Flip Or Flop - General Discussion

[OnTime]

Why is this show even called Flip or "Flop"? 

Every episode is the same. 

Oh, we went over budget, the comps are less than what we can sell to break even, lets list it for 75K more than the comps, we got multiple offers over list and made 99K. Time to find another house to flip.

When was the last time they had a flop?

Edited November 1, 2019 by OnTime

[doodlebug]

12 hours ago, OnTime said:

Why is this show even called Flip or "Flop"? 

Every episode is the same. 

Oh, we went over budget, the comps are less than what we can sell to break even, let's list it for 75K more than the comps, we got multiple offers over list and made 99K. Time to find another house to flip.

When was the last time they had a flop?

There were a couple of flops in the early seasons, but it has been a long, long time.  I do, however, remember someone doing a little detective work and discovering that we were often not told the truth.  They found multiple houses that were not sold by the time the show aired even though we were told that they had and also many houses that sold for less than the price the show quoted.  We also used to be told that a house was still on the market every now and then and that doesn't happen nowadays.  California is a really good sellers' market, but I find it hard to believe that everything T&C put on the market is snapped right up.

[CrazyInAlabama]

The first few seasons they had quite a few flops.   I think mostly because the houses were in terrible shape, some needed massive amounts of foundation, plumbing, electrical, etc. work, and weren't in the best neighborhoods.    I'm sure the actual 'profits' now are very slim, because houses have really gone up in price, there's a ton of competition for foreclosures, and really awful houses that are cash only.     My understanding is that you can't get conventional financing for the houses that are falling apart.  

The follow up shows they did on a few of the early season episodes where T & C visited the homes to see what they looked like now gave the real information on profit or not.  

Edited November 1, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[iMonrey]

HGTV does not want to portray any of the flips as flops. We found out in the re-visit episodes that some of the sales that had been portrayed as profit were indeed losses. But HGTV has a vested interest in promoting flips as profitable because they are largely supported by stores like Home Depot and Lowes, and they want their audience to remodel. 

Quote

More and more Tarek, talks as if this is his show, I’m sure he wishes this was so.  I think Christina brings in the viewers.  Until he created his new cooler, friendlier, silly personality, he had none. 

Disagree. I think the couple itself was the initial draw when this show first started. They were both young, attractive, and had a cute kid. They seemed to be struggling a bit financially. You could relate and root for them. Now? Not so much. 

I think Christina comes off far worse than Tarek does now. She's the one who cheated on him when they were married. Her new show is a vanity piece for her to show off her luxurious mansion and "design business." Her hair extensions change length from scene to scene. If she wore anymore makeup or designer clothes you could hang her on the Louvre. She's absurd. 

[topanga]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

Disagree. I think the couple itself was the initial draw when this show first started. They were both young, attractive, and had a cute kid. They seemed to be struggling a bit financially. You could relate and root for them. Now? Not so much. 

I think Christina comes off far worse than Tarek does now. She's the one who cheated on him when they were married. Her new show is a vanity piece for her to show off her luxurious mansion and "design business." Her hair extensions change length from scene to scene. If she wore anymore makeup or designer clothes you could hang her on the Louvre. She's absurd. 

They're both pretty insufferable these days, IMO. I agree with your take on the early seasons--I rooted for this young, attractive couple that had to live in his parents' garage after the housing crisis, and now they're working hard to regain their financial footing.  

These day they both come across as entitled, impulsive with their spending, selfish, and sometimes mean to one another. I don't know why I keep watching, but I do. 

[OnTime]

20 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

If she wore anymore makeup or designer clothes you could hang her on the Louvre. She's absurd. 

I really laugh when she wears sky high heals to walk through a disgusting foreclosure or construction zone!

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, OnTime said:

I really laugh when she wears sky high heals to walk through a disgusting foreclosure or construction zone!

Not just sky high heels, but designer ones at that!  The shoes she wears on the show are all fancy name brands where the cheap ones start around 600 bucks a pair.

[mojito]

Quote

The first few seasons they had quite a few flops. 

I only recall one show that used the "Flop" stamp at the end. That's not to say there was only one, but it is to say that I think there were very, very few that were officially stamped a flop. I remember some where the house was still on the market or the potential buyer's financing didn't come through. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

The few follow up shows where they went to visit some of their first flips had more information about flops.    The big hoarded split level with the chickens in the back yard was a flop.  

Also, I don't think they said anything was a flop at the time, only in follow up shows, or in interviews.     

The series of summer shows where they did the all kinds of pools, outdoor kitchens, fire pits, and concentrated on the back yards, were all super expensive homes.   I remember Tarek saying almost all were flops.   I bet HGTV paid extra for those shows though, to have  extra viewers in the summer, when most other shows were reruns.  

Last nights huge house was bizarre.    I hated the fireplace (it looked like they used odds and ends from other projects), the kitchen back splash was too small for the size of the kitchen.    The dining room looked small for the size of the kitchen and house.    I hated the tub in the shower room idea.   If I was shopping for a $1 million+ property, I would never buy one with a shared driveway.   

The other huge one in Yorba Linda that reran after the shared driveway house was awful from the front door to the back before they redid it.   The miss matched tile and flooring in the before was hideous.    Tarek was half right, the lower cabinets in the kitchen should have been refaced, and then get new uppers, and a new island with decent counter tops would have saved a lot.  The original house was so much builder grade junk. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[ByaNose]

Big massive flip. I liked the kitchen but I didn’t like that dinning/kitchen was butt up against the island. They couldn’t even stage stools for the island. The bathroom was pretty cool. It was huge. I didn’t like the fireplace tile or hearth. They didn’t go together and looked cheap. The outside looked a lot better after the removal of the huge tree, new driveway & roofing. 

[topanga]

On 11/14/2019 at 11:19 PM, ByaNose said:

Big massive flip. I liked the kitchen but I didn’t like that dinning/kitchen was butt up against the island. They couldn’t even stage stools for the island. The bathroom was pretty cool. It was huge. I didn’t like the fireplace tile or hearth. They didn’t go together and looked cheap. The outside looked a lot better after the removal of the huge tree, new driveway & roofing. 

Agreed. The house looked great on the outside. I wasn’t as impressed with the I side. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Last night's house was interesting.   I can't imagine buying a flip for $900k, putting a minimum of $100k reno into it, and know that the comps at the beginning are only $1.1 mil.    I didn't like the $1.4 comp at all, I didn't think it looked high end, just over done.    I hate the mixed metal finishes too.   $169k rehab?   That's crazy, and Tarek needs to remember, on the market doesn't mean it's going to sell for that price.   In a super expensive house, like this one, why do some open shelves in the kitchen?  I didn't like the kitchen back splash at all.    I'm not surprised that with five other homes in the same subdivision for sale, that Tarek's, and the $1.4 million competition didn't sell, and I bet this one will be a flop.  

My guess is Tarek knew about the $1.4 flip that didn't sell, before he bought the nasty smelling house for $900k, and his wowing about it was just for the show. 

I saw the rerun from this season in Fullerton (the episode Tarek's mom was on, great tip about the driveway oil stain removal), and liked what he did to the house.   However, I would never buy that house, with the surrounding properties, the fence next to the run off ditch, and Izzy pointing out the large amount of graffitti (Spelling?) behind the house.      I did enjoy the Tarek, and Izzy relationship.

I finally caught the end of the one with the bee hive in the huge vine in the backyard, with Jeff the contractor.    The vine, or whatever it was, was bizarre.  

Edited November 23, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[Grrarrggh]

4 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

 I didn't like the $1.4 comp at all, I didn't think it looked high end, just over done.  

Thank you! I was shocked at how wowed he was by it. 

[ByaNose]

I didn’t like the fireplace. It didn’t even have a mantle. Where are you supposed to hang your stocking? The kitchen & backyard turned out nice. The staircase railings were a big improvement. Of course, it’s California so it had the outrageous price. Crazy money! 

[iMonrey]

There was an overhead shot of the neighborhood and it looked like they were somewhere near water. I wondered if maybe they were near the ocean which is why the homes were so expensive. I'm used to the ridiculous price of housing in SoCal but over 1 million in what looks to be an ordinary suburban neighborhood was surprising.

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

There was an overhead shot of the neighborhood and it looked like they were somewhere near water. I wondered if maybe they were near the ocean which is why the homes were so expensive. I'm used to the ridiculous price of housing in SoCal but over 1 million in what looks to be an ordinary suburban neighborhood was surprising.

With ugly orange & yellow clay roofing. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

That ugly clay tile roof is better than the wooden ones some of the houses have, in case of a fire.        You know the expensive flip was a flop, when realtor . com has an article saying how bad the design was on that house, and if the new designer should be blamed.     

I didn't see why they had to use that hideously expensive tile on the fireplace.    There must have been similar look tile that was cheaper.    I hate dark bathroom tile and fixtures, since water spots, and minerals will show, and anything else will show too.     

Good point about the idea of spending $30k on a back yard.   Just run a gas hookup (if gas is already available in a nearby room) for a future BBQ or outdoor kitchen, put in a big concrete patio, and call it a day.  I think the backyard/pool contractor is Jesse. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[ByaNose]

On 11/24/2019 at 5:07 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

That ugly clay tile roof is better than the wooden ones some of the houses have, in case of a fire.        You know the expensive flip was a flop, when realtor . com has an article saying how bad the design was on that house, and if the new designer should be blamed.     

I didn't see why they had to use that hideously expensive tile on the fireplace.    There must have been similar look tile that was cheaper.    I hate dark bathroom tile and fixtures, since water spots, and mineral will show, and anything else will show too.    

I also forgot about the expensive backyard. I think Tarek got the guy (who has been on many times) down from $35,000 to $30,000. That was $30,000 Tarek could have saved.

Edited November 26, 2019 by ByaNose

[iMonrey]

Quote

I didn't see why they had to use that hideously expensive tile on the fireplace.    There must have been similar look tile that was cheaper.

Maybe it looked better in real life but on TV it looked very stark and plain. More expensive doesn't always mean better looking. 

Historically T&C have not done well with houses in the 1 million dollar range. The other one I remember was the big house with the giant wrought iron front doors they added. It was depicted as a successful flip in the episode itself but in one of their follow-up shows they admitted to losing money on it. They should stick to lower priced houses that are more in demand.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I remember the wrought iron front door episode from the first season or so.    It was a big flop.   If I remember correctly it was the first time they had a 'hard money' loan, that was from a private loan source, and really expensive.    I think that they overspent on the remodel, but also the fact that the carrying costs killed any profit. 

[topanga]

Mirrored tiles on the fireplace? I think T & C are just doing the craziest shit they can get away with at this point. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

I agree, leaving the mirror tiles looked tacky.    That fireplace would have been so much better with a nice patterned tile.   Maybe an arabesque shape tile?     Either way it would have been very easy to take the old mirror tiles off.  

Oops!  Then it's even worse that the mirror tiles were picked.   It was bad enough when I thought they cheaped out and left older ones, but wasting time and effort for those tiles was ridiculous. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by CrazyInAlabama

[doodlebug]

22 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I agree, leaving the mirror tiles looked tacky.    That fireplace would have been so much better with a nice patterned tile.   Maybe an arabesque shape tile?     Either way it would have been very easy to take the old mirror tiles off.  

The mirrored tiles weren't left, Christina picked them out and had them put on the fireplace in lieu of something better like actual fireplace tiles.  They were new, although distressed to look older. But, they did nothing for that fireplace except make it ugly.  It looked far better before she laid her hands on it.  As usual, her design skills are lacking.

[Jeanne222]

It seems to me Tarek is contractor and designer.  He finds the houses, figures out structural changes.  Does a lot of the manual work then he's a yes or no to a few tiles Christina drags in.

He runs the numbers and lately he's also in charge of the outside.

I hope this is not a 50/50 deal.  Tarek should get any money made on the flip and they both get a paycheck from the network for appearing!

[doodlebug]

15 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

It seems to me Tarek is contractor and designer.  He finds the houses, figures out structural changes.  Does a lot of the manual work then he's a yes or no to a few tiles Christina drags in.

He runs the numbers and lately he's also in charge of the outside.

I hope this is not a 50/50 deal.  Tarek should get any money made on the flip and they both get a paycheck from the network for appearing!

I think the whole thing is fabricated for the show.  Tarek and Christina have multiple employees in their business including people who find the flips and purchase them as well as their own designers and contractors.  While they may have been more 'hands-on' in the early days, they now have employees who can carry out virtually every aspect of the flip.

If you watch Tarek while he's doing stuff like setting tile, he is not doing a very good job and I suspect he does very little of the work himself.  When it comes to Christina's designs, they use the very same materials in house after house with little variation.  I suspect that they've got a warehouse full of tile and cabinets, etc as well as a template for how to combine them and they follow a simple algorithm in deciding which materials to use in which house.

TLC is paying them to appear on the show and film the scenes as they're written.  Christina seems to be the more recognizable of the pair and she may be paid more than Tarek.

As far as how they split the profit from their flips; that is up to them; but I would not use their division of labor on the show to judge who is working harder.

Edited December 14, 2019 by doodlebug

[chessiegal]

1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

TLC is paying them to appear on the show and film the scenes as they're written. 

This show is not on TLC, it's on HGTV. The network doesn't write the show, the production company, Pie Town Productions, has people who do that.

[edie3]

On 10/31/2019 at 11:16 PM, OnTime said:

Every episode is the same. 

Tarik rolls his eyes and Christina screams at least once!

[Night Cheese]

17 hours ago, edie3 said:

Tarik rolls his eyes and Christina screams at least once!

They argue about the design, but ultimately end up with the same white shaker cabinets, marble countertop, and some variation of grey/white backsplash.

[topanga]

6 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

They argue about the design, but ultimately end up with the same white shaker cabinets, marble countertop, and some variation of grey/white backsplash.

And usually a grey and white exterior 

[lynxfx]

One thing they always ignore design-wise is doing something upscale with the countertops. It is always that same builder grade quartz or marble with zero character. Most of the time you can't even tell that there is any marbling at all. They only change up the backsplash and even that is a rotated selection of tiles they reuse. That is one aspect of the Vegas version that was fun. They would show them at the quarry yard looking at different slabs and picking out more unique pieces including leftovers from casino remodels.

Surprised at how many episodes we are getting this season. 18 so far.

[iMonrey]

I honestly can't tell which episodes are new and which are just repurposed reruns. HGTV and other networks are getting really clever about tricking DVRs into recording shows that are actually repackaged reruns. But some of the last few houses I did not remember, like this one that Tarek went to check on at night and heard noises coming from inside. Did one of the crew actually leave the sliding glass door wide open? Wow. 

Throwing in interview segments with T&C and adding pop-up "tips" from them doesn't make the show any less stale. I'm so tired of the same conversations every single episode. Is this a load bearing wall? We can't afford to take down this wall. But we have to take down this wall. Oh well I guess we will have to spend the money. Oh, the suspense!

Why don't they give us some actual behind the scenes info like who works for them and who finds these houses and so forth. They need to stop pretending they have such hands-on involvement. 

And I can't believe HGTV greenlit another season of Christina on the Coast. Who the heck is that interested in her vapid life? Do we really need TWO shows with Christina looking at the exact same tile every single week?

[doodlebug]

On 12/14/2019 at 2:23 PM, chessiegal said:

This show is not on TLC, it's on HGTV. The network doesn't write the show, the production company, Pie Town Productions, has people who do that.

Ok, sorry for the most stake.However, it doesn’t change my point which is that the show is heavily scripted and doesn’t reflect the workings of their actual business.

[proserpina65]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 9:54 PM, GladysCravits said:

More and more Tarek, talks as if this is his show, I’m sure he wishes this was so.  I think Christina brings in the viewers.  Until he created his new cooler, friendlier, silly personality, he had none.  Every. once in a while, he slips and you can the  nasty old Tarek.  Among his many talents(😂), he now considers himself, designer extraordinaire.  Doesn’t really need Christina anymore.  However bad her designing skills may be, his are a thousand times worse.  He’s a moron.  

I'd gladly get rid of Christina since her design skills are no better than his, and I find her annoying as hell.  But then again, I kinda hate watch the show anyway.  I rarely like what they end up doing to the houses, although obviously anything would be an improvement on the condition of most of them.

[answerphone]

Really, has anyone ever purchased a home because they loved the unique tile in the shower insert/shampoo shelf? 🤣🤣

[Grrarrggh]

2 hours ago, answerphone said:

Really, has anyone ever purchased a home because they loved the unique tile in the shower insert/shampoo shelf? 🤣🤣

Sadly yes. And they probably think theirs is the only house that has ever had one. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

They showed a bunch of reruns this morning, and some are fun to see again.    The house that stinks, and it turns out there was a turkey left on the kitchen counter.

Then the $1 million + house where there were great views, but the giant brick wall with the fireplace blocked the view.    They took down the fire place/wall, and then it looked like a bowling alley.     I can't believe it sold for over a million dollars.  

[sheetmoss]

On 12/15/2019 at 9:40 PM, lynxfx said:

One thing they always ignore design-wise is doing something upscale with the countertops. It is always that same builder grade quartz or marble with zero character. Most of the time you can't even tell that there is any marbling at all. They only change up the backsplash and even that is a rotated selection of tiles they reuse. That is one aspect of the Vegas version that was fun. They would show them at the quarry yard looking at different slabs and picking out more unique pieces including leftovers from casino remodels.

Surprised at how many episodes we are getting this season. 18 so far.

Agree about the Vegas couple flippers,

I also appreciate Aubrey shopping the clearance rooms -getting deals on upscale appliances  and flooring.

    Most times  on Tarek & Christa's show,  a million dollar-ish home, you get a generic 30"stove and no refrigerator

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

Agree about the Vegas couple flippers,

I also appreciate Aubrey shopping the clearance rooms -getting deals on upscale appliances  and flooring.

    Most times  on Tarek & Christa's show,  a million dollar-ish home, you get a generic 30"stove and no refrigerator

I’ve always thought it was funny with all the money they make they don’t throw in a fridge. I know it’s apart of selling. You don’t have to but they spend all this money on their flips but skimp on free fridge. 

[chessiegal]

Whether a refrigerator conveys or not depends on the  area market you're in. I bought a new home in Georgia, where the refrigerator does not convey, so I had to buy one. When I moved to Maryland, we bought a flip, and it had a refrigerator because that's the  required standard. I look the Georgia refrigerator with me and we put it in the basement.

[ByaNose]

28 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Whether a refrigerator conveys or not depends on the  area market you're in. I bought a new home in Georgia, where the refrigerator does not convey, so I had to buy one. When I moved to Maryland, we bought a flip, and it had a refrigerator because that's the  required standard. I look the Georgia refrigerator with me and we put it in the basement.

The second fridge is always a keeper. It comes in so handy.

[mojito]

Quote

Throwing in interview segments with T&C and adding pop-up "tips" from them doesn't make the show any less stale.

I saw a tip that went something like, "A starter home is a good home for a first-time buyer." 

Profound.

[OnTime]

22 hours ago, sheetmoss said:

   Most times  on Tarek & Christa's show,  a million dollar-ish home, you get a generic 30"stove and no refrigerator

and don't forget the built in over the range microwave. They never put in wall ovens!!

Most houses in CA never have a fridge, why? Do people take the fridge with them when they sell?

[chessiegal]

21 minutes ago, OnTime said:

Most houses in CA never have a fridge, why? Do people take the fridge with them when they sell?

As I stated upthread, whether a fridge comes with the house depends on what the requirements are for the area. When I bought in Georgia, no fridge was required. Here in Maryland a home is expected to have a refrigerator.

[CruiseDiva]

44 minutes ago, OnTime said:

Most houses in CA never have a fridge, why? Do people take the fridge with them when they sell?

Not sure, but when I lived in California I had to provide my own fridge in the apartment I rented.

[CrazyInAlabama]

Years ago, my parents rented a house in San Diego, and Dad had to run out and buy a stove.  It wasn't just electric where you plug it in, and it's ready to go, but gas that had to be connected.     I think he had to buy a fridge too, because I know we moved both appliances, and they were put in a house they bought on the east coast.   

I was in an area of new builds, and some builders furnished the fridge, and some didn't.   My builder didn't because there are so many options, and they refused to do upgrades for anything.      The other builder only did one model of fridge, and it was a huge side-by-side model.      

Some remodelers, or builders also do a credit with an appliance store, so you can get a usual model from that store, and have the credit cover it.   Or you can get a fancier model, and the credit won't cover all of it.    

So just because they don't have a fridge included on the show, then it might be that Tarek gives the buyer a choice of fridge models, or a credit so you can get the fridge that you want.   

From now on, I wish that Tarek would flip with partners, and Christina would do her own show, and not F or F.    The snark that still flies between the two sometimes is irritating, not entertaining. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[Grrarrggh]

1 hour ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

From now on, I wish that Tarek would flip with partners, and Christina would do her own show, and not F or F.    The snark that still flies between the two sometimes is irritating, not entertaining. 

I wish neither of them would have a show. Once you've seen two of their "designs" you've seen them all. 

[meep.meep]

On 1/6/2020 at 11:24 AM, chessiegal said:

As I stated upthread, whether a fridge comes with the house depends on what the requirements are for the area. When I bought in Georgia, no fridge was required. Here in Maryland a home is expected to have a refrigerator.

In California, it depends on what you negotiate.  Some sellers don't want to supply one.  Then, the buyers can ask for a little off the price.  Most people don't want used appliances anyway - they want to start with brand new ones.  But there's no state law that says you have to have a refrigerator.

[iMonrey]

They did a couple of episodes without Christine and they were pretty good. I can't remember the name of the guy but the one with Tarek's friend was a nice change, having someone new who isn't so jaded and pushes Tarek to try new things. I remember the guy insisted on heated floors in the bathroom and Tarek finally broke down and agreed to it.

I agree the final designs tend to all look alike but if Tarek were to take on new partners and train new flippers it could be kind of interesting. I find him far less objectionable than Christine, especially when it's just him.

Christine, on the other hand, can go away and stay away any time now. I honestly don't see why HGTV considers her enough of a draw to do a whole new show with.

[CrazyInAlabama]

They're rerunning the one where Christina was on vacation, and the newby flipper is Robert Drenk.   He's the one that wanted heated bathroom floors.    I was kind of worried about him at the beginning, when the house turned out to be a hoarded out mess.  

In this house, I liked the idea of the white cabinets, with the blue island cabinets, but I think the color is too bright.   It doesn't coordinate with the back splash tile.    I do like the denim look hexagon bathroom floor tiles. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[iMonrey]

Quote

They're rerunning the one where Christina was on vacation, and the newby flipper is Robert Drenk.   He's the one that wanted heated bathroom floors. 

Yes! That was him. He was pretty easy on the eyes too. I say they dump Christine and just do a show with Tarek and Robert.