S31.E11: Southern Shame/S31.E12: They All Go Home

[lavenderpenguin]

I am so glad that the producers sent Jenna back to the trailer park she crawled out of, even if we had to lose CeeJai in the process. Violence is never the answer -- especially in this case, since it allowed poor, little Jenna to play victim, despite having provoked the last fight with CeeJai -- but I can't blame CeeJai for being unable to exercise restraint. Just watching Jenna from behind a screen made my blood boil, so I can only imagine how infuriating it must have been to be right there in a room with her. 

I am endlessly amused that Jenna thinks that CeeJai is "ratchet." Pot meet kettle. If CeeJai is ratchet, then backwoods, uneducated, can't-even-afford-a-dentist Jenna most certainly is, as well. The comedic irony lies in the fact that she's blind to how classically "ghetto" her own lifestyle and upbringing seems to be.

It does not surprise me, though, because people like her are the ones that hang on the tightest to racism -- because what else do they have? Jenna seemingly has no real education, comes from an impoverished background, doesn't have a stable home or family, no decent healthcare apparently, in and out of abusive relationships, no opportunities to travel or learn, just... nothing. For people like her, their skin color is the only thing going for them, so why wouldn't they want to hold onto that tiny, sad little piece of imagined superiority and privilege?

Edited May 27, 2016 by lavenderpenguin

[lavenderpenguin]

3 hours ago, Hiacios said:

Oh, little Jenna pushing big ass Ceejai is assault? LMAO! Both the attacks that Ceejai did on Jenna is really assaulting someone. 

Hey Jenna! 

[announcergirl]

11 minutes ago, lavenderpenguin said:

Hey Jenna! 

I thought the same thing!!!! Hey Jenna!

[laschifosavita]

For some non-Jenna subjects of conversation:

1. Dylan needs to learn that you only tell the producers that you're a mastermind.  You don't go telling someone like Dean, who has more sense than most of the cast put together.  The rest of the cast laughing at him was the best part of the show.  I'm starting to wonder if they considered casting him on Are You The One, because he would have fit right in there.

2. Dione saying that he doesn't have a job and is ready to go on the challenge could not have been more expected.  I almost hope that the editors put it in there to troll him a bit, since it does present him as a slightly more pathetic version of Johnny Bananas, since he at least got on a reality show when there was real money in it.

[scrb]

You're not going to browbeat or shame someone like Jenna to at least reexamine her views.

The more they condemned her for ignorance and racism, the more she dug in, as if "standing up" for her views, no matter how repugnant they are to others, was the most important thing.

I suspect few people are convinced to change lifelong beliefs by just talking it out or being called out in this case.

CJ said she should have just ignored her, not taken the bait.  Jenna wasn't worth breaking her promise to herself to non-violence, though Dean said that back home, her friends and family would condemn her for not giving Jenna a beat down.

The rest of the cast may mature, cringe at the things they did on RW, except Dionne, as long as the parents keep paying his bills.

[Hiacios]

2 hours ago, shelley1005 said:

Ceejai's neanderthalic behavior??

Jeepers.  Couldn't be more racist if they tried....

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know that Ceejai's behavior was civilized. My bad. lol. 

[shelley1234]

1 minute ago, Hiacios said:

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know that Ceejai's behavior was civilized. My bad. lol. 

Neither was Jenna's but I didn't see you calling her a neanderthal.  It's blatant racism....while defending the blatant racist.  It is what it is.

[Hiacios]

2 hours ago, RCharter said:

First - CJ was drunk as well, so I guess since drunkenness forgives things....CJ should be forgiven for whatever she said to Jenna

Second -- CJ didn't violently throw Jenna to the ground, if CJ wanted to be violent she could have easily beat Jenna to a pulp....just like CJ did when she actually WAS violent with Jenna.  

Third -- Jenna went up to CJ and blatantly assaulted her too, and what Jenna did was FAR worse than anything CJ said.

Fourth -- everyone was telling Jenna to shut up when she was talking to Dylan, not just CJ, but she didn't go after Dione.  So, I guess she wasn't so blackout drunk that she couldn't determine that it was easier for her to pick on CJ than to pick on Dione.

Fifth -- if Jenna didn't want people commenting on her "romance" she shouldn't have done it in front of everyone in the house, in a public area.  

Sixth -- What people were saying is that if Jenna had been rightfully removed for being physically violent, CJ would have remained in the house.  That is a valid and true point

Seventh -- The comments that Jenna was laughing at were way worse than what CJ has ever said to Jenna..."swerve bitch" is not the same as what was said to CJ

Eighth -- Jenna was using her friend as a proxy to say what she wanted to say.  This is clearly the case, because you can't tell me that Jenna doesn't know her friend is racist.  And she made sure to call her racist friend and loudly talk shit about what a badass she is in front of CJ and the entire house.  She knew what her friend was going to say, and Jenna had been trying to pick a fight since the day before when she told CJ to come over there and hit her in the face.  Well Jenna....be careful what you wish for.

You're right, Ceejai gently threw Jenna to the ground and kindly put her hands around her throat. smh. I don't think we are watching same show at all. lol. 

[announcergirl]

12 minutes ago, shelley1005 said:

Neither was Jenna's but I didn't see you calling her a neanderthal.  It's blatant racism....while defending the blatant racist.  It is what it is.

100%

[Craphole Island]

20 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

You're right, Ceejai gently threw Jenna to the ground and kindly put her hands around her throat. smh. I don't think we are watching same show at all. lol. 

I'm just curious, do you think Jenna did anything wrong at all? 

 

I dont condone violence and I wish CeeJai hadn't reacted the way she did, but you act as if she just attacked Jenna for fun.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Craphole Island

[Hiacios]

Just now, Craphole Island said:

I'm just curious, do you think Jenna did anything wrong at all? 

Jenna is not perfect and has flaws like everybody does, but she IMO is a better human being then any of those 7 obnoxious self righteous trendy blind idiots.  

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, lavenderpenguin said:

 

 

2 hours ago, announcergirl said:

 

 

59 minutes ago, Hiacios said:

You're right, Ceejai gently threw Jenna to the ground and kindly put her hands around her throat. smh. I don't think we are watching same show at all. lol. 

She was certainly much kinder than Jenna had the right to expect.  No, we clearly aren't watching the same show, I'm watching a show where Jenna ran up on CJ and physically assaulted her and got put down....and after she was put down she continued to kick out and try to fight.  Legally, you're able to use reasonable force in the face of a physical assault.....which means CJ would have been well within her rights to beat Jenna up far worse than she actually did.  Especially given the fact that even after being put down, Jenna continued to try and attack CJ.  Jenna is lucky she didn't try that with the wrong person, because she could easily end up in the ER.

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, Hiacios said:

Oh, I'm sorry I didn't know that Ceejai's behavior was civilized. My bad. lol. 

CJ has been incredibly civil in the face of Jenna's blatant racism.  Jenna can keep pretending that she wasn't looking for a fight when she: a) blatantly told CJ to come and punch her in the face, and b) made it a point to loudly have that conversation with a friend she knew was racist, c) sat around laughing at what her friend was saying, and d) talked about how she was going to "shoot" someone in the house.

I think CJ has shown remarkable restraint.  The minute Jenna started talking that mess to me, I would have fully ignored her and never given her another chance.  Jenna is trash, plain and simple, she isn't educated, she isn't intelligent, she isn't witty, she isn't cute....Jenna is nothing.  And a racist nothing at that.  I wouldn't have had any words to spare for her, and I wouldn't have even tried because I don't have the time.

Where CJ went wrong was in giving Jenna chances and not setting her straight immediately and then ignoring her.

2 hours ago, lavenderpenguin said:

Hey Jenna! 

 

2 hours ago, announcergirl said:

I thought the same thing!!!! Hey Jenna!

If this is Jenna....girl you need to call 1-800-Dentist, because its hard for me to buy your claims of superiority with those fucked up teeth.  IJS.

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

You're not going to browbeat or shame someone like Jenna to at least reexamine her views.

The more they condemned her for ignorance and racism, the more she dug in, as if "standing up" for her views, no matter how repugnant they are to others, was the most important thing.

I suspect few people are convinced to change lifelong beliefs by just talking it out or being called out in this case.

CJ said she should have just ignored her, not taken the bait.  Jenna wasn't worth breaking her promise to herself to non-violence, though Dean said that back home, her friends and family would condemn her for not giving Jenna a beat down.

The rest of the cast may mature, cringe at the things they did on RW, except Dionne, as long as the parents keep paying his bills.

I hate that.....if your point of view is so great, it should be able to stand up to scrutiny and thoughtful analysis.  Jenna just said things with no real logic or reason behind what she said....she was just parroting.

My only hope would be that others can see how ugly Jenna looked and try to change themselves or reconsider their position on certain topics.

Jenna, as a person, doesn't matter.  And I don't mean that in the abstract....I truly mean it.  She is uneducated and stupid....she will pop out some babies pretty soon and feed them Mountain Dew.  She will work at a low paying, minimum wage job for the rest of her life.  Jenna doesn't matter and she never will.  But hopefully someone who does matter can watch her and see how petty and ridiculous she looked.

1 hour ago, laschifosavita said:

For some non-Jenna subjects of conversation:

1. Dylan needs to learn that you only tell the producers that you're a mastermind.  You don't go telling someone like Dean, who has more sense than most of the cast put together.  The rest of the cast laughing at him was the best part of the show.  I'm starting to wonder if they considered casting him on Are You The One, because he would have fit right in there.

2. Dione saying that he doesn't have a job and is ready to go on the challenge could not have been more expected.  I almost hope that the editors put it in there to troll him a bit, since it does present him as a slightly more pathetic version of Johnny Bananas, since he at least got on a reality show when there was real money in it.

Dylan is one of those guys that should never open his mouth because it ruins his pretty face.

[OnceSane]

Jenna's racist & homophobic troll ass should have been kicked out when she didn't do one of the "Go Big" challenges.  Or after she assaulted Ceejai.  But neither happened and instead my ears were assaulted with racist remarks and my eyeballs were assaulted by that grill.  Oh well, she learned nothing and I hope to never see her again.

Dylan was dreaming if he thought anyone would believe his "mastermind" story. Dude, you thought this chick was hot and were willing to overlook her extreme racism if she banged you almost immediately after meeting you.  Didn't happen so you bailed.  Just admit it.

[announcergirl]

1 hour ago, Hiacios said:

Jenna is not perfect and has flaws like everybody does, but she IMO is a better human being then any of those 7 obnoxious self righteous trendy blind idiots.  

This ends the conversation for me. I wish you well.

[Silo]

The real question is whether Dione is Pauly Shore's love child.

[lilithred]

Quote

Jenna is not perfect and has flaws like everybody does, but she IMO is a better human being then any of those 7 obnoxious self righteous trendy blind idiots.

Lol. I was gonna write a long winded response but this post here reminded me why I better not bother and just laugh instead. 

[Racj82]

This is the way I look at the fights from the production side of things. The first fight wasn't really fight. Jenna charged ceejai and then ceejai subdued her. No punches landed. So, they talked with both of them, things seemed okay and they let it go with just a week left. Then, another fight was instigated through Jenna but ceejai was the aggressor this time physically. Punches were landed this time by one person. The actions by both parties couldn't be excused away. They both had to go.

You can call out the producers for the environment that was created but every single real world has heated arguments. Sometimes uncomfortable situations. Since day one. That's what they sign up for. You don't know who you will be forced to deal with. And no one is forcing you. You can walk if you want. It's also why I would never sign up for the show. Living with strangers doesn't appeal to me.

Lastly, no I don't think they set out to have some racial war. They try to find people with different dynamics and views. See what happens. Things don't always end up hostile like this as a result. Based on initial impressions, I wouldn't have even thought Jenna would turn out THIS deplorable. I'm sure the producers love the drama but just don't think they wanted something THIS bad. But it's something you can't control. The reactions. At least, to a certain extent.

[Blissfool]

I don't like Jenna for obvious reasons, but I don't like Ceejai either.

I think Ceejai likes to think of herself as fancy, classy lawyer. She goes on and on with her self-righteous speeches in the diary room, in the company of the other roommates, and to herself as she's pacing around talking to herself. Her high and mighty attitude rubbed me the wrong way especially when I see her acting so immature at times....feeding the crazy bird by interjecting in jenna's conversations instead of walking away; pooping with the door open; bad-talking Kailah on social media; and, yes, those ugly trashy jeans she wore the last night.

Ceejai likes to think of herself as a martyr and the other houseguests bought it as evidenced by how they were talkingtalking about her at dinner. 

[RCharter]

3 hours ago, Little Spoon said:

I don't like Jenna for obvious reasons, but I don't like Ceejai either.

I think Ceejai likes to think of herself as fancy, classy lawyer. She goes on and on with her self-righteous speeches in the diary room, in the company of the other roommates, and to herself as she's pacing around talking to herself. Her high and mighty attitude rubbed me the wrong way especially when I see her acting so immature at times....feeding the crazy bird by interjecting in jenna's conversations instead of walking away; pooping with the door open; bad-talking Kailah on social media; and, yes, those ugly trashy jeans she wore the last night.

Ceejai likes to think of herself as a martyr and the other houseguests bought it as evidenced by how they were talkingtalking about her at dinner. 

The thing I always remember CJ saying was that she didn't want to be disrespected and she took a stand for certain things.  If she thinks of herself as classy, I think thats fine because she has shown a great deal of class in dealing with Jenna.  Is she supposed to think of herself as some low down piece of trash?

And why should she have to walk away time and time again from Jenna's racism and baiting?  Why should she have to keep turning the other cheek?  So it can get slapped again?

At least two of them pooped with the door open, and they all frequently farted....I wouldn't do it, but I also don't think you need to be serious all the time to be taken seriously.  To me, putting on airs would be far more in line with someone acting as a "fancy, classy lawyer," instead of someone just speaking from the heart about how they feel in the face of blatant racism.

She is immature because she wore ugly jeans?  That sounds like a stretch, but okay.

As for being a martyr, she said 15 million times that she was sorry and that she shouldn't have let Jenna get under her skin enough to make her violent.  But the roommates saw how much she had been pushed by Jenna, and she had.  Jenna was clearly angling for a fight for at least two days.  She made sure to have loud, braggadocios conversations in the presence of all the roommates about how she did this and that to CJ.  But yet, it was up to CJ to take this disrespect and slink away like a church mouse?  Because Jenna should be able to say whatever she wants and no one else should be allowed to respond?  She told CJ to come over there and hit her in the face.  The following day she made sure to call her "friend" and laugh at her "jokes." in front of the entire house.  Yet, CJ was supposed to simply take that disrespect, because the rules are somehow different for Jenna.

[Zima]

3 hours ago, Little Spoon said:

I don't like Jenna for obvious reasons, but I don't like Ceejai either.

I think Ceejai likes to think of herself as fancy, classy lawyer. She goes on and on with her self-righteous speeches in the diary room, in the company of the other roommates, and to herself as she's pacing around talking to herself. Her high and mighty attitude rubbed me the wrong way especially when I see her acting so immature at times....feeding the crazy bird by interjecting in jenna's conversations instead of walking away; pooping with the door open; bad-talking Kailah on social media; and, yes, those ugly trashy jeans she wore the last night.

Ceejai likes to think of herself as a martyr and the other houseguests bought it as evidenced by how they were talkingtalking about her at dinner. 

I really liked  Ceejai during the first few episodes. I genuinely thought she was someone that I would love to know and hang out with IRL. Unfortunately, that all changed after the episode where she and Dione were complete assholes to Kailah for really no good reason. Kailah can be annoying, and she says and does some young/dumb things, but she didn't deserve the awful treatment the others gave her.  I do agree with you that Ceejai instigated fights  with Jenna by constantly interjecting with little jabs and quips like "swerve, bitch" out of nowhere, but given Jenna's deplorable behavior, I can't really blame her. 

Also, I don't think anyone should be considered "trashy" or "immature" because of the way they are dressed, but to each their own.

[tumamita]

I'm surprised Jenna's beat down happened until a week before going home. I thought she was going down as soon as the season started.

She really bugged me. "I'm not racist or condone what my friend said." But was laughing about it. Right. Because it's not from your lips its okay. I hope she feels like an idiot when that episode aired.

[Watermelon]

She only decided to say she didn't condone what her friend said after she got kicked out of the house and had thought about it.  Even if you want to split the difference when your friends say things you throw in a denial or a "nooooo" even if you're faking. Jenna couldn't be bothered. She just giggled her life away, because she's racist and hates ceejai.

[shelley1234]

Yep.  Jenna didn't say the comment.  She did say a bajillion other racist things, but not that horrible statement.  True.

She did giggle and laugh at it.  That is not only condoning it, but supporting it.  

But I am sure because she was drunk again.  Not her fault. 

I still don't think it is right that Ceejai put her hands on her, but I can see why it happened.  I wish one of the roommates had taken Ceejai and went for a walk to vent and cool down.  They saw how livid she was...rightfully so.  I would have done that if it was me.  Taken my friend for a walk.

Edited May 28, 2016 by shelley1005

[Watermelon]

I'm not a fighter by nature (although my belief in team pow pow if well documented), so I can't help but wonder what I would have done.  I also think had Chris been there he would have either taken up the cause like Kailah did OR have notice CeeJai's shaking knee and gotten her out of there.

 

Lowkey? I get the feeling all the roomies who were there knew CeeJai was at her breaking point (it would have been obvious to Hellen Keller), and wanted Jenna to get in a fight.  I don't think anybody REALLY thought CeeJai had hands like she does and I bet nobody thought a black eye would happen. 

[Racj82]

What I find interesting is that none of the roommates ever tried to stop either fight. Not that they have to offer course. But, I've been in that situation where you see a situation about to go left and run interference. The second confrontation especially. They knew exactly  what was going to happen. Dylan even yelled here we go when Jenna stopped talking to her friend. They totally wanted that beat down to happen.

[Fouts]

Is this the first season where the hamsters had zero privacy from each other for making their phone calls?  No walls whatsoever, no sound barriers, and a video screen open for view of anyone in the room?  

[Fouts]

Something else I noticed: Unlike any other RW or Challenge fight I've ever seen, I don't believe editing ever re-played CJ's smackdown of Jenna even once.  I re-played it myself in slow-mo; it was quite impressive.  CJ first yanked up Jenna's hair to immobilize her, then hit rapid-fired direct punches to her face at close range, all in about two seconds.  Girl knew what she was doing.  

[announcergirl]

I have watched the fight several times on YouTube. Wow.

[RCharter]

46 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

What I find interesting is that none of the roommates ever tried to stop either fight. Not that they have to offer course. But, I've been in that situation where you see a situation about to go left and run interference. The second confrontation especially. They knew exactly  what was going to happen. Dylan even yelled here we go when Jenna stopped talking to her friend. They totally wanted that beat down to happen.

That sort of annoyed me too -- I think someone said "well, if Chris were here he would have stopped it."  But if this was preventable, why didn't anyone else step in to prevent it?  However, I could see where no one else thought it through enough to realize that it would ultimately hurt CJ.  They probably just wanted to see Jenna get her ass beat.  

While violence is not the answer...but if if ever was the answer....this was the time becauseI sort of savored that ass whipping just watching it on TV....because you wanna talk that mess?  and you wanna talk about how you're gonna shoot people?  you wanna tell people that you're gonna show them how country girls do it?  you got some racist jokes?  you wanna sit on the phone and talk about how much of a badass you are?  you wanna tell someone to come and hit you in the face?  I mean, in a way, Jenna was literally asking to have her ass beaten.

...or maybe Dylan was masterminding the entire thing....evil genius that he is.

Edited May 28, 2016 by RCharter

[ridethemaverick]

On 5/27/2016 at 9:17 PM, shelley1005 said:

Neither was Jenna's but I didn't see you calling her a neanderthal.  It's blatant racism....while defending the blatant racist.  It is what it is.

 

The irony is that it's not black folks who have Neanderthal DNA...

[Silo]

Jenna said things that were blatantly racist but she never discriminated  against anyone in the house, either. She never told Chris she wouldn't hang out with him because he was pansexual or an atheist. She might have internally judged him for it, but didn't treat him differently because of his beliefs.  She never told CJ or Dean that she wouldn't hang out with them because they were black. She didn't treat them any differently because they were black. Jenna showed racists thoughts but not discriminatory behavior.

However, Chris and CJ went out of their way to pick on her. Jenna made general derogatory statements about race, homosexuality and atheism, but they made it personal about her. They were being really mean to her, personally, in every episode.  If she had done something to them, like steal their money or clothes, or tried to turn everyone against them, or had done anything to them besides just have beliefs that different from theirs, then maybe I could've understood and been more empathetic of their treatment to her.  But she didn't *do*  anything wrong, other than have beliefs that were different than theirs. Don't get me wrong, if they had decided to ignore her and just be polite but not gone any deeper in their friendship with her, I would've totally been on board with that. But to go out of their way to pick on her, when she wasn't tangibly  harming them, was really wrong in my opinion. 

 I personally think that both CJ and Chris took out their aggression on Jenna for every time they felt discriminated against or belittled in their lives. I think she became a target not just because of the things she said, but because Chris and CJ have anger issues that haven't been resolved in regards to their identity and how they are treated in daily life and, in Chris's case, by the people in his religion and his family. Jenna became a whipping boy for them to channel their aggression.  No one tried to stop them because if you defend someone who's making racist/homophobic remarks, then you're automatically seen to be a racist/homophobe, too, even if in reality you just don't like seeing someone being picked on unjustly. So the other roommates couldn't really even entertain the thought of sticking up for Jenna lest they also be called a racist and homophobic. Plus, they also thought she was super annoying because she refused to take any responsibility for any of her actions.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Silo

[Blissfool]

14 minutes ago, Silo said:

No one tried to stop them because if you defend someone who's making racist/homophobic remarks, then you're automatically seen to be a racist/homophobe, too, even if in reality you just don't like seeing someone being picked on unjustly. So the other roommates couldn't really even entertain the thought of sticking up for Jenna lest they also be called a racist and homophobic.

This is what i fear when i defend jenna on this forum. 

And thank you, Silo. Finally, someone who sees it as i see it.

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, Silo said:

Jenna said things that were blatantly racist but she never discriminated  against anyone in the house, either. She never told Chris she wouldn't hang out with him because he was pansexual or an atheist. She might have internally judged him for it, but didn't treat him differently because of his beliefs.  She never told CJ or Dean that she wouldn't hang out with them because they were black. She didn't treat them any differently because they were black. Jenna showed racists thoughts but not discriminatory behavior.

However, Chris and CJ went out of their way to pick on her. Jenna made general derogatory statements about race, homosexuality and atheism, but they made it personal about her. They were being really mean to her, personally, in every episode.  If she had done something to them, like steal their money or clothes, or tried to turn everyone against them, or had done anything to them besides just have beliefs that different from theirs, then maybe I could've understood and been more empathetic of their treatment to her.  But she didn't *do*  anything wrong, other than have beliefs that were different than theirs. Don't get me wrong, if they had decided to ignore her and just be polite but not gone any deeper in their friendship with her, I would've totally been on board with that. But to go out of their way to pick on her, when she wasn't tangibly  harming them, was really wrong in my opinion. 

 I personally think that both CJ and Chris took out their aggression on Jenna for every time they felt discriminated against or belittled in their lives. I think she became a target not just because of the things she said, but because Chris and CJ have anger issues that haven't been resolved in regards to their identity and how they are treated in daily life and, in Chris's case, by the people in his religion and his family. Jenna became a whipping boy for them to channel their aggression.  No one tried to stop them because if you defend someone who's making racist/homophobic remarks, then you're automatically seen to be a racist/homophobe, too, even if in reality you just don't like seeing someone being picked on unjustly. So the other roommates couldn't really even entertain the thought of sticking up for Jenna lest they also be called a racist and homophobic. Plus, they also thought she was super annoying because she refused to take any responsibility for any of her actions.

How do you know she didn't treat Chris differently because of her beliefs?  Her beliefs seem to be that if you don't look like Jenna, if you're slightly different than Jenna you are automatically inferior.  And she treated people accordingly.  Because that...ultimately is what racism is....its a belief that there is some characteristic that an entire race shares that makes them inferior.  So grouping black people together as "acting" one way, or "living in the past" is racist...and it also shows that Jenna thinks that she....as a white person is above any of that.  Even though Jenna was the first one to blame her upbringing and past for her racism.

And I'm not sure what "being treated differently" is to you, but when I'm being put down, or my entire race is being put down, or my sexual identity is being put down...that is indeed "treating me differently."  But then again, I don't understand the idea that saying discriminatory things to people is somehow not a form of discriminatory treatment.  Words are behavior, and Jenna's words and actions were discriminatory.  Additionally, her behavior, such as basically implying that Dean is a scary black man for raising his voice when there was no such fear for Chris is an example of discriminatory behavior.  Her singling out CJ when everyone, including Dionne, was telling her to shut up.....is telling as well.  

The idea that Jenna would have to steal their money or clothes before they are allowed to speak up seems a little bizarre to me.

I also don't understand why Chris and CJ were supposed to just happily take her disrespect.  Is Jenna is the only one allowed to express her feelings and beliefs?  That's confusing to me.  Jenna says something disrespectful and offensive....others respond and people call it bullying.  Huh?  Is Jenna the only one allowed to say what she thinks or how she feels?  If everyone disagrees they have to stay quiet?

I don't know about you, but if you try to laugh at a joke about a "nappy headed ho" or "go pick cotton bitch" I'm gonna take that personally.  You basically tell me that my sexuality is "disgusting" I'm going to take that personally.  I guess some people don't, different strokes for different folks....but I'm not going to fault someone for taking that personally. 

So, Jenna has racist and homophobic beliefs, and she is allowed to express them in the house, but no one else should express their disagreement?  I don't even understand that logic to try to develop a counterpoint.

And they all avoided and ignored Jenna, but she would insert herself where no one wanted her and be loud and obnoxious and unavoidable.  They were all in the fort and Jenna was left out.  She made it a point to be loud and obnoxious in a public area and then get upset when others expressed an opinion.  The next day she made it a point to call her friend and have a loud ass conversation about CJ and how she had to get in a fight with her in front of the entire house.  You can't tell me that conversation couldn't have happened when everyone else was gone because they are always leaving without Jenna.  The day after that, Jenna had her friend on the phone and was talking that same mess in front of the entire house.  And you can't convince me that Jenna didn't know her friend was a racist and was going to say something like that.  I wouldn't be surprised if they had discussed it ahead of time.

Yet.....its on everyone else to pussyfoot around Jenna?  You're supposed to sit there and listen as Jenna says she is going to "shoot someone in the house" and talks a big game about how she is about to beat people up when she just got her ass handed to her?  You're supposed to just sit there and take disrespect because thats what Jenna has decided to dish out today?  

If people had anger issues Jenna would have been beaten up the second week.  Instead everyone showed restraint in dealing with her.  CJ and Chris both voted to keep Jenna in the house when they could have gotten her out....yet they have unresolved anger issues?  Because they won't just let Jenna walk all over them and constantly put them down?  

If someone thinks that Jenna is being picked on unjustly....than yes....I have questions about whether or not they agree with her POV.  And that's just real talk, when I see someone take up for a racist or a homophobe, its normally another racist or a homophobe.  Its generally someone who is smart enough to try to frame the argument in terms like someone being "unjustly picked on" or being "bullied."  But IMO, there is nothing unjust in defending yourself against abhorrent behavior, offensive remarks or in expressing your distaste in have your entire race or sexual identity belittled and insulted.  I can see nothing unjust in that.* 

Racism and homophobia may be different belief systems, but no one is under any obligation to respect such a belief system or a person who espouses them.  People are also allowed to speak up, disagree with, and let their own feelings be known.  The right to speak freely doesn't just apply to racists and homophobic people.  It applies to everyone, and if everyone disagrees with, or dislikes Jenna because of her belief system....that's just fine.  

*ETA -- I don't question those who stand up for the freedom of speech, when Jewish attorneys in the ACLU took up the cause to allow a neo-Nazi's to march in Skokie....that was admirable.  When the NAACP took up the cause to allow the Klan to keep its membership lists private (a right guaranteed by the first amendment) that was admirable.  

However, when the Neo-Nazi's showed up to the "march," Jewish protesters had the right to show up and drown them out.   Fred Phelps and his "ministry" have the right to protest funerals.......but others have the right to equally express their views on Phelps and his ministry. Because the freedom of speech includes the freedom of others to speak as well.

Having said that, Jenna is not a profile in courage for free speech, because Jenna said whatever she wanted to say, and others said what they wanted to say in response.  Which is exactly how freedom of speech works, so there is no overriding principle for defending Jenna's behavior, IMO.

Edited May 29, 2016 by RCharter

[RCharter]

49 minutes ago, Little Spoon said:

This is what i fear when i defend jenna on this forum. 

And thank you, Silo. Finally, someone who sees it as i see it.

Yes, its really heartbreaking to think that no one will stick up for the poor little racist.

Tonight...I shall play the worlds smallest violin for Jenna.

[shelley1234]

9 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

 

The irony is that it's not black folks who have Neanderthal DNA...

I know, but racists don't need knowledge to get in the way of their racism.  

It reminds me of a documentary I just saw recently of a White Separatist who took a DNA test to prove his White European heritage...turned out he was like 16% African.  Oops.   

[Hiacios]

10 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

 

The irony is that it's not black folks who have Neanderthal DNA...

I said that because she physically attacks someone multiple times that she disagrees with, is a load mouth and talk over people, uses the bathroom with the door open and wears men's underwear for crying out loud. SMH. She is a black women that has absolutely no class and brings up racism every chance she can get. #Neanderthal

[Hiacios]

On 5/27/2016 at 9:21 PM, RCharter said:

 

 

She was certainly much kinder than Jenna had the right to expect.  No, we clearly aren't watching the same show, I'm watching a show where Jenna ran up on CJ and physically assaulted her and got put down....and after she was put down she continued to kick out and try to fight.  Legally, you're able to use reasonable force in the face of a physical assault.....which means CJ would have been well within her rights to beat Jenna up far worse than she actually did.  Especially given the fact that even after being put down, Jenna continued to try and attack CJ.  Jenna is lucky she didn't try that with the wrong person, because she could easily end up in the ER.

Your perception of the events that took place between Ceejai and Jenna remind me of how this guy perceived things on 60 days in. lol.

[shelley1234]

1 hour ago, Hiacios said:

I said that because she physically attacks someone multiple times that she disagrees with, is a load mouth and talk over people, uses the bathroom with the door open and wears men's underwear for crying out loud. SMH. She is a black women that has absolutely no class and brings up racism every chance she can get. #Neanderthal

If history serves me right....that has nothing to do with being a neanderthal.  Unfortunately people have decided to make it about black people who don't behave like the white folks like.  It's blatant racism.  Horrible.  I am no longer surprised.  

By your standard though, Jenna must also be a neanderthal, right?  She attacked another person.  Is a loud mouth who yells at people about wanting to beat their asses and says she is going to shoot people because they do not agree with her and voice it.  She yells and screams at people all the time.  She spews racists comments from her mouth all the time and laughs with joy when her friends tells an African American woman to pick some cotton.  If that is your definition, she's in fine neanderthal form.  Except she is not black and that term seems to only be slung at people of color.  #Racist 

Edited May 29, 2016 by shelley1005

[ridethemaverick]

2 hours ago, Hiacios said:

I said that because she physically attacks someone multiple times that she disagrees with, is a load mouth and talk over people, uses the bathroom with the door open and wears men's underwear for crying out loud. SMH. She is a black women that has absolutely no class and brings up racism every chance she can get. #Neanderthal

 

*Woman 

Anyway, I don't care to debate Ceejai with you. She will still go on to be a better and more productive person than Jenna. And frankly, there's nothing to debate because in the grand scheme of things, racists like Jenna can't ever have the moral high ground. As a pp said, they cling to their skin color as evidence of superiority without realizing that despite what the history books say, they aren't actually descended from greatness. They're descended from savagery. I don't even understand how Jenna, who is uneducated trash, can look down on someone like Ceejai. Where does that type of gall come from? 

[Watermelon]

2 hours ago, Hiacios said:

Your perception of the events that took place between Ceejai and Jenna remind me of how this guy perceived things on 60 days in. lol.

So, I watched that show. The level of delusion that man was embroiled in is more in line with a person who could say that someone who threatened to shoot somebody and basically dared CeeJai to hit them was some sort of victim.

[RCharter]

2 hours ago, Hiacios said:

Your perception of the events that took place between Ceejai and Jenna remind me of how this guy perceived things on 60 days in. lol.

LOL....is this your attempt at snark?  I don't even watch that show and this seems like the sort of thing someone would resort to when they don't have logic or reason on their side. 

I would almost give you credit for the effort, but the result is such an epic fail that its hard to think you tried at all :)

[atomic]

Can't say I was a big fan of Tori from the Challenges, but I appreciated seeing this from her yesterday. 

[Jenkins]

I have to say, I am wondering if we are being trolled by people defending Jenna? I mean, who can actually defend someone like that after having watched what she has said and done? The only people I can see defending her are her friends, family and fellow racists/homophobes.

So we have someone who has made homophobic and racist remarks, talked about "shooting" someone who had parents both die from gun violence, laughed while one of her friends said THE most racists things ever muttered on The Real World (which, definitely says she condones it) and SHE is the victim? What fucking backwards world am I living in right now?

I am trying to stay out of this whole conversation because it hits home for me (VERY mixed family and I try to never post out of emotion), but man, some of you make it difficult with your comments. Though my comments aren't really needed as RCharter is more than holding it down...it is actually kind of laughable how badly she is verbally thrashing some of you.

[jenrising]

On 5/28/2016 at 8:40 AM, Little Spoon said:

I don't like Jenna for obvious reasons, but I don't like Ceejai either.

I think Ceejai likes to think of herself as fancy, classy lawyer. She goes on and on with her self-righteous speeches in the diary room, in the company of the other roommates, and to herself as she's pacing around talking to herself. Her high and mighty attitude rubbed me the wrong way especially when I see her acting so immature at times....feeding the crazy bird by interjecting in jenna's conversations instead of walking away; pooping with the door open; bad-talking Kailah on social media; and, yes, those ugly trashy jeans she wore the last night.

Ceejai likes to think of herself as a martyr and the other houseguests bought it as evidenced by how they were talkingtalking about her at dinner. 

I think the thinly veiled codeword you're looking for is "uppity." Very popular to describe an accomplished, educated woman like Ceejai. She's gone through hell and done more than survive, she's thrived and achieved a lot more than most people. None of that requires her to be perfect for it to be true. Anyone who can look at her and listen to her talk about how she struggles to overcome her past and not be impressed and inspired says a lot more about them than it does about her. 

[Silo]

Except she hasn't "overcome" her past because she's terribly violent. And I'm not calling her violent just because she's black (as I'm sure some would say I'm alluding to). I'm calling her violent bc she held Jenna's hair and beat the shit out of her.  CJ knew she was wrong, too, which is why she told Dean that she shouldn't have "gone there" with Jenna over something "Jenna's friend said".

Edited May 30, 2016 by Silo

[Pixel]

28 minutes ago, Silo said:

Except she hasn't "overcome" her past because she's terribly violent. And I'm not calling her violent just because she's black (as I'm sure some would say I'm alluding to). I'm calling her violent bc she held Jenna's hair and beat the shit out of her.  CJ knew she was wrong, too, which is why she told Dean that she shouldn't have "gone there" with Jenna over something "Jenna's friend said".

I wouldn't classify her as "terribly violent". She held back a hell of a lot longer than I would have, and I've never hit anyone in my life.   I'd have beaten Jenna's ass, though. 

[Silo]

How do you know she didn't treat Chris differently because of her beliefs?  

Because the producers would have shown it and then shown the roommates commenting on it.

And I'm not sure what "being treated differently" is to you, but when I'm being put down, or my entire race is being put down, or my sexual identity is being put down...that is indeed "treating me differently."  

No. I can think gay sex is disgusting, and still be nice and respectful of gay people. I could hate black/Asian/Jewish/white people, but still be polite to them. People don't always treat others in accordance with how they really feel about them; if society did that, society would collapse. I'm not talking just racially/gender/sexually. I'm talking about that coworker you hate. You still have to be nice to them to keep your job. As long as you treat them with respect, you can feel about them however you want.

The idea that Jenna would have to steal their money or clothes before they are allowed to speak up seems a little bizarre to me.

No one is saying that they shouldn't be open about their beliefs or to not debate with Jenna. Do you really not see a difference between debating ones beliefs and calling another human being "pathetic, weak, bitch, desperate" and being blatantly disrespectful on a seemingly daily or weekly basis? You can disagree with someone, but that's not just what they were doing. They were bullying her.

Basically CJ, Chris feels society gangs up on them. So they decided to band together and gang up on Jenna, who was the minority in the house as far as her beliefs are concerned. They treated her the way they hate being treated. That makes them the worse hypocrites in my eyes. But it felt good to them to take their aggression out on her. And it seems it felt satisfying as a viewer who identifies with CJ/Chris to watch that. But if one were to remain objective, they would see that behavior is deplorable. And antithetical to their goals. Unless you super-identify with CJ or Chris, it's hard not to feel sorry for how Jenna was treated, no matter what racist/homophobic things she said.

And I doubly don't feel sorry for CJ/Chris because they had the option of voting Jenna out of the house and didn't. 

If people had anger issues Jenna would have been beaten up the second week.

^That would be someone with serious mental health issues, who probably would never make it through the psych screen. Someone with anger issues is passive-aggressive (which CJ was with EVERYONE in the house with her "Compli-disses"), holds grudges and lets anger accumulate over time and then unleashes their true feelings in a non-productive/socially acceptable manner. The fact that someone sees being nailed in the face several times at close range as justifiable behavior for verbal sparring (no matter how charged the conversation might be or for how many months it's continued) is unbelievable to me, but to each their own. In real life, Jenna could have called the police and CJ would have gone to jail. Even if they had both been white. Because that's not how we're supposed to handle disagreements in normal, polite society. 

 

I'm done discussing this. I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not lol.

[Watermelon]

In normal polite society you don't sit in an open room and call someone a nappy headed bitch (ho?) and tell them to pick cotton BUT HERE WE ARE.  In normal polite society one doesn't threaten to shoot someone they dislike BUT HERE WE ARE.

 

I've notice in general, some people (even awful people) are able to garner sympathy when EVERYONE thinks they're horrible.  Viewers at home think it's not nice, or bullying, or some such.  I don't have that issue. At all.  

I've also noticed some people have a firm dislike for CeeJai but see a need to defend Jenna.  It's not actually an either or situation. You can find CeeJai passive aggressive and up Dione's ass (I certainly do) without defending Jenna, or conveniently acting like she's a victim, or pretending she did nothing wrong, or deciding because she actually can't fight the time when she tried to assault CeeJai doesn't count.