This Is Our Spoiler and Speculation Topic

[himela]

On the other hand, if Kate died ten years after the fire incident, Jack wouldn't be sad that his parents broke up rather than that his mom died later on.

But it's frustrating that they have left a lot open to just add at the last minute so we'll never find out what was actually predetermined to happen and what happened at the last minute.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, himela said:

On the other hand, if Kate died ten years after the fire incident, Jack wouldn't be sad that his parents broke up rather than that his mom died later on.

But it's frustrating that they have left a lot open to just add at the last minute so we'll never find out what was actually predetermined to happen and what happened at the last minute.

I get the writers not wanting to show their hand with the flashforward to Rebecca's deathbed.  If you show too much, you risk losing viewers.  Also, you do not want to box in your writers too much.  I do find it interesting that the writers decided in Season 3 to have Kate and Toby split up, even if viewers did not know this until the end of Season 5.  Really at this point, the only main character we have not seen in the 2030 timeline is Kate.  Why people think Kate is dead is beyond me though.  I never bought into the idea that she was not alive when we saw Toby by himself.  Kate is going to show up with Jack, Hailey and possibly Philip.  I feel like the writers knew this back in Season 3, they just decided not to show it yet.  The Philip part had to have come later, but Kate being with her son does not seem too farfetched for that point in time.  

Honestly, for me, the only real question mark is who Kevin marries.  

[Rootbeer]

7 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I get the writers not wanting to show their hand with the flashforward to Rebecca's deathbed.  If you show too much, you risk losing viewers.  Also, you do not want to box in your writers too much.  I do find it interesting that the writers decided in Season 3 to have Kate and Toby split up, even if viewers did not know this until the end of Season 5.  Really at this point, the only main character we have not seen in the 2030 timeline is Kate.  Why people think Kate is dead is beyond me though.  I never bought into the idea that she was not alive when we saw Toby by himself.  Kate is going to show up with Jack, Hailey and possibly Philip.  I feel like the writers knew this back in Season 3, they just decided not to show it yet.  The Philip part had to have come later, but Kate being with her son does not seem too farfetched for that point in time.  

Honestly, for me, the only real question mark is who Kevin marries.  

I think Kate is alive, too, and I think the reason she hasn't been seen in the flash forwards is because there was always the possibility that Chrissy Metz might lose a lot of weight and they would have shown her at Rebecca's deathbed and have to backtrack and have Kate regain weight between the final present day scene and the flashforward to Rebecca or otherwise hedge their bets as to what Chrissy Metz might do in the several years between the filming of the first flash forward and the actual finale.  It's one thing to show characters going gray or losing hair or developing wrinkles.  That can be done fairly easily.  However, there was no way to keep filming Kate in the final scenes over the years and have her size be consistent throughout should Chrissy Metz' have had a significant change in her weight. She hasn't, as far as we can see; but I do think it was a consideration.

I expect that now that there is a lot of speculation as to whether Kate is still alive when Rebecca dies that she won't show up in any of the future scenes until the very end, just to keep up the suspense.

[debraran]

59 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I think Kate is alive, too, and I think the reason she hasn't been seen in the flash forwards is because there was always the possibility that Chrissy Metz might lose a lot of weight and they would have shown her at Rebecca's deathbed and have to backtrack and have Kate regain weight between the final present day scene and the flashforward to Rebecca or otherwise hedge their bets as to what Chrissy Metz might do in the several years between the filming of the first flash forward and the actual finale.  It's one thing to show characters going gray or losing hair or developing wrinkles.  That can be done fairly easily.  However, there was no way to keep filming Kate in the final scenes over the years and have her size be consistent throughout should Chrissy Metz' have had a significant change in her weight. She hasn't, as far as we can see; but I do think it was a consideration.

I expect that now that there is a lot of speculation as to whether Kate is still alive when Rebecca dies that she won't show up in any of the future scenes until the very end, just to keep up the suspense.

I agree that was the reason too, to stay exactly the same is a lot to ask and the danger of really far ahead scenes. I don't think they thought she would but left it open. The problem with filming ahead is what is Nicky is filmed and then gets hurt or breaks an arm or someone hurts themselves another way. I feel they did a lot more than shown obviously and really might have done it all but didn't show it. Also Alex said Sophie's scenes weren't shown but I don't think they were meant to be. They needed to film before she cut her hair or gained 10 lbs or whatever. I have a feeling with selective edits, they did it all.

Think about it, if the kids playing Kevin's kids were just filmed then, they would be 2 years older now and not fit the look or size. You can't change them that way for scenes just not shown. I think Mandy said it was very sad but doesn't want to answer or have to keep saying she can't answer what was filmed.

[himela]

Even if Chrissy had lost weight, aren't there fat suits and face prosthetics?

[Ohiopirate02]

28 minutes ago, himela said:

Even if Chrissy had lost weight, aren't there fat suits and face prosthetics?

The show could do that, but why.  It's far easier to not film future Kate.  Also, the backlash would be catastrophic.   No network or showrunner wants to be that guy.  

[Aloeonatable]

On 1/28/2022 at 5:43 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Honestly, for me, the only real question mark is who Kevin marries. 

Did he have a wedding ring on in the future episodes? I don't remember. I kind of hope he is still single. 

[himela]

So I rewatched the scene with Rebecca in deathbed 3 seasons ago. When Toby comes, he says to Randall "I called Jack and they're on their way". He doesn't say anything about "her". So "they" can be Jack and his wife or Jack with whomever, but not necessarily Kate.

Edit to say: no Jack is too young to have a wife, he must be 13 or something, but still "her" is not mentioned.

Edited January 29, 2022 by himela

[PRgal]

9 hours ago, himela said:

So I rewatched the scene with Rebecca in deathbed 3 seasons ago. When Toby comes, he says to Randall "I called Jack and they're on their way". He doesn't say anything about "her". So "they" can be Jack and his wife or Jack with whomever, but not necessarily Kate.

Edit to say: no Jack is too young to have a wife, he must be 13 or something, but still "her" is not mentioned.

It would be Jack, Hailey and the adult looking after them.  If Kate's still alive, it would likely be Kate and Philip.

[himela]

5 hours ago, PRgal said:

It would be Jack, Hailey and the adult looking after them.  If Kate's still alive, it would likely be Kate and Philip.

Right. But why didn't Toby call the adult who is driving them there and he called Jack? Also Toby looked really sad which I can't justify it by only being divorced like 8-9 years earlier. Something else makes him that sad.

Also there is no Miguel and people are assuming he is already dead.

[JKL845]

54 minutes ago, himela said:

 Also Toby looked really sad which I can't justify it by only being divorced like 8-9 years earlier. Something else makes him that sad.

 

I think it's because Rebecca is dying. Everyone is there to say goodbye to Rebecca. 

[himela]

Just now, JKL845 said:

I think it's because Rebecca is dying. Everyone is there to say goodbye to Rebecca. 

Toby seemed sadder than Randall. Anyway we'll see.

[JKL845]

2 minutes ago, himela said:

Toby seemed sadder than Randall. Anyway we'll see.

Randall has Beth and his adult children. Randall has probably been around Rebecca a lot and maybe has come to terms with it being the end. Toby probably hasn't been around her or the family much. Everyone seems sad to me in those scenes, though. 

[debraran]

Sterling said she is close to death in that scene so I guess they have her die then but it seems pretty planned. It's everyone's last goodbye. I thought maybe it was a birthday with the pin the tail (remember that?) and chalk but she seems so unaware, I was confused. I  assume they filmed this whole scene back 2 years ago from what they have said in interviews and they continue in the future with Jack Jr etc later. I hope it's a few episodes before the end, so the future scenes can be done without so many time periods.

[himela]

4 hours ago, JKL845 said:

Randall has Beth and his adult children. Randall has probably been around Rebecca a lot and maybe has come to terms with it being the end. Toby probably hasn't been around her or the family much. Everyone seems sad to me in those scenes, though. 

So I'm kinda obsessing with this now so I rewatched all the flashforward scenes and Toby was REALLY sad when Randall called him, I mean before he even knew what Randall had to say. He was not "omg I've ended up alone" sad but "omg someone died" sad or this is what they made him look like so we assume Kate is dead.

 

[debraran]

24 minutes ago, himela said:

So I'm kinda obsessing with this now so I rewatched all the flashforward scenes and Toby was REALLY sad when Randall called him, I mean before he even knew what Randall had to say. He was not "omg I've ended up alone" sad but "omg someone died" sad or this is what they made him look like so we assume Kate is dead.

 

I remember watching this and then when he sees Kate he tells her she looks beautiful which takes away from the speech a bit. I feel bad saying it but I really don't want to see their wedding, if it's Kate and boss. Why? I keep hoping it's a fake out or double wedding or something. I don't see the build up to it, we've seen weddings we've seen almost weddings, they are a bit boring. Why she would have such a big thing too for a second wedding is up to each person but it seems much more than her and Toby. Also the kids are hidden somewhere, I guess not in the bedrooms shown but will be cute. Just seems sad for Kate's kids but maybe it will all come together. I still don't see any sign Kevin is with Madison and from what Hartley says, that was more of a "lets have fans discuss" moment to keep interest up.

[himela]

38 minutes ago, debraran said:

I keep hoping it's a fake out or double wedding or something

It can't be because when Kevin sees Philip in the hallway he asks him if he can make British jokes and he replies that he can do that to his future brother in law.

[debraran]

9 minutes ago, himela said:

It can't be because when Kevin sees Philip in the hallway he asks him if he can make British jokes and he replies that he can do that to his future brother in law.

True, I meant maybe something else with it. I just can't see with all the plots why Kate getting married to him is a big deal? We have nothing invested in him, it means a divorce, it means kids are hopefully seeing Toby and living with Kate. I guess being in England is a big deal, but having Kate remarry was kind of a downer.

[chocolatine]

Regarding Toby being sadder than everyone else, we know that he has depression. He's currently managing it pretty well with medication and exercise, but that could change in the future, as antidepressants often lose their effectiveness over time. 

[PRgal]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Regarding Toby being sadder than everyone else, we know that he has depression. He's currently managing it pretty well with medication and exercise, but that could change in the future, as antidepressants often lose their effectiveness over time. 

Or he might not be taking his meds.  

[himela]

We always assume that Kate will be the one to leave Toby. What if though Toby meets another woman when he is away from home and this is the reason they get a divorce? Then sad Kate finds comfort in mean jerk's arms while Toby becomes the weekend dad feeling guilty for ruining his family. How about that? 🤪

[Pallas]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:43 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

Kate is going to show up with Jack, Hailey and possibly Philip.  I feel like the writers knew this back in Season 3, they just decided not to show it yet. 

Agreed: from year 1, Dan Fogelman has said that Kate is based on his sister Deborah. I don't think that killing off his sister is the message that he wants to send -- not to her, about her or about himself -- across the world and forever streamed. I think we didn't see Kate in the first flash-forward for story purposes (saving the Philip reveal, for one) and so as not to confine the character to how Chrissy Metz looked at that time, four years before they'd be taping the finale 

[himela]

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

 I don't think that killing off his sister is the message that he wants to send

What is the message he doesn't want to send? That obese people die young? Nobody said Kate dies because of her weight. She could have a car accident for instance. But I guess yet again "it's always about the weight".

[Rootbeer]

On 1/30/2022 at 5:09 PM, himela said:

We always assume that Kate will be the one to leave Toby. What if though Toby meets another woman when he is away from home and this is the reason they get a divorce? Then sad Kate finds comfort in mean jerk's arms while Toby becomes the weekend dad feeling guilty for ruining his family. How about that? 🤪

But how does the story of the Big Green Egg and Jack getting injured being the moment that the marriage ended connect to that?  I guess Toby and Kate could be arguing about his infidelity, not paying attention and that's why the accident happened, but it seems like the show wants to make a point about Kate not being happy with Toby's parenting skills as somehow being involved in the breakup.  Maybe they're trying to misdirect us, but I personally think the show will make it Kate who is the catalyst for the divorce.  Not that she will cheat with the jerk, but that she will decide she is done with Toby, maybe at least in part because she is attracted to mean jerk and partly because Toby doesn't parent his children the way Kate wants.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Rootbeer

[himela]

3 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

But how does the story of the Big Green Egg and Jack getting injured being the moment that the marriage ended connect to that?  I guess Toby and Kate could be arguing about his infidelity, not paying attention and that's why the accident happened

Maybe Toby is looking at his phone sending a message to his affair partner while he has to watch the kids and then Jake gets burnt and this is how Kate finds out.

Maybe WE should write this show!

[PRgal]

Is tonight’s episode new?  I’m confused.  I thought they were on hiatus until after the Olympics 

[chocolatine]

53 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Is tonight’s episode new?  I’m confused.  I thought they were on hiatus until after the Olympics 

Tonight's episode is supposed to be new, last one before the hiatus.

[chitowngirl]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Is tonight’s episode new?  I’m confused.  I thought they were on hiatus until after the Olympics 

Olympics start Friday

[SunnyBeBe]

There is literally nothing I’d like to see less that another focus story on Deja and her boyfriend.  It’s so disappointing.  

[debraran]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

There is literally nothing I’d like to see less that another focus story on Deja and her boyfriend.  It’s so disappointing.  

I might be wrong but I think the sudden attention they are giving Deja and Malik versus Randall’s other children is the cause of a possible spinoff with them being one of the main characters

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, debraran said:

I might be wrong but I think the sudden attention they are giving Deja and Malik versus Randall’s other children is the cause of a possible spinoff with them being one of the main characters

Well, that’s an easy no….for me, anyway.  

[chocolatine]

On 1/28/2022 at 3:39 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

The show could do that, but why.  It's far easier to not film future Kate.  Also, the backlash would be catastrophic.   No network or showrunner wants to be that guy.  

Hannah Zeile, the actress who plays Teen Kate, was wearing padding and facial prosthetics on tonight's episode. It looked very obvious, but I don't think there's going to be catastrophic backlash. It's just the tricks TV shows have to play if they want to tell a certain story.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Hannah Zeile, the actress who plays Teen Kate, was wearing padding and facial prosthetics on tonight's episode. It looked very obvious, but I don't think there's going to be catastrophic backlash. It's just the tricks TV shows have to play if they want to tell a certain story.

This comparison doesn't work.  Using prosthetics and padding on an already straight-sized actress is leagues different than making an actress who dramatically lost hundreds of pounds wear a fat suit to get her to her old size.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Are they really planning on giving Deja and Malik their own show?  Do they not realize that viewers aren’t into them as a couple?  Don’t they consider fan reaction?  I’m confused.  I suppose the only thing I like about them is that there’s less of Jack on the screen.  

[Pallas]

On 2/1/2022 at 10:40 AM, himela said:

What is the message he doesn't want to send?

That he based a character on his sister, and rubbed her out. 

[himela]

Just now, Pallas said:

That he based a character on his sister, and rubbed her out. 

I don't see anything bad in him wanting to make a story where Kate dies.

[JKL845]

I didn't see last season. Can anyone tell me if Rebecca did that clinical trial? Or was that whole Randall and Kevin fight over nothing?

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, JKL845 said:

I didn't see last season. Can anyone tell me if Rebecca did that clinical trial? Or was that whole Randall and Kevin fight over nothing?

She did not. When the show decided to include Covid in their universe, the clinical trial did not happen.  Rebecca and Miguel have stayed in SoCal with their latest grandbabies.   

[Kirkydee]

My left field speculation-

After Kate feels a little guilty for telling Rebecca that she can't babysit anymore, she allows Rebecca to watch the kids for a brief moment.  In that moment Jack will burn himself of that Egg grill, causing Toby to yell at Kate-telling her ' I thought we were in agreement she was NOT to watch the kids, not even for a second'   This directly won't lead to a break up but causes great strain on the marriage

[Scarlett45]

7 hours ago, Kirkydee said:

My left field speculation-

After Kate feels a little guilty for telling Rebecca that she can't babysit anymore, she allows Rebecca to watch the kids for a brief moment.  In that moment Jack will burn himself of that Egg grill, causing Toby to yell at Kate-telling her ' I thought we were in agreement she was NOT to watch the kids, not even for a second'   This directly won't lead to a break up but causes great strain on the marriage

That is a possiblity.

[kassandra8286]

Thanks for posting that video, @himela. I hadn't re-watched those flash forwards in ages. 

Kevin's son tells Randall his dad went to get take out because he realized there wasn't any food in the house, prompting Randall to mutter "classic Kevin". That makes it sound like there is no wife or live-in girlfriend in the picture. Unless she's just a bad hostess, lol. But then in the scene with Rebecca, Kevin is definitely (and obviously) wearing a wedding ring. And there are also those woman's clothes in the closet of his hotel room when he's practicing his best man speech. That was 5 years prior though, still time for things not to work out. The wedding ring, though ...

Kind of tired of the writers being cute with their misdirections and teases. I'm glad this speculation will all finally be laid to rest in a few months..

[OlderThanDirt]

If the Big Green Egg is the catalyst for the marriage break up and injury to the blind toddler, who gets custody of the BGE and keeps it to pass on to Jack? As a divorced mom of teenagers at the time of the divorce, I would have gotten rid of an item with that history so fast, especially since it seemed to have high resale value.  I do agree with previous comments that the BGE was an out of line plot device purchase given their family situation. 

[chocolatine]

16 hours ago, kassandra8286 said:

Kevin's son tells Randall his dad went to get take out because he realized there wasn't any food in the house, prompting Randall to mutter "classic Kevin". That makes it sound like there is no wife or live-in girlfriend in the picture. Unless she's just a bad hostess, lol.

Since it was a death bed vigil, it was likely short notice, so not enough time (or energy) to shop and cook for 15 people. Nothing wrong with picking up some pizzas and salads in that kind of situation.

[debraran]

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Since it was a death bed vigil, it was likely short notice, so not enough time (or energy) to shop and cook for 15 people. Nothing wrong with picking up some pizzas and salads in that kind of situation.

Yes, and no one knows where anyone is or their job. Nicky's wife is still working but made it but could have been flying. Sophie is a nurse but filmed in older makeup so might be there or coming. (they always meet at funerals) I know with many illness's there are false alarms with dying but this is TV so I'm sure she will pass then. My friend was called home from Hospice at her house 3 times saying it was close over a few weeks and her mom didn't pass. Nothing in dying or science is concrete although signs are usually there.

Why the chalk and pin the tail when she is near death, IDK, I had thought earlier in was their birthday or something like that.

Edited February 4, 2022 by debraran

[Pallas]

54 minutes ago, debraran said:

Why the chalk and pin the tail when she is near death,

She likely asked for it before passing into a coma; the scene may be taking place on or near the Big Three's (and Jack's) birthday: full circle for the series. Many people near death -- with or without dementia -- are also near childhood. When they ask to go home, it is often their childhood home that they're envisioning. 

[debraran]

27 minutes ago, Pallas said:

She likely asked for it before passing into a coma; the scene may be taking place on or near the Big Three's (and Jack's) birthday: full circle for the series. Many people near death -- with or without dementia -- are also near childhood. When they ask to go home, it is often their childhood home that they're envisioning. 

Maybe but not in a coma now, she seemed aware someone was in the room and they must think she could hear. Maybe that's how she dies, slipping away.

[SunnyBeBe]

I am curious as to how much they’ll reveal about Rebecca.  Tv shows have a tendency to assign a character dementia, but continue to write the character as if they still have insight, normal  emotions and executive judgment.  They could get expert advice, but often just write it the way they want it.  I find it frustrating.  After watching my cousin decline with dementia until her death, I’m pretty sensitive in how people who have dementia are portrayed in fiction.  

Edited February 4, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I am curious as to how much they’ll reveal about Rebecca.  Tv shows have a tendency to assign a character dementia, but continue to write the character as if they still have insight, normal  emotions and executive judgment.  They could get expert advice, but often just write it the way they want it.  I find it frustrating.  After watching my cousin decline with dementia until her death, I’m pretty sensitive in how people who have dementia are portrayed in fiction.  

I agree with you. Dementia is very common, especially as our population ages, but it’s rarely depicted in fiction at all, much less well. 

[qtpye]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:28 AM, debraran said:

Sterling said she is close to death in that scene so I guess they have her die then but it seems pretty planned. It's everyone's last goodbye. I thought maybe it was a birthday with the pin the tail (remember that?) and chalk but she seems so unaware, I was confused. I  assume they filmed this whole scene back 2 years ago from what they have said in interviews and they continue in the future with Jack Jr etc later. I hope it's a few episodes before the end, so the future scenes can be done without so many time periods.

My speculation is that they will pull a Titanic. Rebecca will die and then we will see young (or younger) Rebecca walking into the arms of a waiting Jack.

I hope they do not do this but it is in line with the tearjerker type of thing the show does well.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, qtpye said:

My speculation is that they will pull a Titanic. Rebecca will die and then we will see young (or younger) Rebecca walking into the arms of a waiting Jack.

I hope they do not do this but it is in line with the tearjerker type of thing the show does well.

There is a 0% chance Milo is not in the finale.  So we are either getting one finale flashback or the Titanic ending.