Flip Or Flop - General Discussion

[janegosford]

I always thought that was producer-directed drama.

It's absolutely possible that it's producer-manufactured drama but I will say, I live about 5 blocks away from that Whittier home and my grandmother actually lives like four houses down and I didn't know there were train tracks behind my grandma's house until a few months after she moved in. It's a seldom-used line covered by high fences. I could totally see someone not noticing the tracks.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Their little girl is so sweet.

 

Loved doing the large sliding doors to the backyard.  Good idea.  I liked most of the design choices as well, although the white cabinets are a cliché at this point.  Subway tile is cliché as well, but classic.  I did like that they did tile up the wall of the bathroom.

 

Can anyone explain to me WHY people rehab dumps like that one instead of just tearing them down and starting over?  Is it that much more money to tear it down?  Or does it have to do with the cost of designing a new house, getting approvals, etc.? 

[BBDi]

Their little girl is so sweet.

 

Loved doing the large sliding doors to the backyard.  Good idea.  I liked most of the design choices as well, although the white cabinets are a cliché at this point.  Subway tile is cliché as well, but classic.  I did like that they did tile up the wall of the bathroom.

 

Can anyone explain to me WHY people rehab dumps like that one instead of just tearing them down and starting over?  Is it that much more money to tear it down?  Or does it have to do with the cost of designing a new house, getting approvals, etc.? 

 

I am no expert, but I imagine that for flipping time is of the essence - you don't want to carry that financing and have your money tied up there any longer than you need to. And to take advantage of the current market and low interest rates. Plus, you're not trying to build a custom house to a particular person's specifications, you're aiming for something fairly generic. I'm sure permitting does play into as well. I would guess that flippers don't tear down unless they have to.

 

That said, I think there are lots of people who do buy in So Cal and tear down and start over. I see it all the time in my affluent So Cal hometown - in the part of town that once had more modest houses, lots of people have torn them down completely and built larger and nicer homes.

 

Also keep in mind that the lot sizes in So Cal are small and there often aren't a lot of options unless you build up, and I bet that involves a lot of hassle with permitting.

[auntjess]

 

Two take-aways from the new episode: that was the most disgusting house they've ever bought, and $429K for a three bedroom, one bathroom house with no garage is a hell of a lot of money.

Let's be blunt on this, it's almost a HALF-MILLION dollars, for one effin bathroom!

For all the money spent, and rearranging done, surely they could have fit a powder room in there.

And with the drought, I thought they might have some of that hardscape, or at least mention if the grass was drought resistant.

I saw no mention of a sprinkler system, but I thought most California houses had them.  Or so I was told, by someone who moved to MD and was horrified to learn that one usually watered and mowed one's own grass.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

am no expert, but I imagine that for flipping time is of the essence - you don't want to carry that financing and have your money tied up there any longer than you need to. And to take advantage of the current market and low interest rates. Plus, you're not trying to build a custom house to a particular person's specifications, you're aiming for something fairly generic. I'm sure permitting does play into as well. I would guess that flippers don't tear down unless they have to.

 

I get that.  But think about it:  bulldoze and take away the old house vs:  Oh, there's mold!  Need to rip all of that out.  Oh, there's asbestos!  Have to remediate!  Oh, we need to redo all the electrical and plumbing!

 

Then just put up an easy, generic, brand-new house.

[chessiegal]

Tarek says in the intro that some houses are complete tear downs. They do enough of this (they posted on FB recently that they flipped almost 90 houses last year) that they know when to tear down and when to renovate. Tearing down a house and building a new one would make for boring teevee. The renovations are more interesting. They seem to be doing quite well with this business, well enough that they've created their own construction and design company, so when I see them doing a flip, it obviously makes economic sense for that flip.

 

I enjoy the staging done by the companies they use. I have zero design sense.

[auntjess]

Chessiegal, HGTV is showing old episodes of Staged to Perfection, Wednesday 7:30 AM, ET.  Don't know for how long.
This is the one where the woman has a huge warehouse with high-end furniture.

[iMonrey]

 

Can anyone explain to me WHY people rehab dumps like that one instead of just tearing them down and starting over?  Is it that much more money to tear it down?  Or does it have to do with the cost of designing a new house, getting approvals, etc.?

 

To be fair, they pretty much did tear the house down - right down to the studs. New walls, ceilings, flooring, roofing, plumbing and electrical. The only thing they salvaged was the frame. And I imagine it's just more expedient to keep the existing frame if there's nothing wrong with it. They wouldn't gain anything by tearing that down too and rebuilding it - it's still going to be the same size house. Enlarging it would probably mean extra permits and such.

 

I'm dubious they ever do a "total tear-down." I think this house is pretty much as close as they get to that, aside from demolishing outbuildings or additions that were never permitted, which we've seen them do in that past.

[WildPlum]

I am not as big a fan of this show as some of the other HGTV shows, but one of the things it really IS good for is trend-watching. The houses are pretty much all redesigned to current market generic buyer. Toward the end of last season, Christina was saying that beige counters, beige paint and dark floors were old and tired and going into whites and grays and lighter floors.

 

Also interesting is how much cheaper things can be in large markets - frequently they walk through and say "all new custom kitchen cabinets" and "quartz countertops" the graphic pops up $5,000 for the cabinets and $4,000 for the counters. Huh, you can barely get builder-grade non-custom for that here. Two years ago I did quartz counters for my kitchen and it set me back about $7,000. I think they are getting very steep discounts from a supplier somewhere, rather than spreading their business around locally as they seem to do every show.

[chessiegal]

I follow Tarek and Christina on their Flip or Flop FB page. Last night they posted asking how people liked their new show? I was amused by the number of people dissing them for "firing" Izzy. And this morning I was even more amused at how the manufactured drama for a "reality" show can backfire, because they posted this on FB re: Izzy "firing" -

 

"We did not fire izzy. We just didn't use him for the remainder of the craftsman project. We continued to use him after this flip and still use him currently. Sorry if some people took this the wrong way. We use our own crew as well as a few other crews including Battres. We are growing like crazy and growth involves change. We are working hard on our growing business as well as making great shows. We [love]  our fans and Thanks for watching!"

 

I can't believe some people take things so literally. It's teevee - lol.

[Saylii]

I will say this: in the opening credits, they spliced two scenes together to make it look like Izzy was fired for tampering with the duct work in the basement. I don't know if that has anything to do with the backlash or if people just didn't really realize that was a joke between two men with fairly dry humor.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

Really liked this house and the end result.  Appreciated that the friend is more into restoration and trying to stay true (at least somewhat) to the character of the home.

 

OMG regarding the HVAC system and the disconnections and the cut duct work.  Did that happen after the guy bought the house?  Or were no inspections done?  I know these shows aren't "real", but that stuff drives me nuts.

[lizzy07]

 

Really liked this house and the end result.  Appreciated that the friend is more into restoration and trying to stay true (at least somewhat) to the character of the home.

 

Yes! And I can't BELIEVE that T&C wanted to rip out the built-ins in the living room area. WTF???? "Oh, let's erase the charm of this craftsman style home!" Duh. Glad the friend (what's his name) stood his ground on that.

[iMonrey]

They did erase most of the style of that house by opening up the walls and making it an open concept like every other new build in the world. And unless Izzy was prompted to say "You mean you're firing me?!?" then he brought that on himself. 

 

I'd be interested to know if California requires building inspection for buyers (not all states do). Even so, most of the houses they buy are being sold "as is" so they know whatever they're getting into is something they'll have to fix themselves.

[chessiegal]

I think of this show and others of the same genre as re-enactments of what happened, scripted for maximum entertainment, including some drama that may or may not have happened. This includes the Izzy "are you firing me?" and Tarek saying he was going to rip out those built-ins. No way - even a flipper should know you keep original features like that. They went to great lengths to learn about the mid-century modern they did to keep it close to the original intent.

[mojito]

I didn't get why Tarek and Christine partnered with Jessie. Just to do something with a friend? I didn't see the big payoff, even before the costs went sky high.

 

What is it with Tarek and his initial estimate of $20-30K reno budget? By now you'd think he'd start doubling that number.....

[iMonrey]

 

I think of this show and others of the same genre as re-enactments of what happened, scripted for maximum entertainment, including some drama that may or may not have happened.

 

Yeah. The thing this show has going for it, though, over House Hunters or Property Brothers is that we're actually seeing people do something they claim to be doing. In other words, Tarek and Christina, actually remodeling then flipping a house. Not pretending to shop around and pick from three houses. And we see the remodel in "real" time. On the other hand:

 

 

What is it with Tarek and his initial estimate of $20-30K reno budget? By now you'd think he'd start doubling that number.....

 

This is getting tiresome. They always end up spending at least twice their original estimate. I know they keep doing this for the sake of "drama" but if they go 2x over budget on every single property they flip it makes them look like idiots. They should know by now exactly how much a flip is going to cost going into it. We don't really need that "Oh noes! It's going to cost more!" melodrama every single episode. I'm content to simply watch the process of remodeling and rebuilding unfold on its own.

 

I'd also like to see a bit more realism on how many flips they have going at the same time and what it entails. The profits they make on some of their flips probably has to go towards losses on others. We're all grown ups here, we can take it. They don't need to candy-coat the flipping business for us and make it look like they cash out on every flip.

Edited April 16, 2015 by iMonrey

[chessiegal]

 

I think of this show and others of the same genre as re-enactments of what happened, scripted for maximum entertainment, including some drama that may or may not have happened.

 

 

Yeah. The thing this show has going for it, though, over House Hunters or Property Brothers is that we're actually seeing people do something they claim to be doing. In other words, Tarek and Christina, actually remodeling then flipping a house. Not pretending to shop around and pick from three houses. And we see the remodel in "real" time. On the other hand:

 

I agree. This is what Tarek and Christina do IRL to make a living. I'm still amused at the outrage of some folks on their FB page about them "firing" Izzy when it was clear they were just pulling him off that job (they confirmed on their FB page that is what happened).

[WildPlum]

Still, they idled Izzy and his crew for 2 days, presumably without pay, until the next job started. I wouldn't appreciate that either.

 

Although probably one of the better things I have seen Tarek do is - allegedly - replace about $1,000 of Izzy (and crew's) tools when one of the houses was broken in to and all the tools were stolen.

[Portia]

Let's be blunt on this, it's almost a HALF-MILLION dollars, for one effin bathroom!

For all the money spent, and rearranging done, surely they could have fit a powder room in there.

.

I'm with you; the one bathroom thing was madness. My tastes and means are modest, but I wouldn't buy a one bath house even if I were buying it only for myself.

As for the most recent episode, I enjoyed the change of pace of the Craftsman style reno, and I enjoyed Jessie's personality.

[huahaha]

When I refer to her as being fair complected I mean blonde hair, blue eyes, probably almost invisible eyelashes and eyebrows. Without any eye makeup, she could probably pass for a boy. People with dark hair and dark eyes can go without makeup and still have well defined eyes - fair haired people look washed out. I think she's very cognizant of being on camera for the show but she clearly doesn't care if people see her without makeup since she tweeted that pic herself.

 

Christina has brown eyes and dark eyebrows: http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-235414536/christinaelmoussa/photos/ig-892959351261030283_235414536. I'm assuming her hair is naturally brown as well, though she could have been a blonde as a child. She is obviously naturally gorgeous regardless, but I definitely don't think she'd be washed out without makeup and the fake tan.

Edited April 19, 2015 by huahaha

[iMonrey]

Here is Christina without makeup.

 

[huahaha]

That's a washed out, grainy selfie, though. I wouldn't judge anyone's looks based on a hospital picture.

[chessiegal]

If you're in the 'hood tomorrow, here's your chance to be on teevee,

 

From their FB page this evening:

 

If you are in the area and would like to meet us and be a part of an on-camera open house come by tomorrow between 230-4 pm! List price $450,000. Photos to follow...
HOUSE ADDRESS:
16712 FRANCISQUITO
LA PUENTE, CA 91744

 

 

[iMonrey]

The fact that she Tweeted that pic herself speaks to the fact that she's not overly obsessed with how she looks to the public and fans. It certainly proves she's perfectly fine leaving the house sans make-up so I maintain it's a thing she does for the show, whether it's her choice or the show's. It's easy to say "Oh, you look just fine without make-up" but the way women see themselves vs. the way others see them are two entirely different things.

 

This last house they did had such a weird layout I couldn't figure out what was going on with it. But I will say this is the first time I strongly disagreed with a design choice. I thought it was a mistake to do tile flooring in the kitchen and dark hardwood through the rest of the downstairs, especially with the kitchen opened up to the living space like that. They should have done the same flooring throughout, and if they thought it would be too dark against the dark cabinets they should have chosen lighter flooring, or lighter cabinets.

[huahaha]

Huh. I read that picture completely differently -- a very vulnerable moment of love after a scary surgery. I've seen Christina's tumblr (or maybe it was instagram), and she's always perfectly done up otherwise.

[auntjess]

I'm pretty sure  I saw them pouring self-leveling concrete on the floor, AFTER the cabinets were installed.

Again, lots of grass in a drought area, and from the front, the house looked like a shed.  It needed shutters, or somethng.

[ShellSeeker]

Hey guys,

 

There were quite a few posts in this thread talking about Christina's use of make-up, her selfie with a "naked" face, and so on. I've moved them over to the Small Talk thread. There's nothing wrong with any of those posts, since none of them are mean-spirited or unkind, but since they're not specifically episode related, they don't really belong on this thread. But feel free to continue the discussion over there. If anyone has any questions, feel free to shoot me a PM.

 

Thanks!

[tvchick]

Did anyone else see last night's episode?  In addition to the odd non-permitted (except for the bathroom) structure in the backyard, Tarek and Christina's SUV was stolen while they were looking at the work done inside the house.  The camera crew managed to get footage as the thieves took off down the street...very surreal. 

[roseha]

Did anyone else see last night's episode?  In addition to the odd non-permitted (except for the bathroom) structure in the backyard, Tarek and Christina's SUV was stolen while they were looking at the work done inside the house.  The camera crew managed to get footage as the thieves took off down the street...very surreal. 

 

I saw it!  with the creepy garage ("do not enter.  I will be back tonite"), the car theft and all that, that was something else!

I only wished they'd used Izzy on this episode.  His reactions would have been priceless.

Edited April 30, 2015 by roseha

[chessiegal]

I'm fairly certain the camera crew "capturing" the car theft was a reenactment. They said on their FB page today that it was very harrowing to have their car stolen, but they got it back a week later. They said they loved the car but after the theft they decided eventually to replace it. I don't think these episodes are filmed as things are actually happening for the most part.

[mojito]

Something about this episode didn't ring true. They were so quick to snatch this house up despite (supposedly) not knowing if the other house was legal. I didn't see anything about the place that made it even slightly interesting. 861 square feet, awkward kitchen, a lot of work needed, one bathroom, the questionable structure in the back, not very impressive comps considering that the other structure might have been a teardown.  Perhaps pickins' are slim in SoCal inventory.

[iMonrey]

Well, first of all, $409K for a two bedroom, one bathroom house? OUCH. Second of all, I'm 99.9% certain they know going into the purchase whether or not the back structure is permitted for living space. They're just not that green. It's just melodrama for the show. They just figured it was enough of a bonus space for a separate business to give the property the extra value they needed. Indeed, it sold at asking price within a week.

 

I noticed in addition to the mountains of junk back there, there seemed to be a trailer too. I had to back up and look a couple of times, but by the end they had gotten rid of the thing without ever mentioning it.

 

I think Tarek may be color blind. The grays looked purple to him. 

 

I wonder what kind of shape their car was in when they got it back.

Edited April 30, 2015 by iMonrey

[Angeltoes]

Why wasn't she flipping out over her purse? Surely they didn't take the keys and leave the purse.

[WildPlum]

Something about this episode didn't ring true. They were so quick to snatch this house up despite (supposedly) not knowing if the other house was legal. I didn't see anything about the place that made it even slightly interesting. 861 square feet, awkward kitchen, a lot of work needed, one bathroom, the questionable structure in the back, not very impressive comps considering that the other structure might have been a teardown.  Perhaps pickins' are slim in SoCal inventory.

 

In a little cut scene, Tarek said something about "two months of negotiation and then waiting for the tenant to vacate." They had PLENTY of time to look at the permits and knew going in what they were getting in to.

Edited May 1, 2015 by WildPlum

[bubbls]

Does anyone know if the at-home sequences are filmed at their real house? The reason I ask is because wherever it is the house/decor is very plain and almost empty, which surprises me. I assumed they'd have a beautifully decorated home.

[iMonrey]

This is the second time I've strongly disagreed with a design choice. That flooring they chose was just weird. It looked like something you'd see in a cartoon. Like a cartoonist actually painted that on the floor. 

 

The crud clogging up the pipes was gross, but I call total B.S. on them not noticing the lack of water pressure until after buying the house. Tarek had a chance to walk through the house before buying it, are you going to tell me he never turned on any of the faucets? What, is this the first house he ever bought?!? Enough with the "fake surprises" already, it just makes them look like idiots. They don't need that. Just show us, they know there's a plumbing issue going into, and let the suspense be about whether they have to do a total re-plumb or can get away with a partial one.

[Tonypitt]

That flooring is the first thing I've seen them select that I thought was hideous.

 

I've gotten to know their playbook.

1. Estimate the value of the renovation.
2. "Discover" something that they almost always would have known about before buying the property, and pretend that it was unknown.
3. Knock down walls closing up the kitchen. As much as possible convert to an open floor plan.
4. Renovate the bathrooms nicely.
5. Do almost nothing to the bedrooms. 
6. Spend twice the amount from point 1 above--if not more.
7. Have an open house where--at least now in later seasons--is totally staged and not real potential buyers.
8. "Time to find another house to flip."

 

I really like Tarek and Christine.  They seem like nice people.  This show is becoming too formulaic, though.  It reminds me of how the early seasons of Pawn Stars were interesting, but once they hit on a show pattern, everything just became another instance of that.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a flip take more than one episode.  I wouldn't mind seeing a "low end" flip.  I wouldn't mind episodes where there were no surprises at all, and everything went just as planned.  If they don't change things up, I think this show's popularity is going to start to decline.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Tonypitt

[captain1]

I agree Tonypitt - and I wouldn't mind seeing a gargantuan flop once in a while!

[iMonrey]

Yes and I think the reason why we're seeing some odd choices in design (like that flooring) is because they're becoming aware that all their flips look exactly alike. They always pick the same cabinets, flooring and granite. I mean, it makes sense from a business standpoint to use what's most popular right now and yet neutral enough for any buyer, but it makes for a boring show after awhile. 

 

There's going to come a day when granite and hardwoods go the way of the avocado appliances and shag rugs. I hope open concept eventually fades away as a fad too.

 

I have a friend who's a contractor and he says glass tiles are the biggest design mistake right now. They don't wear well and it's the first thing people will want torn out ten years from now.

Edited May 7, 2015 by iMonrey

[ByaNose]

That was ugly laminate flooring. The outer brown edges made the floor look so weird & cheap. Everything else looked nice. They did a good job on the bathrooms considering they weren't very big. The backyard and patio looked very inviting. That said, how do people live in California and pay those high prices? What does a $150,000 - $200,000 house look like? Is it a 1 bedroom & 1 bath?

[WildPlum]

 What does a $150,000 - $200,000 house look like? Is it a 1 bedroom & 1 bath?

 

There aren't any houses in the $150-200k range. That is why people move out past Riverside or up into the high desert of Victorville or Palmdale and have 2 hour commutes.

 

Count me in as disliking that floor choice, too.

[auntjess]

 

There's going to come a day when granite and hardwoods go the way of the avocado appliances and shag rugs. I hope open concept eventually fades away as a fad too.

But so many people, especially some buyers, don't seem to have the perspective to see that "this too shall pass," and seem to feel that ultimate style has been achieved.

That's what I find so annoying.

I'm another who thought the floors awful, and beyone awful, it's sinful to put cheap floors in a house costing over half a million dollors.

[Rhetorica]

The biggest difference between this season and previous ones, to me, is that Christina doesn't say, "purdy" anymore. I wonder if she saw herself and pronounces it correctly now. I felt bad for Izzy.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Rhetorica

[roseha]

 I felt bad for Izzy.

 

I did too.  I also feel the show is missing something when he's not on.  His personality adds a lot to the show.

[WildPlum]

I think Christina is trying to spread her wings as a designer, trying for less generic. I'll give her credit for that, for trying, but her taste is just ... OC bling to the max and very area-specific. The flooring last episode, the black trim and black-and-white kitchen? Argh, did not like at all.

 

Of course, in the voice-over at the end, Tarek said that they had multiple offers and got $20-$30k over asking price, so while it might not be to my taste, it is to someone else's.

[roughing it]

 

The flooring last episode, the black trim and black-and-white kitchen? Argh, did not like at all.

If you're going with laminate, I would think you would try for something that at least "looks" like real wood.  The flooring in last night's episode was laminate, and looked like laminate.  No mistaking it.  Ugh.  I understand taking chances, and it's not selected for your own home, but sorry Christina, should have listened to Tarek this time.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

 

I think Christina is trying to spread her wings as a designer, trying for less generic.

 

I agree.  I've seen the black trim done in model homes, and a family member just did it as well in her basement, and I know she is a big Pinterest person.

 

I like how they show Christina putting down one piece of tile in many projects.  It might be more fun if she did a little bit more hands-on work, even if it is just staging.  Sometimes they do change it up and show her and her daughter plopping a plant into the ground.  :-)

 

This show has gotten pretty boring ... why do I still watch?  I tell my husband, "Hey, this dude got his own HGTV show.  You are better looking, smarter, and have more personality ... you should do that!"

 

 

[iMonrey]

Well they're definitely trying to do different things to keep the show interesting, but OMG that kitchen was hideous with the black granite and black and white backsplash. And I hated the black trim around all the doors and windows. Yuck. But I can see where some people would think it's retro and it looks cool when it's all shiny and new. Just wait until someone has lived there for awhile and kitchen is all messy.

[MoreCoffeePlease]

I don't really even like Tarek, but ouch!  Chronic back pain is not fun.

 

Ooooh .... Christina handled an open house by herself.  Way to go girl!  (How does she stand for a couple of hours in those stiletto heels?)

 

I do not like those shiny, European-type cabinets. Christina was right about creating a proper laundry room.

 

Although the addition on this episode's house was legal/permitted, how are so many NOT legal projects done?  In my area, the township enforcement group drives around, and if they see any type of work being done, they are checking for the permit. I guess most of them in that area are done on the sly, without having a contractor's truck out front.