up. He clearly knows that something is developing between she and Jon, but beyond that, I haven't see the stuff that was talked about before.

Cersei makes a barbed comment to Tyrion in the 7x10 leaked script page that she's "not surprised" about something, proceeding to compare Dany to Shae (a "foreign whore who doesn't know her place"). Also, according to Frikidoctor, Tyrion realizes that Dany/Jon boatsex is ongoing (he knocks on the door or something when they're going at it?).

The interesting thing is that just watching the aired episodes so far, there really isn't any overt suggestion that Tyrion is in love with Dany; he's concerned about her welfare, but since he's her Hand and he's bet everything on her, that makes sense. In the leaked outlines for the aired episodes, though, the writers allude to Tyrion's love for Dany a few times, although not in actual dialogue but in the notes (e.g. the fact that Dany's concern about Jon going on the wight hunt sounds like a woman trying to keep her man out of harm's way is "not lost on Tyrion or Jorah"). I suppose the revelation that Tyrion is in love with Dany is being "saved" for 7x10, assuming Cersei's line from the script makes it to the show. Maybe it's a plot point for next season somehow.

[SeanC]

Just now, doram said:

Maybe the leakers got it wrong. 

I think we're well past that at this point.  They explicitly reference dialogue, and based on the leaked outlines for earlier episodes, it does seem like that element is meant to be there in the season in some form.

[Eyes High]

11 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I think we're well past that at this point.  They explicitly reference dialogue, and based on the leaked outlines for earlier episodes, it does seem like that element is meant to be there in the season in some form.

It might be toned down, though, much like Sansa being power-hungry, which comes through much louder and clearer in the outlines than it does in the aired episodes.

[Colorful Mess]

Since I read the books in 2005, I really wanted Jon and Dany to develop some kind of romance but it looks like it will be more of a fling or a one night stand. I dont see Jon developing any deep feelings for Dany at this point. She's way more into him than he's into her. In fact, he seems downright uninterested in her. 

Two major tells for me: He doesn't think her kids are all that great. Magnificent isnt how he would describe them - he's not being truthful here and feels the need to placate her. The presence of Jorah there was the second tell. His chemistry with Dany was unreal in that scene with all 3 of them. I think we're being set up to have Dany realize that she chose the wrong person to love. He was right there all along. 

[Couver]

On 8/13/2017 at 7:32 AM, YaddaYadda said:

They did seem to do that, but I wonder if having a dragon doesn't just make things go quicker. The NK and his army are on the march and on their way to Eastwatch, so it's not like they're going to stop there because they need a dragon to melt a hole in the Wall.

I'm not a fan of the wight dragon. I'd rather Cersei had managed to kill one dragon instead of this.

I think a more shocking surprise would have been the NK showing up with his own massive wight dragon since he's clearly old enough to have been around when dragons were more plentiful. But I really really didn't want any of the 3 dragons to die so that's probably why I wanted that to happen. Ep  is going to be so tough now that I spoiled myself.

[Eyes High]

18 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

Since I read the books in 2005, I really wanted Jon and Dany to develop some kind of romance but it looks like it will be more of a fling or a one night stand. I dont see Jon developing any deep feelings for Dany at this point. She's way more into him than he's into her. In fact, he seems downright uninterested in her. 

Jon's unquestionably into Dany as far as I can tell, but the only thing he cares about right now is the NK and his army coming to destroy Westeros. He couldn't even get excited about Arya and Bran being alive because he's that worried about the NK, and I don't see anyone suggesting that Jon must not love Arya and Bran because he had virtually no reaction to news of their safe arrival at Winterfell.

 

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Two major tells for me: He doesn't think her kids are all that great. Magnificent isnt how he would describe them - he's not being truthful here and feels the need to placate her.

It was "beautiful," and not "magnificent." Jon is impressed by the dragons--he spoke eloquently enough last episode about how wonderful they were--but he's more terrified of them than awestruck by their beauty. 

 

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The presence of Jorah there was the second tell. His chemistry with Dany was unreal in that scene with all 3 of them. I think we're being set up to have Dany realize that she chose the wrong person to love. He was right there all along. 

Nope. Jorah is Lord of the Friendzone until he dies where Dany's concerned, which is why Jorah looked so chagrined when he volunteered for a suicide mission and Jon immediately upstaged him by insisting on leading said suicide mission. Also, Dany seemed inclined to refuse Jon permission to leave, whereas she didn't immediately balk at Jorah volunteering. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Eyes High

[Raachel2008]

5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

He couldn't even get excited about Arya and Bran being alive because he's that worried about the NK, and I don't see anyone suggesting that Jon must not love Arya and Bran because he had virtually no reaction to news of their safe arrival at Winterfell.

I fault the writers for this. - and a lot of other things. It wouldn't have hurt to show Jon being happy/relieved/insert emotion here learning his siblings were alive. 

[glowbug]

I think Dany seems more into Jon than he is into her at this point too. I don't know if this what the writers were going for or if it's Kit's acting. There are several instances where he could have played up Jon's attraction to Dany but it didn't come across. Emilia is doing a good job showing that Dany is into Jon, although the writing is also giving her a little more to work with. 

Based on the spoilers, though, Jon becomes very into Dany once she joins the fight against the White Walkers so maybe that's what's holding him back. By the end of the season I expect them to be equally into each other. 

[Moxie Cat]

21 minutes ago, Couver said:

Ep  is going to be so tough now that I spoiled myself.

I'm just the opposite - I'm glad I know, because I would have been devastated to see it happen without knowing ahead of time. I've had a couple weeks now to process my emotions so at least it won't be a shock. (Getting over Lane on Mad Men, which I wasn't spoiled for, was tough enough!)

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, glowbug said:

I think Dany seems more into Jon than he is into her at this point too. I don't know if this what the writers were going for or if it's Kit's acting. There are several instances where he could have played up Jon's attraction to Dany but it didn't come across. Emilia is doing a good job showing that Dany is into Jon, although the writing is also giving her a little more to work with. 

Based on the spoilers, though, Jon becomes very into Dany once she joins the fight against the White Walkers so maybe that's what's holding him back. By the end of the season I expect them to be equally into each other. 

The fact that Jon initiates sex with Dany in 7x07 is proof enough that he's in love with her, in my opinion, since Jon's not the type to do that unless very deep feelings are involved, nor is he the type to engage in a FWB arrangement. He may not be in love with her yet as of 7x05, but he's very interested. As he impatiently told Davos, though, "There's no time for that." For Jon, there's no time for anything except the NK, not even for a sigh of relief that Arya and Bran are alive.

[bubble sparkly]

I think Jon has definitely been shown to be attracted to Dany. The first time he sees her does a double-take but then gets down to business. And last week in the cave they were both shooting heart eyes at each other.

Also, Jon isn't exactly a suave ladies man and I don't think he realised that Dany's "I didn't give you permission to leave" was her meaning that she didn't want him to leave and put himself in danger. I don't see Jon as someone who would make a move, especially on a Queen, without being 200% sure she reciprocated.

[DangerousTangerine]

Jon is PLENTY into Dany. I mean, we're only one episode away from when he was just eye sexing her in a dark cave. LOL...Overall though, it's in the small moments . When they were up on the cliff and Dany was watching the dragons, he was just gazing at her HARD. Then he catches himself staring and kind of shakes his head, willing himself to snap out of it. That's indicative of his overall mindset. He's very attracted to her but he doesn't feel there is time for this sort of thing.

And who could miss how jealous he seemed of Jorah's sudden presence....this man GLOWERED when Dany hugged Jorah....Jon didn't like that shit AT ALL lololol....he seemed cool with Jorah right up until the point Dany touched him lol....Jealous Jon is a thing I didn't know I needed until I actually saw it lol

He was also noting her concern for Jorah when he first said he would go on the suicide mission and then Jon felt the need to do him one better and lead the damn mission. LOL JEALOUS AS CAN BE! He's into her but trying hard to stay focused right now. His resolve shall crumble though once they face that harrowing situation beyond the wall together. It will mean a lot to him that Dany rode to his rescue and from that we'll see intimacy develop.

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Since I read the books in 2005, I really wanted Jon and Dany to develop some kind of romance but it looks like it will be more of a fling or a one night stand. I dont see Jon developing any deep feelings for Dany at this point. She's way more into him than he's into her. In fact, he seems downright uninterested in her. 

I disagree that he's not interested in her. I think that the exchange between Jon and Davos said plenty. He just doesn't have time for any of this. Falling in love with someone doesn't register high on his list of priorities.

9 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

I fault the writers for this. - and a lot of other things. It wouldn't have hurt to show Jon being happy/relieved/insert emotion here learning his siblings were alive. 

Yeah. Some emotion would have been nice. A long exhale after saying that Bran and Arya are alive when he thought them dead to show how relieved he was would have been nice.

[YaddaYadda]

6 minutes ago, doram said:

At the same time, I think the build up for Dany and Jon could be better. There are a couple of missed opportunity already - not bringing up Aemon Targaryen, Dany not connecting the White Walkers to her visions from the House of the Undying... And now Jon and Dany having a conversation about scary pet-monster-children and Jon not mentioning, "I'm familiar with them. I have giant wolf." and have Dany be intrigued by that.

I find it very difficult to explain away why they haven't brought up Maester Aemon. Jon knew Dany's last living relative, a man who helped shape Jon so much (more so in the books). The things Maester Aemon has told Jon about honor and duty, killing the boy, the support he lent him, these things still resonate throughout Jon's arc. It bothers me that they probably haven't mentioned anything about Maester Aemon because plot point might have dictated it. Maester Aemon is such a wonderful character and Jon cared a great deal about him, so it bugs.

Also, Ghost is probably dead to Jon. Can't mention that great beast. But we know he's back in Winterfell. I will never forgive the show for how they made the direwolves unimportant like that.

[anamika]

40 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I find it very difficult to explain away why they haven't brought up Maester Aemon. Jon knew Dany's last living relative, a man who helped shape Jon so much (more so in the books). The things Maester Aemon has told Jon about honor and duty, killing the boy, the support he lent him, these things still resonate throughout Jon's arc. It bothers me that they probably haven't mentioned anything about Maester Aemon because plot point might have dictated it. Maester Aemon is such a wonderful character and Jon cared a great deal about him, so it bugs.

The showrunners probably don't even remember Maester Aemon anymore. Then we have things like Gendry and Jon meeting and Gendry for some reason fails to mention Arya.  I guess there is no time for small talk.

As for Ghost, I would rather he be off screen and alive rather than make an appearance and get killed off for the CGI dragon budget. In my fictional world, he and Nymeria are happily frolicking in the snow having a good time.

 I wonder if we can now keep track of the timeline using Cersei's pregnancy...

Edited August 15, 2017 by anamika

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, anamika said:

The showrunners probably don't even remember Maester Aemon anymore. Then we have things like Gendry and Jon meeting and Gendry for some reason fails to mention Arya.  I guess there is no time for small talk.

I dunno. Tyrion brought up Sansa to Jon right off the bat, despite the awkwardness. Gendry mentioning Arya would have made far more sense than forging a bond based on their dads, especially since Gendry had a friendship with Arya and no relationship with Robert to speak of, so why not mention her? I don't understand why Gendry wouldn't have mentioned Arya if he wanted to make fast friends with Jon, since it would have been an easy way to win over Jon, unless of course D&D are not so subtly trying to tamp down the Arya/Gendry shippers' expectations.

 

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I wonder if we can now keep track of the timeline using Cersei's pregnancy...

That's assuming the show won't play fast and loose with the timeline.

According to Lads, Cersei was supposed to miscarry in 7x07, but Frikidoctor has been insistent that there's no such scene in 7x07. Maybe Cersei's miscarriage got bumped to next season to parallel Dany learning of her miracle pregnancy (as I assume she'll get knocked up) at the same time as Cersei miscarries? 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

32 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno. Tyrion brought up Sansa to Jon right off the bat, despite the awkwardness. Gendry mentioning Arya would have made far more sense than forging a bond based on their dads, especially since Gendry had a friendship with Arya and no relationship with Robert to speak of, so why not mention her? I don't understand why Gendry wouldn't have mentioned Arya if he wanted to make fast friends with Jon, since it would have been an easy way to win over Jon, unless of course D&D are not so subtly trying to tamp down the Arya/Gendry shippers' expectations.

The Gendry/Jon conversation about fathers was a *wink*wink*nudge*nudge* for me and a reminder that while Robert and Ned were BFFs, Robert killed Jon's biological father and kept on hating him well after the man was dead. 

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According to Lads, Cersei was supposed to miscarry in 7x07, but Frikidoctor has been insistent that there's no such scene in 7x07. Maybe Cersei's miscarriage got bumped to next season to parallel Dany learning of her miracle pregnancy (as I assume she'll get knocked up) at the same time as Cersei miscarries? 

I hope she's lying about being pregnant. The whole thing came right on the heels of Jaime telling her that they can't win this war, and she closes the whole thing by warning him about betraying her. That whole conversation smacked of manipulation.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

I dunno. Tyrion brought up Sansa to Jon right off the bat, despite the awkwardness. Gendry mentioning Arya would have made far more sense than forging a bond based on their dads, especially since Gendry had a friendship with Arya and no relationship with Robert to speak of, so why not mention her? I don't understand why Gendry wouldn't have mentioned Arya if he wanted to make fast friends with Jon, since it would have been an easy way to win over Jon, unless of course D&D are not so subtly trying to tamp down the Arya/Gendry shippers' expectations.

Maybe because it was important to establish that the Sansa-Tyrion marriage is no longer on the table. Tyrion and Theon are more important characters than Gendry. As I mentioned earlier, I think the show is just living in the moment - they wanted to have Jon and Gendry bond over Ned-Robert being bros with some fun comments and call backs.  They are all about the bro relationships - hey, lets have a wight hunt plot to get these cool dudes fighting together. All those guys gathered there - Hound, Thoros, Beric, Gendry - they all knew Arya. Their story revolved around her. They were side characters in her story and yet no one brings her up to Jon. It's not about tamping down Arya/Gendry expectations, it's that they just don't care. Just like Jon/Dany not discussing Aemon - a person they have in common over whom they can bond.

Gendry mentioning Arya makes things complicated and would require a longer a more conversation, which the show does not have time for or does not care about - look at Jon's one second reaction to news of Arya living.  BTW, I thought Sansa informed him last season that she was alive and that Brienne had met her? Maybe the showrunners forgot that as well.

I think the last we see of Gendry this season, is him running back to Eastwatch and sending Dany ravens right? I am also not clear if the wall is coming down at Eastwatch, which is where the NK was headed, or at Castle Black.

Edited August 15, 2017 by anamika

[DangerousTangerine]

I've noticed people criticizing Kit for Jon's lack of reaction to Arya and Bran being alive, but it's obvious from the dialogue that his direction was to not display a happy reaction. As soon as he announced that they were alive, Daenerys said she was happy for him and she noted that he didn't look happy. They wouldn't have written that if they wanted him to be happy.  Clearly, the direction was to not look happy. I think the point was to convey the urgency of the rest of the message. If all the message included was an update on Arya and Bran, he probably would have. But the rest of the message was dire.

Edited August 15, 2017 by DangerousTangerine

[sacrebleu]

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The fact that Jon initiates sex with Dany in 7x07 is proof enough that he's in love with her, in my opinion, since Jon's not the type to do that unless very deep feelings are involved, 

Which makes me laugh at the irony-- because didn't he have a big speech on the way to the Wall about how he wasn't going to ever have sex because he didn't know who his mother was, and didn't want to risk sleeping with a possible sister? Now, the first non-wildling he sleeps with turns out to be his aunt.

 

The boy's gonna need therapy.

[screamin]

20 minutes ago, DangerousTangerine said:

I've noticed people criticizing Kit for Jon's lack of reaction to Arya and Bran being alive, but it's obvious from the dialogue that his direction was to not display a happy reaction. As soon as he announced that they were alive, Daenerys said she was happy for him and she noted that he didn't look happy. They wouldn't have written that if they wanted him to be happy.  Clearly, the direction was to not look happy. I think the point was to convey the urgency of the rest of the message. If all the message included was an update on Arya and Bran, he probably would have. But the rest of the message was dire.

Seems a bit weird that they could write from WF that Bran is alive but he's also got infallible powers of clairvoyance, and write this believably enough that Jon's joy is entirely superceded by his worry over Bran's predictions - and write all that on a tiny piece of paper small enough to tie to the ankle of a raven.

[DangerousTangerine]

21 minutes ago, screamin said:

Seems a bit weird that they could write from WF that Bran is alive but he's also got infallible powers of clairvoyance, and write this believably enough that Jon's joy is entirely superceded by his worry over Bran's predictions - and write all that on a tiny piece of paper small enough to tie to the ankle of a raven.

It seems to me that all they had to write was that Bran was a warg. Jon is quite familiar with them and knows their powers are real.

[screamin]

Just now, DangerousTangerine said:

It seems to me that all they had to write was that Bran was a warg. Jon is quite familiar with them and knows their powers are real.

Jon is a warg himself and can't foretell the future, and as far as I know he didn't meet a warg who could. So it still seems to me that required more explanation than can be compassed in a sheet of paper smaller than a chocolate bar.

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, screamin said:

Jon is a warg himself and can't foretell the future, and as far as I know he didn't meet a warg who could. So it still seems to me that required more explanation than can be compassed in a sheet of paper smaller than a chocolate bar.

He was brought back from the dead, would it be a leap for him to believe that Bran had all these abilities?

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Maybe because it was important to establish that the Sansa-Tyrion marriage is no longer on the table. Tyrion and Theon are more important characters than Gendry. As I mentioned earlier, I think the show is just living in the moment - they wanted to have Jon and Gendry bond over Ned-Robert being bros with some fun comments and call backs.  They are all about the bro relationships - hey, lets have a wight hunt plot to get these cool dudes fighting together. All those guys gathered there - Hound, Thoros, Beric, Gendry - they all knew Arya. Their story revolved around her. They were side characters in her story and yet no one brings her up to Jon. It's not about tamping down Arya/Gendry expectations, it's that they just don't care.

The poster to whom I was responding suggested that Gendry didn't mention Arya because there was no time for small talk, but Tyrion brought up Sansa to Jon during their small talk so that's not the reason Gendry didn't mention her.

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Gendry mentioning Arya makes things complicated and would require a longer a more conversation

Would it? "I know your sister Arya. I traveled with her in the Riverlands years ago for a time when we were on the run. She helped me then, so let me help you now blah blah blah." Done.

Quote

BTW, I thought Sansa informed him last season that she was alive and that Brienne had met her? Maybe the showrunners forgot that as well.

It's not clear that Sansa did, but even assuming that she did, Jon knows that Brienne last saw Arya years before. It would be perfectly reasonable for Jon to assume that Arya was dead, since no one had heard of her since.

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I think the last we see of Gendry this season, is him running back to Eastwatch and sending Dany ravens right? I am also not clear if the wall is coming down at Eastwatch, which is where the NK was headed, or at Castle Black.

Apparently, it's Tormund we see running for his life when the Wall comes down, so I think it's Eastwatch. Frikidoctor said Beric is there as well. Gendry and Beric are absent from the dragonpit scene.

[screamin]

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He was brought back from the dead, would it be a leap for him to believe that Bran had all these abilities?

I'm not disputing Jon's credulousness, I'm disputing the size of that piece of paper.  :)

Honestly, this last episode, with the armor-clad scuba diving of Bronn and Jaime, Tyrion prancing around in front of two Gold Cloaks, basically going "look at me! I'm a wanted man!", and various other pleasant assaults on my suspension of disbelief, has me sulkily picking holes in the plot wherever it's easy to do (and that's too many places).

Edited August 15, 2017 by screamin

[YaddaYadda]

22 minutes ago, screamin said:

I'm not disputing Jon's credulousness, I'm disputing the size of that piece of paper.  :)

Honestly, this last episode, with the armor-clad scuba diving of Bronn and Jaime, Tyrion prancing around in front of two Gold Cloaks, basically going "look at me! I'm a wanted man!", and various other pleasant assaults on my suspension of disbelief, has me sulkily picking holes in the plot wherever it's easy to do (and that's too many places).

Well we did need a bunch of "zomg!" with Gendry swinging his warhammer. Tyrion had to become stupid for that to happen because plot over character. 

[Oscirus]

31 minutes ago, screamin said:

I'm not disputing Jon's credulousness, I'm disputing the size of that piece of paper.  :)

Honestly, this last episode, with the armor-clad scuba diving of Bronn and Jaime, Tyrion prancing around in front of two Gold Cloaks, basically going "look at me! I'm a wanted man!", and various other pleasant assaults on my suspension of disbelief, has me sulkily picking holes in the plot wherever it's easy to do (and that's too many places).

And smuggling somone in the middle of the day.  I don't imagine that's smart either. Now they're just  forcing things to happen for omg moments

[Inquiry]

So, I'm pretty sure that Dany will see Jon's scars in the next episode when he's convalescing after the wight hunt. It will be after she loses Viserion and she will see that he literally took a knife in the heart for his people, which is what she's experiencing figuratively. It's obvious that they're saving the reveal so it will have more of an emotional impact. In the outlines, the Red Priestess tells Dany straight up that Jon was brought back to life and in episode 5 she was supposed to tease him about it. Instead, we got her inquiring about it and Jon being evasive before he was saved by the arrival of Jorah. If it doesn't happen at the end of episode 6 then it will probably be shown when they have sex, but Dany discovering it not long after Viserion's death would make much more narrative sense.  

[Edith]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

The poster to whom I was responding suggested that Gendry didn't mention Arya because there was no time for small talk, but Tyrion brought up Sansa to Jon during their small talk so that's not the reason Gendry didn't mention her.

Would it? "I know your sister Arya. I traveled with her in the Riverlands years ago for a time when we were on the run. She helped me then, so let me help you now blah blah blah." Done.

Agree! I don't understand why this conversations are not happening.

Also I'm not expecting Jon to even mention Uncle Benjen after wight hunt. Friki said that the scene between Jon and Dany after is not that much longer that the page script Lads2 published.  

There's a big distinction between Dany's reaction to Jorah offering to catch the wight and her reaction to Jon. A distinction, I'm sure, will be even bigger next episode when she risks her three dragons for him...

Also I'm glad that while the wight hunt is a stupid idea from Tyrion, Jon is doing it for both queens and not only for Cersei as believed when the first leaks came out.  

1 hour ago, Inquiry said:

So, I'm pretty sure that Dany will see Jon's scars in the next episode when he's convalescing after the wight hunt. It will be after she loses Viserion and she will see that he literally took a knife in the heart for his people, which is what she's experiencing figuratively. It's obvious that they're saving the reveal so it will have more of an emotional impact. In the outlines, the Red Priestess tells Dany straight up that Jon was brought back to life and in episode 5 she was supposed to tease him about it. Instead, we got her inquiring about it and Jon being evasive before he was saved by the arrival of Jorah. If it doesn't happen at the end of episode 6 then it will probably be shown when they have sex, but Dany discovering it not long after Viserion's death would make much more narrative sense.  

She won't. Someone asked  friki this and he said that Jon has something covering up his scars. So there would be no conversation about that.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Edith

[domina89]

5 hours ago, doram said:

Jon was also on that cliff edge, watching and waiting for her but I for one, didn't realize it until much later that that's the only explanation for why he happened to be there, and not at the mines. A little interjection in the conversation to point that out would have been nice.

His hands/fingernails were grungy, too, which I took to mean he had been in the mines at some point earlier, but must have decided to come out and look for her.  Or maybe he just needed some fresh air.  Lol

4 hours ago, anamika said:

As for Ghost, I would rather he be off screen and alive rather than make an appearance and get killed off for the CGI dragon budget. In my fictional world, he and Nymeria are happily frolicking in the snow having a good time.

Amen

14 hours ago, Eyes High said:

The fact that Jon initiates sex with Dany in 7x07 is proof enough that he's in love with her, in my opinion, since Jon's not the type to do that unless very deep feelings are involved, nor is he the type to engage in a FWB arrangement. He may not be in love with her yet as of 7x05, but he's very interested. As he impatiently told Davos, though, "There's no time for that." For Jon, there's no time for anything except the NK, not even for a sigh of relief that Arya and Bran are alive.

Personally I think Jon has changed since he "died."  I think he realizes this life is it now and he's willing to be bold and do things he may not have dared to do before.  He may be attracted to Dany, but I'm not sure I buy that it is actual love and not just lust by 7x07.  I also think he has gained a ton of confidence, especially since being elected KITN and you can see that come out in his dealings with others, with Drogon, and especially with Dany.  He has truly embraced and accepted who he is, and that's going to make it all the more powerful when he finds out his true identity and his world comes crashing down around him.

[Inquiry]

31 minutes ago, Edith said:

She won't. Someone ask friki this and he said that Jon has something covering up his scars. So there would be no conversation about that.

Isn't that based off the outline though? In the outline, there's no need for Dany to see the scars because it's already been addressed. In the show, though, there's only been oblique references (Davos being cut off, Tyrion saying Northerners tend to exaggerate, Jon trying to wave it off but not outright denying) usually spurred by Dany bringing it up. There has to be a reason for that. I'll be very disappointed if it's revealed in the boat sex montage, especially if it's just a shot of Dany seeing it, giving Jon a look, and then kissing it or some shit. It would have so much more weight and be more thematically satisfying if she sees it just shortly after losing Viserion.  

[Edith]

22 hours ago, Inquiry said:

Isn't that based off the outline though? In the outline, there's no need for Dany to see the scars because it's already been addressed. In the show, though, there's only been oblique references (Davos being cut off, Tyrion saying Northerners tend to exaggerate, Jon trying to wave it off but not outright denying) usually spurred by Dany bringing it up. There has to be a reason for that. I'll be very disappointed if it's revealed in the boat sex montage, especially if it's just a shot of Dany seeing it, giving Jon a look, and then kissing it or some shit. It would have so much more weight and be more thematically satisfying if she sees it just shortly after losing Viserion.  

No, friki is basing his spoilers from the episodes itself even though he doesn't say it.

If Dany notice or realize something I guess we will find what she thinks about that next season. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Edith

[Inquiry]

Hmm. Well, I guess we'll see. It should, at the very least, be somewhat referenced in the sex scene though. The stab scars don't have to look different; it's a knife sized scar over his heart! That should be enough for anyone to wonder, but I could live with it not being brought up if Dany was oblivious to the circumstances. Given what Dany's been told, however, I think it would be tremendously shitty writing for it to be completely ignored until next season. 

[Edith]

7 minutes ago, doram said:

Friki's synopsis of the Dany/Jon conversation last Sunday was way off.

No it wasn't. Maybe a lot of things get lost in translation or people failed to understand his way of telling the story, but he said they would talk about dragons, Jon saying they were Beasts and Dany saying they are my children. Also that she would ask about the stab through the heart, even Jon answer, etc.

He doesn't spoil everything. He just give enough details that shows he knows.

For example he said about Arya's comment about liking pretty things or Jon/Gendry interactions completely.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Edith

[TarotQueen]

3 hours ago, DangerousTangerine said:

I've noticed people criticizing Kit for Jon's lack of reaction to Arya and Bran being alive, but it's obvious from the dialogue that his direction was to not display a happy reaction. As soon as he announced that they were alive, Daenerys said she was happy for him and she noted that he didn't look happy. They wouldn't have written that if they wanted him to be happy.  Clearly, the direction was to not look happy. I think the point was to convey the urgency of the rest of the message. If all the message included was an update on Arya and Bran, he probably would have. But the rest of the message was dire.

My interpretation on his dourness went even a step further.  Voice:  'I thought Arya was dead.  I thought Bran was dead.'  Thought:  'and now I know they arent and thats just two more people I'm terrified for if I cant find a way to beat the WW.'

[domina89]

8 minutes ago, TarotQueen said:

My interpretation on his dourness went even a step further.  Voice:  'I thought Arya was dead.  I thought Bran was dead.'  Thought:  'and now I know they arent and thats just two more people I'm terrified for if I cant find a way to beat the WW.'

That's EXACTLY how I interpreted that scene as well.  I think it is just fear and reacting to the additional pressure that is now on him.

[Spartan Girl]

So other than Viserion, is anyone else going to die in the next episode? We have a ton of big characters -- Jon, Gendry, the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, and Davos -- all going to capture the wight. This is GOT, there ain't no way they're all escaping unscathed...

[glowbug]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So other than Viserion, is anyone else going to die in the next episode? We have a ton of big characters -- Jon, Gendry, the Hound, Tormund, Jorah, and Davos -- all going to capture the wight. This is GOT, there ain't no way they're all escaping unscathed...

Thoros Beric and Benjen are the only two other deaths I can recall. Well, in Benjen's case he's already dead but he's going to stop being animated.

Edited August 16, 2017 by glowbug

[Keener]

7 hours ago, sacrebleu said:

Which makes me laugh at the irony-- because didn't he have a big speech on the way to the Wall about how he wasn't going to ever have sex because he didn't know who his mother was, and didn't want to risk sleeping with a possible sister? Now, the first non-wildling he sleeps with turns out to be his aunt.

 

The boy's gonna need therapy.

I've been rewatching S1 so this is relatively fresh in my mind. He tells Sam that he had a chance with a prostitute but chickened out because he was worried that he might father a child and he didn't want to risk bringing a child into the world who was a bastard like him. He said something to the effect that he didn't want to put that burden onto a child so he just abstained. I don't recall him saying he was afraid of getting with a relative but it's possible that may have also been mentioned. I specifically remember the part about fathering a bastard child though in part because I'd realized that in having sex with Ygritte, while he was certainly playing a part, he likely had genuine feelings for her and was satisfied that he if she did become with child they would raise the child together regardless.  Mind you, his initial hesitancy might've been born out of being young kid who was just scared to check that box.  We haven't really seen him around any potential female partners outside of Ygritte in a long, long time. 

[Eyes High]

7x06 aired in Spain accidentally a few days early (per AFAGA23's Instagram). Leaks may be forthcoming soon. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

Cool! I look forward to the leaks although Viserion's death will crush me.

[Eyes High]

18 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Cool! I look forward to the leaks although Viserion's death will crush me.

Sounds from the chatter from those watching it at /Freefolk that Lads' leaks are pretty much confirmed: RIP Thoros, RIP Benjen, RIP Viserion, Dany to the rescue (in a banging white outfit, apparently), Jon left behind by Dany and saved by Benjen, Jon/Jorah conversation about Longclaw, etc. etc.

Also, Jon and Dany apparently hold hands in their post-battle scene.

Looks like Frikidoctor was right about Sansa finding Arya's bag of faces, as well. Summary of the scene from /breakfastbenedict at /Freefolk:

Quote

Sansa snooped in Arya's room, found her face bag and questions Arya about what it is. Arya tells her about the faceless men in Braavos, then rather creepily threatens her and asks her if she believes Jon should be King or she wants it for herself. Then Arya says she wonders what it'd be like to wear Sansa's face... takes out her dagger moves closer and... doesn't do anything.

I know all this is smoothed over by the end of the season, but Jesus Christ, Arya.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

The show is over the top with Arya. Poor Viserion. Poor Dany. I hope Jon is freaking grateful.

[glowbug]

6 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The show is over the top with Arya. Poor Viserion. Poor Dany. I hope Jon is freaking grateful.

According to the spoilers he is. He finally bends the knee and then later they have boatsex.