S04.E23: Schism

[AyChihuahua]

9 minutes ago, lion10 said:

Regarding "The Flash", why isn't anyone excited that they're doing "Flashpoint Paradox"?  Barry's always been an idiot, but the potential changes are amazing.

Because contracts, sets, logistics, time, actor availability, budget, etc., makes it effectively impossible to do. They couldn't even get The Flash cast to Laurel's funeral, even though they "loved her." Couldn't match up Oliver Sah-Him's visit to CC last season in any remotely non-insane way. Couldn't get Barry to zip down to SC to visit his good friend Felicity after she was paralyzed, even though he could get there in less time than it takes regular people to pee.

Comics can do things that tv shows, especially relatively low-budget CW tv shows, simply cannot do. The consensus here is that what happens on Flash will mostly, if not entirely, stay on Flash. Maybe with some spillover to LoT, but not really to Arrow. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[lemotomato]

6 minutes ago, lion10 said:

Regarding "The Flash", why isn't anyone excited that they're doing "Flashpoint Paradox"?  Barry's always been an idiot, but the potential changes are amazing.

Are you asking why anyone from this forum isn't excited? I don't speak for anyone else, but in summary: I don't read the comics, I don't particularly like Barry, and I hate time travel. That's why I watch Arrow and not Flash.

[Actionmage]

Quote

Felicity, who just nuked tens of thousands of people because she couldn't hack fast enough.  She's been the light motif for Oliver and she should have been the one who really had the problem recognizing the darkness within her and stepping back to deal with it.

Not a knock on you, but I wouldn't characterize Felicity as having to recognize "the darkness within her". She was faced with an impossible decision and made the best call she thought she could. Tens of thousands instead of millions. That isn't darkness.  I would argue about Lyla's decision to send agents after Darhk in his power center, but then, I put that on the writers. 

Lyla refusing to acknowledge that Oliver could possibly be correct in that situation means that she has to face the families of those agents. Agents that had no reason to die, but the writers insisted that was a beat-- Damien killing agents off-screen, audibly and in front of his tween daughter-- that needed to be aired. (Because we didn't understand that DD was a Bad Guy?)  Yet, Felicity choosing a rock or a hard place is supposed to deal with "darkness"? Lyla will deal with a fatal decision and so will Felicity. Oliver could be amazing if written as a good sounding board for both women. The scenes would be coming from different POVs as well. Lyla the soldier, now the commander and getting through why she insisted on sending her agents. Felicity working through having to decide in seconds where to put the most horrible thing on the planet. 

That probably is why the fight with Damien felt so anti-climactic. They faced down 15k+ nuclear missiles. A BSC ninja-mage assassin in a snappy suit and good patter was supposed to worry us after that?

The Flarrowverse seems really, really, really enamored of the Binary Choice: Give me your powers or I will kill someone. You can only be a killer or a "normal" person.  There is more to Oliver, and all the characters really, but there seems to be an obsession with labeling. I think instead of "schism" the word should have been "balance" or "equililbrium". Everyone has Light/Dark, but it's how we balance it that determines what we are on a given day. That's why redemption is a possibility. Not for everyone ( see: Andy), but until the door is closed completely.

Sorry; it was a long way to say that I cannot label Felicity's choice as "Darkness" when there have been so many much darker acts just this season. Also, Malcolm Merlyn is alive and untroubled.

eta: It is on the writers that they lean so heavily on the darkness/light duality, not the poster I quoted.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Actionmage
I now feel a need to check my flashlights.

[Genki]

32 minutes ago, lion10 said:

Regarding "The Flash", why isn't anyone excited that they're doing "Flashpoint Paradox"?  Barry's always been an idiot, but the potential changes are amazing.

For myself, I fear any potential changes they could do; Arrow S4 was an improvement on S3 and has left me hopeful for S5. While some of the slog to get there was hard (BMD, Olicity break-up, Laurel's canonisation), I happy at the place each character has been left in. If "Flashpoint Paradox" undid all that, especially Laurel's death, I would be super annoyed.

Also I'm not a comic reader and therefore, while I enjoy occasional easter eggs and nods to comic cannon, I do not need to see set-up to purely get to an iconic comic moment, doing that only seems to lead to BvS levels of terribad.

As for the episode not the best season finale, but it didn't have to redeem as much as say 3.23. So I'm satisfied the show is heading in the right direction, would I have preferred more between Oliver & Felicity? Hell yes!, But I loved the last scene.

[Guest]

I'm mostly okay with where the characters are now. I think you can see a fairly clear arc for most of them throughout the season.

Thea started out loving the adrenaline rush of being Speedy/on Team Arrow and slowly fizzled the more toxic her relationship with her father became. I like that she decided to take some time out to decide for herself. Diggle's arc went from being someone with a very black and white view of things, very moral, to someone who had to kill his own brother. Now he needs to absolve himself or have time to grieve. Guess the army does that for him. Oliver started out afraid of accepting the darkness inside him and learning that he can be the light (ugh, please no more talk of the light in s5) but that it's okay to be dark too. Sometimes the dark is necessary.

But what about Felicity's arc? I'm not sure where she began or ended tbh. She was paralyzed and had an episode to have a freakout about that/doubts about her place on the team and then she was fine. She started out with the board doubting her position as CEO but was actually right in keeping Curtis on at PT, and yet now she's fired. She had to drop a nuke on a town which saved millions but there was no sign that she was affected by it. 

Seriously though. If this was Felicity and Friends, I'd know more about Felicity's arc and POV and yet I'm sitting here with no clue where she's going next or how she's feeling. Why do they keep doing this?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[lion10]

I think including nuclear weapons was a bad idea.  You can't punch that away and it's just so huge that a nuclear holocaust can't be topped.  I would really like to know what was going on in the Arrow writers' room because they made some bad decisions this season.  Not giving Damien a reason for wanting to kill the world, needless Olicity drama in Oliver not telling Felicity about William and the resulting fallout bullshit, fridging Laurel, using nukes, Oliver not telling Barry to get his ass over to Star City help avert the end of the world, and the needless third time rehash about light and darkness in Oliver and all that.  Seriously I think every single season we've had the theme of Oliver's "darkness" being a plot point.  Who cares at this point?  It's not like he was running around murdering innocents, even in Season one the only people he was taking out were proven crooked oligarchs that would be able to lawyer their way out of any accusation they faced.

[apinknightmare]

Nukes are an especially bad idea to try to pull off with a villain who can do magic. I realize that having a guy who can do magic threatening the city with magical stuff against a crew of non-superpowered people makes things pretty anti-climactic, since they'd have to stop him before his plan was ever enacted, so there'd be no imminent threat. Because, I mean, what kind of long-term planning does whipping up a magical...IDK, flood or something take? 

So. Nukes and magic. Dumb ideas. 

[Cthulhudrew]

On 5/25/2016 at 6:06 PM, Jediknight said:

That was mighty nice of Dark's soldiers to just run at the crowd, instead of using their machine guns.  Who knew they had that amount of compassion, and belief in a fair fight?

They must have been the same guys Brick recruited for his gang last season, because those idiots did the same thing against the good people of Star City then, too.

On 5/25/2016 at 6:06 PM, AyChihuahua said:

Where's the creepy kid go now? 

Maybe they left her there, and she'll return in a couple of seasons seeking revenge for abandonment.

[Cthulhudrew]

22 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

I laughed when Felicity said something like, "we only have 45 minutes [to stop the bombs]" and then the scene immediately cut to a flashback, which at this point only takes unnecessary time away from the main action in a 45 minute episode. That was some amusing editing. 

What I thought was even funnier was that the missiles launched and they were all "We've only got two hours until the end of the world!"

And then they immediately undercut the tension of that moment with the revelation that one missile is headed for Star City and now they've only got 45 minutes!

I thought maybe they were going to keep one-upping the countdown somehow.

[lemotomato]

I'm a little late, but @tangerine95, you just saved me from typing up my own review because I totally agree with all the points you made, even about the comparison to the season 3 finale. And especially about how Olicity ending was unsatisfactory considering how much time they spent this season building up its importance.

[KirkB]

23 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

That was mighty nice of Dark's soldiers to just run at the crowd, instead of using their machine guns.  Who knew they had that amount of compassion, and belief in a fair fight?

Heh. I kind of like the idea that Dark gave them guns, but not bullets. Just because.

Dark's lack of motivation for wanting to kill the world doesn't really bother me because it's Comic Book Villain 101, and I know this show loves that. Though someone up thread mentioned he's pissed because he got passed over as Ra's. The thought of him being a petulant teenager with magic having a temper tantrum amuses me. Honestly, Dark would have been a joke if not for NM.

[AudienceofOne]

Wow, that was cheesy. That was a cheese sandwich topped with cheese and served with a side of cheese.

But aside from the "hope" and "darkness" anvils, I actually really liked it. I particularly liked the fact they took some time at the end to canvas the characters and show some fallout from the season. And I liked that Oliver showed the city hope as Oliver, however cheesy that scene was. (Did I mention the cheese?). And Curtis was great. His optimism and enthusiasm is better used this way than the manic bouncing around they had him do earlier this season.

Small niggles - I'm really pissed that Merlyn is still alive. I was hoping that Thea would pull a Octavia and randomly kill him at the end. The fact he repeatedly gets away with this shit is really frustrating. And Oliver's "we should have stayed and none of this would have happened" speech annoyed me as much as it did last time. Would Laurel still be alive if he hadn't have come back? Ah, no, she would have been dead sooner.

Overall, I thought this was a surprisingly good finale. But its competitors were all duds so it could be it's faring well in comparison.

[arjumand]

16 hours ago, AyChihuahua said:

 I liked the opening action scene in the lair but I thought the rest of the fights were boring, esp the final Oliver/DD fight. Like hey, here's a thought, after you punch, maybe, I don't know, punch again? Like, really fast? Instead of politely waiting for him to punch you and only then taking your turn again to punch him? Just a thought?

 

The worst part of that fight was one bit, where Darhk was like posing in profile, legs apart, action!pose while Oliver was in front of him on one knee, at a perfect angle for the nut shot to end all nut shots. Ok, fine, so this isn't Deadpool, but come on. You can't tell me that the Green Arrow fights by Queensberry rules.

 

11 hours ago, lion10 said:

Regarding "The Flash", why isn't anyone excited that they're doing "Flashpoint Paradox"?  Barry's always been an idiot, but the potential changes are amazing.

No they aren't. And anyway, not everyone enjoyed Flashpoint Paradox. Also, the discussion is in the other shows thread.

[statsgirl]

Of course the whole nuclear missle hacking is impossible.    The U.S. uses 8 inch floppies (the big ones) to run their program on code that was written in the '50s.  It's not even connected to anything wireless.

Why wasn't Felicity at the swearing -in ceremony? She's  no longer his fiance but as a friend, wouldn't she want to be there?  Come to think of it, why wasn't Thea, Oliver's sister, and Diggle there too?

Speaking of Olicity, or lack thereof, I've had the feeling that ever since Laurel died, SA has stopped trying to sell Olicity.  'No more ship competition, Olicity is canon, let's move on.'  He seemed more interested in Felicity in s1 than he does now.

18 hours ago, Actionmage said:

Lyla refusing to acknowledge that Oliver could possibly be correct in that situation means that she has to face the families of those agents. Agents that had no reason to die, but the writers insisted that was a beat-- Damien killing agents off-screen, audibly and in front of his tween daughter-- that needed to be aired. (Because we didn't understand that DD was a Bad Guy?)  Yet, Felicity choosing a rock or a hard place is supposed to deal with "darkness"? Lyla will deal with a fatal decision and so will Felicity. Oliver could be amazing if written as a good sounding board for both women. The scenes would be coming from different POVs as well. Lyla the soldier, now the commander and getting through why she insisted on sending her agents. Felicity working through having to decide in seconds where to put the most horrible thing on the planet.

As I said earlier, I would really love a scene where Lyla and Felicity talk about the outcomes of choices they've made. I'd find that more interesting than all the Laurel/Thea bonding this season.  (They really need to come up with something Thea to do that isn't about Malcolm's storyline or Laurel's storyline or someone who Oliver has to rescue.)

I liked the scene in the crossover last season where Lyla and Oliver discussed how their partners (Diggle and Barry) don't see things the same way they do and compared being by Waller.  Lyla should feel bad about those agents and she probably will but not as bad as someone else might because she was always the one to say "that's war and there are casualties that happen."  She even took John killing Andy in cold blood in her stride because you gotta do what you gotta do.

I still think that Felicity would blame herself to some extent. She was between a rock and a hard place at the end, but I can see her thinking that if she had hacked just a bit faster, if she could have got to the component at PT instead of having to clone it and getting only 90%, if she hadn't been so fast to dismiss meeting with the Board, maybe she could have stopped that final missile too.  Realistically she probably couldn't but when has this show allowed realism  when there was a chance for Oliver, Diggle or Felicity to beat themselves up over something they think they could have helped?

18 hours ago, lion10 said:

Regarding "The Flash", why isn't anyone excited that they're doing "Flashpoint Paradox"?  Barry's always been an idiot, but the potential changes are amazing.

Because I honest-to-god don't care about the people on The Flash any more and consequently don't care what happens on that show.  Barry has the emotional depth of a 10 year old boy, they ruined Cisco for me by making him a Gary Stu, and not only are there too few women on the show, the only important relationships are between men (Joe/Barry, Joe/Wally, Barry/Wells, Barry/his bio dad, Cisco and his bros),. Outside of CBS and their #TooFemale shows, I've never seen a show that cared so little about female characters.

As AES13 said on the previous page

19 hours ago, AES13 said:

PS Given the show's inability to write a coherent plot, entertaining dialogue, cast properly, create consistently good stunts, and properly edit it all together, they should be thanking their stars for Emily Bett Rickards and Stephen Amell.  I would have dumped this show faster than Blindspot if their performances and chemistry hadn't kept me here.  

[Guest]

I've tried rewatching this episode twice now and both times gave up because I just couldn't be bothered. Shows you how underwhelming it really is, not just as finale but as an episode.

[lemotomato]

I watched it once so I could live tweet and contribute to the trend, but it's definitely one of the handful of season 4 episodes I'm never going to watch again.

Edited May 27, 2016 by lemotomato

[Guest]

I liked the end montage which set up all the characters on their different paths (well, except Felicity...not sure what the hell she's gonna do or why she's even staying in SC) but it's definitely not an episode I'll watch again.

I tried but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited May 27, 2016 by Guest

[Hook75]

Bad finale for a bad season. Magic ruined everything.

[lion10]

22 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I liked the end montage which set up all the characters on their different paths (well, except Felicity...not sure what the hell she's gonna do or why she's even staying in SC) but it's definitely not an episode I'll watch again.

I tried but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Imo, Season 2 finale was the best one in the series so far.   

[Password]

Season 1 for me. 

[kieyra]

The only thing worse than Malcolm Merlyn is Vandal Savage.

MM could go be the bad guy on LoT and it would improve two shows at once. 

[Morrigan2575]

moving to Target Pracrice Thread.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

I finally got to watch the episode after getting home last night and it's sort of a mixed bag. Basically, I'm happy because I'm more or less satisfied with character emotional beats which are the main draw for me. I fully support Thea backing away from the team as I have said after the previous episode she's really not emotionally fit to be on it right now. Girl is not someone to have in the foxhole at this junction. I didn't see Dig reenlisting but it makes sense. He's adrift and the army centered him previously, so I get why he would go back to it to find himself again. I loved his confession to Lyla and her reaction to it. It was so very, very true to her. While on the subject of Lyla, I want regular Team Arrow/ARGUS joint operations. Something about seeing her and Oliver being either in synch or on the opposing sides like this episodes just rings real. I want that delved into.

Felicity has gone through massive piles of shit this year, but I realized this episode that it really was her year, what with her mother being there, her father showing up and having three villains connected directly to her. And bless her for pointing out that collaborating with Darhk to save her mother doesn't save her mother at all. Plus she was just adorable during the final moments in the lair with the team. My mama and up top. Hee. All that plus saving the world.

When I saw on Twitter that Oliver was interim mayor, I imagined the election would be held off until the next season, giving the writers the option to play with him in that role for a while and then have someone else elected. I get all the logistical problems of him in public office, but it's so effing emotionally satisfying to see him step out and show how much he cares about that cesspool he calls home. I loved his happy, glowy face when he took the oath, yet was simultaneously nostalgic because when he announced he was running his support system was all there, yet now he was alone. Insert sadface. 

I find the way the season ended with him and Felicity puzzling due to the fact to how it started. It's not a bad place at all in my book, I just really expected more of a connection to the pilot, although the biggest one may be them in the broken down lair which they will obviously rebuild together. The Ivy Town house was picture perfect, but this is their home and it's really the house that built them. So now they will build it truly together for the first time.

Finally, my biggest letdown is Darhk. They really messed the landing with him. In the end, I don't know anything more about him than I did in the premiere. I still don't get his motivation for global nuclear destruction. In this episode it was painted as it was connected to his desparation over losing his wife but it was very much not an impulsive thing, in fact, from what I've read about his appearance on LOT, he's been planning it for literal decades. McDonough really elevated the material - in fact, my favorite moment of his here was him unbuttoning his suit jacket before throwing down with Oliver, I suspect that was all him - but there needed to be a lot more meat on those bones. 

While I very much appreciate the city rallying behind both Oliver and GA, and fighting for themselves, I liked the mass fight way better in S2. Nice choice to have the ark guy lead the charge, though. I didn't even realize it was him until this morning.

Other small things - it looks like they changed Sara again or maybe that bike ride really aged her. I was kind of snickering about how Oliver's next career should be motivational speaker and then Quention showed up with, That Oliver Queen guy really know how to give a speech. I might have been emotionally compromised. Between that and Dig pointing out how Oliver was the one keeping him in check recently, I truly felt the show demonstrated appreciation for Oliver's growth. The flashbacks were super funny, not least because Oliver killed brother and sister in the same manner. At the same time, Amanda screws up again. She loses the dangerous idol that was in her custody, then apparently tells no one about it and doesn't really go after Darhk from what we have seen. Oh, Amanda. Will we see her continue to make bad choices in season 5 flashbacks?

[kismet]

I don’t quite know where to really put this because it sort of branches so many different threads, but the inspiration was reignited by this episode. And in some ways it does feel a little schismatic for me when I think about Arrow & FS.

After seeing FS hold that police stick, as well as the final scene with her being in the black “shit is hitting the fan” pants mode, I can’t help by want and wonder if they will give her training and let her actually be in the field. I know that she is awesome behind the desk and on the comms. I know that her brain is her biggest asset & superpower. I know it is important to show all sides of herodom. I know that it is important to balance masks v. non-masks. I also know how strongly people feel about FS here. So I’m not trying to change any opinions, I’m just trying to express what I wish could happen some times.

But gosh darnit, if seeing her hold that stick or watching some of EBR’s BTS strength & training doesn’t make me wish that FS was more of an in the field fighter. I think EBR would be AMAZING in a more physical role, even if it was just part-time. Because as much as I love the unique and indispensable skills she brings to the team, I really miss a quality in the field female fighters. And I would love to see one on Arrow. LL/BC was horrible.TQ just doesn’t make an impact for me. And I loved SL, but appreciate her better on her own show. All things considered at times she overtook s2. But imagine FS’s brains with some kickass fight skills, and EBR/SA chemistry in the field – it would be gold.

I love strong female fighters (Nikita, Sydney Bristow, Sara Walker, etc). I know that FS is strong in her own ways. But I can’t help but wonder what could have been on ARROW, if they had got the casting of BC right. Could they have given us an actual fighting duo that I would have wanted to see? Perhaps next season they can just do more hybrid missions and that will suffice. Because let’s face it every mission that FS has participated in in the field has been deeply entertaining and authentic to her role. So it is possible to put her in the field and not lose FS.

I don’t know I just see that last scene of them in the bunker, taking over the reins for TA and wonder what will happen over the break. Because OQ will need back-up at some point, so forgive me for getting some interesting ideas about just who could be his possible back-up and how exciting a development that might be.We all know FS can take of herself, I just wish we would get an opportunity to see it more.

[Mellowyellow]

@kismet I soooo agree with you but I am a bit worried that she won't be as special anymore once she gets bad@ss fighting skills. I am REALLY torn about this! On one hand I LOVE her action scenes but then after watching Vampire Diaries and Originals I felt like things went flat the moment the londstanding human character turned into a Vampire. I preferred them as humans! Mind you this is not a Vampire situation...........

I do love the fact that our darling Felicity took down Slade (s2) AND saved Oliver (s3). 

[TrueMyth]

I do like that they had nods to Felicity training in self-defense during season one and two, but I adore that she is a strong female character without taking on the masculine traits of aggressive fighting.  Now I would dearly love to see some more episodes where Felicity must MacGyver her way out of a situation or use long-term defensive strategies.  The Die Hard moments in Beacon of Hope were okay, but lacked something because of how silly that whole episode was.

I'd also adore a training scene between Felicity and Oliver, especially in their current state of sexual tension.

[Password]

2 hours ago, TrueMyth said:

I'd also adore a training scene between Felicity and Oliver, especially in their current state of sexual tension.

It'll probably happen during the hiatus.

[Thundercatmary]

I'd love to see EBR's physicality on the show like training etc but personally I don't want to see her in the field, at least not more than just once and awhile. I agree I like Felicity how she is and how it sets her apart.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I'd love to see Felicity train, at least a bit because it makes sense to show she has some training given their line of work. I'd also like her in the field more in missions where her skills are needed (like in S1 at Merlyn Global or in S4 when they rescued Ray) and I love when she saves herself even not being a skilled fighter. She took down Cooper, The Bee Man, some ghosts, a LoA guy and she stabbed Deathstroke with the siringe. That was all pretty cool.

I think EBR could pull off a more physical role too because she is athletic, coordinated, but if they took it too far than we would lose what makes Felicity special IMO. So the idea of Felicity being a more skilled fighter and having a bigger role in the field is definitely tempting for me because Willa isn't really selling the role of the badass fighter for me and KC never did but I'd still pass and take her showing off her unique skills more over that.

[dtissagirl]

I want to see Felicity in about 5000% more stunt/action scenes, but I don't have any interest in watching Felicity in any fight scenes whatsoever.

[bijoux]

@dtissagirl, that is the best way to describe my feelings on the subject as well.

[Thundercatmary]

I forget what episode, bit the one where Oliver is rescuing felicity/thea/dig from DD and that gas chamber, that one scene of EBR in the red dress hitting the guy with a pipe, she's just got great physical presence and that scene showcases it well imo.

But I agree more stunts than getting in there fighting, but honestly they really need to show her learning some sort of self defense.

[tv echo]

Felicity doesn't have to become a martial artist, but yes, she needs more self-defense training.  After all, we'll probably see Curtis becoming Mr. Terrific at some point and he's supposed to be both smart and a good fighter.

[bijoux]

409, Dark Waters.

Edited May 31, 2016 by bijoux
Found gif.

[doesntworkonwood]

I just like to see her hitting people with large objects

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, doesntworkonwood said:

I just like to see her hitting people with large objects

me too. i always find it fun when she finds someway to contribute to tje fight. I LOL when she got a "bonk" in during Schism. In fact I was so entertained that she got another hitting someone on the head move that I didn't realize it was with the Tonfa until someone else pointed it out.

[bijoux]

It's my headcanon that little Felicity was an absolute killer batter on the softball field. So much so that after vocal protests Donna was eventually forced to take her off the team because the other kids were absolutely frightened when they had to pitch at her. Killer hit combined with no doubt junior version of her determined face struck fear in other 8-year-olds.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, yeah, her hitting people with random objects is A+. But imo that fits into stunt/action rather than fight. It's her one move, and it needs to be surprising, it's not anything like hand to hand combat.

Maybe they could make it like Stiles on Teen Wolf and give Felicity an actual baseball bat. She hits way better than him anyway.

Edited May 31, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Morrigan2575]

15 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Oh, yeah, her hitting people with random objects is A+. But imo that fits into stunt/action rather than fight. It's her one move, and it needs to be surprising, it's not anything like hand to hand combat.

Maybe they could make it like Stiles on Teen Wolf and give Felicity an actual baseball bat. She hits way better than him anyway.

replying in Felicity thread

[thegirlsleuth]

I love how good Felicity is at whacking.  It seems reasonable that it is within her skill set.

I do think EBR gets to use some of her physicality when Felicity is awkward or klutzy.  I know that people praised Stephen when he did the one handed champagne catch--and it was impressive--but Emily had to "trip" and "drop" the champagne right into Stephen's hand. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Hope Saves The Day In Arrow

No, literally. That was the secret weapon. Hope.

[Password]

5 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Emily had to "trip" and "drop" the champagne right into Stephen's hand. 

Hmm must investigate this episode, I mean scene for science.

[Mellowyellow]

Bahahaha Oliver gave a cheesy speech while my girl diverted the nuke!!!!! 

I was so indignant when everyone was congratulating him for his speech. Hubby was like "He's the pretty face honey. They always get credit.   She's the nerd, they never get the credit."

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Bahahaha Oliver gave a cheesy speech while my girl diverted the nuke!!!!! 

I was so indignant when everyone was congratulating him for his speech. Hubby was like "He's the pretty face honey. They always get credit.   She's the nerd, they never get the credit."

What did Oliver get credit for other than giving the speech? No one knows he's ultimately the guy who took Darhk out, and I don't recall anyone thinking that his speech had anything to do with the nuke being diverted (although I haven't rewatched the ep, so maybe they did?). Just like no one knows Felicity is the one who took out the nuke, which seems like the way she wants it? She's never given any indication she's in it for recognition or glory-she just wants to help people and seems to be happy doing it behind the scenes, thankless as that job may be.  

[Mellowyellow]

When they went back the team kept saying his speech was good.  I think Dig mentioned it too. I don't think anyone said anything about Curtis and Felicity diverting the nuke.

Ooh when Lance picked him off the ground he mentioned the speech too! 

Edited June 5, 2016 by Mellowyellow

[apinknightmare]

Sorry, I thought you wanted her to get recognition from the general public.

I think the speech was probably mentioned since it was a plot point at the end of the episode, because  Oliver was asked to be interim mayor partly because of it. If it weren't for that, I doubt Lance would've mentioned it. And I thought the team mentioned it because rallying the city's hope was key in defeating Darhk's idiotic magic, and it was more of a, "That speech was great, this is gonna work." 

But I won't argue since the episode isn't fresh in my mind and I don't remember the order of things, and also because I don't really care if any of them get individual recognition, haha. 

[bijoux]

It's really hard for me to begrudge Oliver getting some recognition after giving away his life to the city for years and practically getting nothing but grief. Who was it giving him a thumbs up for the speech, Lance, Dig and Curtis? Like @apinknightmare, my memory of the episode isn't that fresh. Narratively, they all made sense. Oliver's relationship with Lance has been nothing if not turbulent, Dig was struggling and hopeless, and Curtis was the one who sort of spurred Oliver on earlier in the episode. Also, didn't Curtis also praise Felicity on the roof? 

In no way am I trying to diminish Felicity's contribution. Without it, we'd either have no show or have it be a vastly different one come fall. However, Oliver's contribution as Oliver is valid as well. 

[Mellowyellow]

Haha no I just thought it was silly they tried to pimp his cheesy speech so much. 

I dunno, nukes, magical big bad, cheesy speech, hope.....it was all very......cheesy.

I squeed a wee bit when he took the major job and  the dude said he looked conflicted and Oliver "someone very close to me recently told me that I am.....that I am ready for this." So no hug or actual uplifting speech from Felicity like I'm used to (boo) but it made me feel better that she was still floating in his head. 

[Sunshine]

Oliver's speech also inspired all his teammates who had been feeling hopeless too.  I think it was supposed to have energized them to keep up the fight.

[Mellowyellow]

Oooh the shot of them at the end inside the big ring. Someone mentioned it being a possible sign in the other thread.  Does anyone think it is? Or is it a random shot?

Or is it designed to tease us?